My wife and I have been searching on and off for a place with several
acres but in the same general area. Fairly recently, I saw a place with
4 acres and we went to view the interior. To our surprise, the inside
is pretty much move in ready. It has an old fuel oil furnace that would
need to be updated. House size is a bit small at 1,200 square feet for
our family, but we could easily add a second toilet,
bedroom and living room on to the east side.

Anyway, I wanted to find out why this bank owned property, which is
in a great neighboring school district, was only being listed for about
$64k. It turns out that as far as the realtors was concerned, it had
"no water". The bank has recently dropped the asking price from the
original price by about $3k or so. I was able to find that the bank
obtained the property for under $50k, supposedly.

I decided to do more digging, since my Dad and I had seen what looked
like 2 fairly new well caps. I read over the well reports, and they
reported between 1/2 and 3/4 gallon per minute flow rate for both of the
wells, which were each sunk over 200 feet deep within 40 feet or so from
the house. Well, that's not "no" water, but it doesn't compare
favorably to the average of 8 gallons per minute in the surrounding
area. The former owner spent nearly $20,000 drilling those 2 wells.

Speaking of that, all of the surrounding wells struck water at an
average depth of 45 feet, and the neighbors I interviewed said they had
no problems with well water ever running out.

Looking over our water bills from the past few years, I figured out
that our family uses an average of 135 gallons of water per day. (not
including water for the garden, which we could get from house rainwater
runoff) This means that just 1 of the wells could be pumped for 5 hours
a day and give us enough water to use.

Would it be possible to get a large poly tank - say 2,000 gallon, and
have a small pump trickle the water up into that so that we would always
have a week or more of water stored up for future use? Would something
like that be as simple as adding the tank and running a pipe over to it
from the well, then adding a pump in the tank for the house? (or are
there a bunch of inspections and permits that would be required for
something like this?)

Both my wife and I liked the property and the house, despite it being
on the small side. We were truly surprised at the general good
condition of the interior, given the price. Everyone else is fearful
because of the water situation. I am sensing that the bank may continue
to lower the price of the place over the next few months before finding
someone willing to risk buying a house with "no water".

We are tempted to make an offer on the place, but I'd like to hear
from someone who has dealt with a similar situation before deciding
whether we should go ahead.

On 08/02/2014 5:01 PM, Ohioguy wrote:
....

Lots of things are "possible"; whether they make sense or not is another
question...

I'd start with the driller and discuss why this seems so different than
the (at least anecdotal) results in nearby areas. Is there any
possibility of additional property or another well somewhere on the
property that taps into a better formation?

How long have these wells produced; is there really any confidence they
will continue even at these low rates? That would be my main concern in
committing to using them as only source going forward; the storage could
be solved altho that's far from an ideal situation going forward.

Also, I suppose you've checked but will the local authority if there is
one issue a "certificate of occupancy" if such is required in the
locality given the shortness of supply? That might end up being a
'gotcha!'.

All in all, my guess would be that you may well spend at least the
difference you're saving solving the problem (or worse yet, attempting
to but not being successful for long).

I'd not say "never" but I'd surely be reluctant and hope to have more
solid answers on the actual water supply itself than just a hope the
current trickle will continue indefinitely.

--

"Ohioguy" wrote in message
...
My wife and I have been searching on and off for a place with several
acres but in the same general area. Fairly recently, I saw a place with 4
acres and we went to view the interior. To our surprise, the inside is
pretty much move in ready. It has an old fuel oil furnace that would need
to be updated. House size is a bit small at 1,200 square feet for our
family, but we could easily add a second toilet,
bedroom and living room on to the east side.

Anyway, I wanted to find out why this bank owned property, which is in a
great neighboring school district, was only being listed for about $64k.
It turns out that as far as the realtors was concerned, it had "no water".
The bank has recently dropped the asking price from the original price by
about $3k or so. I was able to find that the bank obtained the property
for under $50k, supposedly.

I decided to do more digging, since my Dad and I had seen what looked
like 2 fairly new well caps. I read over the well reports, and they
reported between 1/2 and 3/4 gallon per minute flow rate for both of the
wells, which were each sunk over 200 feet deep within 40 feet or so from
the house. Well, that's not "no" water, but it doesn't compare favorably
to the average of 8 gallons per minute in the surrounding area. The
former owner spent nearly $20,000 drilling those 2 wells.

Speaking of that, all of the surrounding wells struck water at an
average depth of 45 feet, and the neighbors I interviewed said they had no
problems with well water ever running out.


how far away are these surrounding wells? Seems odd the big difference.
You might go speak with the well driller for his thoughts.

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 7:00:23 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 08/02/2014 5:01 PM, Ohioguy wrote:

...



Lots of things are "possible"; whether they make sense or not is another

question...



I'd start with the driller and discuss why this seems so different than

the (at least anecdotal) results in nearby areas.

Good idea. I'd also go to neighbors, find out who drilled their
wells, go talk to those drillers too. Or failing that, other drillers
in the area. Along those lines, how did this come to be? Presumably
they had water at the house previously? When were the two wells there
drilled? The well drillers are the ones who will know at what leve
the acquifers are, if this is a common problem, etc.




Is there any

possibility of additional property or another well somewhere on the

property that taps into a better formation?




He has 4 acres, so possibly a well could be drilled somewhere at a
distance from the house where the chances might be better.





How long have these wells produced; is there really any confidence they

will continue even at these low rates? That would be my main concern in

committing to using them as only source going forward; the storage could

be solved altho that's far from an ideal situation going forward.



+1


Also, I suppose you've checked but will the local authority if there is

one issue a "certificate of occupancy" if such is required in the

locality given the shortness of supply? That might end up being a

'gotcha!'.



Excellent point.



All in all, my guess would be that you may well spend at least the

difference you're saving solving the problem (or worse yet, attempting

to but not being successful for long).



For sure I'd play hardball on price with the bank, if I were to
proceed at all. Sometimes a bargain isn't worth it.




I'd not say "never" but I'd surely be reluctant and hope to have more

solid answers on the actual water supply itself than just a hope the

current trickle will continue indefinitely.



--

And it really is just a trickle, 1/2 gpm.

Another factor. He said the other wells in the area were at 45 feet.
I wonder if part of the problem could be that is where the easy water
is, but it may no longer be legal for a potable well to be at that
shallow a depth? Here NJ, you could do that for an irrigation well,
but I believe the min depth for a potable well is 2x that.

It may not be possible to obtain a mortage on a home without adquate water. one reason is that in case of fire there may not be enough water to put out a fire

even if you pay cash you may not be able to get homeowners insurance. again the fire issue.

check with local drillers. There may be a layer of permable soil. drill too deep all the water runs out

of course resale value of a home without enough water will be impacted. thats good now for negoiations

Its possible to buy a deeprock DIY well drilling machine and do it yourself Last time I checked they cost under 5 grand, so buy it, drill your well, then sell the machine if you care too. or keep it and drill wells for others $$$

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
It may not be possible to obtain a mortage on a home without adquate
water. one reason is that in case of fire there may not be enough water to
put out a fire

even if you pay cash you may not be able to get homeowners insurance.
again the fire issue.

good points, but fire departments only care that there is a supply of X
gallons of water for fire purposes. They don't care where it came from.
So, buy one or more tanks dedicated to fire purposes, and fill them up.
Hire a water truck, run your 1/2 gpm well for a month if needed, get your
beer buddies to all **** in the tank - it matters not.

"Ohioguy" wrote in message

My wife and I have been searching on and off for a place with several
acres but in the same general area. Fairly recently, I saw a place with
4 acres and we went to view the interior. To our surprise, the inside
is pretty much move in ready. It has an old fuel oil furnace that would
need to be updated. House size is a bit small at 1,200 square feet for
our family, but we could easily add a second toilet,
bedroom and living room on to the east side.

Anyway, I wanted to find out why this bank owned property, which is
in a great neighboring school district, was only being listed for about
$64k. It turns out that as far as the realtors was concerned, it had
"no water". The bank has recently dropped the asking price from the
original price by about $3k or so. I was able to find that the bank
obtained the property for under $50k, supposedly.

I decided to do more digging, since my Dad and I had seen what looked
like 2 fairly new well caps. I read over the well reports, and they
reported between 1/2 and 3/4 gallon per minute flow rate for both of the
wells, which were each sunk over 200 feet deep within 40 feet or so from
the house. Well, that's not "no" water, but it doesn't compare
favorably to the average of 8 gallons per minute in the surrounding
area. The former owner spent nearly $20,000 drilling those 2 wells.

Speaking of that, all of the surrounding wells struck water at an
average depth of 45 feet, and the neighbors I interviewed said they had
no problems with well water ever running out.

Looking over our water bills from the past few years, I figured out
that our family uses an average of 135 gallons of water per day. (not
including water for the garden, which we could get from house rainwater
runoff) This means that just 1 of the wells could be pumped for 5 hours
a day and give us enough water to use.

Would it be possible to get a large poly tank - say 2,000 gallon, and
have a small pump trickle the water up into that so that we would always
have a week or more of water stored up for future use? Would something
like that be as simple as adding the tank and running a pipe over to it
from the well, then adding a pump in the tank for the house? (or are
there a bunch of inspections and permits that would be required for
something like this?)

Both my wife and I liked the property and the house, despite it being
on the small side. We were truly surprised at the general good
condition of the interior, given the price. Everyone else is fearful
because of the water situation. I am sensing that the bank may continue
to lower the price of the place over the next few months before finding
someone willing to risk buying a house with "no water".

We are tempted to make an offer on the place, but I'd like to hear
from someone who has dealt with a similar situation before deciding
whether we should go ahead.

What you propose is commonly done in many countries.

When I lived in Veracruz, Mexico every house had a sub-surface concrete
cistern of about 1000 gallons---they looked about the same as a septic
tank. They had it because there was close to zero head on the municipal
water supply; consequently, it was trickled into the cistern, flow being
controlled by a simple float valve (same as in a toilet tank).

There was still no head so water from the cistern was pumped to another
concrete tank on the roof; it held about 500 gallons and - again - flow to
it was controlled by a float valve. In your case, you'd just use a
pressure tank with the secondary pump from the storage tank.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

I decided to do more digging, since my Dad and I had seen what looked
like 2 fairly new well caps. I read over the well reports, and they
reported between 1/2 and 3/4 gallon per minute flow rate for both of the
wells, which were each sunk over 200 feet deep within 40 feet or so from
the house. Well, that's not "no" water, but it doesn't compare
favorably to the average of 8 gallons per minute in the surrounding
area. The former owner spent nearly $20,000 drilling those 2 wells

I would call that a very precarious and uncertain water supply
situation. Slightly over a gallon/min for the two wells is very low.
If you had a guarantee that you could get that flow 24/7 and it would
*never* drop lower, you could install a 10k gal cistern and get by,
but I would not risk it myself. There are no guarantees like that.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On Sunday, August 3, 2014 8:03:42 AM UTC-4, CRNG wrote:
I decided to do more digging, since my Dad and I had seen what looked

like 2 fairly new well caps. I read over the well reports, and they

reported between 1/2 and 3/4 gallon per minute flow rate for both of the

wells, which were each sunk over 200 feet deep within 40 feet or so from

the house. Well, that's not "no" water, but it doesn't compare

favorably to the average of 8 gallons per minute in the surrounding

area. The former owner spent nearly $20,000 drilling those 2 wells



I would call that a very precarious and uncertain water supply

situation. Slightly over a gallon/min for the two wells is very low.

If you had a guarantee that you could get that flow 24/7 and it would

*never* drop lower, you could install a 10k gal cistern and get by,

but I would not risk it myself. There are no guarantees like that.


Why would he need a 10K cistern to get by? He only needs a buffer big
enough to handle worst case usage. Seems to me ~1000 gal is enough,
unless he's going to want to water a lawn.



--

Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers

and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.

Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those

newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On 8/2/2014 5:01 PM, Ohioguy wrote:
My wife and I have been searching on and off for a place with several
acres but in the same general area. Fairly recently, I saw a place with
4 acres and we went to view the interior. To our surprise, the inside
is pretty much move in ready. It has an old fuel oil furnace that would
need to be updated. House size is a bit small at 1,200 square feet for
our family, but we could easily add a second toilet,
bedroom and living room on to the east side.

Anyway, I wanted to find out why this bank owned property, which is
in a great neighboring school district, was only being listed for about
$64k. It turns out that as far as the realtors was concerned, it had
"no water". The bank has recently dropped the asking price from the
original price by about $3k or so. I was able to find that the bank
obtained the property for under $50k, supposedly.

I decided to do more digging, since my Dad and I had seen what looked
like 2 fairly new well caps. I read over the well reports, and they
reported between 1/2 and 3/4 gallon per minute flow rate for both of the
wells, which were each sunk over 200 feet deep within 40 feet or so from
the house. Well, that's not "no" water, but it doesn't compare
favorably to the average of 8 gallons per minute in the surrounding
area. The former owner spent nearly $20,000 drilling those 2 wells.

Speaking of that, all of the surrounding wells struck water at an
average depth of 45 feet, and the neighbors I interviewed said they had
no problems with well water ever running out.

Looking over our water bills from the past few years, I figured out
that our family uses an average of 135 gallons of water per day. (not
including water for the garden, which we could get from house rainwater
runoff) This means that just 1 of the wells could be pumped for 5 hours
a day and give us enough water to use.

Would it be possible to get a large poly tank - say 2,000 gallon, and
have a small pump trickle the water up into that so that we would always
have a week or more of water stored up for future use? Would something
like that be as simple as adding the tank and running a pipe over to it
from the well, then adding a pump in the tank for the house? (or are
there a bunch of inspections and permits that would be required for
something like this?)

Both my wife and I liked the property and the house, despite it being
on the small side. We were truly surprised at the general good
condition of the interior, given the price. Everyone else is fearful
because of the water situation. I am sensing that the bank may continue
to lower the price of the place over the next few months before finding
someone willing to risk buying a house with "no water".

We are tempted to make an offer on the place, but I'd like to hear
from someone who has dealt with a similar situation before deciding
whether we should go ahead.
I looked at a property one time that really had no water. The
previous owners had a tank in the garage that they filled by
hauling in water from some place else. It was a nice enough
house but the lack of water was a big problem.

Bill

Ohioguy wrote:

My wife and I have been searching on and off for a place with several
acres but in the same general area. Fairly recently, I saw a place with
4 acres and we went to view the interior. To our surprise, the inside
is pretty much move in ready. It has an old fuel oil furnace that would
need to be updated. House size is a bit small at 1,200 square feet for
our family, but we could easily add a second toilet,
bedroom and living room on to the east side.

Anyway, I wanted to find out why this bank owned property, which is
in a great neighboring school district, was only being listed for about
$64k. It turns out that as far as the realtors was concerned, it had
"no water". The bank has recently dropped the asking price from the
original price by about $3k or so. I was able to find that the bank
obtained the property for under $50k, supposedly.

I decided to do more digging, since my Dad and I had seen what looked
like 2 fairly new well caps. I read over the well reports, and they
reported between 1/2 and 3/4 gallon per minute flow rate for both of the
wells, which were each sunk over 200 feet deep within 40 feet or so from
the house. Well, that's not "no" water, but it doesn't compare
favorably to the average of 8 gallons per minute in the surrounding
area. The former owner spent nearly $20,000 drilling those 2 wells.

Speaking of that, all of the surrounding wells struck water at an
average depth of 45 feet, and the neighbors I interviewed said they had
no problems with well water ever running out.

Looking over our water bills from the past few years, I figured out
that our family uses an average of 135 gallons of water per day. (not
including water for the garden, which we could get from house rainwater
runoff) This means that just 1 of the wells could be pumped for 5 hours
a day and give us enough water to use.

Would it be possible to get a large poly tank - say 2,000 gallon, and
have a small pump trickle the water up into that so that we would always
have a week or more of water stored up for future use? Would something
like that be as simple as adding the tank and running a pipe over to it
from the well, then adding a pump in the tank for the house? (or are
there a bunch of inspections and permits that would be required for
something like this?)

Both my wife and I liked the property and the house, despite it being
on the small side. We were truly surprised at the general good
condition of the interior, given the price. Everyone else is fearful
because of the water situation. I am sensing that the bank may continue
to lower the price of the place over the next few months before finding
someone willing to risk buying a house with "no water".

We are tempted to make an offer on the place, but I'd like to hear
from someone who has dealt with a similar situation before deciding
whether we should go ahead.

In some areas low producing wells are common. As long as the total
production per day of the well(s) is a reasonable amount, it's a simple
matter of installing a 1,000-2,000 gal cistern, a pump to pump from the
cistern to a normal pressure tank for household use, and a controller
for the well pumps. The controller runs the well pump or pumps (might
need two controllers) until either the cistern is full or the well is
dry (detects the pump running dry and shuts it off for a period of
time). The cistern is plenty big to meet normal household demand peaks,
and the wells keep up with refilling the cistern at a slower rate.
Nothing exotic or to be afraid of as long as the wells are reliable if
slow.

CRNG wrote:

I decided to do more digging, since my Dad and I had seen what looked
like 2 fairly new well caps. I read over the well reports, and they
reported between 1/2 and 3/4 gallon per minute flow rate for both of the
wells, which were each sunk over 200 feet deep within 40 feet or so from
the house. Well, that's not "no" water, but it doesn't compare
favorably to the average of 8 gallons per minute in the surrounding
area. The former owner spent nearly $20,000 drilling those 2 wells

I would call that a very precarious and uncertain water supply
situation. Slightly over a gallon/min for the two wells is very low.
If you had a guarantee that you could get that flow 24/7 and it would
*never* drop lower, you could install a 10k gal cistern and get by,
but I would not risk it myself. There are no guarantees like that.

There are 1,440 minutes in a day so you could expect between 1,440 and
2,160 gal available per use per day. My water bill here (co-op water)
for two people, laundry, some lawn watering, etc. ranges from
2,500-4,500 gal / month, or an average of 150 gal / day. I would not be
at all worried about wells that can produce at least 1,440 gal / day as
long as they are reliable. Low production isn't an issue with a large
cistern and appropriate pump controllers.

On Sunday, August 3, 2014 11:17:22 AM UTC-4, Pete C. wrote:
Ohioguy wrote:



My wife and I have been searching on and off for a place with several

acres but in the same general area. Fairly recently, I saw a place with

4 acres and we went to view the interior. To our surprise, the inside

is pretty much move in ready. It has an old fuel oil furnace that would

need to be updated. House size is a bit small at 1,200 square feet for

our family, but we could easily add a second toilet,

bedroom and living room on to the east side.



Anyway, I wanted to find out why this bank owned property, which is

in a great neighboring school district, was only being listed for about

$64k. It turns out that as far as the realtors was concerned, it had

"no water". The bank has recently dropped the asking price from the

original price by about $3k or so. I was able to find that the bank

obtained the property for under $50k, supposedly.



I decided to do more digging, since my Dad and I had seen what looked

like 2 fairly new well caps. I read over the well reports, and they

reported between 1/2 and 3/4 gallon per minute flow rate for both of the

wells, which were each sunk over 200 feet deep within 40 feet or so from

the house. Well, that's not "no" water, but it doesn't compare

favorably to the average of 8 gallons per minute in the surrounding

area. The former owner spent nearly $20,000 drilling those 2 wells.



Speaking of that, all of the surrounding wells struck water at an

average depth of 45 feet, and the neighbors I interviewed said they had

no problems with well water ever running out.



Looking over our water bills from the past few years, I figured out

that our family uses an average of 135 gallons of water per day. (not

including water for the garden, which we could get from house rainwater

runoff) This means that just 1 of the wells could be pumped for 5 hours

a day and give us enough water to use.



Would it be possible to get a large poly tank - say 2,000 gallon, and

have a small pump trickle the water up into that so that we would always

have a week or more of water stored up for future use? Would something

like that be as simple as adding the tank and running a pipe over to it

from the well, then adding a pump in the tank for the house? (or are

there a bunch of inspections and permits that would be required for

something like this?)



Both my wife and I liked the property and the house, despite it being

on the small side. We were truly surprised at the general good

condition of the interior, given the price. Everyone else is fearful

because of the water situation. I am sensing that the bank may continue

to lower the price of the place over the next few months before finding

someone willing to risk buying a house with "no water".



We are tempted to make an offer on the place, but I'd like to hear

from someone who has dealt with a similar situation before deciding

whether we should go ahead.



In some areas low producing wells are common. As long as the total

production per day of the well(s) is a reasonable amount, it's a simple

matter of installing a 1,000-2,000 gal cistern, a pump to pump from the

cistern to a normal pressure tank for household use, and a controller

for the well pumps. The controller runs the well pump or pumps (might

need two controllers) until either the cistern is full or the well is

dry (detects the pump running dry and shuts it off for a period of

time). The cistern is plenty big to meet normal household demand peaks,

and the wells keep up with refilling the cistern at a slower rate.

Nothing exotic or to be afraid of as long as the wells are reliable if

slow.

I guess the big question is how can one determine if the wells are
reliable, long term? Besides asking well drillers, neighbors, anything
else one can do? I would think one good thing may be that the wells are
deep. If it was a 50ft well, I would think it would be more likely that
the water level could decline due to changing conditions.

On 08/03/2014 10:22 AM, Pete C. wrote:

CRNG wrote:

I decided to do more digging, since my Dad and I had seen what looked
like 2 fairly new well caps. I read over the well reports, and they
reported between 1/2 and 3/4 gallon per minute flow rate for both of the
wells, which were each sunk over 200 feet deep within 40 feet or so from
the house. Well, that's not "no" water, but it doesn't compare
favorably to the average of 8 gallons per minute in the surrounding
area. The former owner spent nearly $20,000 drilling those 2 wells

I would call that a very precarious and uncertain water supply
situation. Slightly over a gallon/min for the two wells is very low.
If you had a guarantee that you could get that flow 24/7 and it would
*never* drop lower, you could install a 10k gal cistern and get by,
but I would not risk it myself. There are no guarantees like that.

There are 1,440 minutes in a day so you could expect between 1,440 and
2,160 gal available per use per day. ...

I don't think it is at all clear one _could_ expect that for the
indefinite future from the limited information provided, particularly
since apparently both are quite close to each other, one may well pump
down the other as well. OTOH, it's quite possible they are both capable
of pumping that for quite some period of time.

A lot depends on what the water source they're tapping into really is;
in some places it's renewable from surface water in short time frames,
in others as here it's a nonrenewable source (estimates are 0.1"/yr
recovery rates) so depending on where the water table is relative to the
well casing depth and pump set depth and how far down the water-bearing
formation goes, there may be quite a bit or only a small amount available.

Need a lot more history and other data than what is available so far to
have any idea whatever imo, but I'd definitely be leery going in.

--

On Sunday, August 3, 2014 11:22:23 AM UTC-4, Pete C. wrote:
CRNG wrote:



I decided to do more digging, since my Dad and I had seen what looked

like 2 fairly new well caps. I read over the well reports, and they

reported between 1/2 and 3/4 gallon per minute flow rate for both of the

wells, which were each sunk over 200 feet deep within 40 feet or so from

the house. Well, that's not "no" water, but it doesn't compare

favorably to the average of 8 gallons per minute in the surrounding

area. The former owner spent nearly $20,000 drilling those 2 wells



I would call that a very precarious and uncertain water supply

situation. Slightly over a gallon/min for the two wells is very low.

If you had a guarantee that you could get that flow 24/7 and it would

*never* drop lower, you could install a 10k gal cistern and get by,

but I would not risk it myself. There are no guarantees like that.



There are 1,440 minutes in a day so you could expect between 1,440 and

2,160 gal available per use per day. My water bill here (co-op water)

for two people, laundry, some lawn watering, etc. ranges from

2,500-4,500 gal / month, or an average of 150 gal / day. I would not be

at all worried about wells that can produce at least 1,440 gal / day as

long as they are reliable. Low production isn't an issue with a large

cistern and appropriate pump controllers.

theres no guarantee that any well will not run dry. so you cant just multiply minutes in a day times well production in gallon per hour.....

On 08/03/2014 10:50 AM, trader_4 wrote:
....

I guess the big question is how can one determine if the wells are
reliable, long term? Besides asking well drillers, neighbors, anything
else one can do? I would think one good thing may be that the wells are
deep. If it was a 50ft well, I would think it would be more likely that
the water level could decline due to changing conditions.

The State water folks, whoever they are in OH will undoubtedly have
quite a lot of data and knowledge as well as just the locals.

It depends a lot (actually, almost entirely) on what the water source is
as I just finished noting in another response...

--

On Sun, 03 Aug 2014 11:10:22 -0500, dpb wrote in


On 08/03/2014 10:22 AM, Pete C. wrote:

CRNG wrote:

I decided to do more digging, since my Dad and I had seen what looked
like 2 fairly new well caps. I read over the well reports, and they
reported between 1/2 and 3/4 gallon per minute flow rate for both of the
wells, which were each sunk over 200 feet deep within 40 feet or so from
the house. Well, that's not "no" water, but it doesn't compare
favorably to the average of 8 gallons per minute in the surrounding
area. The former owner spent nearly $20,000 drilling those 2 wells

I would call that a very precarious and uncertain water supply
situation. Slightly over a gallon/min for the two wells is very low.
If you had a guarantee that you could get that flow 24/7 and it would
*never* drop lower, you could install a 10k gal cistern and get by,
but I would not risk it myself. There are no guarantees like that.

There are 1,440 minutes in a day so you could expect between 1,440 and
2,160 gal available per use per day. ...

I don't think it is at all clear one _could_ expect that for the
indefinite future from the limited information provided, particularly
since apparently both are quite close to each other, one may well pump
down the other as well. OTOH, it's quite possible they are both capable
of pumping that for quite some period of time.

Exactly. If they can average 1gpm 24/7 for the next x-years, they'll
be fine and will have gotten a great bargain. If not, they will be in
trouble.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

In article ,
"Pico Rico" wrote:

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
It may not be possible to obtain a mortage on a home without adquate
water. one reason is that in case of fire there may not be enough water to
put out a fire

even if you pay cash you may not be able to get homeowners insurance.
again the fire issue.

good points, but fire departments only care that there is a supply of X
gallons of water for fire purposes. They don't care where it came from.
So, buy one or more tanks dedicated to fire purposes, and fill them up.
Hire a water truck, run your 1/2 gpm well for a month if needed, get your
beer buddies to all **** in the tank - it matters not.

Unless there is city water, insurance companies look more to the
tankers, etc, of the local FD than water on the property. I doubt even
the ones that have good pressure have any hydrants or other readily
available supply (with the possible exception of a pond)
--
³Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.²
‹ Aaron Levenstein

On Sunday, August 3, 2014 11:15:27 AM UTC-7, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"Pico Rico" wrote:

"bob haller" wrote in message
...
It may not be possible to obtain a mortage on a home without adquate

water. one reason is that in case of fire there may not be enough water to

put out a fire

Unless there is city water, insurance companies look more to the
tankers, etc, of the local FD than water on the property. I doubt even
the ones that have good pressure have any hydrants or other readily
available supply (with the possible exception of a pond)

Correct. I have heard of areas that require huge water tanks be installed just for fire protection though. Can't recall where I saw that.

It doesn't matter how good a well is, the pumps installed are not capable of pumping enough volume/pressure to do much good fighting fire. Now agricultural places running those huge sprinkler systems might be able to install a hydrant.

Our local volunteer fire departments all have tanker trucks as well as the assorted fire/rescue/ladder types and still rely in the local fertilizer plant tankers to assist.

Harry K

Ohioguy wrote:

Would it be possible to get a large poly tank - say 2,000 gallon, and
have a small pump trickle the water up into that so that we would always
have a week or more of water stored up for future use?

Technically? Sure. You could also look into having water delivered.

Would something
like that be as simple as adding the tank and running a pipe over to it
from the well, then adding a pump in the tank for the house? (or are
there a bunch of inspections and permits that would be required for
something like this?)

Inspections and permits would be required in most locations, especially if a
mortgage on the property is involved. But that brings up a potential issue you
may not have considered. Getting a mortgage on such a property will be difficult
to impossible.

If you are able to purchase for cash or finance privately, you also need to
consider the salability of the property in the future, which is likely to be
very difficult.

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...
Unless there is city water, insurance companies look more to the
tankers, etc, of the local FD than water on the property. I doubt even
the ones that have good pressure have any hydrants or other readily
available supply (with the possible exception of a pond)
--

Unless it is something very unusual, there is no way a normal home well can
supply a fire truck with anywhere enough water. The well pipe will not
handle hardly any of the volume of water the pumper is goung to use. They
pump out 500 gallons in just a couple of minuits.

I doubt that the inusrance companies even care about water in the home well
when it comes to fire protection.

Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...
Unless there is city water, insurance companies look more to the
tankers, etc, of the local FD than water on the property. I doubt even
the ones that have good pressure have any hydrants or other readily
available supply (with the possible exception of a pond)
--

Unless it is something very unusual, there is no way a normal home well can
supply a fire truck with anywhere enough water. The well pipe will not
handle hardly any of the volume of water the pumper is goung to use. They
pump out 500 gallons in just a couple of minuits.

I doubt that the inusrance companies even care about water in the home well
when it comes to fire protection.

If there isn't a fire hydrant within 200', or a suitably large pond that
is consistently full, then rates will be a bit higher, but you will
still get insurance generally. In the case of a pond it is common to
pre-install a suction pipe into the middle of the pond at an appropriate
depth with a standpipe and fitting at the edge of the pond for ready
connection to the pumper truck.

Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:

Ohioguy wrote:

Would it be possible to get a large poly tank - say 2,000 gallon, and
have a small pump trickle the water up into that so that we would always
have a week or more of water stored up for future use?

Technically? Sure. You could also look into having water delivered.

Would something
like that be as simple as adding the tank and running a pipe over to it
from the well, then adding a pump in the tank for the house? (or are
there a bunch of inspections and permits that would be required for
something like this?)

Inspections and permits would be required in most locations, especially if a
mortgage on the property is involved. But that brings up a potential issue you
may not have considered. Getting a mortgage on such a property will be difficult
to impossible.

If you are able to purchase for cash or finance privately, you also need to
consider the salability of the property in the future, which is likely to be
very difficult.

There are plenty of places were low yield wells are common and pretty
much every house has one and a cistern system. They are rarely ever a
problem as long as the wells are reliable.

On 08/03/2014 5:42 PM, Pete C. wrote:
....

... They are rarely ever a
problem as long as the wells are reliable.

And there's the kicker -- in an area w/ generally almost an order of
magnitude higher yield according to the OP, would one consider these
wells likely to be reliable for the long haul?

I'd worry just on that grounds alone...

--

dpb wrote:

On 08/03/2014 5:42 PM, Pete C. wrote:
...

... They are rarely ever a
problem as long as the wells are reliable.

And there's the kicker -- in an area w/ generally almost an order of
magnitude higher yield according to the OP, would one consider these
wells likely to be reliable for the long haul?

I'd worry just on that grounds alone...

I'd ten to not worry on those grounds. If the wells in the immediate
vicinity are higher yield, I'd expect this low yield well is being fed
from the same source, but via cracks in the rocks thus the lower yield.
Certainly there should be hydrology reports for the area that can give
more information.

On Sunday, August 3, 2014 3:33:19 PM UTC-4, Arthur Conan Doyle wrote:
Ohioguy wrote:



Would it be possible to get a large poly tank - say 2,000 gallon, and

have a small pump trickle the water up into that so that we would always

have a week or more of water stored up for future use?



Technically? Sure. You could also look into having water delivered.



Would something

like that be as simple as adding the tank and running a pipe over to it

from the well, then adding a pump in the tank for the house? (or are

there a bunch of inspections and permits that would be required for

something like this?)



Inspections and permits would be required in most locations, especially if a

mortgage on the property is involved. But that brings up a potential issue you

may not have considered. Getting a mortgage on such a property will be difficult

to impossible.



I've bought and sold quite a few houses and I've never seen a bank
come test a well. Among other things, it's a bank foreclosure and the
bank holding it might be perfectly happy to give a mortgage on it to
a credit worthy buyer. If not, plenty of foreclosed houses are sold
and I doubt the mortgage company is coming out to carefully inspect
the water situation. If the house can't get a CO, now that would be
a real problem.

"Pete C." wrote in message
. com...


If there isn't a fire hydrant within 200', or a suitably large pond that
is consistently full, then rates will be a bit higher, but you will
still get insurance generally. In the case of a pond it is common to
pre-install a suction pipe into the middle of the pond at an appropriate
depth with a standpipe and fitting at the edge of the pond for ready
connection to the pumper truck.

I am out in the country and there is not a hydrant within a mile or more.
Also no pond close by either. I did not have any problem getting fire
insurance. Not sure what my well puts out, but still with a 1 inch pipe it
is not going to do much for a fire.

Ohioguy wrote, on Sat, 02 Aug 2014 18:01:41 -0400:

Would it be possible to get a large poly tank - say 2,000 gallon, and
have a small pump trickle the water up into that so that we would always
have a week or more of water stored up for future use?

Out here, in Northern California, where it won't rain for 9 or so months
out of the year, we all have wells that are, on average four to five
hundred feet deep - and the code is that we need 15,000 gallons of
tank water, 10,000 of which is reserved for fire suppression.

One of my neighbors, who recently ran out of water, just drilled a new
well of 520 feet, which is getting 18 gallons per minute, and which hit
water at 300 feet initially.

You didn't mention where you live, but there is a chance you can
just go deeper, but, it costs about $100 a foot to drill, so, you're
looking at doubling the price of the property (although $64K is practically
free as property prices go. Just the yearly tax alone on a typical
Silicon Valley California property in a few years equals that much).

So, since the land is practically free, your main cost is the
well, which is an improvement that will allow you to live there.
I say spend the $50K or so to dig a 500-foot well, and you'll be
perfectly happy.

plus generally you cant just drill a existing well deeper, so the 500 foot existing well needs to be replaced, you cant just make it deeper.....

certinally before purchase its a good idea to check on homeowners insurance, avaiblity of mortage, get a home inspection and do you due dilligence..... check with local well drillers, the local municipality etc etc....

there was a fellow trying to sell a home around pittsburgh that had no dependable water, the well had collapsed, and the sewer line was higher than the home.

the local government refused to issue a certificate of occupancy. years later it was still in court.

around here many municipalties have begun requiring a certificiate of occupancy at home resale time.

this after some fires in homes in poor condition

Ralph Mowery wrote, on Sun, 03 Aug 2014 20:03:39 -0400:

I am out in the country and there is not a hydrant within a mile or more.
Also no pond close by either. I did not have any problem getting fire
insurance. Not sure what my well puts out, but still with a 1 inch pipe it
is not going to do much for a fire.

Out here (Silicon Valley), *every* home that has a well, *must* have a
wharf hydrant, for the fire department. There are no exceptions.

One must also reserve enough water in tanks for the fire department.
The code is for 2/3 of the water (i.e., 10,000 gallons) to be reserved
solely for fire, with the 1/3 (i.e., 5,000 gallons) for the home.

I posted all the pertinent Santa Clara County fire department documents
in an associated thread already, so I won't back that up here (as it's
already backed up there).

DATE: 27, June 2014
TITLE: How to truck 1,000 gallons of potable water to a residence

NOTE: My well is 400 feet deep but my neighbor just drilled a 520 foot
well, which is producing 18 gallons a minute (which is far more than my
5 gallons a minute at 400 feet depth).

Pete C. wrote, on Sun, 03 Aug 2014 17:42:52 -0500:

There are plenty of places were low yield wells are common and pretty
much every house has one and a cistern system. They are rarely ever a
problem as long as the wells are reliable.

My well, is 400 feet deep (another one is less than that but
doesn't produce much) and it gets about 5 gallons a minute when
it can, but it runs out of water every few minutes.

Once it runs out, it shuts off for half an hour, and then it turns
on again, for about 10 to 15 minutes, and then runs out of water and the
cycle renews.

In the other thread titled:
How to truck 1,000 gallons of potable water to a residence
I shut the well pump for a few hours, and it went for about 20 minutes
before running out of water, averaging about 4 gallons a minute (more
in the beginning, less in the end).

The 300 foot shallow well shut off in less than two minutes, so, I'm
not counting its output.

This is Silicon Valley.

"Danny D." wrote in message
...
Pete C. wrote, on Sun, 03 Aug 2014 17:42:52 -0500:

There are plenty of places were low yield wells are common and pretty
much every house has one and a cistern system. They are rarely ever a
problem as long as the wells are reliable.

My well, is 400 feet deep (another one is less than that but
doesn't produce much) and it gets about 5 gallons a minute when
it can, but it runs out of water every few minutes.

Once it runs out, it shuts off for half an hour, and then it turns
on again, for about 10 to 15 minutes, and then runs out of water and the
cycle renews.

In the other thread titled:
How to truck 1,000 gallons of potable water to a residence
I shut the well pump for a few hours, and it went for about 20 minutes
before running out of water, averaging about 4 gallons a minute (more
in the beginning, less in the end).

The 300 foot shallow well shut off in less than two minutes, so, I'm
not counting its output.

This is Silicon Valley.


That is NOT Silicon Valley. The water table in the valley is relatively
shallow and there is plenty of water (due to recharge and imported water).

You are up in the hills, at about 1800+ feet. Whole different ballgame.

"Danny D." wrote in message
...
Ralph Mowery wrote, on Sun, 03 Aug 2014 20:03:39 -0400:

I am out in the country and there is not a hydrant within a mile or more.
Also no pond close by either. I did not have any problem getting fire
insurance. Not sure what my well puts out, but still with a 1 inch pipe
it
is not going to do much for a fire.

Out here (Silicon Valley), *every* home that has a well, *must* have a
wharf hydrant, for the fire department. There are no exceptions.

One must also reserve enough water in tanks for the fire department.
The code is for 2/3 of the water (i.e., 10,000 gallons) to be reserved
solely for fire, with the 1/3 (i.e., 5,000 gallons) for the home.

I posted all the pertinent Santa Clara County fire department documents
in an associated thread already, so I won't back that up here (as it's
already backed up there).

Guess it really depends on where you are at. I am on the east coast in NC
and sofar around here we usually have plenty of water within a few miles in
moat places in the area I am in.

I have never been to CA, but from what I understand there is always a water
shortage, or atleast almost every year so I can undestand the problem and
differant rules.

There was a fire in the county that needed lots of water so the fire
department put out a drop tank and several tanker trucks would go to pick up
water and go to the fire and dump it in a tank where a pumper truck would
put th ewater on the fire.

"Danny D." wrote in :

Ohioguy wrote, on Sat, 02 Aug 2014 18:01:41 -0400:

Would it be possible to get a large poly tank - say 2,000 gallon, and
have a small pump trickle the water up into that so that we would always
have a week or more of water stored up for future use?

Out here, in Northern California, where it won't rain for 9 or so months
out of the year, we all have wells that are, on average four to five
hundred feet deep - and the code is that we need 15,000 gallons of
tank water, 10,000 of which is reserved for fire suppression.

One of my neighbors, who recently ran out of water, just drilled a new
well of 520 feet, which is getting 18 gallons per minute, and which hit
water at 300 feet initially.

You didn't mention where you live,

True -- but since he calls himself "Ohioguy" I'd say Ohio is a good bet.

but there is a chance you can
just go deeper, but, it costs about $100 a foot to drill, so, you're
looking at doubling the price of the property (although $64K is practically
free as property prices go.

Not here in the Midwest, it's not.

Just the yearly tax alone on a typical
Silicon Valley California property in a few years equals that much).

Which is one of the many reasons that Midwesterners think anyone would have to be nuts to
want to live in Kalifornia... :-)

So, since the land is practically free, your main cost is the
well, which is an improvement that will allow you to live there.
I say spend the $50K or so to dig a 500-foot well, and you'll be
perfectly happy.

While this might be reasonable advice for a Kalifornia property, anywhere in the Midwest it's
just crazy talk.

trader_4 wrote:

I've bought and sold quite a few houses and I've never seen a bank
come test a well.

Nor would you see a bank perform a home inspection. But you would see any
commercial entity that finances a house require an inspection and that would
include testing the well.

Ralph Mowery wrote, on Sun, 03 Aug 2014 20:50:32 -0400:

I have never been to CA, but from what I understand there is always a water
shortage, or atleast almost every year so I can undestand the problem and
differant rules.

It sure is different here.

I'd bet, for example, in North Carolina, only a few houses burn at a time,
whereas, out here, from hundreds to thousands burn up at the same time.

I'm not sure why that's the case, but that's what happens.

It's weird.

Have you ever had five hundred houses burn there in NC for example, in
a single fire?

The Oakland fire of 1991 burned 3,354 single-family dwellings and 437 apartments
for example.

I'm not sure "why" California is so different than anywhere else.
Where else, in the US, do three thousand separate homes burn in a single fire?

Pico Rico wrote, on Sun, 03 Aug 2014 17:45:05 -0700:

That is NOT Silicon Valley. The water table in the valley is relatively
shallow and there is plenty of water (due to recharge and imported water).

You are up in the hills, at about 1800+ feet. Whole different ballgame.

You are correct. I'm a couple miles *from* the valley, but up in the hills.

I've never heard anyone *not* call it Silicon Valley though, but, from a
water perspective, it's hill and not valley floor.

"Danny D." wrote in
:

Ralph Mowery wrote, on Sun, 03 Aug 2014 20:50:32 -0400:

I have never been to CA, but from what I understand there is always a
water shortage, or atleast almost every year so I can undestand the
problem and differant rules.

It sure is different here.

I'd bet, for example, in North Carolina, only a few houses burn at a
time, whereas, out here, from hundreds to thousands burn up at the
same time.

Yep, that's what happens when you live in a desert.

"Danny D." wrote in news:lrmiq3$vho$1@dont-
email.me:

So, since the land is practically free, your main cost is the
well, which is an improvement that will allow you to live there.
I say spend the $50K or so to dig a 500-foot well, and you'll be
perfectly happy.



Or you can just take the $50k to a casino and save yourself a lot of time
and trouble.

Zaky Waky wrote in news:XnsA37F36B3764F6gmail9com@
216.151.153.167:

"Danny D." wrote in
:

Ralph Mowery wrote, on Sun, 03 Aug 2014 20:50:32 -0400:

I have never been to CA, but from what I understand there is always a
water shortage, or atleast almost every year so I can undestand the
problem and differant rules.

It sure is different here.

I'd bet, for example, in North Carolina, only a few houses burn at a
time, whereas, out here, from hundreds to thousands burn up at the
same time.

Yep, that's what happens when you live in a desert.

More to the point, that's what happens when you live in a state that prohibits homeowners
from clearing brush around their property because it might damage the habitat of some
mouse... never mind the fire risk to *human* habitat.