if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,

On 9/24/2016 5:09 AM, bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,



If you are going to be a dreamer, why don't you just dream that people
behave themselves?

On 9/24/2016 8:29 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/24/2016 5:09 AM, bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that
causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,



If you are going to be a dreamer, why don't you just dream that people
behave themselves?

Lot of stuff has been tried and police also carry tasers but even they
have killed people who had heart attacks afterwards. It is a pipe dream.

On 9/24/16 8:09 AM, bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,

Fast paralysis would most likely also stop the muscles that control
breathing. You would have a non-zero number who would be allergic,
croak, and thus cause uproars. There is a certain small number of people
who die from Tazers, mostly those with unknown (at least to the cop)
heart problems, high on various things (interactions with street drugs
would likely be another concern of neurotoxins).
Heck even just having someone hold them down can cause heart
attacks or positional asphyxiation.
If there was such a thing, the Defense Department would be
working on it.

On 9/24/2016 5:09 AM, bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,


They have Tasers for that. Unfortunately, they seem to think a taser has
to be followed by a few bullets to be effective.

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:53:04 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 9/24/2016 5:09 AM, bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,


They have Tasers for that. Unfortunately, they seem to think a taser has
to be followed by a few bullets to be effective.

I saw on a TV drama once where the police fired a "bean bag" shotgun
which knocked the person down and stunned them. Not knowing, would
that be something viable for any initial assault.

I'm not a LE officer but those I know who are even think that the
incidence of this action is out of control.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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On 9/24/2016 10:05 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:53:04 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 9/24/2016 5:09 AM, bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,


They have Tasers for that. Unfortunately, they seem to think a taser has
to be followed by a few bullets to be effective.

BS! In the Tulsa situation two different officers deployed weapons -
one chose a gun the other the Taser. Not second guessing which was the
correct choice, but that comment makes it seem the police are trying to
kill someone rather than stopping a threat which is the intent (or
should be). If the police WANTED to kill those people, the surest way
would be to just ignore them and their calls for help when their
neighbors turn on them.


I saw on a TV drama once where the police fired a "bean bag" shotgun
which knocked the person down and stunned them. Not knowing, would
that be something viable for any initial assault.

Depends. I have a friend who was on scene commander at a barricade
situation involving a looney tunes 70+ year old woman. This went on for
weeks and they attempted to take her down (after she'd fired upon
sheriff's deputies with a commitment order from the court) with a bean
bag round. Apparently she watched the same TV drama and had wrapped and
taped newspapers to her torso and extremities as a crude sort of body
armor. Hit her with the bean bag in the chest and it didn't do much
other than **** her off. (they eventually took her without injury)

Another one, within 6 miles of me involved a drugged out idiot who
knifed a family member and was running around with a knife. He refused
to stand still and cooperate and unfortunately when they fired the bean
bag round he ducked rather than zag, took it in the head and was killed.

What people either forget or choose to ignore is that the streets are
not a testing lab. The officer has a split second to react to the
threat (real or perceived) and there normally is no time to try Plan B.

I'm not a LE officer but those I know who are even think that the
incidence of this action is out of control.

No doubt there are cases such as that. However, until all the facts are
in and everything has been thoroughly analyzed the ones that you know -
if they are speaking of either the Charlotte or Tulsa incident - should
pour themselves a large cup of STFU and wait until the investigation is
completed. It what they would want if they were in those officer's
shoes. Either that or they are just idiots - Hey! It happens even in
the best of departments.g

BTW, could the Tulsa quick charging wind up being nothing more than an
effort to placate the BLM crowd? Like Baltimore? Will the charges
stand? Will there be a conviction? Stay tuned.

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:53:04 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 9/24/2016 5:09 AM, bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,


They have Tasers for that. Unfortunately, they seem to think a taser has
to be followed by a few bullets to be effective.

The taser just makes the perp stand still long enough so they can
shoot him.

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 05:09:16 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,

Sure Bob. Just sprinkle them with Fairy Dust. Maybe shake a chicken
neck at them and cast a Voodoo spell on the do bad. That would make
them walk the straight an narrow, right away.

On 9/24/2016 8:25 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 9/24/2016 10:05 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:53:04 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 9/24/2016 5:09 AM, bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that
causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,


They have Tasers for that. Unfortunately, they seem to think a taser has
to be followed by a few bullets to be effective.

BS! In the Tulsa situation two different officers deployed weapons -
one chose a gun the other the Taser. Not second guessing which was the
correct choice, but that comment makes it seem the police are trying to
kill someone rather than stopping a threat which is the intent (or
should be). If the police WANTED to kill those people, the surest way
would be to just ignore them and their calls for help when their
neighbors turn on them.

Both were the correct choice and they were used in the proper sequence.
Now the question is whether they should have been used at all.

On 9/24/2016 8:48 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 05:09:16 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,

Sure Bob. Just sprinkle them with Fairy Dust. Maybe shake a chicken
neck at them and cast a Voodoo spell on the do bad. That would make
them walk the straight an narrow, right away.



Phasers, set to stun. Always worked, never any unintended consequences
like heart attack, breathing paralysis, seizures. It just worked
perfectly every time.

On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 11:25:46 AM UTC-4, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
On 9/24/2016 10:05 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 07:53:04 -0700, Bob F wrote:

On 9/24/2016 5:09 AM, bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,


They have Tasers for that. Unfortunately, they seem to think a taser has
to be followed by a few bullets to be effective.

BS! In the Tulsa situation two different officers deployed weapons -
one chose a gun the other the Taser. Not second guessing which was the
correct choice, but that comment makes it seem the police are trying to
kill someone rather than stopping a threat which is the intent (or
should be). If the police WANTED to kill those people, the surest way
would be to just ignore them and their calls for help when their
neighbors turn on them.


+1

And in another recent incident, the shooting outside the convenience
store in Louisiana, the police apparently first used a taser and for
whatever reason, it wasn't effective. They wound up wrestling with
the perp on the ground and then shooting him. The perp had a gun in
his pocket. Taser's aren't perfect, they rely on a dart with a wire
sticking in the perp. Faced with an imminent deadly threat, they are
not the solution.



What people either forget or choose to ignore is that the streets are
not a testing lab. The officer has a split second to react to the
threat (real or perceived) and there normally is no time to try Plan B.

Exactly. That's why it's so difficult to convict a cop in one of
these shootings. If I was on the jury, even if the cop made a mistake,
I'd have a tough time finding them guilty when they have a split second
to make a decision in a volatile, toxic, dangerous situation that they
did not create. The perp created it.




I'm not a LE officer but those I know who are even think that the
incidence of this action is out of control.

No doubt there are cases such as that. However, until all the facts are
in and everything has been thoroughly analyzed the ones that you know -
if they are speaking of either the Charlotte or Tulsa incident - should
pour themselves a large cup of STFU and wait until the investigation is
completed. It what they would want if they were in those officer's
shoes. Either that or they are just idiots - Hey! It happens even in
the best of departments.g


+1



BTW, could the Tulsa quick charging wind up being nothing more than an
effort to placate the BLM crowd? Like Baltimore? Will the charges
stand? Will there be a conviction? Stay tuned.

+1

That seems to be the safest route these days. Charge knowing you have
no case, then let the jury acquit a year or two later, when things have
cooled down. What leads one to suspect that could be the case in Tulsa
is how quick the charges were brought. It's hard to imagine they did
a full, fair investigation of all the evidence in that short period of
time.

On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 11:48:57 AM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 05:09:16 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,

Sure Bob. Just sprinkle them with Fairy Dust. Maybe shake a chicken
neck at them and cast a Voodoo spell on the do bad. That would make
them walk the straight an narrow, right away.

Might as well dream of a miracle sauce to inject Hillary with next
time she has one of her coughing, seizing or collapsing episodes.

On 9/24/2016 11:59 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/24/2016 8:48 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 05:09:16 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that
causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,

Sure Bob. Just sprinkle them with Fairy Dust. Maybe shake a chicken
neck at them and cast a Voodoo spell on the do bad. That would make
them walk the straight an narrow, right away.



Phasers, set to stun. Always worked, never any unintended consequences
like heart attack, breathing paralysis, seizures. It just worked
perfectly every time.

Not correct. I recall two deaths, here in little DE. Could be several
hundred in US. Maybe not the taser but 300 lb miscreants with bad
hearts helped death happen.

I like to tell people that I know an ex-cop who killed a bank robber
about 50 years ago. Bank robber had knocked him to the ground where he
shot the robber while laying on the ground. The city police took him
off duty for a year and sent him to an FBI training school for a year.
He said they wanted to get rid of him. All cops know they can have
serious problems shooting someone and it is the last resort.

On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 12:28:21 PM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 9/24/2016 11:59 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/24/2016 8:48 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 05:09:16 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that
causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,

Sure Bob. Just sprinkle them with Fairy Dust. Maybe shake a chicken
neck at them and cast a Voodoo spell on the do bad. That would make
them walk the straight an narrow, right away.



Phasers, set to stun. Always worked, never any unintended consequences
like heart attack, breathing paralysis, seizures. It just worked
perfectly every time.

Not correct. I recall two deaths, here in little DE. Could be several
hundred in US. Maybe not the taser but 300 lb miscreants with bad
hearts helped death happen.


When was the Enterprise and Capt Kirk in DE?



I like to tell people that I know an ex-cop who killed a bank robber
about 50 years ago. Bank robber had knocked him to the ground where he
shot the robber while laying on the ground. The city police took him
off duty for a year and sent him to an FBI training school for a year.
He said they wanted to get rid of him. All cops know they can have
serious problems shooting someone and it is the last resort.

I have invented Bob's miracle device that will do what he wants.
When is Bob available for testing?

On 9/24/2016 12:47 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 12:28:21 PM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 9/24/2016 11:59 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/24/2016 8:48 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 05:09:16 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that
causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,

Sure Bob. Just sprinkle them with Fairy Dust. Maybe shake a chicken
neck at them and cast a Voodoo spell on the do bad. That would make
them walk the straight an narrow, right away.



Phasers, set to stun. Always worked, never any unintended consequences
like heart attack, breathing paralysis, seizures. It just worked
perfectly every time.

Not correct. I recall two deaths, here in little DE. Could be several
hundred in US. Maybe not the taser but 300 lb miscreants with bad
hearts helped death happen.


When was the Enterprise and Capt Kirk in DE?



I like to tell people that I know an ex-cop who killed a bank robber
about 50 years ago. Bank robber had knocked him to the ground where he
shot the robber while laying on the ground. The city police took him
off duty for a year and sent him to an FBI training school for a year.
He said they wanted to get rid of him. All cops know they can have
serious problems shooting someone and it is the last resort.

I have invented Bob's miracle device that will do what he wants.
When is Bob available for testing?

Phaser, taser, I knew what he referred to.

On 09/24/2016 12:09 PM, bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,


If the thug disobeys the cop, shoot the thug in the head, put a tag on his toe and call the morgue.

One less problem for society to deal with. Get it?

On 9/24/2016 10:05 AM, Frank wrote:
On 9/24/2016 12:47 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 12:28:21 PM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 9/24/2016 11:59 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/24/2016 8:48 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 05:09:16 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that
causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,

Sure Bob. Just sprinkle them with Fairy Dust. Maybe shake a chicken
neck at them and cast a Voodoo spell on the do bad. That would make
them walk the straight an narrow, right away.



Phasers, set to stun. Always worked, never any unintended consequences
like heart attack, breathing paralysis, seizures. It just worked
perfectly every time.

Not correct. I recall two deaths, here in little DE. Could be several
hundred in US. Maybe not the taser but 300 lb miscreants with bad
hearts helped death happen.


When was the Enterprise and Capt Kirk in DE?



I like to tell people that I know an ex-cop who killed a bank robber
about 50 years ago. Bank robber had knocked him to the ground where he
shot the robber while laying on the ground. The city police took him
off duty for a year and sent him to an FBI training school for a year.
He said they wanted to get rid of him. All cops know they can have
serious problems shooting someone and it is the last resort.

I have invented Bob's miracle device that will do what he wants.
When is Bob available for testing?

Phaser, taser, I knew what he referred to.

no you didn't.

Our newsgroup needs a new type of poster who stays on topic.

On 9/24/2016 9:04 AM, trader_4 wrote:


And in another recent incident, the shooting outside the convenience
store in Louisiana, the police apparently first used a taser and for
whatever reason, it wasn't effective. They wound up wrestling with
the perp on the ground and then shooting him. The perp had a gun in
his pocket. Taser's aren't perfect, they rely on a dart with a wire
sticking in the perp. Faced with an imminent deadly threat, they are
not the solution.

"The perp had a gun in his pocket."
Louisiana is an open carry state. There was nothing wrong with having a
gun in his pocket. It seems like in many cases, as soon as a gun is
seen, the "perp" is dead, even in open carry states.

The second amendment only applies to whites?


What people either forget or choose to ignore is that the streets are
not a testing lab. The officer has a split second to react to the
threat (real or perceived) and there normally is no time to try Plan B.

Problem is, they don't seem to have a plan A.

Exactly. That's why it's so difficult to convict a cop in one of
these shootings. If I was on the jury, even if the cop made a mistake,
I'd have a tough time finding them guilty when they have a split second
to make a decision in a volatile, toxic, dangerous situation that they
did not create. The perp created it.

The "perp" seems to often be innocent of any crime. They are just a
black man in the wrong spot when the cops show up, often looking for
someone else.





I'm not a LE officer but those I know who are even think that the
incidence of this action is out of control.

No doubt there are cases such as that. However, until all the facts are
in and everything has been thoroughly analyzed the ones that you know -
if they are speaking of either the Charlotte or Tulsa incident - should
pour themselves a large cup of STFU and wait until the investigation is
completed. It what they would want if they were in those officer's
shoes. Either that or they are just idiots - Hey! It happens even in
the best of departments.g


How many unarmed blacks have to get shot before you realize the cops are
creating part of the problem. Maybe they need to just slow down a little
and not just run in without evaluating the situation.

Take that 12 year old in the park with an airsoft gun. The cops got a
report of a child with a "gun" ( The caller to the police said he
thought it was a toy), and they drive up to within a few feet of the
boy, and kill him within seconds. They could have stopped a safe
distance away, and tried to figure out what was really going on, perhaps
safely behind their car, while reinforcements were called, but chose
what I consider a really stupid approach to the situation.

BTW, could the Tulsa quick charging wind up being nothing more than an
effort to placate the BLM crowd? Like Baltimore? Will the charges
stand? Will there be a conviction? Stay tuned.

Typically, there will be no conviction. There rarely is.

The guy in Tulsa walked to his broken down car with his hands up, placed
his hands on the top of his car, then was tased and shot. The cops
claimed he reached into the car, but the car windows were closed, so
that was clearly not possible. Closed windows, with blood running down
the window onto the door after the shooting.

The cops claim he had a gun, but that is not illegal - It's an open
carry state. Do they shoot every white man they think has a gun?

The "perp"s crime seems to be having his car break down while black.

They claim he was on PCP, but the experts I've seen make it pretty clear
his actions were not those of a person high on PCP. He looked pretty
slow and careful to me.

That seems to be the safest route these days. Charge knowing you have
no case, then let the jury acquit a year or two later, when things have
cooled down. What leads one to suspect that could be the case in Tulsa
is how quick the charges were brought. It's hard to imagine they did
a full, fair investigation of all the evidence in that short period of
time.


Or maybe the prosecutor could see that this really looks like a bad
shoot. That seems pretty clear to me.

But no, the guy was black, so he must be a "bad dude" high on PCP ready
to kill all the cops in sight, so must be murdered immediately.

the Taser was supposed to help with many of these situations,
when actually used, and in theory should work,
but maybe the emotions get in the way, of rationally thinking it through,
in the heat of the moment for the police...

a knock out dart of some kind might be worth trying,
like they use with animals...?

marc

bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not
kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro
toxin that
causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,

No, what we need is a new type of citizen that obeys
authority and complies to an officers command. In EVERYONE
of this incidences, had the citizen/criminal complied and
put their hands behind their backs and been carted off to
jai they would ALL be ALIVE today. And your president has
encouraged them to be disobedient. Hell, Massachusetts
Supreme Court has declared that black men have a legitimate
reason to run from the police. REALLY?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/bla...D=ansmsnnews11

On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 1:35:26 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 9/24/2016 9:04 AM, trader_4 wrote:


And in another recent incident, the shooting outside the convenience
store in Louisiana, the police apparently first used a taser and for
whatever reason, it wasn't effective. They wound up wrestling with
the perp on the ground and then shooting him. The perp had a gun in
his pocket. Taser's aren't perfect, they rely on a dart with a wire
sticking in the perp. Faced with an imminent deadly threat, they are
not the solution.

"The perp had a gun in his pocket."
Louisiana is an open carry state. There was nothing wrong with having a
gun in his pocket. It seems like in many cases, as soon as a gun is
seen, the "perp" is dead, even in open carry states.

Sigh. Another poor confused lib. "Open carry" is just that, carrying
a firearm where it can be seen. It is not carrying it in your pocket
which is "concealed carry". But it doesn't end there. The perp in
Louisiana, Alton Sterling, had a long rap sheet with dozens of serious
convictions, including FELONIES. A felon is not legally permitted to carry
firearms period. And finally, even if you are licensed to carry, you
have to be one dumb AH or have a death wish, to resist arrest,
struggle with police, when you have that gun on you. Actions have
consequences, you know.




The second amendment only applies to whites?


Typical confused lib who know nothing about guns, gun laws
or the constitution.




What people either forget or choose to ignore is that the streets are
not a testing lab. The officer has a split second to react to the
threat (real or perceived) and there normally is no time to try Plan B.

Problem is, they don't seem to have a plan A.

Clearly they did in all the incidents under discussion here. All started
with the police properly engaging the perp, trying to get them to comply
to commands, to cooperate. It didn't start with a fatal shooting, it
only ended there after a long period of bad actions on the part of the
perp. The perp created the toxic, volatile, dangerous situation.




Exactly. That's why it's so difficult to convict a cop in one of
these shootings. If I was on the jury, even if the cop made a mistake,
I'd have a tough time finding them guilty when they have a split second
to make a decision in a volatile, toxic, dangerous situation that they
did not create. The perp created it.

The "perp" seems to often be innocent of any crime. They are just a
black man in the wrong spot when the cops show up, often looking for
someone else.


Really? Michael Brown? Eric Garner? Alton Sterling? All had committed
crimes. The two in the latest incident? One apparently was holding a
gun, refused to drop it. The other had PCP in his car and was likely on
PCP at the time.








I'm not a LE officer but those I know who are even think that the
incidence of this action is out of control.

No doubt there are cases such as that. However, until all the facts are
in and everything has been thoroughly analyzed the ones that you know -
if they are speaking of either the Charlotte or Tulsa incident - should
pour themselves a large cup of STFU and wait until the investigation is
completed. It what they would want if they were in those officer's
shoes. Either that or they are just idiots - Hey! It happens even in
the best of departments.g


How many unarmed blacks have to get shot before you realize the cops are
creating part of the problem. Maybe they need to just slow down a little
and not just run in without evaluating the situation.


Clearly with all the factual errors you've just made here, you're
the one that should re-valuate.



Take that 12 year old in the park with an airsoft gun. The cops got a
report of a child with a "gun" ( The caller to the police said he
thought it was a toy), and they drive up to within a few feet of the
boy, and kill him within seconds. They could have stopped a safe
distance away, and tried to figure out what was really going on, perhaps
safely behind their car, while reinforcements were called, but chose
what I consider a really stupid approach to the situation.

Even this you have wrong in a very major way. The radio message to the
responding officers did not say it was a "child", only that it was
somebody pointing a gun at people.

I agree that this is an example where the police should have handled
it differently, mainly by not driving right up to the suspect.




BTW, could the Tulsa quick charging wind up being nothing more than an
effort to placate the BLM crowd? Like Baltimore? Will the charges
stand? Will there be a conviction? Stay tuned.

Typically, there will be no conviction. There rarely is.

The guy in Tulsa walked to his broken down car with his hands up, placed
his hands on the top of his car, then was tased and shot. The cops
claimed he reached into the car, but the car windows were closed, so
that was clearly not possible. Closed windows, with blood running down
the window onto the door after the shooting.

Given your track record with the "facts" from the other cases, here
you go again. It's not clear exactly what happened in these new
cases.



The cops claim he had a gun, but that is not illegal - It's an open
carry state. Do they shoot every white man they think has a gun?


Does every person, regardless of race, refuse to drop the gun
when confronted by police, who tell them to do so, with their
own weapons drawn? THAT and similar stupid behavior is the problem,
not the color of anyone's skin.


The "perp"s crime seems to be having his car break down while black.

They claim he was on PCP, but the experts I've seen make it pretty clear
his actions were not those of a person high on PCP. He looked pretty
slow and careful to me.


Typical, now you're an arm chair expert in detection of PCP.
No need to wait for the lab work. His actions of irrational behavior
and defying police fit the profile of PCP that I've seen and heard.


That seems to be the safest route these days. Charge knowing you have
no case, then let the jury acquit a year or two later, when things have
cooled down. What leads one to suspect that could be the case in Tulsa
is how quick the charges were brought. It's hard to imagine they did
a full, fair investigation of all the evidence in that short period of
time.


Or maybe the prosecutor could see that this really looks like a bad
shoot. That seems pretty clear to me.

But no, the guy was black, so he must be a "bad dude" high on PCP ready
to kill all the cops in sight, so must be murdered immediately.

Who said that?

On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 1:58:04 PM UTC-4, ChairMan wrote:
bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not
kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro
toxin that
causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,

No, what we need is a new type of citizen that obeys
authority and complies to an officers command. In EVERYONE
of this incidences, had the citizen/criminal complied and
put their hands behind their backs and been carted off to
jai they would ALL be ALIVE today. And your president has
encouraged them to be disobedient. Hell, Massachusetts
Supreme Court has declared that black men have a legitimate
reason to run from the police. REALLY?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/bla...D=ansmsnnews11

+1

On 9/24/16 2:12 PM, trader_4 wrote:




Take that 12 year old in the park with an airsoft gun. The cops got a
report of a child with a "gun" ( The caller to the police said he
thought it was a toy), and they drive up to within a few feet of the
boy, and kill him within seconds. They could have stopped a safe
distance away, and tried to figure out what was really going on, perhaps
safely behind their car, while reinforcements were called, but chose
what I consider a really stupid approach to the situation.



Even this you have wrong in a very major way. The radio message to the
responding officers did not say it was a "child", only that it was
somebody pointing a gun at people.

I agree that this is an example where the police should have handled
it differently, mainly by not driving right up to the suspect.
But then if it was a real gun and they shot someone in the interim,
they'd be in at least as much doo doo and many of the same people would
be talking about how this illustrates how little the Police car for
people "in the community".

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 09:47:40 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:

On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 12:28:21 PM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 9/24/2016 11:59 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 9/24/2016 8:48 AM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 05:09:16 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that
causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,

Sure Bob. Just sprinkle them with Fairy Dust. Maybe shake a chicken
neck at them and cast a Voodoo spell on the do bad. That would make
them walk the straight an narrow, right away.



Phasers, set to stun. Always worked, never any unintended consequences
like heart attack, breathing paralysis, seizures. It just worked
perfectly every time.

Not correct. I recall two deaths, here in little DE. Could be several
hundred in US. Maybe not the taser but 300 lb miscreants with bad
hearts helped death happen.


When was the Enterprise and Capt Kirk in DE?



I like to tell people that I know an ex-cop who killed a bank robber
about 50 years ago. Bank robber had knocked him to the ground where he
shot the robber while laying on the ground. The city police took him
off duty for a year and sent him to an FBI training school for a year.
He said they wanted to get rid of him. All cops know they can have
serious problems shooting someone and it is the last resort.

I have invented Bob's miracle device that will do what he wants.
When is Bob available for testing?

I'd love to see that!!

On 9/24/2016 1:33 PM, Bob F wrote:

"The perp had a gun in his pocket."
Louisiana is an open carry state. There was nothing wrong with having a
gun in his pocket. It seems like in many cases, as soon as a gun is
seen, the "perp" is dead, even in open carry states.

The second amendment only applies to whites?

Why are you making it a race thing?



The "perp" seems to often be innocent of any crime. They are just a
black man in the wrong spot when the cops show up, often looking for
someone else.

Seemed like odd circumstances in the middle of the road straddling the
center line.




The guy in Tulsa walked to his broken down car with his hands up, placed
his hands on the top of his car, then was tased and shot. The cops
claimed he reached into the car, but the car windows were closed, so
that was clearly not possible. Closed windows, with blood running down
the window onto the door after the shooting.

The cops claim he had a gun, but that is not illegal - It's an open
carry state. Do they shoot every white man they think has a gun?

The "perp"s crime seems to be having his car break down while black.\

Your opinion, but how do you know race played a part? Would the same
thing happen if he was white and had the same size and same actions?

They claim he was on PCP, but the experts I've seen make it pretty clear
his actions were not those of a person high on PCP. He looked pretty
slow and careful to me.


I'm sure they will test to find out for sure.





Or maybe the prosecutor could see that this really looks like a bad
shoot. That seems pretty clear to me.

But no, the guy was black, so he must be a "bad dude" high on PCP ready
to kill all the cops in sight, so must be murdered immediately.


White or black, he did look like a bad dude to me. I'd not want to
tangle with him.

I'm not saying there are racist people as I know plenty of them. Just
because the guy is black we cannot say it was a racially biased
shooting, at least not yet. To assume it was is just as racists as it
would be if it really was. Let's see the evidence.

On 24/09/2016 19:12, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 1:35:26 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 9/24/2016 9:04 AM, trader_4 wrote:


And in another recent incident, the shooting outside the convenience
store in Louisiana, the police apparently first used a taser and for
whatever reason, it wasn't effective. They wound up wrestling with
the perp on the ground and then shooting him. The perp had a gun in
his pocket. Taser's aren't perfect, they rely on a dart with a wire
sticking in the perp. Faced with an imminent deadly threat, they are
not the solution.

"The perp had a gun in his pocket."
Louisiana is an open carry state. There was nothing wrong with having a
gun in his pocket. It seems like in many cases, as soon as a gun is
seen, the "perp" is dead, even in open carry states.

Sigh. Another poor confused lib. "Open carry" is just that, carrying
a firearm where it can be seen. It is not carrying it in your pocket
which is "concealed carry". But it doesn't end there. The perp in
Louisiana, Alton Sterling, had a long rap sheet with dozens of serious
convictions, including FELONIES. A felon is not legally permitted to carry
firearms period. And finally, even if you are licensed to carry, you
have to be one dumb AH or have a death wish, to resist arrest,
struggle with police, when you have that gun on you. Actions have
consequences, you know.




The second amendment only applies to whites?


Typical confused lib who know nothing about guns, gun laws
or the constitution.




What people either forget or choose to ignore is that the streets are
not a testing lab. The officer has a split second to react to the
threat (real or perceived) and there normally is no time to try Plan B.

Problem is, they don't seem to have a plan A.

Clearly they did in all the incidents under discussion here. All started
with the police properly engaging the perp, trying to get them to comply
to commands, to cooperate. It didn't start with a fatal shooting, it
only ended there after a long period of bad actions on the part of the
perp. The perp created the toxic, volatile, dangerous situation.




Exactly. That's why it's so difficult to convict a cop in one of
these shootings. If I was on the jury, even if the cop made a mistake,
I'd have a tough time finding them guilty when they have a split second
to make a decision in a volatile, toxic, dangerous situation that they
did not create. The perp created it.

The "perp" seems to often be innocent of any crime. They are just a
black man in the wrong spot when the cops show up, often looking for
someone else.


Really? Michael Brown? Eric Garner? Alton Sterling? All had committed
crimes. The two in the latest incident? One apparently was holding a
gun, refused to drop it. The other had PCP in his car and was likely on
PCP at the time.








I'm not a LE officer but those I know who are even think that the
incidence of this action is out of control.

No doubt there are cases such as that. However, until all the facts are
in and everything has been thoroughly analyzed the ones that you know -
if they are speaking of either the Charlotte or Tulsa incident - should
pour themselves a large cup of STFU and wait until the investigation is
completed. It what they would want if they were in those officer's
shoes. Either that or they are just idiots - Hey! It happens even in
the best of departments.g


How many unarmed blacks have to get shot before you realize the cops are
creating part of the problem. Maybe they need to just slow down a little
and not just run in without evaluating the situation.


Clearly with all the factual errors you've just made here, you're
the one that should re-valuate.



Take that 12 year old in the park with an airsoft gun. The cops got a
report of a child with a "gun" ( The caller to the police said he
thought it was a toy), and they drive up to within a few feet of the
boy, and kill him within seconds. They could have stopped a safe
distance away, and tried to figure out what was really going on, perhaps
safely behind their car, while reinforcements were called, but chose
what I consider a really stupid approach to the situation.

Even this you have wrong in a very major way. The radio message to the
responding officers did not say it was a "child", only that it was
somebody pointing a gun at people.

I agree that this is an example where the police should have handled
it differently, mainly by not driving right up to the suspect.




BTW, could the Tulsa quick charging wind up being nothing more than an
effort to placate the BLM crowd? Like Baltimore? Will the charges
stand? Will there be a conviction? Stay tuned.

Typically, there will be no conviction. There rarely is.

The guy in Tulsa walked to his broken down car with his hands up, placed
his hands on the top of his car, then was tased and shot. The cops
claimed he reached into the car, but the car windows were closed, so
that was clearly not possible. Closed windows, with blood running down
the window onto the door after the shooting.

Given your track record with the "facts" from the other cases, here
you go again. It's not clear exactly what happened in these new
cases.



The cops claim he had a gun, but that is not illegal - It's an open
carry state. Do they shoot every white man they think has a gun?


Does every person, regardless of race, refuse to drop the gun
when confronted by police, who tell them to do so, with their
own weapons drawn? THAT and similar stupid behavior is the problem,
not the color of anyone's skin.


The "perp"s crime seems to be having his car break down while black.

They claim he was on PCP, but the experts I've seen make it pretty clear
his actions were not those of a person high on PCP. He looked pretty
slow and careful to me.


Typical, now you're an arm chair expert in detection of PCP.
No need to wait for the lab work. His actions of irrational behavior
and defying police fit the profile of PCP that I've seen and heard.


That seems to be the safest route these days. Charge knowing you have
no case, then let the jury acquit a year or two later, when things have
cooled down. What leads one to suspect that could be the case in Tulsa
is how quick the charges were brought. It's hard to imagine they did
a full, fair investigation of all the evidence in that short period of
time.


Or maybe the prosecutor could see that this really looks like a bad
shoot. That seems pretty clear to me.

But no, the guy was black, so he must be a "bad dude" high on PCP ready
to kill all the cops in sight, so must be murdered immediately.

Who said that?

The cop in the helicopter. It's on the audio from the helicopter footage.

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 05:09:16 -0700 (PDT)
bob haller wrote:

From: bob haller
Subject: our country needs a new type of firearm for police
Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2016 05:09:16 -0700 (PDT)
User-Agent: G2/1.0
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair

if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that
causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,


Nonsense of the first order.

Stupid criminal does something stupid.
Stupid criminal gets shot stupid dead.

That is the order of things.
That is how it should be.

BTW how many felons do you have in your house
rehabilitating?

On 9/24/2016 3:39 PM, burfordTjustice wrote:
Nonsense of the first order.

Stupid criminal does something stupid.
Stupid criminal gets shot stupid dead.

That is the order of things.
That is how it should be.

BTW how many felons do you have in your house
rehabilitating?

+1

Bod formulated on Saturday :
On 24/09/2016 19:12, trader_4 wrote:
On Saturday, September 24, 2016 at 1:35:26 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
On 9/24/2016 9:04 AM, trader_4 wrote:


And in another recent incident, the shooting outside the convenience
store in Louisiana, the police apparently first used a taser and for
whatever reason, it wasn't effective. They wound up wrestling with
the perp on the ground and then shooting him. The perp had a gun in
his pocket. Taser's aren't perfect, they rely on a dart with a wire
sticking in the perp. Faced with an imminent deadly threat, they are
not the solution.

"The perp had a gun in his pocket."
Louisiana is an open carry state. There was nothing wrong with having a
gun in his pocket. It seems like in many cases, as soon as a gun is
seen, the "perp" is dead, even in open carry states.

Sigh. Another poor confused lib. "Open carry" is just that, carrying
a firearm where it can be seen. It is not carrying it in your pocket
which is "concealed carry". But it doesn't end there. The perp in
Louisiana, Alton Sterling, had a long rap sheet with dozens of serious
convictions, including FELONIES. A felon is not legally permitted to carry
firearms period. And finally, even if you are licensed to carry, you
have to be one dumb AH or have a death wish, to resist arrest,
struggle with police, when you have that gun on you. Actions have
consequences, you know.




The second amendment only applies to whites?


Typical confused lib who know nothing about guns, gun laws
or the constitution.




What people either forget or choose to ignore is that the streets are
not a testing lab. The officer has a split second to react to the
threat (real or perceived) and there normally is no time to try Plan B.

Problem is, they don't seem to have a plan A.

Clearly they did in all the incidents under discussion here. All started
with the police properly engaging the perp, trying to get them to comply
to commands, to cooperate. It didn't start with a fatal shooting, it
only ended there after a long period of bad actions on the part of the
perp. The perp created the toxic, volatile, dangerous situation.




Exactly. That's why it's so difficult to convict a cop in one of
these shootings. If I was on the jury, even if the cop made a mistake,
I'd have a tough time finding them guilty when they have a split second
to make a decision in a volatile, toxic, dangerous situation that they
did not create. The perp created it.

The "perp" seems to often be innocent of any crime. They are just a
black man in the wrong spot when the cops show up, often looking for
someone else.


Really? Michael Brown? Eric Garner? Alton Sterling? All had committed
crimes. The two in the latest incident? One apparently was holding a
gun, refused to drop it. The other had PCP in his car and was likely on
PCP at the time.








I'm not a LE officer but those I know who are even think that the
incidence of this action is out of control.

No doubt there are cases such as that. However, until all the facts are
in and everything has been thoroughly analyzed the ones that you know -
if they are speaking of either the Charlotte or Tulsa incident - should
pour themselves a large cup of STFU and wait until the investigation is
completed. It what they would want if they were in those officer's
shoes. Either that or they are just idiots - Hey! It happens even in
the best of departments.g


How many unarmed blacks have to get shot before you realize the cops are
creating part of the problem. Maybe they need to just slow down a little
and not just run in without evaluating the situation.


Clearly with all the factual errors you've just made here, you're
the one that should re-valuate.



Take that 12 year old in the park with an airsoft gun. The cops got a
report of a child with a "gun" ( The caller to the police said he
thought it was a toy), and they drive up to within a few feet of the
boy, and kill him within seconds. They could have stopped a safe
distance away, and tried to figure out what was really going on, perhaps
safely behind their car, while reinforcements were called, but chose
what I consider a really stupid approach to the situation.

Even this you have wrong in a very major way. The radio message to the
responding officers did not say it was a "child", only that it was
somebody pointing a gun at people.

I agree that this is an example where the police should have handled
it differently, mainly by not driving right up to the suspect.




BTW, could the Tulsa quick charging wind up being nothing more than an
effort to placate the BLM crowd? Like Baltimore? Will the charges
stand? Will there be a conviction? Stay tuned.

Typically, there will be no conviction. There rarely is.

The guy in Tulsa walked to his broken down car with his hands up, placed
his hands on the top of his car, then was tased and shot. The cops
claimed he reached into the car, but the car windows were closed, so
that was clearly not possible. Closed windows, with blood running down
the window onto the door after the shooting.

Given your track record with the "facts" from the other cases, here
you go again. It's not clear exactly what happened in these new
cases.



The cops claim he had a gun, but that is not illegal - It's an open
carry state. Do they shoot every white man they think has a gun?


Does every person, regardless of race, refuse to drop the gun
when confronted by police, who tell them to do so, with their
own weapons drawn? THAT and similar stupid behavior is the problem,
not the color of anyone's skin.


The "perp"s crime seems to be having his car break down while black.

They claim he was on PCP, but the experts I've seen make it pretty clear
his actions were not those of a person high on PCP. He looked pretty
slow and careful to me.


Typical, now you're an arm chair expert in detection of PCP.
No need to wait for the lab work. His actions of irrational behavior
and defying police fit the profile of PCP that I've seen and heard.


That seems to be the safest route these days. Charge knowing you have
no case, then let the jury acquit a year or two later, when things have
cooled down. What leads one to suspect that could be the case in Tulsa
is how quick the charges were brought. It's hard to imagine they did
a full, fair investigation of all the evidence in that short period of
time.


Or maybe the prosecutor could see that this really looks like a bad
shoot. That seems pretty clear to me.

But no, the guy was black, so he must be a "bad dude" high on PCP ready
to kill all the cops in sight, so must be murdered immediately.

Who said that?

The cop in the helicopter. It's on the audio from the helicopter footage.

He said "Big Bad Dude" which is more of a figure of speech than it is
anything else. Anybody that size could be called that even if he is a
"Gentle Giant" and not a bad person at all. It is sad that anybody
takes an utterance like that as having any real meaning at all -
grasping at straws to further their own agenda is how I see it.

On 09/24/2016 05:09 AM, bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,


There could be a downside to that. The perps would know
they would survive and get more aggressive.

Better to train folks to ofay the commands of the cops.

On 9/24/2016 5:39 PM, T wrote:
On 09/24/2016 05:09 AM, bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that
causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,


There could be a downside to that. The perps would know
they would survive and get more aggressive.

Better to train folks to obey the commands of the cops.

Doubt it would make a difference. It is widely known that if you commit
a crime there is punishment, yet every day people are killed, cars are
stolen, banks are robbed. They won't catch me though.

On 09/24/2016 04:49 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/24/2016 5:39 PM, T wrote:
On 09/24/2016 05:09 AM, bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that
causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,


There could be a downside to that. The perps would know
they would survive and get more aggressive.

Better to train folks to obey the commands of the cops.

Doubt it would make a difference. It is widely known that if you commit
a crime there is punishment, yet every day people are killed, cars are
stolen, banks are robbed. They won't catch me though.

How high is the reward on you now?

On 9/24/2016 7:49 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/24/2016 5:39 PM, T wrote:
On 09/24/2016 05:09 AM, bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that
causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,


There could be a downside to that. The perps would know
they would survive and get more aggressive.

Better to train folks to obey the commands of the cops.

Doubt it would make a difference. It is widely known that if you commit a crime there is punishment, yet every day people are killed, cars are stolen, banks are robbed. They won't catch me though.


The problem is we are soft on crime. Car thieves, bank robbers, telemarketers, street thugs should be euthanized. Eliminate the criminals and the world becomes a safer place for all of us.

On 09/24/2016 05:16 PM, Tax Payer wrote:
On 9/24/2016 7:49 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 9/24/2016 5:39 PM, T wrote:
On 09/24/2016 05:09 AM, bob haller wrote:
if hit it would disable the person immediately, but not kill them.

perhps something combining a physical hit with a neuro toxin that
causes fast paralysis.

so the suspect isnt able to hurt anyone else,


There could be a downside to that. The perps would know
they would survive and get more aggressive.

Better to train folks to obey the commands of the cops.

Doubt it would make a difference. It is widely known that if you
commit a crime there is punishment, yet every day people are killed,
cars are stolen, banks are robbed. They won't catch me though.


The problem is we are soft on crime. Car thieves, bank robbers,
telemarketers, street thugs should be euthanized. Eliminate the
criminals and the world becomes a safer place for all of us.


And people who talk in theaters and fart in crowded elevators ...

I would not go as far as the death penalty on the above,
although I would make it mandatory for a second offense
pedophile. Or being British. Okay, not being British.

But you are right about the punishment. I think hard labor
should be brought back. A good example of how to do things
is the way Sheriff Arpaio does it.

Okay, maybe we should just force the British to lean
French. Then they could condescend in two
languages whilst their mouths are full of food.

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 10:33:47 -0700, Bob F wrote:

"The perp had a gun in his pocket."
Louisiana is an open carry state. There was nothing wrong with having a
gun in his pocket.

Think through that comment again. Open carry means in plain view and
cannot be concealed in a pocket, under a shirt, etc. Concealed carry
with a permit cannot be exposed to plain view. That would considered
brandishing a firearm.

You can check the law in LA, but in Nevada it is as I mentioned above.
Nevada is open carry, no registration, no more "blue card" permit for
each handgun. Cheaper to just open carry without all the bull shizzle
red tape for a concealed permit.

Per Bob F:
Take that 12 year old in the park with an airsoft gun. The cops got a
report of a child with a "gun" ( The caller to the police said he
thought it was a toy), and they drive up to within a few feet of the
boy, and kill him within seconds. They could have stopped a safe
distance away, and tried to figure out what was really going on, perhaps
safely behind their car, while reinforcements were called, but chose
what I consider a really stupid approach to the situation.

And the latest one - where the wife was shooting video while telling the
cops that her husband was on some sort of medication.... I can't figure
out why on earth the cops, at that point, couldn't have just backed off
and waited for things to settle down... it's not like the guy had a
pump-action shotgun and was firing at people.

Same with a 15-year-old girl recently: they handcuffed her, got her
mostly into the car and then, when she refused to pull her feet inside
the door, they maced her. Geeze..... How about you just step back and
tell her than you're getting paid by the hour and she can lay there
until the cows come home... but sooner or later she's going to get tired
of it?

They seem heavily biased or trained towards exacting total immediate
submission no matter what - and escalating force until they get it.


And how about the wacko hiding in the boat after planting the Boston
Marathon bombs? They had him surrounded, there was no way in the
world he was going anywhere... Nobody knew how many other bombs he had
planted - so it would seem like a really, really, *really* good idea to
take him alive and able to talk..... Instead they poured fire into that
boat for at least 20 seconds.... by some miracle, he survived and was
able to be questioned but it was just that: a miracle....... My
impression of that whole thing was "Keystone Cops in action".
--
Pete Cresswell

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 17:53:00 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 10:33:47 -0700, Bob F wrote:

"The perp had a gun in his pocket."
Louisiana is an open carry state. There was nothing wrong with having a
gun in his pocket.

Think through that comment again.

That would require engaging his brain and that happens only on rare occasions.

Open carry means in plain view and
cannot be concealed in a pocket, under a shirt, etc. Concealed carry
with a permit cannot be exposed to plain view. That would considered
brandishing a firearm.

You can check the law in LA, but in Nevada it is as I mentioned above.
Nevada is open carry, no registration, no more "blue card" permit for
each handgun. Cheaper to just open carry without all the bull shizzle
red tape for a concealed permit.

On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 11:05:18 -0400, wrote:

I saw on a TV drama once where the police fired a "bean bag" shotgun
which knocked the person down and stunned them. Not knowing, would
that be something viable for any initial assault.

I don't know what you saw shot on TV from a shotgun. Maybe a rubber
slug, So called "been bags" are actually filled with lead bird shot
or sand in a cloth bag ~ the size of a silver dollar. They are used
in close proximity places like jail or prison cells. Little velocity
and poor trajectory. Not for a long distance application. Aside, some
larger people can take several hits with no affect.

I have a bird shot "bean bag" here at home. My wife was a certified
stun gun instructor and a range master during training. 37 mm...

Pics:

Bag & Ammo

https://tinyurl.com/h28ocko

Sample Riot 37mm rifle

https://tinyurl.com/j62un4n