Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
Hie everyone. I have a submersible pump with a fl 7 composite bladder
tank. The pump turns on at 40 and off at 60. Every time I flush the toilet, the pump turns on. Is this normal? I thought that the tank should hold more that 1 toilets worth of water. I don't know how much the toilet holds, house was built in 1991. Thanks in advance for the help. mcdonnep -- posted from http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ns-759822-.htm using HomeOwnersHub's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface to home and garden related groups |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
If withdrawing 5 gallons from your bladder tank is sufficient to cause it's pressure to drop below 40 psig, then the pump will come on every time the toilet is flushed. You may want to consider installing a much larger bladder tank. The bigger your tank, the less frequently your sump pump will come on, but the longer it will run each time it does come on. |
#3
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On 8/17/2013 2:44 PM, mcdonnep wrote:
Hie everyone. I have a submersible pump with a fl 7 composite bladder tank. The pump turns on at 40 and off at 60. Every time I flush the toilet, the pump turns on. Is this normal? I thought that the tank should hold more that 1 toilets worth of water. I don't know how much the toilet holds, house was built in 1991. Thanks in advance for the help. mcdonnep The tank is waterlogged -- you can try draining it entirely (after turning of pump, of oourse) and then checking the pressure. Should be 2 lb under the cut-in pressure -- 38 in your case. See if that will extend the life of the tank a little while -- but a new tank is in your future sooner rather than later. -- |
#4
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On 8/17/2013 3:50 PM, nestork wrote:
mcdonnep;3108582 Wrote: Hie everyone. I have a submersible pump with a fl 7 composite bladder tank. The pump turns on at 40 and off at 60. Every time I flush the toilet, the pump turns on. Is this normal? I thought that the tank should hold more that 1 toilets worth of water. I don't know how much the toilet holds, house was built in 1991. Thanks in advance for the help. Your toilet is probably 5 gallons per flush. If withdrawing 5 gallons from your bladder tank is sufficient to cause it's pressure to drop below 40 psig, then the pump will come on every time the toilet is flushed. You may want to consider installing a much larger bladder tank. The bigger your tank, the less frequently your sump pump will come on, but the longer it will run each time it does come on. Um, I didn't think you used a sump pump for potable water. O_o TDD |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Daring Dufas:
I think she means a well pump. That's a cylindrical pump that goes right down the water well. But it's still underwater, so it's just another kind of submersible pump. Dpb: If the tank were waterlogged, then the diphragm in the tank is torn. So, once you emptied the water out of the tank, the air pressure on the air side of the diaphragm would also leak out. So, why would you measure 38 psi? It would seem to me that with the tank empty and the diaphragm torn, the pressure on both sides of the torn diaphragm will be atmospheric pressure, wouldn't it? |
#6
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
mcdonnep wrote in
roups.com: Hie everyone. I have a submersible pump with a fl 7 composite bladder tank. The pump turns on at 40 and off at 60. Every time I flush the toilet, the pump turns on. Is this normal? I thought that the tank should hold more that 1 toilets worth of water. I don't know how much the toilet holds, house was built in 1991. Thanks in advance for the help. A little bit of Googling shows that the FL7 is a 22-gallon tank. If you're interested, ask, and I'll post the details of how I got to this figure... but I calculate that with your on/off pressures at 40/60, you can withdraw *no more than* 5.9 gallons from the tank before the pump kicks on. If you have a 5-gallon toilet, I'd expect the pump to come on nearly every time you flush it, about 17 times out of every 20. That is perfectly normal. If the toilet uses less water than 5 gallons per flush, this is *not* normal. For example, if it's a 1.6-gallon toilet, you should expect that, on average, the pump would run about one flush in every four. So before anyone can tell you (as some have tried to) that your pressure tank is definitely waterlogged, you need to tell us: (a) How much water the toilet uses per flush (should be marked inside the tank) (b) What happens if you flush the toilet, wait for the toilet to fill *and* for the pump to stop running, then flush it again? Does the pump kick on before the toilet fills, or not? (c) How often does the pump run in one hour if nobody is using any water at all? Any answer other than zero means you have a leak somewhere; the higher the number, the worse the leak. |
#7
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
nestork wrote in :
If the tank were waterlogged, then the diphragm in the tank is torn. So, once you emptied the water out of the tank, the air pressure on the air side of the diaphragm would also leak out. So, why would you measure 38 psi? It would seem to me that with the tank empty and the diaphragm torn, the pressure on both sides of the torn diaphragm will be atmospheric pressure, wouldn't it? If the system's open to the atmosphere, yes. That's why you close the shutoff valve before you pressurize the tank. |
#8
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On 8/17/2013 6:37 PM, nestork wrote:
Daring Dufas: I think she means a well pump. That's a cylindrical pump that goes right down the water well. But it's still underwater, so it's just another kind of submersible pump. Dpb: If the tank were waterlogged, then the diphragm in the tank is torn. So, once you emptied the water out of the tank, the air pressure on the air side of the diaphragm would also leak out. So, why would you measure 38 psi? It would seem to me that with the tank empty and the diaphragm torn, the pressure on both sides of the torn diaphragm will be atmospheric pressure, wouldn't it? There can be a pinhole leak that takes a long time to lose a significant amount of air so that if re-establish a new working pressure/volume one can often get by for quite some time. Or, of course, could have lost air to atmosphere thru a leak Schroeder valve and the bladder/diaphragm is fine... -- |
#9
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On 8/17/2013 6:37 PM, nestork wrote:
Daring Dufas: I think she means a well pump. That's a cylindrical pump that goes right down the water well. But it's still underwater, so it's just another kind of submersible pump. Dpb: If the tank were waterlogged, then the diphragm in the tank is torn. So, once you emptied the water out of the tank, the air pressure on the air side of the diaphragm would also leak out. So, why would you measure 38 psi? It would seem to me that with the tank empty and the diaphragm torn, the pressure on both sides of the torn diaphragm will be atmospheric pressure, wouldn't it? When I was a kid back on the family farm, we got our water from a natural spring that had been dug out and turned into a 2,000 gal reservoir with a little pump house built over it. The pump used to pump water to the house 100 yards away was a long cylindrical well pump. Perhaps my father used such a pump designed for a deep well because the water had to come up out of gully where the spring was and on to the house which was some distance away. There was a pressurized tank in the basement and as I remember, a toilet flush could start the pump running but those were the older (wasteful) toilets that actually flushed the contents down to the septic tank with one flush. It's been 40 years since I've seen it so my experience is a bit out of date but from what I've seen in other homes over the years, the basic well pump installations are all the same. ^_^ TDD |
#11
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
"Doug Miller" wrote in message
stuff snipped (b) What happens if you flush the toilet, wait for the toilet to fill *and* for the pump to stop running, then flush it again? Does the pump kick on before the toilet fills, or not? That's a good test because it eliminates any potential slow leak. (c) How often does the pump run in one hour if nobody is using any water at all? Any answer other than zero means you have a leak somewhere; the higher the number, the worse the leak. Also a good test. Both need to be performed to determine if there really is a leak. -- Bobby G. |
#12
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On Sat, 17 Aug 2013 15:52:35 -0500, dpb wrote in
Re frequent pump runs: On 8/17/2013 2:44 PM, mcdonnep wrote: Hie everyone. I have a submersible pump with a fl 7 composite bladder tank. The pump turns on at 40 and off at 60. Every time I flush the toilet, the pump turns on. Is this normal? I thought that the tank should hold more that 1 toilets worth of water. I don't know how much the toilet holds, house was built in 1991. Thanks in advance for the help. mcdonnep The tank is waterlogged -- you can try draining it entirely (after turning of pump, of oourse) and then checking the pressure. Should be 2 lb under the cut-in pressure -- 38 in your case. +1 on the "waterlogged". Here's a bit more detail on hot to correct. 1) Shut power to pump 2) Open a "lowest" sink or hose valve and drain tank completely. Leave valve open. 3) Add air pressure to you tank until you are at 38 psi. 4) Close the valve opened in (2) above. 5) Turn on pump. If the problem happens again in less than a year or two, you will need a new pressure tank, but can get by for as long as you are willing to repeat the above procedure. However that is not recommended as frequent cycling of the pump shortens it's life. See if that will extend the life of the tank a little while -- but a new tank is in your future sooner rather than later. -- Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one. Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those newspapers delivered to your door every morning. |
#13
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On 8/18/2013 7:56 AM, CRNG wrote:
On Sat, 17 Aug 2013 15:52:35 -0500, dpb wrote in Re frequent pump runs: On 8/17/2013 2:44 PM, mcdonnep wrote: Hie everyone. I have a submersible pump with a fl 7 composite bladder tank. The pump turns on at 40 and off at 60. Every time I flush the toilet, the pump turns on. Is this normal? I thought that the tank should hold more that 1 toilets worth of water. I don't know how much the toilet holds, house was built in 1991. Thanks in advance for the help. mcdonnep The tank is waterlogged -- you can try draining it entirely (after turning of pump, of oourse) and then checking the pressure. Should be 2 lb under the cut-in pressure -- 38 in your case. +1 on the "waterlogged". Here's a bit more detail on hot to correct. 1) Shut power to pump 2) Open a "lowest" sink or hose valve and drain tank completely. Leave valve open. 3) Add air pressure to you tank until you are at 38 psi. 4) Close the valve opened in (2) above. 5) Turn on pump. If the problem happens again in less than a year or two, you will need a new pressure tank, but can get by for as long as you are willing to repeat the above procedure. However that is not recommended as frequent cycling of the pump shortens it's life. I've never checked pressure in mine and note that last tank was installed 8 years ago. I had written on the tank that the installer said bladder pressure should be set at 25 - 28 pounds. This is third pressure tank on my well over its ~35 year lifetime. |
#14
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On 8/18/2013 8:19 AM, Frank wrote:
.... I've never checked pressure in mine and note that last tank was installed 8 years ago. I had written on the tank that the installer said bladder pressure should be set at 25 - 28 pounds. Should be 2-lb under the cut-in pressure -- which implies you're running a 30-50 cycle; pretty common as well... This is third pressure tank on my well over its ~35 year lifetime. Which averages out to about a dozen yr/tank which is about what one can expect on average -- it's quite possible OP can stretch the life of his for several more years depending on the state it's currently in and precisely where his leak is and how long it's been neglected in the current state. -- |
#15
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On Sunday, August 18, 2013 6:26:41 AM UTC-7, dpb wrote:
On 8/18/2013 8:19 AM, Frank wrote: ... I've never checked pressure in mine and note that last tank was installed 8 years ago. I had written on the tank that the installer said bladder pressure should be set at 25 - 28 pounds. Should be 2-lb under the cut-in pressure -- which implies you're running a 30-50 cycle; pretty common as well... This is third pressure tank on my well over its ~35 year lifetime. Which averages out to about a dozen yr/tank which is about what one can expect on average -- it's quite possible OP can stretch the life of his for several more years depending on the state it's currently in and precisely where his leak is and how long it's been neglected in the current state. -- ??? I have never heard of a tank going bad that fast and I have been mainintain my well and neighbors for a long, long time. My well was put in in the 80s and the tank is still alive and well. A tank failing in 6-7 years would have to be due to something in the water eating the tank or bladder. Harry K |
#16
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On 8/18/2013 8:54 AM, Harry K wrote:
.... ??? I have never heard of a tank going bad that fast and I have been mainintain my well and neighbors for a long, long time. My well was put in in the 80s and the tank is still alive and well. A tank failing in 6-7 years would have to be due to something in the water eating the tank or bladder. .... I don't think the quality of tanks/diaphragms is what it used to be is a large (the largest?) part of it -- the first on the new well here lasted nearly 30 yr; the replacement of it was also long-lived but not as long as that I'd guess; that was during the hiatus while was gone for 30-yr in VA/TN. In the fifteen yr since we've been back we're now on the third--counting the one that was failing when moved back...same batwell, same ba****er. I think next time I'm just going back to the old straight tank and air bubble over it -- sure, have to recharge occasionally but there's no bladder/diaphragm to fail. How much, if any, has to do w/ all the new EPA requirements on manufacturing so that the rubber compounds aren't what they used to be or how much is just seeing how cheaply they can be made I don't know, but I'd surely not bet on any new tanks lasting nearly what the old ones used to... -- |
#17
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
"Robert Green" wrote in news:kuqe35$u4m$1@dont-
email.me: "Doug Miller" wrote in message stuff snipped (b) What happens if you flush the toilet, wait for the toilet to fill *and* for the pump to stop running, then flush it again? Does the pump kick on before the toilet fills, or not? That's a good test because it eliminates any potential slow leak. The main reason it's a good test is that you *know* that the tank is as full of water as it's going to get when you perform it, and you *know* how much water will be withdrawn from the tank -- which means that you *know* that the pump _should not run_ (assuming a 5-gallon or less flush) -- which in turn means that if the pump does run, then you know the tank is waterlogged. |
#18
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 09:19:16 -0400, Frank
wrote in Re frequent pump runs: On 8/18/2013 7:56 AM, CRNG wrote: On Sat, 17 Aug 2013 15:52:35 -0500, dpb wrote in Re frequent pump runs: On 8/17/2013 2:44 PM, mcdonnep wrote: Hie everyone. I have a submersible pump with a fl 7 composite bladder tank. The pump turns on at 40 and off at 60. Every time I flush the toilet, the pump turns on. Is this normal? I thought that the tank should hold more that 1 toilets worth of water. I don't know how much the toilet holds, house was built in 1991. Thanks in advance for the help. mcdonnep The tank is waterlogged -- you can try draining it entirely (after turning of pump, of oourse) and then checking the pressure. Should be 2 lb under the cut-in pressure -- 38 in your case. +1 on the "waterlogged". Here's a bit more detail on hot to correct. 1) Shut power to pump 2) Open a "lowest" sink or hose valve and drain tank completely. Leave valve open. 3) Add air pressure to you tank until you are at 38 psi. 4) Close the valve opened in (2) above. 5) Turn on pump. If the problem happens again in less than a year or two, you will need a new pressure tank, but can get by for as long as you are willing to repeat the above procedure. However that is not recommended as frequent cycling of the pump shortens it's life. I've never checked pressure in mine and note that last tank was installed 8 years ago. I had written on the tank that the installer said bladder pressure should be set at 25 - 28 pounds. Well, if the pump power-on pressure is 40 psi, most people would set the empty tank bladder pressure to about 37 psi. I'm not sure what happens if you do that. This is third pressure tank on my well over its ~35 year lifetime. That seems like a lot. How do you know the tank really needed replacing and not just a recharge? -- Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one. Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those newspapers delivered to your door every morning. |
#19
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On Sunday, August 18, 2013 10:06:42 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 8/18/2013 8:54 AM, Harry K wrote: ... ??? I have never heard of a tank going bad that fast and I have been mainintain my well and neighbors for a long, long time. My well was put in in the 80s and the tank is still alive and well. A tank failing in 6-7 years would have to be due to something in the water eating the tank or bladder. ... I don't think the quality of tanks/diaphragms is what it used to be is a large (the largest?) part of it -- the first on the new well here lasted nearly 30 yr; the replacement of it was also long-lived but not as long as that I'd guess; that was during the hiatus while was gone for 30-yr in VA/TN. In the fifteen yr since we've been back we're now on the third--counting the one that was failing when moved back...same batwell, same ba****er. I think next time I'm just going back to the old straight tank and air bubble over it -- sure, have to recharge occasionally but there's no bladder/diaphragm to fail. You shouldn't have to recharge it. Before the bladder type tanks, the traditional ones for decades had simple self regulation systems that added air in automatically if needed. It's just that like everything else that after a long enough time they would fail too and then the tank would water log. |
#21
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
replying to nestork , mcdonnep wrote:
nestork.c560039 wrote: http://tinyurl.com/kkpo9rb Thanks for all of the advice. I am going to shut off the water, drain the tank, and reset the precharge on the tank to 38 psi. I will report back. thanks to all. -- posted from http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ns-759822-.htm using HomeOwnersHub's Web, RSS and Social Media Interface to home and garden related groups |
#22
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On 8/19/2013 11:44 AM, mcdonnep wrote:
replying to nestork , mcdonnep wrote: nestork.c560039 wrote: http://tinyurl.com/kkpo9rb Thanks for all of the advice. I am going to shut off the water, drain the tank, and reset the precharge on the tank to 38 psi. I will report back. thanks to all. While you've got the tank drained and open, pressurize a little over final setpoint and let sit for a little while and see if forces any additional water out. Also, while empty, check for whether there is still water in the tank--do you know for certain whether it is a bladder or diaphragm style tank? -- |
#23
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On Monday, August 19, 2013 12:39:57 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 8/19/2013 8:30 AM, wrote: ... I think next time I'm just going back to the old straight tank and air bubble over it -- sure, have to recharge occasionally but there's no bladder/diaphragm to fail. ... You shouldn't have to recharge it. Before the bladder type tanks, the traditional ones for decades had simple self regulation systems that added air in automatically if needed. It's just that like everything else that after a long enough time they would fail too and then the tank would water log. Never saw such; how'd that work? All we had until this new well ("new" as in drilled in the early-mid '60s) was just a "plain 'ol tank". -- It's basically a widget that goes onto a fitting opening on the side of the tank, about half up, ie at where the air level should be. It has a float or similar inside it that reacts to the water level. If the water level gets above the level of the tank fitting, it triggers a valve in the widget to open which is connected to the suction side of the pump. That allows a small amount of air to get sucked in. Each time the pump runs, that process works, until the air level is back to the level of the widget. http://www.walmart.com/ip/19320919?w...823956&veh=sem if the link doesn't work, just google "water tank air control" |
#24
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On 8/18/2013 12:48 PM, CRNG wrote:
On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 09:19:16 -0400, Frank wrote in Re frequent pump runs: On 8/18/2013 7:56 AM, CRNG wrote: On Sat, 17 Aug 2013 15:52:35 -0500, dpb wrote in Re frequent pump runs: On 8/17/2013 2:44 PM, mcdonnep wrote: Hie everyone. I have a submersible pump with a fl 7 composite bladder tank. The pump turns on at 40 and off at 60. Every time I flush the toilet, the pump turns on. Is this normal? I thought that the tank should hold more that 1 toilets worth of water. I don't know how much the toilet holds, house was built in 1991. Thanks in advance for the help. mcdonnep The tank is waterlogged -- you can try draining it entirely (after turning of pump, of oourse) and then checking the pressure. Should be 2 lb under the cut-in pressure -- 38 in your case. +1 on the "waterlogged". Here's a bit more detail on hot to correct. 1) Shut power to pump 2) Open a "lowest" sink or hose valve and drain tank completely. Leave valve open. 3) Add air pressure to you tank until you are at 38 psi. 4) Close the valve opened in (2) above. 5) Turn on pump. If the problem happens again in less than a year or two, you will need a new pressure tank, but can get by for as long as you are willing to repeat the above procedure. However that is not recommended as frequent cycling of the pump shortens it's life. I've never checked pressure in mine and note that last tank was installed 8 years ago. I had written on the tank that the installer said bladder pressure should be set at 25 - 28 pounds. Well, if the pump power-on pressure is 40 psi, most people would set the empty tank bladder pressure to about 37 psi. I'm not sure what happens if you do that. This is third pressure tank on my well over its ~35 year lifetime. That seems like a lot. How do you know the tank really needed replacing and not just a recharge? The other tanks were leaking externally. Well water around here can be tough on systems. We usually get about 7 years out of an electric hot water heater and sometimes get pinhole leaks in pipes although I have not seen one in several years. Well is working fine and not rapidly recycling. If it did, I would check pressure as I imagine bladder like a car tire would slowly lose air pressure. |
#27
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
|
#28
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On Monday, August 19, 2013 7:48:12 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 8/19/2013 5:14 PM, wrote: ... Yes, I guess I should have mentioned they only work on jet pumps where you have the suction side of the pump near the tank. Which is probably why you don't see them much these days. Years ago, many wells were shallow. With a submersible they can't be used. ... That's more a function of local water tables than "these or those" days. The water table here is 200-ft or so... -- Yes, depth is a factor, but here in NJ you used to be able to have a well at any depth. The old systems I saw from decades ago that had conventional tanks and jet pumps were wells that were 50 ft or less. Today you can't have a well less than 50 ft. A jet pump can still be used down to 100ft or so, but submersibles are more efficient. I haven't seen a residential potable water well put in around here in a long time, so don't know what they are using for those. But I've seen several irrigation wells at 50 ft or less and they all use submersibles. |
#29
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On Monday, August 19, 2013 10:10:14 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 19, 2013 7:48:12 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote: On 8/19/2013 5:14 PM, wrote: ... Yes, I guess I should have mentioned they only work on jet pumps where you have the suction side of the pump near the tank. Which is probably why you don't see them much these days. Years ago, many wells were shallow. With a submersible they can't be used. ... That's more a function of local water tables than "these or those" days. The water table here is 200-ft or so... -- Yes, depth is a factor, but here in NJ you used to be able to have a well at any depth. The old systems I saw from decades ago that had conventional tanks and jet pumps were wells that were 50 ft or less. Today you can't have a well less than 50 ft. A jet pump can still be used down to 100ft or so, but submersibles are more efficient. I haven't seen a residential potable water well put in around here in a long time, so don't know what they are using for those. But I've seen several irrigation wells at 50 ft or less and they all use submersibles. The submersibles as well as bladder tanks took a _lot_ of routine maintenance out of the system. Not much needs doing on a modern well anymore until something goes wrong. Harry K |
#30
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On 8/19/2013 11:48 AM, wrote:
On Monday, August 19, 2013 12:39:57 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote: On 8/19/2013 8:30 AM, wrote: ... I think next time I'm just going back to the old straight tank and air bubble over it -- sure, have to recharge occasionally but there's no bladder/diaphragm to fail. ... You shouldn't have to recharge it. Before the bladder type tanks, the traditional ones for decades had simple self regulation systems that added air in automatically if needed. It's just that like everything else that after a long enough time they would fail too and then the tank would water log. Never saw such; how'd that work? All we had until this new well ("new" as in drilled in the early-mid '60s) was just a "plain 'ol tank". -- It's basically a widget that goes onto a fitting opening on the side of the tank, about half up, ie at where the air level should be. It has a float or similar inside it that reacts to the water level. If the water level gets above the level of the tank fitting, it triggers a valve in the widget to open which is connected to the suction side of the pump. That allows a small amount of air to get sucked in. Each time the pump runs, that process works, until the air level is back to the level of the widget. http://www.walmart.com/ip/19320919?w...823956&veh=sem if the link doesn't work, just google "water tank air control" I took one apart recently that was similar to your description. In that one the widget had a diaphragm. One side of the diaphragm connected to the jet venturi, which was attached to the associated pump (shallow well). The other side the diaphragm was an air pump with check valves for air to the tank and for air into the pump. Not obvious why there is a pressure difference between the pump and tank when it cycles which is required to operate the air pump. |
#31
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On 8/20/2013 12:10 AM, wrote:
On Monday, August 19, 2013 7:48:12 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote: On 8/19/2013 5:14 PM, wrote: ... .... ... Years ago, many wells were shallow. ... .... That's more a function of local water tables than "these or those" days. The water table here is 200-ft or so... .... Yes, depth is a factor, but here in NJ you used to be able to have a well at any depth. The old systems I saw from decades ago that had conventional tanks and jet pumps were wells that were 50 ft or less. Today you can't have a well less than 50 ft. A jet pump .... That's pretty unusual geology; there's never been any water table here except the Ogallala that's roughly 200 ft or deeper. Farther east where there's surface-fed aquifers they may have some shallower wells. -- |
#32
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 6:06:36 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 8/20/2013 12:10 AM, wrote: On Monday, August 19, 2013 7:48:12 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote: On 8/19/2013 5:14 PM, wrote: ... ... ... Years ago, many wells were shallow. ... ... That's more a function of local water tables than "these or those" days. The water table here is 200-ft or so... ... Yes, depth is a factor, but here in NJ you used to be able to have a well at any depth. The old systems I saw from decades ago that had conventional tanks and jet pumps were wells that were 50 ft or less. Today you can't have a well less than 50 ft. A jet pump ... That's pretty unusual geology; there's never been any water table here except the Ogallala that's roughly 200 ft or deeper. Farther east where there's surface-fed aquifers they may have some shallower wells. -- Here in central NJ, there is one at around 50 ft. Next one is around 100, then 180 or so. It's really funny too. Here's what happens. Folks from the city move here and want a green lawn. So, they call up a well driller. Virtually every one of them winds up with a well at 100ft. The only thing is, it's full of iron. So, within year, the sidewalks, patios, pool decks, side of the house, front steps, etc are all orange from rust. It's one of the craziest things going on. There is more water at 100 ft, than at 50. But usually there is plenty of water, eg 15 gpm, at 50 ft and no iron. Yet, for some reason, these guys just go for the 100ft. A friend of mine had one put in a couple years ago. His at 50 ft is one of the few in the neighborhood that doesn't have the rust problem, because I told him what to do. Makes no sense, because these folks would pay the same amount or more for a well without the rust problem. I'm guessing the issue might be that the well drillers prefer to put in a well that they know will have plenty of water, even if it's bad, rather than run the risk that after they put a 50ft one in, the people bitch because it won't deliver enough water. |
#33
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
frequent pump runs
On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 3:06:36 PM UTC-7, dpb wrote:
On 8/20/2013 12:10 AM, wrote: On Monday, August 19, 2013 7:48:12 PM UTC-4, dpb wrote: On 8/19/2013 5:14 PM, wrote: ... ... ... Years ago, many wells were shallow. ... ... That's more a function of local water tables than "these or those" days. The water table here is 200-ft or so... ... Yes, depth is a factor, but here in NJ you used to be able to have a well at any depth. The old systems I saw from decades ago that had conventional tanks and jet pumps were wells that were 50 ft or less. Today you can't have a well less than 50 ft. A jet pump ... That's pretty unusual geology; there's never been any water table here except the Ogallala that's roughly 200 ft or deeper. Farther east where there's surface-fed aquifers they may have some shallower wells. -- Here in Eastern Washington (the Palouse) we have a very good shallow aquifer but odd geology - basically hundreds of feet of Loess soil blown in after the ice ages. I live in the bottom of a shallow valley containing my house, a highway, a year round ditch (usually, does dry up some years, headwater about a mile up valley). On my side of the highway I drilled a well: 24 gpm at 60ft, community well and house 1/4 mile downstream from me that used to support 4 families, shallow well with a shallow well pump (not a jet), plenty of water. 1/2 mile up from me neighbor drilled a new well that ran over the top of the casing when they hit the aquifer. He said it ran for four days before he capped it. Then on the opposite of the highway directly across from me is one house. It was on a windmill pump and cistern. Replaced with electric pump/tank - not enough flow. Drilled new well and got a 4gpm total accumulation after going through 3 seams (I was spectating while they were drilling) I don't recall the depth but they used every piece of drill pipe on the rig. Up from him a mile was on a sping with low flow, drilled well, same story: barely enough for flow to support the house barn. My well (24gpm/60 ft) and neighbor across the stream (4gpm over 90ft) are separated by no more than 200 ft. Harry K |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
well pump constantly runs? | Home Repair | |||
CH pump runs continuously, but ... | UK diy | |||
CH pump runs 24/7 | UK diy | |||
CH pump runs 24/7 | UK diy | |||
Low water pressue; well pump always runs | Home Ownership |