This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that someone
may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted to
ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next
door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool.
You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?


I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.

If the agreement was not recorded then you have no obligation under
it. Fences normally have to be set back from property lines. If he
is on your line then the survey should have shown it and the lawyer
doing the closing and/or title company should have brought it to your
attention. Look at the survey and see what it says. If it says the
fence is on the line call up the lawyer and ask him what should be
done about it. Since he failed to bring it to your attention he may
have committed mal-practice and should be willing to advise you
without charge. You may live in a state where lawyers no longer do
closings in which case the title company may have screwed up. Check
the policy and see if they have an exception for the fence if it is on
your line.



wrote in message
...

This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that someone
may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted to
ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next
door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool.
You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line
section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new
length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?


I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as
to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the
original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.

Comments inserted below:


wrote in message
...

This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that someone
may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted to
ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next
door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool.
You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

Required? Absolutely not.

2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?

2 things... 1) Does he need a building permit in the first place?
2) He needs to keep it on his property unless he makes a
different agreement with you.



I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.

If the fence was there when you purchased the home, you don't have much room
to complain about the existing fence. You do have the right to request that
the neighbor move the fence line to his property if he reconstructs part of
the fence.

KB

wrote in message

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

N O ! ! !



2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?

Is it replacing the old section in the same place? If so, probably not.
There may have been an agreement with the original owner of your house
letting it be right on the line.


I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.

Agreement as to placement may be binding, but unless it was disclosed prior
to sale to you, there is no obligation to maintain the fence.
Ed

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:27:59 GMT, "Art Begun"
wrote:

If the agreement was not recorded then you have no obligation under
it. Fences normally have to be set back from property lines. If he
is on your line then the survey should have shown it and the lawyer
doing the closing and/or title company should have brought it to your
attention. Look at the survey and see what it says. If it says the
fence is on the line call up the lawyer and ask him what should be
done about it. Since he failed to bring it to your attention he may
have committed mal-practice and should be willing to advise you
without charge. You may live in a state where lawyers no longer do
closings in which case the title company may have screwed up. Check
the policy and see if they have an exception for the fence if it is on
your line.

The only reference to a fence is from a survey drawing from the
title company. It shows a wooden fence drawn on the property
line. This fence is no longer there. It was replaced a couple of
years ago. The only notification I got about the new fence was a
notification that I should pay for half. I refused on the reasoning
that the fence is only there because of his pool.

In the future, if the fence requires repair, and my neighbor asks for
help with the cost, what should my response be?

1 no 2 just a permit, but be sure it isnt on your side of the line,
on the line is ok

I'm sure you will get a lot of answers here and some of them may even
becorrect, but the only way you will know for sure is to call your
local zoning board or whatever local agency has jurisdiction in the
community where you live.


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

wrote in message
news
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:27:59 GMT, "Art Begun"
wrote:

If the agreement was not recorded then you have no obligation under
it. Fences normally have to be set back from property lines. If he
is on your line then the survey should have shown it and the lawyer
doing the closing and/or title company should have brought it to your
attention. Look at the survey and see what it says. If it says the
fence is on the line call up the lawyer and ask him what should be
done about it. Since he failed to bring it to your attention he may
have committed mal-practice and should be willing to advise you
without charge. You may live in a state where lawyers no longer do
closings in which case the title company may have screwed up. Check
the policy and see if they have an exception for the fence if it is on
your line.

The only reference to a fence is from a survey drawing from the
title company. It shows a wooden fence drawn on the property
line. This fence is no longer there. It was replaced a couple of
years ago. The only notification I got about the new fence was a
notification that I should pay for half. I refused on the reasoning
that the fence is only there because of his pool.

In the future, if the fence requires repair, and my neighbor asks for
help with the cost, what should my response be?

This is Turtle.

Hey Tnom, i have my back fence at my house that is getting bad and i need
you to chip in on the cost of repairing it. I know we probley live in
different states but your close enough to ask you to chip in on it. i will
accept cash or check. Hope to see a check in the mail soon. Oh, i'll keep
you posted on the replacement after i receive your check.

Oh yea, awwwwww the replacement will cost about $1,200.00 and you only need
to pay $600.00 of the replacementment cost.

Thank you for your help in advance.

TURTLE

wrote in message
The only reference to a fence is from a survey drawing from the
title company. It shows a wooden fence drawn on the property
line. This fence is no longer there. It was replaced a couple of
years ago. The only notification I got about the new fence was a
notification that I should pay for half. I refused on the reasoning
that the fence is only there because of his pool.

In the future, if the fence requires repair, and my neighbor asks for
help with the cost, what should my response be?

Notification from your neighbor to pay half?

Pool owners have a responsibility to have a fence by code. Since its
obvious this is why the fence is placed, I would check with your zoning to
see if a fence can be _on_ the line. In my area, you can go upto, but not
on the line.

I would tell the lunkhead to move the fence if you're not allowed to be on
the line. Neighbor has a set of 16lb balls to ask you to help with the
repairs.

Tell s/he if they want to own a pool, they have to accept the
responsibilities that go with it.

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 11:58:06 -0500, wrote:


This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that someone
may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted to
ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next
door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool.
You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

Not normally. Assuming you didn't sign an agreement with your
neighbor and no binding agreement transferred with the title to the
property, the only other thing to check would be any homeowner's
association covenants or local ordinances.

2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?

Maybe, maybe not. That's up to local codes. Locally, a fence may be
on the property line in certain circumstances, and there is no need
for an agreement between the neighbors. In my mother's jurisdiction,
unless the fence is a shared fence and there is an agreement between
the neighbors, the fence must be at least one foot inside the proerty
line. Which makes for quite a few two foot lanes of unmowed grass
between neighbors.

I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.

The only legal jurisdiction in your case likely isn't answering
questions on this newsgroup. If it were me, I'd talk with the
neighbor about it long before I started looking for legal advice on
the internet...

Jeff

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 12:44:32 -0500, wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:27:59 GMT, "Art Begun"
wrote:

If the agreement was not recorded then you have no obligation under
it. Fences normally have to be set back from property lines. If he
is on your line then the survey should have shown it and the lawyer
doing the closing and/or title company should have brought it to your
attention. Look at the survey and see what it says. If it says the
fence is on the line call up the lawyer and ask him what should be
done about it. Since he failed to bring it to your attention he may
have committed mal-practice and should be willing to advise you
without charge. You may live in a state where lawyers no longer do
closings in which case the title company may have screwed up. Check
the policy and see if they have an exception for the fence if it is on
your line.

The only reference to a fence is from a survey drawing from the
title company. It shows a wooden fence drawn on the property
line. This fence is no longer there. It was replaced a couple of
years ago. The only notification I got about the new fence was a
notification that I should pay for half. I refused on the reasoning
that the fence is only there because of his pool.

In the future, if the fence requires repair, and my neighbor asks for
help with the cost, what should my response be?

Fence expenses on lot lines between farms/ranches were traditially shared
50/50, since both benefit by containing their own animals. But since this
fence appears to be for your neighbor's benefit only (likely required for
the pool), they should put it on their own property per applicable codes,
and own it completely. Or do you benefit by not seeing your neighbor's
family?

Even after you check the local legalities, you may want to consider
whether you want to be technically correct and have a hostile neighbor, or
maintain goodwill.

--
David Efflandt - All spam ignored http://www.de-srv.com/

wrote:

This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that someone
may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted to
ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next
door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool.
You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?

I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.
if you dont want a fence dont do anything.. if he wants to put up a new
fence theh he can do it.... just dont hang anything on "HIS" fence.....
and make sure its on his side of the property line.....

wrote:

This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that someone
may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted to
ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next
door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool.
You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?

I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.
tell the neighbor that if it was up to you that you would just tear down
the fence... let him/her know that you dont care for fences and try to
talk them into not having a fence.. he/she will then say: "Oh i got a
pool and need a fence." then you tell them, "Well, its OK with me, but
i cant afford one now, sorry."""

"jim" wrote in message ...
wrote:

This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that someone
may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted to
ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next
door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool.
You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line
section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new
length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?

I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as
to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the
original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.
tell the neighbor that if it was up to you that you would just tear
down
the fence... let him/her know that you dont care for fences and try to
talk them into not having a fence.. he/she will then say: "Oh i got a
pool and need a fence." then you tell them, "Well, its OK with me,
but
i cant afford one now, sorry."""


In Floriduh the number one killer of children is pool drownings.
So fences are required to get a pool. On top of that people are assholes
so privacy is a great deterrent from christian fundumentalcysts.
IT doesn't stop the secret service though.

voodoo disease 666

wrote in message
...

This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that someone
may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted to
ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next
door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool.
You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?


I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.

It all depends on the neighbor, how long you intend to live their, and your
personality.

If your neighbor is a reasonable sort, and the kind of person you want to
live next door to, a capitulation on the fence might be appropriate. I
wouldn't let him bully you into paying half of the fence since you will get
NO use out of it, but a token payment would be a good thing.

If you want to live there a long time, and start off on the right foot with
the person you will probably see most, it would be wise to start off
amicably.

If you are the type of person who believes that they are right, and doesn't
care what the other person thinks, do whatever you want.

HTH

Steve

wrote:

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:27:59 GMT, "Art Begun"
wrote:

If the agreement was not recorded then you have no obligation under
it. Fences normally have to be set back from property lines. If he
is on your line then the survey should have shown it and the lawyer
doing the closing and/or title company should have brought it to your
attention. Look at the survey and see what it says. If it says the
fence is on the line call up the lawyer and ask him what should be
done about it. Since he failed to bring it to your attention he may
have committed mal-practice and should be willing to advise you
without charge. You may live in a state where lawyers no longer do
closings in which case the title company may have screwed up. Check
the policy and see if they have an exception for the fence if it is on
your line.

The only reference to a fence is from a survey drawing from the
title company. It shows a wooden fence drawn on the property
line. This fence is no longer there. It was replaced a couple of
years ago. The only notification I got about the new fence was a
notification that I should pay for half. I refused on the reasoning
that the fence is only there because of his pool.

In the future, if the fence requires repair, and my neighbor asks for
help with the cost, what should my response be?

In the first place it was just plain rude to tell you owed
half without having discussed it with you first and to find
out what your desires were. States and localities are
wildly different in real estate matters. But it is likely
that none of it is your responsibility and you should refuse
help with the cost of both construction and maintenance if
the fence provides no benefits to you.

In most states there is something called Adverse Possession. If
someone encroaches your property openly and maintains it, in a certain
number of years he owns it. If you give him permission then he can
never own it because his action is not adverse to his rights. I don't
known how long adverse possession takes in your state but the clock
may be ticking. It usually is a long time like 10 to 25 years. In
any case you risk losing a few feet of property if he is on your line
without permission. Normally he has to have a set back. Whether not
having a set pack is the same as being on your property and
maintaining it for the purposes of adverse possession, I do not know
and you should find out.




wrote in message
news
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 17:27:59 GMT, "Art Begun"
wrote:

If the agreement was not recorded then you have no obligation under
it. Fences normally have to be set back from property lines. If
he
is on your line then the survey should have shown it and the lawyer
doing the closing and/or title company should have brought it to
your
attention. Look at the survey and see what it says. If it says
the
fence is on the line call up the lawyer and ask him what should be
done about it. Since he failed to bring it to your attention he
may
have committed mal-practice and should be willing to advise you
without charge. You may live in a state where lawyers no longer do
closings in which case the title company may have screwed up.
Check
the policy and see if they have an exception for the fence if it is
on
your line.

The only reference to a fence is from a survey drawing from the
title company. It shows a wooden fence drawn on the property
line. This fence is no longer there. It was replaced a couple of
years ago. The only notification I got about the new fence was a
notification that I should pay for half. I refused on the reasoning
that the fence is only there because of his pool.

In the future, if the fence requires repair, and my neighbor asks
for
help with the cost, what should my response be?

wrote in message
...

If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have to
have your approval before he puts it on the property line, otherwise he must
put it just inside the property line?

In my neck of the woods, unless he has you permission he must place it 6
inches inside the line. With your permission he can put it on the line.
Absolutely no way would I pay (not one cent) any part of fencing his
property. What good is it going to do you?RM~
..

wrote:
This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that someone
may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted to
ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next
door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool.
You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

Under most circumstances, yes.*


2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?

If you say nothing when he erected the fence, you consented to its
placement. Where he puts the fence does not impact your obligations. Either
way, you're in for half.*



I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.

* Here's the drill. You are responsible for your portion of the cost under
the principle of unjust enrichment. At the first moment you detect such a
project underway, you must announce your opposition. Failing to say
anything, under the principle of "assent by silence," you implicitly conset
to the construction and its attendant costs.

Interestingly, much of contract law can be covered using "the fence" concept
as examples (the rest can be covered by the concepts of "the bull" and "the
pit").

When studying "the fence," you can get off into interesting areas such as
"no notice" (the fence was erected while you slept), "total cost" (you
consented - by silence - to the idea of a fence, but not one made of
polished marble with gold gryphens), and so on.

In article SbpGb.39013$BQ5.7887@fed1read03,
"SteveB" wrote:

wrote in message
...

snip

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?


I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.

It all depends on the neighbor, how long you intend to live their, and your
personality.

snip

Our neighbors wanted to put up a fence around their yard & also replace
a bit of fence that actually was ours. Some of the fence was right on
the property line. Even though they were replacing a fence, they had to
get a special variance from the city because there wasn't enough room
for a proper inset. We also had to write a letter of support for this
project. Permits are required for fences and neighbors have to agree to
any variance.

We had wanted to replace the beaten down little picket fence with a
privacy fence but hadn't gotten around to doing it. When the neighbors
asked us to pay half of the cost for that portion, I said I'd have to
talk with DH about it. After I hung up the phone & told him about it, we
did a dance of joy that we were only going to have to pay half. I waited
until the next day to call them back and agree to the payment & make
some requests (we have dogs & dogs & no fence are a bad combination).

I don't know how much room there is between the property line & the
fence, but having the fence properly inset would benefit you. I would
suggest that since the neighbor's pool is kind of a nuisance, the newer
fence would benefit you. Since you have no use for fences, I can
understand why you don't want to pay for a part of your neighbor's
fence, but I would ask what your neighbor thinks is a fair amount to
chip in & negotiate from there.

I agree with SteveB about it all depending on the neighbor. Our
neighbors are very nice people (she's a master gardener) and we would do
just about anything to keep them happy because we are not the best
neighbors in the world. As it turned out, the fence cost more than what
they quoted us and they told us they'd pick up the extra cost. We added
to the check.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

Under most circumstances, yes.*


2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?

If you say nothing when he erected the fence, you consented to its
placement. Where he puts the fence does not impact your obligations. Either
way, you're in for half.*

I have no idea of where the fence was placed. I did not survey it and
he did not relay this info to me.

I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.

* Here's the drill. You are responsible for your portion of the cost under
the principle of unjust enrichment.

How have I been enriched?

At the first moment you detect such a
project underway, you must announce your opposition. Failing to say
anything, under the principle of "assent by silence," you implicitly conset
to the construction and its attendant costs.

I can't oppose a fence that he uses to enclose his pool. Nor should
I have to pay for a survey to assure he is not encroaching on my
property.

Interestingly, much of contract law can be covered using "the fence" concept
as examples (the rest can be covered by the concepts of "the bull" and "the
pit").

When studying "the fence," you can get off into interesting areas such as
"no notice" (the fence was erected while you slept), "total cost" (you
consented - by silence - to the idea of a fence, but not one made of
polished marble with gold gryphens), and so on.

wrote in message
...

This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that someone
may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted to
ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next
door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool.
You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?


I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.

My goodness, the lawyers come running don't they. While all the legal mumbo
jumbo is fine, and I do suggest you go to your town hall and find out what
is and isn't in the books legally (and it will probably vary from what you
have read so far, backset, plot plan, permits, etc, etc.), you have to weigh
in on what others have mentioned about being able to live next door to your
neighbor.
Before being given a notice about sharing the cost, was there any discussion
between you about the replacement of the fence? Your neighbor might just be
going according to what was done with the previous owner, which depending on
you may or may not be a correct assumption.
To cut this short, let's get back to the important idea.....livability.
Sit down without any agenda's and discuss as neighbors what your feelings
are. Costs, maintenance, property lines........whatever, and hopefully you
will get to where you stand, look your neighbor in the eye and shake hands
as friends. And maybe put it in writing (for you legal eagles)

If your neighbor is a jerk THEN cover yourself legally.
Remember.............You have to live there.

Dave

"David Babcock" wrote in message

To cut this short, let's get back to the important idea.....livability.
Sit down without any agenda's and discuss as neighbors what your feelings
are. Costs, maintenance, property lines........whatever, and hopefully you
will get to where you stand, look your neighbor in the eye and shake hands
as friends. And maybe put it in writing (for you legal eagles)

Yes, livability is important. Get him to pay for painting the portions of
your house that are visible from his property. After all, he does not want
to look at a shabby house that brings property values down. I'm sure he
will want to chip in.

Where do you park your car? Is yours as nice as his? If not, get him to
make the payments on a new one.
Ed

wrote in message
...

This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that someone
may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted to
ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next
door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool.
You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?

Property line fences bring a special problem.
How does the owner of the fence maintain the fence on your side without
trespassing on your property? This is why many jurisdictions require the
fence set in far enough from the property line to avoid that problem.
If this is a wood fence, who will paint it? If you do, can you pick your own
color?

Since the fence in question is "falling part" I don't see your neighbor as
being high in the maintenace area. Has the fence become an eyesore.

My take would be, somewhat apologetically, "Gee, you need that fence bacause
of your pool. I don't get any benefit from either your pool or your fence
(which by the way you have not been diligent in maintaining). I am sorry but
I cannot see a reason for spending my money on something that is not to my
benefit."

And finally, I think he is trying to pull a fast one on you. Remember those
words of P.T. Barnum abou suckers being born every minute.

Charlie






I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.

You are likely correct. I told him to check.


wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 03:09:58 GMT, "Art Begun"
wrote:

In most states there is something called Adverse Possession. If
someone encroaches your property openly and maintains it, in a
certain
number of years he owns it. If you give him permission then he can
never own it because his action is not adverse to his rights. I
don't
known how long adverse possession takes in your state but the clock
may be ticking. It usually is a long time like 10 to 25 years. In
any case you risk losing a few feet of property if he is on your
line
without permission. Normally he has to have a set back. Whether
not
having a set pack is the same as being on your property and
maintaining it for the purposes of adverse possession, I do not
know
and you should find out.



Further on this subject - in order to claim adverse possession the
person looking to obtain the property has to actively possess and
use
the property. Here the placement of a fence in and of itself is not
sufficient to allow a claim of adverse possession and in fact fences
here are considered to be "portable" and may encroach on adjoining
property or be erected in areas where permanent construction is not
permitted, i.e. buffers and easements.

You are likely correct. I told him to check.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 03:09:58 GMT, "Art Begun"
wrote:

In
any case you risk losing a few feet of property if he is on your
line
without permission. Normally he has to have a set back. Whether
not
having a set pack is the same as being on your property and
maintaining it for the purposes of adverse possession, I do not
know
and you should find out.


First - adverse possession seldom is effectively enforced,
especially
with regard to residential real estate that is occupied.

Second - If there is any provision for the application of adverse
possession where the property is located the survey and transfer of
title at the time of purchase negated it as far as the current owner
is concerned and the clock would start to run from the time he took
title to the property.

Third - all of the above is completely moot since if the fence is on
the property line and none of the OP's property is being encroached
upon! Where do you get the idea that "a few feet" of the OP's
property s in jeopardy?

Unjust enrichment is the silliest thing I've ever heard. I'm sure
he's joking.



"JerryMouse" wrote in message
news
wrote:
This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that
someone
may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted
to
ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next
door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool.
You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line
section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new
length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

Under most circumstances, yes.*


2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he
have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?

If you say nothing when he erected the fence, you consented to its
placement. Where he puts the fence does not impact your obligations.
Either
way, you're in for half.*



I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue
as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the
original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.

* Here's the drill. You are responsible for your portion of the cost
under
the principle of unjust enrichment. At the first moment you detect
such a
project underway, you must announce your opposition. Failing to say
anything, under the principle of "assent by silence," you implicitly
conset
to the construction and its attendant costs.

Interestingly, much of contract law can be covered using "the fence"
concept
as examples (the rest can be covered by the concepts of "the bull"
and "the
pit").

When studying "the fence," you can get off into interesting areas
such as
"no notice" (the fence was erected while you slept), "total cost"
(you
consented - by silence - to the idea of a fence, but not one made of
polished marble with gold gryphens), and so on.

The neighbor has pretty much already proven himself a jerk by asking
for the money. The only exception that I can think of is that he let
his previous neighbor (previous home owner) have full use of the pool
and assumed that the new owner was told of the arrangement and was
happy with it.


"David Babcock" wrote in message
news:8%AGb.657946$Fm2.579355@attbi_s04...

wrote in message
...

This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that
someone
may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted
to
ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next
door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool.
You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line
section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new
length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he
have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?


I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue
as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the
original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.

My goodness, the lawyers come running don't they. While all the
legal mumbo
jumbo is fine, and I do suggest you go to your town hall and find
out what
is and isn't in the books legally (and it will probably vary from
what you
have read so far, backset, plot plan, permits, etc, etc.), you have
to weigh
in on what others have mentioned about being able to live next door
to your
neighbor.
Before being given a notice about sharing the cost, was there any
discussion
between you about the replacement of the fence? Your neighbor might
just be
going according to what was done with the previous owner, which
depending on
you may or may not be a correct assumption.
To cut this short, let's get back to the important
idea.....livability.
Sit down without any agenda's and discuss as neighbors what your
feelings
are. Costs, maintenance, property lines........whatever, and
hopefully you
will get to where you stand, look your neighbor in the eye and shake
hands
as friends. And maybe put it in writing (for you legal eagles)

If your neighbor is a jerk THEN cover yourself legally.
Remember.............You have to live there.

Dave

Has anyone ever thought of this ..............

In order for the man to build the pool and fill it up, the city/county had
to sign off that the fence was of legal construction, that it was located
properly, and complied with code. And since you weren't around, you have no
real obligation or liability regarding the previous homeowner, structures
built OFF of your property, or any agreements the previous owner entered
into, either implied or expressed.

Since the pool was built and filled with the supervision of the local
building department, the city/county has stated by their actions that the
fence met ALL laws. If the fence is on the property line, or one inch on
your property, it was an illegal structure that the city/county authorized
as safe and legal.

Since the future fence will be located on his property, I would either tell
him to pay for the thing himself, or offer to pay some small amount to keep
the peace. I would insist that the fence be located at least one inch
inside his property line so he can't come back at you later. Since he
"notified" you that you would "have" to pay half, he may be incorrectly
advised, not know the facts, or just be a garden variety putz.

If the fence IS on your property, even half of it, I would thank him for
removing the fence, let the city/county know that THIS time you will make
certain that the fence is legally located, that you DO NOT want it on your
property, and encourage them to do the same. I would still offer to pay a
SMALL amount just to keep the peace.

If your neighbor continues to be a putz, just make sure the fence is on his
property by notifying the inspector and city/county of your concerns that
the fence is PROPERLY AND LEGALLY situated, and let him pay for it all. It
is ALL of his responsibility to fence in an "attractive nuisance" and NONE
of yours. Is he going to want you to help pay for some pool furniture next?

This one requires the wisdom of Solomon. You have to live next to the guy,
but if he is unreasonable, you gotta stand firm. Otherwise, he will be
coming up with something new every time you turn around.

Steve

"JerryMouse" wrote in message
news
wrote:
This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that someone
may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted to
ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next
door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool.
You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

Under most circumstances, yes.*


2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?

If you say nothing when he erected the fence, you consented to its
placement. Where he puts the fence does not impact your obligations.
Either
way, you're in for half.*



I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.

* Here's the drill. You are responsible for your portion of the cost under
the principle of unjust enrichment. At the first moment you detect such a
project underway, you must announce your opposition. Failing to say
anything, under the principle of "assent by silence," you implicitly
conset
to the construction and its attendant costs.

Horse poop, an attorney you're not.

Exactly how has the OP been enriched? By a neglected fence? You're way off
base, I suggest you review exactly what enrichment consists of. The OP
clearly states the fence was there when they moved in, they have NO
obligation to help unless the pool was a _shared_ pool.

The property owner of the pool has an obligation legally to maintain the
fence through code enforcement.

You're not by chance the OP's neighbor by trying this lame brain tactic, are
you?

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 10:58:48 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:


Since the future fence will be located on his property, I would either
tell
him to pay for the thing himself, or offer to pay some small amount to
keep
the peace. I would insist that the fence be located at least one inch
inside his property line so he can't come back at you later. Since he
"notified" you that you would "have" to pay half, he may be incorrectly
advised, not know the facts, or just be a garden variety putz.


The fence guide lines in the HOA by laws for our association require
that fences either be on the property line or FIVE (5) feet inside of
it. (Double fences are not permitted - cases where two home owners
want different style fences along the same boundary line.)

Since he notified the OP that he would have to pay half, I would feel
the only obligation the OP has is to notify him that he was NOT paying
anything!

DOH!

Sorry I missed the fact that this is a HOA situation. In that case,
whatever the HO Nazis decree is what is to be done.

Common sense tells me that the one homeowner has no oblgation to pay for his
neighbor's pool fence.

Steve

wrote in message
...

This may not be the right group but I'll take a chance that someone
may shed some light on these questions that I have always wanted to
ask.

Scenario: You move into an existing sub were one of your next
door neighbors has a property line fence because he has a pool.
You have no other fencing other than the shared fence of above.

1. If this neighbor decided to remove the shared property line section
of fence that is falling apart, and replace it with a new length,
are you required to chip in with the cost?

2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?


I ask these questions because I have no use for fences. The shared
fence is only there because of my neighbors pool. I have no clue as to
if the previous owner of my house had any agreement with the original
pool owner about the initial installation of the fence.


Our next-door neighbor wanted to replace his fence on our side of his
property. We received a notification by mail from an attorney that this was
his plan. He also stated that the fence would be placed 6 inches inside his
property line (on his side), and the main reason we were being notified was
that they may need to step on our property to complete the
removal/replacement of the fence. Not sure if that was done because of laws
saying he had to notify us, or if he was just being a good neighbor and
covering all of his bases. But we appreciated it - we had chickens and a
dog at the time, so needed to make sure we could keep them confined.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"David Babcock" wrote in message

To cut this short, let's get back to the important
idea.....livability.
Sit down without any agenda's and discuss as neighbors what your
feelings
are. Costs, maintenance, property lines........whatever, and hopefully
you
will get to where you stand, look your neighbor in the eye and shake
hands
as friends. And maybe put it in writing (for you legal eagles)

Yes, livability is important. Get him to pay for painting the portions of
your house that are visible from his property. After all, he does not
want
to look at a shabby house that brings property values down. I'm sure he
will want to chip in.

Where do you park your car? Is yours as nice as his? If not, get him to
make the payments on a new one.
Ed


I wasn't advocating he pay for his neighbors fence, just the opposite. What
I was saying is do it civilly, like the neighbor should have done with him.
All the points about needing the fence to have the pool, gaining nothing
esthetically or property wise, not wanting to maintain it, etc. are all
points I would bring to the neighbor, but if it were me I take the high
road. Tell him what your thoughts and expectations are, hoping there is an
understanding friendly neighbor. But walking in with an attitude, or worse,
a letter from your lawyer, (sorry guys, and my brother is a lawyer) will
most likely only make matters worse.
When I built a 6 ft stockade across the back of my property, abutting two
other properties, I built it one foot inside the property line, faced the
better side toward the neighbors, and paid for it myself.
I never heard a complaint. But then I'm 6'3" and 320 lbs. ride a Harley and
have two sons bigger than me. Go figure.

Dave

"David Babcock"

I wasn't advocating he pay for his neighbors fence, just the opposite.
What
I was saying is do it civilly, like the neighbor should have done with
him.


Guess I mis-understood.

But then I'm 6'3" and 320 lbs. ride a Harley and
have two sons bigger than me. Go figure.

Dave

No complaints from me either, friend.
Ed

David Babcock wrote:

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"David Babcock" wrote in message

To cut this short, let's get back to the important
idea.....livability.
Sit down without any agenda's and discuss as neighbors what your
feelings
are. Costs, maintenance, property lines........whatever, and hopefully
you
will get to where you stand, look your neighbor in the eye and shake
hands
as friends. And maybe put it in writing (for you legal eagles)

Yes, livability is important. Get him to pay for painting the portions of
your house that are visible from his property. After all, he does not
want
to look at a shabby house that brings property values down. I'm sure he
will want to chip in.

Where do you park your car? Is yours as nice as his? If not, get him to
make the payments on a new one.
Ed


I wasn't advocating he pay for his neighbors fence, just the opposite. What
I was saying is do it civilly, like the neighbor should have done with him.
All the points about needing the fence to have the pool, gaining nothing
esthetically or property wise, not wanting to maintain it, etc. are all
points I would bring to the neighbor, but if it were me I take the high
road. Tell him what your thoughts and expectations are, hoping there is an
understanding friendly neighbor. But walking in with an attitude, or worse,
a letter from your lawyer, (sorry guys, and my brother is a lawyer) will
most likely only make matters worse.
When I built a 6 ft stockade across the back of my property, abutting two
other properties, I built it one foot inside the property line, faced the
better side toward the neighbors, and paid for it myself.
I never heard a complaint. But then I'm 6'3" and 320 lbs. ride a Harley and
have two sons bigger than me. Go figure.

Dave
being a big guy i guess you learned to be civil.. the big ones that i
remember who grew up did so, and the ones that did not well someone
either shot them or they are in prison now..... young nephew tells me
that he cant stand to be around with his cousin, big kid, always picking
fights with the other guys his age at bars, pool halls.. i told him to
stay away from this guy, as someone is gonna get back at him and go to
their car an get their gun and let him have it(in their eyes it will be
the only alternative ) , sure enough he got shot in a bar.. so justice
prevailed, well at least for now.....

wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 22:40:04 -0600, "JerryMouse"
wrote:


Under most circumstances, yes.*

Never heard this argument - the fence was the other party's and placed
in all probability to comply with safety/zoning requirements because
of the pool.


Learn something new every day. You've heard of it now. Consider this: the
fence is not a pool fence - the fence is a property fence.

The fence was in place when the OP took title to his
property so the argument you make for "unjust enrichment" has no basis
in this instance.

1. Have you SEEN the neighbors in swim suits?
2. The owner paid more because of the fence (in all liklihood).
3. One can make the case that ALL the neighbors are enriched by the safety
features of the fence. The immediate neighbor more than anyone else.




2. If the neighbor puts up this new section of fence doesn't he have
to have your approval before he puts it on the property line,
otherwise he must put it just inside the property line?

If you say nothing when he erected the fence, you consented to its
placement. Where he puts the fence does not impact your obligations.
Either way, you're in for half.*


* Here's the drill. You are responsible for your portion of the cost
under the principle of unjust enrichment. At the first moment you
detect such a project underway, you must announce your opposition.
Failing to say anything, under the principle of "assent by silence,"
you implicitly conset to the construction and its attendant costs.


The OP has no obligation for the replacement or maintenance of his
neighbor's fence - it is solely the neighbors responsibility. Again
the fence was not a new addition but an existing feature of his
neighbor's property.

Nope. If it's a common fence - on the property line or close enough - its
value is shared. There's a difference between a property fence and a pool
fence: one has shared value, the other not.



Interestingly, much of contract law can be covered using "the fence"
concept as examples (the rest can be covered by the concepts of "the
bull" and "the pit").

When studying "the fence," you can get off into interesting areas
such as "no notice" (the fence was erected while you slept), "total
cost" (you consented - by silence - to the idea of a fence, but not
one made of polished marble with gold gryphens), and so on.

None of this is applicable to the instant case and it appears that it
is your intention to use obfuscation as the basis for your arguments!

Hey, that's what lawyers do. Although I admit, I've never handled a fence
case.