On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 01:20:46 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 23:43:38 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 22:30:05 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:03:33 +0100, Xeno
wrote:

On 23/6/19 5:43 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:08:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:55:03 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:14:07 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

No news to me, boy.

He's probably as old as you.

He isnt.

I've met Bod and he's (I'm about to insult him most likely) very
very
old
indeed. I'd have to guess 80 to 90.

Thats just the furious drunken grave dancing and flagrant drug
abuse.

Smoking does make your face more wrinkly, but I'm sure he told me
his
age once.

For some reason I've always assumed you're about 70.

You're still wrong.

What is your age then?

And back on topic, I just bought a 16 amp 13.8V power supply, that
ought
to keep the bloody frog car charged up. It's currently maxing out
my
2.5A supply all night, and still not starting in the morning.

That's telling you your battery is knackered. Try a high rate
discharge
test on it. You will see it fall over very quickly.

Wrong yet again. I've changed the battery twice. It's consuming
power
overnight - presumably the alarm - I've actually measured up to 4
amps
(randomly, sometimes it consumes nothing) coming off the battery
with a
meter when all the fuses are pulled.

Sounds more like a wiring fault. An alarm shouldnt
ever take anything like that when its not sounding.

But if it's broken....

There is no fault in an alarm that would produce a result like that..

I don't know enough about alarms to disagree, but couldn't it be sounding
the alarm without noise as something is broken?

Nope. Its the sound that takes the current.
It if isnt sounding, there isnt the current.

It's never tried to prevent me starting the engine though.

Yeah, it wont be an alarm fault.

Can be a real bugger to find if its a pinched wire somewhere if it
isnt
obvious where a wire can be pinched like at one of the doors etc.

Surely a physical short like that would just burn out eventually.

Nope, 4A isnt enough to do that.

I can't see a loose wire doing that.

Its not a loose wire, its a wire jammed between two
pieces of metal with an edge cutting thru the insulation.

At some point it will either burn itself

Not with 4A it wont.

or a fuse.

It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

If you can somehow rig up something that allows you to
see or hear the current draw, or have someone else watch
the meter, you may be able to see if its a door by doing
that and operating the doors.

I've only ever seen it by leaving a multimeter connected with a maximum function running. Car sat perfectly still, it just does it sometimes overnight.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:31:05 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 23:43:38 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 22:30:05 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:03:33 +0100, Xeno
wrote:

On 23/6/19 5:43 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:08:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:55:03 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:14:07 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

No news to me, boy.

He's probably as old as you.

He isnt.

I've met Bod and he's (I'm about to insult him most likely) very
very
old
indeed. I'd have to guess 80 to 90.

Thats just the furious drunken grave dancing and flagrant drug
abuse.

Smoking does make your face more wrinkly, but I'm sure he told me
his
age once.

For some reason I've always assumed you're about 70.

You're still wrong.

What is your age then?

And back on topic, I just bought a 16 amp 13.8V power supply, that
ought
to keep the bloody frog car charged up. It's currently maxing out
my
2.5A supply all night, and still not starting in the morning.

That's telling you your battery is knackered. Try a high rate
discharge
test on it. You will see it fall over very quickly.

Wrong yet again. I've changed the battery twice. It's consuming
power
overnight - presumably the alarm - I've actually measured up to 4
amps
(randomly, sometimes it consumes nothing) coming off the battery with
a
meter when all the fuses are pulled.

Sounds more like a wiring fault. An alarm shouldnt
ever take anything like that when its not sounding.

But if it's broken....

There is no fault in an alarm that would produce a result like that.

I don't know enough about alarms to disagree, but couldn't it be sounding
the alarm without noise as something is broken?

Nope. Its the sound that takes the current.
It if isnt sounding, there isnt the current.

A speaker with a short? If you played your stereo into a shorted speaker, it would consume a fair bit of power.

It's never tried to prevent me starting the engine though.

Yeah, it wont be an alarm fault.

Can be a real bugger to find if its a pinched wire somewhere if it
isnt
obvious where a wire can be pinched like at one of the doors etc.

Surely a physical short like that would just burn out eventually.

Nope, 4A isnt enough to do that.

I can't see a loose wire doing that.

Its not a loose wire, its a wire jammed between two
pieces of metal with an edge cutting thru the insulation.

At some point it will either burn itself

Not with 4A it wont.

I would have thought a wire severed as you stated would use more than 4A.. Either that or part of it would become hot enough to stop being there and shorting.

or a fuse.

It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

Which means it has to be quite a heavy guage wire, so a low amperage seems odd.

It's been doing it for 3 years. 4A at 12V is 48 watts, a lot of power.

On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 03:59:55 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Xeno" wrote in message
...
On 23/6/19 1:30 am, Rod Speed wrote:


"Xeno" wrote in message
...
On 22/6/19 7:58 pm, Rod Speed wrote:


"Xeno" wrote in message
...
On 22/6/19 9:57 am, Rod Speed wrote:


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 23:57:52 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 22:57:44 +0100, Max Demian

wrote:

On 21/06/2019 21:19, Commander Kinsey wrote:
How does a lead acid battery charger (or car alternator) know
when to
switch to trickle charge? I can understand it noticing a drop
in
charging current if the battery is on its own, but what if a
random
changing load is connected, as there is in a running car?

The voltage perhaps.

Why would the voltage change?

That's the way batterys work, the battery voltage does change as
its
charged.

That's determined by the alternator or charger.

Nope.

Yip.

Nope.

I can put any voltage I like across a battery's terminals.

Nope.

The battery then chooses how much current is drawn.

And that current changes depending on the how charged the battery is.

Let's say the charger/alternator gives out 14.4V initially, to
charge the
battery quickly. It'll just sit at 14.4V forever, providing the
charger
can give out enough current to charge the slightly flat battery
and power
any connected loads.

Its more complicated than that with the current going to the
battery and the
battery is charged.

If the battery had no loads connected, it would take a lot less
current
when it became full, but the voltage would stay the same.

No it doesn't even with a very crude battery charger.

For example, I'm currently keeping my car's battery topped up with a
bench supply overnight. It's set to 13.8V, with a current limiter
only to prevent overloading the supply.

It actually specify the current being supplied.

The voltage stays at 13.8V all the time, sometimes 100mA is drawn,
sometimes up to 4A. The only way I or the supply can tell the
battery is full, is by the current dropping to 100mA. But it's
actually always full, as when 4A is drawn, that's going to a load.

What load ? There no load with a battery being charged with a bench
supply.

Correction

Nope.

the *battery* is the *load*.

Not when the battery is fully charged and is being charged
with a bench supply that is delivering 4A to the battery.

Take the case of an alternator charging a battery at ~4 amps.

That isnt what was being discussed there. What was being discussed
there was charging the battery out of the car with a bench supply.

The battery is the load and it also provides, as part of that function,
the reference *voltage* that the alternator *must have* in order to
control the output.

None of that is relevant to what was being discussed there,
charging the battery out of the car with a bench supply.

In the process of being charged it is using electric current. That
makes it the load.

See above.

What happens to the charger when you disconnect the power with the
battery connected?

With a BENCH SUPPLY, it continues to provide the
same voltage as it did with the battery connected.

It should, if designed correctly, shut down since it no longer sees a
load. Otherwise it may destroy itself.

That is just plain wrong with a BENCH SUPPLY.
None of those destroy themselves with no load.

Even when it is fully charged it will still take a trickle charge

4A isnt a trickle charge.

That depends entirely on the amp hour rating of the battery.

We're discussing a normal car battery in a steaming turd with
wheels frog car.

Also, my bench charger

We arent discussing a bench charger, we are discussing a bench SUPPLY.

will start off at 4 amps, its maximum capacity. As the battery becomes
charged, that current will drop down to *1 amp* and, from that point, it
will maintain a *trickle charge*.

So that is nothing like the situation being discussed
with a BENCH SUPPLY which is still delivering 4A to
a battery that has been removed from the car.

From Wikipedia;
For lead-acid batteries under no load float charging (such as
in SLI batteries), trickle charging happens naturally at the
end-of-charge, when the lead-acid battery internal resistance
to the charging current increases enough to reduce additional
charging current to a trickle, hence the name. In such cases,
the trickle charging equals the energy expended by the
lead-acid battery splitting the water in the electrolyte into
hydrogen and oxygen gases

Irrelevant to what is being discussed, 4A isnt a trickle charge.

The car alternator regulator is no different.

We arent discussing that there.

It sees the battery as a load, determines the voltage reference and
pumps up its output. When the regulator sees the battery voltage at the
peak setpoint, it too will drop the current to a trickle. If you add a
load, say by turning headlights on, that is in *parallel* to the battery
and it will drop the system voltage down a tad. The regulator will see
that and pump up the output current appropriately. The current will
apportion itself to the *two* loads as appropriate to their individual
internal resistances.

All irrelevant to charging a battery out of the car with a BENCH SUPPLY.

Here, educate yourself;
https://www.swtc.edu/ag_power/electr...l_circuits.htm

I knew all that before you were even born, thanks.

so it is still a load even when fully charged.

Not when its still taking 4A,

If the battery is *taking* 4 amps, then it *is definitely the load*.

But it wont be taking 4A WHEN THE BATTERY IS OUT OF THE
CAR WITH A BENCH SUPPLY. Because the battery voltage will
have risen once it has been charged so the original 4A will
have dropped significantly WITH A BENCH SUPPLY.

If you have a battery connected to a bench supply, it is still the load
because it will always be taking *some* current. If it is taking 4 amps it
is definitely loading the BENCH SUPPLY.

It wont be taking 4A when charged unless
you have completely ****ed up the voltage.

Or a cell has died, in which case you have a 10V battery. I've done that and caused an explosion.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 01:20:46 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 23:43:38 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 22:30:05 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:03:33 +0100, Xeno

wrote:

On 23/6/19 5:43 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:08:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:55:03 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:14:07 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

No news to me, boy.

He's probably as old as you.

He isnt.

I've met Bod and he's (I'm about to insult him most likely)
very
very
old
indeed. I'd have to guess 80 to 90.

Thats just the furious drunken grave dancing and flagrant drug
abuse.

Smoking does make your face more wrinkly, but I'm sure he told
me
his
age once.

For some reason I've always assumed you're about 70.

You're still wrong.

What is your age then?

And back on topic, I just bought a 16 amp 13.8V power supply,
that
ought
to keep the bloody frog car charged up. It's currently maxing
out
my
2.5A supply all night, and still not starting in the morning.

That's telling you your battery is knackered. Try a high rate
discharge
test on it. You will see it fall over very quickly.

Wrong yet again. I've changed the battery twice. It's consuming
power
overnight - presumably the alarm - I've actually measured up to 4
amps
(randomly, sometimes it consumes nothing) coming off the battery
with a
meter when all the fuses are pulled.

Sounds more like a wiring fault. An alarm shouldnt
ever take anything like that when its not sounding.

But if it's broken....

There is no fault in an alarm that would produce a result like that.

I don't know enough about alarms to disagree, but couldn't it be
sounding
the alarm without noise as something is broken?

Nope. Its the sound that takes the current.
It if isnt sounding, there isnt the current.

It's never tried to prevent me starting the engine though.

Yeah, it wont be an alarm fault.

Can be a real bugger to find if its a pinched wire somewhere if it
isnt
obvious where a wire can be pinched like at one of the doors etc.

Surely a physical short like that would just burn out eventually.

Nope, 4A isnt enough to do that.

I can't see a loose wire doing that.

Its not a loose wire, its a wire jammed between two
pieces of metal with an edge cutting thru the insulation.

At some point it will either burn itself

Not with 4A it wont.

or a fuse.

It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

If you can somehow rig up something that allows you to
see or hear the current draw, or have someone else watch
the meter, you may be able to see if its a door by doing
that and operating the doors.

I've only ever seen it by leaving a multimeter connected with a maximum
function running. Car sat perfectly still, it just does it sometimes
overnight.

Yeah, you really need a proper data logger. Not expensive.

And that would allow you to see which door is the problem
too if it is one of the doors pinching a cable as its closed.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:31:05 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 23:43:38 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 22:30:05 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:03:33 +0100, Xeno
wrote:

On 23/6/19 5:43 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:08:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:55:03 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:14:07 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

No news to me, boy.

He's probably as old as you.

He isnt.

I've met Bod and he's (I'm about to insult him most likely)
very
very
old
indeed. I'd have to guess 80 to 90.

Thats just the furious drunken grave dancing and flagrant drug
abuse.

Smoking does make your face more wrinkly, but I'm sure he told me
his
age once.

For some reason I've always assumed you're about 70.

You're still wrong.

What is your age then?

And back on topic, I just bought a 16 amp 13.8V power supply,
that
ought
to keep the bloody frog car charged up. It's currently maxing
out
my
2.5A supply all night, and still not starting in the morning.

That's telling you your battery is knackered. Try a high rate
discharge
test on it. You will see it fall over very quickly.

Wrong yet again. I've changed the battery twice. It's consuming
power
overnight - presumably the alarm - I've actually measured up to 4
amps
(randomly, sometimes it consumes nothing) coming off the battery
with
a
meter when all the fuses are pulled.

Sounds more like a wiring fault. An alarm shouldnt
ever take anything like that when its not sounding.

But if it's broken....

There is no fault in an alarm that would produce a result like that.

I don't know enough about alarms to disagree, but couldn't it be
sounding
the alarm without noise as something is broken?

Nope. Its the sound that takes the current.
It if isnt sounding, there isnt the current.

A speaker with a short?

They normally use the car horn and you should be able
to check that that still works. And if it was the alarm,
that should stop the car being started next morning
and you have said it does allow you to start fine.

If you played your stereo into a shorted speaker, it would consume a fair
bit of power.

Its very unlikely to have a speaker for that even in a frog car.

It's never tried to prevent me starting the engine though.

Yeah, it wont be an alarm fault.

Can be a real bugger to find if its a pinched wire somewhere if it
isnt
obvious where a wire can be pinched like at one of the doors etc.

Surely a physical short like that would just burn out eventually.

Nope, 4A isnt enough to do that.

I can't see a loose wire doing that.

Its not a loose wire, its a wire jammed between two
pieces of metal with an edge cutting thru the insulation.

At some point it will either burn itself

Not with 4A it wont.

I would have thought a wire severed as you stated

I didnt say severed, I said pinched. The insulation pierced by the
metal edge with the conductor then shorted to the body of the car.

would use more than 4A.

Depends on the gauge of the wire and so the resistance
and how good the contact between the conductor and
the car body is.

Either that or part of it would become hot enough to stop being there and
shorting.

4A thru the car body isnt going to get hot.

or a fuse.

It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

Which means it has to be quite a heavy guage wire,

Nope, it may well be a relatively light gauge
wire and thats why it self limits at 4A.

so a low amperage seems odd.

Not when it self limits at that when pinched.

Guess it could also be a failing electric window switch.
Electric windows do have limit switches for obvious
reasons and they do take something like 4A when
driving against the limit switch until you stop pressing
the button because you see the window at the limit.

Presumably it does have electric windows.

It's been doing it for 3 years. 4A at 12V is 48 watts, a lot of power.
Think how hot a 48W bulb gets.

Thats with the entire 48W being dissipated in the
very small filament. With a pinched wire, thats
mostly going thru the metal of the car body.

Surely most heat would be where the resistance is highest, at the pinch.

Nope, not with a decent pinch.

How long does the 4A last for ?

It can flatten the (new 50Ah) battery overnight.

Sure, but I was wondering if it was 4A all night or just in bursts.
You really need a proper data logger to see that, but just visual
inspection of the multimeter might be enough.

After more thought, I'd be checking the electric window switches
if its got electric windows.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:31:05 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 23:43:38 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 22:30:05 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:03:33 +0100, Xeno

wrote:

On 23/6/19 5:43 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:08:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:55:03 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:14:07 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

No news to me, boy.

He's probably as old as you.

He isnt.

I've met Bod and he's (I'm about to insult him most likely)
very
very
old
indeed. I'd have to guess 80 to 90.

Thats just the furious drunken grave dancing and flagrant drug
abuse.

Smoking does make your face more wrinkly, but I'm sure he told
me
his
age once.

For some reason I've always assumed you're about 70.

You're still wrong.

What is your age then?

And back on topic, I just bought a 16 amp 13.8V power supply,
that
ought
to keep the bloody frog car charged up. It's currently maxing
out
my
2.5A supply all night, and still not starting in the morning.

That's telling you your battery is knackered. Try a high rate
discharge
test on it. You will see it fall over very quickly.

Wrong yet again. I've changed the battery twice. It's consuming
power
overnight - presumably the alarm - I've actually measured up to 4
amps
(randomly, sometimes it consumes nothing) coming off the battery
with
a
meter when all the fuses are pulled.

Sounds more like a wiring fault. An alarm shouldnt
ever take anything like that when its not sounding.

But if it's broken....

There is no fault in an alarm that would produce a result like that.

I don't know enough about alarms to disagree, but couldn't it be
sounding
the alarm without noise as something is broken?

Nope. Its the sound that takes the current.
It if isnt sounding, there isnt the current.

A speaker with a short?

They normally use the car horn and you should be able
to check that that still works. And if it was the alarm,
that should stop the car being started next morning
and you have said it does allow you to start fine.

If you played your stereo into a shorted speaker, it would consume a fair
bit of power.

Its very unlikely to have a speaker for that even in a frog car.

It's never tried to prevent me starting the engine though.

Yeah, it wont be an alarm fault.

Can be a real bugger to find if its a pinched wire somewhere if it
isnt
obvious where a wire can be pinched like at one of the doors etc.

Surely a physical short like that would just burn out eventually.

Nope, 4A isnt enough to do that.

I can't see a loose wire doing that.

Its not a loose wire, its a wire jammed between two
pieces of metal with an edge cutting thru the insulation.

At some point it will either burn itself

Not with 4A it wont.

I would have thought a wire severed as you stated

I didnt say severed, I said pinched. The insulation pierced by the
metal edge with the conductor then shorted to the body of the car.

would use more than 4A.

Depends on the gauge of the wire and so the resistance
and how good the contact between the conductor and
the car body is.

Either that or part of it would become hot enough to stop being there and
shorting.

4A thru the car body isnt going to get hot.

or a fuse.

It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

Which means it has to be quite a heavy guage wire,

Nope, it may well be a relatively light gauge
wire and thats why it self limits at 4A.

so a low amperage seems odd.

Not when it self limits at that when pinched.

Guess it could also be a failing electric window switch.
Electric windows do have limit switches for obvious
reasons and they do take something like 4A when
driving against the limit switch until you stop pressing
the button because you see the window at the limit.

Presumably it does have electric windows.

It's been doing it for 3 years. 4A at 12V is 48 watts, a lot of power.
Think how hot a 48W bulb gets.

Thats with the entire 48W being dissipated in the
very small filament. With a pinched wire, thats
mostly going thru the metal of the car body.

Surely most heat would be where the resistance is highest, at the pinch.

Nope, not with a decent pinch.

How long does the 4A last for ?

It can flatten the (new 50Ah) battery overnight.

Sure, but I was wondering if it was 4A all night or just in bursts.
You really need a proper data logger to see that, but just visual
inspection of the multimeter might be enough.

After more thought, I'd be checking the electric window switches
if its got electric windows.

Bugger, can't be that because no fuses should stop that
unless the stupid frog car doesnt fuse those windows.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:31:44 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 01:20:46 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 23:43:38 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 22:30:05 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:03:33 +0100, Xeno

wrote:

On 23/6/19 5:43 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:08:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:55:03 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:14:07 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

No news to me, boy.

He's probably as old as you.

He isnt.

I've met Bod and he's (I'm about to insult him most likely)
very
very
old
indeed. I'd have to guess 80 to 90.

Thats just the furious drunken grave dancing and flagrant drug
abuse.

Smoking does make your face more wrinkly, but I'm sure he told
me
his
age once.

For some reason I've always assumed you're about 70.

You're still wrong.

What is your age then?

And back on topic, I just bought a 16 amp 13.8V power supply,
that
ought
to keep the bloody frog car charged up. It's currently maxing
out
my
2.5A supply all night, and still not starting in the morning.

That's telling you your battery is knackered. Try a high rate
discharge
test on it. You will see it fall over very quickly.

Wrong yet again. I've changed the battery twice. It's consuming
power
overnight - presumably the alarm - I've actually measured up to 4
amps
(randomly, sometimes it consumes nothing) coming off the battery
with a
meter when all the fuses are pulled.

Sounds more like a wiring fault. An alarm shouldnt
ever take anything like that when its not sounding.

But if it's broken....

There is no fault in an alarm that would produce a result like that.

I don't know enough about alarms to disagree, but couldn't it be
sounding
the alarm without noise as something is broken?

Nope. Its the sound that takes the current.
It if isnt sounding, there isnt the current.

It's never tried to prevent me starting the engine though.

Yeah, it wont be an alarm fault.

Can be a real bugger to find if its a pinched wire somewhere if it
isnt
obvious where a wire can be pinched like at one of the doors etc.

Surely a physical short like that would just burn out eventually..

Nope, 4A isnt enough to do that.

I can't see a loose wire doing that.

Its not a loose wire, its a wire jammed between two
pieces of metal with an edge cutting thru the insulation.

At some point it will either burn itself

Not with 4A it wont.

or a fuse.

It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

If you can somehow rig up something that allows you to
see or hear the current draw, or have someone else watch
the meter, you may be able to see if its a door by doing
that and operating the doors.

I've only ever seen it by leaving a multimeter connected with a maximum
function running. Car sat perfectly still, it just does it sometimes
overnight.

Yeah, you really need a proper data logger. Not expensive.

Not spending money on stuff for one little purpose like that. And I can't see it would tell me anything, apart from "it happened at 5am".

And that would allow you to see which door is the problem
too if it is one of the doors pinching a cable as its closed.

What makes you think it's a door? It happens randomly overnight when nothing has been moved.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:55:20 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:31:05 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 23:43:38 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 22:30:05 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:03:33 +0100, Xeno
wrote:

On 23/6/19 5:43 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:08:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:55:03 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:14:07 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

No news to me, boy.

He's probably as old as you.

He isnt.

I've met Bod and he's (I'm about to insult him most likely)
very
very
old
indeed. I'd have to guess 80 to 90.

Thats just the furious drunken grave dancing and flagrant drug
abuse.

Smoking does make your face more wrinkly, but I'm sure he told me
his
age once.

For some reason I've always assumed you're about 70.

You're still wrong.

What is your age then?

And back on topic, I just bought a 16 amp 13.8V power supply,
that
ought
to keep the bloody frog car charged up. It's currently maxing
out
my
2.5A supply all night, and still not starting in the morning..

That's telling you your battery is knackered. Try a high rate
discharge
test on it. You will see it fall over very quickly.

Wrong yet again. I've changed the battery twice. It's consuming
power
overnight - presumably the alarm - I've actually measured up to 4
amps
(randomly, sometimes it consumes nothing) coming off the battery
with
a
meter when all the fuses are pulled.

Sounds more like a wiring fault. An alarm shouldnt
ever take anything like that when its not sounding.

But if it's broken....

There is no fault in an alarm that would produce a result like that.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:03:17 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:31:05 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

How long does the 4A last for ?

It can flatten the (new 50Ah) battery overnight.

Sure, but I was wondering if it was 4A all night or just in bursts.
You really need a proper data logger to see that, but just visual
inspection of the multimeter might be enough.

After more thought, I'd be checking the electric window switches
if its got electric windows.

Bugger, can't be that because no fuses should stop that
unless the stupid frog car doesnt fuse those windows.

Do you say "bugger" with this accent?
https://youtu.be/CPYmtEQiG18

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:31:44 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 01:20:46 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 23:43:38 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 22:30:05 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:03:33 +0100, Xeno

wrote:

On 23/6/19 5:43 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:08:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:55:03 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:14:07 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

No news to me, boy.

He's probably as old as you.

He isnt.

I've met Bod and he's (I'm about to insult him most likely)
very
very
old
indeed. I'd have to guess 80 to 90.

Thats just the furious drunken grave dancing and flagrant
drug
abuse.

Smoking does make your face more wrinkly, but I'm sure he told
me
his
age once.

For some reason I've always assumed you're about 70.

You're still wrong.

What is your age then?

And back on topic, I just bought a 16 amp 13.8V power supply,
that
ought
to keep the bloody frog car charged up. It's currently maxing
out
my
2.5A supply all night, and still not starting in the morning.

That's telling you your battery is knackered. Try a high rate
discharge
test on it. You will see it fall over very quickly.

Wrong yet again. I've changed the battery twice. It's
consuming
power
overnight - presumably the alarm - I've actually measured up to
4
amps
(randomly, sometimes it consumes nothing) coming off the battery
with a
meter when all the fuses are pulled.

Sounds more like a wiring fault. An alarm shouldnt
ever take anything like that when its not sounding.

But if it's broken....

There is no fault in an alarm that would produce a result like that.

I don't know enough about alarms to disagree, but couldn't it be
sounding
the alarm without noise as something is broken?

Nope. Its the sound that takes the current.
It if isnt sounding, there isnt the current.

It's never tried to prevent me starting the engine though.

Yeah, it wont be an alarm fault.

Can be a real bugger to find if its a pinched wire somewhere if
it
isnt
obvious where a wire can be pinched like at one of the doors etc.

Surely a physical short like that would just burn out eventually.

Nope, 4A isnt enough to do that.

I can't see a loose wire doing that.

Its not a loose wire, its a wire jammed between two
pieces of metal with an edge cutting thru the insulation.

At some point it will either burn itself

Not with 4A it wont.

or a fuse.

It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

If you can somehow rig up something that allows you to
see or hear the current draw, or have someone else watch
the meter, you may be able to see if its a door by doing
that and operating the doors.

I've only ever seen it by leaving a multimeter connected with a maximum
function running. Car sat perfectly still, it just does it sometimes
overnight.

Yeah, you really need a proper data logger. Not expensive.

Not spending money on stuff for one little purpose like that.

But you did with the charger to kludge around the fault.
And you should be able to flog it for about what you paid
for it once it has fixed the problem.

And I can't see it would tell me anything, apart from "it happened at
5am".

When it happens and the detail of how it happens
may well allow you to work out what is causing the
flattening of the battery overnight and fix the problem.

And that would allow you to see which door is the problem
too if it is one of the doors pinching a cable as its closed.

What makes you think it's a door?

Its the most obvious way to pinch a cable.

It happens randomly overnight when nothing has been moved.

But the change in the metal around the door may well
happen as the ambient temperature changes overnight.

On 12/07/2019 14:37, TMS320 wrote:
On 12/07/2019 07:56, Daniel60 wrote:
Daniel60 wrote on 11/07/2019 7:09 PM:

Do Electric Cars have a 'standard' operating voltage?? Or does it
vary from one manufacturer to another??

Ah!! Good to read there is consistency ...... *NOT* !! ;-P
Â*More volts requires more cells. Better to standardise on the size of a
cell, set a maximum operating current and alter the number of cells
according to cost/power requirements.

Better still, standardised voltage and standardised packs where a small
town car may use one, while a larger, longer range car may use two or
three. Make the packs so they can be slid in or out - it doesn't matter
if each car puts them in at different locations, in different directions
or around different obstructions - and "battery stations" could use
robot arms, pre-programmed for all different models, to swap out
discharged batteries for fully charged ones. The service paid for at a
fixed sum, plus a rate for the increase in charge level.

That makes recharging an electric vehicle as fast as a petrol or diesel
one from the driver's point of view and ensures that failing batteries
are removed from circulation, with the cost spread amongst all drivers
rather than an individual being hit by a high fee.

It would also mean that as battery technology improved, all cars would
benefit, not just the latest model.

SteveW

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:55:20 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:31:05 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 23:43:38 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 22:30:05 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:03:33 +0100, Xeno

wrote:

On 23/6/19 5:43 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:08:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:55:03 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:14:07 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

No news to me, boy.

He's probably as old as you.

He isnt.

I've met Bod and he's (I'm about to insult him most likely)
very
very
old
indeed. I'd have to guess 80 to 90.

Thats just the furious drunken grave dancing and flagrant
drug
abuse.

Smoking does make your face more wrinkly, but I'm sure he told
me
his
age once.

For some reason I've always assumed you're about 70.

You're still wrong.

What is your age then?

And back on topic, I just bought a 16 amp 13.8V power supply,
that
ought
to keep the bloody frog car charged up. It's currently maxing
out
my
2.5A supply all night, and still not starting in the morning.

That's telling you your battery is knackered. Try a high rate
discharge
test on it. You will see it fall over very quickly.

Wrong yet again. I've changed the battery twice. It's consuming
power
overnight - presumably the alarm - I've actually measured up to 4
amps
(randomly, sometimes it consumes nothing) coming off the battery
with
a
meter when all the fuses are pulled.

Sounds more like a wiring fault. An alarm shouldnt
ever take anything like that when its not sounding.

But if it's broken....

There is no fault in an alarm that would produce a result like that.

I don't know enough about alarms to disagree, but couldn't it be
sounding
the alarm without noise as something is broken?

Nope. Its the sound that takes the current.
It if isnt sounding, there isnt the current.

A speaker with a short?

They normally use the car horn and you should be able
to check that that still works.

It does, I hoot at arseholes regularly. But I've not heard a car use the
horn for an alarm since about the early 90s,

My 2006 Hyundai Getz does, because its the loudest thing in any car.

and that was on a Morris Marina which had had one fitted aftermarket and
just borrowed the horn. They all make higher pitched noises now.

But those dont take the same current when they have failed
and there is no evidence that the alarm is being triggered
either. If it was, it wouldnt let you start it normally.

And if it was the alarm, that should stop the car being started next
morning and you have said it does allow you to start fine.

The reason I suspect the alarm is it can use power when all fuses are
pulled.

But there is plenty of other stuff which still works with the fuses pulled.

If you played your stereo into a shorted speaker, it would consume a
fair bit of power.

Its very unlikely to have a speaker for that even in a frog car.

As above, no car uses the horn nowadays.

Mine does.

You have heard an alarm sounding?

Yep, I have managed to set mine off when the seatbelt
didnt retract fully and I slammed the door on the
buckle tong do the door didnt close properly.

They make high pitched wails like house alarms.

Mine doesnt. And there is no evidence that your alarm
is being triggered even with a false alarm because you
can start the car normally in the morning as you said.

And those sounders dont take the same current when they
have failed and are silent when the alarm is going off.

And you can trivially test that yours still
works by deliberately triggering the alarm.

It's never tried to prevent me starting the engine though.

Yeah, it wont be an alarm fault.

Can be a real bugger to find if its a pinched wire somewhere if it
isnt
obvious where a wire can be pinched like at one of the doors etc.

Surely a physical short like that would just burn out eventually.

Nope, 4A isnt enough to do that.

I can't see a loose wire doing that.

Its not a loose wire, its a wire jammed between two
pieces of metal with an edge cutting thru the insulation.

At some point it will either burn itself

Not with 4A it wont.

I would have thought a wire severed as you stated

I didnt say severed, I said pinched. The insulation pierced by the
metal edge with the conductor then shorted to the body of the car.

would use more than 4A.

Depends on the gauge of the wire and so the resistance
and how good the contact between the conductor and
the car body is.

Either that or part of it would become hot enough to stop being there
and
shorting.

4A thru the car body isnt going to get hot.

But the heat is in the area of the highest resistance, the point of
contact with the wire,

That isnt the point of highest resistance with a pinched wire.

so that bit burns out.

Nope, you are talking about arcing, not a pinched wire.

or a fuse.

It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

Which means it has to be quite a heavy guage wire,

Nope, it may well be a relatively light gauge
wire and thats why it self limits at 4A.

No, the only wires connected before the fusebox supply the whole fusebox,
so are heavy guage.

The wires that go to the stuff in the door arent heavy gauge.

so a low amperage seems odd.

Not when it self limits at that when pinched.

Guess it could also be a failing electric window switch.
Electric windows do have limit switches for obvious
reasons and they do take something like 4A when
driving against the limit switch until you stop pressing
the button because you see the window at the limit.

Presumably it does have electric windows.

Yes it does, but the fault occurs with the fuse for the windows removed.

It's been doing it for 3 years. 4A at 12V is 48 watts, a lot of
power.
Think how hot a 48W bulb gets.

Thats with the entire 48W being dissipated in the
very small filament. With a pinched wire, thats
mostly going thru the metal of the car body.

Surely most heat would be where the resistance is highest, at the pinch.

Nope, not with a decent pinch.

A decent pinch would take more than 4A.

You dont know that it is a decent pinch.

How long does the 4A last for ?

It can flatten the (new 50Ah) battery overnight.

Sure, but I was wondering if it was 4A all night or just in bursts.
You really need a proper data logger to see that, but just visual
inspection of the multimeter might be enough.

It's not continuously, as I've never seen it happen while I'm watching the
meter.

Which presumably means that the car need
to cool down overnight to see it happen.

After more thought, I'd be checking the electric window switches
if its got electric windows.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:02:36 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:31:44 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 01:20:46 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

If you can somehow rig up something that allows you to
see or hear the current draw, or have someone else watch
the meter, you may be able to see if its a door by doing
that and operating the doors.

I've only ever seen it by leaving a multimeter connected with a maximum
function running. Car sat perfectly still, it just does it sometimes
overnight.

Yeah, you really need a proper data logger. Not expensive.

Not spending money on stuff for one little purpose like that.

But you did with the charger to kludge around the fault.

A 13.8V 15A power supply is very useful for all sorts.

And you should be able to flog it for about what you paid
for it once it has fixed the problem.

Too much hassle and I lose postage and Ebay fees etc. Only time I've bothered "renting" something like that was a top of the range slide scanner for a large amount of 35mm slides I wanted digitised.

And I can't see it would tell me anything, apart from "it happened at
5am".

When it happens and the detail of how it happens
may well allow you to work out what is causing the
flattening of the battery overnight and fix the problem.

What can it tell me apart from the time of night it did it?

And that would allow you to see which door is the problem
too if it is one of the doors pinching a cable as its closed.

What makes you think it's a door?

Its the most obvious way to pinch a cable.

Actually I've just had an ABS wire fixed that had been damaged by the handbrake.

It happens randomly overnight when nothing has been moved.

But the change in the metal around the door may well
happen as the ambient temperature changes overnight.

I won't know which door from the reading from the data logger.

On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 03:31:44 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH another 160 !!! lines of the two sick idiots' endless sick blather

--
Keema Nam addressing nym-shifting senile Rodent:
"You are now exposed as a liar, as well as an ignorant troll."
"MID: .com"

....and much better air in here, again!

--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

....and nothing's left!

--
dennis@home to know-it-all Rot Speed:
"You really should stop commenting on things you know nothing about."
Message-ID:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:03:17 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:31:05 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

How long does the 4A last for ?

It can flatten the (new 50Ah) battery overnight.

Sure, but I was wondering if it was 4A all night or just in bursts.
You really need a proper data logger to see that, but just visual
inspection of the multimeter might be enough.

After more thought, I'd be checking the electric window switches
if its got electric windows.

Bugger, can't be that because no fuses should stop that
unless the stupid frog car doesnt fuse those windows.

Do you say "bugger" with this accent?
https://youtu.be/CPYmtEQiG18

Pretty close with the blokes. Nothing like the women and
I never say bugger me with you bloody poms around.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:25:05 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:55:20 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:31:05 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 23:43:38 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 22:30:05 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:03:33 +0100, Xeno

wrote:

On 23/6/19 5:43 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:08:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:55:03 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:14:07 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

No news to me, boy.

He's probably as old as you.

He isnt.

I've met Bod and he's (I'm about to insult him most likely)
very
very
old
indeed. I'd have to guess 80 to 90.

Thats just the furious drunken grave dancing and flagrant
drug
abuse.

Smoking does make your face more wrinkly, but I'm sure he told
me
his
age once.

For some reason I've always assumed you're about 70.

You're still wrong.

What is your age then?

And back on topic, I just bought a 16 amp 13.8V power supply,
that
ought
to keep the bloody frog car charged up. It's currently maxing
out
my
2.5A supply all night, and still not starting in the morning.

That's telling you your battery is knackered. Try a high rate
discharge
test on it. You will see it fall over very quickly.

Wrong yet again. I've changed the battery twice. It's consuming
power
overnight - presumably the alarm - I've actually measured up to 4
amps
(randomly, sometimes it consumes nothing) coming off the battery
with
a
meter when all the fuses are pulled.

Sounds more like a wiring fault. An alarm shouldnt
ever take anything like that when its not sounding.

But if it's broken....

There is no fault in an alarm that would produce a result like that.

I don't know enough about alarms to disagree, but couldn't it be
sounding
the alarm without noise as something is broken?

Nope. Its the sound that takes the current.
It if isnt sounding, there isnt the current.

A speaker with a short?

They normally use the car horn and you should be able
to check that that still works.

It does, I hoot at arseholes regularly. But I've not heard a car use the
horn for an alarm since about the early 90s,

My 2006 Hyundai Getz does, because its the loudest thing in any car.

Loudest by what measure? Maybe more watts, but the human ear will notice high pitched wails more.

and that was on a Morris Marina which had had one fitted aftermarket and
just borrowed the horn. They all make higher pitched noises now.

But those dont take the same current when they have failed

Dunno, I've never analyzed a failed alarm sounder.

and there is no evidence that the alarm is being triggered
either. If it was, it wouldnt let you start it normally.

True.

And if it was the alarm, that should stop the car being started next
morning and you have said it does allow you to start fine.

The reason I suspect the alarm is it can use power when all fuses are
pulled.

But there is plenty of other stuff which still works with the fuses pulled.

Like what? The alarm doesn't run off an accessible fusebox to prevent the theif from pulling the fuse.

If you played your stereo into a shorted speaker, it would consume a
fair bit of power.

Its very unlikely to have a speaker for that even in a frog car.

As above, no car uses the horn nowadays.

Mine does.

But yours is cheap ****.

You have heard an alarm sounding?

Yep, I have managed to set mine off when the seatbelt
didnt retract fully

I don't have that problem as I never use it.

and I slammed the door on the
buckle tong do the door didnt close properly.

Why on earth would that sound the alarm? The door wasn't closed properly as you locked it up. It should be detecting changes later on.

They make high pitched wails like house alarms.

Mine doesnt. And there is no evidence that your alarm
is being triggered even with a false alarm because you
can start the car normally in the morning as you said.

And those sounders dont take the same current when they
have failed and are silent when the alarm is going off.

And you can trivially test that yours still
works by deliberately triggering the alarm.

Not sure how to make my alarm trigger.

It's never tried to prevent me starting the engine though.

Yeah, it wont be an alarm fault.

Can be a real bugger to find if its a pinched wire somewhere if it
isnt
obvious where a wire can be pinched like at one of the doors etc.

Surely a physical short like that would just burn out eventually.

Nope, 4A isnt enough to do that.

I can't see a loose wire doing that.

Its not a loose wire, its a wire jammed between two
pieces of metal with an edge cutting thru the insulation.

At some point it will either burn itself

Not with 4A it wont.

I would have thought a wire severed as you stated

I didnt say severed, I said pinched. The insulation pierced by the
metal edge with the conductor then shorted to the body of the car.

would use more than 4A.

Depends on the gauge of the wire and so the resistance
and how good the contact between the conductor and
the car body is.

Either that or part of it would become hot enough to stop being there
and
shorting.

4A thru the car body isnt going to get hot.

But the heat is in the area of the highest resistance, the point of
contact with the wire,

That isnt the point of highest resistance with a pinched wire.

Of course it is. If it wasn't then you'd get a huge current, whatever the wire could take, which should blow a fuse.

so that bit burns out.

Nope, you are talking about arcing, not a pinched wire.

I'm talking about a current flowing through one or two of the strands of wire.

or a fuse.

It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

Which means it has to be quite a heavy guage wire,

Nope, it may well be a relatively light gauge
wire and thats why it self limits at 4A.

No, the only wires connected before the fusebox supply the whole fusebox,
so are heavy guage.

The wires that go to the stuff in the door arent heavy gauge.

Those are after the fusebox.

so a low amperage seems odd.

Not when it self limits at that when pinched.

Guess it could also be a failing electric window switch.
Electric windows do have limit switches for obvious
reasons and they do take something like 4A when
driving against the limit switch until you stop pressing
the button because you see the window at the limit.

Presumably it does have electric windows.

Yes it does, but the fault occurs with the fuse for the windows removed.

It's been doing it for 3 years. 4A at 12V is 48 watts, a lot of
power.
Think how hot a 48W bulb gets.

Thats with the entire 48W being dissipated in the
very small filament. With a pinched wire, thats
mostly going thru the metal of the car body.

Surely most heat would be where the resistance is highest, at the pinch.

Nope, not with a decent pinch.

A decent pinch would take more than 4A.

You dont know that it is a decent pinch.

A poor pinch would make bad contact and burn out a few strands of wire.

How long does the 4A last for ?

It can flatten the (new 50Ah) battery overnight.

Sure, but I was wondering if it was 4A all night or just in bursts.
You really need a proper data logger to see that, but just visual
inspection of the multimeter might be enough.

It's not continuously, as I've never seen it happen while I'm watching the
meter.

Which presumably means that the car need
to cool down overnight to see it happen.

Now I have it on a charger, I have actually seen it take a high current just after stopping the car, with the engine warm. It's purely random. The only thing I've seen that seems to stop it is starting the car for a few seconds.

After more thought, I'd be checking the electric window switches
if its got electric windows.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:39:25 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:03:17 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:31:05 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:

How long does the 4A last for ?

It can flatten the (new 50Ah) battery overnight.

Sure, but I was wondering if it was 4A all night or just in bursts.
You really need a proper data logger to see that, but just visual
inspection of the multimeter might be enough.

After more thought, I'd be checking the electric window switches
if its got electric windows.

Bugger, can't be that because no fuses should stop that
unless the stupid frog car doesnt fuse those windows.

Do you say "bugger" with this accent?
https://youtu.be/CPYmtEQiG18

Pretty close with the blokes.

Ah, so you're a country bumpkin then.

Nothing like the women

ROFL!

and I never say bugger me with you bloody poms around.

Do you for some reason believe there's a higher percentage of homosexuals in the UK?

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:02:36 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:31:44 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 01:20:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

If you can somehow rig up something that allows you to
see or hear the current draw, or have someone else watch
the meter, you may be able to see if its a door by doing
that and operating the doors.

I've only ever seen it by leaving a multimeter connected with a
maximum
function running. Car sat perfectly still, it just does it sometimes
overnight.

Yeah, you really need a proper data logger. Not expensive.

Not spending money on stuff for one little purpose like that.

But you did with the charger to kludge around the fault.

A 13.8V 15A power supply is very useful for all sorts.

And you should be able to flog it for about what you paid
for it once it has fixed the problem.

Too much hassle and I lose postage and Ebay fees etc. Only time I've
bothered "renting" something like that was a top of the range slide
scanner for a large amount of 35mm slides I wanted digitised.

And I can't see it would tell me anything, apart from "it happened at
5am".

When it happens and the detail of how it happens
may well allow you to work out what is causing the
flattening of the battery overnight and fix the problem.

What can it tell me apart from the time of night it did it?

How long that high current lasted for. That would definitively
distinguish between the alarm being triggered and eventually
timing out and a pinched wire which would have quite
different timing, particular over different nights.

And that would allow you to see which door is the problem
too if it is one of the doors pinching a cable as its closed.

What makes you think it's a door?

Its the most obvious way to pinch a cable.

Actually I've just had an ABS wire fixed that had been damaged by the
handbrake.

Sure, I didnt say its the only one. And that one wouldnt
be fused either. Neither would the airbag triggers.

It happens randomly overnight when nothing has been moved.

But the change in the metal around the door may well
happen as the ambient temperature changes overnight.

I won't know which door from the reading from the data logger.

Yes you would from when you opened and closed a particular door.
And you could do the other movable stuff like the bonnet, boot,
hand brake etc too.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:25:05 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:55:20 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:31:05 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 23:43:38 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Thu, 11 Jul 2019 22:30:05 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Sun, 23 Jun 2019 07:03:33 +0100, Xeno

wrote:

On 23/6/19 5:43 am, Commander Kinsey wrote:
On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 20:08:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:55:03 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in
message
news On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 19:14:07 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

No news to me, boy.

He's probably as old as you.

He isnt.

I've met Bod and he's (I'm about to insult him most likely)
very
very
old
indeed. I'd have to guess 80 to 90.

Thats just the furious drunken grave dancing and flagrant
drug
abuse.

Smoking does make your face more wrinkly, but I'm sure he
told
me
his
age once.

For some reason I've always assumed you're about 70.

You're still wrong.

What is your age then?

And back on topic, I just bought a 16 amp 13.8V power supply,
that
ought
to keep the bloody frog car charged up. It's currently
maxing
out
my
2.5A supply all night, and still not starting in the morning.

That's telling you your battery is knackered. Try a high rate
discharge
test on it. You will see it fall over very quickly.

Wrong yet again. I've changed the battery twice. It's
consuming
power
overnight - presumably the alarm - I've actually measured up to
4
amps
(randomly, sometimes it consumes nothing) coming off the
battery
with
a
meter when all the fuses are pulled.

Sounds more like a wiring fault. An alarm shouldnt
ever take anything like that when its not sounding.

But if it's broken....

There is no fault in an alarm that would produce a result like
that.

I don't know enough about alarms to disagree, but couldn't it be
sounding
the alarm without noise as something is broken?

Nope. Its the sound that takes the current.
It if isnt sounding, there isnt the current.

A speaker with a short?

They normally use the car horn and you should be able
to check that that still works.

It does, I hoot at arseholes regularly. But I've not heard a car use
the
horn for an alarm since about the early 90s,

My 2006 Hyundai Getz does, because its the loudest thing in any car.

Loudest by what measure?

How obvious it is that the alarm is going off.

Maybe more watts, but the human ear will notice high pitched wails more.

Must be why all car horns have been replaced by high pitched wails.

and that was on a Morris Marina which had had one fitted aftermarket and
just borrowed the horn. They all make higher pitched noises now.

But those dont take the same current when they have failed

Dunno, I've never analyzed a failed alarm sounder.

I know how they work.

and there is no evidence that the alarm is being triggered
either. If it was, it wouldnt let you start it normally.

True.

And if it was the alarm, that should stop the car being started next
morning and you have said it does allow you to start fine.

The reason I suspect the alarm is it can use power when all fuses are
pulled.

But there is plenty of other stuff which still works with the fuses
pulled.

Like what?

Like the safety systems and the ECM and the starter.

The alarm doesn't run off an accessible fusebox to prevent the theif from
pulling the fuse.

But has an internal fuse so the car doesnt go
up in flames when the alarm system fails badly.

If you played your stereo into a shorted speaker, it would consume a
fair bit of power.

Its very unlikely to have a speaker for that even in a frog car.

As above, no car uses the horn nowadays.

Mine does.

But yours is cheap ****.

Wrong, as always.

You have heard an alarm sounding?

Yep, I have managed to set mine off when the seatbelt
didnt retract fully

I don't have that problem as I never use it.

I'm not that stupid even if you are.

and I slammed the door on the
buckle tong do the door didnt close properly.

Why on earth would that sound the alarm?

The car got got confused when it decided that the
door had closed and then opened again because
the latch couldnt grab the bit it normally grabs.

The door wasn't closed properly as you locked it up. It should be
detecting changes later on.

Too expensive and unreliable to monitor the lock mechanism itself.

They make high pitched wails like house alarms.

Mine doesnt. And there is no evidence that your alarm
is being triggered even with a false alarm because you
can start the car normally in the morning as you said.

And those sounders dont take the same current when they
have failed and are silent when the alarm is going off.

And you can trivially test that yours still
works by deliberately triggering the alarm.

Not sure how to make my alarm trigger.

Should be visible on youtube.

It's never tried to prevent me starting the engine though.

Yeah, it wont be an alarm fault.

Can be a real bugger to find if its a pinched wire somewhere if
it
isnt
obvious where a wire can be pinched like at one of the doors etc.

Surely a physical short like that would just burn out eventually.

Nope, 4A isnt enough to do that.

I can't see a loose wire doing that.

Its not a loose wire, its a wire jammed between two
pieces of metal with an edge cutting thru the insulation.

At some point it will either burn itself

Not with 4A it wont.

I would have thought a wire severed as you stated

I didnt say severed, I said pinched. The insulation pierced by the
metal edge with the conductor then shorted to the body of the car.

would use more than 4A.

Depends on the gauge of the wire and so the resistance
and how good the contact between the conductor and
the car body is.

Either that or part of it would become hot enough to stop being there
and
shorting.

4A thru the car body isnt going to get hot.

But the heat is in the area of the highest resistance, the point of
contact with the wire,

That isnt the point of highest resistance with a pinched wire.

Of course it is.

No it isnt.

If it wasn't then you'd get a huge current, whatever the wire could take,

Which isnt necessarily all that much with a sensor or switch wire.

which should blow a fuse.

Not when there are only a limited number of fuses with
most of the switches and sensors on a fuse or two.

so that bit burns out.

Nope, you are talking about arcing, not a pinched wire.

I'm talking about a current flowing through one or two of the strands of
wire.

Thats not necessarily going to be more than 4A with
a switch or sensor wire and plenty of stuff isnt fused
in the fuse box in a car.

or a fuse.

It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

Which means it has to be quite a heavy guage wire,

Nope, it may well be a relatively light gauge
wire and thats why it self limits at 4A.

No, the only wires connected before the fusebox supply the whole
fusebox,
so are heavy guage.

The wires that go to the stuff in the door arent heavy gauge.

Those are after the fusebox.

You dont know that with a frog car.

so a low amperage seems odd.

Not when it self limits at that when pinched.

Guess it could also be a failing electric window switch.
Electric windows do have limit switches for obvious
reasons and they do take something like 4A when
driving against the limit switch until you stop pressing
the button because you see the window at the limit.

Presumably it does have electric windows.

Yes it does, but the fault occurs with the fuse for the windows removed.

It's been doing it for 3 years. 4A at 12V is 48 watts, a lot of
power.
Think how hot a 48W bulb gets.

Thats with the entire 48W being dissipated in the
very small filament. With a pinched wire, thats
mostly going thru the metal of the car body.

Surely most heat would be where the resistance is highest, at the
pinch.

Nope, not with a decent pinch.

A decent pinch would take more than 4A.

You dont know that it is a decent pinch.

A poor pinch would make bad contact and burn out a few strands of wire.

Wrong, as always.

How long does the 4A last for ?

It can flatten the (new 50Ah) battery overnight.

Sure, but I was wondering if it was 4A all night or just in bursts.
You really need a proper data logger to see that, but just visual
inspection of the multimeter might be enough.

It's not continuously, as I've never seen it happen while I'm watching
the
meter.

Which presumably means that the car need
to cool down overnight to see it happen.

Now I have it on a charger, I have actually seen it take a high current
just after stopping the car, with the engine warm.

It's purely random.

Unlikely.

The only thing I've seen that seems to stop it is starting the car for a
few seconds.

So it wont be the alarm.

After more thought, I'd be checking the electric window switches
if its got electric windows.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:52:51 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:02:36 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:31:44 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 01:20:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

If you can somehow rig up something that allows you to
see or hear the current draw, or have someone else watch
the meter, you may be able to see if its a door by doing
that and operating the doors.

I've only ever seen it by leaving a multimeter connected with a
maximum
function running. Car sat perfectly still, it just does it sometimes
overnight.

Yeah, you really need a proper data logger. Not expensive.

Not spending money on stuff for one little purpose like that.

But you did with the charger to kludge around the fault.

A 13.8V 15A power supply is very useful for all sorts.

And you should be able to flog it for about what you paid
for it once it has fixed the problem.

Too much hassle and I lose postage and Ebay fees etc. Only time I've
bothered "renting" something like that was a top of the range slide
scanner for a large amount of 35mm slides I wanted digitised.

And I can't see it would tell me anything, apart from "it happened at
5am".

When it happens and the detail of how it happens
may well allow you to work out what is causing the
flattening of the battery overnight and fix the problem.

What can it tell me apart from the time of night it did it?

How long that high current lasted for. That would definitively
distinguish between the alarm being triggered and eventually
timing out and a pinched wire which would have quite
different timing, particular over different nights.

I know it's a long time as it can flatten the battery.

And that would allow you to see which door is the problem
too if it is one of the doors pinching a cable as its closed.

What makes you think it's a door?

Its the most obvious way to pinch a cable.

Actually I've just had an ABS wire fixed that had been damaged by the
handbrake.

Sure, I didnt say its the only one. And that one wouldnt
be fused either. Neither would the airbag triggers.

Airbags certainly are fused. I know people who have taken the fuse out.

It happens randomly overnight when nothing has been moved.

But the change in the metal around the door may well
happen as the ambient temperature changes overnight.

I won't know which door from the reading from the data logger.

Yes you would from when you opened and closed a particular door.
And you could do the other movable stuff like the bonnet, boot,
hand brake etc too.

Not with a that intermittent fault.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:39:25 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:03:17 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:31:05 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

How long does the 4A last for ?

It can flatten the (new 50Ah) battery overnight.

Sure, but I was wondering if it was 4A all night or just in bursts.
You really need a proper data logger to see that, but just visual
inspection of the multimeter might be enough.

After more thought, I'd be checking the electric window switches
if its got electric windows.

Bugger, can't be that because no fuses should stop that
unless the stupid frog car doesnt fuse those windows.

Do you say "bugger" with this accent?
https://youtu.be/CPYmtEQiG18

Pretty close with the blokes.

Ah, so you're a country bumpkin then.

Nope, only the immigrants and ******s dont say it like that.

Nothing like the women

ROFL!

and I never say bugger me with you bloody poms around.

Do you for some reason believe there's a higher percentage of homosexuals
in the UK?

Thats a known fact. Have fun listing anywhere else thats got a higher
percentage.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 21:20:38 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:39:25 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:03:17 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:31:05 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

How long does the 4A last for ?

It can flatten the (new 50Ah) battery overnight.

Sure, but I was wondering if it was 4A all night or just in bursts.
You really need a proper data logger to see that, but just visual
inspection of the multimeter might be enough.

After more thought, I'd be checking the electric window switches
if its got electric windows.

Bugger, can't be that because no fuses should stop that
unless the stupid frog car doesnt fuse those windows.

Do you say "bugger" with this accent?
https://youtu.be/CPYmtEQiG18

Pretty close with the blokes.

Ah, so you're a country bumpkin then.

Nope, only the immigrants and ******s dont say it like that.

The stronger the accent, the lower the intelligence.

Nothing like the women

ROFL!

and I never say bugger me with you bloody poms around.

Do you for some reason believe there's a higher percentage of homosexuals
in the UK?

Thats a known fact. Have fun listing anywhere else thats got a higher
percentage.

Cite. I'd think it's pretty much the same throughout the world, although they won't admit it in Arab countries or they get stoned.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:52:51 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:02:36 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:31:44 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 01:20:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

If you can somehow rig up something that allows you to
see or hear the current draw, or have someone else watch
the meter, you may be able to see if its a door by doing
that and operating the doors.

I've only ever seen it by leaving a multimeter connected with a
maximum
function running. Car sat perfectly still, it just does it
sometimes
overnight.

Yeah, you really need a proper data logger. Not expensive.

Not spending money on stuff for one little purpose like that.

But you did with the charger to kludge around the fault.

A 13.8V 15A power supply is very useful for all sorts.

And you should be able to flog it for about what you paid
for it once it has fixed the problem.

Too much hassle and I lose postage and Ebay fees etc. Only time I've
bothered "renting" something like that was a top of the range slide
scanner for a large amount of 35mm slides I wanted digitised.

And I can't see it would tell me anything, apart from "it happened at
5am".

When it happens and the detail of how it happens
may well allow you to work out what is causing the
flattening of the battery overnight and fix the problem.

What can it tell me apart from the time of night it did it?

How long that high current lasted for. That would definitively
distinguish between the alarm being triggered and eventually
timing out and a pinched wire which would have quite
different timing, particular over different nights.

I know it's a long time as it can flatten the battery.

But you dont know if its continuous when it happens
or intermittent. If it was intermittent and regular it
could well be the alarm triggering, then timing out,
the triggering again and then timing out again etc.

You wouldnt normally get that with a pinched wire.

And that would allow you to see which door is the problem
too if it is one of the doors pinching a cable as its closed.

What makes you think it's a door?

Its the most obvious way to pinch a cable.

Actually I've just had an ABS wire fixed that had been damaged by the
handbrake.

Sure, I didnt say its the only one. And that one wouldnt
be fused either. Neither would the airbag triggers.

Airbags certainly are fused.

Mine arent.

I know people who have taken the fuse out.

But you dont know its fused in your steaming turd with wheels.

It happens randomly overnight when nothing has been moved.

But the change in the metal around the door may well
happen as the ambient temperature changes overnight.

I won't know which door from the reading from the data logger.

Yes you would from when you opened and closed a particular door.
And you could do the other movable stuff like the bonnet, boot,
hand brake etc too.

Not with a that intermittent fault.

If you do see the 4A current, you will know that door or other
thing like a handbrake did it if its only seen with that door and
it would be trivial to only exercise that door etc once you first
see that it happens with that door to get it to happen again
even if it only does that intermittently.

....and much better air in here, again!

--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

..
--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 05:39:25 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the two clinically insane cretins' endless absolutely idiotic
bull****

--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 06:20:38 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the two sociopathic cretins' absolutely idiotic bull**** unread
again

--
addressing nym-shifting senile Rodent:
"You on the other hand are a heavyweight bull****ter who demonstrates
your particular prowess at it every day."
MID:

....and nothing's left!

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

Don't tell me you STILL hope you might win this game, my senile Australian
punching bag! LMAO

--
Marland answering senile Rodent's statement, "I don't leak":
"That¢s because so much **** and ****e emanates from your gob that there is
nothing left to exit normally, your arsehole has clammed shut through disuse
and the end of prick is only clear because you are such a ******."
Message-ID:

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 21:20:38 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:39:25 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:03:17 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:31:05 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

How long does the 4A last for ?

It can flatten the (new 50Ah) battery overnight.

Sure, but I was wondering if it was 4A all night or just in bursts.
You really need a proper data logger to see that, but just visual
inspection of the multimeter might be enough.

After more thought, I'd be checking the electric window switches
if its got electric windows.

Bugger, can't be that because no fuses should stop that
unless the stupid frog car doesnt fuse those windows.

Do you say "bugger" with this accent?
https://youtu.be/CPYmtEQiG18

Pretty close with the blokes.

Ah, so you're a country bumpkin then.

Nope, only the immigrants and ******s dont say it like that.

The stronger the accent, the lower the intelligence.

Even sillier than you usually manage and thats saying something.

Adam has one of the stronger accents in here
and is one of the most intelligent anyway.

Nothing like the women

ROFL!

and I never say bugger me with you bloody poms around.

Do you for some reason believe there's a higher percentage of
homosexuals
in the UK?

Thats a known fact. Have fun listing anywhere else thats got a higher
percentage.

Cite. I'd think it's pretty much the same throughout the world,

More fool you.

although they won't admit it in Arab countries or they get stoned.

On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 06:28:01 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the endless troll****

....and nothing's left!

--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

On Sat, 13 Jul 2019 06:46:58 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH another load of TROLL****

....and much better air in here again!

--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rot Speed:
"You can **** off as you know less than pig **** you sad
little ignorant ****."
MID:

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 21:28:01 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:52:51 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:02:36 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:31:44 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 01:20:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

If you can somehow rig up something that allows you to
see or hear the current draw, or have someone else watch
the meter, you may be able to see if its a door by doing
that and operating the doors.

I've only ever seen it by leaving a multimeter connected with a
maximum
function running. Car sat perfectly still, it just does it
sometimes
overnight.

Yeah, you really need a proper data logger. Not expensive.

Not spending money on stuff for one little purpose like that.

But you did with the charger to kludge around the fault.

A 13.8V 15A power supply is very useful for all sorts.

And you should be able to flog it for about what you paid
for it once it has fixed the problem.

Too much hassle and I lose postage and Ebay fees etc. Only time I've
bothered "renting" something like that was a top of the range slide
scanner for a large amount of 35mm slides I wanted digitised.

And I can't see it would tell me anything, apart from "it happened at
5am".

When it happens and the detail of how it happens
may well allow you to work out what is causing the
flattening of the battery overnight and fix the problem.

What can it tell me apart from the time of night it did it?

How long that high current lasted for. That would definitively
distinguish between the alarm being triggered and eventually
timing out and a pinched wire which would have quite
different timing, particular over different nights.

I know it's a long time as it can flatten the battery.

But you dont know if its continuous when it happens
or intermittent. If it was intermittent and regular it
could well be the alarm triggering, then timing out,
the triggering again and then timing out again etc.

You wouldnt normally get that with a pinched wire.

True, but I'm not spending any more on the problem.

And that would allow you to see which door is the problem
too if it is one of the doors pinching a cable as its closed.

What makes you think it's a door?

Its the most obvious way to pinch a cable.

Actually I've just had an ABS wire fixed that had been damaged by the
handbrake.

Sure, I didnt say its the only one. And that one wouldnt
be fused either. Neither would the airbag triggers.

Airbags certainly are fused.

Mine arent.

I know people who have taken the fuse out.

But you dont know its fused in your steaming turd with wheels..

So if it shorts it just causes a fire? Everything should be fused.

On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 21:46:58 +0100, Rod Speed wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 21:20:38 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:39:25 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:03:17 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:31:05 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

How long does the 4A last for ?

It can flatten the (new 50Ah) battery overnight.

Sure, but I was wondering if it was 4A all night or just in bursts.
You really need a proper data logger to see that, but just visual
inspection of the multimeter might be enough.

After more thought, I'd be checking the electric window switches
if its got electric windows.

Bugger, can't be that because no fuses should stop that
unless the stupid frog car doesnt fuse those windows.

Do you say "bugger" with this accent?
https://youtu.be/CPYmtEQiG18

Pretty close with the blokes.

Ah, so you're a country bumpkin then.

Nope, only the immigrants and ******s dont say it like that..

The stronger the accent, the lower the intelligence.

Even sillier than you usually manage and thats saying something.

Adam has one of the stronger accents in here
and is one of the most intelligent anyway.

There may be exceptions.

Nothing like the women

ROFL!

and I never say bugger me with you bloody poms around.

Do you for some reason believe there's a higher percentage of
homosexuals
in the UK?

Thats a known fact. Have fun listing anywhere else thats got a higher
percentage.

Cite. I'd think it's pretty much the same throughout the world,

More fool you.

No cite then?

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 21:28:01 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:52:51 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:02:36 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 18:31:44 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 01:20:46 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...
It cant be a fused line given that you still get
the battery flattened with no fuses installed.

If you can somehow rig up something that allows you to
see or hear the current draw, or have someone else watch
the meter, you may be able to see if its a door by doing
that and operating the doors.

I've only ever seen it by leaving a multimeter connected with a
maximum
function running. Car sat perfectly still, it just does it
sometimes
overnight.

Yeah, you really need a proper data logger. Not expensive.

Not spending money on stuff for one little purpose like that.

But you did with the charger to kludge around the fault.

A 13.8V 15A power supply is very useful for all sorts.

And you should be able to flog it for about what you paid
for it once it has fixed the problem.

Too much hassle and I lose postage and Ebay fees etc. Only time I've
bothered "renting" something like that was a top of the range slide
scanner for a large amount of 35mm slides I wanted digitised.

And I can't see it would tell me anything, apart from "it happened
at
5am".

When it happens and the detail of how it happens
may well allow you to work out what is causing the
flattening of the battery overnight and fix the problem.

What can it tell me apart from the time of night it did it?

How long that high current lasted for. That would definitively
distinguish between the alarm being triggered and eventually
timing out and a pinched wire which would have quite
different timing, particular over different nights.

I know it's a long time as it can flatten the battery.

But you dont know if its continuous when it happens
or intermittent. If it was intermittent and regular it
could well be the alarm triggering, then timing out,
the triggering again and then timing out again etc.

You wouldnt normally get that with a pinched wire.

True, but I'm not spending any more on the problem.

More fool you when is peanuts and the alternative is to
have to manually charge the damned thing every night.

And that would allow you to see which door is the problem
too if it is one of the doors pinching a cable as its closed.

What makes you think it's a door?

Its the most obvious way to pinch a cable.

Actually I've just had an ABS wire fixed that had been damaged by the
handbrake.

Sure, I didnt say its the only one. And that one wouldnt
be fused either. Neither would the airbag triggers.

Airbags certainly are fused.

Mine arent.

I know people who have taken the fuse out.

But you dont know its fused in your steaming turd with wheels.

So if it shorts it just causes a fire? Everything should be fused.

They are internally fused. That way they cant set fire
to the car and can't have the fuse pulled by a car thief.

Modern car security is about a lot more than not having
a fuse for the alarm in the main fuse box.

"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 21:46:58 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 21:20:38 +0100, Rod Speed
wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 20:39:25 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 19:03:17 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:



"Rod Speed" wrote in message
...


"Commander Kinsey" wrote in message
news On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 00:31:05 +0100, Rod Speed

wrote:

How long does the 4A last for ?

It can flatten the (new 50Ah) battery overnight.

Sure, but I was wondering if it was 4A all night or just in
bursts.
You really need a proper data logger to see that, but just visual
inspection of the multimeter might be enough.

After more thought, I'd be checking the electric window switches
if its got electric windows.

Bugger, can't be that because no fuses should stop that
unless the stupid frog car doesnt fuse those windows.

Do you say "bugger" with this accent?
https://youtu.be/CPYmtEQiG18

Pretty close with the blokes.

Ah, so you're a country bumpkin then.

Nope, only the immigrants and ******s dont say it like that.

The stronger the accent, the lower the intelligence.

Even sillier than you usually manage and thats saying something.

Adam has one of the stronger accents in here
and is one of the most intelligent anyway.

There may be exceptions.

The original is just stupid.

Nothing like the women

ROFL!

and I never say bugger me with you bloody poms around.

Do you for some reason believe there's a higher percentage of
homosexuals
in the UK?

Thats a known fact. Have fun listing anywhere else thats got a higher
percentage.

Cite. I'd think it's pretty much the same throughout the world,

More fool you.

No cite then?

Dont need one that is obvious.

....and nothing's left!

--
Norman Wells addressing senile Rot:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID:

....and much better air in here again!

--
Richard addressing Rot Speed:
"**** you're thick/pathetic excuse for a troll."
MID: