What's the procedure?

Seems simple but I could be missing something.
1) Turn off valve to large tank (250 gallons).
2) Open line (wearing gloves & pointing away from face)
3) Connect the small tank (20 gallons) taking care to prevent air entry

Is there more to it from a safety standpoint than that obvious procedure?

On 9/19/2018 8:40 AM, George P wrote:
What's the procedure?

Seems simple but I could be missing something.
1) Turn off valve to large tank (250 gallons).
2) Open line (wearing gloves & pointing away from face)
3) Connect the small tank (20 gallons) taking care to prevent air entry

Is there more to it from a safety standpoint than that obvious procedure?

Pretty much that would be it. Assuming the fittings match. I'm not
sure what type of connector you have.

"George P" wrote in message
What's the procedure?

Seems simple but I could be missing something.
1) Turn off valve to large tank (250 gallons).
2) Open line (wearing gloves & pointing away from face)
3) Connect the small tank (20 gallons) taking care to
prevent air entry

Is there more to it from a safety standpoint than that
obvious procedure?


How fast are you consuming the propane? Like, are you
using it to run a furnace? The faster propane is drawn
off the faster the tank contents cool off. Eventually the
propane will freeze and no more will be available and
the system will 'go out'. When the tank thaws out flow
resumes but the pilot lights are out and you are getting
set up for a propane explosion! Think about that ..... pdk

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 10:36:01 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote

Pretty much that would be it. Assuming the fittings match. I'm not
sure what type of connector you have.

Good question on the fittings!

I am contemplating doing this so I don't even know where to get the smaller
tanks yet but I'll watch out for fitting mismatch.

Does Home Depot sell the smaller tanks?
I'm thinking of a size that's about as tall as a short person.

On 9/19/2018 4:14 PM, George P wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 10:36:01 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote

Pretty much that would be it. Assuming the fittings match. I'm not
sure what type of connector you have.

Good question on the fittings!

I am contemplating doing this so I don't even know where to get the smaller
tanks yet but I'll watch out for fitting mismatch.

Does Home Depot sell the smaller tanks?
I'm thinking of a size that's about as tall as a short person.


I know Lowes has 40 and 100 pound tanks. $98 and $139
Fitting looks the same in the photo, of course you need a longer hose.

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 19:51:42 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/19/2018 4:14 PM, George P wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 10:36:01 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote

Pretty much that would be it. Assuming the fittings match. I'm not
sure what type of connector you have.

Good question on the fittings!

I am contemplating doing this so I don't even know where to get the smaller
tanks yet but I'll watch out for fitting mismatch.

Does Home Depot sell the smaller tanks?
I'm thinking of a size that's about as tall as a short person.


I know Lowes has 40 and 100 pound tanks. $98 and $139
Fitting looks the same in the photo, of course you need a longer hose.

What is your reasoning for making the switch???

On 09/19/2018 02:14 PM, George P wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 10:36:01 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote

Pretty much that would be it. Assuming the fittings match. I'm not
sure what type of connector you have.

Good question on the fittings!

I am contemplating doing this so I don't even know where to get the smaller
tanks yet but I'll watch out for fitting mismatch.

Does Home Depot sell the smaller tanks?
I'm thinking of a size that's about as tall as a short person.


100# tank. Does the existing tank have a regulator?

My propane vendor changed the regulator on my tank from a one stage to a
two stage this spring. I'll pass on what he said as I watched him turn
off the valve. He would close it 30 degrees or so and back it out,
repeating the process gradually until the vale was seated. His theory
was old valve that haven't been turned off in years tend to leak if you
just crank them down tight.

ymmv, but taking a few seconds longer to turn it off can't hurt.

I'm sure you know but j.i.c -- POL fittings have left handed threads. I
use soapy water in a spray bottle to make sure everything is good when
I'm done.

If you have a gas stove turn the burners on to purge the lines. No
matter how fast you are the propane tends to escape and leave some air
in the line.

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 20:56:30 -0600, rbowman wrote

100# tank. Does the existing tank have a regulator?
Yes. Three are two. One at the tank and one at the foundation of the house.

My propane vendor changed the regulator on my tank from a one stage to a
two stage this spring. I'll pass on what he said as I watched him turn
off the valve. He would close it 30 degrees or so and back it out,
repeating the process gradually until the vale was seated. His theory
was old valve that haven't been turned off in years tend to leak if you
just crank them down tight.

Thank you for that hint. Sounds like what I do with old water valves.

I'm sure you know but j.i.c -- POL fittings have left handed threads. I
use soapy water in a spray bottle to make sure everything is good when
I'm done.

I had forgotten about that. I hooked them up years ago (maybe twenty?) but
haven't touched such things since long ago. Thank you for reminding me.

If you have a gas stove turn the burners on to purge the lines. No
matter how fast you are the propane tends to escape and leave some air
in the line.

Yes. Gas stoves. Gas water heater. Gas fireplace.

Good hint to open the windows and doors and then the gas lines inside the
house to prevent air in the lines.

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 20:20:10 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote

What is your reasoning for making the switch???

Road collapsed so it is being worked on for a month or more.
One lane only. One way at a time only. No trucks over 5K pounds allowed.
Cops giving tickets so propane delivery sent notice they can't come.
Same with garbage but garbage can just pile up.
Just need to tide over for a month or two.
Should have thought ahead but didn't think about it in time.

On 09/19/2018 10:58 PM, George P wrote:
On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 20:20:10 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote

What is your reasoning for making the switch???

Road collapsed so it is being worked on for a month or more.
One lane only. One way at a time only. No trucks over 5K pounds allowed.
Cops giving tickets so propane delivery sent notice they can't come.
Same with garbage but garbage can just pile up.
Just need to tide over for a month or two.
Should have thought ahead but didn't think about it in time.


Does your propane company have any tanks you can rent for the duration?
I've seen the 100# tanks out in the yard at mine and they aren't new.

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 23:35:15 -0600, rbowman wrote

Does your propane company have any tanks you can rent for the duration?
I've seen the 100# tanks out in the yard at mine and they aren't new.

Amerigas. They only have big trucks. Really big trucks.
Nowhere near 5K pounds.

They were coming until the cops parked at the weight limit sign.
Apparently it's bad news for their license class to get tickets.

It's not a big deal for most of the residents since they planned ahead.

I didn't realize Lowes sells the small propane tanks.
So that should tide me over.

(I wonder if I can slightly fill the big tank? I'll look for a second
opening because that might be a second method, but I just thought of that
as I was typing so I haven't looked to see if there is a second pipe on the
big tank that I can tap into.)

To save propane I've been turning off the hot water heater every day.
It takes about a half hour to heat up 50 gallons.

I'm curious if that's your experience that it takes about a half hour of
propane to heat 50 gallons of water from ambient of about, oh, I don't
know, room temperature of 70 degrees or so.

On 9/19/18 7:40 AM, George P wrote:
What's the procedure?

Seems simple but I could be missing something.
1) Turn off valve to large tank (250 gallons).
2) Open line (wearing gloves & pointing away from face)
3) Connect the small tank (20 gallons) taking care to prevent air entry

Is there more to it from a safety standpoint than that obvious procedure?

There's a guide here to tank sizes:
https://www.amerigas.com/amerigas-blog/2016/april/tanks-101-propane-tank-sizes
Would putting the 150 gallon one on a small trailer be a practical
option?

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 10:36:01 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 9/19/2018 8:40 AM, George P wrote:
What's the procedure?

Seems simple but I could be missing something.
1) Turn off valve to large tank (250 gallons).
2) Open line (wearing gloves & pointing away from face)
3) Connect the small tank (20 gallons) taking care to prevent air entry

Is there more to it from a safety standpoint than that obvious procedure?

Pretty much that would be it.

Well, I would suggest pointing your face away from the open line instead of
pointing away from your face. After all, the escaping gas might not see
which way you are pointing given that you are wearing the gloves.

On 09/20/2018 08:13 AM, George P wrote:
I'm curious if that's your experience that it takes about a half hour of
propane to heat 50 gallons of water from ambient of about, oh, I don't
know, room temperature of 70 degrees or so.

No idea. My hot water heater is electric.

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 21:58:20 -0700, George P
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Sep 2018 20:20:10 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote

What is your reasoning for making the switch???

Road collapsed so it is being worked on for a month or more.
One lane only. One way at a time only. No trucks over 5K pounds allowed.
Cops giving tickets so propane delivery sent notice they can't come.
Same with garbage but garbage can just pile up.
Just need to tide over for a month or two.
Should have thought ahead but didn't think about it in time.

Good reason. Makes sense.

On 9/20/2018 10:05 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 09/20/2018 08:13 AM, George P wrote:
I'm curious if that's your experience that it takes about a half hour of
propane to heat 50 gallons of water from ambient of about, oh, I don't
know, room temperature of 70 degrees or so.

No idea. My hot water heater is electric.


It can be calculated and I may still have the formula. You have to know
the output of the burner and you can figure how long it will burn on a
tank of propane.

Gallon of propane has 91,000 BTU. Water heater is about 30 - 40,000 BTU

A BTU is the energy required to raise a pound of water 1 degree. Gallon
of water is 8.3 pounds. to raise it from 70 to 120 takes 50 x 8.3 x how
many gallons you used.

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 20:05:29 -0600, lowbrowman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


I'm curious if that's your experience that it takes about a half hour of
propane to heat 50 gallons of water from ambient of about, oh, I don't
know, room temperature of 70 degrees or so.

No idea. My hot water heater is electric.

You have just shut up, senile one. But, of course, you couldn't! BG

On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 10:34:44 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 9/19/18 7:40 AM, George P wrote:
What's the procedure?

Seems simple but I could be missing something.
1) Turn off valve to large tank (250 gallons).
2) Open line (wearing gloves & pointing away from face)
3) Connect the small tank (20 gallons) taking care to prevent air entry

Is there more to it from a safety standpoint than that obvious procedure?

There's a guide here to tank sizes:
https://www.amerigas.com/amerigas-blog/2016/april/tanks-101-propane-tank-sizes
Would putting the 150 gallon one on a small trailer be a practical
option?

He might run into issues there of regulations regarding the transport
of nat gas and what kind of vehicles and equipment are approved for that.
Bringing home a couple of 20 lb tanks in an SUV I'm pretty sure is legal.
Towing a trailer with a 150 gallon tank of propane down a road that
has a weight limit, where cops are checking and stopping trucks, IDK
about that.

On 9/21/2018 7:47 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 10:34:44 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 9/19/18 7:40 AM, George P wrote:
What's the procedure?

Seems simple but I could be missing something.
1) Turn off valve to large tank (250 gallons).
2) Open line (wearing gloves & pointing away from face)
3) Connect the small tank (20 gallons) taking care to prevent air entry

Is there more to it from a safety standpoint than that obvious procedure?

There's a guide here to tank sizes:
https://www.amerigas.com/amerigas-blog/2016/april/tanks-101-propane-tank-sizes
Would putting the 150 gallon one on a small trailer be a practical
option?

He might run into issues there of regulations regarding the transport
of nat gas and what kind of vehicles and equipment are approved for that.
Bringing home a couple of 20 lb tanks in an SUV I'm pretty sure is legal.
Towing a trailer with a 150 gallon tank of propane down a road that
has a weight limit, where cops are checking and stopping trucks, IDK
about that.


Looks like more than I thought. Have to be upright too
http://blog.texaspropane.com/proper-...ane-cylinders/
The maximum number of propane cylinders that can be transported at one
time is five. For open vehicles, the total combined mass of the propane
and cylinders should not exceed 500 kg. The maximum number of propane
cylinders that can be transported in enclosed vehicles is five, as long
as each individual cylinder weighs a total of less than 30 kg (600 lbs).
Typically, a full barbecue cylinder weights approximately 17 kg (34.5 lbs).

On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 8:58:53 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/21/2018 7:47 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 10:34:44 AM UTC-4, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 9/19/18 7:40 AM, George P wrote:
What's the procedure?

Seems simple but I could be missing something.
1) Turn off valve to large tank (250 gallons).
2) Open line (wearing gloves & pointing away from face)
3) Connect the small tank (20 gallons) taking care to prevent air entry

Is there more to it from a safety standpoint than that obvious procedure?

There's a guide here to tank sizes:
https://www.amerigas.com/amerigas-blog/2016/april/tanks-101-propane-tank-sizes
Would putting the 150 gallon one on a small trailer be a practical
option?

He might run into issues there of regulations regarding the transport
of nat gas and what kind of vehicles and equipment are approved for that.
Bringing home a couple of 20 lb tanks in an SUV I'm pretty sure is legal.
Towing a trailer with a 150 gallon tank of propane down a road that
has a weight limit, where cops are checking and stopping trucks, IDK
about that.


Looks like more than I thought. Have to be upright too
http://blog.texaspropane.com/proper-...ane-cylinders/
The maximum number of propane cylinders that can be transported at one
time is five. For open vehicles, the total combined mass of the propane
and cylinders should not exceed 500 kg. The maximum number of propane
cylinders that can be transported in enclosed vehicles is five, as long
as each individual cylinder weighs a total of less than 30 kg (600 lbs).
Typically, a full barbecue cylinder weights approximately 17 kg (34.5 lbs).

They have an extra zero in that 600 lbs above. If this road work is only
for a month or two, he doesn't have to heat a house, limiting usage and his plan
of relying on barbecue size cylinders sounds reasonable for some cooking and
WH.

On Thu, 20 Sep 2018 22:51:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote

It can be calculated and I may still have the formula. You have to know
the output of the burner and you can figure how long it will burn on a
tank of propane.

Gallon of propane has 91,000 BTU. Water heater is about 30 - 40,000 BTU

A BTU is the energy required to raise a pound of water 1 degree. Gallon
of water is 8.3 pounds. to raise it from 70 to 120 takes 50 x 8.3 x how
many gallons you used.

Good news. I thought I was at zero percent but I actually have 5 percent.


I think that means I have about 15 gallons, which may last long enough for
the road repairs to be made (they're scheduled to finish by November 1st).

The hot water heater says its inlet is 37,000 BTUs, right where you said it
would be.

On Fri, 21 Sep 2018 08:29:17 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote

They have an extra zero in that 600 lbs above. If this road work is only
for a month or two, he doesn't have to heat a house, limiting usage and his plan
of relying on barbecue size cylinders sounds reasonable for some cooking and
WH.

I have 5% which I think gives me about ~15 gallons of propane.


I ran the math that Ed Pawlowski gave me, after looking at the sticker on
the water tank which is 40 gallons and 37,000 BTU per hour.

40 gallons water x 8.3 pounds per gallon x (120 - 70 degrees) = 16,600 BTU

Checking for how many gallons are used per 40 gallon cycle
16,600 BTU x 1 gallon propane/91,000 BTU ~= 0.2 gallons of propane

Doublechecking for time to fill up that 40 gallon tank
16,600 BTU x 1 hour/37,000 BTU ~= 0.4 hours (which is about right)

If I did the math right that Ed gave me, 15 gallons of propane should last
about 74 full ho****er heater cycles.

15 gallons propane x 1 cycle/0.2 gallons = 75 ho****er heater cycles

Does my math from Ed's numbers look right to you?