I've been looking at buying some LED Christmas lights but I'm curious about
the wiring harnesses.

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc. However, I'm curious as to
whether the wiring harnesses are any different/better than traditional
mini-light strings. Do LED's strings go bad in sections just like
traditional strings or are they wired such that each individual socket is
a stand alone entity?

I have a large number of mini-light Christmas strings. Straight, icicles and
swags. Every January I put away full working sets and every December I plug
the strings in to find bad sections scattered throughout. I try all the
standard bulb tricks and sometimes I can get the sections working, but
sometimes I can't.

I'm not talking about entire strings being bad, I mean that one or more 4'
section in a 21' string will be out. Then I have to buy new strings or
combine strings by cutting out bad sections and soldering in good ones. It's
a constant PITA.

Replacing all my strings with LED's would be a huge up-front expense, but
if I knew that I could pull them out every year and they would work, it
would be worth it.

On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 06:03:56 -0800 (PST)
DerbyDad03 wrote:

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc. However, I'm curious
as to whether the wiring harnesses are any different/better than
traditional mini-light strings.


Well golly gee buy one and look fer yourself.
Dam freeloader

On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 06:03:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I've been looking at buying some LED Christmas lights but I'm curious about
the wiring harnesses.

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc. However, I'm curious as to
whether the wiring harnesses are any different/better than traditional
mini-light strings. Do LED's strings go bad in sections just like
traditional strings or are they wired such that each individual socket is
a stand alone entity?

I have a large number of mini-light Christmas strings. Straight, icicles and
swags. Every January I put away full working sets and every December I plug
the strings in to find bad sections scattered throughout. I try all the
standard bulb tricks and sometimes I can get the sections working, but
sometimes I can't.

I'm not talking about entire strings being bad, I mean that one or more 4'
section in a 21' string will be out. Then I have to buy new strings or
combine strings by cutting out bad sections and soldering in good ones. It's
a constant PITA.

Replacing all my strings with LED's would be a huge up-front expense, but
if I knew that I could pull them out every year and they would work, it
would be worth it.

Unfortunately, the sockets are no better than the old ones. And, yes,
they are still in series with other bulbs. I have a bunch of 60 light
sets. They are made up of 2 series strings of 30 each. The bulbs do
last a very long time and they don't get broken by be dragged across
the driveway, but when a connection fails, all 30 light in that
segment go out. Like you said, sometimes you can fix them, sometimes
you can't. I would love to find a quality set with real sockets (or
maybe no sockets?), but it is hard to compete with Chinese sets
selling for a few dollars each. When we had incandescent, we replaced
them every year. It just wasn't worth the hassle to store them. When
they came out with warm white LEDs, we switched to them and started
storing them again. We are in the 4th year now. They have done much
better than the old ones, but I still had to swap out 4 bad strings
this year (out of about 40 - yes, we have a lot of lights).

On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 9:36:17 AM UTC-5, Pat wrote:
On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 06:03:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I've been looking at buying some LED Christmas lights but I'm curious about
the wiring harnesses.

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc. However, I'm curious as to
whether the wiring harnesses are any different/better than traditional
mini-light strings. Do LED's strings go bad in sections just like
traditional strings or are they wired such that each individual socket is
a stand alone entity?

I have a large number of mini-light Christmas strings. Straight, icicles and
swags. Every January I put away full working sets and every December I plug
the strings in to find bad sections scattered throughout. I try all the
standard bulb tricks and sometimes I can get the sections working, but
sometimes I can't.

I'm not talking about entire strings being bad, I mean that one or more 4'
section in a 21' string will be out. Then I have to buy new strings or
combine strings by cutting out bad sections and soldering in good ones. It's
a constant PITA.

Replacing all my strings with LED's would be a huge up-front expense, but
if I knew that I could pull them out every year and they would work, it
would be worth it.

Unfortunately, the sockets are no better than the old ones. And, yes,
they are still in series with other bulbs. I have a bunch of 60 light
sets. They are made up of 2 series strings of 30 each. The bulbs do
last a very long time and they don't get broken by be dragged across
the driveway, but when a connection fails, all 30 light in that
segment go out. Like you said, sometimes you can fix them, sometimes
you can't. I would love to find a quality set with real sockets (or
maybe no sockets?), but it is hard to compete with Chinese sets
selling for a few dollars each. When we had incandescent, we replaced
them every year. It just wasn't worth the hassle to store them. When
they came out with warm white LEDs, we switched to them and started
storing them again. We are in the 4th year now. They have done much
better than the old ones, but I still had to swap out 4 bad strings
this year (out of about 40 - yes, we have a lot of lights).

Thanks. That sucks.

Tip: Hang new icicle light strings in the garage. While pulling down
on the bottom bulb of each icicle, hit each socket with a heat gun for
a few seconds. The goal is to relax the main wire of each icicle so
they hang straighter.

It's much easier to do that on the ground than on a 28' ladder or hanging
over the railing of a deck. DAMHIKT :-)

On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 06:57:12 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Tip: Hang new icicle light strings in the garage. While pulling down
on the bottom bulb of each icicle, hit each socket with a heat gun for
a few seconds.

I'm older than dirt, in fact I attended the Wedding of Gilgamesh and
you still have more free time than I do....... ;-)

On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 10:45:45 AM UTC-5, Stormin' Norman wrote:
On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 06:57:12 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

Tip: Hang new icicle light strings in the garage. While pulling down
on the bottom bulb of each icicle, hit each socket with a heat gun for
a few seconds.

I'm older than dirt, in fact I attended the Wedding of Gilgamesh and
you still have more free time than I do....... ;-)

It's called multi-tasking. Football games on the garage TV. ;-)

Besides, it's an extra (maybe) 10 minutes per string and improves the
look immensely. If I'm going to spend the time to hang a few thousand
lights, they may as well look as good as possible. Maybe in the warmer
temps of your area the lights will relax themselves, but not where I live.

I also don't let the winter sunset times bother me. I solved that problem
with a 500W halogen work light mounted a pole that extends to about 10'.
While most other people have ended their day, I'm still going strong. I
quit hanging lights around 10PM last night, 5 hours after the sun went
down.

On 12/05/2016 08:03 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been looking at buying some LED Christmas lights but I'm curious about
the wiring harnesses.

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc.

Also, colors are more intense and don't fade, since the LED actually
produces that color instead of it being filtered by a coating that comes
off.

However, I'm curious as to
whether the wiring harnesses are any different/better than traditional
mini-light strings. Do LED's strings go bad in sections just like
traditional strings or are they wired such that each individual socket is
a stand alone entity?

I started using LED lights in 2005. There are some single-LED failures
(more blue/white than other colors). Most failed LEDs will still conduct
current (just won't light). There are some series (about 30 LEDs)
failures, but not as many as with incandescents.

I have a large number of mini-light Christmas strings. Straight, icicles and
swags. Every January I put away full working sets and every December I plug
the strings in to find bad sections scattered throughout. I try all the
standard bulb tricks and sometimes I can get the sections working, but
sometimes I can't.

I had some (but not much) success with that.

I'm not talking about entire strings being bad, I mean that one or more 4'
section in a 21' string will be out.

Small bulbs are better made for a low voltage, which explains the series
wiring. For miniature lights, I've seen 20,35, and 50-light series.
These use different bulbs. Most of what I had were 100-light strings,
with two 50-light series.

LEDs are low-voltage devices, so are also series-connected. I see series
of 25,30, or 35 LEDs (commonly in 2-series strings of 50,60,70). There
is also a few electronic components (at least the current-limiting
resistor) in one of more bulges in the wire.

Then I have to buy new strings or
combine strings by cutting out bad sections and soldering in good ones. It's
a constant PITA.

I have a few like that, sometimes a short string is useful. Something
I'd like to do sometime is replace the lights (35 mini incandescent now)
in the lighted canes.

Replacing all my strings with LED's would be a huge up-front expense, but
if I knew that I could pull them out every year and they would work, it
would be worth it.


LEDs themselves seem to be very reliable, but there are problems with
the cheap wiring. Also, there's no reason you need to replace ALL those
lights at once. I just had a few in 2005, more every year.

--
20 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do
because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." [Susan B.
Anthony]

On 12/05/2016 08:36 AM, Pat wrote:

[snip]

We are in the 4th year now. They have done much
better than the old ones, but I still had to swap out 4 bad strings
this year (out of about 40 - yes, we have a lot of lights).

I have about 100 LED strings. There were 2 series (one series wouldn't
light. Most strings have 2 series) failures when I tested them before
putting them out. Two more failed (series failure) the first day and
none in the next few days.

BTW, I have posted pictures on my website (notstupid.us/winter.php)
since 2000. I haven't done it this year yet.

--
20 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do
because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." [Susan B.
Anthony]

On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 2:15:27 PM UTC-5, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 12/05/2016 08:03 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been looking at buying some LED Christmas lights but I'm curious about
the wiring harnesses.

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc.

Also, colors are more intense and don't fade, since the LED actually
produces that color instead of it being filtered by a coating that comes
off.

However, I'm curious as to
whether the wiring harnesses are any different/better than traditional
mini-light strings. Do LED's strings go bad in sections just like
traditional strings or are they wired such that each individual socket is
a stand alone entity?

I started using LED lights in 2005. There are some single-LED failures
(more blue/white than other colors). Most failed LEDs will still conduct
current (just won't light). There are some series (about 30 LEDs)
failures, but not as many as with incandescents.

I have a large number of mini-light Christmas strings. Straight, icicles and
swags. Every January I put away full working sets and every December I plug
the strings in to find bad sections scattered throughout. I try all the
standard bulb tricks and sometimes I can get the sections working, but
sometimes I can't.

I had some (but not much) success with that.

I'm not talking about entire strings being bad, I mean that one or more 4'
section in a 21' string will be out.

Small bulbs are better made for a low voltage, which explains the series
wiring. For miniature lights, I've seen 20,35, and 50-light series.
These use different bulbs. Most of what I had were 100-light strings,
with two 50-light series.

LEDs are low-voltage devices, so are also series-connected. I see series
of 25,30, or 35 LEDs (commonly in 2-series strings of 50,60,70). There
is also a few electronic components (at least the current-limiting
resistor) in one of more bulges in the wire.

Then I have to buy new strings or
combine strings by cutting out bad sections and soldering in good ones. It's
a constant PITA.

I have a few like that, sometimes a short string is useful. Something
I'd like to do sometime is replace the lights (35 mini incandescent now)
in the lighted canes.

Replacing all my strings with LED's would be a huge up-front expense, but
if I knew that I could pull them out every year and they would work, it
would be worth it.


LEDs themselves seem to be very reliable, but there are problems with
the cheap wiring. Also, there's no reason you need to replace ALL those
lights at once. I just had a few in 2005, more every year.


True, but large groups would need to be done via a single purchase. I wouldn't
want to mix and match the ~1500 on the front of the house or the ~1000 on
the back deck or the 600 on the side fence or ~??? net lights on the
telephone pole, etc.

(Actually, the net lights never seem to have as much of a failure issue as
the strings.)

However, at this point it would actually be about the "light" itself not
about the strings. Since it doesn't appear that there would be any less
"string maintenance" (my main reason for switching) it's now down to the
look. But - and this is a big but - string failures will be more expensive
with LED's since replacements will cost more.

On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 06:03:56 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

I've been looking at buying some LED Christmas lights but I'm curious about
the wiring harnesses.

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc. However, I'm curious as to
whether the wiring harnesses are any different/better than traditional
mini-light strings. Do LED's strings go bad in sections just like
traditional strings or are they wired such that each individual socket is
a stand alone entity?

I have a large number of mini-light Christmas strings. Straight, icicles and
swags. Every January I put away full working sets and every December I plug
the strings in to find bad sections scattered throughout. I try all the
standard bulb tricks and sometimes I can get the sections working, but
sometimes I can't.

I'm not talking about entire strings being bad, I mean that one or more 4'
section in a 21' string will be out. Then I have to buy new strings or
combine strings by cutting out bad sections and soldering in good ones. It's
a constant PITA.

Replacing all my strings with LED's would be a huge up-front expense, but
if I knew that I could pull them out every year and they would work, it
would be worth it.
I have played with LED rope light and it is in sections and I imagine
LED strings are too. The up side is you don't have any lamp sockets
and that is usually where those cheap peanut light strings fail

DerbyDad03 posted for all of us...



I've been looking at buying some LED Christmas lights but I'm curious about
the wiring harnesses.

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc. However, I'm curious as to
whether the wiring harnesses are any different/better than traditional
mini-light strings. Do LED's strings go bad in sections just like
traditional strings or are they wired such that each individual socket is
a stand alone entity?

I have a large number of mini-light Christmas strings. Straight, icicles and
swags. Every January I put away full working sets and every December I plug
the strings in to find bad sections scattered throughout. I try all the
standard bulb tricks and sometimes I can get the sections working, but
sometimes I can't.

I'm not talking about entire strings being bad, I mean that one or more 4'
section in a 21' string will be out. Then I have to buy new strings or
combine strings by cutting out bad sections and soldering in good ones. It's
a constant PITA.

Replacing all my strings with LED's would be a huge up-front expense, but
if I knew that I could pull them out every year and they would work, it
would be worth it.

Sine they are diodes they are parallel wired, no sectional problems causes
by the LED.

--
Tekkie

On 12/5/2016 8:03 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been looking at buying some LED Christmas lights but I'm curious about
the wiring harnesses.

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc. However, I'm curious as to
whether the wiring harnesses are any different/better than traditional
mini-light strings. Do LED's strings go bad in sections just like
traditional strings or are they wired such that each individual socket is
a stand alone entity?
Replacing all my strings with LED's would be a huge up-front expense, but
if I knew that I could pull them out every year and they would work, it
would be worth it.


You may want to look into commercial-grade Christmas light strings. A
lot more expensive, but they have much beefier wiring, since they're
intended to last over many seasons. Around here you can find
name-brand (GE, Nova, etc) commercial light sets in the upper-end
landscape and lawn and garden stores. And yes, they're available in
LED. On the other hand, if you have a problem with critters chewing
the wiring, there's no point buying more expensive light sets, since
they'll just chew through those, too.

On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 3:36:22 PM UTC-5, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
On 12/5/2016 8:03 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been looking at buying some LED Christmas lights but I'm curious about
the wiring harnesses.

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc. However, I'm curious as to
whether the wiring harnesses are any different/better than traditional
mini-light strings. Do LED's strings go bad in sections just like
traditional strings or are they wired such that each individual socket is
a stand alone entity?
Replacing all my strings with LED's would be a huge up-front expense, but
if I knew that I could pull them out every year and they would work, it
would be worth it.


You may want to look into commercial-grade Christmas light strings. A
lot more expensive, but they have much beefier wiring, since they're
intended to last over many seasons. Around here you can find
name-brand (GE, Nova, etc) commercial light sets in the upper-end
landscape and lawn and garden stores. And yes, they're available in
LED. On the other hand, if you have a problem with critters chewing
the wiring, there's no point buying more expensive light sets, since
they'll just chew through those, too.

Thanks for the suggestion on commercial quality lights. It is something
I've considered but never followed through on. I always wait too long to
check the lights and then I'm running out on that day to pick up a few new
strings or repairing old ones so I can get them on the house.

So far, critters aren't the issue, at least not as far as the lights are
concerned. We do have to bring the cat food in from the garage every night
lest the raccoons eat most of it - after washing their paws in the water
bowl. I can usually tell when they've come snooping because they'll wash
their paws even if there is no food available.

I've got some nice videos of them in action. My cat is pretty tough but
she's smart enough to skedaddle as soon as the raccoons clear the cat door.

In article , says...

DerbyDad03 posted for all of us...


Replacing all my strings with LED's would be a huge up-front expense, but
if I knew that I could pull them out every year and they would work, it
would be worth it.

Sine they are diodes they are parallel wired, no sectional problems causes
by the LED.

Because thay are diodes and need a constant current, they are in series.
There may be several long strings of lights on the same plug in
parallel. If one does go out and fails open, a long string of them
will go out.

On 12/5/16 7:03 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been looking at buying some LED Christmas lights but I'm curious about
the wiring harnesses.

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc.

snip

Am I the only one who prefers the warmer and less brighter incandescent
bulbs, at least for indoor use?

We picked up a set of the LED lights this year, Sylvania brand,
"Stay-lit", described as being "warm white", but they are anything but
warm white, especially compared to our existing incandescent strings.

Jon

On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 15:22:23 -0500, Tekkie® wrote:

DerbyDad03 posted for all of us...



I've been looking at buying some LED Christmas lights but I'm curious about
the wiring harnesses.

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc. However, I'm curious as to
whether the wiring harnesses are any different/better than traditional
mini-light strings. Do LED's strings go bad in sections just like
traditional strings or are they wired such that each individual socket is
a stand alone entity?

I have a large number of mini-light Christmas strings. Straight, icicles and
swags. Every January I put away full working sets and every December I plug
the strings in to find bad sections scattered throughout. I try all the
standard bulb tricks and sometimes I can get the sections working, but
sometimes I can't.

I'm not talking about entire strings being bad, I mean that one or more 4'
section in a 21' string will be out. Then I have to buy new strings or
combine strings by cutting out bad sections and soldering in good ones. It's
a constant PITA.

Replacing all my strings with LED's would be a huge up-front expense, but
if I knew that I could pull them out every year and they would work, it
would be worth it.

Sine they are diodes they are parallel wired, no sectional problems causes
by the LED.
It depends what quality of LED string you buy. There is the dirt
cheap crap that is as lousy as any of the cheap incandescent serial
strings, and there is GOOD stuff. Bronners in Frankenmuth carry a line
of LEDS with "one piece" harnesses. The "sockets" and the wires are
molded together, unlike the cheap ones that are just stuck together. I
cannot remember the name of the Chinese company that makes them for
them - There are a couiple other companies selling what looks like
the exact light strings. The big thing is they are SEALED -you can
drop them in a barrel of water and no connections will get wet. I went
to look but the last empty box went out to recycling this morning - -
-

On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 15:22:11 -0700, Jon Danniken
wrote:

On 12/5/16 7:03 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been looking at buying some LED Christmas lights but I'm curious about
the wiring harnesses.

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc.

snip

Am I the only one who prefers the warmer and less brighter incandescent
bulbs, at least for indoor use?

We picked up a set of the LED lights this year, Sylvania brand,
"Stay-lit", described as being "warm white", but they are anything but
warm white, especially compared to our existing incandescent strings.

Jon

The Sylvania Stay-lit lights have a nice 5 year guarantee.

We have a large flagstone year round covered patio, a bar, kitchen, TV
area etc and we used quite a few strings of those LED lights around
the perimeter of the peaked roof cover and wrapped around all of the
perimeter vertical support posts. It's been a couple of years and so
far there are no defective LEDs and it is lit every night from dusk
until about midnight.

On Mon, 5 Dec 2016 15:22:11 -0700, Jon Danniken
wrote:

On 12/5/16 7:03 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been looking at buying some LED Christmas lights but I'm curious about
the wiring harnesses.

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc.

snip

Am I the only one who prefers the warmer and less brighter incandescent
bulbs, at least for indoor use?

We picked up a set of the LED lights this year, Sylvania brand,
"Stay-lit", described as being "warm white", but they are anything but
warm white, especially compared to our existing incandescent strings.

Jon
The "warm white" LED strings I put up this year almost perfectly
match the incandescents in colour. They have a nice "warm" glow to
them.

snip

Am I the only one who prefers the warmer and less brighter incandescent
bulbs, at least for indoor use?
We picked up a set of the LED lights this year, Sylvania brand,
"Stay-lit", described as being "warm white", but they are anything but
warm white, especially compared to our existing incandescent strings.
Jon


We have one neighbour with a few strings on a birch tree -
they almost hurt your eyes when walking past their house !
... a piercing blue-white light.
Noone would ever want them inside the house.

I cursed my old style lights for far too many years before
finally buying some LED strings - no fuss - all are working
perfectly after about 6 years or so.
John T.

On 12/5/2016 9:03 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been looking at buying some LED Christmas lights but I'm curious about
the wiring harnesses.

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc. However, I'm curious as to
whether the wiring harnesses are any different/better than traditional
mini-light strings. Do LED's strings go bad in sections just like
traditional strings or are they wired such that each individual socket is
a stand alone entity?

I have a large number of mini-light Christmas strings. Straight, icicles and
swags. Every January I put away full working sets and every December I plug
the strings in to find bad sections scattered throughout. I try all the
standard bulb tricks and sometimes I can get the sections working, but
sometimes I can't.

I'm not talking about entire strings being bad, I mean that one or more 4'
section in a 21' string will be out. Then I have to buy new strings or
combine strings by cutting out bad sections and soldering in good ones. It's
a constant PITA.

Replacing all my strings with LED's would be a huge up-front expense, but
if I knew that I could pull them out every year and they would work, it
would be worth it.

I've never had to cobble in new sections of lights because string are
bad. Yes, I've had an individual bad socket and usually can fix it.
Mostly it's bad lamps. Each lamp had a shunt in it to maintain the
circuit when the filament burns out. The shunt is supposed to burn
through and keep the circuit going. However, many times the 120VAC or
177 volts peak won't burn through the shunt and the string won't light.
Using one of the zapper guns (Lightkeeper) will usually "fix" the bad
shunts by putting a higher voltage pulse through the string, causing the
shunt on a bad bulb to burn through. However, multiple bad lamps and
corroded sockets usually can't be fixed this way. I built a test box
that allows me to probe down the string and find the bad bulb. This
works great especially where you can lay out the entire string. There
are resistors in the test box that prevent burning out the lamps if only
a small section lights while probing.

Many years ago I bought 3 skinny trees which were factory prelit. These
light strings don't have shunts ... thanks Menards! So the zap gun will
not work. So, it's probe from one lamp to the other. Because the wires
are wound so tightly around the branches, it's really tough to go down
the string, but with some patience they are still lighting. Seems no
one carries these lamps, however, I did find an Ace store in Indiana
where they had some. I had them ship me their entire stock, about 10 or
15 cards of 5 lamps and until they are used up, I'm good.

I repair donated recycled lights as a hobby. Even got written up about it in the local area newspaper.

Biggest problem with the LED light strings that I pick up is the actual wire coming out of the LED rusts and doesn't make good contact with the socket.. Sometimes, when you pull out the LED and the plastic socket, the wire breaks off inside the plastic socket. Sometimes the broken wire lead falls out, but sometimes the rust holds it in the socket and everything looks ok. Patience and a good game on the tv works out best for me.

I also have a variable voltage source, a variac, that I set at half voltage or lower, and then use a wire jumper to bypass half the string of bulbs. If the sting lights up, the bad bulb or connection is in the bypassed half.. If the string stays out, the bad bulb is in the unbypassed lights. I reverse the bypass and see if the string lights. If it does light, then I have verified the general half of the string where the problem is. I then bypass half of the defective half to more closely locate the problem. I keep on doping this by halves until I get to the bad actor. This works fine as long as there is only one or two bad actors. If a lot of bad bulbs , good luck!!!

On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 3:36:22 PM UTC-5, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
landscape and lawn and garden stores. And yes, they're available in
LED. On the other hand, if you have a problem with critters chewing
the wiring, there's no point buying more expensive light sets, since
they'll just chew through those, too.


I leave mine on the hedge year round.

But they stopped working this year.

Er, right after I'd trimmed the hedge. Not sure that had anything to do with it though.

On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 at 11:59:30 AM UTC-5, TimR wrote:
On Monday, December 5, 2016 at 3:36:22 PM UTC-5, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
landscape and lawn and garden stores. And yes, they're available in
LED. On the other hand, if you have a problem with critters chewing
the wiring, there's no point buying more expensive light sets, since
they'll just chew through those, too.


I leave mine on the hedge year round.

But they stopped working this year.

Er, right after I'd trimmed the hedge. Not sure that had anything to do with it though.

You should have left them on so you could see where you were trimming.

Last night I wrapped the utility pole in front of my house with net lights.

A 6' x 4' net wraps neatly around the pole and hooks onto a single vertical
line of deck screws. With a 10' step ladder, I can wrap 2 sets, so the
pole is lit up to 12' high.

The power/cable/phone companies didn't bother me last year (first year I
did it) so we'll see if I hear from anyone this year.

A couple of decades ago they left my basketball hoop on the pole for 3 years.
Then one day I came home from work to find it in my driveway along with a
letter in my mail box telling me that it wasn't allowed.

On 12/05/2016 01:47 PM, wrote:

[snip]

I have played with LED rope light and it is in sections and I imagine
LED strings are too. The up side is you don't have any lamp sockets
and that is usually where those cheap peanut light strings fail


The have to be. A LED maintains a voltage of about 2 or 3 volts.
Dropping 120V to this wastes too much power. They use about 25 to 35
LEDs in series.

I lose 1 or 2 (rope lights) every year. Usually it's a series (about 1.5
feet) failure.

BTW, I've already had one series failure this year (after putting them
in the yard). I made a loop of the bad part and at night you can't tell
anything's wrong.

--
19 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"People used to think that to mix religion with business spoiled the
religion, now they think it spoils the business." [Lemuel K. Washburn,
_Is The Bible Worth Reading And Other Essays_, 1911]

On 12/05/2016 02:22 PM, Tekkie® wrote:

[snip]

Sine they are diodes they are parallel wired, no sectional problems causes
by the LED.


They are in series of about 30. Longer strings have multiple series in
parallel.

A diode maintains a low voltage across itself (with forward polarity,
which an LED needs to light) or at most a few volts. The circuit needs
some means of limiting current to prevent the LEDs from destroying
themselves. This is usually a resistor. It wastes a lot more current
dropping 120V to 3V (single LED) than dropping it to 90V (LED series).

You CAN put LEDs in parallel (if they have the same forward voltage),
but that doesn't solve the wasted power problem.

BTW, I do have a couple of light sets that use LEDs in parallel. This is
a solar-powered set that uses 20 LEDs and a single LiFePO battery (3.2V)
not 120V.

--
19 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"People used to think that to mix religion with business spoiled the
religion, now they think it spoils the business." [Lemuel K. Washburn,
_Is The Bible Worth Reading And Other Essays_, 1911]

On 12/05/2016 03:08 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]

So far, critters aren't the issue, at least not as far as the lights are
concerned. We do have to bring the cat food in from the garage every night
lest the raccoons eat most of it - after washing their paws in the water
bowl. I can usually tell when they've come snooping because they'll wash
their paws even if there is no food available.

I've got some nice videos of them in action. My cat is pretty tough but
she's smart enough to skedaddle as soon as the raccoons clear the cat door.


I have that too. Raccoons come at night, so I put out cat food in the
morning so the cats have a better chance. Recently, I don't see any
raccoons but plenty of possums. At least they don't mess up the water as
much.

AFAIK, I haven't had any critter-related problems with the Christmas
lights. I have heard of someone who had a problem with fire ants piling
dirt around the lights, tripping a GFCI.

--
19 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"People used to think that to mix religion with business spoiled the
religion, now they think it spoils the business." [Lemuel K. Washburn,
_Is The Bible Worth Reading And Other Essays_, 1911]

On 12/05/2016 03:19 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

[snip]

Because thay are diodes and need a constant current, they are in series.
There may be several long strings of lights on the same plug in
parallel. If one does go out and fails open, a long string of them
will go out.

LED current is commonly 30mA, although there are bright LEDs that need more.

It isn't so much constant current as constant VOLTAGE. A diode is a
voltage regulator. It will conduct enough current to bring its supply
down to its threshold voltage (usually no more than about 3V). With a
directly connected 120V supply, it tries to conduct infinite current (to
bring 120V down to 3V) and destroy itself. It needs a resistor so that
when it's conducting 30mA, the supply is brought down to 3V (117V
across the resistor).

A string of 30 of those LEDs will require 90V to light. The resistor has
to waste 9mW (30V * 30mA). Putting the LEDs in parallel would require
wasting 105.3W (117V * 30mA * 30 LEDs). A big difference.

Most of the LED light strings I have are one of:

25 lights - single series or 25
50 lights - 2 series of 25
60 lights - 2 series of 30
70 lights - 2 series of 35
100 lights - 4 series of 25

--
19 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"People used to think that to mix religion with business spoiled the
religion, now they think it spoils the business." [Lemuel K. Washburn,
_Is The Bible Worth Reading And Other Essays_, 1911]

On 12/05/2016 04:22 PM, Jon Danniken wrote:

[snip]

We picked up a set of the LED lights this year, Sylvania brand,
"Stay-lit", described as being "warm white", but they are anything but
warm white, especially compared to our existing incandescent strings.

Jon

I find that to be true. CFLs and LEDs do a poor job of imitating the
dirty yellow called warm white. They are NOT the same color as
incandescents. Get green and red. They're Christmas colors, and the
colors are much better than with incandescents. Blue and real white
(called cool write) are good too.

--
19 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00
AM for 1 day).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"People used to think that to mix religion with business spoiled the
religion, now they think it spoils the business." [Lemuel K. Washburn,
_Is The Bible Worth Reading And Other Essays_, 1911]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 08:30:27 -0500, Art Todesco
wrote:

On 12/5/2016 9:03 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I've been looking at buying some LED Christmas lights but I'm curious about
the wiring harnesses.

I know the bulbs are brighter, last longer, etc. However, I'm curious as to
whether the wiring harnesses are any different/better than traditional
mini-light strings. Do LED's strings go bad in sections just like
traditional strings or are they wired such that each individual socket is
a stand alone entity?
They are wired similar to the old series string mini-lights - but when
a LED fails id very seldom fails "open" - so the lights stay on unless
you have a bad connection. My experience with mini-light strings (and
cheap LED stings) is it is USUALLY a wire connection problem rather
than a light problem that takes out a section.

I have a large number of mini-light Christmas strings. Straight, icicles and
swags. Every January I put away full working sets and every December I plug
the strings in to find bad sections scattered throughout. I try all the
standard bulb tricks and sometimes I can get the sections working, but
sometimes I can't.

I'm not talking about entire strings being bad, I mean that one or more 4'
section in a 21' string will be out. Then I have to buy new strings or
combine strings by cutting out bad sections and soldering in good ones. It's
a constant PITA.

Replacing all my strings with LED's would be a huge up-front expense, but
if I knew that I could pull them out every year and they would work, it
would be worth it.

I've never had to cobble in new sections of lights because string are
bad. Yes, I've had an individual bad socket and usually can fix it.
Mostly it's bad lamps. Each lamp had a shunt in it to maintain the
circuit when the filament burns out. The shunt is supposed to burn
through and keep the circuit going. However, many times the 120VAC or
177 volts peak won't burn through the shunt and the string won't light.
Using one of the zapper guns (Lightkeeper) will usually "fix" the bad
shunts by putting a higher voltage pulse through the string, causing the
shunt on a bad bulb to burn through. However, multiple bad lamps and
corroded sockets usually can't be fixed this way. I built a test box
that allows me to probe down the string and find the bad bulb. This
works great especially where you can lay out the entire string. There
are resistors in the test box that prevent burning out the lamps if only
a small section lights while probing.

Many years ago I bought 3 skinny trees which were factory prelit. These
light strings don't have shunts ... thanks Menards! So the zap gun will
not work. So, it's probe from one lamp to the other. Because the wires
are wound so tightly around the branches, it's really tough to go down
the string, but with some patience they are still lighting. Seems no
one carries these lamps, however, I did find an Ace store in Indiana
where they had some. I had them ship me their entire stock, about 10 or
15 cards of 5 lamps and until they are used up, I'm good.