On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 09:13:32 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote in

|I have been using the little red envelopes for years, but recently got
curious about streaming instead. Anybody use that? Satisfied? Prefer to
red envelopes?
|

I get the DVD service and love it. I still don't
know how they can afford such cheap prices,
given Hollywood royalty costs.

+1 on that. Also, I've read that the streaming movie selection is
pathetic compared to the DVD selection. I assuming that NetFlix is
pushing streaming so it can get away from postage; but I would rather
pay more and keep the DVDs.

I had a chance awhile back to check out Netflix
streaming service and was unimpressed. I didn't
recognize the movies listed on the front page. When
I searched for a few things I might be interested in,
they weren't there.

I've read other complaints like that.

--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On 4/22/2014 12:52 PM, CRNG wrote:
On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 09:13:32 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote in

|I have been using the little red envelopes for years, but recently got
curious about streaming instead. Anybody use that? Satisfied? Prefer to
red envelopes?
|

I get the DVD service and love it. I still don't
know how they can afford such cheap prices,
given Hollywood royalty costs.

+1 on that. Also, I've read that the streaming movie selection is
pathetic compared to the DVD selection. I assuming that NetFlix is
pushing streaming so it can get away from postage; but I would rather
pay more and keep the DVDs.

I had a chance awhile back to check out Netflix
streaming service and was unimpressed. I didn't
recognize the movies listed on the front page. When
I searched for a few things I might be interested in,
they weren't there.

I've read other complaints like that.


We've had Netflix streaming for along time. The movie selection isn't
bad but it isn't great. It's well worth the $9/mth. There are some
really great series:

Lillyhammer, Breaking Bad, Rectify, and a bunch of others.

Streaming Netflix can turn you into a couch potato if you let it.
Another good streaming video provider is Amazon Prime and with it you
get free 2 day shipping for items bought on Amazon. It is one of the
best deals out there. If I had to chose one or the other I'd take Amazon
Prime.

Now we just have a HDTV antenna and the two streaming video services.

"Crackle" is free and worth looking into too.

http://www.crackle.com/

Nah....Netflix's a great deal but I heard today they are raising the
price for new subscribers.

posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 18:15:34 -0500, gonjah wrote:


We've had Netflix streaming for along time. The movie selection isn't
bad but it isn't great. It's well worth the $9/mth. There are some
really great series:

Lillyhammer, Breaking Bad, Rectify, and a bunch of others.

Streaming Netflix can turn you into a couch potato if you let it.
Another good streaming video provider is Amazon Prime and with it you
get free 2 day shipping for items bought on Amazon. It is one of the
best deals out there. If I had to chose one or the other I'd take Amazon
Prime.

Now we just have a HDTV antenna and the two streaming video services.

"Crackle" is free and worth looking into too.

http://www.crackle.com/

Nah....Netflix's a great deal but I heard today they are raising the
price for new subscribers.

I think this is the future of television for those who are not just
using rabbit ears. Now that content producers can sell directly to
consumers, who needs cable companies and networks. The guys who own
the fiber and the wire will just be selling bandwidth and the content
will be a separate commodity.

The only real question is whether the infrastructure can handle that
much bandwidth.

I remember when I was in the biz and they were just starting the fiber
backbone that became the data path for the internet, we thought that
if everyone just had a T-1, it would be more data than they could ever
use. That is a very slow DSL connection today. (1.4 mbs).
Now people expect at least 10x that..

Nobody will ever need more than 640k. (IIRC) Bill Gates

--
Tekkie

CRNG wrote:

+1 on that. Also, I've read that the streaming movie selection is
pathetic compared to the DVD selection. I assuming that NetFlix is
pushing streaming so it can get away from postage; but I would rather
pay more and keep the DVDs.

A couple of things lately have made me wonder if they're subtly pushing
people off DVDs. First, they moved their distribution center to Salt lake.
From where I live, that's two days for mail delivery. They do not appear to
work on Saturdays either, so for the most part no matter when I mail a DVD,
I'm not going to see a replacement until the Wednesday of next week. This is
close to the throttling that got them into trouble before.

More troubling, I've got about 50 titles on my queue currently with about
50% being short, long, or very long waits. One is 'unknown' and has been in
that status literally for years. Several of the long waits have been there
for months. Actually, the newer TV series seem to do better than the older
theatrical movies. What I really liked about Netflix was the ability to get
classic, foreign, and obscure DVDs. If they drop those in favor of new
releases, RedBox beckons.

|
| +1 on that. Also, I've read that the streaming movie selection is
| pathetic compared to the DVD selection. I assuming that NetFlix is
| pushing streaming so it can get away from postage; but I would rather
| pay more and keep the DVDs.
|
| A couple of things lately have made me wonder if they're subtly pushing
| people off DVDs. First, they moved their distribution center to Salt lake.
| From where I live, that's two days for mail delivery. They do not appear
to
| work on Saturdays either, so for the most part no matter when I mail a
DVD,
| I'm not going to see a replacement until the Wednesday of next week. This
is
| close to the throttling that got them into trouble before.
|
I imagine they'd like the simplicity of switching to all
online, but they simply can't get the rights for that.
I'm in Boston and have no trouble with delivery in most
cases. I often get a DVD 2 days after mailing one back.
I figure we're paying well under $2 each for movies, but
we could pay less if we really tried to watch them all the
same day they arrive.

Actually, I get a lot of the movies I watch from the local
library. And I don't have cable TV. I just have a small
antenna next to the TV, which provides me about 20
local stations. I actually get 5 PBS stations -- more than
the cable TV offers!

| More troubling, I've got about 50 titles on my queue currently with about
| 50% being short, long, or very long waits. One is 'unknown' and has been
in
| that status literally for years. Several of the long waits have been there
| for months.

That has nothing to do with them. The movie studios have
a system of release. They won't release to DVD before they've
milked the higher paying venues. The time for that depends
on how long a movie stays in the theaters.

Another aspect that I'm concerned about, which I don't
think has been mentioned, is the longterm situation with
streaming. Netflix recently paid Comcast to get faster speeds.
They're complaining about it, but they paid nevertheless.
As more people stream more through online something has
to give. Maybe ISPs will start charging for extra traffic.
Maybe the Internet will turn into one giant cable TV and
cable Internet prices will skyrocket to pay fees charged
by media companies, just as most people with cable TV now
pay a fee for numerous cable stations whether they watch
them or not. Maybe cable TV will even merge with Internet,
with people being forced to buy everything for $200/month
or get no Internet at all.
However it works out, it's clear that it can't go on the way
it's going, because that would overtax the Internet while putting
the cable TV companies out of business. For that reason, in
addition to the paucity of streaming offerings -- I haven't
put much effort into looking into streaming options. I figure
I'll wait for the dust to settle.

On 4/22/2014 6:15 PM, gonjah wrote:

Another good streaming video provider is Amazon Prime and with it you
get free 2 day shipping for items bought on Amazon. It is one of the
best deals out there. If I had to chose one or the other I'd take
Amazon Prime.

Especially since Amazon and HBO just announced a new deal:

HBO Is Bringing a Ton of Its Shows to Amazon Prime

Amazon just announced an agreement that makes Prime Instant Video the
only place you can watch HBO originals online without an HBO
subscription. Starting May 21st, Prime members will get exclusive,
unlimited streaming access to pretty much every HBO original you're
interested in except Game of Thrones...

http://gizmodo.com/hbo-is-bringing-a...1566504724/all

On Wednesday, April 23, 2014 7:13:37 AM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
CRNG wrote:



+1 on that. Also, I've read that the streaming movie selection is

pathetic compared to the DVD selection. I assuming that NetFlix is

pushing streaming so it can get away from postage; but I would rather

pay more and keep the DVDs.



A couple of things lately have made me wonder if they're subtly pushing

people off DVDs. First, they moved their distribution center to Salt lake.

From where I live, that's two days for mail delivery. They do not appear to

work on Saturdays either, so for the most part no matter when I mail a DVD,

I'm not going to see a replacement until the Wednesday of next week. This is

close to the throttling that got them into trouble before.



More troubling, I've got about 50 titles on my queue currently with about

50% being short, long, or very long waits. One is 'unknown' and has been in

that status literally for years. Several of the long waits have been there

for months. Actually, the newer TV series seem to do better than the older

theatrical movies. What I really liked about Netflix was the ability to get

classic, foreign, and obscure DVDs. If they drop those in favor of new

releases, RedBox beckons.

Have left your msg in despite the hatchet-job folks, so I can respond by item.

My local mailing address is still local and is fast turnaround. Only time it's more is on weekend/holiday.

Roger your comment about "classic, foreign and obscure DVDs". That's basically what I want from Netflix, as I am NOT NOT NOT into contemporary pop films, few of which appeal outside the 13-24 year male action bang-bang no-story genres.

Can't speak to the po$tage factor, but might well BE a negative for Netflix.

ATC, Mayayana reflects my view: I am definitely NOT happy watchinng "any old thing".

He said:

"So I think it depends on what you watch. If you're
happy watching any old thing but like to see a lot of
TV, it will probably seem a very good deal. If you like
to see "art house" movies, good foreign movies, recent
*good* movies, movies that have won awards at
Sundance, etc, then I'm guessing you'd be very frustrated
with the streaming offerings. I find that I can get nearly
anything on the DVDs, but it seems that the way they
afford to give you an all-you-can-eat streaming menu
is because Hollywood only approves the dregs, which are
no longer making money elsewhere, to be streamed."

So I think conservative moi will stay with the red envelopes. After all, if it's that unbearable being w/o a DVD during a turnaround evg, I can always get a DVD from the Library.

Thanks again to all for input.

HB

On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 08:13:37 -0600, rbowman wrote
in

A couple of things lately have made me wonder if they're subtly pushing
people off DVDs.

There no subtly about it. They would love all their customers to go
"digital". The problem is the digital selection sucks and a lot of
people in the U.S. still can't get anything more than dial up.

If I was required to go digital, I would just cancel my account.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

Mayayana wrote:

That has nothing to do with them. The movie studios have
a system of release. They won't release to DVD before they've
milked the higher paying venues. The time for that depends
on how long a movie stays in the theaters.

I'm not talking about current releases. I'm content to be a year behind the
world theatrical releases or cable TV series like 'Game of Thrones' or
'Justified'. However 'Heart Like a Wheel' is a 1983 biopic about the drag
racer Shirley Muldowney and probably hasn't seen a big screen in this
century. It's not on my saved queue, it's on the real queue which presumably
is DVDs they actually have in hand, but it's been a very long wait for
months. And for the real goody:

Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters Foreign Unknown DVD

That's been #1 literaly for three or four years. They either have it or they
don't. That one was released in 1985 so ut's not like they're waiting for it
to be made. Others, like 'Wild Angels' was on my saved queue until I said
the hell with it and bought it from Amazon.

Higgs Boson wrote:

My local mailing address is still local and is fast turnaround. Only time
it's more is on weekend/holiday.

You're lucky. It used to be in Spokane, which wasn't too bad, then it moved
to Butte which was really good. The next move was to Salt lake City, which
really sucks. If I wanted to fly from here to hell I'd have to change planes
in SLC but I think the USPS still uses mules to get up here.

I did get a chuckle out of a couple of DVD's. They were the ones where
Netflix says 'your next item on the queue will take a while to get there so
we're sending another one in the meantime. About 5 days later the red
envelope trickled in from Honolulu, still slightly damp from being dragged
behind a Malaysian container ship.

wrote:

I think the days of any entertainment on little bits of plastic are
limited.
DVDs will go the way of 8 tracks, hard copy books and photos on film.

I expect high speed, unlimited bandwidth to reach me about the 12th of never
so I'll stick to little bits of plastic. Un this most advanced of all
nations I live about 10 miles from the center of what passes for a large
cuty (50,000 or so) and consider myself damn lucky to get 4G wireless with a
5GB limit per month. It's not bad, but it's not up to streaming video.

CRNG wrote:

If I was required to go digital, I would just cancel my account.

Same here. 4G wireless is a lot better that dialup but it's still not up to
streaming much more than youtube videos most of the time. I've got Amazon
Prime for the shipping and other perks but their streaming service is as
useful as tits on a bull to me unless I want to stay late at work.

On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 20:15:28 -0600, rbowman wrote
in

CRNG wrote:

If I was required to go digital, I would just cancel my account.

Same here. 4G wireless is a lot better that dialup but it's still not up to
streaming much more than youtube videos most of the time. I've got Amazon
Prime for the shipping and other perks but their streaming service is as
useful as tits on a bull to me unless I want to stay late at work.

I live in a rural area and around here we consider a dial-tone to be a
miracle. In this state the utilities own the Public Utilities
Commission.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

"CRNG" wrote in message

stuff snipped

I live in a rural area and around here we consider a dial-tone to be a
miracle. In this state the utilities own the Public Utilities
Commission.

It's that way in almost every state. Here in the DC area Verizon is
actively working to convert all their dial tone/copper wire customers to
FIOS. I've told them repeatedly I don't want a phone line that can't
support a dial up modem, that isn't regulated by the public service
commission, that runs out of battery power in an emergency and that depends
on the stability of the Verizon computer network.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...Say-They-Felt-
Pressured-Into-Fios-235098041.html

http://tinyurl.com/n3xgwvp

I'm with you - the sound of a dial tone is a miracle. When all the
cellphones went out in the DC area on 9/11, the landlines kept on truckin'.
I assume that the VOIP service will crash pretty much the same way when
everyone gets on their phone in an emergency all at the same time. It's
really a public safety issue but since the PSC has been "captured" by the
companies they regulate they don't care. They're hastening the destruction
of the copper phone network that has demonstrated far greater overall
reliability than any of its replacement technologies. That's progress, I
guess. )-:

One good thing about being one of the last of the dinosaur dial-up guys is
that with the exodus of subscribers from copper phone lines, there's hardly
*ever* any crosstalk on the lines these says. The tech told me I had the
only dial tone on a 50 pair trunk cable. It's lonely at the top (and
bottom).

FWIW, the Feds probably want everyone to switch to VOIP so they can more
easily monitor everyone's phone conversations.

Give me that old time religion, give me that old time religion, give me that
old time religion, it's good enough for me!

--
Bobby G.

On Thursday, April 24, 2014 6:17:15 PM UTC-4, Robert Green wrote:
"CRNG" wrote in message



stuff snipped



I live in a rural area and around here we consider a dial-tone to be a

miracle. In this state the utilities own the Public Utilities

Commission.



It's that way in almost every state. Here in the DC area Verizon is

actively working to convert all their dial tone/copper wire customers to

FIOS. I've told them repeatedly I don't want a phone line that can't

support a dial up modem, that isn't regulated by the public service

commission, that runs out of battery power in an emergency and that depends

on the stability of the Verizon computer network.



http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...Say-They-Felt-

Pressured-Into-Fios-235098041.html



http://tinyurl.com/n3xgwvp



I'm with you - the sound of a dial tone is a miracle. When all the

cellphones went out in the DC area on 9/11, the landlines kept on truckin'.

I assume that the VOIP service will crash pretty much the same way when

everyone gets on their phone in an emergency all at the same time. It's

really a public safety issue but since the PSC has been "captured" by the

companies they regulate they don't care. They're hastening the destruction

of the copper phone network that has demonstrated far greater overall

reliability than any of its replacement technologies. That's progress, I

guess. )-:



One good thing about being one of the last of the dinosaur dial-up guys is

that with the exodus of subscribers from copper phone lines, there's hardly

*ever* any crosstalk on the lines these says. The tech told me I had the

only dial tone on a 50 pair trunk cable. It's lonely at the top (and

bottom).



FWIW, the Feds probably want everyone to switch to VOIP so they can more

easily monitor everyone's phone conversations.



Give me that old time religion, give me that old time religion, give me that

old time religion, it's good enough for me!



--

Bobby G.

verizon FIOS ROTTEN SERVICE was by far the worst customer service of my life!!

TV hadnt rolled out in my area yet.....

The fios internet actually worked pretty good. But the phone was terrible, echoes, noise every 12 calls, I couldnt hear the caller. long difficult to manuver thru auto attendant, then the killer message. were sorry all reps are busy now please try your call again later, goodbye system hangs up, unfriendly reps who all blamed my interior wiring even though the first road tech remarked my accout, problem reproduced with house totally disconnected. while this mess was going on every few nights at dinner time reps would ring my doorbell trying to sell me tv, after sending them a registered letter to stop I had police escort them off my property. because I had 6 phone lines at one time I was getting multiple solicitation calls daily I was under contract for phone and internet, they said even though the phone didnt work reliably it was against company policy to let me out of contract.....

I still had one line on copper, my business line. One day I realized I NEVER called out on that line, so I called and cancelled the outgoing call package... saving 35 bucks a month, they cancelled my business service, They fixed it in a hour but the system burped and did it again a few days later, My line was out of service for 4 days, callers got the number you called is no longer in service, no futher info is available this cost me customers they thought I went out of business.

I canceled ALL verizon land service and ordered them to remove the copper and fibre drop and all equiptement! they finally agreed when I threatened them with a FIOS SUCKS BANNER on my home.

fios sucked for me......

oh the noise wasnt my home it was a bad card in the central office that effected everyone in my prefix

oh the backup battery failed at 6 months and verizon wanted to charge me 50 bucks for a new one. my fios box beeped alarm 24 / 7 for nearly a month. the phone reps didnt know how to turn off the alarm, I found the ilence alarm button when replacing the battery

"bob haller" wrote in message
news:ddca94fc-9fc6-4ef4-8d4f-

stuff snipped

FIOS. I've told them repeatedly I don't want a phone line that can't
support a dial up modem, that isn't regulated by the public service
commission, that runs out of battery power in an emergency and that
depends
on the stability of the Verizon computer network.


http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...Say-They-Felt-
Pressured-Into-Fios-235098041.html

http://tinyurl.com/n3xgwvp

verizon FIOS ROTTEN SERVICE was by far the worst customer service of my
life!!

TV hadnt rolled out in my area yet.....

The fios internet actually worked pretty good. But the phone was terrible,
echoes, noise every 12 calls, I couldnt hear the caller. long difficult to
manuver thru auto attendant, then the killer message. were sorry all reps
are busy now please try your call again later, goodbye system hangs up,
unfriendly reps who all blamed my interior wiring even though the first road
tech remarked my accout, problem reproduced with house totally disconnected.
while this mess was going on every few nights at dinner time reps would ring
my doorbell trying to sell me tv, after sending them a registered letter to
stop I had police escort them off my property. because I had 6 phone lines
at one time I was getting multiple solicitation calls daily I was under
contract for phone and internet, they said even though the phone didnt work
reliably it was against company policy to let me out of contract.....

I still had one line on copper, my business line. One day I realized I NEVER
called out on that line, so I called and cancelled the outgoing call
package... saving 35 bucks a month, they cancelled my business service, They
fixed it in a hour but the system burped and did it again a few days later,
My line was out of service for 4 days, callers got the number you called is
no longer in service, no futher info is available this cost me
customers they thought I went out of business.

I canceled ALL verizon land service and ordered them to remove the copper
and fibre drop and all equiptement! they finally agreed when I threatened
them with a FIOS SUCKS BANNER on my home.

fios sucked for me......

oh the noise wasnt my home it was a bad card in the central office that
effected everyone in my prefix

oh the backup battery failed at 6 months and verizon wanted to charge me 50
bucks for a new one. my fios box beeped alarm 24 / 7 for nearly a month. the
phone reps didnt know how to turn off the alarm, I found the ilence alarm
button when replacing the battery

I knew I didn't want FIOS VOIP but now I know I *really* don't want it.
Thanks for sharing. Verizon hired kids to canvass the area and really work
on the holdouts like me. They were SO insistent I had to hit them with a
few seconds of the VERY loud alarm bell on the porch to make them go away.
(-:

--
Bobby G.

On Fri, 25 Apr 2014 00:11:01 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote in
verizon FIOS ROTTEN SERVICE was by far the worst customer service of
my
life!!

Don't take it personally. It's just part of Amerika's race to the
bottom.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On Thursday, April 24, 2014 6:17:15 PM UTC-4, Robert Green wrote:
"CRNG" wrote in message



stuff snipped



I live in a rural area and around here we consider a dial-tone to be a

miracle. In this state the utilities own the Public Utilities

Commission.



It's that way in almost every state. Here in the DC area Verizon is

actively working to convert all their dial tone/copper wire customers to

FIOS. I've told them repeatedly I don't want a phone line that can't

support a dial up modem, that isn't regulated by the public service

commission, that runs out of battery power in an emergency and that depends

on the stability of the Verizon computer network.



http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...Say-They-Felt-

Pressured-Into-Fios-235098041.html



http://tinyurl.com/n3xgwvp



I'm with you - the sound of a dial tone is a miracle. When all the

cellphones went out in the DC area on 9/11, the landlines kept on truckin'.

I assume that the VOIP service will crash pretty much the same way when

everyone gets on their phone in an emergency all at the same time. It's

really a public safety issue but since the PSC has been "captured" by the

companies they regulate they don't care. They're hastening the destruction

of the copper phone network that has demonstrated far greater overall

reliability than any of its replacement technologies. That's progress, I

guess. )-:


The big problem is the cost of maintaining that whole separate POTS
infrastructure, the hundreds of millions of miles of wire cable strung
along poles being the major portion of it. IDK what the experiences
have been of the vast majority of consumers who have switched over to
VOIP services. And there are a whole host of those services, ranging
from Telcos and cable companies, which are at the top of the heap,
charging the most and having the best quality and reliability,
down to $25 a year services, like MajicJack, which are at the bottom.
But I think the problem is that on that cost curve there are VOIP
solutions that provide acceptable service at rates at a small fraction
of what it will cost to maintain copper to the homes out there.
When that was the only way to do voice, it made a lot of sense.
Today when that's pretty much all it can do and for 95% of the people
there are other more cost effective solutions, it's on it's way out.







One good thing about being one of the last of the dinosaur dial-up guys is

that with the exodus of subscribers from copper phone lines, there's hardly

*ever* any crosstalk on the lines these says. The tech told me I had the

only dial tone on a 50 pair trunk cable. It's lonely at the top (and

bottom).



FWIW, the Feds probably want everyone to switch to VOIP so they can more

easily monitor everyone's phone conversations.



Give me that old time religion, give me that old time religion, give me that

old time religion, it's good enough for me!



--

Bobby G.

On Thursday, April 24, 2014 6:17:15 PM UTC-4, Robert Green wrote:
"CRNG" wrote in message



stuff snipped



I live in a rural area and around here we consider a dial-tone to be a

miracle. In this state the utilities own the Public Utilities

Commission.



It's that way in almost every state. Here in the DC area Verizon is

actively working to convert all their dial tone/copper wire customers to

FIOS. I've told them repeatedly I don't want a phone line that can't

support a dial up modem, that isn't regulated by the public service

commission, that runs out of battery power in an emergency and that depends

on the stability of the Verizon computer network.



http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...Say-They-Felt-

Pressured-Into-Fios-235098041.html



http://tinyurl.com/n3xgwvp



I'm with you - the sound of a dial tone is a miracle. When all the

cellphones went out in the DC area on 9/11, the landlines kept on truckin'.

I assume that the VOIP service will crash pretty much the same way when

everyone gets on their phone in an emergency all at the same time. It's

really a public safety issue but since the PSC has been "captured" by the

companies they regulate they don't care. They're hastening the destruction

of the copper phone network that has demonstrated far greater overall

reliability than any of its replacement technologies. That's progress, I

guess. )-:



One good thing about being one of the last of the dinosaur dial-up guys is

that with the exodus of subscribers from copper phone lines, there's hardly

*ever* any crosstalk on the lines these says. The tech told me I had the

only dial tone on a 50 pair trunk cable. It's lonely at the top (and

bottom).



FWIW, the Feds probably want everyone to switch to VOIP so they can more

easily monitor everyone's phone conversations.



Give me that old time religion, give me that old time religion, give me that

old time religion, it's good enough for me!



--

Bobby G.

Most of your calls end up on voip before they reach the other end anyway. You think the telcoms are still multiplexing over copper? Think again.

On Thursday, April 24, 2014 9:11:01 PM UTC-7, Robert Green wrote:
"bob haller" wrote in message

news:ddca94fc-9fc6-4ef4-8d4f-



stuff snipped



FIOS. I've told them repeatedly I don't want a phone line that can't

support a dial up modem, that isn't regulated by the public service

commission,

WHATTTT???!!!!

Are you saying that Verizon FIOS (tfui,tfui, tfui..

IS NOT REGULATED BY YOUR STATE'S PUC? (In California that's what it's called: Public Utilities Commission.)

Are we talking about phone? Or FIOS package? .

Which part of phone svx is regulated by State (I thought) and which by Feds (if..?

Is copper regulated differently than fiber? Confused.

Please confirm, or kindly refer me to a source.

TIA

HB




[...]

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...Say-They-Felt-

Pressured-Into-Fios-235098041.html



http://tinyurl.com/n3xgwvp

jamesgang writes:
On Thursday, April 24, 2014 6:17:15 PM UTC-4, Robert Green wrote:
"CRNG" wrote in message



FWIW, the Feds probably want everyone to switch to VOIP so they can more
easily monitor everyone's phone conversations.

Give me that old time religion, give me that old time religion, give me that

old time religion, it's good enough for me!

Most of your calls end up on voip before they reach the other end anyway. You think the telcoms are still multiplexing over copper? Think again.

ATM, surely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asynchronous_Transfer_Mode

On Friday, April 25, 2014 1:17:25 PM UTC-4, jamesgang wrote:
On Thursday, April 24, 2014 6:17:15 PM UTC-4, Robert Green wrote:

"CRNG" wrote in message







stuff snipped







I live in a rural area and around here we consider a dial-tone to be a



miracle. In this state the utilities own the Public Utilities



Commission.







It's that way in almost every state. Here in the DC area Verizon is



actively working to convert all their dial tone/copper wire customers to



FIOS. I've told them repeatedly I don't want a phone line that can't



support a dial up modem, that isn't regulated by the public service



commission, that runs out of battery power in an emergency and that depends



on the stability of the Verizon computer network.







http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/lo...Say-They-Felt-



Pressured-Into-Fios-235098041.html







http://tinyurl.com/n3xgwvp







I'm with you - the sound of a dial tone is a miracle. When all the



cellphones went out in the DC area on 9/11, the landlines kept on truckin'.



I assume that the VOIP service will crash pretty much the same way when



everyone gets on their phone in an emergency all at the same time. It's



really a public safety issue but since the PSC has been "captured" by the



companies they regulate they don't care. They're hastening the destruction



of the copper phone network that has demonstrated far greater overall



reliability than any of its replacement technologies. That's progress, I



guess. )-:







One good thing about being one of the last of the dinosaur dial-up guys is



that with the exodus of subscribers from copper phone lines, there's hardly



*ever* any crosstalk on the lines these says. The tech told me I had the



only dial tone on a 50 pair trunk cable. It's lonely at the top (and



bottom).







FWIW, the Feds probably want everyone to switch to VOIP so they can more



easily monitor everyone's phone conversations.







Give me that old time religion, give me that old time religion, give me that



old time religion, it's good enough for me!







--



Bobby G.



Most of your calls end up on voip before they reach the other end anyway. You think the telcoms are still multiplexing over copper? Think again.

Just because it's not sent over copper doesnt' mean it's VOIP. The telcoms
were sending voice over high speed fiber before there was VOIP. It's the
nature of how the call is established and switched that is the key
difference. With the tradional phone system, once your call is set-up,
you have a time slot connection from source to destination, guaranteed,
through each switch and line from source to destination. You're guaranteed
that each voice sample, every 128 usecs gets from source to destination.
That route stays fixed, essentially an open channel, for the duration of
the call. With VOIP, you have no such fixed arrangement and there is no guarantee on the timing of any particular packet, the order or the routing.
A lot of work has gone into trying to fix the problems in voice quality
caused by the latter, but it's an inherent and substantial difference in
the design of the two systems.

I knew I didn't want FIOS VOIP but now I know I *really* don't want it.

Thanks for sharing. Verizon hired kids to canvass the area and really work

on the holdouts like me. They were SO insistent I had to hit them with a

few seconds of the VERY loud alarm bell on the porch to make them go away.

(-:



--

Bobby G.

the sales reps must be paid on commision, honestly if another one ever shows up here I am erecting a big sign fios sucks and inviting the media.

"Higgs Boson" wrote in message
news:0a874d77-9b7e-4e23-9c19-

stuff snipped

WHATTTT???!!!!
Are you saying that Verizon FIOS (tfui,tfui, tfui..
IS NOT REGULATED BY YOUR STATE'S PUC? (In California that's what it's
called: Public
Utilities Commission.)

That's my understanding, at least in the Washington, DC area. For the
longest time Verizon has been complaining that they are held to a much
higher standard of service reliability with copper than Comcast with VOIP.
And they DON'T like it one bit. They've conveniently forgotten the massive
tax breaks and monopoly status they've enjoyed for years providing the
copper phone network.

Verizon enjoyed some $14 billion in federal and state corporate income tax
subsidies in the 2008-2010 period even though it earned $33.4 billion in
pre-tax U.S. income during that time.At the federal level, Verizon should
have paid about $11.4 billion at the statutory rate of 35 percent during the
three-year period. Instead, it got $951 million in rebates, putting its
federal tax subsidies at $12.3 billion. Its effective federal tax rate
was -2.9 percent.

http://crooksandliars.com/kenneth-qu...-rate-2008-201

Yet with a sweet deal like that, they're whining about how much it costs to
maintain copper lines already in place. Oddly, though, they steadfastly
refuse to say *exactly* how much it costs, citing "unfair competitive
advantage" that might result. Oddly, again, no one seems to want to build
anymore copper phone networks, so just who's going to get a big leg up
knowing what it actually costs to keep copper for the people that want it or
will have no choice but wireless? Even MORE oddly, rather than reveal that
data, they
withdrew their plan to replace copper with wireless on Fire Island, NY after
Sandy hit and gave them FIOS instead. I suspect that's what they always
wanted to do. Their capitulation surely suggests they are hiding
something - IMHO it's that they are grossly overestimating the cost of
continued maintenance of the existing copper phone network.

Most news articles I've read say that VOIP is *not* regulated by the states'
PUC/PSC's but I can't speak for all of them or even anything outside of
Maryland/DC.

Why is that important? Because PSC can set minimum levels of service such
as how long it takes to repair outages, overall service reliability and
quality of service. In addition the PSC can settle billing disputes and
insure that the elderly and the ill won't have their service cut off for
late or non-payment. As far as I know, no Verizon rep has ever pointed out
that the FIOS phone service is battery operated, not regulated and can cause
problems with existing equipment like dial up modems, credit card processing
equipment, etc.

The FCC is running a test in two cities to determine whether they will
support the Telco's plans to pull the plug on copper but telecom sites seem
to think FCC approval that will end copper service is a done deal and the
test is just window dressing:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...digital-tests-
to-lose-rules

http://tinyurl.com/k5e257d

"We looked for places where state law wasn't going to be an issue, where
the regulatory and legal environment in the state was conducive to the
transition," Christopher Heimann, an AT&T attorney, said at the briefing.

Hmm. Sounds like the fix is in to me!

Verizon claims it has no plans to shut down working service for customers,
but it does not want to spend millions to continue to support infrastructure
fewer customers actually use. That means watching the gradual deterioration
of Verizon's copper-based facilities, kept in service until they inevitably
fail, at which point Verizon will offer to "restore service" with its Voice
Link wireless product instead.

For voice calls, that may suffice for some, especially those comfortable
relying on cell technology already. But at a time when the United States is
already struggling with a rural broadband problem, abandoning millions of
rural DSL customers only makes rural broadband an even bigger challenge. The
wireless alternative is too variable in reception quality, too expensive,
and too usage capped.

source:

http://stopthecap.com/2013/07/08/fcc...s-out-by-2020/

People in rural areas should be *very* concerned because they're going to be
hit the hardest when copper disappears and there's little profit to be made
delivering fiber to them.

At least one PSC, NY's, has demanded that Verizon actually quantify the
costs of maintaining the already built-out copper network and they are NOT
happy about it:

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...rders-verizon-
to-cough-up-cost-data-its-new-york-copper-lines.shtml

http://tinyurl.com/lwxnc46

The commission addressed Verizon's "trade secret" claims with this
statement.

"The information claimed by Verizon to be trade secrets or confidential
commercial information does not warrant an exception from disclosure and its
request for continued protection from disclosure is denied," it said in
Monday's ruling.

Even with FIOS, Verizon is still failing to provide reliable phone service,
something they say the law requires it to provide. Unlike copper lines, FIOS
may not work during power outages.

Verizon (along with AT&T) has made little secret of its desire to ditch
copper lines and move its customers towards higher margin wireless services.
If Verizon is ultimately forced to turn over cost data to the public, it
could make for some very interesting reading.

State officials wrote there "is no present or imminent contract award that
could be impaired by the disclosure" and that the state Freedom of
Information Law is based on a "premise that the public is vested with an
inherent right to know and official secrecy is anathematic to our form of
government."

--
Bobby G.






--
Bobby G.