As long as Donald Trump is in the Oval Office. I will no longer recite
the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the Star Spangled Banner, stand for the
American Flag, or participate in political holidays.

Trump is NOT my president, his America is NOT my America, or the
America written into the U.S. Constitution. I refuse to acknowledge
his Nazi-like dictatorship, his corrupt cabinet, or anything he
dictates, demands, or rules. Donald Trump is NOT an American leader,
and as long as he is in office, America is as good as DEAD.

Donald Trump will likely be the LAST (so called) President of the
United States of America. If this country does survive the next four
years, we will all be crawling out of the ashes, and have to begin
anew, under a few shreaded remnants of the former constitution.

I will however, support our Veterans from past wars, when America was
still a great country.

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 8:18:08 AM UTC-5, wrote:
As long as Donald Trump is in the Oval Office. I will no longer recite
the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the Star Spangled Banner, stand for the
American Flag, or participate in political holidays.

Trump is NOT my president, his America is NOT my America, or the
America written into the U.S. Constitution. I refuse to acknowledge
his Nazi-like dictatorship, his corrupt cabinet, or anything he
dictates, demands, or rules. Donald Trump is NOT an American leader,
and as long as he is in office, America is as good as DEAD.

Donald Trump will likely be the LAST (so called) President of the
United States of America. If this country does survive the next four
years, we will all be crawling out of the ashes, and have to begin
anew, under a few shreaded remnants of the former constitution.

I will however, support our Veterans from past wars, when America was
still a great country.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. If you want
to throw away the baby with the bathwater, go right
ahead. Even though I don't think Trump is qualified
to lead a barbershop quartet (let alone this great
nation), his election was Constitutional.

Now that you've had your tantrum, perhaps you should
think about the vast gulf between what presidential
candidates say they're going to do, what they think
they're going to do, and what they can actually
accomplish given the checks and balances built into
the system.

Cindy Hamilton

On 12/20/2016 06:15 AM, wrote:
As long as Donald Trump is in the Oval Office. I will no longer recite
the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the Star Spangled Banner, stand for the
American Flag, or participate in political holidays.

Who gives a ****, snowflake?

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 9:32:51 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 8:18:08 AM UTC-5, wrote:
As long as Donald Trump is in the Oval Office. I will no longer recite
the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the Star Spangled Banner, stand for the
American Flag, or participate in political holidays.

Trump is NOT my president, his America is NOT my America, or the
America written into the U.S. Constitution. I refuse to acknowledge
his Nazi-like dictatorship, his corrupt cabinet, or anything he
dictates, demands, or rules. Donald Trump is NOT an American leader,
and as long as he is in office, America is as good as DEAD.

Donald Trump will likely be the LAST (so called) President of the
United States of America. If this country does survive the next four
years, we will all be crawling out of the ashes, and have to begin
anew, under a few shreaded remnants of the former constitution.

I will however, support our Veterans from past wars, when America was
still a great country.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. If you want
to throw away the baby with the bathwater, go right
ahead. Even though I don't think Trump is qualified
to lead a barbershop quartet (let alone this great
nation), his election was Constitutional.

Now that you've had your tantrum, perhaps you should
think about the vast gulf between what presidential
candidates say they're going to do, what they think
they're going to do, and what they can actually
accomplish given the checks and balances built into
the system.

Cindy Hamilton

More likely this OP is just a Trumpet troll, IMO.

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 06:37:23 -0800 (PST)
trader_4 wrote:

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 9:32:51 AM UTC-5, Cindy Hamilton
wrote:
On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 8:18:08 AM UTC-5,
wrote:
As long as Donald Trump is in the Oval Office. I will no longer
recite the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the Star Spangled Banner,
stand for the American Flag, or participate in political
holidays.

Trump is NOT my president, his America is NOT my America, or the
America written into the U.S. Constitution. I refuse to
acknowledge his Nazi-like dictatorship, his corrupt cabinet, or
anything he dictates, demands, or rules. Donald Trump is NOT an
American leader, and as long as he is in office, America is as
good as DEAD.

Donald Trump will likely be the LAST (so called) President of the
United States of America. If this country does survive the next
four years, we will all be crawling out of the ashes, and have to
begin anew, under a few shreaded remnants of the former
constitution.

I will however, support our Veterans from past wars, when America
was still a great country.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. If you want
to throw away the baby with the bathwater, go right
ahead. Even though I don't think Trump is qualified
to lead a barbershop quartet (let alone this great
nation), his election was Constitutional.

Now that you've had your tantrum, perhaps you should
think about the vast gulf between what presidential
candidates say they're going to do, what they think
they're going to do, and what they can actually
accomplish given the checks and balances built into
the system.

Cindy Hamilton

More likely this OP is just a Trumpet troll, IMO.

Your extreme adoration for hillary clinton, says
a lot about the caliber of women in your life,....LOL

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 11:17:54 AM UTC-5, FromTheRafters wrote:
pretended :
As long as Donald Trump is in the Oval Office. I will no longer recite
the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the Star Spangled Banner, stand for the
American Flag, or participate in political holidays.

Trump is NOT my president, his America is NOT my America, or the
America written into the U.S. Constitution. I refuse to acknowledge
his Nazi-like dictatorship, his corrupt cabinet, or anything he
dictates, demands, or rules. Donald Trump is NOT an American leader,
and as long as he is in office, America is as good as DEAD.

Donald Trump will likely be the LAST (so called) President of the
United States of America. If this country does survive the next four
years, we will all be crawling out of the ashes, and have to begin
anew, under a few shreaded remnants of the former constitution.

I will however, support our Veterans from past wars, when America was
still a great country.

The system works, Hillary was not the 'shoe-in' most people expected,
the people have spoken. Unfortunately, too many of 'the people' don't
know any better than to elect a demagogue. It might still work out
favorably if DJT is as smart as I think he is. IMO he 'used' the
trumpets as a means to an end just like many presidents before him.
Often candidates do bad things to get into a position where they can do
good things.


I agree he told the Trumpets what they wanted to hear. And now
he's waffling back. The classic was the 11 mil illegals who were
a bunch of rapists and drug runners, not like you, during the
election that were going to be immeadiately deported, every one
of them. Now they are mostly good people, who we need to treat "fairly"
and there will be no mass deportation.

But on the other hand, from what I also see, he really is dumb.
He's said he would issue an exec order, making killing a cop
a capital offense. He said we could negotiate with our bond
holders to repay only part of our national debt. He said another
option was to just borrow more and default. Maybe the best example
of stupidity was he said that if interest rates rise, we could
buy back our debt? Even a dumb homeowner knows you don't refinance
when rates rise. There is plenty more, like telling that whopping
lie about knowing Putin, being with him at 60 Mins, when it never
happened. Do smart, intelligent people do that?

He's also obviously ethically challenged. Best example of that is
him using other people's money from his foundation, where he hasn't
put in a dime himself in 7 years, to settle his own personal and
business lawsuits. That's in the same category as some of the stuff
the Clintons pull.

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 07:15:51 -0600, wrote in


As long as Donald Trump is in the Oval Office. I will no longer recite
the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the Star Spangled Banner, stand for the
American Flag, or participate in political holidays.

Why not just move to Canada?
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On 12/20/2016 8:15 AM, wrote:
As long as Donald Trump is in the Oval Office. I will no longer recite
the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the Star Spangled Banner, stand for the
American Flag, or participate in political holidays.

Trump is NOT my president, his America is NOT my America, or the
America written into the U.S. Constitution. I refuse to acknowledge
his Nazi-like dictatorship, his corrupt cabinet, or anything he
dictates, demands, or rules. Donald Trump is NOT an American leader,
and as long as he is in office, America is as good as DEAD.

Donald Trump will likely be the LAST (so called) President of the
United States of America. If this country does survive the next four
years, we will all be crawling out of the ashes, and have to begin
anew, under a few shreaded remnants of the former constitution.

I will however, support our Veterans from past wars, when America was
still a great country.



Move along Colin. We don't give a ****.

On 12/20/2016 07:15 AM, wrote:
As long as Donald Trump is in the Oval Office. I will no longer recite
the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the Star Spangled Banner, stand for the
American Flag, or participate in political holidays.

[snip]

What if Trump surprises everyone and turns into the best president this
country has ever had?

wrote:

As long as Donald Trump is in the Oval Office. I will no longer recite
the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the Star Spangled Banner, stand for the
American Flag, or participate in political holidays.

Will you no longer pay taxes?

On 12/20/2016 4:34 PM, Hilde D wrote:
On 12/20/2016 07:15 AM, wrote:
As long as Donald Trump is in the Oval Office. I will no longer recite
the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the Star Spangled Banner, stand for the
American Flag, or participate in political holidays.

[snip]

What if Trump surprises everyone and turns into the best president this country has ever had?


The democraps are lazy leeches and don't want to work. They want free health care, food and housing paid for by working taxpayers. They will never be happy with President Trump.

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 7:18:08 AM UTC-6, wrote:
As long as Donald Trump is in the Oval Office.


Oh gosh, a new sock puppet joins the "conversation."

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 14:45:28 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

throwing people's proclaimed religious dogma into
their faces just isn't fair.....

Any bozo can do that. Not everyone can have a coherent discussion
about religious beliefs.

--
Maggie

Muggles expressed precisely :
On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 14:45:28 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

throwing people's proclaimed religious dogma into
their faces just isn't fair.....

Any bozo can do that. Not everyone can have a coherent discussion about
religious beliefs.

Talk about an oxymoron! "A coherent discussion about religious
beliefs", for Pete's sake........

ROFLMAO

On 2016-12-21, Sterling Archer wrote:

Muggles expressed precisely :

Not everyone can have a coherent discussion about
religious beliefs.

"A coherent discussion about religious beliefs", for Pete's
sake........

ROFLMAO

Gotta admit, that's funny!

nb

On 2016-12-21, Sterling Archer wrote:
I read this three times and agree with FromTheRafters, it was very well
stated.

Bull****. Identify the illegals, round them up, and give them a good
swift kick in the ass as they're tossed across the border. Then if they
want to apply for entry legally, they can get in line.

Then we can get on with the important business of crushing the Left
in this country. Kick 'em to the curb. Kick 'em hard. Make it hurt.
Their tears are delicious, their screams are music to my ears.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roger Blake explained :
On 2016-12-21, Sterling Archer wrote:
I read this three times and agree with FromTheRafters, it was very well
stated.

Bull****. Identify the illegals, round them up, and give them a good
swift kick in the ass as they're tossed across the border. Then if they
want to apply for entry legally, they can get in line.

Then we can get on with the important business of crushing the Left
in this country. Kick 'em to the curb. Kick 'em hard. Make it hurt.
Their tears are delicious, their screams are music to my ears.

Pathetic, it is your own words which condemn you. Hopefully, your
judge will show compassion.

On 12/21/2016 1:57 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


Might be a good idea for some people to look beyond their hatred and
try acting like compassionate citizens of the wealthiest nation which
has ever existed.

Secure the border, close and lock the door, don't beat the crap out of
people who have come in out of the cold to get warm and earn their
daily bread.

I can go with that. Even the Native

Americans came from someplace else and all four of my grandparents did
too. So did some of everyone elses here.

We bitch about the illegals but in reality we need at least some of them
to do the jobs we won't do. Sure, some tune up of the system is needed
but we don't need a wall

On 2016-12-21, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

We bitch about the illegals but in reality we need at least some of them
to do the jobs we won't do.


(comedian) "My wife sez I don't love her, anymore. Aren't the
illegals doing the jobs we don't wanna do?"

......concerning home security:

(comedian's wife) "I could be raped!"

(comediean) "What do YOUR fantasies have to do with it?"

(comedian's wife) "I could be killed!!"

(comedian) "What do MY fantasies have to do with it?"

nb

On 12/21/2016 3:57 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/21/2016 1:57 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


Might be a good idea for some people to look beyond their hatred and
try acting like compassionate citizens of the wealthiest nation which
has ever existed.

Secure the border, close and lock the door, don't beat the crap out of
people who have come in out of the cold to get warm and earn their
daily bread.

I can go with that. Even the Native

Americans came from someplace else and all four of my grandparents did
too. So did some of everyone elses here.

We bitch about the illegals but in reality we need at least some of them
to do the jobs we won't do. Sure, some tune up of the system is needed
but we don't need a wall

That's one of the main arguments. If they weren't doing the jobs we
don't want to do, there would be those who will eventually do them when
their livelihood is on the line. The illegal alien stigma is attached to
those jobs establishing the belief they are poor or mediocre positions.
I would work those jobs if my livelihood depended on it.

On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 15:57:16 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/21/2016 1:57 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


Might be a good idea for some people to look beyond their hatred and
try acting like compassionate citizens of the wealthiest nation which
has ever existed.

Secure the border, close and lock the door, don't beat the crap out of
people who have come in out of the cold to get warm and earn their
daily bread.

I can go with that. Even the Native

Americans came from someplace else and all four of my grandparents did
too. So did some of everyone elses here.

We bitch about the illegals but in reality we need at least some of them
to do the jobs we won't do. Sure, some tune up of the system is needed
but we don't need a wall

Right on, Ed!

On 21 Dec 2016 21:16:30 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2016-12-21, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

We bitch about the illegals but in reality we need at least some of them
to do the jobs we won't do.


(comedian) "My wife sez I don't love her, anymore. Aren't the
illegals doing the jobs we don't wanna do?"

.....concerning home security:

(comedian's wife) "I could be raped!"

(comediean) "What do YOUR fantasies have to do with it?"

(comedian's wife) "I could be killed!!"

(comedian) "What do MY fantasies have to do with it?"

nb

Henny Youngman?

On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 3:40:58 PM UTC-5, Roger Blake wrote:
On 2016-12-21, Sterling Archer wrote:
I read this three times and agree with FromTheRafters, it was very well
stated.

Bull****. Identify the illegals, round them up, and give them a good
swift kick in the ass as they're tossed across the border. Then if they
want to apply for entry legally, they can get in line.

I guess you don't follow the news much, even the Trump channel.
Trump said weeks ago, after winning the election, that those 11 mil illegals
who were a bunch of rapists, not like you, well, now they are "good people",
who we have to be "fair to". Trumps words, not mine. Hence he will only
be deporting the criminal ones, the rest are TBD. That is the position
of Bush, Rubio, Kasich, etc. Only difference is they were honest, while
Trump lied to you Trumpets.



Then we can get on with the important business of crushing the Left
in this country. Kick 'em to the curb. Kick 'em hard. Make it hurt.
Their tears are delicious, their screams are music to my ears.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com
Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 3:39:38 PM UTC-5, Meanie wrote:



In that same sense, we should allow all those who committed illegal
activities to continue on because they've established their habit.
Thieves should continue using the items they stole, drivers should
continue breaking the road laws, etc. because it would be unchristian to
destroy their adapted habit.


Good comparison. What is the statute of limitation for theft,
which I think most people would consider more serious than entering
the country illegally. It's just a few years. What happens if the
govt ignores the crime, does nothing and those few years pass?


Next!




An American proverb teaches:

€œDont judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes€�

Might be a good idea for some people to look beyond their hatred and
try acting like compassionate citizens of the wealthiest nation which
has ever existed.

Secure the border, close and lock the door, don't beat the crap out of
people who have come in out of the cold to get warm and earn their
daily bread.


The government has dropped the ball on this activity and turned a blind
eye to the problem, Yet, when finally a candidate states the idea of
building a wall or some other barrier, he's viewed as a lunatic and
"haters" can't stop complaining about him especially while preaching to
look beyond the hatred. Hypocrisy at it's best.

For many of us, the wall isn't the reason we dislike Trump. He said
far more than that, like portraying illegals as a bunch of rapists,'
drug runners, not like you and you. "I guess some are good people".
That, starting the divisive BS with the Mexican American judge, those
are the defining racist, stupid things.

On 2016-12-21, Stormin' Norman wrote:

Henny Youngman?

I heard it from Nick DiPaolo

nb

On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 4:30:38 PM UTC-5, Meanie wrote:
On 12/21/2016 3:57 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/21/2016 1:57 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


Might be a good idea for some people to look beyond their hatred and
try acting like compassionate citizens of the wealthiest nation which
has ever existed.

Secure the border, close and lock the door, don't beat the crap out of
people who have come in out of the cold to get warm and earn their
daily bread.

I can go with that. Even the Native

Americans came from someplace else and all four of my grandparents did
too. So did some of everyone elses here.

We bitch about the illegals but in reality we need at least some of them
to do the jobs we won't do. Sure, some tune up of the system is needed
but we don't need a wall

That's one of the main arguments. If they weren't doing the jobs we
don't want to do, there would be those who will eventually do them when
their livelihood is on the line.

ROFL. To do that would require getting rid of unemployment payments,
SSI, welfare, food stamps and all the other aid available today.
What are the chances of that happening?

I friend of mine builds golf courses. We was building one outside
NYC and put ads in every place possible to attract people from NYC,
the poor areas. You know how many he got? None. He uses Costa Ricans.
Those guys bust their ass for $15 an hour all day long. Even if you
could get an American for $30, they'd be on their cell phone, bitching,
filing for slip and falls, filing discrimination complaints, and not
doing much work.



The illegal alien stigma is attached to
those jobs establishing the belief they are poor or mediocre positions.
I would work those jobs if my livelihood depended on it.

Most Americans would be dead the first day because they couldn't take it.
But they wouldn't get that far. They'd be loafing off, getting fired,
collecting unemployment, filing for worker's comp, SSI, etc.

On 12/21/2016 6:01 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 3:39:38 PM UTC-5, Meanie wrote:



In that same sense, we should allow all those who committed illegal
activities to continue on because they've established their habit.
Thieves should continue using the items they stole, drivers should
continue breaking the road laws, etc. because it would be unchristian to
destroy their adapted habit.


Good comparison. What is the statute of limitation for theft,
which I think most people would consider more serious than entering
the country illegally. It's just a few years. What happens if the
govt ignores the crime, does nothing and those few years pass?


Next!




An American proverb teaches:

€œDont judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes€�

Might be a good idea for some people to look beyond their hatred and
try acting like compassionate citizens of the wealthiest nation which
has ever existed.

Secure the border, close and lock the door, don't beat the crap out of
people who have come in out of the cold to get warm and earn their
daily bread.


The government has dropped the ball on this activity and turned a blind
eye to the problem, Yet, when finally a candidate states the idea of
building a wall or some other barrier, he's viewed as a lunatic and
"haters" can't stop complaining about him especially while preaching to
look beyond the hatred. Hypocrisy at it's best.

For many of us, the wall isn't the reason we dislike Trump. He said
far more than that, like portraying illegals as a bunch of rapists,'
drug runners, not like you and you. "I guess some are good people".
That, starting the divisive BS with the Mexican American judge, those
are the defining racist, stupid things.


I won't dispute that. He has a tendency to speak too much. It just
doesn't bother me as much and of course, the lesser of two evils had to
be him cause I would have left the country if Hillary won. ; )

On 12/21/2016 6:07 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 4:30:38 PM UTC-5, Meanie wrote:
On 12/21/2016 3:57 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/21/2016 1:57 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


Might be a good idea for some people to look beyond their hatred and
try acting like compassionate citizens of the wealthiest nation which
has ever existed.

Secure the border, close and lock the door, don't beat the crap out of
people who have come in out of the cold to get warm and earn their
daily bread.

I can go with that. Even the Native

Americans came from someplace else and all four of my grandparents did
too. So did some of everyone elses here.

We bitch about the illegals but in reality we need at least some of them
to do the jobs we won't do. Sure, some tune up of the system is needed
but we don't need a wall

That's one of the main arguments. If they weren't doing the jobs we
don't want to do, there would be those who will eventually do them when
their livelihood is on the line.

ROFL. To do that would require getting rid of unemployment payments,
SSI, welfare, food stamps and all the other aid available today.
What are the chances of that happening?

I friend of mine builds golf courses. We was building one outside
NYC and put ads in every place possible to attract people from NYC,
the poor areas. You know how many he got? None. He uses Costa Ricans.
Those guys bust their ass for $15 an hour all day long. Even if you
could get an American for $30, they'd be on their cell phone, bitching,
filing for slip and falls, filing discrimination complaints, and not
doing much work.



The illegal alien stigma is attached to
those jobs establishing the belief they are poor or mediocre positions.
I would work those jobs if my livelihood depended on it.

Most Americans would be dead the first day because they couldn't take it.
But they wouldn't get that far. They'd be loafing off, getting fired,
collecting unemployment, filing for worker's comp, SSI, etc.


Agreed. The government teat is feeding the lazy American workers and
that is a problem. If they were eliminated or drastically reduced, I
believe they'd consider doing those $15 hour jobs.

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 13:15:51 -0000, wrote:

As long as Donald Trump is in the Oval Office. I will no longer recite
the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the Star Spangled Banner, stand for the
American Flag, or participate in political holidays.

Trump is NOT my president, his America is NOT my America, or the
America written into the U.S. Constitution. I refuse to acknowledge
his Nazi-like dictatorship, his corrupt cabinet, or anything he
dictates, demands, or rules. Donald Trump is NOT an American leader,
and as long as he is in office, America is as good as DEAD.

Donald Trump will likely be the LAST (so called) President of the
United States of America. If this country does survive the next four
years, we will all be crawling out of the ashes, and have to begin
anew, under a few shreaded remnants of the former constitution.

I will however, support our Veterans from past wars, when America was
still a great country.

You lost, loser. Live with it.

--
Ken Brown commentating on golfer Nick Faldo and his caddie Fanny Sunneson lining-up shots at the Scottish Open: "Some weeks Nick likes to use Fanny, other weeks he prefers to do it by himself."

On 12/21/2016 06:51 AM, Stormin' Norman wrote:

[snip]

Kindergarten refresher: Two wrongs never equal a right.

but two wrights make a airplane. :-)

--
"Those who believe in hell can never know truth, for they are blinded by
fear." -- Emmet F. Fields

On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 14:53:17 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:



Did you see where GFRE reported that Bob Dole got $140K from the Taiwan
govt over the last few months to lobby Trump to change US position on
Taiwan? To take that call that supposedly came out of the blue? Dole
gets $25K a month in retainer. Et tu, Trump? He was the guy that was
gonna end pay-to-play, drain the swamp. Yet here he is, not even in
office, and he's being worked by a paid lobbyist for Taiwan. Wow,
that's a new low, even by Clinton standards. Oh, and Newt just said
that he's been told by the Trump team not to use the term "drain the
swamp" anymore, either.

"Drain the swamp" is kaput.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/21/politi...ain-the-swamp/

On 12/21/2016 06:00 PM, James Wilkinson Sword wrote:
On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 13:15:51 -0000, wrote:

As long as Donald Trump is in the Oval Office. I will no longer recite
the Pledge of Allegiance, sing the Star Spangled Banner, stand for the
American Flag, or participate in political holidays.

Trump is NOT my president, his America is NOT my America, or the
America written into the U.S. Constitution. I refuse to acknowledge
his Nazi-like dictatorship, his corrupt cabinet, or anything he
dictates, demands, or rules. Donald Trump is NOT an American leader,
and as long as he is in office, America is as good as DEAD.

Donald Trump will likely be the LAST (so called) President of the
United States of America. If this country does survive the next four
years, we will all be crawling out of the ashes, and have to begin
anew, under a few shreaded remnants of the former constitution.

I will however, support our Veterans from past wars, when America was
still a great country.

You lost, loser. Live with it.


1+

Some people do not know how to behave or even belong in a republic.

On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 6:01:32 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, December 21, 2016 at 3:39:38 PM UTC-5, Meanie wrote:



In that same sense, we should allow all those who committed illegal
activities to continue on because they've established their habit.
Thieves should continue using the items they stole, drivers should
continue breaking the road laws, etc. because it would be unchristian to
destroy their adapted habit.


Good comparison. What is the statute of limitation for theft,
which I think most people would consider more serious than entering
the country illegally. It's just a few years. What happens if the
govt ignores the crime, does nothing and those few years pass?


Next!




An American proverb teaches:

€œDont judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes€�

Might be a good idea for some people to look beyond their hatred and
try acting like compassionate citizens of the wealthiest nation which
has ever existed.

Secure the border, close and lock the door, don't beat the crap out of
people who have come in out of the cold to get warm and earn their
daily bread.


The government has dropped the ball on this activity and turned a blind
eye to the problem, Yet, when finally a candidate states the idea of
building a wall or some other barrier, he's viewed as a lunatic and
"haters" can't stop complaining about him especially while preaching to
look beyond the hatred. Hypocrisy at it's best.

For many of us, the wall isn't the reason we dislike Trump. He said
far more than that, like portraying illegals as a bunch of rapists,'
drug runners, not like you and you. "I guess some are good people".
That, starting the divisive BS with the Mexican American judge, those
are the defining racist, stupid things.

Theft is a single act. Being an illegal alien is ongoing.

Cindy Hamilton

On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 15:57:16 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/21/2016 1:57 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


Might be a good idea for some people to look beyond their hatred and
try acting like compassionate citizens of the wealthiest nation which
has ever existed.

Secure the border, close and lock the door, don't beat the crap out of
people who have come in out of the cold to get warm and earn their
daily bread.

I can go with that. Even the Native

Americans came from someplace else and all four of my grandparents did
too. So did some of everyone elses here.

We bitch about the illegals but in reality we need at least some of them
to do the jobs we won't do. Sure, some tune up of the system is needed
but we don't need a wall

What is your objection to a border barrier, be it a fencing or walls?

A proper barrier would dramatically reduce the number of human
officers on the border and would dramatically reduce costs and
increase security over the long term.

On Wed, 21 Dec 2016 17:24:18 -0500, FromTheRafters
wrote:



When asked, Trump wanted punishment for a woman who gets an abortion if
it were made illegal to do so. I agreed with him on that point, but
then he backed off. It seems he wants to pass yet another law and then
not enforce it. Isn't that just the sort of thing you rail against
above?


When it comes to abortion, the logical approach would be to grant to
all fetuses, of a certain age, the right of due process. No need to
outlaw abortion, however, if one wants to kill a child one must
present the case in a court of law with the fetus being assigned
representation.

I am constantly amazed how so many people are willing to bully and
exterminate the most defenseless of people simply because they cannot
defend themselves.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with extending basic human rights to
human fetuses and requiring due process prior to execution. Babies
should, at the very least, have the same rights as convicted
murderers.

On 12/22/2016 12:55 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:

We bitch about the illegals but in reality we need at least some of them
to do the jobs we won't do. Sure, some tune up of the system is needed
but we don't need a wall

What is your objection to a border barrier, be it a fencing or walls?

A proper barrier would dramatically reduce the number of human
officers on the border and would dramatically reduce costs and
increase security over the long term.


Check out how the illegals are getting here. 2/3 come by airplane. So
a $15billion wall (actual estimates are 15 to 20 B) will slow down a few
people that don't have a ladder or boat. While you are at it, take a
good look at where the border goes. There are buildings that straddle
the border. Do you partition them? Dam the rivers?

How do you stop people from digging under the wall? There are tunnels
already.

A wall may sound good at a political rally but from a practical point,
it is not going to work very well.

90 miles of ocean did not stop Cubans, don't expect much from a wall.

On 12/22/2016 1:04 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


When it comes to abortion, the logical approach would be to grant to
all fetuses, of a certain age, the right of due process. No need to
outlaw abortion, however, if one wants to kill a child one must
present the case in a court of law with the fetus being assigned
representation.

Step one it the rule that a fetus is a child. That has been
controversial since abortion became viable. I don't know of a single
person on either side that has ever changed their mind on that point.



There is absolutely nothing wrong with extending basic human rights to
human fetuses and requiring due process prior to execution. Babies
should, at the very least, have the same rights as convicted
murderers.


Babies do have the right. Your challenge is to convince the other side
that a fetus is a baby.

On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 17:14:23 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/22/2016 1:04 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


When it comes to abortion, the logical approach would be to grant to
all fetuses, of a certain age, the right of due process. No need to
outlaw abortion, however, if one wants to kill a child one must
present the case in a court of law with the fetus being assigned
representation.

Step one it the rule that a fetus is a child. That has been
controversial since abortion became viable. I don't know of a single
person on either side that has ever changed their mind on that point.



There is absolutely nothing wrong with extending basic human rights to
human fetuses and requiring due process prior to execution. Babies
should, at the very least, have the same rights as convicted
murderers.


Babies do have the right. Your challenge is to convince the other side
that a fetus is a baby.

I understand the obstacles, but if Trump is truly the conservative
messiah, it should be a simple matter for him to accomplish what I
have outlined above.

On Thu, 22 Dec 2016 17:09:31 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 12/22/2016 12:55 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:

We bitch about the illegals but in reality we need at least some of them
to do the jobs we won't do. Sure, some tune up of the system is needed
but we don't need a wall

What is your objection to a border barrier, be it a fencing or walls?

A proper barrier would dramatically reduce the number of human
officers on the border and would dramatically reduce costs and
increase security over the long term.


Check out how the illegals are getting here. 2/3 come by airplane. So
a $15billion wall (actual estimates are 15 to 20 B) will slow down a few
people that don't have a ladder or boat. While you are at it, take a
good look at where the border goes. There are buildings that straddle
the border. Do you partition them? Dam the rivers?

Can you provide a citation pertaining to how the existing 11 million
illegals arrived in this nation? I can find nothing to substantiate
your assertion.

For the sake of argument, let's say your numbers are accurate. If a
barrier can keep 3 million illegals from entering, then so be it. 3
million is the same number of people who were given amnesty by Reagan.

Building a border barrier has been discussed in this group previously.
It is not rocket science to build a double row, 30ft fence with
concertina wire, video surveillance, vibration and sound sensors.

Anyone who has served in the military or who has any civil engineering
background understands this is not insurmountable. As for the path,
you build the barrier where you can, you can easily build anywhere on
the US side of the border, if we need to put the fence one mile inside
the border, it makes no difference. If you need to deal with a north
south river, you either cross it or ensure it is a guarded and
patrolled point of entry, a very simple problem.


How do you stop people from digging under the wall? There are tunnels
already.

A wall may sound good at a political rally but from a practical point,
it is not going to work very well.

90 miles of ocean did not stop Cubans, don't expect much from a wall.


Your arguments seem to be intentionally obtuse. Border barriers are
effective all over the world. If we can deter 99% of illegal border
crossers with a barrier, that would be an excellent result. If the
cost of the barrier is $14 billion, well, that is pocket change
compared to the federal budget and the ultimate cost savings.

I will give you another chance, please explain your true objection to
a barrier?

On Thursday, December 22, 2016 at 5:14:26 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 12/22/2016 1:04 PM, Stormin' Norman wrote:


When it comes to abortion, the logical approach would be to grant to
all fetuses, of a certain age, the right of due process. No need to
outlaw abortion, however, if one wants to kill a child one must
present the case in a court of law with the fetus being assigned
representation.

Step one it the rule that a fetus is a child. That has been
controversial since abortion became viable. I don't know of a single
person on either side that has ever changed their mind on that point.



There is absolutely nothing wrong with extending basic human rights to
human fetuses and requiring due process prior to execution. Babies
should, at the very least, have the same rights as convicted
murderers.


Babies do have the right. Your challenge is to convince the other side
that a fetus is a baby.


But many times, when the govt charges people with manslaughter or
murder, if the victim is a pregnant woman, they file two counts, one
for the woman, one for the fetus. So, sounds like some states think
they have figured it out.