Had a biggish rennovation project done that involved replacing an old
(Potterton Netaheat) boiler with a new Vaillant Ecomax Pro boiler - 2
months ago. Incidentally, I have what I understand to be an
open-vented "S" plan system with two motorised valves. I retained the
original 2 channel programmer. The plumber (from Eastern Europe and
Corgi registered) who installed the boiler (on sub-contract from the
builder) never inspired me with much confidence. Maybe it's because
of recent stories about one-legged Romanian roofers :-).

Anyway, there's been a series of problems ever since. The boiler is
understood to be 100% OK - as confirmed by the Vaillant engineeer who
has visied twice.

The symptoms a-

1. Recently, the circulating pump (adjacent to the HW cylinder)
appears to be running continuously - even when the programmmer is not
calling for heat. It is set to operate to provide central heating and
hot water during two time periods per day.
The radiators warm up and cool down exactly in accordance with the
programmer schedule. The boiler fires up every 3 or 4 minutes and when
the boier display reaches 68 degrees it stops heating. The temperature
in the display drops slowly to around 45 and then the burner starts up
again. This cycle carries on 24/7 - even when the programmer is not in
an active period. Presumably it is trying to heat the HW cylinder as
the radiators stay cold when the programmmer is not in an active
period. This problem has emerged only recently.

2.If I over-ride the programmer during an active period ie to shut off
the heat, then the boiler stops OK but will not restart later on
theschedule. It registers an "overheat" situation and has to be reset
by taking off two cover plates and pressing the reset button. I
believe this is because the pump stops and hence the circulations
stops - causing the combustion chamber to trigger an over-heat
situation.

Factoids:-
After the boiler was first installed, there was no display on the
boiler when the programmer was inactive. I complained about this and
the builder brought in an electrician who connected a permanent mains
supply to give a fulltime display. We thought we were over all the
problems the problems then but a few weeks later problem 1. above
emerged.


The questions that spring to mind a-

1. Have I recently developed a a stuck motorised valve?
2. Did the plumber wire up the programmer correctly to the boiler?
3. What can I do to isolate/identify the problem further?
4. Where can I get a competent boiler installer cum plumber in South
London that can check this out.

JG

It sounds as though it's all wired wrong, so get the electrician back to do
it right.

In article ,
Jim wrote:
The questions that spring to mind a-

1. Have I recently developed a a stuck motorised valve?
2. Did the plumber wire up the programmer correctly to the boiler?
3. What can I do to isolate/identify the problem further?
4. Where can I get a competent boiler installer cum plumber in South
London that can check this out.

Sounds like you need a competent electrician. Boiler installers freqently
are anything but.

--
*'ome is where you 'ang your @ *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

There must be some serious wiring errors.
It would be a good idea if you provide the electrician with the data sheets
for all your controls and boiler and ask that he fix it and make a circuit
diagram of the installation for future reference.

Dave

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Jim wrote:

Had a biggish rennovation project done that involved replacing an old
(Potterton Netaheat) boiler with a new Vaillant Ecomax Pro boiler - 2
months ago. Incidentally, I have what I understand to be an
open-vented "S" plan system with two motorised valves. I retained the
original 2 channel programmer. The plumber (from Eastern Europe and
Corgi registered) who installed the boiler (on sub-contract from the
builder) never inspired me with much confidence. Maybe it's because
of recent stories about one-legged Romanian roofers :-).

Anyway, there's been a series of problems ever since. The boiler is
understood to be 100% OK - as confirmed by the Vaillant engineeer who
has visied twice.

The symptoms a-

1. Recently, the circulating pump (adjacent to the HW cylinder)
appears to be running continuously - even when the programmmer is not
calling for heat. It is set to operate to provide central heating and
hot water during two time periods per day.
The radiators warm up and cool down exactly in accordance with the
programmer schedule. The boiler fires up every 3 or 4 minutes and when
the boier display reaches 68 degrees it stops heating. The temperature
in the display drops slowly to around 45 and then the burner starts up
again. This cycle carries on 24/7 - even when the programmer is not in
an active period. Presumably it is trying to heat the HW cylinder as
the radiators stay cold when the programmmer is not in an active
period. This problem has emerged only recently.

2.If I over-ride the programmer during an active period ie to shut off
the heat, then the boiler stops OK but will not restart later on
theschedule. It registers an "overheat" situation and has to be reset
by taking off two cover plates and pressing the reset button. I
believe this is because the pump stops and hence the circulations
stops - causing the combustion chamber to trigger an over-heat
situation.

Factoids:-
After the boiler was first installed, there was no display on the
boiler when the programmer was inactive. I complained about this and
the builder brought in an electrician who connected a permanent mains
supply to give a fulltime display. We thought we were over all the
problems the problems then but a few weeks later problem 1. above
emerged.


The questions that spring to mind a-

1. Have I recently developed a a stuck motorised valve?
2. Did the plumber wire up the programmer correctly to the boiler?
3. What can I do to isolate/identify the problem further?
4. Where can I get a competent boiler installer cum plumber in South
London that can check this out.

JG

It sounds like you need an electrician who understands heating systems. It
needs to be wired as per S-Plan in
http://content.honeywell.com/uk/homes/systems.htm except that the boiler
almost certainly has 3 'live' terminals - a permanent live, a switched live
(to be connected as per L in the diagram) and a pump feed. The pump's live
needs to be fed from the boiler's pump feed terminal. That way, the boiler
will keep the pump running for a bit after it has stopped firing, to prevent
overheating.

There must also be (in the plumbing rather than electrics) a by-pass circuit
to give the water somewhere to go during the pump over-run phase when both
zone valves are closed. Have you got one?

Unless you've got a frost stat which over-rides the timer, neither the
boiler nor the pump should run when the timers are off.
--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

Jim wrote:


The questions that spring to mind a-

1. Have I recently developed a a stuck motorised valve?

Could be. I'd say thh DHW valve is stuck uif te radiators are beahving
normally. You'd epexct short cycling, and very hot DHW if that was teh case.

2. Did the plumber wire up the programmer correctly to the boiler?

Who knows. It's an issue. It may be that in order to get the display on,
he has inadvertantly also made the boiler and pump on all the time.

On my boiler, short of cutting interanl wires, the (integral) pump will
run all the time if the boiler has power.

You say this problem was not present when the 'permanent LCD display'
was activated? Are you sure?

3. What can I do to isolate/identify the problem further?

Check where the water is running. I assume the rads don't get hot on the
short cycling, so check if the water tank and its primary are
contunously hot, and also check phsyically the motorised DHW valve to
see if the microswitch is permanently stuck on. Also arrange to vbe near
that valve and switch off teh whole bolier ekectricity. See if you can
hear or see it moving.


4. Where can I get a competent boiler installer cum plumber in South
London that can check this out.

You are it IMHO. :-)


I see two basic explanations - DHW motorised valve stuck on, or the
boiler is not being controlled by the motorised valves properly, and is
in fact hard wired to be permanently on.




JG

I think there is a problem with the pump over-run as set square mentioned,
there is a permanent live feed to the boiler which is designed to run the
pump even if the timer is off. Basically to get rid of the heat from the
heat exchanger, that's why you overheat when you over ride the controls. I`m
not sure on the Vaillant Ecomax but there are two main methods of
controlling the over run. The first is off the board, usually off a relay
and the second is off the boiler thermostat. Is there anything in the user
guide that helps?

Andy

"Jim" wrote in message
om...
Had a biggish rennovation project done that involved replacing an old
(Potterton Netaheat) boiler with a new Vaillant Ecomax Pro boiler - 2
months ago. Incidentally, I have what I understand to be an
open-vented "S" plan system with two motorised valves. I retained the
original 2 channel programmer. The plumber (from Eastern Europe and
Corgi registered) who installed the boiler (on sub-contract from the
builder) never inspired me with much confidence. Maybe it's because
of recent stories about one-legged Romanian roofers :-).

Anyway, there's been a series of problems ever since. The boiler is
understood to be 100% OK - as confirmed by the Vaillant engineeer who
has visied twice.

The symptoms a-

1. Recently, the circulating pump (adjacent to the HW cylinder)
appears to be running continuously - even when the programmmer is not
calling for heat. It is set to operate to provide central heating and
hot water during two time periods per day.
The radiators warm up and cool down exactly in accordance with the
programmer schedule. The boiler fires up every 3 or 4 minutes and when
the boier display reaches 68 degrees it stops heating. The temperature
in the display drops slowly to around 45 and then the burner starts up
again. This cycle carries on 24/7 - even when the programmer is not in
an active period. Presumably it is trying to heat the HW cylinder as
the radiators stay cold when the programmmer is not in an active
period. This problem has emerged only recently.

2.If I over-ride the programmer during an active period ie to shut off
the heat, then the boiler stops OK but will not restart later on
theschedule. It registers an "overheat" situation and has to be reset
by taking off two cover plates and pressing the reset button. I
believe this is because the pump stops and hence the circulations
stops - causing the combustion chamber to trigger an over-heat
situation.

Factoids:-
After the boiler was first installed, there was no display on the
boiler when the programmer was inactive. I complained about this and
the builder brought in an electrician who connected a permanent mains
supply to give a fulltime display. We thought we were over all the
problems the problems then but a few weeks later problem 1. above
emerged.


The questions that spring to mind a-

1. Have I recently developed a a stuck motorised valve?
2. Did the plumber wire up the programmer correctly to the boiler?
3. What can I do to isolate/identify the problem further?
4. Where can I get a competent boiler installer cum plumber in South
London that can check this out.

JG

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim wrote:
The questions that spring to mind a-

1. Have I recently developed a a stuck motorised valve?
2. Did the plumber wire up the programmer correctly to the boiler?
3. What can I do to isolate/identify the problem further?
4. Where can I get a competent boiler installer cum plumber in South
London that can check this out.

Sounds like you need a competent electrician. Boiler installers freqently
are anything but.

He needs a heating engineer. Electricians know nothing of heating system
operation, unless he specialises in heating control wiring and is employed
by a heating contractor.

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:39:30 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:

snip some ****e

Why do you bother? **** off and die.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:39:30 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:

snip some ****e

Why do you bother? **** off and die.

Your ISP may get to know of your insults.

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:39:30 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:

snip some ****e

Why do you bother? **** off and die.


LOL !!!!

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:35:03 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:

Your ISP may get to know of your insults.

Oh no, what will I do.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Sounds like you need a competent electrician. Boiler installers
freqently are anything but.

He needs a heating engineer. Electricians know nothing of heating
system operation, unless he specialises in heating control wiring and is
employed by a heating contractor.

Which proves beyond any reasonable doubt that you're no heating engineer,
given your lack of knowledge of anything electrical.

FWIW, a competent electrician will have no problems with any domestic
heating control gear wiring. They are simplicity itself for a competent
electrician. Difficult for a 'heating engineer' to understand this, I'll
grant you.

--
*Many people quit looking for work when they find a job *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:35:03 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:

Your ISP may get to know of your insults.

Oh no, what will I do.

You will know when they contact you.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
IMM wrote:

Sounds like you need a competent electrician. Boiler installers
freqently are anything but.

He needs a heating engineer. Electricians
know nothing of heating
system operation, unless he specialises
in heating control wiring and is
employed by a heating contractor.

Which proves beyond any reasonable
doubt that you're no heating engineer,

Imbecile you are wrong.

given your lack of knowledge of anything electrical.

My knowledge of electrical matters is excellent and above excellent.

I have told you before. Don't give advice on topics you know sweet FA
about.

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:53:04 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:

You will know when they contact you.

Yeah, right.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:58:39 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:

My knowledge of electrical matters is excellent and above excellent.

You are total ****wit.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
IMM wrote:

Sounds like you need a competent electrician. Boiler installers
freqently are anything but.

He needs a heating engineer. Electricians
know nothing of heating
system operation, unless he specialises
in heating control wiring and is
employed by a heating contractor.

Which proves beyond any reasonable
doubt that you're no heating engineer,

Imbecile you are wrong.

given your lack of knowledge of anything electrical.

My knowledge of electrical matters is excellent and above excellent.

I have told you before. Don't give advice on topics you know sweet FA
about.


If a fly by night sparks can't wire up controls for a simple heating system,
then he is not a qualified electrician. The electrical supply system for
central heating is simplicity itself to a good electrician. It contains a
wiring scheme for simple switching systems that any good electrician could
work out in his sleep. A good plumber might have some knowledge of how the
wiring works, but any good electrician should know exactly how and where
things should go without problems.

In article ,
BigWallop wrote:
If a fly by night sparks can't wire up controls for a simple heating
system, then he is not a qualified electrician. The electrical supply
system for central heating is simplicity itself to a good electrician.
It contains a wiring scheme for simple switching systems that any good
electrician could work out in his sleep. A good plumber might have some
knowledge of how the wiring works, but any good electrician should know
exactly how and where things should go without problems.

Absolutely. Of course all IMMs 'trade' pals use PP drills, so aren't even
worthy of the name 'cowboy'.

Still, the more he goes on about it needing a 'specialist' to wire up
domestic heating controls, the more it shows he has no practical
experience in such things.

--
*I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman
(News) wrote:
FWIW, a competent electrician will have no problems with any
domestic heating control gear wiring.

Installing, no. Trying to unpick someone else's attempts -
especially when the green/yellow has been pressed into service
- might be a different matter

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman
(News) wrote:
FWIW, a competent electrician will have no problems with any
domestic heating control gear wiring.

Installing, no. Trying to unpick someone else's attempts -
especially when the green/yellow has been pressed into service
- might be a different matter



But any good electrician wouldn't try to unpick an obvious mess, they'd pull
it all out and start again.

In article ,
BigWallop wrote:
FWIW, a competent electrician will have no problems with any
domestic heating control gear wiring.

Installing, no. Trying to unpick someone else's attempts - especially
when the green/yellow has been pressed into service - might be a
different matter


But any good electrician wouldn't try to unpick an obvious mess, they'd
pull it all out and start again.

Yup. It's often quicker that way. If it looks like a bodge, it is, so best
to start again.

--
*Santa's helpers are subordinate clauses.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"BigWallop" wrote in message
. ..

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman
(News) wrote:
FWIW, a competent electrician will have no problems with any
domestic heating control gear wiring.

Installing, no. Trying to unpick someone else's attempts -
especially when the green/yellow has been pressed into service
- might be a different matter

But any good electrician wouldn't try to
unpick an obvious mess, they'd pull
it all out and start again.

If the electrician does not understand the functionality or operation of the
system then he is useless. Pulling in a doemstic electrician who does ring
mains and lights is a waste of time.

"BigWallop" wrote in message
. ..

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
IMM wrote:

Sounds like you need a competent electrician. Boiler installers
freqently are anything but.

He needs a heating engineer. Electricians
know nothing of heating
system operation, unless he specialises
in heating control wiring and is
employed by a heating contractor.

Which proves beyond any reasonable
doubt that you're no heating engineer,

Imbecile you are wrong.

given your lack of knowledge of anything electrical.

My knowledge of electrical matters is excellent and above excellent.

I have told you before. Don't give advice on topics you know sweet FA
about.


If a fly by night sparks can't wire up controls for a simple heating
system,
then he is not a qualified electrician. The electrical supply system for
central heating is simplicity itself to a good electrician. It contains a
wiring scheme for simple switching systems that any good electrician could
work out in his sleep. A good plumber might have some knowledge of how
the
wiring works, but any good electrician should know exactly how and where
things should go without problems.

Total tripe.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,

BigWallop wrote:
If a fly by night sparks can't wire up controls for a simple heating
system, then he is not a qualified electrician. The electrical supply
system for central heating is simplicity itself to a good electrician.
It contains a wiring scheme for simple switching systems that any good
electrician could work out in his sleep. A good plumber might have some
knowledge of how the wiring works, but any good electrician should know
exactly how and where things should go without problems.

Our ng fool interjects....

Absolutely. Of course all IMMs 'trade' pals use PP drills, so aren't even
worthy of the name 'cowboy'.

......and continues....

Still, the more he goes on about it needing a 'specialist' to wire up
domestic heating controls, the more it shows he has no practical
experience in such things.

This is a bit rich coming from incompetent. Here is this Plowman giving
advice on CH..read on...

He also attempts to give advice and criticise views on heating, yet he said
about his gas boier.......

"Mine managed over 10 years without being touched before it needed a clean.
'Sooting up' once it starts, happens very quickly."

He didn't have his gas boiler serviced for over 10 years, and knows all the
answers in this field - he thinks. Only on the Internet you see this.

These people are dangerous, very dangerous.

This what he wears, yes he does...he said...

"Well, I got a rather flash pair of DeWalt boots from TLC, so there.;-)"

Sad isn't it. Big yellow boots. Yes. big yellow boots. Such a saddo.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"BigWallop" wrote in message
. ..

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
IMM wrote:

snipped
the
wiring works, but any good electrician should know exactly how and where
things should go without problems.

Total tripe.


You don't know much about electrical switching systems then? A good
electrician should be able to connect timers and switches for any type of
control system, even without the help of the instruction booklet. By
tracing which and what should go where, this should be a simple enough job
for any good electrician because of the basic principles of these types of
system. If they can't, then they shouldn't be allowed to call themselves a
qualified electrician.

We're not talking about fault finding to PCB component level here, we're
talking about the basic wiring of switch gear which any good electrician
should know the basics of, even if the switch is controlled by a clock.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"BigWallop" wrote in message
. ..

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman
(News) wrote:
FWIW, a competent electrician will have no problems with any
domestic heating control gear wiring.

Installing, no. Trying to unpick someone else's attempts -
especially when the green/yellow has been pressed into service
- might be a different matter

But any good electrician wouldn't try to
unpick an obvious mess, they'd pull
it all out and start again.

If the electrician does not understand the functionality or operation of
the
system then he is useless. Pulling in a doemstic electrician who does
ring
mains and lights is a waste of time.


Excuse me here, but I started by wiring barracks and military camp sites all
over the world. I also had to learn the wiring systems of vehicles. When I
finished my military career I moved on to the mining industry and mineral
ore treatment plants. I'd say that even my basic skills as an electrical
engineer have stood me in good stead when it came to connecting simple
switches for many types of system control. How a switch works is usually
the first thing you learn about circuit control gear.

If I couldn't connect a central heating control system, right from scratch
without the instruction manuals, and make it work properly first time when
it was switch on. Then I'd go back and get my gun and use it on myself.

If it is true what you say about today's electricians and their training,
then things really have gone to the dogs.

In article ,
IMM wrote:
But any good electrician wouldn't try to
unpick an obvious mess, they'd pull
it all out and start again.

If the electrician does not understand the functionality or operation of
the system then he is useless.

Yup. Now which part of competent didn't you understand? I know your use of
English is poor, but I thought you could at least read it.

Pulling in a doemstic electrician who does ring
mains and lights is a waste of time.

You need to get out more and meet some *real* tradespeople. Just because
you can barely fit a new plug or cut plastic pipe properly doesn't apply
to all.

--
*Go the extra mile. It makes your boss look like an incompetent slacker *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Still, the more he goes on about it needing a 'specialist' to wire up
domestic heating controls, the more it shows he has no practical
experience in such things.

This is a bit rich coming from incompetent. Here is this Plowman giving
advice on CH..read on...

No pet - wiring. Something I do understand.

I'll snip the rest to save bandwidth. Perhaps you could do the same - or
find something new to say?

--
*I took an IQ test and the results were negative.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"BigWallop" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"BigWallop" wrote in message
. ..

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
IMM wrote:

snipped
the
wiring works, but any good electrician should know exactly how and
where
things should go without problems.

Total tripe.


You don't know much about
electrical switching systems then?

I know a hell of a lot, you better believe me.

A good electrician should be able
to connect timers and switches for any type of
control system,

He will be able to connect them, and the work would be OK, but would it
work? They have to know about heating systems. Most of them would not know
what is a boiler pump over-run, or why ther shoudl be one. I have met them
and they really don't know. A professional heating man has to tell them
what he wants and then test the functionality to ensure it works.

snip babble

"BigWallop" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"BigWallop" wrote in message
. ..

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Plowman
(News) wrote:
FWIW, a competent electrician will have no problems with any
domestic heating control gear wiring.

Installing, no. Trying to unpick someone else's attempts -
especially when the green/yellow has been pressed into service
- might be a different matter

But any good electrician wouldn't try to
unpick an obvious mess, they'd pull
it all out and start again.

If the electrician does not understand the
functionality or operation of the
system then he is useless. Pulling in a
doemstic electrician who does ring
mains and lights is a waste of time.

Excuse me here, but I started by wiring
barracks and military camp sites

You have to know what the hell you are controlling. I wouldn't trust you to
wire complex heating system at all.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
IMM wrote:
But any good electrician wouldn't try to
unpick an obvious mess, they'd pull
it all out and start again.

If the electrician does not understand the functionality or operation of
the system then he is useless.

Yup. Now

snip loonacy

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
IMM wrote:

Still, the more he goes on about it needing a 'specialist' to wire up
domestic heating controls, the more it shows he has no practical
experience in such things.

This is a bit rich coming from incompetent. Here is this Plowman giving
advice on CH..read on...

No pet - wiring. Something I do understand.

You don't understand heating at all.

"IMM" wrote in message
...

"BigWallop" wrote in message
...

"IMM" wrote in message
...

snipped
Excuse me here, but I started by wiring
barracks and military camp sites

You have to know what the hell you are controlling. I wouldn't trust you
to
wire complex heating system at all.


What would you class as complex in switching things on and off?

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:47:59 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:

Total tripe.

Total ****wit, **** off and die.
--

SJW
Please reply to group or use 'usenet' in email subject

"Lurch" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:47:59 -0000, "IMM" strung
together this:

Total tripe.

Total ****wit, **** off and die.

This one has serious mental problems. He is cracking up. Get it seen to
ASAP.

On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 06:12:15 -0800, Jim wrote:

Had a biggish rennovation project done that involved replacing an old
(Potterton Netaheat) boiler with a new Vaillant Ecomax Pro boiler - 2
months ago. Incidentally, I have what I understand to be an
open-vented "S" plan system with two motorised valves. I retained the
original 2 channel programmer. The plumber (from Eastern Europe and
Corgi registered) who installed the boiler (on sub-contract from the
builder) never inspired me with much confidence. Maybe it's because
of recent stories about one-legged Romanian roofers :-).

Anyway, there's been a series of problems ever since. The boiler is
understood to be 100% OK - as confirmed by the Vaillant engineeer who
has visied twice.

The symptoms a-

1. Recently, the circulating pump (adjacent to the HW cylinder)
appears to be running continuously - even when the programmmer is not
calling for heat. It is set to operate to provide central heating and
hot water during two time periods per day.
The radiators warm up and cool down exactly in accordance with the
programmer schedule. The boiler fires up every 3 or 4 minutes and when
the boier display reaches 68 degrees it stops heating. The temperature
in the display drops slowly to around 45 and then the burner starts up
again. This cycle carries on 24/7 - even when the programmer is not in
an active period. Presumably it is trying to heat the HW cylinder as
the radiators stay cold when the programmmer is not in an active
period. This problem has emerged only recently.

2.If I over-ride the programmer during an active period ie to shut off
the heat, then the boiler stops OK but will not restart later on
theschedule. It registers an "overheat" situation and has to be reset
by taking off two cover plates and pressing the reset button. I
believe this is because the pump stops and hence the circulations
stops - causing the combustion chamber to trigger an over-heat
situation.

Factoids:-
After the boiler was first installed, there was no display on the
boiler when the programmer was inactive. I complained about this and
the builder brought in an electrician who connected a permanent mains
supply to give a fulltime display. We thought we were over all the
problems the problems then but a few weeks later problem 1. above
emerged.


The questions that spring to mind a-

1. Have I recently developed a a stuck motorised valve?
2. Did the plumber wire up the programmer correctly to the boiler?
3. What can I do to isolate/identify the problem further?
4. Where can I get a competent boiler installer cum plumber in South
London that can check this out.


1. No idea.
2. Quite probably.
3. Make a diagram, take your time, read and understand the FAQ on heating
controls.
4. If you pay enough you will eventually find the ones who are competant.

I'm intrigued that the Eastern european was already CORGI registered. How
long had he been here? Did you actually see his card or were you told he
was registered? His English would have to be pretty good to get through
the exams.

I thought Ecomaxs had integral pumps.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:11:21 +0000, Tony Bryer wrote:

In article , Dave Plowman
(News) wrote:
FWIW, a competent electrician will have no problems with any
domestic heating control gear wiring.

Installing, no. Trying to unpick someone else's attempts -
especially when the green/yellow has been pressed into service
- might be a different matter

This is quite true. On Tueday lateish pm I went to sort out: 'Pumps runs
all the while, there are spitting noises which keep me awake'.

Found sealed system with 3 zone S-plan ( 1 heating and 2 water zones).

Bled air from pipes - greatly reduced the spitting - which was air
bubbles going through closed zone valves.
When I started to investigate I realized there was a rat's nest of wiring
to sort out including a relay unit.

I explained to the customer it might take me more time than I had left
today.

The next day I found that both zone valves for the water had failed
motors. I guess that small amount of leakage past the closed valves
combined with the 24/7 pump was just enough to keep the water hot enough
for their needs.

Turned out that all the wiring was correct except for an extra link in the
boiler. On a label in the boiler it said explicitly remove link or pump
will run continously when using external controls.
Also the relay unit was totally redundant and wired so as to emulate a
piece of wire, nice piece of salvage 8-).




--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

In message , BigWallop
writes



You don't know much about electrical switching systems then? A good
electrician should be able to connect timers and switches for any type of
control system, even without the help of the instruction booklet. By
tracing which and what should go where, this should be a simple enough job
for any good electrician because of the basic principles of these types of
system. If they can't, then they shouldn't be allowed to call themselves a
qualified electrician.

We're not talking about fault finding to PCB component level here, we're
talking about the basic wiring of switch gear which any good electrician
should know the basics of, even if the switch is controlled by a clock.

Well actually, perm. pump is a common failure with certain PCBs (e.g.
Solo 2)

I missed (or have forgotten) the start of this thread, which boiler are
we talking about here ?

my area of expertise ...

OK - back to DIMM bashing everyone

--
geoff

In article ,
IMM wrote:
Most of them would not know what is a boiler pump over-run, or why ther
shoudl be one. I have met them and they really don't know. A
professional heating man has to tell them what he wants and then test
the functionality to ensure it works.

Perhaps then you'd post here - or give a link - to just how you'd arrange
for a pump over-run on a system where the boiler doesn't provide it? So we
can all have a good laugh...

--
*Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid altogether *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.