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Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash
computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea or a not so good idea. Steve |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Wed, 18 May 2016 22:56:01 -0400, Steve Stone
wrote: A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea or a not so good idea. Steve I power my whole house through a surge protector |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On 5/18/2016 7:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea or a not so good idea. That depends on what you think you'll be protecting against, whether your utilities are overhead or below grade, where the nearest step-down Xformer is for your little feed (usually, ~4 homes in a cluster). It also depends on the quality of surge protector you install. Many are just "surge protectors" in name, only. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
|
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On 05/18/2016 08:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea or a not so good idea. Steve Anything you do to minimize voltage spikes on your power line is a good thing...just keep in mind that the typical surge suppression device needs a good path to ground to function properly. FWIW, most homes don't have a good ground system. You'll typically find the outdoor connection from the #6 ground wire to the ground rod is loose and/or corroded. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On 05/19/2016 03:24 AM, Roscoe wrote:
On 05/18/2016 08:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote: A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea or a not so good idea. Steve Anything you do to minimize voltage spikes on your power line is a good thing...just keep in mind that the typical surge suppression device needs a good path to ground to function properly. FWIW, most homes don't have a good ground system. You'll typically find the outdoor connection from the #6 ground wire to the ground rod is loose and/or corroded. Not really. A surge suppressor is simply an MOV which will shunt voltage spikes. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Wed, 18 May 2016 20:33:10 -0700, Don Y
wrote: On 5/18/2016 7:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote: A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea or a not so good idea. That depends on what you think you'll be protecting against, whether your utilities are overhead or below grade, So is one of these safer than the other? where the nearest step-down Xformer is for your little feed (usually, ~4 homes in a cluster). In my case, I'm the 8th townhouse from the xformer. 7 x 22 feet is 154 feet. Does this mean the first house is the most vulnerable and it gets less as the distance increases? It also depends on the quality of surge protector you install. Many are just "surge protectors" in name, only. SPINOs? |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
philo: "MOV"?
|
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 8:55:38 AM UTC-4, wrote:
philo: "MOV"? Metal Oxide Varistor Which doesn't diminish what it's purpose is and it's effectiveness. But a new washing machine isn't the only electronics in the house. Like Gfre says, best strategy is a whole house surge protector at the panel or meter, with point-of-use type at eqpt that is also connected to other lines, eg cable, phone, etc. If you're in a situation where you can't put one on the panel, then point-of-use at the washer can offer protection, but it's not the preferred solution. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 11:33:13 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 5/18/2016 7:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote: A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea or a not so good idea. That depends on what you think you'll be protecting against, whether your utilities are overhead or below grade, where the nearest step-down Xformer is for your little feed (usually, ~4 homes in a cluster). It also depends on the quality of surge protector you install. Many are just "surge protectors" in name, only. And why did you start a whole new thread? |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 8:15:23 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2016 20:33:10 -0700, Don Y wrote: On 5/18/2016 7:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote: A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea or a not so good idea. That depends on what you think you'll be protecting against, whether your utilities are overhead or below grade, So is one of these safer than the other? Below grade is obviously safer, it can't get a direct hit from lightning like overhead wired going to a house. where the nearest step-down Xformer is for your little feed (usually, ~4 homes in a cluster). In my case, I'm the 8th townhouse from the xformer. 7 x 22 feet is 154 feet. Does this mean the first house is the most vulnerable and it gets less as the distance increases? I wouldn't worry about it. I doubt it makes much, if any difference and I'm sure you won't see any data one way or the other. I've never seen any surge protection experts have it enter into the discussion for how you protect your home. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 5:03:02 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 05/19/2016 03:24 AM, Roscoe wrote: On 05/18/2016 08:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote: A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea or a not so good idea. Steve Anything you do to minimize voltage spikes on your power line is a good thing...just keep in mind that the typical surge suppression device needs a good path to ground to function properly. FWIW, most homes don't have a good ground system. You'll typically find the outdoor connection from the #6 ground wire to the ground rod is loose and/or corroded. Not really. A surge suppressor is simply an MOV which will shunt voltage spikes. The better ones have LC networks in them in addition to the MOV's. I like to cascade protection especially on signal lines where the first line of defense would be gas tube arrestors. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Shocking Monster |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 10:56:06 PM UTC-4, Steve Stone wrote:
A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. If a washer needs protection, then so does every household item including clocks, RCD, furnace, recharging phones, and the most critical item during a surge - smoke detectors. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to protect from destructive surges. Protection means a surge is connected to earth BEFORE it enters a building. No way around that well proven science. Does not matter if AC service is overhead or underground. Risk from surges (lightning and other sources) remains. Even underground wires can carry a direct lightning strike into a building. Every wire in every incoming cable must connect to single point earth ground BEFORE entering. Otherwise a surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Earth ground (not a protector) is the most critical component in every protection 'system'. What does an adjacent protector do? MOVs might connect that surge from hot wire to neutral or safety ground wires. Now that surge has even more paths to find earth ground destructively via a washer or other nearby appliance.. Adjacent protectors can even make damage easier if a 'whole house' solution is not implemented. All appliances contain robust protection. Your concern is a rare transient that might occur once every seven years. That transient must be connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth BEFORE entering. Otherwise it will go hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to 'block' or 'absorb' that transient. If anything needs that protection, then everything needs that protection. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 11:10:53 AM UTC-4, westom wrote:
On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 10:56:06 PM UTC-4, Steve Stone wrote: A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. If a washer needs protection, then so does every household item including clocks, RCD, furnace, recharging phones, and the most critical item during a surge - smoke detectors. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to protect from destructive surges. Protection means a surge is connected to earth BEFORE it enters a building. No way around that well proven science. Does not matter if AC service is overhead or underground. Risk from surges (lightning and other sources) remains. Sure it remains. But it does matter. With an underground service, the lines leading from the street to the house, the masthead, etc are not present and can't be hit by a direct lightning strike. Less target is better than more target. Even underground wires can carry a direct lightning strike into a building. Every wire in every incoming cable must connect to single point earth ground BEFORE entering. Otherwise a surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Earth ground (not a protector) is the most critical component in every protection 'system'. What does an adjacent protector do? MOVs might connect that surge from hot wire to neutral or safety ground wires. Now that surge has even more paths to find earth ground destructively via a washer or other nearby appliance. Adjacent protectors can even make damage easier if a 'whole house' solution is not implemented. You can listen to Tom or you can read what the electrical engineers that specialize in surge protection say at IEEE and NIST. Both groups say that point-of-use surge protectors do work, endorse them as part of a tiered approach and standalone too. http://www.nist.gov/pml/div684/upload/Surges_happen.pdf http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/IEEE_Guide.pdf All appliances contain robust protection. Not as robust as the protection in a quality plug-in surge protector. Your concern is a rare transient that might occur once every seven years. That transient must be connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth BEFORE entering. Otherwise it will go hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to 'block' or 'absorb' that transient. If anything needs that protection, then everything needs that protection. Plug-ins/point-of-use work by clamping all the inputs to the same level. I'm sure the usual W Tom rant will be forthcoming. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Wed, 18 May 2016 20:33:10 -0700, Don Y
wrote: On 5/18/2016 7:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote: A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea or a not so good idea. That depends on what you think you'll be protecting against, whether your utilities are overhead or below grade, where the nearest step-down Xformer is for your little feed (usually, ~4 homes in a cluster). It also depends on the quality of surge protector you install. Many are just "surge protectors" in name, only. Square D panel mounted durge protector on underground service 120 feet from the transformer. OK - so I KNOW it's overkill -and my computers are protected on dual conversion UPS units too. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thu, 19 May 2016 05:03:00 -0500, philo wrote:
On 05/19/2016 03:24 AM, Roscoe wrote: On 05/18/2016 08:56 PM, Steve Stone wrote: A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. Was wondering if the learned members of this group thought this was a good idea or a not so good idea. Steve Anything you do to minimize voltage spikes on your power line is a good thing...just keep in mind that the typical surge suppression device needs a good path to ground to function properly. FWIW, most homes don't have a good ground system. You'll typically find the outdoor connection from the #6 ground wire to the ground rod is loose and/or corroded. Not really. A surge suppressor is simply an MOV which will shunt voltage spikes. There is all kinds of "surge protection" including line to neutral and line to ground shunting, as well as reactive chokes |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thu, 19 May 2016 08:10:46 -0700 (PDT), westom
wrote: On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 10:56:06 PM UTC-4, Steve Stone wrote: A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. If a washer needs protection, then so does every household item including clocks, RCD, furnace, recharging phones, and the most critical item during a surge - smoke detectors. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to protect from destructive surges. Protection means a surge is connected to earth BEFORE it enters a building. No way around that well proven science. Pre-entry is definitely best (whole house mprotection) My smoke detectors are all battery operated - so no problem there. People tend to protect the more expensive and critical cevices. Does not matter if AC service is overhead or underground. Risk from surges (lightning and other sources) remains. Even underground wires can carry a direct lightning strike into a building. Every wire in every incoming cable must connect to single point earth ground BEFORE entering. Otherwise a surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Earth ground (not a protector) is the most critical component in every protection 'system'. The chance of a "direct hit" on an underground service is a LOT less than an overhead, and unserground does not act as much as an antenna for a "near strike" What does an adjacent protector do? MOVs might connect that surge from hot wire to neutral or safety ground wires. Now that surge has even more paths to find earth ground destructively via a washer or other nearby appliance. Adjacent protectors can even make damage easier if a 'whole house' solution is not implemented. POU protectors protect against highn transients that either get through or are caused inside the house All appliances contain robust protection. Your concern is a rare transient that might occur once every seven years. That transient must be connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth BEFORE entering. Otherwise it will go hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to 'block' or 'absorb' that transient. If anything needs that protection, then everything needs that protection. Your assumption that all appliances contain robust protection is open to discussion. and dissagreement. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
|
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thu, 19 May 2016 08:25:40 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote: On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 11:10:53 AM UTC-4, westom wrote: On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 10:56:06 PM UTC-4, Steve Stone wrote: A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. If a washer needs protection, then so does every household item including clocks, RCD, furnace, recharging phones, and the most critical item during a surge - smoke detectors. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to protect from destructive surges. Protection means a surge is connected to earth BEFORE it enters a building. No way around that well proven science. Does not matter if AC service is overhead or underground. Risk from surges (lightning and other sources) remains. Sure it remains. But it does matter. With an underground service, the lines leading from the street to the house, the masthead, etc are not present and can't be hit by a direct lightning strike. Less target is better than more target. Even underground wires can carry a direct lightning strike into a building. Every wire in every incoming cable must connect to single point earth ground BEFORE entering. Otherwise a surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Earth ground (not a protector) is the most critical component in every protection 'system'. What does an adjacent protector do? MOVs might connect that surge from hot wire to neutral or safety ground wires. Now that surge has even more paths to find earth ground destructively via a washer or other nearby appliance. Adjacent protectors can even make damage easier if a 'whole house' solution is not implemented. You can listen to Tom or you can read what the electrical engineers that specialize in surge protection say at IEEE and NIST. Both groups say that point-of-use surge protectors do work, endorse them as part of a tiered approach and standalone too. http://www.nist.gov/pml/div684/upload/Surges_happen.pdf http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/IEEE_Guide.pdf All appliances contain robust protection. Not as robust as the protection in a quality plug-in surge protector. Your concern is a rare transient that might occur once every seven years. That transient must be connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth BEFORE entering. Otherwise it will go hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to 'block' or 'absorb' that transient. If anything needs that protection, then everything needs that protection. Plug-ins/point-of-use work by clamping all the inputs to the same level. I'm sure the usual W Tom rant will be forthcoming. Tom sells whole house protection and you definitely need it, connected to a good grounding electrode. The only thing Tom disagrees about is whether a point of use protector does anything. I do believe it will damp out locally induced shots that get into the system after it enters the house. That would typically be an EMP that comes from lightning hitting a tree in the back yard. I have survived direct hits on a weather station on my garage ... twice ... but I have pretty good protection in several layers including on the signal line from the weather station.. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
|
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On 5/19/2016 11:54 AM, philo wrote:
Many years the utility pole directly behind my house got a direct lightning hit. I was in the kitchen and almost lost it when I observed the simultaneous lightning and thunder! As a kid, I used to play the "5 second game" (flash-to-sound) during Tstorms. One evening, the house "shook" as I saw the flash. I.e., too startled to even think of "counting". Of course, had I tried to count, I wouldn't have made it past "0"! : Next morning, noticed lots of bark on the ground beneath one of the walnut trees adjacent to the living room. "That's odd". Looked up to see the bark peeled off one side of the tree all the way to the top! "Ah! That must have been what shook the house!" My answering machine was on the closest run to the outdoor wiring and was taken out...but nothing else in the house was damaged. We had a "nearby" strike when living in Denver (no idea how close it was as I was at work at the time). It took out the protection network in one of our (cheap) "electronic" telephones -- resulting in a perpetual off-hook indication (annoying cuz every time I tried to call home, the line was "busy"!). Also magnetized the screen in our TV. Took many weeks of the built-in degausser operating to restore color purity! |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thu, 19 May 2016 13:54:46 -0500, philo wrote:
Many years the utility pole directly behind my house got a direct lightning hit. I was in the kitchen and almost lost it when I observed the simultaneous lightning and thunder! My answering machine was on the closest run to the outdoor wiring and was taken out...but nothing else in the house was damaged. I was in my driveway with a Mexican concrete guy when my garage mounted weather station was hit *the second time). Very exciting stuff. The shock wave felt like getting hit in the face with a wet towel. Everything was blue for a second. I am not sure if it was really blue or that was just an electrical shock to the optic nerve. It's a good thing the GDO was still working or my buddy Poncho would have made a roadrunner style hole in the door. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thu, 19 May 2016 12:00:20 -0700, Don Y
wrote: As a kid, I used to play the "5 second game" (flash-to-sound) during Tstorms. One evening, the house "shook" as I saw the flash. I.e., too startled to even think of "counting". Of course, had I tried to count, I wouldn't have made it past "0"! : We get plenty of thunderstorm practice here in Florida. There is a thunderstorm just about every day for 6-7 months of the year. We call that thing "Flash/bang" lightning when they both occur at the same time. Usually when a tree is hit, you will see little sticks everywhere, burning on both ends. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On 5/19/2016 2:19 PM, philo wrote:
On 05/19/2016 07:55 AM, wrote: philo: "MOV"? http://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why-...rge-protector/ Few years ago I had several surge protectors get fried by a voltage surge when a tree fell dropping the high tension wire on the low one. Only item I lost was a microwave without a surge protector. Many years ago we had lost a couple of unprotected TV sets now all electron stuff in my house is protected. Also have usb's on all computers. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 2:40:47 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote:
On 5/19/2016 2:19 PM, philo wrote: On 05/19/2016 07:55 AM, wrote: philo: "MOV"? http://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why-...rge-protector/ Few years ago I had several surge protectors get fried by a voltage surge when a tree fell dropping the high tension wire on the low one. Only item I lost was a microwave without a surge protector. Many years ago we had lost a couple of unprotected TV sets now all electron stuff in my house is protected. Also have usb's on all computers. All my computers except for the very old ones have USB ports. At home, my computer and network equipment is plugged into UPS's. Don't worry, everyone suffers from lysdexia every now and then. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Lysdexic Monster |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On 5/19/2016 3:58 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 2:40:47 PM UTC-5, Frank wrote: On 5/19/2016 2:19 PM, philo wrote: On 05/19/2016 07:55 AM, wrote: philo: "MOV"? http://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why-...rge-protector/ Few years ago I had several surge protectors get fried by a voltage surge when a tree fell dropping the high tension wire on the low one. Only item I lost was a microwave without a surge protector. Many years ago we had lost a couple of unprotected TV sets now all electron stuff in my house is protected. Also have usb's on all computers. All my computers except for the very old ones have USB ports. At home, my computer and network equipment is plugged into UPS's. Don't worry, everyone suffers from lysdexia every now and then. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Lysdexic Monster You right. Old Frank |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thu, 19 May 2016 12:00:20 -0700, Don Y
wrote: On 5/19/2016 11:54 AM, philo wrote: Many years the utility pole directly behind my house got a direct lightning hit. I was in the kitchen and almost lost it when I observed the simultaneous lightning and thunder! As a kid, I used to play the "5 second game" (flash-to-sound) during Tstorms. One evening, the house "shook" as I saw the flash. I.e., too startled to even think of "counting". Of course, had I tried to count, I wouldn't have made it past "0"! : Next morning, noticed lots of bark on the ground beneath one of the walnut trees adjacent to the living room. "That's odd". Looked up to see the bark peeled off one side of the tree all the way to the top! "Ah! That must have been what shook the house!" My answering machine was on the closest run to the outdoor wiring and was taken out...but nothing else in the house was damaged. We had a "nearby" strike when living in Denver (no idea how close it was as I was at work at the time). It took out the protection network in one of our (cheap) "electronic" telephones -- resulting in a perpetual off-hook indication (annoying cuz every time I tried to call home, the line was "busy"!). Also magnetized the screen in our TV. Took many weeks of the built-in degausser operating to restore color purity! The house on the farm where my mother grew up had no electricity and was dwarfed by a HUGE Oak tree, about 3 times as tall as the house and some 18 feet in circumference at chest height. They had both a well and a cistern on the "back porch" - opposite side of the house from the oak, and a big bank barn on the other side of the tree - house and barn both festooned with lightning rods. All rhis perched on the top of a hill, no-less. Several times the cystern pump or well pump were struck, and on at least one occaision the ligtning jumped from the pump, through the back door,to the aluminum edging on the kitchen counter, to the wood cookstove, to the water pump on the kitchen sink - on one occaision going through an enamelled steel dipper and blowing off the enamel on the earth side about the size of a silver dollar. The oak was struck numerous times, and fire-balls flying around the yard during a thunderstorm were not at all uncommon. Who knows how many times either the house or barn took a direct hit - and never a fire, although it did blow part of the roof off the barn at least once. Forward ahead 50 years or so, and friends who also live at the top of a hill on a farm were having problems keeping electric fence chargers functioning, because with about 2 miles of fence connected, a lightning strike anywhere within 3 or 4 miles would induce such a charge on the fence that it would kill the charger. We ended up installinf an air-core choke and spark-gap lightning arrester on the fence and in a storm you could see the spark jump the gap to ground and the fence-charger l;ived another day. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thu, 19 May 2016 15:40:41 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:
On 5/19/2016 2:19 PM, philo wrote: On 05/19/2016 07:55 AM, wrote: philo: "MOV"? http://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why-...rge-protector/ Few years ago I had several surge protectors get fried by a voltage surge when a tree fell dropping the high tension wire on the low one. Only item I lost was a microwave without a surge protector. Many years ago we had lost a couple of unprotected TV sets now all electron stuff in my house is protected. Also have usb's on all computers. UPS's?? |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
trader_4 posted for all of us...
Below grade is obviously safer, it can't get a direct hit from lightning like overhead wired going to a house. Tell that to my neighbor... -- Tekkie |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
|
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 2:19:46 PM UTC-4, philo wrote:
On 05/19/2016 07:55 AM, wrote: philo: "MOV"? http://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why-...rge-protector/ Oh boy, W Tom will have a field day with that one and rightly so. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 4:28:49 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote:
trader_4 posted for all of us... Below grade is obviously safer, it can't get a direct hit from lightning like overhead wired going to a house. Tell that to my neighbor... -- Tekkie Tell us more. Where and how did this direct hit to an underground service take place? |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 3:24:09 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 19 May 2016 12:00:20 -0700, Don Y wrote: On 5/19/2016 11:54 AM, philo wrote: Many years the utility pole directly behind my house got a direct lightning hit. I was in the kitchen and almost lost it when I observed the simultaneous lightning and thunder! As a kid, I used to play the "5 second game" (flash-to-sound) during Tstorms. One evening, the house "shook" as I saw the flash. I.e., too startled to even think of "counting". Of course, had I tried to count, I wouldn't have made it past "0"! : Next morning, noticed lots of bark on the ground beneath one of the walnut trees adjacent to the living room. "That's odd". Looked up to see the bark peeled off one side of the tree all the way to the top! "Ah! That must have been what shook the house!" My answering machine was on the closest run to the outdoor wiring and was taken out...but nothing else in the house was damaged. We had a "nearby" strike when living in Denver (no idea how close it was as I was at work at the time). It took out the protection network in one of our (cheap) "electronic" telephones -- resulting in a perpetual off-hook indication (annoying cuz every time I tried to call home, the line was "busy"!). Also magnetized the screen in our TV. Took many weeks of the built-in degausser operating to restore color purity! The house on the farm where my mother grew up had no electricity and was dwarfed by a HUGE Oak tree, about 3 times as tall as the house and some 18 feet in circumference at chest height. They had both a well and a cistern on the "back porch" - opposite side of the house from the oak, and a big bank barn on the other side of the tree - house and barn both festooned with lightning rods. All rhis perched on the top of a hill, no-less. Several times the cystern pump or well pump were struck, and on at least one occaision the ligtning jumped from the pump, through the back door,to the aluminum edging on the kitchen counter, to the wood cookstove, to the water pump on the kitchen sink - on one occaision going through an enamelled steel dipper and blowing off the enamel on the earth side about the size of a silver dollar. The oak was struck numerous times, and fire-balls flying around the yard during a thunderstorm were not at all uncommon. Who knows how many times either the house or barn took a direct hit - and never a fire, although it did blow part of the roof off the barn at least once. Forward ahead 50 years or so, and friends who also live at the top of a hill on a farm were having problems keeping electric fence chargers functioning, because with about 2 miles of fence connected, a lightning strike anywhere within 3 or 4 miles would induce such a charge on the fence that it would kill the charger. We ended up installinf an air-core choke and spark-gap lightning arrester on the fence and in a storm you could see the spark jump the gap to ground and the fence-charger l;ived another day. When I was a kid growing up on the family farm on the mountaintop in Northeast Alabamastan, lightning was a constant menace. I remember being in the basement of the house when I would hear an arc jump from the metal heating duct that ran the length of the house to one of the 6" steel poles supporting the center beams that ran down the center of the house. I could often count more than 10 seconds before I heard thunder. The house is 100 yards from the tallest point in the area so we were up there in the clouds. Baby brother who is 50 years old lives there now with all the critters in the woods. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Thundering Monster |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 4:07:21 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 2:19:46 PM UTC-4, philo wrote: On 05/19/2016 07:55 AM, wrote: philo: "MOV"? http://www.howtogeek.com/212375/why-...rge-protector/ Oh boy, W Tom will have a field day with that one and rightly so. It's hard to get most people to understand that surge arresters actually wear out. I've taken apart favorite surge strips and replaced the MOV's inside with better ones. I have some strips that fit a certain way in a space and a newer one may not fit. I write the date of repair on the back with a Sharpie. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Surge Monster |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On 5/19/2016 3:40 PM, Frank wrote:
Also have usb's on all computers. Some have DisplayPort, some have hdmi and all of mine have USB. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On 5/19/2016 6:50 PM, Will wrote:
On 5/19/2016 3:40 PM, Frank wrote: Also have usb's on all computers. Some have DisplayPort, some have hdmi and all of mine have USB. Top or front loading? And do you use surge supressors? -- .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On 5/19/2016 5:10 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 4:28:49 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote: trader_4 posted for all of us... Below grade is obviously safer, it can't get a direct hit from lightning like overhead wired going to a house. Tell that to my neighbor... -- Tekkie Tell us more. Where and how did this direct hit to an underground service take place? http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/03/...ine-in-oswego/ |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thu, 19 May 2016 14:10:16 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote: On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 4:28:49 PM UTC-4, Tekkie® wrote: trader_4 posted for all of us... Below grade is obviously safer, it can't get a direct hit from lightning like overhead wired going to a house. Tell that to my neighbor... -- Tekkie Tell us more. Where and how did this direct hit to an underground service take place? The lightning lab at UCF in conjunction with Florida Power and Light have done a lot testing with lightning and they have some great Fulgurites that showed lightning penetrating 2 meters or more underground. Safer underground? certainly but if it is a wide open spot with nothing but sand for it to hit, that cable down there 4 or 5 feet may be pretty attractive to a bolt. BTW in my inspecting career, the most robust lightning protection I have ever seen in a building is for a toll booth at MM99 on I-75. It is the only decent target for miles around, The array was more than they put in the ground for the radio towers that are along the highway. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Thu, 19 May 2016 08:10:46 -0700 (PDT), westom
wrote: On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 10:56:06 PM UTC-4, Steve Stone wrote: A friend with a new state of the art super high tech electronic dash computer controlled washer claims it is best to power the beast thru a surge suppressor. If a washer needs protection, then so does every household item including clocks, RCD, furnace, recharging phones, and the most critical item during a surge - smoke detectors. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to protect from destructive surges. Protection means a surge is connected to earth BEFORE it enters a building. No way around that well proven science. Does not matter if AC service is overhead or underground. Risk from surges (lightning and other sources) remains. Do you disagree that the risk with underground is lower? If yes, then why do you say it doesn't matter which it is? This kind of clever phrasing is what politicians use to make a point that sounds stronger than it should. But I see it a lot from regular folk. Here the statement should have skipped half of the first sentence and been "Risk from surges () remains whether the AC service is overhead or underground." That's all you are saying, but for some reason** you want to say O vs. U doesn't matter, even though, if the risk is lower, of course it matters. **It may just be a habit people pick up from listening to others who speak in the same way. But IMVSO it's a bad habit. Even underground wires can carry a direct lightning strike into a building. Every wire in every incoming cable must connect to single point earth ground BEFORE entering. Otherwise a surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Earth ground (not a protector) is the most critical component in every protection 'system'. What does an adjacent protector do? MOVs might connect that surge from hot wire to neutral or safety ground wires. Now that surge has even more paths to find earth ground destructively via a washer or other nearby appliance. Adjacent protectors can even make damage easier if a 'whole house' solution is not implemented. All appliances contain robust protection. Now I"m just quibbing but you must mean major appliances. I've taken toasters, table radios, etc. apart and there was no surge protection. Your concern is a rare transient that might occur once every seven years. That transient must be connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth BEFORE entering. Otherwise it will go hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Nothing adjacent to an appliance claims to 'block' or 'absorb' that transient. If anything needs that protection, then everything needs that protection. |
Anyone using a surge suppressor on their washing machines?
On Fri, 20 May 2016 01:57:13 -0400, Micky
wrote: Now I"m just quibbing but you must mean major appliances. I've taken toasters, table radios, etc. apart and there was no surge protection. Most of these things are fairly immune to transients. A toaster will just get momentarily and imperceptibly hotter for a few microseconds. This stuff really did not become a huge issue until we started using CMOS and that is everywhere now. Microwaves and washing machines would still be fine if they did not have that little circuit board. Usually the bad part is the clock. We had a real nice "lightning damaged" microwave in our shop. I drilled a hole through that touch panel and put in a spring wound timer. It worked great. |
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