I'm not looking to start another discussion related to the proper techniques for
jacking up and supporting a vehicle. That subject has been discussed ad nauseam.

My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

Based on the date that this first video was published, I think this is the newest
version of the RennStand.

Video Published on May 10, 2017
https://youtu.be/yqXIrSVQ3ts

The following appears to be an earlier version of the RennStand, based on the
date that the video was published:

Video Published on Oct 13, 2016
https://youtu.be/tfk5UF7rbuM

Maybe it's just me, but both the angled welds and the curved sections of the
support bars seem like dangerous points of failure.

On 8/10/17 6:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm not looking to start another discussion related to the proper techniques for
jacking up and supporting a vehicle. That subject has been discussed ad nauseam.

My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

Based on the date that this first video was published, I think this is the newest
version of the RennStand.

Video Published on May 10, 2017
https://youtu.be/yqXIrSVQ3ts

The following appears to be an earlier version of the RennStand, based on the
date that the video was published:

Video Published on Oct 13, 2016
https://youtu.be/tfk5UF7rbuM

Maybe it's just me, but both the angled welds and the curved sections of the
support bars seem like dangerous points of failure.

It would seem stronger without the angles. Also, wouldn't the
jacks be a bit simpler
to make if there was just a 90º angle at each end?

On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:18:32 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I'm not looking to start another discussion related to the proper techniques for
jacking up and supporting a vehicle. That subject has been discussed ad nauseam.

My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

Based on the date that this first video was published, I think this is the newest
version of the RennStand.

Video Published on May 10, 2017
https://youtu.be/yqXIrSVQ3ts

The following appears to be an earlier version of the RennStand, based on the
date that the video was published:

Video Published on Oct 13, 2016
https://youtu.be/tfk5UF7rbuM

Maybe it's just me, but both the angled welds and the curved sections of the
support bars seem like dangerous points of failure.
If reasonably built both would be very safe. Poorly built, even the
"best" current designs are dangerous.

On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:31:56 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

On 8/10/17 6:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm not looking to start another discussion related to the proper techniques for
jacking up and supporting a vehicle. That subject has been discussed ad nauseam.

My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

Based on the date that this first video was published, I think this is the newest
version of the RennStand.

Video Published on May 10, 2017
https://youtu.be/yqXIrSVQ3ts

The following appears to be an earlier version of the RennStand, based on the
date that the video was published:

Video Published on Oct 13, 2016
https://youtu.be/tfk5UF7rbuM

Maybe it's just me, but both the angled welds and the curved sections of the
support bars seem like dangerous points of failure.

It would seem stronger without the angles. Also, wouldn't the
jacks be a bit simpler
to make if there was just a 90º angle at each end?
You are looking at "cheman engineering" - when did simple to
construct win out over elegent design?? (other than the first beetles.

On 8/10/2017 7:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm not looking to start another discussion related to the proper techniques for
jacking up and supporting a vehicle. That subject has been discussed ad nauseam.

My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

Based on the date that this first video was published, I think this is the newest
version of the RennStand.

Video Published on May 10, 2017
https://youtu.be/yqXIrSVQ3ts

The following appears to be an earlier version of the RennStand, based on the
date that the video was published:

Video Published on Oct 13, 2016
https://youtu.be/tfk5UF7rbuM

Maybe it's just me, but both the angled welds and the curved sections of the
support bars seem like dangerous points of failure.


If I had to compare it to architectural designing, the arch support
entryway is stronger than the basic square (90 degree) entryway. The
same for arch bridges. The weight is distributed more evenly in all
angles than compared to all the weight at the ell angle.

I would use it but I prefer the the conventional jack stands.

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 9:34:01 PM UTC-4, Meanie wrote:
On 8/10/2017 7:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm not looking to start another discussion related to the proper techniques for
jacking up and supporting a vehicle. That subject has been discussed ad nauseam.

My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

Based on the date that this first video was published, I think this is the newest
version of the RennStand.

Video Published on May 10, 2017
https://youtu.be/yqXIrSVQ3ts

The following appears to be an earlier version of the RennStand, based on the
date that the video was published:

Video Published on Oct 13, 2016
https://youtu.be/tfk5UF7rbuM

Maybe it's just me, but both the angled welds and the curved sections of the
support bars seem like dangerous points of failure.


If I had to compare it to architectural designing, the arch support
entryway is stronger than the basic square (90 degree) entryway.

But most arch support entryways don't have 4 welds as possible points of
failure. It's not the arch shape that bothers me, it's the welds.

The
same for arch bridges. The weight is distributed more evenly in all
angles than compared to all the weight at the ell angle.

I would use it but I prefer the the conventional jack stands.

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 8:14:41 PM UTC-4, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:18:32 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I'm not looking to start another discussion related to the proper techniques for
jacking up and supporting a vehicle. That subject has been discussed ad nauseam.

My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

Based on the date that this first video was published, I think this is the newest
version of the RennStand.

Video Published on May 10, 2017
https://youtu.be/yqXIrSVQ3ts

The following appears to be an earlier version of the RennStand, based on the
date that the video was published:

Video Published on Oct 13, 2016
https://youtu.be/tfk5UF7rbuM

Maybe it's just me, but both the angled welds and the curved sections of the
support bars seem like dangerous points of failure.

The angled and curved pieces are types of arches. The load is easily
transferred through those structures to the abutments resting on the
ground. As long as the welds are created properly (can be said about
everything which is welded), the structure of the jack stands appears
quite sound.

I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

I'm sure they're fine, I just don't want to be worrying about them while I'm
under the vehicle.

On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 18:49:23 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 9:34:01 PM UTC-4, Meanie wrote:
On 8/10/2017 7:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I'm not looking to start another discussion related to the proper techniques for
jacking up and supporting a vehicle. That subject has been discussed ad nauseam.

My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

Based on the date that this first video was published, I think this is the newest
version of the RennStand.

Video Published on May 10, 2017
https://youtu.be/yqXIrSVQ3ts

The following appears to be an earlier version of the RennStand, based on the
date that the video was published:

Video Published on Oct 13, 2016
https://youtu.be/tfk5UF7rbuM

Maybe it's just me, but both the angled welds and the curved sections of the
support bars seem like dangerous points of failure.


If I had to compare it to architectural designing, the arch support
entryway is stronger than the basic square (90 degree) entryway.

But most arch support entryways don't have 4 welds as possible points of
failure. It's not the arch shape that bothers me, it's the welds.

The
same for arch bridges. The weight is distributed more evenly in all
angles than compared to all the weight at the ell angle.

I would use it but I prefer the the conventional jack stands.


Architectural arches are often made of MANY parts - tied together with
lime cement (mortar)
A GOOD weld doesn't scare me.

On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 19:00:22 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 8:14:41 PM UTC-4, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:18:32 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I'm not looking to start another discussion related to the proper techniques for
jacking up and supporting a vehicle. That subject has been discussed ad nauseam.

My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

Based on the date that this first video was published, I think this is the newest
version of the RennStand.

Video Published on May 10, 2017
https://youtu.be/yqXIrSVQ3ts

The following appears to be an earlier version of the RennStand, based on the
date that the video was published:

Video Published on Oct 13, 2016
https://youtu.be/tfk5UF7rbuM

Maybe it's just me, but both the angled welds and the curved sections of the
support bars seem like dangerous points of failure.

The angled and curved pieces are types of arches. The load is easily
transferred through those structures to the abutments resting on the
ground. As long as the welds are created properly (can be said about
everything which is welded), the structure of the jack stands appears
quite sound.

I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

I'm sure they're fine, I just don't want to be worrying about them while I'm
under the vehicle.
The arch weld is likely a better solution than the legs being welded
to the end of the top tube, and 2 angled welds are likely stronger
than a single weld holding the leg to the bottom of the cross tube.
Look at the load distribution - combination of compression and shear.

They actually look pretty good to me. Any structural engineers out
there??

On 08/10/2017 05:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

I'd feel safe but I'd also feel safe with a jack stand that doesn't cost
$140. If you're worried about the welds I'm surprised you're not looking
at the pins and wondering what their shear strength is. Ultimately
that's what is going to hold the weight up.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 11 Aug 2017 03:19:54 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

I'm sure they're fine, I just don't want to be worrying about them while I'm
under the vehicle.

I am glad you understand arches.

I wonder, do you worry about all of the welds you "didn't do"
throughout the course of every day? All of the vehicles on the roads,
airplanes, trains, elevators, staircases, bridges, etc, when you are
in a position to be harmed by a failure?

I bought the shop manual for my 2004 Sebring, and it has 95 pages of
Location of Welds.

I don't understand it. They need to know where the welds go when they
build the car, but when people fix it, how often do welds break? And if
a mechanic finds a broken one, he should reweld it.

He's certainly not going to check out the welds before they break.



I hope not.

The fact of the matter is, in modern manufacturing, a great percentage
of welds are made by robotic welding apparatus. Whereas they are not
perfect, I suspect they create welds which are far superior to the
average human operator.

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 11:59:07 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 08/10/2017 05:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

I'd feel safe but I'd also feel safe with a jack stand that doesn't cost
$140. If you're worried about the welds I'm surprised you're not looking
at the pins and wondering what their shear strength is. Ultimately
that's what is going to hold the weight up.

I don't need to wonder about the shear strength of the pins because the spec
is given in the video.

On 8/10/2017 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


The angled and curved pieces are types of arches. The load is easily
transferred through those structures to the abutments resting on the
ground. As long as the welds are created properly (can be said about
everything which is welded), the structure of the jack stands appears
quite sound.

I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

I'm sure they're fine, I just don't want to be worrying about them while I'm
under the vehicle.


You trust your life to welds most every day crossing bridges, using
elevators. I don't crawl under a car unless it has two supports though.

On 8/11/2017 2:30 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 11 Aug 2017 03:19:54 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

I'm sure they're fine, I just don't want to be worrying about them while I'm
under the vehicle.

I am glad you understand arches.

I wonder, do you worry about all of the welds you "didn't do"
throughout the course of every day? All of the vehicles on the roads,
airplanes, trains, elevators, staircases, bridges, etc, when you are
in a position to be harmed by a failure?

I bought the shop manual for my 2004 Sebring, and it has 95 pages of
Location of Welds.

I don't understand it. They need to know where the welds go when they
build the car, but when people fix it, how often do welds break? And if
a mechanic finds a broken one, he should reweld it.

He's certainly not going to check out the welds before they break.


Body shops and junk yards cut off sections from one car and weld it on
to another. I imagine they would want to know where they are.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 11 Aug 2017 08:46:45 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 8/11/2017 2:30 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 11 Aug 2017 03:19:54 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

I'm sure they're fine, I just don't want to be worrying about them while I'm
under the vehicle.

I am glad you understand arches.

I wonder, do you worry about all of the welds you "didn't do"
throughout the course of every day? All of the vehicles on the roads,
airplanes, trains, elevators, staircases, bridges, etc, when you are
in a position to be harmed by a failure?

I bought the shop manual for my 2004 Sebring, and it has 95 pages of
Location of Welds.

I don't understand it. They need to know where the welds go when they
build the car, but when people fix it, how often do welds break? And if
a mechanic finds a broken one, he should reweld it.

He's certainly not going to check out the welds before they break.


Body shops and junk yards cut off sections from one car and weld it on
to another. I imagine they would want to know where they are.

Okay. Makes sense.

Still annoying to spend so much space on this when there are other
things that are ignored. I've had shop manuals for about 7 other cars
from GM, Ford, Chrysler (84, 88, and 95), and Toyota, between 1966 and
now, and none of them had a separate section for this. I don't remember
if they were indicated elsewhere. This 2004 chrysler sebring manual has
mostly instructions on how to use the fancy tester I don't have. ($3000
second hand, iirc), and the Haynes manual, which used to just be
excerpts from the shop manual is now probably more useful to me than the
shop manual.

On 08/11/2017 12:30 AM, micky wrote:
I don't understand it. They need to know where the welds go when they
build the car, but when people fix it, how often do welds break? And if
a mechanic finds a broken one, he should reweld it.

If you had an Austin-Healey 3000 you would be very interested in welds...

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 11 Aug 2017 08:43:16 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 8/10/2017 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


The angled and curved pieces are types of arches. The load is easily
transferred through those structures to the abutments resting on the
ground. As long as the welds are created properly (can be said about
everything which is welded), the structure of the jack stands appears
quite sound.

I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

I'm sure they're fine, I just don't want to be worrying about them while I'm
under the vehicle.


You trust your life to welds most every day crossing bridges, using
elevators. I don't crawl under a car unless it has two supports though.

I had a set of jackstands, maybe from Western Auto, and a friend who
didn't weigh more than 160 was sitting in the drivers seat with his legs
out of the car, a Chrysler K-car that didn't weigh more than 3000
pounds, and had 3 wheels on the ground so the stand was supporting only
a little more than a quarter of the car, and the jackstand collapsed on
him.

Not this brand but something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Torin-T42002-...ds=jack+stands

I took it back but didn't want to spend extra for bigger, so like an
idiot, I accepted another box of the same thing that failed once.

A few years later when I was changing the right half axle on my car and
the ball joint, I was so afraid another would collapse that I used both
stands, another one, and 2 floor jacks and a scissors jack all at the
same time so I wouldn't get crushed. It was hard to get it to rest on
all of these at the same time.

On 8/10/2017 10:57 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 19:00:22 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 8:14:41 PM UTC-4, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Thu, 10 Aug 2017 16:18:32 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I'm not looking to start another discussion related to the proper techniques for
jacking up and supporting a vehicle. That subject has been discussed ad nauseam.

My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

Based on the date that this first video was published, I think this is the newest
version of the RennStand.

Video Published on May 10, 2017
https://youtu.be/yqXIrSVQ3ts

The following appears to be an earlier version of the RennStand, based on the
date that the video was published:

Video Published on Oct 13, 2016
https://youtu.be/tfk5UF7rbuM

Maybe it's just me, but both the angled welds and the curved sections of the
support bars seem like dangerous points of failure.

The angled and curved pieces are types of arches. The load is easily
transferred through those structures to the abutments resting on the
ground. As long as the welds are created properly (can be said about
everything which is welded), the structure of the jack stands appears
quite sound.

I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

I'm sure they're fine, I just don't want to be worrying about them while I'm
under the vehicle.
The arch weld is likely a better solution than the legs being welded
to the end of the top tube, and 2 angled welds are likely stronger
than a single weld holding the leg to the bottom of the cross tube.
Look at the load distribution - combination of compression and shear.

They actually look pretty good to me. Any structural engineers out
there??


I'm not an engineer but believe compressive strength is higher than
shear strength. Things are generally engineered with a high safety
factor, maybe 6X the limit given. I don't know how this product was
designed but would trust good engineer to design it.

I've worked in fibers, plastics and composites R&D and frequently see
poorly designed materials. I prefer to buy products that have been in
the market for many years and tested by time.

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 02:30:34 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 11 Aug 2017 03:19:54 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

I'm sure they're fine, I just don't want to be worrying about them while I'm
under the vehicle.

I am glad you understand arches.

I wonder, do you worry about all of the welds you "didn't do"
throughout the course of every day? All of the vehicles on the roads,
airplanes, trains, elevators, staircases, bridges, etc, when you are
in a position to be harmed by a failure?

I bought the shop manual for my 2004 Sebring, and it has 95 pages of
Location of Welds.

I don't understand it. They need to know where the welds go when they
build the car, but when people fix it, how often do welds break? And if
a mechanic finds a broken one, he should reweld it.

He's certainly not going to check out the welds before they break.


It's a "repair" manual. If bodywork is being done and components
replaced, it is VITAL to know where every spot weld is, so they can
all be drilled /cut out, and the repair welds done in all the
specified locations, following the specified repair procedures. This
is to ensure a "crash-worthy" repair.

I hope not.

The fact of the matter is, in modern manufacturing, a great percentage
of welds are made by robotic welding apparatus. Whereas they are not
perfect, I suspect they create welds which are far superior to the
average human operator.
If not "better" they are at the very least "more consistent" -
particularly in location.

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 03:50:55 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 11:59:07 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 08/10/2017 05:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

I'd feel safe but I'd also feel safe with a jack stand that doesn't cost
$140. If you're worried about the welds I'm surprised you're not looking
at the pins and wondering what their shear strength is. Ultimately
that's what is going to hold the weight up.

I don't need to wonder about the shear strength of the pins because the spec
is given in the video.
And as long as the weld strength excedes the shear strength of the
pins, it is NOT an issue. Generally (proper)welds are as strong or
stronger than the base metal.

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 10:39:19 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 11 Aug 2017 08:43:16 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 8/10/2017 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


The angled and curved pieces are types of arches. The load is easily
transferred through those structures to the abutments resting on the
ground. As long as the welds are created properly (can be said about
everything which is welded), the structure of the jack stands appears
quite sound.

I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

I'm sure they're fine, I just don't want to be worrying about them while I'm
under the vehicle.


You trust your life to welds most every day crossing bridges, using
elevators. I don't crawl under a car unless it has two supports though.

I had a set of jackstands, maybe from Western Auto, and a friend who
didn't weigh more than 160 was sitting in the drivers seat with his legs
out of the car, a Chrysler K-car that didn't weigh more than 3000
pounds, and had 3 wheels on the ground so the stand was supporting only
a little more than a quarter of the car, and the jackstand collapsed on
him.


You can have 3 wheels "on the ground" and still have the jack stand
carrying half the weight of the car -
Not this brand but something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Torin-T42002-...ds=jack+stands


A pair of 2000 lb stands can support 2000 lbs, not 4000. Stands are
solad AS A PAIR and the rating is FOR THE PAIR.. So, ONE stand is good
for 1000 lbs, not 2000 - and the curb weight of a K-Car is a minimum
of 2300 lbs. - so if ONE stand is supporting one side of the front of
the K-Car, it will be shifting the weight of the car to the opposite
rear wheel - taking load off both the opposite front and the same-side
rear wheel - so the stand is taking a load SUBSTANTIALLY over 1000
lbs.

If 2 stands are used under one side of a car, the car transfers weight
to the opposite side, and the 2 stands combined are holdinf
substantially UNDER half the weight of the car.
If the 2 stands are used under the front of the car, depending where
the stands are located they can either transfer load to the rear
wheels or take load off the rear wheels - so the stands can be taking
close to half the weight of the car, or substantially more. 2 to jack
stands are "light duty" stands. Knowing how to use them properly is
required to be safe.

This doesn't take into account the folly of using them on irregular or
soft surfaces, which can put over 30% more load on each of 3 legs
contacting the floor if one is not contacting the floor.
I took it back but didn't want to spend extra for bigger, so like an
idiot, I accepted another box of the same thing that failed once.

A few years later when I was changing the right half axle on my car and
the ball joint, I was so afraid another would collapse that I used both
stands, another one, and 2 floor jacks and a scissors jack all at the
same time so I wouldn't get crushed. It was hard to get it to rest on
all of these at the same time.

i use 4 of these:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GJJZ5NI

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 14:55:36 -0400, Joe wrote:

i use 4 of these:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GJJZ5NI

Wow. The 6000 lb. is cheaper than the 4000 lb. one.

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 6:51:04 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 11:59:07 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 08/10/2017 05:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

I'd feel safe but I'd also feel safe with a jack stand that doesn't cost
$140. If you're worried about the welds I'm surprised you're not looking
at the pins and wondering what their shear strength is. Ultimately
that's what is going to hold the weight up.

I don't need to wonder about the shear strength of the pins because the spec
is given in the video.

When I use Jack stands I put another big piece of I beam or similar wood under there too as a safety.

DerbyDad03 posted for all of us...



I'm not looking to start another discussion related to the proper techniques for
jacking up and supporting a vehicle. That subject has been discussed ad nauseam.

My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

Based on the date that this first video was published, I think this is the newest
version of the RennStand.

Video Published on May 10, 2017
https://youtu.be/yqXIrSVQ3ts

The following appears to be an earlier version of the RennStand, based on the
date that the video was published:

Video Published on Oct 13, 2016
https://youtu.be/tfk5UF7rbuM

Maybe it's just me, but both the angled welds and the curved sections of the
support bars seem like dangerous points of failure.

Welds and design look good to me.

--
Tekkie

On 08/10/2017 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

You wouldn't catch me under a car supported by those contraptions. I
use, and will continue to use solid blocks of wood.
And to your point, why bother with them when there are other safer options.

rbowman wrote in :

On 08/10/2017 05:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

I'd feel safe but I'd also feel safe with a jack stand that doesn't cost
$140. If you're worried about the welds I'm surprised you're not looking
at the pins and wondering what their shear strength is. Ultimately
that's what is going to hold the weight up.

I disagree. It looks to me like the strength of the contraption depends on the shear strength
of the curved tubes and the sheet metal stampings they fit into. Heavy gauge sheet metal
stampings, to be sure, but they're still sheet metal stampings. And I don't trust their shear
strength.

No way in the world am I crawling under a car supported only by these things.

DerbyDad03 wrote in news:4ea8a746-f3cf-4534-badb-
:

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 11:59:07 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 08/10/2017 05:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

I'd feel safe but I'd also feel safe with a jack stand that doesn't cost
$140. If you're worried about the welds I'm surprised you're not looking
at the pins and wondering what their shear strength is. Ultimately
that's what is going to hold the weight up.

I don't need to wonder about the shear strength of the pins because the spec
is given in the video.

You don't worry that the shear strength might not be up to spec? If it's made in Communist
China, I sure would -- I've encountered plenty of "Grade 8" ChiComm bolts that were no
harder than a US-made Grade 2.

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 6:10:23 PM UTC-4, Doug Miller wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in news:4ea8a746-f3cf-4534-badb-
:

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 11:59:07 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 08/10/2017 05:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

I'd feel safe but I'd also feel safe with a jack stand that doesn't cost
$140. If you're worried about the welds I'm surprised you're not looking
at the pins and wondering what their shear strength is. Ultimately
that's what is going to hold the weight up.

I don't need to wonder about the shear strength of the pins because the spec
is given in the video.

You don't worry that the shear strength might not be up to spec? If it's made in Communist
China, I sure would -- I've encountered plenty of "Grade 8" ChiComm bolts that were no
harder than a US-made Grade 2.

I didn't say "I don't need to worry", I said "I don't need to *wonder*"
because "wonder" was what rbowman was "surprised" about.

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:39:24 -0400, Andy wrote:

On 08/10/2017 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

You wouldn't catch me under a car supported by those contraptions. I
use, and will continue to use solid blocks of wood.
And to your point, why bother with them when there are other safer options.
Which way is the grain oriented? Using a piece of log, upright the
way it grows, is NOT a safe stand for most applications. Building a
pilon of stacked 4x4 "logs" is - but it's clumsy

I'm not convinced any other jack stand design is any safer

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 22:04:01 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

rbowman wrote in :

On 08/10/2017 05:18 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
My question is quite simple: Would you feel safe working under a vehicle that was
supported by either of these jack stands, assuming of course that you stayed
within the 2 ton rating of the device.

I'd feel safe but I'd also feel safe with a jack stand that doesn't cost
$140. If you're worried about the welds I'm surprised you're not looking
at the pins and wondering what their shear strength is. Ultimately
that's what is going to hold the weight up.

I disagree. It looks to me like the strength of the contraption depends on the shear strength
of the curved tubes and the sheet metal stampings they fit into. Heavy gauge sheet metal
stampings, to be sure, but they're still sheet metal stampings. And I don't trust their shear
strength.

No way in the world am I crawling under a car supported only by these things.
Looks like plate steel and tubing to me.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:19:19 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 02:30:34 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 11 Aug 2017 03:19:54 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

I'm sure they're fine, I just don't want to be worrying about them while I'm
under the vehicle.

I am glad you understand arches.

I wonder, do you worry about all of the welds you "didn't do"
throughout the course of every day? All of the vehicles on the roads,
airplanes, trains, elevators, staircases, bridges, etc, when you are
in a position to be harmed by a failure?

I bought the shop manual for my 2004 Sebring, and it has 95 pages of
Location of Welds.

I don't understand it. They need to know where the welds go when they
build the car, but when people fix it, how often do welds break? And if
a mechanic finds a broken one, he should reweld it.

He's certainly not going to check out the welds before they break.

Many modern passenger cars are designed and built using unibody
construction instead of the frame construction (ladder, X, etc.) used
on cars of yesteryear and still used on trucks, vans etc.

Unibody construction is far more dependent upon each weld in the
vehicle. Having a manual that provides details about each weld
certainly makes sense when an auto body repair shop needs to repair
and ensure the safety of a vehicle that has been involved in a crash.

Unibody might sound like a gimmick or a cluster ****, but, compared to
ladder and X frames that minimize damage to a vehicle, unibody limits
injury to occupants by absorbing and distributing collision forces
over much more of the vehicle. Sacrifice the vehicle to save the
occupants, a good trade if you ask me.

I don't know. My cuts and bruises heal by themselves but autobody work
is expensive!

Just kidding.

My 50 Olds had both an X frame and a box frame around the X. One time
at work I thought I would drive over a pile of dirt, so I gave it a
running start and only made it part way. When I got out of the car, all
four wheels were off the ground. Fortunately one of the 10 of us was
driving a little crane. He put me back on the ground and the car was
totally unhurt. And I guess the foreman didn't find out because I
didn't get fired.

(the dirt pile was about 4 feet tall.)

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 11 Aug 2017 12:41:58 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 02:30:34 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 11 Aug 2017 03:19:54 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

I'm sure they're fine, I just don't want to be worrying about them while I'm
under the vehicle.

I am glad you understand arches.

I wonder, do you worry about all of the welds you "didn't do"
throughout the course of every day? All of the vehicles on the roads,
airplanes, trains, elevators, staircases, bridges, etc, when you are
in a position to be harmed by a failure?

I bought the shop manual for my 2004 Sebring, and it has 95 pages of
Location of Welds.

I don't understand it. They need to know where the welds go when they
build the car, but when people fix it, how often do welds break? And if
a mechanic finds a broken one, he should reweld it.

He's certainly not going to check out the welds before they break.


It's a "repair" manual. If bodywork is being done and components
replaced, it is VITAL to know where every spot weld is, so they can
all be drilled /cut out, and the repair welds done in all the
specified locations, following the specified repair procedures. This
is to ensure a "crash-worthy" repair.

Thanks, Clare, and thanks everyone.

I hope not.

The fact of the matter is, in modern manufacturing, a great percentage
of welds are made by robotic welding apparatus. Whereas they are not
perfect, I suspect they create welds which are far superior to the
average human operator.

If not "better" they are at the very least "more consistent" -
particularly in location.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:49:20 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:39:24 -0400, Andy wrote:

On 08/10/2017 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

You wouldn't catch me under a car supported by those contraptions. I
use, and will continue to use solid blocks of wood.
And to your point, why bother with them when there are other safer options.
Which way is the grain oriented? Using a piece of log, upright the
way it grows, is NOT a safe stand for most applications. Building a
pilon of stacked 4x4 "logs" is - but it's clumsy

I'm not convinced any other jack stand design is any safer

I don't know what Derby does, but those guys who break a board with a
karate chop have the board oriented 90^ from the way it looks. People
are used to the grain running parallel to the long side of a board,
which makes it hard to break a board, but when they do it, the grain is
parallel to the short side. People look at the wood and think
otherwise, so the guy looks amazingly powerful. I find this all sort
of annoying.

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 9:48:12 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:49:20 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:39:24 -0400, Andy wrote:

On 08/10/2017 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

You wouldn't catch me under a car supported by those contraptions. I
use, and will continue to use solid blocks of wood.
And to your point, why bother with them when there are other safer options.
Which way is the grain oriented? Using a piece of log, upright the
way it grows, is NOT a safe stand for most applications. Building a
pilon of stacked 4x4 "logs" is - but it's clumsy

I'm not convinced any other jack stand design is any safer

I don't know what Derby does, but those guys who break a board with a
karate chop have the board oriented 90^ from the way it looks. People
are used to the grain running parallel to the long side of a board,
which makes it hard to break a board, but when they do it, the grain is
parallel to the short side. People look at the wood and think
otherwise, so the guy looks amazingly powerful. I find this all sort
of annoying.

I'm not quite why I'm mentioned here. I never said anything about wood or
grain patterns or karate chops. You may have me confused with someone else.

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 13:53:45 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 9:48:12 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:49:20 -0400,
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:39:24 -0400, Andy wrote:

On 08/10/2017 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.

You wouldn't catch me under a car supported by those contraptions. I
use, and will continue to use solid blocks of wood.
And to your point, why bother with them when there are other safer options.
Which way is the grain oriented? Using a piece of log, upright the
way it grows, is NOT a safe stand for most applications. Building a
pilon of stacked 4x4 "logs" is - but it's clumsy

I'm not convinced any other jack stand design is any safer

I don't know what Derby does, but those guys who break a board with a
karate chop have the board oriented 90^ from the way it looks. People
are used to the grain running parallel to the long side of a board,
which makes it hard to break a board, but when they do it, the grain is
parallel to the short side. People look at the wood and think
otherwise, so the guy looks amazingly powerful. I find this all sort
of annoying.

I'm not quite why I'm mentioned here. I never said anything about wood or
grain patterns or karate chops. You may have me confused with someone else.
He has you cofused with someone with thicker skin, it appears.

On 8/11/2017 8:49 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:39:24 -0400, Andy wrote:

On 08/10/2017 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.
You wouldn't catch me under a car supported by those contraptions. I
use, and will continue to use solid blocks of wood.
And to your point, why bother with them when there are other safer options.
Which way is the grain oriented? Using a piece of log, upright the
way it grows, is NOT a safe stand for most applications. Building a
pilon of stacked 4x4 "logs" is - but it's clumsy

I'm not convinced any other jack stand design is any safer


Yah, if you don't know the proper way to orient a block of wood, you'd better put your tools away and call a pro before you hurt yourself.

On 8/13/2017 1:20 PM, Dick Wood wrote:
On 8/11/2017 8:49 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:39:24 -0400, Andy wrote:

On 08/10/2017 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch
shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground"
option
exists.
You wouldn't catch me under a car supported by those contraptions. I
use, and will continue to use solid blocks of wood.
And to your point, why bother with them when there are other safer
options.
Which way is the grain oriented? Using a piece of log, upright the
way it grows, is NOT a safe stand for most applications. Building a
pilon of stacked 4x4 "logs" is - but it's clumsy

I'm not convinced any other jack stand design is any safer


Yah, if you don't know the proper way to orient a block of wood, you'd
better put your tools away and call a pro before you hurt yourself.



The 8 x 8 piece of hickory I have seems to work in any direction. It
held up a barn for decades before I got it.

On 08/13/2017 02:00 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 8/13/2017 1:20 PM, Dick Wood wrote:
On 8/11/2017 8:49 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:39:24 -0400, Andy wrote:

On 08/10/2017 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground" option
exists.
You wouldn't catch me under a car supported by those contraptions. I
use, and will continue to use solid blocks of wood.
And to your point, why bother with them when there are other safer options.
Which way is the grain oriented? Using a piece of log, upright the
way it grows, is NOT a safe stand for most applications. Building a
pilon of stacked 4x4 "logs" is - but it's clumsy

I'm not convinced any other jack stand design is any safer


Yah, if you don't know the proper way to orient a block of wood, you'd better put your tools away and call a pro before you hurt yourself.



The 8 x 8 piece of hickory I have seems to work in any direction. It held up a barn for decades before I got it.


Sure! Hickory jack stands are the best.

On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 14:00:26 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 8/13/2017 1:20 PM, Dick Wood wrote:
On 8/11/2017 8:49 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:39:24 -0400, Andy wrote:

On 08/10/2017 10:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I understand how arches work/transfer the load. It's not the arch
shape that
bothers me, it's the welds. Since I didn't do the welds, I'm not sure I
want to trust my life to them when a "straight down to the ground"
option
exists.
You wouldn't catch me under a car supported by those contraptions. I
use, and will continue to use solid blocks of wood.
And to your point, why bother with them when there are other safer
options.
Which way is the grain oriented? Using a piece of log, upright the
way it grows, is NOT a safe stand for most applications. Building a
pilon of stacked 4x4 "logs" is - but it's clumsy

I'm not convinced any other jack stand design is any safer


Yah, if you don't know the proper way to orient a block of wood, you'd
better put your tools away and call a pro before you hurt yourself.



The 8 x 8 piece of hickory I have seems to work in any direction. It
held up a barn for decades before I got it.
Old growth hickory would be hard to split even with an axe or maul -
so it would LIKELY be safe. I'd still ise any of my purpose built jack
stands ahead of the block of wood end-grade up, regartdless. I HAVE
used wood, and rocks, and all kinds of other stuff when stuck "in the
bush" when nothing else was available - but I was VERY carefull!!