On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:45:59 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

its probably best to keep the tank at least half full, in case some day OP cant get it filled.
Then keep a low profile and hope its forgotten about. repainting the tank is probably a good idea, to fix rust and cover possible ownership questions.

when OP is ready to sell home expect lots of unpleasant questions.....

Why? The questions weren't asked when he bought the house. If asked,
"It must be mine, it was there when I bought the house and no one has
ever told me otherwise." No lies. He's probably blown that argument
now, though. ;-)

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 18:51:50 -0400, dadiOH wrote:

No cooperative. Prices here are $5.00+/gallon. We are being screwed.

Wow. That's high. Propane is propane. There is no tax involved (we have
to sign a tax form saying we're not reselling it).

If you bring a tank over to my place, I'll sell it to you at my cost!


Here, by the way, are *my* historical prices, based on being in this
coop (which is a no brainer since the coop only costs $15 per year).
http://www.southskyline.org/About.html

These are the prices we're charged in the coop, going back to 1999:
http://www.southskyline.org/spug.html

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 02:40:17 +0000 (UTC), Alex Gunderson
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 18:48:40 -0400, dadiOH wrote:

I keep meaning to ask, are you sure this is a 1000 gallon tank? That
would be HUGE for a residence. Generally, they are 100-120 gallons;
physically, maybe 6' long x 24-30" in diameter.

Well, I generally get a fill every couple of months of about 300 or 400
gallons but they fill it only to something like 75% and they don't let
it get empty (it's on a schedule that they calculate).

....making sure they fill on the peaks and buy on the valleys. ;-) My
gas (and oil company before that) would never fill in the summer when
the prices were the lowest. They'd wait until the fall and then make
sure it was topped off in the Winter. Of course in the winter I was
using 175gal (oil), or so, every three weeks. They had to. :-(

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 02:43:13 +0000 (UTC), Alex Gunderson
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:13:31 -0400, krw wrote:

If they do figure it out, they'll likely only start charging you rent from
that day. I wouldn't expect them to just give you the tank, though.

I think the two negative things that would happen are both
surmountable, so, it wouldn't be catastrophic.

So you're finally coming to the obvious conclusion.

One is they could charge rent.

From that day on. It would be difficult to back-charge you, without
an agreement in hand.

The other is that I couldn't shop around to another supplier.

Right. They would have no leverage. They have no knowledge, now, an
even better situation for you to be in. Keep it that way. STFU.

On the other hand, rent isn't all that bad (many people rent); and,
on the same other hand, the company I chose is generally the cheapest.

http://www.southskyline.org/skyprop.html

Why are you so paranoid?

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 18:51:50 -0400, dadiOH wrote:

No cooperative. Prices here are $5.00+/gallon. We are being screwed.

Wow. You're paying a huge markup because propane is propane so
cheaper is better. Your prices are strange. I wonder what *other*
people are paying for propane this month?

Normally we're screwed here in California so I'm surprised we're cheaper.
Almost never is it the other way around.

For example, here are the state's gasoline prices:
http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/gasoline/

But, more to the point, here are the state's propane prices:
http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/propane/index.html#prices

I get a discount off those prices because I'm in this coop:
http://www.southskyline.org/skyprop.html

The coop tells us:
"Propane companies buy gas at wholesale from the big suppliers at the
wholesale rate, called the Warren posting, which is published.
We pay that published wholesale cost + a markup of 56 cents per gallon."

You seem to be paying a HUUUUUGE markup, of dollars per gallon.

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:38:27 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, September 27, 2013 6:44:49 PM UTC-4, Alex Gunderson wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 13:20:34 -0700, wrote:



Let's recap. You bought the property with a propane tank attached to it.

The sales contract says nothing about who owns the tank. You believed at

the time that you bought it with the house. You called up the low cost

propane supplier and prior to starting filling service, they came out,

inspected the tank, and asked you who owned it. You told them you did and

signed an affidavit to that effect. That is what you believed at the

time.



Wow. You're good!



Now let's pause for a moment. The company actually inspected the tank

prior to filling it the first time. They didn't say it was another

company's tank. Also, the tank apparently has no company name on it,

which some other folks here I believe have said is unusual for a leased

tank. I would think so too.



Yup. Exactly.



A few years go by. Some tech from the gas company one day tells you that

he thinks it's owned by company X, which apparently was the supplier to

the previous owner? That company has now been bought by your current

supplier.



Yup. AFAIK.



So, if the tank was company X's, it's now the property of your current

supplier. The big assumption here is that the tech is right. He could

just be talking out his ass.



When he said it, I questioned it, saying I owned the tank.

He said the serial numbers matched as did the address, but that he'd check.

I haven't heard back from him (but that was only yesterday).



And how does he now know it belonged to company X, when previously the gas

company inspected it, asked who owned it, and didn't have a problem when

you said you did?



The implication was that it's the same address and serial number of a tank

that is in the database of the company that owned the tank originally.


That's an important point that hasn't been made clear until now.
You told us that a tech from your gas company, while connecting
a new grill or something told you that it was Company X's tank.
You didn't tell us he matched the serial number and address to a
DATABASE. And since he works for the company that bought Company X,
and looked it up in their database, then it's very likely that
he's correct. The way you originally stated it, there was no
indication what his opinion was based on.

Right! However, the other side of the same coin is that an agent of
the company now knows it's their tank so it would be impossible for
them to back-charge any rent (not that they would anyway), a this
point. Do nothing.
...

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 21:40:13 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:26:44 -0500, CRNG
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 20:25:02 +0000 (UTC), Alex Gunderson
wrote in Re Who
actually owns this 1,000 gallon propane tank?:

I called the title company, who said that they will get back to me to
confirm, but, offhand, they said they don't cover "personal property".

They said they "think" the propane tank (just like a satellite dish)
is actually "personal property".

Generally, personal property that is "substantially affixed" to real
property, becomes real property. For example, consider a large
bathroom mirror that is hung with wires on the back of the mirror
frame to hooks on the wall. That mirror is personal property.

But take that mirror and screw it onto the wall via bolts going
through the frame and into the studs and it becomes real property.

Just use glass clips screwed into the dry-wall - with or without
anchors, and it becomes "real property. Even if it is fastened to the
wall with double sided tape.

Probably not. Stuff that's screwed to the wall is considered
removable. Stuff that's nailed (or glued) is considered permanent. I
doubt that either matters if the mirror never belonged to the owner,
though.

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 21:34:47 -0400, clare wrote:

You can change suppliers if and when the time comes by signing with a
different company and telling the current company to come and pick up
their tank. Decide THEN if you want to buy or rent, depending on what the
conditions are AT THAT TIME, if and when the time comes.

This is true.

Here's what it would cost me, in the coop, to BUY a new tank:
http://www.southskyline.org/skyprop.html

Our coop contract seems to be $1,000 for a 500-gallon tank
(i.e., $2 a gallon) or $1,600 for a 1,000-gallon tank
(i.e., $1.60 a gallon).

That's just about the current price of propane (currently at
around $2 per gallon): http://www.southskyline.org/spug.html

Note: That's just the tank cost, delivered to my door.

Interestingly, the economics of owning a huge propane tank is, in
one respect, about the same math ratio as owning a portable gasoline
container, which costs about the same as it would hold in gasoline.

BTW, when I called earlier today, they quoted me prices that were more
than double those contractual numbers above, so, it serves me right for
asking the propane company anything about their prices. Sheesh.

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:38:27 -0700, wrote:

You didn't tell us he matched the serial number and address to a DATABASE.
And since he works for the company that bought Company X, and looked it
up in their database, then it's very likely that he's correct.

I'm sorry for not being explicit with the details.

To be clear, I called them out to inspect the BBQ setup, and they
scheduled the inspection about two weeks ago for two days ago.

The guy who came out *already* had the serial number on his sheet
of paper. So, he knew beforehand the serial number and the address
(which makes sense since it's always been the same for this company).

That he matched that to the other company database is my guess; but
it would seem to be easy to match up the static address with the
just as static serial number.

He told me the tank was owned by them.

When I looked surprised, I noticed he looked at his sheet, and then
he walked over to the tank and looked at the serial number on the
tank.

He then made a notation on the sheet that he needed to check things
out because I said I owned it and he had already said that I didn't.

I haven't heard back from him yet though ... (and at this point,
I hope I never do!).

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:21:39 -0400, dadiOH wrote:

Out of curiosity, what are you paying for gas?

BTW, I found an old chart, for 2010, where the prices were higher:
http://www.southskyline.org/images/S...10-11_zoom.gif

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 22:40:51 -0400, krw wrote:

Who they sold it to is pretty much irrelevant. They have to show that
they still own it. THEN figure out how you want to deal with it. You're
just borrowing trouble.

You're right. I already told them way too much. I should have just
kept my mouth shut when the guy had the serial number.

Sigh.

And, if they ever find this thread ...

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 22:56:53 -0400, krw wrote:

They have no knowledge, now, an even
better situation for you to be in. Keep it that way. STFU.

In hind sight, I should have shut up.

Maybe I've even said too much in this thread.

Alex Gunderson wrote in news:l250t7$dgb$38
@solani.org:

I'm at work right now, but that's an EXCELLENT idea.

I was wondering about the very large amount of time you are obviously
spending on this. At first I thought that you might be retired with a lot
of time on your hands. Now I understand. You are at work, stealing your
employer's time. Do you work for a government agency?

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 18:51:50 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote in Re Who actually owns this
1,000 gallon propane tank?:

No cooperative. Prices here are $5.00+/gallon. We are being screwed.

You must live in Ohio.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 03:19:31 +0000 (UTC), Alex Gunderson
wrote in Re Who
actually owns this 1,000 gallon propane tank?:

He told me the tank was owned by them.

When I looked surprised, I noticed he looked at his sheet, and then
he walked over to the tank and looked at the serial number on the
tank.

He then made a notation on the sheet that he needed to check things
out because I said I owned it and he had already said that I didn't.

I haven't heard back from him yet though ... (and at this point,
I hope I never do!).

This look suspicious.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

In article ,
Alex Gunderson wrote:

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 11:28:58 -0700, wrote:

So, who cares who owns it? As long as they aren't charging you for it,
the current company is the lowest cost propane supplier, and they keep
filling it, like others here I don't see the logic in shelling out $1000+
for a new tank when you have a free one.

I think I didn't make it clear that I was just lining up my ducks.

P
I asked the question only because I only recently found out that they
say they own it - and I expect them to say that I need to pay rent
at some point in the future.


But do they have any paperwork backing it up? As of now, it seems like
you can say (just as loudly) that you own it and your paperwork is at
least equal to their's as far as can be seen from afar.

--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

In article ,
Alex Gunderson wrote:


In fact, it was the very first question they asked me almost 5 years
ago, when I asked them to fill the tank for the first time.

Which would make me believe that they can't back up any indication
that they own it. Why else would they ask that question instead of just
saying here it is.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

The answer is 42.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/27/2013 4:25 PM, Alex Gunderson wrote:

I still don't know the answer to that key question ...

On Friday, September 27, 2013 10:44:39 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:45:59 -0700 (PDT), bob haller

wrote:



its probably best to keep the tank at least half full, in case some day OP cant get it filled.

Then keep a low profile and hope its forgotten about. repainting the tank is probably a good idea, to fix rust and cover possible ownership questions.



when OP is ready to sell home expect lots of unpleasant questions.....



Why? The questions weren't asked when he bought the house. If asked,

"It must be mine, it was there when I bought the house and no one has

ever told me otherwise." No lies. He's probably blown that argument

now, though. ;-)

The part about "no one has ever told me otherwise" would be a lie.
He stated that a worker for the company was there couple days ago,
looked up the serial # of the tank on their database
and said that it shows up as being the tank
of Company X along his address as the location Company X was his the gas supplier to the former owner and has now been bought by the current company.

But otherwise, I think we're pretty much on the same page. No
need to go get a new tank, start asking too many questions, etc.
Just keep doing what he's been doing and see what, if anything happens
next.

On Saturday, September 28, 2013 8:30:09 AM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,

Alex Gunderson wrote:





In fact, it was the very first question they asked me almost 5 years

ago, when I asked them to fill the tank for the first time.



Which would make me believe that they can't back up any indication

that they own it. Why else would they ask that question instead of just

saying here it is.

--



You're conflating two different time periods. The first was in 2010
when he bought the house. The gas company he chose, which is the company
he still has, is *not* the one the previous owner was using. So, the
new company shows up and asks who's tank it is. He tells them it's his
and I doubt each company has a database of all the other company's tanks
and locations. They can't prove who owns or doesn't own it, so that's
why they ask the question of who owns it and they accepted his word.

His current gas company later bought the previous gas company. So, presumably
they now have that former company's database of tanks. The other day,
a worker was there for service and while there he told him that his tank
shows up in their database as being owned by the former company and
located at his address. Presumbably they also have the records of the
former company too, which would be what would clearly establish that they
own it. If it comes to it, then I agree he should demand to see proof.
But I think we all agree for the time being, he should just wait and see.

How about I come out and steal it, and that
ends the thread?

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/27/2013 3:24 PM, Alex Gunderson wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 10:07:26 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Thanks, good attention to detail.

Well, bear in mind that the cost for the tank is less than
the cost to fill the tank just once, so, it's not so odd
that I'm trying to scope out my options.

I'm pretty convinced, by now, that the tank was not bought
by me - but - I'm not sure whether the original owner has
forfeited his rights to the tank, by sheer length of
abandonment laws.

I'm kind of stumped at this point, because I called the
county planning office who said they knew of no registration
of propane tank serial numbers with them.

So, I'm actually back to the original question of who owns
the tank - only the details have changed.

Either I own the tank because the original owner abandoned it;
or, the original owner owns the tank because they originally
owned that tank.

I guess I should move that question to a legal group?

In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:

How about I come out and steal it, and that
ends the thread?

.
And the insurance pays for a new one with clear title. win-win.
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 06:06:54 -0500, CRNG
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 18:51:50 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote in Re Who actually owns this
1,000 gallon propane tank?:

No cooperative. Prices here are $5.00+/gallon. We are being screwed.

You must live in Ohio.

Ohio looks to be half that.

It's a little old, but prices haven't gone up much.
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_...rs_dpgal_w.htm

I think he's being taken.

About three o'clock on wednesday work for you?

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 9/28/2013 10:18 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:

How about I come out and steal it, and that
ends the thread?

.
And the insurance pays for a new one with clear title. win-win.

wrote in message

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 06:06:54 -0500, CRNG
wrote:

On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 18:51:50 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote in
Re Who actually owns
this 1,000 gallon propane tank?:

No cooperative. Prices here are $5.00+/gallon. We
are being screwed.

You must live in Ohio.

Polk County Florida.

Ohio looks to be half that.

It's a little old, but prices haven't gone up much.
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_...rs_dpgal_w.htm

Depends on where you look. Here's a site showing what people actually pay.
http://www.checkpropaneprices.com/?f...many_to_one=FL

I think he's being taken.

Absolutely! Florida is consistently higher than most any other place and
Polk County is the highest (or close to) in Florida.

I'd change suppliers but they are few here; initially, they all start off
much lower but soon the price is again ridiculous.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 10:18:53 -0400, Kurt Ullman
wrote:

In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:

How about I come out and steal it, and that
ends the thread?

.
And the insurance pays for a new one with clear title. win-win.

No, the insurance company will refuse to pay because an unlicensed
(non-union) plumber disconnected it.

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 08:30:36 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

The answer is 42.

You have a 33% chance of being right. The answer has to be either
duct tape, WD-40, or 42.

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 06:21:13 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Friday, September 27, 2013 10:44:39 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:45:59 -0700 (PDT), bob haller

wrote:



its probably best to keep the tank at least half full, in case some day OP cant get it filled.

Then keep a low profile and hope its forgotten about. repainting the tank is probably a good idea, to fix rust and cover possible ownership questions.



when OP is ready to sell home expect lots of unpleasant questions.....



Why? The questions weren't asked when he bought the house. If asked,

"It must be mine, it was there when I bought the house and no one has

ever told me otherwise." No lies. He's probably blown that argument

now, though. ;-)

The part about "no one has ever told me otherwise" would be a lie.
He stated that a worker for the company was there couple days ago,
looked up the serial # of the tank on their database
and said that it shows up as being the tank
of Company X along his address as the location Company X was his the gas supplier to the former owner and has now been bought by the current company.

I meant before he opened his mouth. Let them tell him.

But otherwise, I think we're pretty much on the same page. No
need to go get a new tank, start asking too many questions, etc.
Just keep doing what he's been doing and see what, if anything happens
next.

He insists on making it far more difficult than it needs to be. If
the gas company puts up a stink, just get another. ...and they know
it, too.

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 10:18:53 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

And the insurance pays for a new one with clear title. win-win.

Actually, I could use a new propane tank, so, Stormin steals it,
and the OP gets the money from the insurance company, and I buy
it from Stormin (at a reduced cost, of course).

Win:Win:Win

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 08:28:31 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

But do they have any paperwork backing it up?

If/when it comes down to it, I will certainly say it's
my understanding that I own the tank by virtue of owning
the house.

I'll call the company that made the tank tomorrow to see if
they can track who originally bought the tank.

It's likely that this will come with the original propane
company - which would make sense.

I'll let you know what that query results in.

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 06:35:13 -0700, wrote:

The gas company he chose, which is the company he
still has, is *not* the one the previous owner was using. So, the new
company shows up and asks who's tank it is. He tells them it's his and I
doubt each company has a database of all the other company's tanks and
locations. They can't prove who owns or doesn't own it, so that's why they
ask the question of who owns it and they accepted his word.

Exactly!

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 06:21:13 -0700, wrote:

No need to go get a new tank, start asking too many questions, etc.
Just keep doing what he's been doing and see what, if anything happens

Here's my plan:

1. Continue (on the legal groups) to find out the law on
abandoned property in California (most likely a time period is
involved, which could be as long as forever).

2. Query the tank manufacturer to see who they sold the tank to
(most likely it's to the gas company that got bought).

3. Search to see which gas supplier is currently the cheapest
(but my vendor seems to be the cheapest most of the time)
http://www.southskyline.org/spug.html

4. Shut my mouth when talking to the propane company!

On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 14:31:15 -0400, krw wrote:

He insists on making it far more difficult than it needs to be. If the
gas company puts up a stink, just get another. ...and they know it, too.

In general, I'm told on the legal groups that there is apparently a 3-year
statute of limitations on whether a commercial entity can sue me to take
back their property and that 3-year period apparently starts at the point
at which the original lease defaulted.

Since the house was bought months after the original owners left it,
I presume that 3-year period long ago expired.

I don't know if a UCC-1 (uniform commercial code?) was filed, nor whether
that extends that 3-year time period.

So, tomorrow (Monday), I'll call the California Secretary of State to
figure out how this works.

I'll report back, since this question appears to have been asked many
times, but never really answered definitively. It's all hearsay (from
me anyway) until I have actual facts.

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 05:48:27 +0000 (UTC), Alex Gunderson
wrote in Re Who
actually owns this 1,000 gallon propane tank?:

Here's my plan:

Don't forget
5) Keep A.H.R. updated.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 03:38:30 -0500, CRNG wrote:

Don't forget 5) Keep A.H.R. updated.

To that end, apparently there is an almost exact case,
albeit in Maryland, for what I'm going through.
http://forums.somd.com/life-southern...ml#post4748909

In that situation, the owner of the house asserts that
a title search should uncover any ucc-1 forms filed
as liens against the property.

If no UCC-1 forms show up at the time of closing, then
the propane tank is yours, by virtue of the fact that
you 'thought' you bought the house free and clear.

In a way, this makes sense because otherwise owners will
never be able to sleep at night wondering if the neighbor
will saunter over and claim that the beer fridge is his.

Apparently this is a UCC-1 search engine, but it's down
right now:
http://sdatcert3.resiusa.org/UCC-Cha...CSearch_a.aspx

So, it appears there are two things protecting me, the first
of which is this three-year statute of limitations on claims
against property and this UCC-1 filing status.

I'll call the California Department of State to ask how I
find out the status of the UCC forms, if any.

I'm also going to contact the manufacturer of the tank.

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 06:55:08 +0000 (UTC), Alex Gunderson
wrote:



In general, I'm told on the legal groups that there is apparently a 3-year
statute of limitations on whether a commercial entity can sue me to take
back their property and that 3-year period apparently starts at the point
at which the original lease defaulted.

Since the house was bought months after the original owners left it,
I presume that 3-year period long ago expired.

Do you have a date the contract defaulted?
If the previous homeowner used that tank in the previous three years,
the clock had not started ticking yet.

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 09:25:12 +0000 (UTC), Alex Gunderson
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 03:38:30 -0500, CRNG wrote:

Don't forget 5) Keep A.H.R. updated.

To that end, apparently there is an almost exact case,
albeit in Maryland, for what I'm going through.
http://forums.somd.com/life-southern...ml#post4748909

In that situation, the owner of the house asserts that
a title search should uncover any ucc-1 forms filed
as liens against the property.

If no UCC-1 forms show up at the time of closing, then
the propane tank is yours, by virtue of the fact that
you 'thought' you bought the house free and clear.

If it was on going business between homeowner and propane company,
there would be no claim filed. If my car was parked in the driveway
at the time of closing, would you now own it? Seems like a shaky
premise here.

On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 05:58:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Do you have a date the contract defaulted?
If the previous homeowner used that tank in the previous three years,
the clock had not started ticking yet.

The previous owner had to stop paying before I bought the
property, so it's at least 4.5 years ago.

I found out from this URL that a propane tank is NOT real property:
Propane tanks are personal property
http://www.lawrenceyerkes.com/html/r...l-property.htm

I found an almost exact case described here but for MD:
http://forums.somd.com/life-southern...s-again-4.html

It seems, based on that nice description, the title search
should have turned up any liens such as those that would
be found by the propane company filing a California UCC-1
form.
http://www.sos.ca.gov/business/ucc/

And, I found this interesting article on abandoned property:
http://answers.uslegal.com/abandoned-property/24744/
May I keep a propane tank that came with property bought when lease on tank had ended?
04/28/2011 - Abandoned Property - State: CA #24744

They quote California statutes: California Civil Code, Section 2080.1,
but, that says I have to give it to the sheriff, which is impractical.

So, the whole thing is confusing, at best.

On 9/30/2013 1:16 AM, Danny D. wrote:
On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 10:18:53 -0400, Kurt Ullman wrote:

And the insurance pays for a new one with clear title. win-win.

Actually, I could use a new propane tank, so, Stormin steals it,
and the OP gets the money from the insurance company, and I buy
it from Stormin (at a reduced cost, of course).

Win:Win:Win

With the price of gas, I have to get a dime a mile for delivery.


..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Thursday, September 26, 2013 9:41:04 PM UTC-4, Alex Gunderson wrote:
But, what about "abandoned" property?

You are what's wrong with the country today.

All you are doing is trying to weasel your way into a "free" tank because you don't want to pay for tank rental.

Deep down you know who it belongs to, and that you should be paying the rental fee. It's only fair.

Either the previous homeowner or you were supposed to call and transfer that tank account to your name. Obviously the previous homeowner didn't care. Rather than do the upright and honest thing you kept your mouth shut.

You've had that tank rent free for however many years. Time to do the honest thing, own up, and pay the long-overdue bill.