On Sat, 6 Apr 2019 10:45:31 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH troll****

You won't let go any time soon of that gfretard now, eh, senile Rot? He
seems to be the one retarded Yank here who will fall for ALL your senile
trolls! BG

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID:

On Sat, 6 Apr 2019 10:43:08 +1100, cantankerous trolling geezer Rot Speed,
the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH senile Ozzie troll's senile troll****

....and much better air in here.

--
FredXX to Rot Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shippe the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID:

On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 19:42:43 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/05/2019 08:41 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Thu, 4 Apr 2019 19:42:41 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/04/2019 03:54 PM, Shadow wrote:
Criminals can easily convert semi-autos to auto. It's illegal,
but they ARE criminals. They often couple that with large capacity
magazines so the magazine is NOT emptied on a brief trigger-pull.

You have a lot of criminals with full auto firearms, do you?

Yes. They're called the "president and his men" now.
Bolsonaro doesn't trust the military, so he goes around with a
crowd of criminals as bodyguards.
[]'s


Free election, wasn't it? 55% of the vote, wasn't it?

No, the main opposition candidate (who had 67% of the polls)
was locked up on "unspecified legal charges" and was not allowed to
run.
He's still in solitary confinement, a year later. The "proof"
of his crimes has been classified, and was not released to the public.
If they did that in America with the main repuglican
candidate, you'd be OK with it ?
Oh right, you'd reach for your pea-shooters and take down the
"rogue government". I almost forgot.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012

In article ,
says...

Recall the old cop killer bullets. The left makes up **** that fools
their sycophants.

The Black Talon was reborn as the Golden Sabre. They're not black so
they don't give the lefties damp panties.





Not really, two different companies. REmington and Winchester. However
Winchester did come out with a very similar bullet with another name.
Think it is Ranger SXT.

On 4/5/2019 10:11 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 04/05/2019 12:43 PM, Frank wrote:
On 4/4/2019 9:51 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
On 4/4/2019 7:58 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 4 Apr 2019 18:08:01 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

It would be as easy to make a bolt action into a "blowback" machine
gun as most semi autos that were not first designed as machine guns.

Â*Â* Now that would take a Real Machinist ! I have a small machine shop
and I know where to get the plans to make a couple of different arms
into full autos . But that $250,000 fine and ten years in prison is a
pretty good deterrent . Especially since I don't have any arms that
can
be easily converted - and have less than zero need for one . I
prefer to
do my work with bolt actions at a slightly longer distance ... Rock
chucks at 400 meters anyone ?

I prefer just a six shot revolver.Â* It goes bang every time and won't
jam with brass at ejection.

My choice barks over her and bites over yonder. This is mean hand gun
I got.

Â*Â* I bet it ain't any meaner than a TC Contender with a 14" bull
barrel chambered in .30 Herrett . And wearing a 4X TC RP scope ...
With the right load that one grouped under 1/2" at 50 yards . And a
125 gr soft point leaving the muzzle at 2100+ FPS had more energy at
50 yards than a .44 mag w/240 gr has at the muzzle .

One of my sons has a 500 S&W.Â* He thinks its just neat to have.Â* I've
been trying to get him to the range to shoot it.Â* He also has a Desert
Eagle 50AE.Â* I have shot it and recoil is very manageable because the
gun is so heavy.Â* I would only shoot it once though as the ejected case
hit me in the forehead.

I have a .50 AE case that I found on my desk. I amuse myself by dropping
a .45 ACP round into it. I don't think I really want to shoot one. But
then, I'm a wuss. I load down .357 to lukewarm .38 Special performance.
I don't need any flinch inducing stuff until I seriously need it.

I download my stuff too for plinking. Also makes it a lot easier to
clean the gun when lead bullets are used. No longer reload .38 special
for .357 as head space in cylinder leads up and is hard to clean.

I have rubber grips on my revolvers and wear gloves as wooden grips
which might look great can add to perceived recoil as well as chew up
your hands.

On 4/5/2019 10:06 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 04/05/2019 12:37 PM, Frank wrote:
On 4/4/2019 9:52 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 04/04/2019 06:58 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 4 Apr 2019 18:08:01 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

It would be as easy to make a bolt action into a "blowback" machine
gun as most semi autos that were not first designed as machine guns.

* Now that would take a Real Machinist ! I have a small machine shop
and I know where to get the plans to make a couple of different arms
into full autos . But that $250,000 fine and ten years in prison is a
pretty good deterrent . Especially since I don't have any arms that
can
be easily converted - and have less than zero need for one . I
prefer to
do my work with bolt actions at a slightly longer distance ... Rock
chucks at 400 meters anyone ?


I prefer just a six shot revolver.* It goes bang every time and won't
jam with brass at ejection.

Unless you're Jerry Miculek there is a bit of a pause between bang 6
and bang 7.* Unless you've got one of those fancy Smith 627s of
course. The first time I saw someone shooting one of those there was a
WTF? moment at bang 7.

I always assumed I was slow to reload because I'm left handed but then
I realized right handed people do a juggling act too.



I prefer my revolver to my semi as I reload and it is a pain to pickup
ejected brass.

Winter and mud season makes revolvers and .22's very attractive.

https://www.natchezss.com/caldwell-brass-retriever.html

A guy at the pistol club had one of those. It didn't work very well on a
pistol bay with grass, rocks, and so on. It certainly doesn't work when
the brass melts its way into 2' of snow. I've used a tarp to catch most
of the cases and went back in the spring for the rest if someone else
didn't get there first.


I've seen those before but nobody at club that I know of uses one. I
carry one of those grabbers to pick up brass so I don't have to stoop
too much.

On 4/5/2019 11:50 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 20:15:01 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/05/2019 12:45 PM, Frank wrote:
On 4/4/2019 9:39 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 04/04/2019 10:59 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, April 4, 2019 at 12:38:04 PM UTC-4, Bod wrote:
On 04/04/2019 17:21, wrote:
On Thu, 04 Apr 2019 14:02:02 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

Terry Coombs writes:
On 4/3/2019 7:48 PM, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 03 Apr 2019 17:25:39 GMT, (Scott
Lurndal)
wrote:

If you thing a handful of assault rifles in the peoples hands
will have
any affect on an "oppressive government", you haven't been
paying attention
to recent world history.
Check your facts. Say America has 4% of the world's population
and has
42% of the guns in the world. Ask Senator Feinstein.

Then read about the Oath Keepers. Guns are my natural right birth.

If you are offended, ask me if I give ****.

spit

 What Scott doesn't realize or refuses to acknowledge is that a
large
percentage of those arms are owned by people with military
training and
COMBAT EXPERIENCE .

The vast majority are owned by ordinary americans, survivalists,
and criminals.

What's your point? The military is composed of ordinary Americans too,
most with minimal training. A agree they have the weapons of mass
destruction but a government that turns that kind of indiscriminate
power against it's own population is going to lose support pretty
fast.
The same thing in the American spirit that makes us the most murdering
population in the western world will make us a pretty hard population
to subjugate. Bear in mind, we trained most of the insurgents in the
world, including the ones we could not beat with all of our military
might.

Second, the guns are useless when you run out of ammo; and you
can't complete
with a government on that count.

As long as the government has ammo, you can get it. That is one
advantage in owning "military" calibers.

Third, you're not paying attention to recent world history. Show
one example
where guns in the hands of the populace have overthrown their own
government
without any aid from an external government (even the American
Revolution was
provided arms and ammunition by the French).

Why do you think there would not be other countries lining up to
support an insurgency against an oppressive government here?


I believe that hunting weapons should be legal (bolt-action rifles,
limited-magazine shotguns). I'm less convinced about handguns,
but could
support revolver possession. Not assault rifles, weapons that
can easily
be converted into automatic weapons (e.g. bump stocks or modified
semi-auto
handguns) or actual real automatic weapons.

The flaw in your logic is defining an assault weapon. We are also put
far to much emphasis on a very few murders. Most of the 11,000 murders
in the US are gang related and involve handguns. Rifles, all types,
assault or otherwise are not involved in as many murders as "bare
hands" killings. (AKA "personal weapons" in the UCR)
It is really just racists who put far more importance on white
suburban lives than inner city people of color who are pushing this
"assault weapon" bull****.
BTW you all seem to forget the first famous "active shooter" was
Charles Whitman who killed 17 people and wounded 30 more with that
benign bolt action rifle you speak of.1

25% of mass shooters used assault rifles, the majority of the rest
used either and auto rifle or an auto handgun.

Semi-auto, I think you'll find.

Cindy Hamilton


That point is lost on Bod. When you don't know **** about firearms you
make it up as you go along, like Joe Scarborough's theory that an
AR-15 is much deadlier than a M-16.


Recall the old cop killer bullets. The left makes up **** that fools
their sycophants.

The Black Talon was reborn as the Golden Sabre. They're not black so
they don't give the lefties damp panties.


"Cop killer" was a whole nother breed of cat, the opposite of a talon.
It was a pointy teflon bullet that would go through some lower grade
vests, even out of a mediocre .38 or 9mm.
These days Hornady and some others have bullets that put that talon to
shame. It is mostly about retaining expansion capability after
penetrating windshields and drywall tho. (the FBI protocol)

Any pointy bullet can penetrate a vest. You can do it with an ice pick.

On 4/5/2019 11:28 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 20:24:39 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 4/5/2019 6:10 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 05 Apr 2019 16:59:41 -0300, Shadow wrote:

On Fri, 05 Apr 2019 14:30:38 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 18:58:28 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:


Or a semi auto either. There isnt a lot of game that charges the
individual shooting at them so they need a semi auto to survive.

In the case of birds, you may want to shoot more than one.

Not with a semi-auto or even an auto rifle. A double barrel or
pump action shotgun would be more adequate. Unless you're a really bad
shot.
[]'s

I shot plenty of skeet in a league with about 100 other shooters. The
most popular gun by far was a semi auto (usually a Remington 1100) and
only a few people had doubles, even fewer with pumps.
Recoil is a big part of it. After a few boxes of shells that solid
action will start getting to you. If you shoot 100 rounds in an
evening you might really start to appreciate that SA if you are a
small guy or a woman.
I still liked my O/U Daly tho.


I have a Remington 1100 and have shot many feather and furred critters
with it. Most recently just used mostly on deer and I have doubled many
times. Shot trap and skeet with it but got a Remington 870 for trap as
if shell at my club hit the ground you were not allowed to keep it and I
reloaded them.

They used to say that at our club too but if you were only picking up
your own nobody complained. I never got into reloading shotgun. I was
buying Winchester AAs for a little more than it cost to reload them
but I was buying them a pallet at a time. It took two 1/2 ton trucks
to haul them away. I was buying for the whole league, at least those
who didn't reload and could front up $50 a case (20 boxes in those
days) for them. The reloaders were always clamoring for my once fired
AA hulls tho. With an O/U it was easy to just hand them to them.


I reload everything. I even cast and reloaded Lyman slugs for shotgun
hunting.

On 04/06/2019 04:10 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Fri, 5 Apr 2019 19:42:43 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/05/2019 08:41 AM, Shadow wrote:
On Thu, 4 Apr 2019 19:42:41 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/04/2019 03:54 PM, Shadow wrote:
Criminals can easily convert semi-autos to auto. It's illegal,
but they ARE criminals. They often couple that with large capacity
magazines so the magazine is NOT emptied on a brief trigger-pull.

You have a lot of criminals with full auto firearms, do you?

Yes. They're called the "president and his men" now.
Bolsonaro doesn't trust the military, so he goes around with a
crowd of criminals as bodyguards.
[]'s


Free election, wasn't it? 55% of the vote, wasn't it?

No, the main opposition candidate (who had 67% of the polls)
was locked up on "unspecified legal charges" and was not allowed to
run.
He's still in solitary confinement, a year later. The "proof"
of his crimes has been classified, and was not released to the public.
If they did that in America with the main repuglican
candidate, you'd be OK with it ?

No, but I would be good with "Lock her up!" Haddad is locked up? Or did
you mean Lula? iirc there was a very long list of specific charges
connected to bribery and corruption. It was all the lying media, right?
How's his protege Rousseff doing? Brazil doesn't screw around where
they do impeachments.

You've got your own little red/blue state thing going, don't you, with
the libs up in the northeast corner?

I do have to admit Brazil has improved. Taurus used to make some
questionable copies but they're been doing some innovative designs of
high quality lately. Smith & Wesson even ripped off the Judge rather
than Taurus ripping off the Smith 66. I haven't seen a new one but I
guess the Taurus 66 grew another hole over the years.

On 04/05/2019 09:38 PM, wrote:
I think it is muscle memory as much as anything combined with being
able to point where you are looking without thinking about it.
At the 7 yard line I can shoot my KP90 from high retention with my
eyes closed and stay in the center of mass after I get centered.

The Appleseed program stresses the 'natural point of aim' and cadence.
Works great from a prone position when the cardboard isn't moving around.

On 04/05/2019 09:47 PM, wrote:
The only thing I ever reloaded in any quantity was .38/.357 and being
revolvers, the brass was easy to keep track of.

I reload .38/.357, .45 ACP, and 9mm/.380 in pistol calibers. That leaves
me with an aversion to .40, .357SIG, .38 Super, and other look-alikes
from 5 feet. .40 is popular in USPSA circles because it counts as a
major caliber. If it sneaks by me it jams up in the press.

One of my IBM
coworkers used to cast bullets and he was always on the hunt for lead.
My roomie was a cable splicer for Ma Bell. He would give me old cable
sleeves (lead), by work buddy would swap them for cast bullets. I had
thousands. I was reloading .38 wad cutters cheaper than I could buy
.22rf and I had a range in the basement (my ex still has it).

Lead is the unicorn of the reloading world. 'Just go to the local tire
shop' Unfortunately Billie Bob got there 5 years ago and slips the
manager a bottle every now and then. Dardas sells cast bullets at a
reasonable price and saves the hassle. I like Berry's plated too.

I was
shooting almost every day. My game was rapid fire, 6 shots at 6
targets timed at 5-7 yards. I was getting pretty good. I still never
got good at slow fire, 25 yards.

I've shot USPSA and still mess around with it sometimes. It's a mental
thing. I always shot slow and rapid fire seems like a waste. Plus, I'm
not very good at it. Even when I think I'm going fast the Pocket Pro
says I'm not. If I get the splits down to .20 with a 9, accuracy goes to
hell. With USPSA the A class shooters are fast and accurate but down in
the C and D range fast beats accurate. I can't make the mental
adjustment and live with a sort of okay sight pattern.

On 04/06/2019 10:35 AM, Frank wrote:
I've seen those before but nobody at club that I know of uses one. I
carry one of those grabbers to pick up brass so I don't have to stoop
too much.

I look at stooping as a good way to preserve mobility. That's not saying
you can't get a little sore preserving mobility.

On 04/06/2019 10:32 AM, Frank wrote:
I download my stuff too for plinking. Also makes it a lot easier to
clean the gun when lead bullets are used. No longer reload .38 special
for .357 as head space in cylinder leads up and is hard to clean.

Yeah, you get much above 800 fps and cleanup is a pain. I never messed
around with gas checks. A long time ago I picked up some bullets at a
show that were a lot better. They were black with a moly coating I
think. I never saw them again so I don't know if the process was too
expensive for what they sold for.


I have rubber grips on my revolvers and wear gloves as wooden grips
which might look great can add to perceived recoil as well as chew up
your hands.

After a couple of outings with my first .357 I saw the reason for
Pachmayr grips. They did have a little right hand bias but it was better
than checkered wood.

On 04/05/2019 09:50 PM, wrote:
These days Hornady and some others have bullets that put that talon to
shame. It is mostly about retaining expansion capability after
penetrating windshields and drywall tho. (the FBI protocol)

One of those was featured this month in Guns & Ammo. It is sintered
copper with a nose that looks like a fluted reamer. Ugly, if nothing else.

Give the Brady Bunch time. They had their shorts in a bunch about the
Five-Seven, particularly after Hasan went jihadi with one. It was the
fault of the ammo of course and not a homicidal Muslim.

On 04/05/2019 09:28 PM, wrote:
They used to say that at our club too but if you were only picking up
your own nobody complained. I never got into reloading shotgun.

That was my first reloading experience when I was 12 or so with a Lee
Loader. My mother wondered how the bathroom scales wound up in the
cellar but I wasn't talking. She'd probably have been on board if I was
reloaded 16ga for her gun but I was doing 12.

I don't know if they would even work with plastic hulls. I was done with
shotguns before plastic became universal.

On Sat, 6 Apr 2019 13:47:14 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/05/2019 09:47 PM, wrote:
The only thing I ever reloaded in any quantity was .38/.357 and being
revolvers, the brass was easy to keep track of.

I reload .38/.357, .45 ACP, and 9mm/.380 in pistol calibers. That leaves
me with an aversion to .40, .357SIG, .38 Super, and other look-alikes
from 5 feet. .40 is popular in USPSA circles because it counts as a
major caliber. If it sneaks by me it jams up in the press.

One of my IBM
coworkers used to cast bullets and he was always on the hunt for lead.
My roomie was a cable splicer for Ma Bell. He would give me old cable
sleeves (lead), by work buddy would swap them for cast bullets. I had
thousands. I was reloading .38 wad cutters cheaper than I could buy
.22rf and I had a range in the basement (my ex still has it).

Lead is the unicorn of the reloading world. 'Just go to the local tire
shop' Unfortunately Billie Bob got there 5 years ago and slips the
manager a bottle every now and then. Dardas sells cast bullets at a
reasonable price and saves the hassle. I like Berry's plated too.

I was
shooting almost every day. My game was rapid fire, 6 shots at 6
targets timed at 5-7 yards. I was getting pretty good. I still never
got good at slow fire, 25 yards.

I've shot USPSA and still mess around with it sometimes. It's a mental
thing. I always shot slow and rapid fire seems like a waste. Plus, I'm
not very good at it. Even when I think I'm going fast the Pocket Pro
says I'm not. If I get the splits down to .20 with a 9, accuracy goes to
hell. With USPSA the A class shooters are fast and accurate but down in
the C and D range fast beats accurate. I can't make the mental
adjustment and live with a sort of okay sight pattern.


These days all I want to be able to do is get from high retention to a
round on target as fast as possible with the least amount of fliers.
Other than that I will shoot skeet or some other shotgun game. I do
shoot my M1A occasionally but just to be sure the scope is still
close. The iron sights are dialed in for 200 yards and that won't
change much.

On Sat, 6 Apr 2019 13:56:02 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/06/2019 10:32 AM, Frank wrote:
I download my stuff too for plinking. Also makes it a lot easier to
clean the gun when lead bullets are used. No longer reload .38 special
for .357 as head space in cylinder leads up and is hard to clean.

Yeah, you get much above 800 fps and cleanup is a pain. I never messed
around with gas checks. A long time ago I picked up some bullets at a
show that were a lot better. They were black with a moly coating I
think. I never saw them again so I don't know if the process was too
expensive for what they sold for.


I have rubber grips on my revolvers and wear gloves as wooden grips
which might look great can add to perceived recoil as well as chew up
your hands.

After a couple of outings with my first .357 I saw the reason for
Pachmayr grips. They did have a little right hand bias but it was better
than checkered wood.

I always shot cast over 2-2.5 gr of Bullseye for wad cutters. I used
something like Unique for hotter jacketed stuff.

On Sat, 6 Apr 2019 14:02:01 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/05/2019 09:50 PM, wrote:
These days Hornady and some others have bullets that put that talon to
shame. It is mostly about retaining expansion capability after
penetrating windshields and drywall tho. (the FBI protocol)

One of those was featured this month in Guns & Ammo. It is sintered
copper with a nose that looks like a fluted reamer. Ugly, if nothing else.

Give the Brady Bunch time. They had their shorts in a bunch about the
Five-Seven, particularly after Hasan went jihadi with one. It was the
fault of the ammo of course and not a homicidal Muslim.

There are lots of high performance bullets out there these days. It
was pretty much a Super Vel or some kind of Keith hollow point when I
started reloading a half century or more ago. My stuff has been packed
away since I moved to Florida and don't have a range in the house.

On Sat, 6 Apr 2019 14:11:20 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/05/2019 09:28 PM, wrote:
They used to say that at our club too but if you were only picking up
your own nobody complained. I never got into reloading shotgun.

That was my first reloading experience when I was 12 or so with a Lee
Loader. My mother wondered how the bathroom scales wound up in the
cellar but I wasn't talking. She'd probably have been on board if I was
reloaded 16ga for her gun but I was doing 12.

I don't know if they would even work with plastic hulls. I was done with
shotguns before plastic became universal.

Toward the end of my skeet league days Federal Champions were paper. I
still have the best part of a case.

On 04/06/2019 04:33 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 6 Apr 2019 14:02:01 -0600, rbowman wrote:

On 04/05/2019 09:50 PM, wrote:
These days Hornady and some others have bullets that put that talon to
shame. It is mostly about retaining expansion capability after
penetrating windshields and drywall tho. (the FBI protocol)

One of those was featured this month in Guns & Ammo. It is sintered
copper with a nose that looks like a fluted reamer. Ugly, if nothing else.

Give the Brady Bunch time. They had their shorts in a bunch about the
Five-Seven, particularly after Hasan went jihadi with one. It was the
fault of the ammo of course and not a homicidal Muslim.

There are lots of high performance bullets out there these days. It
was pretty much a Super Vel or some kind of Keith hollow point when I
started reloading a half century or more ago. My stuff has been packed
away since I moved to Florida and don't have a range in the house.


For me it doesn't take much to kill cardboard. For that matter I can
amuse myself with a box of primers and some wax. At 7 yards the POI
isn't that different to +P+.