The generator I bought for $799 has a Black Friday price of $749. Usual price is about
$1000. Free shipping. It's a Pulsar 12000 watt. Gas or propane.

On 11/25/19 6:40 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
The generator I bought for $799 has a Black Friday price of $749. Usual price is about
$1000. Free shipping. It's a Pulsar 12000 watt. Gas or propane.

Where?

On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:11:03 -0600, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On 11/25/19 6:40 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
The generator I bought for $799 has a Black Friday price of $749. Usual price is about
$1000. Free shipping. It's a Pulsar 12000 watt. Gas or propane.

Where?

Newegg.com

On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:14:56 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:11:03 -0600, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On 11/25/19 6:40 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
The generator I bought for $799 has a Black Friday price of $749. Usual price is about
$1000. Free shipping. It's a Pulsar 12000 watt. Gas or propane.

Where?

Newegg.com



I checked-out their inverter generators - the B&S Q6500
with a 240 volt outlet at $ 1300. US caught my interest !
... then I checked their Canadian site - only the lower model
available P4500 no 240 volt outlet $ 2500. Canadian.
Ugghh.
John T.

In article ,
says...

The generator I bought for $799 has a Black Friday price of $749. Usual price is about
$1000. Free shipping. It's a Pulsar 12000 watt. Gas or propane.



Ebay has several of them for $ 739 and free shipping.

On 11/25/19 7:40 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
The generator I bought for $799 has a Black Friday price of $749. Usual price is about
$1000. Free shipping. It's a Pulsar 12000 watt. Gas or propane.


Not sure about any generator brands other than Honda. I went through
about four generators in the past before the Honda, which I've had for
nearly 20 years now. They cost more, but last significantly longer than
most of the other brands.

On 11/25/2019 11:27 AM, Rory St. Johns wrote:
On 11/25/19 7:40 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
The generator I bought for $799 has a Black Friday price of $749.
Usual price is about
$1000.Â* Free shipping.Â* It's a Pulsar 12000 watt.Â* Gas or propane.


Not sure about any generator brands other than Honda.Â* I went through
about four generators in the past before the Honda, which I've had for
nearly 20 years now.Â* They cost more, but last significantly longer than
most of the other brands.

I've been lucky with my 13 year old Power Boss with Briggs and Stratton
engine and Generac generating part. Has worked reliably but it is
noisy. Honda's I've seen run quietly but are pricey.

I note this Pulsar has electric start and is twice the power of mine.
If I had one like that I would power the whole house. I also note there
are units today that can power the whole house without much attention to
what you are using. Mine has a transfer box and only picks up critical
needs like my well, furnace and refrigerator and freezers.

In article ,
says...

That 5KW disappears pretty fast when you turn on the oven, start up
the dryer or the water heater kicks on, even if the A/C is off.
I ran my house on 5.5kw for 8 days but no dryer, no hot water and
everything was cooked on the gas grille. Fortunately it was warm
enough that we didn't need heat.





Sure the 5 kw is just barely enough. You have to do like the old show
Green Acres did with their electrical supply. Just turn on a few things
at a time. You could cut off most everything but a few lights and run
the water heater to get hot water. Then cut off a lot for the stove, or
just use the microwave.

The cost is another factor. Just looking at a 7.5 kw and running at
half load the company says about 18 gal per 24 hours on gas and 5 hours
on 20 lb of propane. That is going to be around $ 45 per 24 hours of
run time. The inverter type will cut back under light loads, but the
ones without will consume about that much even without much of a load a
load.

My small 3500 kw will run for about $ 25 per day at half power. I can't
run as much ,but can burn a few lights and watch TV and heat some things
in the microwave. If I want more power, I can fire up the 5 kw unit.

People have to realize that this is a temporary emergency situation.
They will not be able to run the whole house unless very rich.

The larger diesel generators seem to be a lot more econimical to run
from what I have heard.

On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 23:44:51 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

That 5KW disappears pretty fast when you turn on the oven, start up
the dryer or the water heater kicks on, even if the A/C is off.
I ran my house on 5.5kw for 8 days but no dryer, no hot water and
everything was cooked on the gas grille. Fortunately it was warm
enough that we didn't need heat.





Sure the 5 kw is just barely enough. You have to do like the old show
Green Acres did with their electrical supply. Just turn on a few things
at a time. You could cut off most everything but a few lights and run
the water heater to get hot water. Then cut off a lot for the stove, or
just use the microwave.


The water heater, all by itself tripped the breaker on the generator
(5500w). Same with the dryer. I can run the oven but that is 97% of
the output.
The A/C acts like a bolted fault.
I was able to run 2 fridges, 2 well pumps, and then either the pool
pump or the mini split in the bedroom so that was my switching. Being
careful we used the general lighting load normally.
I still tripped out occasionally if a couple of things tried to start
at the same time.
I was burning 0.5 GPH gasoline or 0.8 GPH propane with no appreciable
difference in acceptable load. The difference in energy per gallon
just showed up in fuel consumption.

The cost is another factor. Just looking at a 7.5 kw and running at
half load the company says about 18 gal per 24 hours on gas and 5 hours
on 20 lb of propane. That is going to be around $ 45 per 24 hours of
run time. The inverter type will cut back under light loads, but the
ones without will consume about that much even without much of a load a
load.

My small 3500 kw will run for about $ 25 per day at half power. I can't
run as much ,but can burn a few lights and watch TV and heat some things
in the microwave. If I want more power, I can fire up the 5 kw unit.

People have to realize that this is a temporary emergency situation.
They will not be able to run the whole house unless very rich.

The larger diesel generators seem to be a lot more econimical to run
from what I have heard.

Diesels are great if you have a big tank of it on site. If the
stations are closed, you aren't getting diesel either.

In writes:

[snip]

The water heater, all by itself tripped the breaker on the generator
(5500w). Same with the dryer. I can run the oven but that is 97% of
the output.

I take it you've got an electric water heater. It should be
possible to rewire the connections so that instead of 240V it
gets 120V. This will reduce the amperage by half, and with
the similar voltage cutdown, means the watts it pulls will
be only 1/4 of the original number [a].

(Natch, this also means a _lot_ longer to heat up waer
from a, so to speak, cold start)

I did this type of rewiring in areas where the electrical
utility hit the user with "peak demand charges".

Oh, in regards to getting diesel fuel when the gas stations
are closed...

Quite often it's a "ran out of gasoline from the tanks" deal,
but they often (if they stock it, of course) will still
have diesel fuel.

(Natch, this only works if they have electric power
themselves. More and more gas stations are putting
in their own backup generators...)


--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

Ralph Mowery wrote
wrote

That 5KW disappears pretty fast when you turn on the oven,
start up the dryer or the water heater kicks on, even if the A/C
is off. I ran my house on 5.5kw for 8 days but no dryer, no hot
water and everything was cooked on the gas grille. Fortunately
it was warm enough that we didn't need heat.

Sure the 5 kw is just barely enough.

I don't buy that. When I built my very large house on a bare
block of land, I chose to move in as soon as it was physically
possible to stop paying rent on the flat I was renting. The
whole house was wired up completely but I hasn't got
around to doing the meter box and fuse box etc. So I
powered the whole house from the builder's temporary
supply over a long extension cord which could only deliver
2.5KW using a Jesus adapter, plug on each end of the
stub of extension cord. That powered the purely electrical
cooking and hot water and fridge and 2 freezers fine. You
just had ton be careful to only have the big wall oven and
not the grill on at the same time. Microwave was fine with
the oven or grill.

Because I relaxed a bit after moving in, I didn't get around
to doing the meter box and fuse box for a year or so until
the electricity supply operation chucked a tantrum about
the house being powered from the builders temporary
supply and I did the meter box and fuse box and had it
connected properly.

I had the extension cord up in the air from the pole
the builders temporary supply meter box was on
to the eaves of the flat roofed house auto 15' away
with a knot in the extension cord to keep it there.

That knot was a big blob of melted and solidified plastic
when I stopped using it but it was still working fine.

You have to do like the old show Green Acres did with
their electrical supply. Just turn on a few things at a time.

Yep.

You could cut off most everything but a few lights
and run the water heater to get hot water. Then
cut off a lot for the stove, or just use the microwave.

I could run the big wall oven or the grill in it and
the big full sized microwave fine. But not all 3
at once. But I never do that anyway even now.

The cost is another factor. Just looking at a 7.5 kw and running at
half load the company says about 18 gal per 24 hours on gas and 5 hours
on 20 lb of propane. That is going to be around $ 45 per 24 hours of
run time. The inverter type will cut back under light loads, but the
ones without will consume about that much even without much of a load a
load.

My small 3500 kw will run for about $ 25 per day at half power. I can't
run as much ,but can burn a few lights and watch TV and heat some things
in the microwave. If I want more power, I can fire up the 5 kw unit.

People have to realize that this is a temporary emergency situation.
They will not be able to run the whole house unless very rich.

The larger diesel generators seem to be a lot more econimical to run
from what I have heard.

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 17:34:23 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:



I don't buy that. When I built my very large house on a bare
block of land

LOL! Tell us more about that operating system you helped to design, senile
idiot!

--
Senile Rot about himself:
"I was involved in the design of a computer OS"
MID:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 05:51:11 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
wrote:

In writes:

[snip]

The water heater, all by itself tripped the breaker on the generator
(5500w). Same with the dryer. I can run the oven but that is 97% of
the output.

I take it you've got an electric water heater. It should be
possible to rewire the connections so that instead of 240V it
gets 120V. This will reduce the amperage by half, and with
the similar voltage cutdown, means the watts it pulls will
be only 1/4 of the original number [a].

(Natch, this also means a _lot_ longer to heat up waer
from a, so to speak, cold start)

I did this type of rewiring in areas where the electrical
utility hit the user with "peak demand charges".

Oh, in regards to getting diesel fuel when the gas stations
are closed...

Quite often it's a "ran out of gasoline from the tanks" deal,
but they often (if they stock it, of course) will still
have diesel fuel.

(Natch, this only works if they have electric power
themselves. More and more gas stations are putting
in their own backup generators...)

Sure if in all of the other things you are doing after a hurricane,
you want to screw with rewiring a water heater. It also puts that 1.14
KW on one leg of your generator. Bear in mind, if either leg draws
much more than 2.2 KW it will trip, even if there is nothing on the
other side. Load balancing is a lot easier if all your big loads are
240v.

In article ,
says...

The larger diesel generators seem to be a lot more econimical to run
from what I have heard.

Diesels are great if you have a big tank of it on site. If the
stations are closed, you aren't getting diesel either.



Good thing about the diesel is the fuel last a very long time in
storage. I hear it is good for years. May need some alge treatment ?

Where I am at the power seldom goes out and if it does it has not been
out very long. Maybe 2 days at the most.

If I lived in some areas where it goes out frequently I would look into
the diesel. There is no natural gas line near here. I don't have any
equipment that uses diesel fuel, but if I lived on a farm that did where
the fuel could be rotated out it would be good too. Using gas for the
gen , the stored gas gets rotated out very often as I use it in the
mower to mow about an acre and a half.
It does sit from about this time of the year to around March, but it is
the ethanol free. I could always use it in the car if it stayed around
too long.

On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 8:16:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 12:45:52 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 12:22:03 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
On 11/25/2019 11:27 AM, Rory St. Johns wrote:
On 11/25/19 7:40 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
The generator I bought for $799 has a Black Friday price of $749.
Usual price is about
$1000.Â* Free shipping.Â* It's a Pulsar 12000 watt.Â* Gas or propane.


Not sure about any generator brands other than Honda.Â* I went through
about four generators in the past before the Honda, which I've had for
nearly 20 years now.Â* They cost more, but last significantly longer than
most of the other brands.

I've been lucky with my 13 year old Power Boss with Briggs and Stratton
engine and Generac generating part. Has worked reliably but it is
noisy. Honda's I've seen run quietly but are pricey.

I note this Pulsar has electric start and is twice the power of mine.
If I had one like that I would power the whole house.

You really don't need 13KW to power the whole house. It just depends on
what you mean by powering the whole house, what the actual loads are
and if you're willing to manage the loads. You could easily power a
house with furnace, a fridge, a freezer, kitchen, lights and other
small stuff, with just 5KW or less. If you want to run central AC,
then that's another story.

That 5KW disappears pretty fast when you turn on the oven, start up
the dryer or the water heater kicks on, even if the A/C is off.
I ran my house on 5.5kw for 8 days but no dryer, no hot water and
everything was cooked on the gas grille. Fortunately it was warm
enough that we didn't need heat.

It doesn't disappear if you manage the loads, which I think is an acceptable
tradeoff. Want to run the dryer, make sure the water heater is turned off,
etc. Do you really need to run a regular oven, can't get by for a
few days with just the microwave? I'd rather have a 5KW that doesn't use
as much fuel, can be quieter, weighs less, etc and do some managing,
instead of a 10KW and planning on worst case. The larger one will use
more fuel even when only putting out 5KW.

On Tuesday, November 26, 2019 at 1:34:36 AM UTC-5, Rod Speed wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote
wrote

That 5KW disappears pretty fast when you turn on the oven,
start up the dryer or the water heater kicks on, even if the A/C
is off. I ran my house on 5.5kw for 8 days but no dryer, no hot
water and everything was cooked on the gas grille. Fortunately
it was warm enough that we didn't need heat.

Sure the 5 kw is just barely enough.

I don't buy that. When I built my very large house on a bare
block of land, I chose to move in as soon as it was physically
possible to stop paying rent on the flat I was renting. The
whole house was wired up completely but I hasn't got
around to doing the meter box and fuse box etc. So I
powered the whole house from the builder's temporary
supply over a long extension cord which could only deliver
2.5KW using a Jesus adapter, plug on each end of the
stub of extension cord. That powered the purely electrical
cooking and hot water and fridge and 2 freezers fine. You
just had ton be careful to only have the big wall oven and
not the grill on at the same time. Microwave was fine with
the oven or grill.

Electric water heater? If you powered it on 2.5KW either it's
gas or one of the 5 gallon under sink ones. And IDK how you get
an oven by itself, let alone plus a microwave on 2.5KW either.

Ralph Mowery writes:
In article ,
says...

The larger diesel generators seem to be a lot more econimical to run
from what I have heard.

Diesels are great if you have a big tank of it on site. If the
stations are closed, you aren't getting diesel either.



Good thing about the diesel is the fuel last a very long time in
storage. I hear it is good for years. May need some alge treatment ?

Where I am at the power seldom goes out and if it does it has not been
out very long. Maybe 2 days at the most.

If I lived in some areas where it goes out frequently I would look into
the diesel. There is no natural gas line near here.

I'd look at solar + a powerwall or LG battery pack. Suitably sized
installation basically negates the loss of grid completely. And a
non-zero return on investment; it doesn't sit idle most of the time
like a generator will.

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 07:26:27 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 05:51:11 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
wrote:

In writes:

[snip]

The water heater, all by itself tripped the breaker on the generator
(5500w). Same with the dryer. I can run the oven but that is 97% of
the output.

I take it you've got an electric water heater. It should be
possible to rewire the connections so that instead of 240V it
gets 120V. This will reduce the amperage by half, and with
the similar voltage cutdown, means the watts it pulls will
be only 1/4 of the original number [a].

(Natch, this also means a _lot_ longer to heat up waer
from a, so to speak, cold start)

I did this type of rewiring in areas where the electrical
utility hit the user with "peak demand charges".

Oh, in regards to getting diesel fuel when the gas stations
are closed...

Quite often it's a "ran out of gasoline from the tanks" deal,
but they often (if they stock it, of course) will still
have diesel fuel.

(Natch, this only works if they have electric power
themselves. More and more gas stations are putting
in their own backup generators...)

Sure if in all of the other things you are doing after a hurricane,
you want to screw with rewiring a water heater. It also puts that 1.14
KW on one leg of your generator. Bear in mind, if either leg draws
much more than 2.2 KW it will trip, even if there is nothing on the
other side. Load balancing is a lot easier if all your big loads are
240v.
better to just connect upper and lower elements in series - achieves
the same result and balances the load

On 11/25/19 6:55 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

[snip]

One winter in another house the electricity went out and the generator
would not gin. Lucky that I had an unvernted natural gas heater in one
room that I could stay somewhat warm for 2 days and 2 nights.

I had just bought this house when we had a 2-day power outage when it
was cold (ice storm). Having gas logs in the fireplace helped.

--
29 days until the winter celebration (Wed, Dec 25, 2019 12:00:00 AM for
1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"The whole tone of Church teaching in regard to women is, to the last
degree, contemptuous and degrading." [Elizabeth Cady Stanton]

On 11/26/2019 12:16 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11/25/19 6:55 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

[snip]

One winter in another house the electricity went out and the generator
would not gin.Â* Lucky that I had an unvernted natural gas heater in one
room that I could stay somewhat warm for 2 days and 2 nights.

I had just bought this house when we had a 2-day power outage when it
was cold (ice storm). Having gas logs in the fireplace helped.


Â* I think we actually get fewer and shorter power outages out here in
the woods than we did when we lived in Memphis . But we and nearly
everybody that lives near us heat with wood and have a generator for
backup - usually just enough for lights and refrigerators , but a couple
have whole-house auto-start units . And 500 gallon propane tanks out in
their yards , natgas service ain't happenin' out here . We get by on a
5kw B&S gas unit , it'll power everything but AC and the water heater .
It lives in my shop , and I have a setup to feed the main panel from the
shop sub-panel . I keep a supply of stabilized non-ethanol gas on hand
for yard equipment , so fuel usually isn't a problem . And if it comes
right down to it I can drain another 10 gallons from the Harleys
(usually kept full) plus whatever ethanol-laced fuel is in the car and
truck if I get that desperate .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 07:46:46 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 8:16:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 12:45:52 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 12:22:03 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
On 11/25/2019 11:27 AM, Rory St. Johns wrote:
On 11/25/19 7:40 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
The generator I bought for $799 has a Black Friday price of $749.
Usual price is about
$1000.Â* Free shipping.Â* It's a Pulsar 12000 watt.Â* Gas or propane.


Not sure about any generator brands other than Honda.Â* I went through
about four generators in the past before the Honda, which I've had for
nearly 20 years now.Â* They cost more, but last significantly longer than
most of the other brands.

I've been lucky with my 13 year old Power Boss with Briggs and Stratton
engine and Generac generating part. Has worked reliably but it is
noisy. Honda's I've seen run quietly but are pricey.

I note this Pulsar has electric start and is twice the power of mine.
If I had one like that I would power the whole house.

You really don't need 13KW to power the whole house. It just depends on
what you mean by powering the whole house, what the actual loads are
and if you're willing to manage the loads. You could easily power a
house with furnace, a fridge, a freezer, kitchen, lights and other
small stuff, with just 5KW or less. If you want to run central AC,
then that's another story.

That 5KW disappears pretty fast when you turn on the oven, start up
the dryer or the water heater kicks on, even if the A/C is off.
I ran my house on 5.5kw for 8 days but no dryer, no hot water and
everything was cooked on the gas grille. Fortunately it was warm
enough that we didn't need heat.

It doesn't disappear if you manage the loads, which I think is an acceptable
tradeoff. Want to run the dryer, make sure the water heater is turned off,
etc. Do you really need to run a regular oven, can't get by for a
few days with just the microwave? I'd rather have a 5KW that doesn't use
as much fuel, can be quieter, weighs less, etc and do some managing,
instead of a 10KW and planning on worst case. The larger one will use
more fuel even when only putting out 5KW.

The problem is the water heater and the dryer tripped out the
generator, with nothing else on. I know why the water heater did it,
it is 100% of the generator rating and I didn't want to screw with the
dryer too much since it is a new one with a chip in it. I didn't want
to be buying a $300 control board so my wife didn't have to hang some
stuff on the line.

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 16:36:35 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Ralph Mowery writes:
In article ,
says...

The larger diesel generators seem to be a lot more econimical to run
from what I have heard.

Diesels are great if you have a big tank of it on site. If the
stations are closed, you aren't getting diesel either.



Good thing about the diesel is the fuel last a very long time in
storage. I hear it is good for years. May need some alge treatment ?

Where I am at the power seldom goes out and if it does it has not been
out very long. Maybe 2 days at the most.

If I lived in some areas where it goes out frequently I would look into
the diesel. There is no natural gas line near here.

I'd look at solar + a powerwall or LG battery pack. Suitably sized
installation basically negates the loss of grid completely. And a
non-zero return on investment; it doesn't sit idle most of the time
like a generator will.

The problem is that without hacking the inverter a conventional grid
tie system won't do anything if the grid is down.

You still need a pretty big system if you want 5kw 24/7. (something on
the order of a 20kw system with enough storage to run all night) and
more than that if you want a reliable 5kw.
If you want to be Amish, burn something else for your BTUs and live
without A/C, I suppose a smaller system would work for you.

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 12:44:22 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 07:26:27 -0500, wrote:

On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 05:51:11 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
wrote:

In writes:

[snip]

The water heater, all by itself tripped the breaker on the generator
(5500w). Same with the dryer. I can run the oven but that is 97% of
the output.

I take it you've got an electric water heater. It should be
possible to rewire the connections so that instead of 240V it
gets 120V. This will reduce the amperage by half, and with
the similar voltage cutdown, means the watts it pulls will
be only 1/4 of the original number [a].

(Natch, this also means a _lot_ longer to heat up waer
from a, so to speak, cold start)

I did this type of rewiring in areas where the electrical
utility hit the user with "peak demand charges".

Oh, in regards to getting diesel fuel when the gas stations
are closed...

Quite often it's a "ran out of gasoline from the tanks" deal,
but they often (if they stock it, of course) will still
have diesel fuel.

(Natch, this only works if they have electric power
themselves. More and more gas stations are putting
in their own backup generators...)

Sure if in all of the other things you are doing after a hurricane,
you want to screw with rewiring a water heater. It also puts that 1.14
KW on one leg of your generator. Bear in mind, if either leg draws
much more than 2.2 KW it will trip, even if there is nothing on the
other side. Load balancing is a lot easier if all your big loads are
240v.
better to just connect upper and lower elements in series - achieves
the same result and balances the load

Half the same result but yes, if I get in that situation and they tell
me the power will be out for an indefinite time, I thought about that.
Putting them in series cuts the watts in half, running them at half
voltage cuts it to 25%.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, November 26, 2019 at 1:34:36 AM UTC-5, Rod Speed wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote
wrote

That 5KW disappears pretty fast when you turn on the oven,
start up the dryer or the water heater kicks on, even if the A/C
is off. I ran my house on 5.5kw for 8 days but no dryer, no hot
water and everything was cooked on the gas grille. Fortunately
it was warm enough that we didn't need heat.

Sure the 5 kw is just barely enough.

I don't buy that. When I built my very large house on a bare
block of land, I chose to move in as soon as it was physically
possible to stop paying rent on the flat I was renting. The
whole house was wired up completely but I hasn't got
around to doing the meter box and fuse box etc. So I
powered the whole house from the builder's temporary
supply over a long extension cord which could only deliver
2.5KW using a Jesus adapter, plug on each end of the
stub of extension cord. That powered the purely electrical
cooking and hot water and fridge and 2 freezers fine. You
just had ton be careful to only have the big wall oven and
not the grill on at the same time. Microwave was fine with
the oven or grill.

Electric water heater?

Yep, but storage, so its fine to heat the water at night
etc when nothing else is being powered. It now uses the
off peak electricity for the cheaper electricity so does
fine with just an overnight charge size of tank wise.

If you powered it on 2.5KW either it's gas
or one of the 5 gallon under sink ones.

Wrong on both counts.

And IDK how you get an oven by itself,

Trivial, thats the element power.

let alone plus a microwave on 2.5KW either.

Again, trivial, they arent usually on together
because of the thermostat in the oven and when
they are both on, the fuse doesnt blow because
the long extension cord limits the current.

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message
...
Ralph Mowery writes:
In article ,
says...

The larger diesel generators seem to be a lot more econimical to run
from what I have heard.

Diesels are great if you have a big tank of it on site. If the
stations are closed, you aren't getting diesel either.



Good thing about the diesel is the fuel last a very long time in
storage. I hear it is good for years. May need some alge treatment ?

Where I am at the power seldom goes out and if it does it has not been
out very long. Maybe 2 days at the most.

If I lived in some areas where it goes out frequently I would look into
the diesel. There is no natural gas line near here.

I'd look at solar + a powerwall or LG battery pack.

Hopeless economic with the powerwall or LG battery pack.

Suitably sized installation basically negates the loss of grid completely.

But when we lose the grid ad most every few years, still hopeless economics.

And a non-zero return on investment;

Much better returns available in the stock market
or mutual funds if you don’t have the knowledge.

it doesn't sit idle most of the time like a generator will.

Mine cost me peanuts at a garage/yard sale. Never actually
used it. The last time the grid was supposed to be out for about
6 hours in the middle of the day as they replaced a couple of
old wooden power poles with the 11KV distribution on top,
I took my usual knap when the grid went off, woke up at mid
day, noticed that the grid was back, walked out and asked
the traffic directing monkey if they had finished. He said that
they probably had if the grid was back, carried on regardless.

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:44:39 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Hopeless

Indeed, you are, you sleepless trolling senile pest!

--
Website (from 2007) dedicated to the 85-year-old trolling senile
cretin from Oz:
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 14:34:37 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Yep, but

In auto-contradicting mode again, you clinically insane sleepless senile
cretin? BG

--
Kerr-Mudd,John addressing senile Rot:
"Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)"
MID:

writes:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 16:36:35 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:



I'd look at solar + a powerwall or LG battery pack. Suitably sized
installation basically negates the loss of grid completely. And a
non-zero return on investment; it doesn't sit idle most of the time
like a generator will.

The problem is that without hacking the inverter a conventional grid
tie system won't do anything if the grid is down.

Actually such systems are designed specifically to handle the
inverters without any hacking necessary (the battery pack takes
place of the grid tie from the perspective of the microinverters).


You still need a pretty big system if you want 5kw 24/7. (something on
the order of a 20kw system with enough storage to run all night) and
more than that if you want a reliable 5kw.

That really depends on what you're looking for and what you expect
your loads to be during such outages. One would need to understand
the system capabilities and tailor usage to match when the power
is out.

If you want to be Amish, burn something else for your BTUs and live
without A/C, I suppose a smaller system would work for you.

Not everyone needs A/C; I don't have it and generally (absent a day
or two a year) don't need it. I haven't had A/C for the last 30 years.
Summer high temperatures often reach 100 F (generally with 15-18% RH).

No solution fits every need, but there are millions of households that
would benefit from a battery backup system during power outages.

On Tuesday, November 26, 2019 at 10:34:50 PM UTC-5, Rod Speed wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, November 26, 2019 at 1:34:36 AM UTC-5, Rod Speed wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote
wrote

That 5KW disappears pretty fast when you turn on the oven,
start up the dryer or the water heater kicks on, even if the A/C
is off. I ran my house on 5.5kw for 8 days but no dryer, no hot
water and everything was cooked on the gas grille. Fortunately
it was warm enough that we didn't need heat.

Sure the 5 kw is just barely enough.

I don't buy that. When I built my very large house on a bare
block of land, I chose to move in as soon as it was physically
possible to stop paying rent on the flat I was renting. The
whole house was wired up completely but I hasn't got
around to doing the meter box and fuse box etc. So I
powered the whole house from the builder's temporary
supply over a long extension cord which could only deliver
2.5KW using a Jesus adapter, plug on each end of the
stub of extension cord. That powered the purely electrical
cooking and hot water and fridge and 2 freezers fine. You
just had ton be careful to only have the big wall oven and
not the grill on at the same time. Microwave was fine with
the oven or grill.

Electric water heater?

Yep, but storage, so its fine to heat the water at night
etc when nothing else is being powered. It now uses the
off peak electricity for the cheaper electricity so does
fine with just an overnight charge size of tank wise.

If you powered it on 2.5KW either it's gas
or one of the 5 gallon under sink ones.

Wrong on both counts.

As usual, just more BS, no facts added. IDK WTF you use down there in
kangaroo land, but in the US, a typical 40 gal storage water heater
doesn't run on 2.5KW, it's closer to twice that. A 5 gal one would.
So, WTF do you actually have or are you just full of ****, as usual?





And IDK how you get an oven by itself,

Trivial, thats the element power.

Another dishonest edit job. Here is what I actually said:

"And IDK how you get
an oven by itself, let alone plus a microwave on 2.5KW either. "






let alone plus a microwave on 2.5KW either.

Again, trivial, they arent usually on together
because of the thermostat in the oven and when
they are both on, the fuse doesnt blow because
the long extension cord limits the current.

BS.

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 15:06:51 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 16:36:35 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:



I'd look at solar + a powerwall or LG battery pack. Suitably sized
installation basically negates the loss of grid completely. And a
non-zero return on investment; it doesn't sit idle most of the time
like a generator will.

The problem is that without hacking the inverter a conventional grid
tie system won't do anything if the grid is down.

Actually such systems are designed specifically to handle the
inverters without any hacking necessary (the battery pack takes
place of the grid tie from the perspective of the microinverters).

That is not most of them.


You still need a pretty big system if you want 5kw 24/7. (something on
the order of a 20kw system with enough storage to run all night) and
more than that if you want a reliable 5kw.

That really depends on what you're looking for and what you expect
your loads to be during such outages. One would need to understand
the system capabilities and tailor usage to match when the power
is out.

Like I said, great if you want to me Amish.


If you want to be Amish, burn something else for your BTUs and live
without A/C, I suppose a smaller system would work for you.

Not everyone needs A/C; I don't have it and generally (absent a day
or two a year) don't need it. I haven't had A/C for the last 30 years.
Summer high temperatures often reach 100 F (generally with 15-18% RH).

No solution fits every need, but there are millions of households that
would benefit from a battery backup system during power outages.

So then your problem will be heat. You are either burning that evil
fossil fuel or you are freezing. You are not seriously going to say
most people can afford a battery system that will run a heat pump all
night and resistive heat would be out of the question.
Yeah I know about Trombe walls and water storage but there are not
many places in the country where those systems are effective. One of
my engineer friends built a water storage space heating system in Md
back when Jimmy Carter was saving the world and he says he will never
do it again.

On Wed, 27 Nov 2019 07:18:00 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Tuesday, November 26, 2019 at 10:34:50 PM UTC-5, Rod Speed wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Tuesday, November 26, 2019 at 1:34:36 AM UTC-5, Rod Speed wrote:
Ralph Mowery wrote
wrote

That 5KW disappears pretty fast when you turn on the oven,
start up the dryer or the water heater kicks on, even if the A/C
is off. I ran my house on 5.5kw for 8 days but no dryer, no hot
water and everything was cooked on the gas grille. Fortunately
it was warm enough that we didn't need heat.

Sure the 5 kw is just barely enough.

I don't buy that. When I built my very large house on a bare
block of land, I chose to move in as soon as it was physically
possible to stop paying rent on the flat I was renting. The
whole house was wired up completely but I hasn't got
around to doing the meter box and fuse box etc. So I
powered the whole house from the builder's temporary
supply over a long extension cord which could only deliver
2.5KW using a Jesus adapter, plug on each end of the
stub of extension cord. That powered the purely electrical
cooking and hot water and fridge and 2 freezers fine. You
just had ton be careful to only have the big wall oven and
not the grill on at the same time. Microwave was fine with
the oven or grill.

Electric water heater?

Yep, but storage, so its fine to heat the water at night
etc when nothing else is being powered. It now uses the
off peak electricity for the cheaper electricity so does
fine with just an overnight charge size of tank wise.

If you powered it on 2.5KW either it's gas
or one of the 5 gallon under sink ones.

Wrong on both counts.

As usual, just more BS, no facts added. IDK WTF you use down there in
kangaroo land, but in the US, a typical 40 gal storage water heater
doesn't run on 2.5KW, it's closer to twice that. A 5 gal one would.
So, WTF do you actually have or are you just full of ****, as usual?

My 40 gal has 5.5 KW Elements. The other option is 4.3KW in a standard
water heater. My generator would run it with no other significant load
connected if I switched out the elements.

On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 08:49:18 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:14:56 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:11:03 -0600, Dean Hoffman wrote:

On 11/25/19 6:40 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
The generator I bought for $799 has a Black Friday price of $749. Usual price is about
$1000. Free shipping. It's a Pulsar 12000 watt. Gas or propane.

Where?

Newegg.com



I checked-out their inverter generators - the B&S Q6500
with a 240 volt outlet at $ 1300. US caught my interest !
.. then I checked their Canadian site - only the lower model
available P4500 no 240 volt outlet $ 2500. Canadian.
Ugghh.
John T.


The B&S Q6500 is now on sale at Canadian Tire -

http://tinyurl.com/vuvutxv

$ 1700. reg. $ 2000. Canadian dollars.

http://tinyurl.com/r5dsd5r

Tempting - but unfortunate that a couple reviews on Amazon
said - when running on "quite mode" - it hunts up & down
constantly and delivers voltage accordingly.
Maybe that's a red herring though - I never run my Honda
on "idle down" maybe "quiet mode" is something I'd never
need or use anyway ? ...
John T.