Since the DNC lists became moot a couple of years ago, our junk calls
have increased dramatically - and, so far, I've been too cheap to spring
for CallerID and Simultaneous Ring in order to use NoMoRobo...

Last week, I did a count of one day's calls and wound up with five junk
calls to one legitimate call.

Is anybody keeping track ?

If so, what's your ratio ?
--
Pete Cresswell

On 11/30/2015 1:04 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Since the DNC lists became moot a couple of years ago, our junk calls
have increased dramatically - and, so far, I've been too cheap to spring
for CallerID and Simultaneous Ring in order to use NoMoRobo...

Last week, I did a count of one day's calls and wound up with five junk
calls to one legitimate call.

Is anybody keeping track ?

If so, what's your ratio ?

We're currently just letting everything go to an answering machine -- with
the ringer turned off. We *know* we receive calls that "fail to leave
a message" -- cuz we can see the light come on when the machine detects
the incoming ring (if we happen to be looking at it, at the time). We
try to remember to check the machine for messages once every day or two.

But, the only *messages* that we get are from "desired callers".

I.e., it seems like having an answering machine is enough to discourage
the "spam" -- though not enough to prevent the *attempt* (call without
leaving a message).

Earlier, leading up to our local election, we would occasionally get
a "robomessage" on the machine -- from someone who couldn't afford
live volunteers to place the calls (resorting to a machine, instead).

And, many months (year?) ago, there were frequent messages for
"extended automobile warranty" offers -- often one a day!
We also caught a "blind" (machine wasn't smart enough to listen
for an appropriate time when *it* should start it's spiel but,
instead, started babbling as soon as the machine "picked up")
call from the IRS scam a few months back.

Bottom line, if you can live with deferred contacts, the answering machine
approach seems to work very well at filtering out the folks with whom you
don't want to speak (or be disturbed)

On Monday, November 30, 2015 at 2:04:10 PM UTC-6, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Since the DNC lists became moot a couple of years ago, our junk calls
have increased dramatically - and, so far, I've been too cheap to spring
for CallerID and Simultaneous Ring in order to use NoMoRobo...

Last week, I did a count of one day's calls and wound up with five junk
calls to one legitimate call.

Is anybody keeping track ?

If so, what's your ratio ?
--
Pete Cresswell


Before I got the ProCaller Id I was averaging 5-7 calls
per day. The next day it would start all over again with
perhaps a new telemarketing company thrown in the mix.

Yes, I could let these go to the answering machine but
MOST were hang-ups when the machine picked up. I just
got fed up with ring-ring, ring-ring, ring-ring all
day long. I'd stop what I was doing to check the caller
id to only see something like "ABC" or "XYZ" on the
screen or "Unavailable."

Once I had these dumbasses blocked the phone would ring
ONCE as the ProCaller would disconnect them. Wasn't but
a week or so that I was down to one or two calls per day.
When the phone rings once that was my cue it was a
blocked number.

Ahhhhhh, peace and quiet.

On 11/30/2015 3:04 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Since the DNC lists became moot a couple of years ago, our junk calls
have increased dramatically - and, so far, I've been too cheap to spring
for CallerID and Simultaneous Ring in order to use NoMoRobo...

Last week, I did a count of one day's calls and wound up with five junk
calls to one legitimate call.

Is anybody keeping track ?

If so, what's your ratio ?


I'm not keeping track and also have VoIP and land line phones.

My land line is listed under my name with Sr and I'd say over 90% of the
calls are junk. I figure thieves particularly go after seniors.

VoIP phone, with caller ID, I'd say at least 50% junk.

What really ****es me off is that the phone company and government must
know where these calls are coming from but don't do anything about it.

Sure, most are out of the country but they could do something like block
them or send them back a virus to destroy their computers.

I'm sure I will never see and ISIS terrorist but these phone and
internet criminals try to break in my house every day.

On Monday, November 30, 2015 at 4:02:27 PM UTC-5, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:
On Monday, November 30, 2015 at 2:04:10 PM UTC-6, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

Since the DNC lists became moot a couple of years ago, our junk calls
have increased dramatically - and, so far, I've been too cheap to spring
for CallerID and Simultaneous Ring in order to use NoMoRobo...

Last week, I did a count of one day's calls and wound up with five junk
calls to one legitimate call.

Is anybody keeping track ?

If so, what's your ratio ?
--
Pete Cresswell


Before I got the ProCaller Id I was averaging 5-7 calls
per day. The next day it would start all over again with
perhaps a new telemarketing company thrown in the mix.

Yes, I could let these go to the answering machine but
MOST were hang-ups when the machine picked up. I just
got fed up with ring-ring, ring-ring, ring-ring all
day long. I'd stop what I was doing to check the caller
id to only see something like "ABC" or "XYZ" on the
screen or "Unavailable."

Once I had these dumbasses blocked the phone would ring
ONCE as the ProCaller would disconnect them. Wasn't but
a week or so that I was down to one or two calls per day.
When the phone rings once that was my cue it was a
blocked number.

Ahhhhhh, peace and quiet.

I have a new phone number from Ooma as of March. Zero junk
calls. Even with my old Verizon number that I had for
20 years, the junk calls were close to zero.

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 15:04:04 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Since the DNC lists became moot a couple of years ago, our junk calls

What do you mean moot? The list is as good as it ever was.

have increased dramatically - and, so far, I've been too cheap to spring
for CallerID and Simultaneous Ring in order to use NoMoRobo...

I have copper and IIRC nomorobo required FIOS to work, or something
like that. I don't have caller-id either.

Last week, I did a count of one day's calls and wound up with five junk
calls to one legitimate call.

Is anybody keeping track ?

Not in detail.

If so, what's your ratio ?

I get maybe one junk call a day. I always answer the phone if I"m
here, and I hang up when I see it's junk. If they're raising money
for the volunteer fire department, I say Good Luck and Goodbye.

I used to loads of calls from cardholder services, some sort of scam.

I rerecorded my outgoing message so that it plays ooo-eee-ooo before
my message. The web says that spammers are wise to this and ignore
it now , but you remind me that they never call anymore. Maybe it's
just normal rotation and they'll be back.

Per Frank:
VoIP phone, with caller ID, I'd say at least 50% junk.

My outgoing non-local/non-800/non-911 all go out via VOIP but my
incoming is still POTS.

I am tempted to go 100% VOIP in order to implement Challenge/Response,
but am still wary of losing 911 - although I *think* it is still
supposed to be there even with the POTS account closed.


What really ****es me off is that the phone company and government must
know where these calls are coming from but don't do anything about it.

Sure, most are out of the country but they could do something like block
them or send them back a virus to destroy their computers.

Or set up honey traps..... sooner or later, money has to change hands
and once it does...

In the case of my state (Penna) I am guessing they made a decision to
spend the money on more pressing matters.

OTOH, if the whole thing is offshore (including the money recipients) it
would seem like there's nothing to be done.

I am drawn to Challenge/Response because it involves spending less money
on my phone service instead of more.

OTOH, the crowdsourcing solutions like NoMoRobo would seem simpler in
that they get around the need for a WhiteList that seems to me to be
part of a decent Challenge/Response implementation.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:43:53 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Frank:
VoIP phone, with caller ID, I'd say at least 50% junk.

My outgoing non-local/non-800/non-911 all go out via VOIP but my
incoming is still POTS.

I am tempted to go 100% VOIP in order to implement Challenge/Response,
but am still wary of losing 911 - although I *think* it is still
supposed to be there even with the POTS account closed.

There was a long story on the radio recently about how cell phones'
location is not known to the police department. They may or may not
have made reference to VOIP phones. It wa probalby on NPR and
probably on the Diane Rehm show drshow.org in the last week, at
most two. Two topics per day, 5 days a week, so you should be able
to find it. Very user-friendly webpage, that plays well.



What really ****es me off is that the phone company and government must
know where these calls are coming from but don't do anything about it.

Sure, most are out of the country but they could do something like block
them or send them back a virus to destroy their computers.

Or set up honey traps..... sooner or later, money has to change hands
and once it does...

In the case of my state (Penna) I am guessing they made a decision to
spend the money on more pressing matters.

OTOH, if the whole thing is offshore (including the money recipients) it
would seem like there's nothing to be done.

I am drawn to Challenge/Response because it involves spending less money
on my phone service instead of more.

OTOH, the crowdsourcing solutions like NoMoRobo would seem simpler in
that they get around the need for a WhiteList that seems to me to be
part of a decent Challenge/Response implementation.

On 11/30/2015 12:04 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Since the DNC lists became moot a couple of years ago, our junk calls
have increased dramatically - and, so far, I've been too cheap to spring
for CallerID and Simultaneous Ring in order to use NoMoRobo...

Last week, I did a count of one day's calls and wound up with five junk
calls to one legitimate call.

Is anybody keeping track ?

If so, what's your ratio ?


On my business line it seems like it is about 5 to 1
junk calls.

On my home line, it is about 40 junk to 1 legitimate.
Endless political calls and the ubiquitous Anthem
calls (I finally got on Anthem's do not call list).

Love caller ID and my answering machine.

On 30 Nov 2015, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote in
alt.home.repair:

Since the DNC lists became moot a couple of years ago, our junk
calls have increased dramatically - and, so far, I've been too
cheap to spring for CallerID and Simultaneous Ring in order to use
NoMoRobo...

Last week, I did a count of one day's calls and wound up with five
junk calls to one legitimate call.

Is anybody keeping track ?

If so, what's your ratio ?

I've been keeping track, logging all junk calls on a spreadsheet for
about 3 years. My goal has been to try to detect patters so I can block
numbers, and I'm curious to know who (that is what type of scammer) is
calling. I haven't totaled things up in the way you're asking, but I
can get as many as 20 - 30 calls per month, though that number can
arbitrarily go down some months. February and August of this year were
unusually high. I don't think there's any connection between the DNC
list and number of junk calls.

Who says the DNC list is "moot"?

Last week, I did a count of one day's calls and wound up with five junk
calls to one legitimate call.
Is anybody keeping track ?
If so, what's your ratio ?



On my business line it seems like it is about 5 to 1 junk calls.
On my home line, it is about 40 junk to 1 legitimate.
Endless political calls and the ubiquitous Anthem
calls (I finally got on Anthem's do not call list).
Love caller ID and my answering machine.


Yikes !
Sorry - but I get ~ 5 or 6 junk phone calls - per month .
I'm always polite to the human callers -
- they are real people - after all - trying to make a living -
usually they are suffering through a low-point in their
employment history -
.. and they don't really need a kick-in-the-teeth -
from a compfy fat-cat arse-whole -
- telling them - how low they are ..
A very nice & kind woman, I once knew - was employed
as a telephone canvasser - I just think of her -
and it's sooo easy to be polite.
Computer-callers are sooo easy to just hang-up-on !
John T.



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

Micky wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:43:53 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per Frank:
VoIP phone, with caller ID, I'd say at least 50% junk.

My outgoing non-local/non-800/non-911 all go out via VOIP but my
incoming is still POTS.

I am tempted to go 100% VOIP in order to implement Challenge/Response,
but am still wary of losing 911 - although I *think* it is still
supposed to be there even with the POTS account closed.

There was a long story on the radio recently about how cell phones'
location is not known to the police department. They may or may not
have made reference to VOIP phones. It wa probalby on NPR and
probably on the Diane Rehm show drshow.org in the last week, at
most two. Two topics per day, 5 days a week, so you should be able
to find it. Very user-friendly webpage, that plays well.



What really ****es me off is that the phone company and government must
know where these calls are coming from but don't do anything about it.

Sure, most are out of the country but they could do something like block
them or send them back a virus to destroy their computers.

Or set up honey traps..... sooner or later, money has to change hands
and once it does...

In the case of my state (Penna) I am guessing they made a decision to
spend the money on more pressing matters.

OTOH, if the whole thing is offshore (including the money recipients) it
would seem like there's nothing to be done.

I am drawn to Challenge/Response because it involves spending less money
on my phone service instead of more.

OTOH, the crowdsourcing solutions like NoMoRobo would seem simpler in
that they get around the need for a WhiteList that seems to me to be
part of a decent Challenge/Response implementation.

On 30 Nov 2015, wrote in alt.home.repair:

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 19:31:34 -0500, Nil
wrote:

Who says the DNC list is "moot"?

Anyone who ever filed a complaint or 50.
Virtually all of my calls are junk.

That doesn't mean much. The DNC is only respected by honest American
business callers. Complaints only affect them, and I believe it has
been effective as far as that goes - I get no telemarketing calls from
legit companies. Junk callers may or may not be calling from within the
country, but in any case they are calling via the Internet, making
their real location almost impossible to trace.

The DNC is no more moot than it ever was. There are just a lot more
scammers who know how to operate without being caught.

Pete Creswell wrote: "Since the DNC lists became moot a couple of years ago, our junk calls"

What do you mean "became moot"? Is there something
I don't know?

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:08:00 -0800, T wrote:

On 11/30/2015 04:49 PM, wrote:


Last week, I did a count of one day's calls and wound up with five junk
calls to one legitimate call.
Is anybody keeping track ?
If so, what's your ratio ?



On my business line it seems like it is about 5 to 1 junk calls.
On my home line, it is about 40 junk to 1 legitimate.
Endless political calls and the ubiquitous Anthem
calls (I finally got on Anthem's do not call list).
Love caller ID and my answering machine.


Yikes !
Sorry - but I get ~ 5 or 6 junk phone calls - per month .
I'm always polite to the human callers -
- they are real people - after all - trying to make a living -
usually they are suffering through a low-point in their
employment history -
.. and they don't really need a kick-in-the-teeth -
from a compfy fat-cat arse-whole -
- telling them - how low they are ..
A very nice & kind woman, I once knew - was employed
as a telephone canvasser - I just think of her -
and it's sooo easy to be polite.
Computer-callers are sooo easy to just hang-up-on !
John T.


My wife got one where the guy admitted he was staying on the
phone with her a long as he could because because she was
nice to him and he did not want to face the next arse hole.
So my wife told him a bunch of jokes for about 10 minutes.
She got a huge thank you at the end of the conversation.

She sounds like a great woman.

Then there was the one who told my wife that if she did not
let him speak to the owner that he was going to get her fired.

SWMBO?

We still laugh at that one every so often.

As I said elsewhere, I get very few junk calls, but I got one
yesterday who said there was a problem with my computer. I was still
eating my salad, so nothing to get cold, so I talked to him a while,
but after 5 minutes I told him that I knew he was lying. He asked
Why would I do that? For money. Have I asked for money? (Then I
remembered that the last guy, when I wouldnt' give him the real
password for TeamViewer, ended by having me call some other number
that Would ask for money. ).....

I asked him if he worked for Microsoft (the usual story), and he said
No, Microsoft doesn't call people like this. He worked for TechSquad
(a real company, I think) and they, he said, did customer service for
everyone.

I kept telling him I knew he was trying to cheat me. Why or if he
though he'd succeed, but he stayed on the phone 20 minutes from the
first time I said it, until I hung up.

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 20:04:07 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 19:31:34 -0500, Nil
wrote:

Who says the DNC list is "moot"?

Anyone who ever filed a complaint or 50.
Virtually all of my calls are junk.

I"m sure that's true, but the number of spam calls I get went down
tremendously when DNC started and it's still down. So it got rid of
the people who obey the law, and that was the vast majority of the
callers.

It's really just cardholder services (which has stopped at least for
now) and one other I forget, I guess because they stopped too.

Side story, tonight I was in the other room and heard the phone
ringing, but the cordless phone next to me didn't ring. When I tried
to answer on the cordless, it said "Out of Range". It was up to 10
rings or more by the time I got to the other room, and no one was
there when I picked up. Maybe they had just hung up.

Then I noticed the screen of the base station was blank, and the power
cord was unplugged. This also must explain why the ringer sound of
the base station had changed -- it was ringing on phone company power
only. I should have have noticed that and known the power was
unplugged.

I *69'd and it was someone in Georgia. I pressed 1 to call them,
reluctantly because I thought it was spam, but I got a busy signal.
They probably misdialed someone who should have been home, and
probably were calling another number by the time I called.

writes:


Last week, I did a count of one day's calls and wound up with five junk
calls to one legitimate call.
Is anybody keeping track ?
If so, what's your ratio ?



On my business line it seems like it is about 5 to 1 junk calls.
On my home line, it is about 40 junk to 1 legitimate.
Endless political calls and the ubiquitous Anthem
calls (I finally got on Anthem's do not call list).
Love caller ID and my answering machine.


Yikes !
Sorry - but I get ~ 5 or 6 junk phone calls - per month .
I'm always polite to the human callers -
- they are real people - after all - trying to make a living -
usually they are suffering through a low-point in their
employment history -
.. and they don't really need a kick-in-the-teeth -
from a compfy fat-cat arse-whole -
- telling them - how low they are ..
A very nice & kind woman, I once knew - was employed
as a telephone canvasser - I just think of her -
and it's sooo easy to be polite.
Computer-callers are sooo easy to just hang-up-on !
John T.

I'd like to clear this up for other posters.

People that work in call centers have zero respect for
other people. Just a moments reflection should tell them
that they've gone from no job and no point in being alive
to being a huge minus on the scale of value to society.

Now, the scammers from card services and windows,
not only are they a net minus, but they're also criminals
trying to defraud.

Zero sympathy from me.

Had a day recently when nomorobo intercepted 5 calls in one day.
The first at 7:30AM.

Easily over 90% of my calls are scam or sales related.
With nomorobo, I come closer to reasonable, maybe half or 2/3
the calls I answer are legitimate.

--
Dan Espen

card services is the worst.......

they waste my time and are a real PIA...

at least 1/3rd of my calls are spam.

On 11/30/2015 7:31 PM, Nil wrote:


I've been keeping track, logging all junk calls on a spreadsheet for
about 3 years. My goal has been to try to detect patters so I can block
numbers,

You do know that many of the numbers shown are not the number the caller
is using? Blocking them works today, but they have a different one
tomorrow.

On 11/30/2015 3:04 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Since the DNC lists became moot a couple of years ago, our junk calls
have increased dramatically - and, so far, I've been too cheap to spring
for CallerID and Simultaneous Ring in order to use NoMoRobo...

Last week, I did a count of one day's calls and wound up with five junk
calls to one legitimate call.

Is anybody keeping track ?

If so, what's your ratio ?


Never tracked them but we average about 5 junk calls a week, about 5
legit calls too.

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 21:15:06 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:

Now, the scammers from ... windows,
not only are they a net minus,
but they're also criminals

If I'm feeling charitable, I ask them where they got my number from,
because I never gave it to MS.

And if I'm not, I call then a stupid Pakistani. Most of the scam calls are
from India. For some reason, citizens of those two countries are
antagonistic to each other, and neither like it all when we remind them
that to our ears their accents sound identical.

On 2015-11-30 10:38 PM, Mike Duffy wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 21:15:06 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:

Now, the scammers from ... windows,
not only are they a net minus,
but they're also criminals

If I'm feeling charitable, I ask them where they got my number from,
because I never gave it to MS.

And if I'm not, I call then a stupid Pakistani. Most of the scam calls are
from India. For some reason, citizens of those two countries are
antagonistic to each other, and neither like it all when we remind them
that to our ears their accents sound identical.

Mike, since we are both in Canada, do you get those Air Duct Cleaning
Scammers? They were supposedly shut down a couple years ago around
here, but seem to have started up again. I am on the DNC

--
Froz...

Quando omni flunkus, moritati

On 11/30/2015 7:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/30/2015 7:31 PM, Nil wrote:

I've been keeping track, logging all junk calls on a spreadsheet for
about 3 years. My goal has been to try to detect patters so I can block
numbers,

You do know that many of the numbers shown are not the number the caller is
using? Blocking them works today, but they have a different one tomorrow.

Exactly. There are really only two blacklisting criteria that
can be reliably applied:
- block any incoming call that lists YOUR number as that of the caller
(this is obviously bogus!)
- block any call that fails to provide a CID

In either of these cases, the phone shouldn't even RING -- you know you
don't want to answer it!

(Many TPC's will sell you the latter service for a monthly fee)

Given that a caller can (not legally, in the US) spoof CID to report
*anything* they select (e.g., your own phone number), blacklisting
anything other than the cases above just leaves you playing wack-a-mole:
they "get through" using the CID of "XXXX", you blacklist "XXXX";
they change to using "YYYY" and get past your blacklist, you add "YYYY"
to the blacklist; etc. ad nauseum!

This leaves you with whitelisting as the only viable option.

But, an unconditional whitelist suffers from the same spoofing problem.
They can spoof the local hospital, some doctor's office "nearby", etc.
They don't have to know YOUR doctor's number... or, that of your
friends, etc. (of course, google already knows all of those if you
use google phone! ditto with TPC and who knows what other sources!)

And, unconditional whitelisting won't work if someone from whom you
would *accept* an incoming call happens to be calling from a phone
other than the one you expect them to be using. Or, if someone
calls ON THEIR BEHALF ("Your wife is in the doctor's office with your
son -- he's had an accident -- and she wanted me to call you...")

You need an authentication mechanism that doesn't rely on anything that
you can't control (CID being one of the things that you can't control!).

You also need for it to be personal to the people you want to hear from.
And, not inconvenience them -- much.

E.g., your MD's office may call with results of a test -- or to
reschedule an appointment. You have no control over who will be
calling (lots of "help" behind the desk!) nor the phone number
from which the call will originate. Likewise, a friend you bumped
into the night before -- after a long absence. A clerk from a
retailer can call to tell you that your order has arrived. The
pizza delivery guy can call claiming he can't locate your home.
etc.

I.e., it's not a trivial problem to solve. And, whatever you do
risks annoying callers that you *do* want to receive!

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 22:38:50 -0500, Mike Duffy
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 21:15:06 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:

Now, the scammers from ... windows,
not only are they a net minus,
but they're also criminals

If I'm feeling charitable, I ask them where they got my number from,
because I never gave it to MS.

And if I'm not, I call then a stupid Pakistani. Most of the scam calls are
from India. For some reason, citizens of those two countries are
antagonistic to each other, and neither like it all when we remind them
that to our ears their accents sound identical.

I always wondered how long you could keep them on the phone, while
they were trying to get you to enable remote support and give them the
password. "OK I did that" "now I am getting something ridiculous"
"OK let's start over" rinse repeat.

On 11/30/2015 8:38 PM, Mike Duffy wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 21:15:06 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:

Now, the scammers from ... windows,
not only are they a net minus,
but they're also criminals

If I'm feeling charitable, I ask them where they got my number from,
because I never gave it to MS.

And if I'm not, I call then a stupid Pakistani. Most of the scam calls are
from India. For some reason, citizens of those two countries are
antagonistic to each other, and neither like it all when we remind them
that to our ears their accents sound identical.

Hmmm... you're going to **** off a guy WHO HAS YOUR HOME PHONE NUMBER?
And, just *hope* he doesn't opt to start calling you at all hours
of the day/night??

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 20:46:51 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Given that a caller can (not legally, in the US) spoof CID to report
*anything* they select (e.g., your own phone number)

Forget legality. How is it technically possible to spoof? I thought it was
all done by the telco equipment.

If it's simply a matter of it being easy for foreigners, I suppose a
possible solution would be to block calls from outside the US & Canada. (I
put US & Canada together not for legal similarity, but because they use the
same 'International Country Code'.)

Then we can use the adaptive spammer technique I saw on the news the other
night. I can't remember the telco, but one of the cell carriers offers a
phone app that lets you 'flag' callers as spammers, and you can set your
answering prefs to reject callers with a reported spam call rate above a
certain threshold.

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 22:44:38 -0500, FrozenNorth wrote:

Mike, since we are both in Canada, do you get those Air Duct Cleaning
Scammers? They were supposedly shut down a couple years ago around
here, but seem to have started up again. I am on the DNC

I am on the DNC as well. What was the scam? In any case, I don't even want
calls from legit Air Duct Cleaners.

My approx stats:

30% Scam - MS technical department.
30% Legit(*) - chimney cleaners, home repair, snow removal, etc.
20% Legit - Survey / polls (95%+ during election campaigns)
20% Scam - 'Unknown' hangup robocaller phishing best time to call.

(*) Not really, because I'm on the DNC list.

Of course, any of these MIGHT be burglars calling to see if I'm home.

On 11/30/2015 8:59 PM, Mike Duffy wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 20:46:51 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Given that a caller can (not legally, in the US) spoof CID to report
*anything* they select (e.g., your own phone number)

Forget legality. How is it technically possible to spoof? I thought it was
all done by the telco equipment.

Nope. Set up an asterisk VoIP server and you, too, can spoof The White House,
Joe's Pizzeria, your wife's suspected lover, etc.

You can even spoof "call waiting" calls using cheap, COTS gear (I could
write an app for your smartphone that would generate the required tones).
But, this requires an accomplice and some ignorance on the part of the
calling party (IME, ignorance is one thing we always have PLENTY of!)

If it's simply a matter of it being easy for foreigners, I suppose a
possible solution would be to block calls from outside the US & Canada. (I
put US & Canada together not for legal similarity, but because they use the
same 'International Country Code'.)

Then we can use the adaptive spammer technique I saw on the news the other
night. I can't remember the telco, but one of the cell carriers offers a
phone app that lets you 'flag' callers as spammers, and you can set your
answering prefs to reject callers with a reported spam call rate above a
certain threshold.

That's blacklisting. Won't work. They can call back half a second later
using a DIFFERENT spoofed phone number.

Wack-that-mole!

On 2015-11-30 11:11 PM, Mike Duffy wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 22:44:38 -0500, FrozenNorth wrote:

Mike, since we are both in Canada, do you get those Air Duct Cleaning
Scammers? They were supposedly shut down a couple years ago around
here, but seem to have started up again. I am on the DNC

I am on the DNC as well. What was the scam? In any case, I don't even want
calls from legit Air Duct Cleaners.

My approx stats:

30% Scam - MS technical department.
30% Legit(*) - chimney cleaners, home repair, snow removal, etc.
20% Legit - Survey / polls (95%+ during election campaigns)
20% Scam - 'Unknown' hangup robocaller phishing best time to call.

(*) Not really, because I'm on the DNC list.

Of course, any of these MIGHT be burglars calling to see if I'm home.

Apparently it might just be in the TO area, call from India, they would
subcontract to some cheap ass company at a low price quoted to the
customer, then you would get a *very* high final bill. I never fell for
it, I never buy over the phone, unless I initiated the call.

--
Froz...

Quando omni flunkus, moritati

On 30 Nov 2015, Ed Pawlowski wrote in
alt.home.repair:

You do know that many of the numbers shown are not the number the
caller is using? Blocking them works today, but they have a
different one tomorrow.

Yes, I do. That's why I log them all and don't bother to block a number
until it shows itself to be a repeat offender. Which does happen more
often than you might think. OTOH, many numbers get used once, then
never again. They would be a waste of time to block.

My records show that use of a number can go in cycles - it may be used
for a few weeks, then disappear, never to be used again. I've also
found a few numbers that have been used by different scam campaigns
([s]campaigns?)

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 20:48:48 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 11/30/2015 8:38 PM, Mike Duffy wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 21:15:06 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:

Now, the scammers from ... windows,
not only are they a net minus,
but they're also criminals

If I'm feeling charitable, I ask them where they got my number from,
because I never gave it to MS.

And if I'm not, I call then a stupid Pakistani. Most of the scam calls are

The problem with that is that if he's an Indian and you call him
Pakistani, he may be insulted, but he might also think he did a good
job by making Pakistanis look bad.

from India. For some reason, citizens of those two countries are
antagonistic to each other, and neither like it all when we remind them
that to our ears their accents sound identical.

True. Is there a way to tell them apart? I was going to ask one if
his god approved of his lying and stealing, but I haven't yet decided
in what order of gods and names of God I should ask.

The guy I wrote about in the other post in this thread said he was in
Texas! Asked if I'd been there. I told him I'd been my brother
lived in Texas [and I'd been there several times.] He told me I was
lying. His point was that if I could say he was lying, he could say
that I was. I said, The difference is that I'm not lying and you
are.

Hmmm... you're going to **** off a guy WHO HAS YOUR HOME PHONE NUMBER?
And, just *hope* he doesn't opt to start calling you at all hours
of the day/night??

I worried about that before I called one a thief and a liar, but so
far, no extra calls from anyone.

I'm not sure my phone number is that available. They have a machine
that dials several numbers and they pick up for the first one that
picks up, and I'm not sure they know what number they're talking to.
??

On 30 Nov 2015, bob haller wrote in alt.home.repair:

card services is the worst.......

I haven't had any of those calls for several months. My most frequent
junk calls these days are,

- solar panels
- you have won a free trip the the Bahamas
- bogus veterans charity
- fake electricity resellers

On Monday, November 30, 2015 at 9:59:22 PM UTC-6, Mike Duffy wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 20:46:51 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Given that a caller can (not legally, in the US) spoof CID to report
*anything* they select (e.g., your own phone number)

Forget legality. How is it technically possible to spoof? I thought it was
all done by the telco equipment.

If it's simply a matter of it being easy for foreigners, I suppose a
possible solution would be to block calls from outside the US & Canada. (I
put US & Canada together not for legal similarity, but because they use the
same 'International Country Code'.)

Then we can use the adaptive spammer technique I saw on the news the other
night. I can't remember the telco, but one of the cell carriers offers a
phone app that lets you 'flag' callers as spammers, and you can set your
answering prefs to reject callers with a reported spam call rate above a
certain threshold.

I'd have to do some research but I remember some years ago, a group of hackers owned their own VoIP server that you could call into and it would mask your real number by sending out a different Caller ID number. I seem to recall a few paid services that do the same thing for people who feel threatened like those involved in domestic abuse situations. I don't worry about it because I've been using magicJacks for years. You can purchase one and set it up to show any area code you wish. If you use a magicJack and a proxy, no one would be able to determine your location.ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~{} Uncle VoIP Monster

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 21:14:46 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Nope. Set up an asterisk VoIP server and you, too, can spoof The White House,
Joe's Pizzeria, your wife's suspected lover, etc.

You can even spoof "call waiting" calls using cheap, COTS gear (I could
write an app for your smartphone that would generate the required tones).
But, this requires an accomplice and some ignorance on the part of the
calling party (IME, ignorance is one thing we always have PLENTY of!)

I think you meant ignorance on the part of the "called party" vs "calling
party". In any case, is there no 'chain of references/trust' (not sure of
the technical term) between service providers? Would not the number
displayed be that of the phone line rented by the people running the
server?

I just looked up the term and found the Wiki entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk_%28PBX%29

It occurs to me that this sort of software would make the perfect
'intelligent' answering machine:

You are not on the caller's whitelist of passthrough numbers. To
demonstrate that you are a legitimate caller, please choose one of the
following options:

- Press 1 if you are a family member ... To verify, type in the name of the
dog we had to put down because he wouldn't stop humping the furniture.

- Press 2 if you are a work colleague ... Enter the numerical part of the
street address at work to verify ... Press "1" to confirm your offer of a
minimum 4 hours at overtime rates. Please note that this is just to listen
to your message.

- Press 3 if you are an old college friend ... To verify, type in the name
of the crazy bitch who cost me the second semester.

- (etc.)

On 2015-11-30, Micky wrote:
What do you mean moot? The list is as good as it ever was.

Most of the scam calls seem to come from India or some such place. They
don't pay any attention to the Do Not Call list since there is no way
to go after them for violations. I don't get too many of those calls,
maybe a few per month.

When I have time I have some fun with them, particularly the "Windows
Support" scam. I'll let them loose inside a Linux virtual machine and
watch them fumble around. (Most of them use Teamviewer for remote
access which is cross-platform.) Or I'll just play dumb and tell them
that nothing they're telling me to do is working. (One didn't even
get it even when I was reading "Ubuntu Linux" from the startup screen!)

Once they know they've been "had" usually I wind up responding to them,
"Is that the kind of language that a professional from Windows Support
would use?" and they hang up.

Then there's the scam where they say they're from the IRS and if they
don't get immediate payment they're sending the police to make an arrest.
I just tell them, "go ahead, I'll wait here by the door for them."
Maybe on the next one I'll just tell them I went out and sent the money
via Western Union and let them scramble to go get it.

Of course I don't have time to play I'll just hang up on them.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 11/30/2015 06:00 PM, Micky wrote:

SWMBO?

Chuckle. I ain't saying!

On 11/30/2015 10:35 PM, Mike Duffy wrote:
On Mon, 30 Nov 2015 21:14:46 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Nope. Set up an asterisk VoIP server and you, too, can spoof The White House,
Joe's Pizzeria, your wife's suspected lover, etc.

You can even spoof "call waiting" calls using cheap, COTS gear (I could
write an app for your smartphone that would generate the required tones).
But, this requires an accomplice and some ignorance on the part of the
calling party (IME, ignorance is one thing we always have PLENTY of!)

I think you meant ignorance on the part of the "called party" vs "calling
party".

My bad. Yes. :

In any case, is there no 'chain of references/trust' (not sure of
the technical term) between service providers?

No. :

Would not the number
displayed be that of the phone line rented by the people running the
server?

I just looked up the term and found the Wiki entry:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterisk_%28PBX%29

It occurs to me that this sort of software would make the perfect
'intelligent' answering machine:

You are not on the caller's whitelist of passthrough numbers. To
demonstrate that you are a legitimate caller, please choose one of the
following options:

- Press 1 if you are a family member ... To verify, type in the name of the
dog we had to put down because he wouldn't stop humping the furniture.

Not all phones have text capability.

- Press 2 if you are a work colleague ... Enter the numerical part of the
street address at work to verify ... Press "1" to confirm your offer of a
minimum 4 hours at overtime rates. Please note that this is just to listen
to your message.

What if "that *sshole from accounting" calls (and you DON'T want to EVER
talk to him/her)? How do you keep that "secret" from him/her?

If you assign a "password" (or, a unique password for each caller!), then
you are imposing on the caller to keep track of this JUST to talk to
you. Imagine everyone had a system like that. Now youhave to keep
track of different passwords for different "callee's"?

- Press 3 if you are an old college friend ... To verify, type in the name
of the crazy bitch who cost me the second semester.

Ha! Trick question!! It *wasn't* the second semester. It was the summer
between Junior and Senior years!

And, by the way, I married her! (oops!) I always wondered why she
wanted to name the first-born "Michael"...

- (etc.)

My scheme is to use multiple data to build an authenticator, depending
on the "level of access" desired.

E.g., if *I* phone the house, I want to be able to open the garage door,
turn off the alarm, turn the heat up, etc. from the other end of the phone.

If SWMBO calls and I don't pick up, she might speculate that I'm in the
garage or out in the yard and didn't hear the phone ANNOUNCE herself
to me. So, she might ask to be routed to the PA in the back yard so
she can "page" me, the "Don? Are you there?"

If a (trusted) neighbor calls while we're away from home having noticed
that we left the garage door open, she should be able to command it
closed (though, perhaps, never command it *open*!)

OTOH, if *you* phone the house, I *may* let you leave a message ;-)
Or, may tell you to get stuffed!

To that end, I look at a lot of different "indicators" and use them in
concert to decide who you (the caller) are.

Is the call reporting a CID identifier? If so, what is it?

What *time* is it? (I wouldn't expect a call from a client at 3AM! Even
if the CID *suggests* that's who it is)

What is the voice characterization ("voice print") of the caller? Who
does it most closely match -- if anyone? And, how closely does it
*actually* match? (how likely is it that this is really the voice
I think it is)

What is the caller saying? E.g., I would expect the neighbor across the
street to say something like, "Hi, Don, this is Janie..." and not
"This is Wally's Wacky World of Wool!" (Janie would KNOW to use her
name in her greeting and would know that a machine was checking for
this -- in addition to her CID)

What is the caller *requesting*? E.g., "Turn off the alarm system"
would require additional authentication. This can be done using
a scheme like S/Key (one-time, disposable passwords that the caller
and the system know -- and track in synchrony; when I use PassWordOne,
it becomes invalid and PassWordTwo is activated) which can be spoken
or numeric (DTMF) entry. Or, it could be simply a prompted exchange:
"Please say 'Peter Piper Picked a Peck of Pickled Petunias'".

So, if an adversary (not just a telemarketer that I have to worry about)
had RECORDED my voice speaking *a* password, that password/phrase
would be useless -- he'd have no way of knowing what the machine would
require him to say (using MY voice pattern!).

All of this is implemented in an "expert system" (basically, just a
list of rules that say, "if this, then that, otherwise try this...
and, if that works, DO whatever").

Then, the "whatevers" translate into actions with which I may or may not
interact. E.g., if "whatever" is "take a message, note the time, date
and your idea as to the identity of the caller", then I can later
peruse those messages and decide which ones are of interest and which
are NO LONGER worth my time.

Based on how *I* respond to these "whatevers", the system modifies the
list of rules to reflect my preferences (as conveyed by my ACTIONS!).
E.g., if I always ignore/erase messages from Bob, then why should the
machine keep *taking* messages from Bob? It should, instead, tweek
the rules (expert system) to learn that I'm not interested in anything
Bob has to say and set the "whatever" for "Bob" to be "discard the call".

[I can have the machine do that "with prejudice" (hang up on him) or
politely (give him the illusion that it's taking a message... then
delete the message automatically so it never bothers "me" with the
fact that Bob called -- AGAIN!]

Likewise, if the "whatever" for Penny is "tell Don she's on the phone"
and I *ALWAYS* respond by saying "put her through!", then the machine
should rewrite the rules for her to be "put her through" instead of
just "announcing" her; i.e., save me that step of *telling* you to do
so!

If you think about it, this is what a (good) secretary does, automatically.
Over time, they learn the desires/habits/patterns of the person that they
support and automatically implement them -- without having to be TOLD
("programmed" in machine-speak) to do so!

Per Micky:
Since the DNC lists became moot a couple of years ago, our junk calls

What do you mean moot? The list is as good as it ever was.

Maybe in your state, but not in Pennsylvania. I have given up on
reporting violations but I have more than half-dozen lame-sounding
letters from the DA's office to show for the ones I have reported.

Two snips from the letters:

"...multiple telephone service providers and sophisticated internet
technology to make and relay the calls several times before reaching a
consumer. This type of service enables those sending the messages to
use hundreds, or even thousands, of numbers to hide the source of the
solicitation...."

and

"Many of these numbers are provided by telephone service providers
located outside the United States. As a result, local carriers
generally are not able to track or provide information regarding a
specific call or the specific subscriber. Also, foreign telephone
carriers generally are not subject to State or Federal jurisdiction."
--
Pete Cresswell

Per Dan Espen:
With nomorobo, I come closer to reasonable, maybe half or 2/3
the calls I answer are legitimate.

Geeze! I thought NoMoRobo would be better than that .... like 99....

99 seems about right for CallControl (a crowd-sourced app) that runs on
my Android phone.
--
Pete Cresswell

Per Micky:
I"m sure that's true, but the number of spam calls I get went down
tremendously when DNC started and it's still down.

Same here for maybe a year or two.... maybe even more.

I even got a thirty-some-dollar check from the DA's office as part of
the settlement in a case against one of the guys I reported.

But, for at the last two years - maybe more, the DNC list has been moot.

Somebody might mince semantics about what "moot" really means.... but
the bottom line is that I now get five junk calls for every legit call
and that spells "Moot" to me...
--
Pete Cresswell