A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash
computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a
surge suppressor.

Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a
good idea or a not so good idea.

Steve

On Wed, 18 May 2016 22:56:01 -0400, Steve Stone
wrote:

A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash
computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a
surge suppressor.

Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a
good idea or a not so good idea.

Steve
I power my whole house through a surge protector

On 5/18/2016 7:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer
controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor.

Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea
or a not so good idea.

That depends on what you think you'll be protecting against,
whether your utilities are overhead or below grade, where the
nearest step-down Xformer is for your little feed (usually,
~4 homes in a cluster).

It also depends on the quality of surge protector you install.

Many are just "surge protectors" in name, only.

On Wed, 18 May 2016 23:14:47 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 18 May 2016 22:56:01 -0400, Steve Stone
wrote:

A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash
computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a
surge suppressor.

Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a
good idea or a not so good idea.

Steve
I power my whole house through a surge protector

Not a bad plan, just be sure your grounding electrode system is up to
the task. Point of use protectors are basically for devices that have
multiple inputs but are still just to catch things a robust array
point of entry protectors missed.

On 05/18/2016 08:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor.

Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea or a not so good idea.

Steve


Anything you do to minimize voltage spikes on your power line is a good thing...just keep in mind that the typical surge suppression device needs a good path to ground to function properly.

FWIW, most homes don't have a good ground system. You'll typically find the outdoor connection from the #6 ground wire to the ground rod is loose and/or corroded.

On 05/19/2016 03:24 AM, Roscoe wrote:
On 05/18/2016 08:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash
computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a
surge suppressor.

Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a
good idea or a not so good idea.

Steve


Anything you do to minimize voltage spikes on your power line is a good
thing...just keep in mind that the typical surge suppression device
needs a good path to ground to function properly.

FWIW, most homes don't have a good ground system. You'll typically find
the outdoor connection from the #6 ground wire to the ground rod is
loose and/or corroded.





Not really. A surge suppressor is simply an MOV which will shunt voltage
spikes.

On Wed, 18 May 2016 20:33:10 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/18/2016 7:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer
controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor.

Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea
or a not so good idea.

That depends on what you think you'll be protecting against,
whether your utilities are overhead or below grade,

So is one of these safer than the other?

where the
nearest step-down Xformer is for your little feed (usually,
~4 homes in a cluster).

In my case, I'm the 8th townhouse from the xformer. 7 x 22 feet is
154 feet. Does this mean the first house is the most vulnerable and
it gets less as the distance increases?

It also depends on the quality of surge protector you install.

Many are just "surge protectors" in name, only.

SPINOs?

philo: "MOV"?

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 8:55:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:
philo: "MOV"?

Metal Oxide Varistor

Which doesn't diminish what it's purpose is and it's effectiveness.

But a new washing machine isn't the only electronics in the house.
Like Gfre says, best strategy is a whole house surge protector at
the panel or meter, with point-of-use type at eqpt that is also
connected to other lines, eg cable, phone, etc. If you're in a
situation where you can't put one on the panel, then point-of-use
at the washer can offer protection, but it's not the preferred
solution.

On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 11:33:13 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 5/18/2016 7:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer
controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor.

Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea
or a not so good idea.

That depends on what you think you'll be protecting against,
whether your utilities are overhead or below grade, where the
nearest step-down Xformer is for your little feed (usually,
~4 homes in a cluster).

It also depends on the quality of surge protector you install.

Many are just "surge protectors" in name, only.

And why did you start a whole new thread?

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 8:15:23 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2016 20:33:10 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/18/2016 7:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer
controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor.

Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea
or a not so good idea.

That depends on what you think you'll be protecting against,
whether your utilities are overhead or below grade,

So is one of these safer than the other?


Below grade is obviously safer, it can't get a direct hit from lightning
like overhead wired going to a house.



where the
nearest step-down Xformer is for your little feed (usually,
~4 homes in a cluster).

In my case, I'm the 8th townhouse from the xformer. 7 x 22 feet is
154 feet. Does this mean the first house is the most vulnerable and
it gets less as the distance increases?

I wouldn't worry about it. I doubt it makes much, if any difference and
I'm sure you won't see any data one way or the other. I've never seen
any surge protection experts have it enter into the discussion for how
you protect your home.

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 5:03:02 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 05/19/2016 03:24 AM, Roscoe wrote:
On 05/18/2016 08:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash
computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a
surge suppressor.

Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a
good idea or a not so good idea.

Steve


Anything you do to minimize voltage spikes on your power line is a good
thing...just keep in mind that the typical surge suppression device
needs a good path to ground to function properly.

FWIW, most homes don't have a good ground system. You'll typically find
the outdoor connection from the #6 ground wire to the ground rod is
loose and/or corroded.

Not really. A surge suppressor is simply an MOV which will shunt voltage
spikes.

The better ones have LC networks in them in addition to the MOV's. I like to cascade protection especially on signal lines where the first line of defense would be gas tube arrestors. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Shocking Monster

On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 10:56:06 PM UTC-4, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash
computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a
surge suppressor.

If a washer needs protection, then so does every household item including clocks, RCD, furnace, recharging phones, and the most critical item during a surge - smoke detectors. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to protect from destructive surges. Protection means a surge is connected to earth BEFORE it enters a building. No way around that well proven science.

Does not matter if AC service is overhead or underground. Risk from surges (lightning and other sources) remains. Even underground wires can carry a direct lightning strike into a building. Every wire in every incoming cable must connect to single point earth ground BEFORE entering. Otherwise a surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Earth ground (not a protector) is the most critical component in every protection 'system'.

What does an adjacent protector do? MOVs might connect that surge from hot wire to neutral or safety ground wires. Now that surge has even more paths to find earth ground destructively via a washer or other nearby appliance.. Adjacent protectors can even make damage easier if a 'whole house' solution is not implemented.

All appliances contain robust protection. Your concern is a rare transient that might occur once every seven years. That transient must be connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth BEFORE entering. Otherwise it will go hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to 'block' or 'absorb' that transient. If anything needs that protection, then everything needs that protection.

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 11:10:53 AM UTC-4, westom wrote:
On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 10:56:06 PM UTC-4, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash
computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a
surge suppressor.

If a washer needs protection, then so does every household item including clocks, RCD, furnace, recharging phones, and the most critical item during a surge - smoke detectors. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to protect from destructive surges. Protection means a surge is connected to earth BEFORE it enters a building. No way around that well proven science.

Does not matter if AC service is overhead or underground. Risk from surges (lightning and other sources) remains.

Sure it remains. But it does matter. With an underground service, the
lines leading from the street to the house, the masthead, etc are not
present and can't be hit by a direct lightning strike. Less target is
better than more target.



Even underground wires can carry a direct lightning strike into a building. Every wire in every incoming cable must connect to single point earth ground BEFORE entering. Otherwise a surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Earth ground (not a protector) is the most critical component in every protection 'system'.

What does an adjacent protector do? MOVs might connect that surge from hot wire to neutral or safety ground wires. Now that surge has even more paths to find earth ground destructively via a washer or other nearby appliance. Adjacent protectors can even make damage easier if a 'whole house' solution is not implemented.


You can listen to Tom or you can read what the electrical engineers that
specialize in surge protection say at IEEE and NIST. Both groups say
that point-of-use surge protectors do work, endorse them as part of a tiered
approach and standalone too.

http://www.nist.gov/pml/div684/upload/Surges_happen.pdf

http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/IEEE_Guide.pdf



All appliances contain robust protection.

Not as robust as the protection in a quality plug-in surge protector.



Your concern is a rare transient that might occur once every seven years. That transient must be connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth BEFORE entering. Otherwise it will go hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to 'block' or 'absorb' that transient. If anything needs that protection, then everything needs that protection.

Plug-ins/point-of-use work by clamping all the inputs to the same level.


I'm sure the usual W Tom rant will be forthcoming.

On Wed, 18 May 2016 20:33:10 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/18/2016 7:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer
controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor.

Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea
or a not so good idea.

That depends on what you think you'll be protecting against,
whether your utilities are overhead or below grade, where the
nearest step-down Xformer is for your little feed (usually,
~4 homes in a cluster).

It also depends on the quality of surge protector you install.

Many are just "surge protectors" in name, only.
Square D panel mounted durge protector on underground service 120
feet from the transformer. OK - so I KNOW it's overkill -and my
computers are protected on dual conversion UPS units too.

On Thu, 19 May 2016 05:03:00 -0500, philo wrote:

On 05/19/2016 03:24 AM, Roscoe wrote:
On 05/18/2016 08:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash
computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a
surge suppressor.

Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a
good idea or a not so good idea.

Steve


Anything you do to minimize voltage spikes on your power line is a good
thing...just keep in mind that the typical surge suppression device
needs a good path to ground to function properly.

FWIW, most homes don't have a good ground system. You'll typically find
the outdoor connection from the #6 ground wire to the ground rod is
loose and/or corroded.





Not really. A surge suppressor is simply an MOV which will shunt voltage
spikes.
There is all kinds of "surge protection" including line to neutral
and line to ground shunting, as well as reactive chokes

On Thu, 19 May 2016 08:10:46 -0700 (PDT), westom
wrote:

On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 10:56:06 PM UTC-4, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash
computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a
surge suppressor.

If a washer needs protection, then so does every household item including clocks, RCD, furnace, recharging phones, and the most critical item during a surge - smoke detectors. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to protect from destructive surges. Protection means a surge is connected to earth BEFORE it enters a building. No way around that well proven science.

Pre-entry is definitely best (whole house mprotection) My smoke
detectors are all battery operated - so no problem there. People tend
to protect the more expensive and critical cevices.

Does not matter if AC service is overhead or underground. Risk from surges (lightning and other sources) remains. Even underground wires can carry a direct lightning strike into a building. Every wire in every incoming cable must connect to single point earth ground BEFORE entering. Otherwise a surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Earth ground (not a protector) is the most critical component in every protection 'system'.

The chance of a "direct hit" on an underground service is a LOT less
than an overhead, and unserground does not act as much as an antenna
for a "near strike"

What does an adjacent protector do? MOVs might connect that surge from hot wire to neutral or safety ground wires. Now that surge has even more paths to find earth ground destructively via a washer or other nearby appliance. Adjacent protectors can even make damage easier if a 'whole house' solution is not implemented.

POU protectors protect against highn transients that either get
through or are caused inside the house

All appliances contain robust protection. Your concern is a rare transient that might occur once every seven years. That transient must be connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth BEFORE entering. Otherwise it will go hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to 'block' or 'absorb' that transient. If anything needs that protection, then everything needs that protection.


Your assumption that all appliances contain robust protection is open
to discussion. and dissagreement.

On 05/19/2016 07:55 AM, wrote:
philo: "MOV"?



http://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why-...rge-protector/

On Thu, 19 May 2016 08:25:40 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 11:10:53 AM UTC-4, westom wrote:
On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 10:56:06 PM UTC-4, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash
computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a
surge suppressor.

If a washer needs protection, then so does every household item including clocks, RCD, furnace, recharging phones, and the most critical item during a surge - smoke detectors. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to protect from destructive surges. Protection means a surge is connected to earth BEFORE it enters a building. No way around that well proven science.

Does not matter if AC service is overhead or underground. Risk from surges (lightning and other sources) remains.

Sure it remains. But it does matter. With an underground service, the
lines leading from the street to the house, the masthead, etc are not
present and can't be hit by a direct lightning strike. Less target is
better than more target.



Even underground wires can carry a direct lightning strike into a building. Every wire in every incoming cable must connect to single point earth ground BEFORE entering. Otherwise a surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Earth ground (not a protector) is the most critical component in every protection 'system'.

What does an adjacent protector do? MOVs might connect that surge from hot wire to neutral or safety ground wires. Now that surge has even more paths to find earth ground destructively via a washer or other nearby appliance. Adjacent protectors can even make damage easier if a 'whole house' solution is not implemented.


You can listen to Tom or you can read what the electrical engineers that
specialize in surge protection say at IEEE and NIST. Both groups say
that point-of-use surge protectors do work, endorse them as part of a tiered
approach and standalone too.

http://www.nist.gov/pml/div684/upload/Surges_happen.pdf

http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/IEEE_Guide.pdf



All appliances contain robust protection.

Not as robust as the protection in a quality plug-in surge protector.



Your concern is a rare transient that might occur once every seven years. That transient must be connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth BEFORE entering. Otherwise it will go hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to 'block' or 'absorb' that transient. If anything needs that protection, then everything needs that protection.

Plug-ins/point-of-use work by clamping all the inputs to the same level.


I'm sure the usual W Tom rant will be forthcoming.

Tom sells whole house protection and you definitely need it, connected
to a good grounding electrode. The only thing Tom disagrees about is
whether a point of use protector does anything. I do believe it will
damp out locally induced shots that get into the system after it
enters the house.
That would typically be an EMP that comes from lightning hitting a
tree in the back yard.
I have survived direct hits on a weather station on my garage ...
twice ... but I have pretty good protection in several layers
including on the signal line from the weather station..

On 05/19/2016 12:05 PM, wrote:
O

snip
All appliances contain robust protection. Your concern is a rare transient that might occur once every seven years. That transient must be connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth BEFORE entering. Otherwise it will go hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to 'block' or 'absorb' that transient. If anything needs that protection, then everything needs that protection.


Your assumption that all appliances contain robust protection is open
to discussion. and dissagreement.





Many years the utility pole directly behind my house got a direct
lightning hit. I was in the kitchen and almost lost it when I observed
the simultaneous lightning and thunder!


My answering machine was on the closest run to the outdoor wiring and
was taken out...but nothing else in the house was damaged.

On 5/19/2016 11:54 AM, philo wrote:
Many years the utility pole directly behind my house got a direct lightning
hit. I was in the kitchen and almost lost it when I observed the simultaneous
lightning and thunder!

As a kid, I used to play the "5 second game" (flash-to-sound) during
Tstorms. One evening, the house "shook" as I saw the flash. I.e.,
too startled to even think of "counting". Of course, had I tried
to count, I wouldn't have made it past "0"! :

Next morning, noticed lots of bark on the ground beneath one of the
walnut trees adjacent to the living room. "That's odd". Looked up
to see the bark peeled off one side of the tree all the way to the
top!
"Ah! That must have been what shook the house!"

My answering machine was on the closest run to the outdoor wiring and was taken
out...but nothing else in the house was damaged.

We had a "nearby" strike when living in Denver (no idea how close it was as
I was at work at the time). It took out the protection network in one of
our (cheap) "electronic" telephones -- resulting in a perpetual off-hook
indication (annoying cuz every time I tried to call home, the line was
"busy"!). Also magnetized the screen in our TV. Took many weeks of
the built-in degausser operating to restore color purity!

On Thu, 19 May 2016 13:54:46 -0500, philo wrote:

Many years the utility pole directly behind my house got a direct
lightning hit. I was in the kitchen and almost lost it when I observed
the simultaneous lightning and thunder!


My answering machine was on the closest run to the outdoor wiring and
was taken out...but nothing else in the house was damaged.



I was in my driveway with a Mexican concrete guy when my garage
mounted weather station was hit *the second time). Very exciting
stuff. The shock wave felt like getting hit in the face with a wet
towel. Everything was blue for a second. I am not sure if it was
really blue or that was just an electrical shock to the optic nerve.
It's a good thing the GDO was still working or my buddy Poncho would
have made a roadrunner style hole in the door.

On Thu, 19 May 2016 12:00:20 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

As a kid, I used to play the "5 second game" (flash-to-sound) during
Tstorms. One evening, the house "shook" as I saw the flash. I.e.,
too startled to even think of "counting". Of course, had I tried
to count, I wouldn't have made it past "0"! :

We get plenty of thunderstorm practice here in Florida. There is a
thunderstorm just about every day for 6-7 months of the year. We call
that thing "Flash/bang" lightning when they both occur at the same
time.
Usually when a tree is hit, you will see little sticks everywhere,
burning on both ends.

On 5/19/2016 2:19 PM, philo wrote:
On 05/19/2016 07:55 AM, wrote:
philo: "MOV"?



http://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why-...rge-protector/


Few years ago I had several surge protectors get fried by a voltage
surge when a tree fell dropping the high tension wire on the low one.
Only item I lost was a microwave without a surge protector. Many years
ago we had lost a couple of unprotected TV sets now all electron stuff
in my house is protected. Also have usb's on all computers.

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 2:40:47 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
On 5/19/2016 2:19 PM, philo wrote:
On 05/19/2016 07:55 AM, wrote:
philo: "MOV"?



http://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why-...rge-protector/


Few years ago I had several surge protectors get fried by a voltage
surge when a tree fell dropping the high tension wire on the low one.
Only item I lost was a microwave without a surge protector. Many years
ago we had lost a couple of unprotected TV sets now all electron stuff
in my house is protected. Also have usb's on all computers.

All my computers except for the very old ones have USB ports. At home, my computer and network equipment is plugged into UPS's. Don't worry, everyone suffers from lysdexia every now and then. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Lysdexic Monster

On 5/19/2016 3:58 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 2:40:47 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
On 5/19/2016 2:19 PM, philo wrote:
On 05/19/2016 07:55 AM, wrote:
philo: "MOV"?



http://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why-...rge-protector/


Few years ago I had several surge protectors get fried by a voltage
surge when a tree fell dropping the high tension wire on the low one.
Only item I lost was a microwave without a surge protector. Many years
ago we had lost a couple of unprotected TV sets now all electron stuff
in my house is protected. Also have usb's on all computers.

All my computers except for the very old ones have USB ports. At home, my computer and network equipment is plugged into UPS's. Don't worry, everyone suffers from lysdexia every now and then. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Lysdexic Monster

You right.
Old Frank

On Thu, 19 May 2016 12:00:20 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/19/2016 11:54 AM, philo wrote:
Many years the utility pole directly behind my house got a direct lightning
hit. I was in the kitchen and almost lost it when I observed the simultaneous
lightning and thunder!

As a kid, I used to play the "5 second game" (flash-to-sound) during
Tstorms. One evening, the house "shook" as I saw the flash. I.e.,
too startled to even think of "counting". Of course, had I tried
to count, I wouldn't have made it past "0"! :

Next morning, noticed lots of bark on the ground beneath one of the
walnut trees adjacent to the living room. "That's odd". Looked up
to see the bark peeled off one side of the tree all the way to the
top!
"Ah! That must have been what shook the house!"

My answering machine was on the closest run to the outdoor wiring and was taken
out...but nothing else in the house was damaged.

We had a "nearby" strike when living in Denver (no idea how close it was as
I was at work at the time). It took out the protection network in one of
our (cheap) "electronic" telephones -- resulting in a perpetual off-hook
indication (annoying cuz every time I tried to call home, the line was
"busy"!). Also magnetized the screen in our TV. Took many weeks of
the built-in degausser operating to restore color purity!
The house on the farm where my mother grew up had no electricity and
was dwarfed by a HUGE Oak tree, about 3 times as tall as the house and
some 18 feet in circumference at chest height. They had both a well
and a cistern on the "back porch" - opposite side of the house from
the oak, and a big bank barn on the other side of the tree - house and
barn both festooned with lightning rods. All rhis perched on the top
of a hill, no-less.
Several times the cystern pump or well pump were struck, and on at
least one occaision the ligtning jumped from the pump, through the
back door,to the aluminum edging on the kitchen counter, to the wood
cookstove, to the water pump on the kitchen sink - on one occaision
going through an enamelled steel dipper and blowing off the enamel on
the earth side about the size of a silver dollar. The oak was struck
numerous times, and fire-balls flying around the yard during a
thunderstorm were not at all uncommon. Who knows how many times either
the house or barn took a direct hit - and never a fire, although it
did blow part of the roof off the barn at least once.


Forward ahead 50 years or so, and friends who also live at the top of
a hill on a farm were having problems keeping electric fence chargers
functioning, because with about 2 miles of fence connected, a
lightning strike anywhere within 3 or 4 miles would induce such a
charge on the fence that it would kill the charger. We ended up
installinf an air-core choke and spark-gap lightning arrester on the
fence and in a storm you could see the spark jump the gap to ground
and the fence-charger l;ived another day.

On Thu, 19 May 2016 15:40:41 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 5/19/2016 2:19 PM, philo wrote:
On 05/19/2016 07:55 AM, wrote:
philo: "MOV"?



http://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why-...rge-protector/


Few years ago I had several surge protectors get fried by a voltage
surge when a tree fell dropping the high tension wire on the low one.
Only item I lost was a microwave without a surge protector. Many years
ago we had lost a couple of unprotected TV sets now all electron stuff
in my house is protected. Also have usb's on all computers.
UPS's??

trader_4 posted for all of us...


Below grade is obviously safer, it can't get a direct hit from lightning
like overhead wired going to a house.


Tell that to my neighbor...

--
Tekkie

On 05/19/2016 02:05 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 13:54:46 -0500, philo wrote:

Many years the utility pole directly behind my house got a direct
lightning hit. I was in the kitchen and almost lost it when I observed
the simultaneous lightning and thunder!



snip


To all:
I was in the Army with a guy who one day in casual conversation
mentioned that he had once been struck indirectly by lightning.
(We sometimes called him "old man Robbie: because he was 24 years old.)


It was not much of a story and I don't think he told it to anyone else.


Then, a few months later word spread through the barracks that Robbie
had been hit (indirectly) by lightning while he was on guard duty.


When I got the word, everyone in my unit freaked out when all I said was:


Again?



Then they learned about his previous encounter.


Any, once they replaced his eardrum he was OK

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 2:19:46 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 05/19/2016 07:55 AM, wrote:
philo: "MOV"?



http://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why-...rge-protector/

Oh boy, W Tom will have a field day with that one and rightly so.

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 4:28:49 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote:
trader_4 posted for all of us...


Below grade is obviously safer, it can't get a direct hit from lightning
like overhead wired going to a house.


Tell that to my neighbor...

--
Tekkie

Tell us more. Where and how did this direct hit to an underground
service take place?

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 3:24:09 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 12:00:20 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 5/19/2016 11:54 AM, philo wrote:
Many years the utility pole directly behind my house got a direct lightning
hit. I was in the kitchen and almost lost it when I observed the simultaneous
lightning and thunder!

As a kid, I used to play the "5 second game" (flash-to-sound) during
Tstorms. One evening, the house "shook" as I saw the flash. I.e.,
too startled to even think of "counting". Of course, had I tried
to count, I wouldn't have made it past "0"! :

Next morning, noticed lots of bark on the ground beneath one of the
walnut trees adjacent to the living room. "That's odd". Looked up
to see the bark peeled off one side of the tree all the way to the
top!
"Ah! That must have been what shook the house!"

My answering machine was on the closest run to the outdoor wiring and was taken
out...but nothing else in the house was damaged.

We had a "nearby" strike when living in Denver (no idea how close it was as
I was at work at the time). It took out the protection network in one of
our (cheap) "electronic" telephones -- resulting in a perpetual off-hook
indication (annoying cuz every time I tried to call home, the line was
"busy"!). Also magnetized the screen in our TV. Took many weeks of
the built-in degausser operating to restore color purity!
The house on the farm where my mother grew up had no electricity and
was dwarfed by a HUGE Oak tree, about 3 times as tall as the house and
some 18 feet in circumference at chest height. They had both a well
and a cistern on the "back porch" - opposite side of the house from
the oak, and a big bank barn on the other side of the tree - house and
barn both festooned with lightning rods. All rhis perched on the top
of a hill, no-less.
Several times the cystern pump or well pump were struck, and on at
least one occaision the ligtning jumped from the pump, through the
back door,to the aluminum edging on the kitchen counter, to the wood
cookstove, to the water pump on the kitchen sink - on one occaision
going through an enamelled steel dipper and blowing off the enamel on
the earth side about the size of a silver dollar. The oak was struck
numerous times, and fire-balls flying around the yard during a
thunderstorm were not at all uncommon. Who knows how many times either
the house or barn took a direct hit - and never a fire, although it
did blow part of the roof off the barn at least once.


Forward ahead 50 years or so, and friends who also live at the top of
a hill on a farm were having problems keeping electric fence chargers
functioning, because with about 2 miles of fence connected, a
lightning strike anywhere within 3 or 4 miles would induce such a
charge on the fence that it would kill the charger. We ended up
installinf an air-core choke and spark-gap lightning arrester on the
fence and in a storm you could see the spark jump the gap to ground
and the fence-charger l;ived another day.

When I was a kid growing up on the family farm on the mountaintop in Northeast Alabamastan, lightning was a constant menace. I remember being in the basement of the house when I would hear an arc jump from the metal heating duct that ran the length of the house to one of the 6" steel poles supporting the center beams that ran down the center of the house. I could often count more than 10 seconds before I heard thunder. The house is 100 yards from the tallest point in the area so we were up there in the clouds. Baby brother who is 50 years old lives there now with all the critters in the woods. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Thundering Monster

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 4:07:21 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 2:19:46 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 05/19/2016 07:55 AM, wrote:
philo: "MOV"?

http://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why-...rge-protector/

Oh boy, W Tom will have a field day with that one and rightly so.

It's hard to get most people to understand that surge arresters actually wear out. I've taken apart favorite surge strips and replaced the MOV's inside with better ones. I have some strips that fit a certain way in a space and a newer one may not fit. I write the date of repair on the back with a Sharpie. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Surge Monster

On 5/19/2016 3:40 PM, Frank wrote:
Also have usb's on all computers.

Some have DisplayPort, some have hdmi and all of mine have USB.

On 5/19/2016 6:50 PM, Will wrote:
On 5/19/2016 3:40 PM, Frank wrote:
Also have usb's on all computers.

Some have DisplayPort, some have hdmi and all of mine have USB.


Top or front loading? And do you use surge
supressors?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 5/19/2016 5:10 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 4:28:49 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote:
trader_4 posted for all of us...


Below grade is obviously safer, it can't get a direct hit from lightning
like overhead wired going to a house.

Tell that to my neighbor...

--
Tekkie
Tell us more. Where and how did this direct hit to an underground
service take place?


http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/03/...ine-in-oswego/

On Thu, 19 May 2016 14:10:16 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 4:28:49 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote:
trader_4 posted for all of us...


Below grade is obviously safer, it can't get a direct hit from lightning
like overhead wired going to a house.


Tell that to my neighbor...

--
Tekkie

Tell us more. Where and how did this direct hit to an underground
service take place?

The lightning lab at UCF in conjunction with Florida Power and Light
have done a lot testing with lightning and they have some great
Fulgurites that showed lightning penetrating 2 meters or more
underground. Safer underground? certainly but if it is a wide open
spot with nothing but sand for it to hit, that cable down there 4 or 5
feet may be pretty attractive to a bolt.

BTW in my inspecting career, the most robust lightning protection I
have ever seen in a building is for a toll booth at MM99 on I-75. It
is the only decent target for miles around, The array was more than
they put in the ground for the radio towers that are along the
highway.

On Thu, 19 May 2016 08:10:46 -0700 (PDT), westom
wrote:

On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 10:56:06 PM UTC-4, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash
computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a
surge suppressor.

If a washer needs protection, then so does every household item including clocks, RCD, furnace, recharging phones, and the most critical item during a surge - smoke detectors. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to protect from destructive surges. Protection means a surge is connected to earth BEFORE it enters a building. No way around that well proven science.

Does not matter if AC service is overhead or underground. Risk from surges (lightning and other sources) remains.

Do you disagree that the risk with underground is lower?

If yes, then why do you say it doesn't matter which it is? This kind
of clever phrasing is what politicians use to make a point that sounds
stronger than it should. But I see it a lot from regular folk.

Here the statement should have skipped half of the first sentence and
been "Risk from surges () remains whether the AC service is overhead
or underground." That's all you are saying, but for some reason** you
want to say O vs. U doesn't matter, even though, if the risk is lower,
of course it matters.

**It may just be a habit people pick up from listening to others who
speak in the same way. But IMVSO it's a bad habit.

Even underground wires can carry a direct lightning strike into a building. Every wire in every incoming cable must connect to single point earth ground BEFORE entering. Otherwise a surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Earth ground (not a protector) is the most critical component in every protection 'system'.

What does an adjacent protector do? MOVs might connect that surge from hot wire to neutral or safety ground wires. Now that surge has even more paths to find earth ground destructively via a washer or other nearby appliance. Adjacent protectors can even make damage easier if a 'whole house' solution is not implemented.

All appliances contain robust protection.

Now I"m just quibbing but you must mean major appliances. I've taken
toasters, table radios, etc. apart and there was no surge protection.

Your concern is a rare transient that might occur once every seven years. That transient must be connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth BEFORE entering. Otherwise it will go hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to 'block' or 'absorb' that transient. If anything needs that protection, then everything needs that protection.

On Fri, 20 May 2016 01:57:13 -0400, Micky
wrote:

Now I"m just quibbing but you must mean major appliances. I've taken
toasters, table radios, etc. apart and there was no surge protection.

Most of these things are fairly immune to transients. A toaster will
just get momentarily and imperceptibly hotter for a few microseconds.
This stuff really did not become a huge issue until we started using
CMOS and that is everywhere now.
Microwaves and washing machines would still be fine if they did not
have that little circuit board. Usually the bad part is the clock.
We had a real nice "lightning damaged" microwave in our shop. I
drilled a hole through that touch panel and put in a spring wound
timer. It worked great.