I have a 12 cubic foot frost free fridge (Camco Model CRT1200VLT-1) whose freezer isn't cold enough to keep meat frozen. This is one of those GE apartment size fridges where you have to take out the freezer floor to get to the evaporator, evaporator fan, defrost heater and defrost thermostat.

I can feel a draft in the freezer compartment, so I know the evaporator fan is running. On this fridge the defrost thermostat diverts power from the cold control to the defrost heater, so if the evaporator fan is running, then the cold control is calling for cold, the evaporator fan and compressor are getting power and therefore the fridge can't be stuck in defrost mode. The compressor sounds like it's running when I use a mechanic's stethoscope on it and the line between the compressor and the condesnor coil behind the fridge is hot to the touch. Still the freezer compartment isn't getting cold enough to freeze water or keep meat frozen.

I replaced the cold control, but that didn't do any good.

Until now, this fridge would make a loud knocking sound when the compressor stopped, presumably due to a broken suspension spring inside the compressor housing. Now, the compressor and evaporator fan seem to run continuously 24/7 except for defrost cycles.

I'm coming to the conclusion that the refrigerant must have leaked out of the sealed system on this fridge, and I need to buy a new fridge.

Is there anything I might be missing? Should I get an appliance repair tech in to measure the pressure drop across the compressor to see if that really is the problem, or have I covered all the bases already and proving that it's a lack of refrigerant is just a waste of money?

On 7/14/2014 3:25 PM, nestork wrote:
I have a 12 cubic foot frost free fridge (Camco Model CRT1200VLT-1)
whose freezer isn't cold enough to keep meat frozen. This is one of
those GE apartment size fridges where you have to take out the freezer
floor to get to the evaporator, evaporator fan, defrost heater and
defrost thermostat.

I can feel a draft in the freezer compartment, so I know the evaporator
fan is running. On this fridge the defrost thermostat diverts power
from the cold control to the defrost heater, so if the evaporator fan is
running, then the cold control is calling for cold, the evaporator fan
and compressor are getting power and therefore the fridge can't be stuck
in defrost mode. The compressor sounds like it's running when I use a
mechanic's stethoscope on it and the line between the compressor and the
condesnor coil behind the fridge is hot to the touch. Still the freezer
compartment isn't getting cold enough to freeze water or keep meat
frozen.

I replaced the cold control, but that didn't do any good.

Until now, this fridge would make a loud knocking sound when the
compressor stopped, presumably due to a broken suspension spring inside
the compressor housing. Now, the compressor and evaporator fan seem to
run continuously 24/7 except for defrost cycles.

I'm coming to the conclusion that the refrigerant must have leaked out
of the sealed system on this fridge, and I need to buy a new fridge.

Is there anything I might be missing? Should I get an appliance repair
tech in to measure the pressure drop across the compressor to see if
that really is the problem, or have I covered all the bases already and
proving that it's a lack of refrigerant is just a waste of money?



Is the condensor behind the fridge? Is there a bunch
of horizontal back and forth tube, and wires that go
up and down?

If this is the case, the top 1/3 or 1/2 of this
assembly should be hot when the compressor is running.

If not, then very likely low freon. Please write back
and ask questions if you wish.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

nestork wrote:
I have a 12 cubic foot frost free fridge (Camco Model CRT1200VLT-1)
whose freezer isn't cold enough to keep meat frozen. This is one of
those GE apartment size fridges where you have to take out the freezer
floor to get to the evaporator, evaporator fan, defrost heater and
defrost thermostat.

I can feel a draft in the freezer compartment, so I know the
evaporator fan is running. On this fridge the defrost thermostat
diverts power from the cold control to the defrost heater, so if the
evaporator fan is running, then the cold control is calling for cold,
the evaporator fan and compressor are getting power and therefore the
fridge can't be stuck in defrost mode. The compressor sounds like
it's running when I use a mechanic's stethoscope on it and the line
between the compressor and the condesnor coil behind the fridge is
hot to the touch. Still the freezer compartment isn't getting cold
enough to freeze water or keep meat frozen.

I replaced the cold control, but that didn't do any good.

Until now, this fridge would make a loud knocking sound when the
compressor stopped, presumably due to a broken suspension spring
inside the compressor housing. Now, the compressor and evaporator
fan seem to run continuously 24/7 except for defrost cycles.

I'm coming to the conclusion that the refrigerant must have leaked out
of the sealed system on this fridge, and I need to buy a new fridge.

Is there anything I might be missing? Should I get an appliance
repair tech in to measure the pressure drop across the compressor to
see if that really is the problem, or have I covered all the bases
already and proving that it's a lack of refrigerant is just a waste
of money?

Have you tried defrosting it for a couple days, to make sure the freezer coils
aren't just 1 block of ice?

On Mon, 14 Jul 2014 21:25:09 +0200, nestork
wrote:


Is there anything I might be missing? Should I get an appliance repair
tech in to measure the pressure drop across the compressor to see if
that really is the problem, or have I covered all the bases already and
proving that it's a lack of refrigerant is just a waste of money?

If you get a tech, don't back-seat drive and let him do all the tests he
wants to figure out the problem. If he's slowing down on the testing and
hasn't done your pressure drop thing, ask him to do it, if you still
want it done.

Hi again.

This fridge is equipped with a test plug.

According to the fridge's wiring diagram, measuring the resistance between the orange wire of the test plug and the blue wire going to the defrost timer will measure the resistance across the defrost heater. I did that and measured 38.7 ohms. The factory spec is between 34.6 and 37.5, so it's a little out of range, but at least I know that the defrost heater is in one piece.

According to the fridge's wiring diagram, measuring for continuity between the orange wire of the test plug and the brown wire going to the defrost timer will determine whether the defrost thermostat is making the circuit to the defrost heater or breaking the circuit to the defrost heater. I did that and got no continuity through the defrost thermostat. So, the defrost thermostat is breaking the continuity to the defrost heater.

That means that the defrost heater is good, but the defrost thermostat isn't allowing any current through that heater, so I still could have a block of ice around the evaporator coil.

In this case, a good assessment would be to unplug the fridge for a few days to allow that ice to melt, and then fire up the fridge again. If it freezes water initially, but then the freezer compartment warms up, then I've got good evidence to believe the defrost thermostat is on the fritz and preventing the defrost heater from working.

Thanks for everyone's input.

On 7/14/2014 5:41 PM, Bob F wrote:

Have you tried defrosting it for a
couple days, to make sure the freezer coils
aren't just 1 block of ice?



If the evap is frosted, Nestork would see
snow on the back or bottom, wherever the
evaporator is.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 7/14/2014 7:16 PM, nestork wrote:

According to the fridge's wiring diagram, measuring for continuity
between the orange wire of the test plug and the brown wire going to the
defrost timer will determine whether the defrost thermostat is making
the circuit to the defrost heater or breaking the circuit to the defrost
heater. I did that and got no continuity through the defrost
thermostat. So, the defrost thermostat is breaking the continuity to
the defrost heater.

Termination thermostat closes about 25F (or colder)
and opens about 45F or warmer. Was the freezer cold
when you tested?

Do you see snow on the panel that covers the evaporator?


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Well, it wasn't as cold as it should be, but manually defrosting the evaporator coils and putting the fridge back into operation with clean evaporator coils will at least tell me whether excessive ice accumulation on the evaporator coils was the problem before.

No, not at all. In this fridge, the evaporator coil is located UNDER the freezer floor. To remove that freezer floor, I have to remove both the freezer compartment door and the fridge fresh food compartment door. I'm concerned that by the time I do all that, the frost would have melted off the evaporator. I'm thinking the best approach would be to let the fridge defrost manually a second time, and then take the freezer floor out, and then plug the fridge back in to see what the evaporator frost pattern does.

Since my last post, I defrosted the fridge manually by unplugging it, propping the fridge and freezer doors open, directing the melt water tube into a large shallow pan on the floor behind the fridge and letting any frost on the evaporator melt.

I collected about a quart of water, which to me means that the evaporator was pretty iced up.

Once I was convinced that the evaporator coils were fully defrosted, I put a plastic cup of water (covered by a jar lid) in the freezer compartment and plugged the fridge back in. This test will determine whether the fridge works properly when the evaporator coils ARE NOT frosted up. If that water still doesn't freeze, then I'll look at the frost pattern on the evaporator to see if it indicates a low refrigerant charge. If the water does freeze, then I'm convinced the problem is excessive frost accumulation on the evaporator coils, and I'm gonna blame the DTS for that cuz the defrost heater shows continuity.

If replacing the defrost termination switch still doesn't solve the problem, and the evaporator is frosted up along it's full length so it's not a weak refrigerant charge, then I'm willing to call in an appliance service tech to figure out what's wrong. I figure that if I go this far and still can't solve the problem, then I'm prepared to pay for a service call. For 99% of appliance problems, going as far as I have will have determined the cause of the problem and the solution. I'm willing to pay for that remaining 1 percent that I can't solve myself.

On this fridge, I have to remove the fridge and freezer compartment doors to remove the freezer compartment floor. The evaporator is under the freezer compartment floor. I have to bend the hard plastic freezer floor to get it out of the freezer compartment. So, I'll let the fridge fully defrost a second time so that the plastic I'm bending won't break. Then I'll remove the freezer floor and plug the fridge back in to see how the frost forms on the evaporator.

On 7/15/2014 7:16 PM, nestork wrote:
'Stormin Mormon[_10_ Wrote:
Do you see snow on the panel that covers the evaporator?


No, not at all. In this fridge, the evaporator coil is located UNDER
the freezer floor. To remove that freezer floor, I have to remove both
the freezer compartment door and the fridge fresh food compartment
door.
I will do that with the fridge running so as to preserve the frost
pattern on the evaporator coil.



I defrosted the fridge manually by unplugging it, propping the fridge
and freezer doors open, directing the melt water tube into a large
shallow pan on the floor behind the fridge and letting any frost on the
evaporator melt.

I collected about a quart of water, which to me means that the
evaporator was pretty iced up.

Once I was convinced that the evaporator coils were fully defrosted, I
put a plastic cup of water (covered by a jar lid) in the freezer
compartment and plugged the fridge back in. This test will determine
whether the fridge works properly when the evaporator coils ARE NOT
frosted up. If that water still doesn't freeze, then I'll look at the
frost pattern on the evaporator to see if it indicates a low refrigerant
charge. If the water does freeze, then I'm convinced the problem is
excessive frost accumulation on the evaporator coils, and I'm gonna
blame the DTS for that cuz the defrost heater shows continuity.

If replacing the defrost termination switch still doesn't solve the
problem, and the evaporator is frosted up along it's full length so it's
not a weak refrigerant charge, then I'm willing to call in an appliance
service tech to figure out what's wrong. I figure that if I go this far
and still can't solve the problem, then I'm prepared to pay for a
service call. For 99% of appliance problems, going as far as I have
will have determined the cause of the problem and the solution. I'm
willing to pay for that remaining 1 percent that I can't solve myself.

On this fridge, I have to remove the fridge and freezer compartment
doors to remove the freezer compartment floor. The evaporator is under
the freezer compartment floor. I have to bend the hard plastic freezer
floor to get it out of the freezer compartment. So, I'll let the fridge
fully defrost a second time so that the plastic I'm bending won't break.
Then I'll remove the freezer floor and plug the fridge back in to see
how the frost forms on the evaporator.




Looking forward to the next exciting installment.
Sounds like you're closer to diagnosis.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Monday, July 14, 2014 7:16:19 PM UTC-4, nestork wrote:
Hi again.



This fridge is equipped with a test plug.



According to the fridge's wiring diagram, measuring the resistance

between the orange wire of the test plug and the blue wire going to the

defrost timer will measure the resistance across the defrost heater. I

did that and measured 38.7 ohms. The factory spec is between 34.6 and

37.5, so it's a little out of range, but at least I know that the

defrost heater is in one piece.



According to the fridge's wiring diagram, measuring for continuity

between the orange wire of the test plug and the brown wire going to the

defrost timer will determine whether the defrost thermostat is making

the circuit to the defrost heater or breaking the circuit to the defrost

heater. I did that and got no continuity through the defrost

thermostat. So, the defrost thermostat is breaking the continuity to

the defrost heater.



That means that the defrost heater is good, but the defrost thermostat

isn't allowing any current through that heater, so I still could have a

block of ice around the evaporator coil.




Based on what you describe, it sounds to me all you're seeing is that
the defrost timer isn't at the point in time when it closes the switch
to turn the heat on. Which is what you'd expect to see, because it
only occurs a very small percentage of the time.

Well, after manually defrosting the fridge by unplugging it and leaving it to warm up for a few days, I plugged the fridge in and left a plastic cup of water in the freezer compartment overnight. Normally, that's long enough to freeze the water into a solid block of ice.

But, the water didn't freeze.

And, apart from defrosting itself once every 20 hours or so, the compressor and evaporator fan were running continuously overnight so far as I can tell.

My next step is to take the freezer floor out of the fridge so I can see the evaporator coils and how frost accumulates on them. At this point I'm expecting to see proof of a low freon charge, and am thinking I'm going to be buying a new fridge shortly.

I'll leave the fridge running with the water in a plastic glass in the freezer for another day or two just to be certain that it's not gonna freeze. Then I'll take the freezer floor out and see what's happening at the evaporator coil.

On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 11:24:21 AM UTC-4, nestork wrote:
Well, after manually defrosting the fridge by unplugging it and leaving

it to warm up for a few days, I plugged the fridge in and left a plastic

cup of water in the freezer compartment overnight. Normally, that's

long enough to freeze the water into a solid block of ice.



But, the water didn't freeze.



And, apart from defrosting itself once every 20 hours or so, the

compressor and evaporator fan were running continuously overnight so far

as I can tell.



My next step is to take the freezer floor out of the fridge so I can see

the evaporator coils and how frost accumulates on them. At this point

I'm expecting to see proof of a low freon charge, and am thinking I'm

going to be buying a new fridge shortly.



Why bother? If the compressor is running constantly, the fan in the
freezer is working, and it's been defrosted so it's not blocked by
ice, why do you need to see the coils? It's obviously a major failure
and it's not cooling.







I'll leave the fridge running with the water in a plastic glass in the

freezer for another day or two just to be certain that it's not gonna

freeze.

What good would it be if it finally froze after two days? If the freezer
can't freeze over night, it's screwed.


Then I'll take the freezer floor out and see what's happening

at the evaporator coil.









--

nestork

On 7/16/2014 11:24 AM, nestork wrote:

Well, after manually defrosting the fridge by unplugging it and leaving
it to warm up for a few days, I plugged the fridge in and left a plastic
cup of water in the freezer compartment overnight. Normally, that's
long enough to freeze the water into a solid block of ice.

But, the water didn't freeze.

And, apart from defrosting itself once every 20 hours or so, the
compressor and evaporator fan were running continuously overnight so far
as I can tell.

My next step is to take the freezer floor out of the fridge so I can see
the evaporator coils and how frost accumulates on them. At this point
I'm expecting to see proof of a low freon charge, and am thinking I'm
going to be buying a new fridge shortly.

I'll leave the fridge running with the water in a plastic glass in the
freezer for another day or two just to be certain that it's not gonna
freeze. Then I'll take the freezer floor out and see what's happening
at the evaporator coil.




From the descrip so far, sure sounds like low
refrigerant charge "freon".

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 09:42:18 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:




And, apart from defrosting itself once every 20 hours or so, the

compressor and evaporator fan were running continuously overnight so far

as I can tell.



My next step is to take the freezer floor out of the fridge so I can see

the evaporator coils and how frost accumulates on them. At this point

I'm expecting to see proof of a low freon charge, and am thinking I'm

going to be buying a new fridge shortly.



Why bother? If the compressor is running constantly, the fan in the
freezer is working, and it's been defrosted so it's not blocked by
ice, why do you need to see the coils? It's obviously a major failure
and it's not cooling.


If the fan is blowing air, you can feel where it is coming out. If
no air, check the coil. If air is passing, the coil is not frozen and
the unit is probably trash, not worth fixing.

On 7/16/2014 1:57 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
If the fan is blowing air, you can feel where it is coming out. If
no air, check the coil. If air is passing, the coil is not frozen and
the unit is probably trash, not worth fixing.


Low refrigerant charge, easy enough to fix.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:48:58 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/16/2014 1:57 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

If the fan is blowing air, you can feel where it is coming out. If

no air, check the coil. If air is passing, the coil is not frozen and

the unit is probably trash, not worth fixing.





Low refrigerant charge, easy enough to fix.



That would seem to depend on why the refrigerant is gone.
Unless something has failed refrigerant doesn't just disappear.

On 7/16/2014 4:54 PM, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 2:48:58 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Low refrigerant charge, easy enough to fix.

That would seem to depend on why the refrigerant is gone.
Unless something has failed refrigerant doesn't just disappear.


Add some, and see how long it lasts. If it's a slow leak,
lasts year or more.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 7/16/2014 2:48 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/16/2014 1:57 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
If the fan is blowing air, you can feel where it is coming out. If
no air, check the coil. If air is passing, the coil is not frozen and
the unit is probably trash, not worth fixing.


Low refrigerant charge, easy enough to fix.



Easy for you. Call a pro and it will be $300.

On 7/16/2014 9:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Low refrigerant charge, easy enough to fix.



Easy for you. Call a pro and it will be $300.

I'd be curious to hear from folks who had
refrigerant "freon" added to refrigerator.
what did it cost? I'm very possibly far too
cheap.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin:

Here in Canada, refrigerants are treated like toxic waste. You have to have a license to work on AC and refrigeration systems in order to buy refrigerants, and even then you have to meticulously document what happened to the refrigerants you removed from equipment. You can't just buy a piercing valve and "fill er up" like you could in the 1980's. If I have a refrigerant leak, the service tech would have to evacuate the remaining refrigerant in the fridge, find the leak and fix it, re-evacuate the refrigeration lines in the fridge, and then add new refrigerant. The cost for labour is roughly $300 to $400, and any parts (like a new compressor) would be on top of that. It makes more economic sense to buy a new fridge.

Trader:
You're wondering why I want to bother seeing how the frost builds up on the evaporator, and why I just don't chuck the fridge?

It's because I'm old enough to have been wrong in my assumptions more than once, and I don't want to be wrong on this fridge cuz a new fridge will cost me about $400. If I can see that the frost isn't forming uniformly over the whole evaporator coil, then I know it's a weak refrigerant charge, and I have no hesitation to salvage old parts from the fridge and phone a metal salvage company to pick up that fridge. However, I don't feel comfortable throwing the fridge away unless and until I see how the frost accumulates on the evaporator coil.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/16/2014 2:48 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/16/2014 1:57 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
If the fan is blowing air, you can feel where it is coming out. If
no air, check the coil. If air is passing, the coil is not frozen and
the unit is probably trash, not worth fixing.


Low refrigerant charge, easy enough to fix.



Easy for you. Call a pro and it will be $300.
Hi,
For 300.00, OP can buy new one same size, I am sure.

On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 21:52:38 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 7/16/2014 9:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Low refrigerant charge, easy enough to fix.



Easy for you. Call a pro and it will be $300.

I'd be curious to hear from folks who had
refrigerant "freon" added to refrigerator.
what did it cost? I'm very possibly far too
cheap.


Local HVAC shop is $120 to walk through the door.

On 7/16/2014 10:48 PM, nestork wrote:

Stormin:

Here in Canada, refrigerants are treated like toxic waste. You have to
have a license to work on AC and refrigeration systems in order to buy
refrigerants, and even then you have to meticulously document what
happened to the refrigerants you removed from equipment. You can't just
buy a piercing valve and "fill er up" like you could in the 1980's. If
I have a refrigerant leak, the service tech would have to evacuate the
remaining refrigerant in the fridge, find the leak and fix it,
re-evacuate the refrigeration lines in the fridge, and then add new
refrigerant. The cost for labour is roughly $300 to $400, and any parts
(like a new compressor) would be on top of that. It makes more economic
sense to buy a new fridge.

CY: The US has the same regulations. Or some what
similar. When I got my EPA card, we were told that
if the system has less than 50 pounds of refrigerant,
it's legal to keep topping it off. Might be expensive
and impractical, but it's legal. For household refrig,
I don't have any moral problem with adding a couple
ounces. I can imagine that many techs would want to go
the recovery and leak check route.

Trader:
You're wondering why I want to bother seeing how the frost builds up on
the evaporator, and why I just don't chuck the fridge?

It's because I'm old enough to have been wrong in my assumptions more
than once, and I don't want to be wrong on this fridge cuz a new fridge
will cost me about $400. If I can see that the frost isn't forming
uniformly over the whole evaporator coil, then I know it's a weak
refrigerant charge, and I have no hesitation to salvage old parts from
the fridge and phone a metal salvage company to pick up that fridge.
However, I don't feel comfortable throwing the fridge away unless and
until I see how the frost accumulates on the evaporator coil.


CY: You can also check for heat on the condenser
coils, that's a good indication of charge.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 7/17/2014 6:11 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I'd be curious to hear from folks who had
refrigerant "freon" added to refrigerator.
what did it cost? I'm very possibly far too
cheap.


Local HVAC shop is $120 to walk through the door.


Sounds a bit higher than myself. Maybe I'm
out of touch with the modern era, or some
thing?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

In my area appliance repair folks charge $100 just to walk in the front
door and tell you it is broken. The actual repair and parts are extra.
At that cost most people just buy a new appliance which now a days seem
to last no more than 5 years.

On 7/17/2014 7:45 AM, Steve Stone wrote:
In my area appliance repair folks charge $100 just to walk in the front
door and tell you it is broken. The actual repair and parts are extra.
At that cost most people just buy a new appliance which now a days seem
to last no more than 5 years.

I do remember a couple years ago, I looked at a friend's
upright freezer. The last repair guy put a thermometer in
it and told em to "keep an eye on it". I found it low on
refrigerant, and juiced it up for them.

What a shame, appliances don't last very long.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Well, after a full two days of operating continuously, the plastic cup of water in the freezer compartment still isn't frozen.

I'll start on taking the freezer floor and styrofoam evaporator cover off this evening (hopefully). Then I'll wait for any remaining frost on the evaporator to melt and plug the fridge back in. I'm expecting to see a half frosted evaporator coil...

... but life is full of surprises.

On 7/17/2014 8:36 AM, nestork wrote:
Well, after a full two days of operating continuously, the plastic cup
of water in the freezer compartment still isn't frozen.

I'll start on taking the freezer floor and styrofoam evaporator cover
off this evening (hopefully). Then I'll wait for any remaining frost on
the evaporator to melt and plug the fridge back in. I'm expecting to
see a half frosted evaporator coil...

.. but life is full of surprises.

From your descrip so far, I'd dare to guess 1/4 frosted
evaporator.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Wednesday, July 16, 2014 10:48:54 PM UTC-4, nestork wrote:
'Stormin Mormon[_10_ Wrote:

;3260495']

I'd be curious to hear from folks who had

refrigerant "freon" added to refrigerator.

what did it cost? I'm very possibly far too

cheap.





Stormin:



Here in Canada, refrigerants are treated like toxic waste. You have to

have a license to work on AC and refrigeration systems in order to buy

refrigerants, and even then you have to meticulously document what

happened to the refrigerants you removed from equipment. You can't just

buy a piercing valve and "fill er up" like you could in the 1980's. If

I have a refrigerant leak, the service tech would have to evacuate the

remaining refrigerant in the fridge, find the leak and fix it,

re-evacuate the refrigeration lines in the fridge, and then add new

refrigerant. The cost for labour is roughly $300 to $400, and any parts

(like a new compressor) would be on top of that. It makes more economic

sense to buy a new fridge.



Trader:

You're wondering why I want to bother seeing how the frost builds up on

the evaporator, and why I just don't chuck the fridge?



It's because I'm old enough to have been wrong in my assumptions more

than once, and I don't want to be wrong on this fridge cuz a new fridge

will cost me about $400. If I can see that the frost isn't forming

uniformly over the whole evaporator coil, then I know it's a weak

refrigerant charge, and I have no hesitation to salvage old parts from

the fridge and phone a metal salvage company to pick up that fridge.

However, I don't feel comfortable throwing the fridge away unless and

until I see how the frost accumulates on the evaporator coil.



Your free to satisfy your curiosity, but I don't see anything
probative to be gained by seeing the coils. You know the compressor
is running continuously, the internal fan is running and air is
coming out. You can feel or measure the temperature of the air coming out.

I don't think it's physically possible for that condition to
exist, without something being wrong with the refrigeration system
and the coils not getting cold. The only possible way might be for
the defrost heater to be stuck on, but you have access to it's wiring
and could disable it. If anyone has seen a fridge with the conditions
you have, where the coils were actually getting cold, I'd like to hear
what it was.......

On 7/17/2014 9:33 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Your free to satisfy your curiosity, but I don't see anything
probative to be gained by seeing the coils. You know the compressor
is running continuously, the internal fan is running and air is
coming out. You can feel or measure the temperature of the air coming out.

I don't think it's physically possible for that condition to
exist, without something being wrong with the refrigeration system
and the coils not getting cold. The only possible way might be for
the defrost heater to be stuck on, but you have access to it's wiring
and could disable it. If anyone has seen a fridge with the conditions
you have, where the coils were actually getting cold, I'd like to hear
what it was.......


Based on the symptoms reported, I concur. Sure seems
a shame to scrap an otherwise good refrig because it
needs a couple ounces of refrigerant.

If the tire on your car was soft, would you remove
and discard the tire, rim, valve stem, etc?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Thursday, July 17, 2014 9:46:24 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/17/2014 9:33 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Your free to satisfy your curiosity, but I don't see anything

probative to be gained by seeing the coils. You know the compressor

is running continuously, the internal fan is running and air is

coming out. You can feel or measure the temperature of the air coming out.



I don't think it's physically possible for that condition to

exist, without something being wrong with the refrigeration system

and the coils not getting cold. The only possible way might be for

the defrost heater to be stuck on, but you have access to it's wiring

and could disable it. If anyone has seen a fridge with the conditions

you have, where the coils were actually getting cold, I'd like to hear

what it was.......





Based on the symptoms reported, I concur. Sure seems

a shame to scrap an otherwise good refrig because it

needs a couple ounces of refrigerant.


The problems are that if it does need refigerant, then:

A - there must be a leak somewhere that needs to be investigated/fixed

B - Unless you have the skills, tools, supplies to do A, the cost of A,
or just getting a service guy in the door isn't
worth it when it's an old fridge and the OP says a replacement one
costs $400 new.



If the tire on your car was soft, would you remove

and discard the tire, rim, valve stem, etc?


Of course not. But the cost of getting a leaking tire fixed is what?
$20? You can also diagnose it, fix it yourself for a few bucks. You
can't do that with the refrigerant portion of a fridge.

Also factor in that a new refrigerator typically uses half the energy
that a 25 year old one does, which could save $75 - $100 a year, and
the choice becomes obvious.

On 7/17/2014 10:28 AM, trader_4 wrote:
Based on the symptoms reported, I concur. Sure seems
a shame to scrap an otherwise good refrig because it
needs a couple ounces of refrigerant.


The problems are that if it does need refigerant, then:

A - there must be a leak somewhere that needs to be investigated/fixed
CY: Unless law changed, units having less than 50 pounds
refrigerant don't need to be repaired.


B - Unless you have the skills, tools, supplies to do A, the cost of A,
or just getting a service guy in the door isn't
worth it when it's an old fridge and the OP says a replacement one
costs $400 new.
CY: That's maybe true for Canada, but I work a
bit cheaper in NY.




If the tire on your car was soft, would you remove

and discard the tire, rim, valve stem, etc?


Of course not. But the cost of getting a leaking tire fixed is what?
$20? You can also diagnose it, fix it yourself for a few bucks. You
can't do that with the refrigerant portion of a fridge.
CY: As a result of government over regulation.


Also factor in that a new refrigerator typically uses half the energy
that a 25 year old one does, which could save $75 - $100 a year, and
the choice becomes obvious.

CY: Who says his refrig is that old?

On Thursday, July 17, 2014 10:35:46 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/17/2014 10:28 AM, trader_4 wrote:

Based on the symptoms reported, I concur. Sure seems

a shame to scrap an otherwise good refrig because it

needs a couple ounces of refrigerant.





The problems are that if it does need refigerant, then:



A - there must be a leak somewhere that needs to be investigated/fixed

CY: Unless law changed, units having less than 50 pounds

refrigerant don't need to be repaired.


So, it doesn't have to be at least investigated? You just pump
in more refrigerant without determining what may be leaking, the
size of the leak? If you did that, put in some, charged $150 and
then 2 weeks later the fridge isn't working and the customer wants
their money back, then what?









B - Unless you have the skills, tools, supplies to do A, the cost of A,

or just getting a service guy in the door isn't

worth it when it's an old fridge and the OP says a replacement one

costs $400 new.

CY: That's maybe true for Canada, but I work a

bit cheaper in NY.



IDK what you charge in NY, but like others here, it's typically
min $100 to get an appliance service guy out. And that's before
any charges for adding refrigerant, etc.



Also factor in that a new refrigerator typically uses half the energy

that a 25 year old one does, which could save $75 - $100 a year, and

the choice becomes obvious.



CY: Who says his refrig is that old?

You're right, he hasn't said how old it is, I'm just guessing the age.
Even if it's just a few years old though, if a new one is just $400,
given the *mimimun* possible problem, the cost of a service call
to find out for sure what's wrong, etc, the economics here say to junk
it. The one thing that might change that would be if it's still under
warranty. Even then, if just the compressor is under warranty, not the
whole thing, it's probably still not worth it.

On 7/17/2014 11:45 AM, trader_4 wrote:

CY: Unless law changed, units having less than 50 pounds
refrigerant don't need to be repaired.


So, it doesn't have to be at least investigated? You just pump
in more refrigerant without determining what may be leaking, the
size of the leak? If you did that, put in some, charged $150 and
then 2 weeks later the fridge isn't working and the customer wants
their money back, then what?

CY: Advise customer before filling, no way to
know how long it will last.


CY: That's maybe true for Canada, but I work a
bit cheaper in NY.



IDK what you charge in NY, but like others here, it's typically
min $100 to get an appliance service guy out. And that's before
any charges for adding refrigerant, etc.

CY: Thanks, that's good to know.


CY: Who says his refrig is that old?

You're right, he hasn't said how old it is, I'm just guessing the age.
Even if it's just a few years old though, if a new one is just $400,
given the *mimimun* possible problem, the cost of a service call
to find out for sure what's wrong, etc, the economics here say to junk
it. The one thing that might change that would be if it's still under
warranty. Even then, if just the compressor is under warranty, not the
whole thing, it's probably still not worth it.


CY: Now, that opens an idea. If the Nestork unit
is less than 5 years old, might be on warranty.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 7/17/2014 12:45 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:


CY: Now, that opens an idea. If the Nestork unit
is less than 5 years old, might be on warranty.


Many are now only 1 year on the sealed system. Times have changed.

On 7/17/2014 7:57 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/17/2014 12:45 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:


CY: Now, that opens an idea. If the Nestork unit
is less than 5 years old, might be on warranty.


Many are now only 1 year on the sealed
system. Times have changed.

Didn't know that. Yes, that's a change.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

The fridges were all bought in July of 2000, so I expect the warranty on the sealed system would have expired by now.

But, I'll ask just to be sure.

On 7/17/2014 10:32 PM, nestork wrote:
The fridges were all bought in July of 2000, so I expect the warranty on
the sealed system would have expired by now.

But, I'll ask just to be sure.




The owners manuals I've read over the years, typically
five years warranty on "sealed system".

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 7/18/2014 6:31 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 7/17/2014 10:32 PM, nestork wrote:
The fridges were all bought in July of 2000, so I expect the warranty on
the sealed system would have expired by now.

But, I'll ask just to be sure.




The owners manuals I've read over the years, typically
five years warranty on "sealed system".


No longer on most.

From the $2000 Frigidaire manual
Your appliance is covered by a one year limited warranty. For one year
from your original date of
purchase, Electrolux will pay all costs for repairing or replacing any
parts of this appliance that prove
to be defective in materials or workmanship when such appliance is
installed, used and maintained
in accordance with the provided instructions.

Maybe if you spent more, say a $3000 Whirpool. Nope.

For one year from the date of purchase, when this major appliance is
operated and maintained according to instructions attached to or
furnished with the product, Whirlpool Corporation or Whirlpool Canada LP
(hereafter “Whirlpool”) will pay for Factory Specified Parts
and repair labor to correct defects in materials or workmanship that
existed when this major appliance was purchased. Service must be
provided by a Whirlpool designated service company. YOUR SOLE AND
EXCLUSIVE REMEDY UNDER THIS LIMITED WARRANTY
SHALL BE PRODUCT REPAIR AS PROVIDED HEREIN. This limited warranty is
valid only in the United States or Canada and applies
only when the major appliance is used in the country in which it was
purchased. Proof of original purchase date is required to obtain
service under this limited warranty.

But wait, you have them Krazy Koreans
LG is not so bad
1 Year Parts and Labor, 7 Years on the Sealed System, 10 Years on Linear
Compressor

Well, this is what my evaporator looks like after about 48 hours of continuous operation with no defrost cycles. I skipped over the defrost cycles by manually advancing the defrost timer on the fridge.

http://users.usinternet.com/nkelebay...r/Fridge-2.jpg

The evaporator coil has a total of 40 loops; 20 in the front half and 20 in the rear half. There's frost formed on the first 7 coils, and the rest are bare.

Me thinks it's time for a new fridge.