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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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What is the "property" I need to look for here? - stiffness of a sheet...
G'Day, I don't know what the correct property is I need to look for here... Basically I have a tabletop which supports a small lathe, and the tabletop is made of wood, and I'm replacing it with sheet steel. I'm sure there's a property that I can look up for the wood, and then use the number from that to compare to the sheet steel to make sure the thinner sheet steel will support the lathe in the same way without flexing. All other aspects of the design will be the same - spacing of support beams, size of tabletop, maounting location, etc. The lathe is a cantilevered design (Taig) If someone who is more familiar with the strength properties of materials can tell me what the property is I need to look for, I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Des |
#2
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What is the "property" I need to look for here? - stiffness ofa sheet...
In the spirit of RCM, I'll ignore your question and suggest an
alternative: why not just put the sheet steel on top of the wood? Bob |
#3
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What is the "property" I need to look for here? - stiffness ofa sheet...
Hello Bob,
Basically I'm trying to remove the timber, and reduce the weight - the "tabletop" is actually the top of a small shelf/ cabinet which holds the lathe. By making the tabletop steel, I can weld things to the top, and drill and tap fixtures as required - things I'd be less comfortable doing with wood underlay. I've got 4mm (just over 1/8") thick galvanised sheet that I plan on using to replace the 12mm MDF. If the properties says the 4mm isn't as "stiff" then I'll be putting some braces or something in - but I'm trying to reduce the weight since I'm adding other accessories such as VSD, taper turner, etc to the system. Des In the spirit of RCM, I'll ignore your question and suggest an alternative: why not just put the sheet steel on top of the wood? Bob |
#4
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What is the "property" I need to look for here? - stiffness ofa sheet...
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 12:25:58 +0000 (UTC), des bromilow
wrote: Hello Bob, Basically I'm trying to remove the timber, and reduce the weight - the "tabletop" is actually the top of a small shelf/ cabinet which holds the lathe. By making the tabletop steel, I can weld things to the top, and drill and tap fixtures as required - things I'd be less comfortable doing with wood underlay. I've got 4mm (just over 1/8") thick galvanised sheet that I plan on using to replace the 12mm MDF. If the properties says the 4mm isn't as "stiff" then I'll be putting some braces or something in - but I'm trying to reduce the weight since I'm adding other accessories such as VSD, taper turner, etc to the system. You're looking for the modulus of elasticity of the materials, AKA Young's modulus. All other variables held equal, deflection varies inversely with the cube of the thickness. So the modulus of the steel would have to be 27x (3x3x3) that of the MDF for equal stiffness. Damping is also something to consider. You may get more vibration with a thin steel sheet than with the MDF, even if the stiffness is the same. -- Ned Simmons |
#5
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What is the "property" I need to look for here? - stiffness of asheet...
On Jul 25, 5:02*am, des bromilow wrote:
I don't know what the correct property is I need to look for here... Basically I have a tabletop which supports a small lathe, and the tabletop is made of wood, and I'm replacing it with sheet steel. The lathe support is a substructure under the sheet, the sheet itself just has to hold random tools and swarf and capture any dripping coolant? A thin sheet won't be less 'floppy' than wood (will sag if loaded in the center). That's why corrugated, not flat, steel is used for roofing and such. Bending the edges of the sheet to form a lip will stiffen them a lot. That's how steel shelving gets its stiffness. |
#6
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What is the "property" I need to look for here? - stiffness of a sheet...
Hello whit3rd,
I was hoping that with a substantial thickness sheet, I could support the lathe, and taper turning attachment, motor bracket, and then still be able to support DTI bases, etc plus the swarf, tooling, etc I will be folding the edges for the drop tray aspect of it, and once I check the Young's modulus, I'll know if I need to add anything else under the tray. I figure the Taig and the motor way less than a chuck for a larger lathe, and the drip trays,e tc on them are thinner than my proposal, but I do like to understand what I'm doing... Thanks to you and Ned for the replies... Bob's question is certainly valid if all I was chasing was drip protection - it's the need to weld, drill and tap the tray which is forcing this change from timber to steel. Thanks all, Des On Jul 25, 5:02 am, des bromilow wrote: I don't know what the correct property is I need to look for here... Basically I have a tabletop which supports a small lathe, and the tabletop is made of wood, and I'm replacing it with sheet steel. The lathe support is a substructure under the sheet, the sheet itself just has to hold random tools and swarf and capture any dripping coolant? A thin sheet won't be less 'floppy' than wood (will sag if loaded in the center). That's why corrugated, not flat, steel is used for roofing and such. Bending the edges of the sheet to form a lip will stiffen them a lot. That's how steel shelving gets its stiffness. |
#7
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What is the "property" I need to look for here? - stiffness of a sheet...
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:24:56 +0000 (UTC), des bromilow
wrote: Hello whit3rd, I was hoping that with a substantial thickness sheet, I could support the lathe, and taper turning attachment, motor bracket, and then still be able to support DTI bases, etc plus the swarf, tooling, etc Then I would suggest at minumum, a nice sheet of 1/2" plate, if you cant find any 5/8" " plate. I will be folding the edges for the drop tray aspect of it, and once I check the Young's modulus, I'll know if I need to add anything else under the tray. I figure the Taig and the motor way less than a chuck for a larger lathe, and the drip trays,e tc on them are thinner than my proposal, but I do like to understand what I'm doing... Thanks to you and Ned for the replies... Bob's question is certainly valid if all I was chasing was drip protection - it's the need to weld, drill and tap the tray which is forcing this change from timber to steel. Thanks all, Des On Jul 25, 5:02 am, des bromilow wrote: I don't know what the correct property is I need to look for here... Basically I have a tabletop which supports a small lathe, and the tabletop is made of wood, and I'm replacing it with sheet steel. The lathe support is a substructure under the sheet, the sheet itself just has to hold random tools and swarf and capture any dripping coolant? A thin sheet won't be less 'floppy' than wood (will sag if loaded in the center). That's why corrugated, not flat, steel is used for roofing and such. Bending the edges of the sheet to form a lip will stiffen them a lot. That's how steel shelving gets its stiffness. One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid. Gunner Asch |
#8
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What is the "property" I need to look for here? - stiffness of asheet...
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 15:50:31 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:24:56 +0000 (UTC), des bromilow wrote: I was hoping that with a substantial thickness sheet, I could support the lathe, and taper turning attachment, motor bracket, and then still be able to support DTI bases, etc plus the swarf, tooling, etc Then I would suggest at minimum, a nice sheet of 1/2" plate, if you can't find any 5/8" plate. 0.5" steel plate would weigh about 20#/sq ft, so for example a 2' x 4' top would weigh 160#. Some 1"-thick composites like at the following links would be plenty stiff and weigh only 1.2# per sq ft. This stuff isn't expensive, it costs less than $10 per sq ft. http://www.portafab.com/aluminum_honeycomb_panels/alum_on_alum.shtml http://www.pacificpanels.com/GPpanel.html http://www.panelteccorp.com/html/stockpanels.html .... On Jul 25, 5:02 am, des bromilow wrote: .... I have a tabletop which supports a small lathe, and the tabletop is made of wood, and I'm replacing it with sheet steel. The lathe support is a substructure under the sheet, the sheet itself just has to hold random tools and swarf and capture any dripping coolant? .... If the tabletop is just holding tools as you suggest, I think 1/8" steel is thick enough for unsupported spans of a few inches -- eg could be supported by welded-on rails at 8"-12" intervals. If you are going to use the table for any heavy hammering, or if it's bigger than say 3'x4', go on up to 1/2" or 5/8" steel sheet like Gunner recommends, and put crossbars along the bottoms of the legs so you can move the table around with a $250 pallet jack. -- jiw |
#9
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What is the "property" I need to look for here? - stiffness of a sheet...
On 2010-07-25, des bromilow wrote:
G'Day, I don't know what the correct property is I need to look for here... Basically I have a tabletop which supports a small lathe, and the tabletop is made of wood, and I'm replacing it with sheet steel. [ ... ] The lathe is a cantilevered design (Taig) With that (the cantilevered mounting) -- I doubt that you will have to worry about flex as long as it is thick enough to support the lathe's weight without moving as you turn the cranks. Part of the question is how large is the table beyond the area of the lathe. The larger the area -- the thicker you need it to be. Another is whether the metal will be formed at the edge to make a large rim. If this is done, it adds to the stiffness significantly -- and you don't have to worry about cutting yourself or your clothes by rubbing against the edge. Or -- you could weld it to a steel frame all the way around. With other lathe designs (separate feet under the headstock and the tailstock) flexing of the top will twist the bed of the lathe and introduce errors, so you need to keep considering rigidity until you get down to a poured concrete floor. But a Taig is very forgiving. Good Luck, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
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