Will someone please explain overhead fluorescent lights for me. What is a ballast--- or starter or light tube? Sometimes some of them work and sometimes others may work. Are LED lites much better? Thanx for any reply Herb

On 10/25/2018 3:27 PM, wrote:
Will someone please explain overhead fluorescent lights for me. What is a ballast--- or starter or light tube? Sometimes some of them work and sometimes others may work. Are LED lites much better? Thanx for any reply Herb


LED lights are much better. Last longer and are cheaper to operate.

Starters are a little metal can that screws into the fixture. They have
been pretty much eliminated in the past 25+ years now.

The ballast is a heavy electrical device that powers the tube. It is
inside the fixture, usually a long black thing. They do burn out at times.

The light tubes is the visible glass tube that lights up. Best to
replace both of them at the same time if a fixture has two, but can have
four. The ends often start to go black when old and ready to burn out.

If you are having problems, the smartest thing you can do is replace
them with LED fixtures.

On 10/25/18 12:27 PM, wrote:
Will someone please explain overhead fluorescent lights for me. What is a ballast--- or starter or light tube? Sometimes some of them work and sometimes others may work. Are LED lites much better? Thanx for any reply Herb


Hmmm. An on topic question. What to think ...

Here are some good references:

http://edisontechcenter.org/Fluorescent.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lamp

The ballast specifically:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluore...st_electronics

I would personally go with LED. No glass tubes to shatter when
you fumble them, they are lower power, they run cool and
they last forever. Well, almost.

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 16:23:15 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/25/2018 3:27 PM, wrote:
Will someone please explain overhead fluorescent lights for me. What is a ballast--- or starter or light tube? Sometimes some of them work and sometimes others may work. Are LED lites much better? Thanx for any reply Herb


LED lights are much better. Last longer and are cheaper to operate.

Starters are a little metal can that screws into the fixture. They have
been pretty much eliminated in the past 25+ years now.

The ballast is a heavy electrical device that powers the tube. It is
inside the fixture, usually a long black thing. They do burn out at times.

The light tubes is the visible glass tube that lights up. Best to
replace both of them at the same time if a fixture has two, but can have
four. The ends often start to go black when old and ready to burn out.

If you are having problems, the smartest thing you can do is replace
them with LED fixtures.


ANd LED lights do not emit ultraviolet so they don't cause color
fading.

Best solution is to replace the flourescent fixture with dedicated LED
fixture rather than retrofitting

On 10/25/2018 5:18 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 16:23:15 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 10/25/2018 3:27 PM, wrote:
Will someone please explain overhead fluorescent lights for me. What is a ballast--- or starter or light tube? Sometimes some of them work and sometimes others may work. Are LED lites much better? Thanx for any reply Herb

LED lights are much better. Last longer and are cheaper to operate.

Starters are a little metal can that screws into the fixture. They have
been pretty much eliminated in the past 25+ years now.

The ballast is a heavy electrical device that powers the tube. It is
inside the fixture, usually a long black thing. They do burn out at times.

The light tubes is the visible glass tube that lights up. Best to
replace both of them at the same time if a fixture has two, but can have
four. The ends often start to go black when old and ready to burn out.

If you are having problems, the smartest thing you can do is replace
them with LED fixtures.

ANd LED lights do not emit ultraviolet so they don't cause color
fading.

Best solution is to replace the flourescent fixture with dedicated LED
fixture rather than retrofitting

Â* The most cost-effective solution is to buy tubes on ebay and rewire
your existing fixtures . The ones I got were less than 5 bucks each ...
and it took an average of 10 minutes each to rewire the fixtures . More
light than I've ever had , and I have 2 spares if one ever fails .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

In Clare Snyder writes:

ANd LED lights do not emit ultraviolet so they don't cause color
fading.

Many do, in fact.

Causes problems in professional photography. Quoting a friend
in another thread:

"They don't leak a lot of UV, but they leak
enough that blue flowers will turn pink when photographed ..."


--
__________________________________________________ ___
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key

[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

The ballast in my basement kitchen fixture went bad.

I replaced it with an LED tube. I wired it direct. You can buy either kind - the tube you use with a ballast, or the tube you wire directly.

The advantage of the ballast type is that you can always swap in a regular tube if you don't like the LED. But I didn't have that option. The disadvantage is you might have to change out the coffins (the sockets that hold the tube.) That may or may not be an issue.

Mine has run fine for a couple of years. It starts slower than the regular fluorescent did, but seems immune to the cold. I don't heat the basement and in the winter the lights would warm up a bit slow. The LED takes a moment to come on but then it's full brightnest.

It uses less electricity. And, it is less bright. But not enough to be a problem. Replacement is going to be a problem, the big box stores no longer carry that type around here.

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 23:39:26 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
wrote:

In Clare Snyder writes:

ANd LED lights do not emit ultraviolet so they don't cause color
fading.

Many do, in fact.

Causes problems in professional photography. Quoting a friend
in another thread:

"They don't leak a lot of UV, but they leak
enough that blue flowers will turn pink when photographed ..."

From premierltg.com

Some in the lighting business have stated that LEDs do not produce UV
radiation. However studies have shown that standard LEDs do create a
small amount of UV. That said, the amount of UV they actually emit is
even less. This is due to the phosphors within an LED lamp that
convert the Ultraviolet light to white light.

We all know that exposure to UV radiation leads to sunburn, and in
extreme scenarios can lead to eye problems, skin cancer, weakening of
the immune system, and more. Fortunately, most artificial light
sources do not emit enough UV for this to be a real concern. CFL
lamps, already a worry for their mercury content, are being studied
for the UV they put out. While not emitting a significant amount of
UV, some people who are very sensitive to UV may be affected by the
amount of UV produced by CFLs. Health Canada recommends that people
keep a distance of 30 cm or more from any light source.

An additional concern with UV output is color degradation. CFL and HID
lamps have been known to cause damage to shades, carpets, painted
surfaces, and more due to UV emissions. This has been another
motivating factor for places like museums to retrofit to LED.

On Thu, 25 Oct 2018 17:43:39 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

The ballast in my basement kitchen fixture went bad.

I replaced it with an LED tube. I wired it direct. You can buy either kind - the tube you use with a ballast, or the tube you wire directly.

The advantage of the ballast type is that you can always swap in a regular tube if you don't like the LED. But I didn't have that option. The disadvantage is you might have to change out the coffins (the sockets that hold the tube.) That may or may not be an issue.

Mine has run fine for a couple of years. It starts slower than the regular fluorescent did, but seems immune to the cold. I don't heat the basement and in the winter the lights would warm up a bit slow. The LED takes a moment to come on but then it's full brightnest.

It uses less electricity. And, it is less bright. But not enough to be a problem. Replacement is going to be a problem, the big box stores no longer carry that type around here.


They will soon be deader than a dodo bird. They do not meet ANY real
safety certifications. They have already been "outlawed" in Canada.
The USA won't be far behind.

I find my "direct replacement" LED tubes significantly brighter than
my Deluxe Warm White 34 watt tubes. Not sure about the old 40 watt
units.

On 10/25/2018 3:27 PM, wrote:
Will someone please explain overhead fluorescent lights for me. What is a ballast--- or starter or light tube? Sometimes some of them work and sometimes others may work. Are LED lites much better? Thanx for any reply Herb

And BTW, it's fluorescent.

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 9:50:18 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
I find my "direct replacement" LED tubes significantly brighter than
my Deluxe Warm White 34 watt tubes. Not sure about the old 40 watt
units.

I'm not so sure. I don't have any way to actually measure but I offer the following anecdote.

I replaced two 34 watt T12 fluorescent tubes with two 17 watt LED replacement tubes, direct wired (no ballast.)

To my eyes the replacement LED looked as bright or brighter.

But that location is where I occasionally shoot a video of myself playing an instrument. The LED shines on my front, there is another older fluorescent fixture behind me. In the past video quality was good, but with the new system and everything else in the same place, the video now comes out silhouetted. The light hitting the front is apparently much less than before.

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 8:43:45 PM UTC-4, TimR wrote:
The ballast in my basement kitchen fixture went bad.

I replaced it with an LED tube. I wired it direct. You can buy either kind - the tube you use with a ballast, or the tube you wire directly.

The advantage of the ballast type is that you can always swap in a regular tube if you don't like the LED. But I didn't have that option. The disadvantage is you might have to change out the coffins (the sockets that hold the tube.) That may or may not be an issue.

That is an issue. They are commonly called tombstones, because that's
what they look like, not coffins.




Mine has run fine for a couple of years. It starts slower than the regular fluorescent did,


Is that a typical characteristic of these? That's surprising, because
the typical LED bulbs you buy for other applications today are instant on.



but seems immune to the cold. I don't heat the basement and in the winter the lights would warm up a bit slow. The LED takes a moment to come on but then it's full brightnest.

It uses less electricity. And, it is less bright. But not enough to be a problem. Replacement is going to be a problem, the big box stores no longer carry that type around here.

In article ,
says...

Mine has run fine for a couple of years. It starts slower than the regular fluorescent did,


Is that a typical characteristic of these? That's surprising, because
the typical LED bulbs you buy for other applications today are instant on.




Several years ago I bought some led fixtuers from Home Depot. They come
on as soon as I turn the switch on. I am not sure what kind of tubes or
if they have any kind of external ballast type circuit in the actual
fixture.

A few months ago I bought some LED tubes from Lowes. They are the ones
that you remove the ballast and wire directly. They take about one or
two seconds to come on. All are in the basement where the temperature
is the same. Others have reported on their LEDs comming on slow,so I do
not worry aboutthat.

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 05:38:27 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 9:50:18 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
I find my "direct replacement" LED tubes significantly brighter than
my Deluxe Warm White 34 watt tubes. Not sure about the old 40 watt
units.

I'm not so sure. I don't have any way to actually measure but I offer the following anecdote.

I replaced two 34 watt T12 fluorescent tubes with two 17 watt LED replacement tubes, direct wired (no ballast.)

To my eyes the replacement LED looked as bright or brighter.

But that location is where I occasionally shoot a video of myself playing an instrument. The LED shines on my front, there is another older fluorescent fixture behind me. In the past video quality was good, but with the new system and everything else in the same place, the video now comes out silhouetted. The light hitting the front is apparently much less than before.


My RCC340 illuminometer shows 970-990 Lux at 2 feet with the LED The
old deluxe warm white tubes were about 740-750. Don't know about the
colour sensitivity, and the human eye responds more to blue than
yellow (blue appears brighter)

Just pulled out the documentation - it is pretty peaky at about 570nm
which is yellow-green - meaning it should be more sensitive to the
warm white tube than the bluer (shorter wavelength) Only 80% as
sensitive at 500nm

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:35:03 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Mine has run fine for a couple of years. It starts slower than the regular fluorescent did,


Is that a typical characteristic of these? That's surprising, because
the typical LED bulbs you buy for other applications today are instant on.




Several years ago I bought some led fixtuers from Home Depot. They come
on as soon as I turn the switch on. I am not sure what kind of tubes or
if they have any kind of external ballast type circuit in the actual
fixture.

A few months ago I bought some LED tubes from Lowes. They are the ones
that you remove the ballast and wire directly. They take about one or
two seconds to come on. All are in the basement where the temperature
is the same. Others have reported on their LEDs comming on slow,so I do
not worry aboutthat.
Both my direct fit (uses ballast) conversions in the basement and my
dedicated LED fixture in the garage light immediately at full bright.

On 10/26/2018 8:38 AM, TimR wrote:
On Thursday, October 25, 2018 at 9:50:18 PM UTC-4, Clare Snyder wrote:
I find my "direct replacement" LED tubes significantly brighter than
my Deluxe Warm White 34 watt tubes. Not sure about the old 40 watt
units.

I'm not so sure. I don't have any way to actually measure but I offer the following anecdote.

I replaced two 34 watt T12 fluorescent tubes with two 17 watt LED replacement tubes, direct wired (no ballast.)

To my eyes the replacement LED looked as bright or brighter.

But that location is where I occasionally shoot a video of myself playing an instrument. The LED shines on my front, there is another older fluorescent fixture behind me. In the past video quality was good, but with the new system and everything else in the same place, the video now comes out silhouetted. The light hitting the front is apparently much less than before.

The ones I bought have been the same, LEDs brighter. The 1st LED tubes
I bought were actually glass. Has trouble with FEDEX breaking them
twice ... third time actually came through unscathed. However, I broke
one but managed to "repair" it with a plastic fluorescent bulb protector
cover. The last batch I bought were really nice; aluminum on the back
side and milky plastic front and sides. They are ballast bypass and can
be wired in any way you want. That's really nice as my original
basement and garage fixtures use shunted sockets with electronic
ballasts powering each end. Here's the Amazon link:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

On 10/26/18 9:31 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

[snip]

Both my direct fit (uses ballast) conversions in the basement and my
dedicated LED fixture in the garage light immediately at full bright.

I have had some CFLs (spirals inside floodlight enclosures) that took
awhile to come on, but have never had a LED that didn't come on right away.

--
59 days until the winter celebration (Tue Dec 25, 2018 12:00:00 AM for 1
day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"In addition I think science has enjoyed an extraordinary success
because it has such a limited and narrow realm in which to focus its
efforts. Namely, the physical universe." [Ken Jenkins]

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:08:54 PM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/26/18 9:31 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

[snip]

Both my direct fit (uses ballast) conversions in the basement and my
dedicated LED fixture in the garage light immediately at full bright.

I have had some CFLs (spirals inside floodlight enclosures) that took
awhile to come on, but have never had a LED that didn't come on right away.


That's why I was curious about Tim's with the delay. He also said that
they were the direct wire in type, so that rules out anything to do with
the old ballast, etc. LEDs are solid state, don't need to warm up, use
very little power, are supplied with simple switching power supplies.
I can't figure out why there would be a delay. Or why you'd make them
that way when like you say, all the other LEDs you've seen, come on
instantly, as has been my experience. Maybe they figured out people with
old florescents expect the delay and will miss it?

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:49:52 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:08:54 PM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/26/18 9:31 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

[snip]

Both my direct fit (uses ballast) conversions in the basement and my
dedicated LED fixture in the garage light immediately at full bright.

I have had some CFLs (spirals inside floodlight enclosures) that took
awhile to come on, but have never had a LED that didn't come on right away.


That's why I was curious about Tim's with the delay. He also said that
they were the direct wire in type, so that rules out anything to do with
the old ballast, etc. LEDs are solid state, don't need to warm up, use
very little power, are supplied with simple switching power supplies.
I can't figure out why there would be a delay. Or why you'd make them
that way when like you say, all the other LEDs you've seen, come on
instantly, as has been my experience. Maybe they figured out people with
old florescents expect the delay and will miss it?

Yes, tombstones not coffins. Sorry, I had brain cramp.

I expected them to light immediately.

My kitchen has two fixtures, each on a separate switch (but in one box, so you can flip both at the same time.) I replaced one with LED and left the other for later if I ended up liking the LED. Since I bought a box of 10 T12s, I have some spare tubes to use up. Also that one is a little more of a pain to get to the wires, being over the stove.

When I flip both switches, the old T12 fixture lights right away. If it is really cold down there it comes to full brightness later but it's on immediately. The LED follows it by 1 - 2 seconds (I'll try to time it more exactly; now I'm curious.)

I have no idea why the delay. I have some LED replacements for regular incandescent bulbs and they all light immediately.

On 10/29/2018 8:30 AM, TimR wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:49:52 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:08:54 PM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/26/18 9:31 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

[snip]

Both my direct fit (uses ballast) conversions in the basement and my
dedicated LED fixture in the garage light immediately at full bright.

I have had some CFLs (spirals inside floodlight enclosures) that took
awhile to come on, but have never had a LED that didn't come on right away.


That's why I was curious about Tim's with the delay. He also said that
they were the direct wire in type, so that rules out anything to do with
the old ballast, etc. LEDs are solid state, don't need to warm up, use
very little power, are supplied with simple switching power supplies.
I can't figure out why there would be a delay. Or why you'd make them
that way when like you say, all the other LEDs you've seen, come on
instantly, as has been my experience. Maybe they figured out people with
old florescents expect the delay and will miss it?

Yes, tombstones not coffins. Sorry, I had brain cramp.

I expected them to light immediately.

My kitchen has two fixtures, each on a separate switch (but in one box, so you can flip both at the same time.) I replaced one with LED and left the other for later if I ended up liking the LED. Since I bought a box of 10 T12s, I have some spare tubes to use up. Also that one is a little more of a pain to get to the wires, being over the stove.

When I flip both switches, the old T12 fixture lights right away. If it is really cold down there it comes to full brightness later but it's on immediately. The LED follows it by 1 - 2 seconds (I'll try to time it more exactly; now I'm curious.)

I have no idea why the delay. I have some LED replacements for regular incandescent bulbs and they all light immediately.

I've seen LED lamps light immediately and some after a very short delay.
It most likely depends on the amount of filtering (capacitance) in the
power supply inside the lamp. I have some LED bulbs that are pretty
small and apparently have very little filtering. You can see every
little voltage fluctuation in the brightness of the bulb. I have some
LED can lights that slowly dim out when you shut off the switch ... lots
of filter capacitance. Most fluorescent lamps don't come up to full
brightness immediately, especially true of CFLs and also when they are
cold. LEDs, once they are on, they are at full. Two seconds is a
really long time ... even 1 second is long. The 4' tubes installed in
all the fixtures in my church take a long time, but I doubt if they are
over 1 second.