I know very little about this topic, including what the correct terminology
is. And, this is mostly just a curiosity question on my part.

But, I am curious as to what it roughly might cost for a typical gas station
to have an electrician install a mechanism where if the power goes out in
the neighborhood, a portable gas generator could be plugged in to the
electrical system to power the station and keep the lights and cash
registers on and pump gas to the public. I am not that interested in the
cost of the actual generators for this purpose -- just the cost to have the
electrical switch-over circuits installed and ready to be used if needed.

Why? -- because I am often amazed when there is a hurricane or other natural
disaster that knocks the power out in a region, and thousands of people need
gas to evacuate, plus emergency services vehicles need gas to operate during
the disaster -- but the gas stations with tens of thousands of gallons of
gas stored underground are all closed because they have no power to pump the
gas that they have.

On 7/15/2013 3:55 PM, TomR wrote:
I know very little about this topic, including what the correct terminology
is. And, this is mostly just a curiosity question on my part.

But, I am curious as to what it roughly might cost for a typical gas station
to have an electrician install a mechanism where if the power goes out in
the neighborhood, a portable gas generator could be plugged in to the
electrical system to power the station and keep the lights and cash
registers on and pump gas to the public. I am not that interested in the
cost of the actual generators for this purpose -- just the cost to have the
electrical switch-over circuits installed and ready to be used if needed.

Why? -- because I am often amazed when there is a hurricane or other natural
disaster that knocks the power out in a region, and thousands of people need
gas to evacuate, plus emergency services vehicles need gas to operate during
the disaster -- but the gas stations with tens of thousands of gallons of
gas stored underground are all closed because they have no power to pump the
gas that they have.

I'm amazed that some facilities in areas prone to storm surges or
flooding place their emergency generators at or below grade. Storm
hits, storage area, crawl space, or basement fills with water, and
goodbye generator. Maybe that's what happens in a lot of cases with
these gas stations. It happened with hospitals in New Orleans during
Katrina.

"TomR" wrote in message
...
I know very little about this topic, including what the correct terminology
is. And, this is mostly just a curiosity question on my part.

But, I am curious as to what it roughly might cost for a typical gas
station to have an electrician install a mechanism where if the power goes
out in the neighborhood, a portable gas generator could be plugged in to
the electrical system to power the station and keep the lights and cash
registers on and pump gas to the public. I am not that interested in the
cost of the actual generators for this purpose -- just the cost to have
the electrical switch-over circuits installed and ready to be used if
needed.

Why? -- because I am often amazed when there is a hurricane or other
natural disaster that knocks the power out in a region, and thousands of
people need gas to evacuate, plus emergency services vehicles need gas to
operate during the disaster -- but the gas stations with tens of thousands
of gallons of gas stored underground are all closed because they have no
power to pump the gas that they have.


They can range from simple metal plates that are installed so you can not
have the main breaker on while the breaker for the generator is on, to a
seperate transfer panel.

The cost can be from less than $ 100 to $ 500 for the devices not counting
the labor to install them. I wold guess the electrician would not charge
more than $ 500 to $ 1500 for the more complicated systems. Probably less
than $ 100 or minimum service call to install the interlock plate thing.

Here is a link to the interlock plate so you can see how simple it is.
Almost anyone can install them.

http://www.interlockkit.com/

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:55:15 -0400, "TomR" wrote:




Why? -- because I am often amazed when there is a hurricane or other natural
disaster that knocks the power out in a region, and thousands of people need
gas to evacuate, plus emergency services vehicles need gas to operate during
the disaster -- but the gas stations with tens of thousands of gallons of
gas stored underground are all closed because they have no power to pump the
gas that they have.


I read that some states either have or are trying to pass laws that
some stations must have generators. They were targeting the ones on
main evacuation routes.

The problem that I see is that many of the stations are operated by
small dealers and to spend $5000 to $10,000 for generation does not
have a payback. It could if they were allowed to jack the price a
buck when operating from generators.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:55:15 -0400, "TomR" wrote:


Why? -- because I am often amazed when there is a hurricane or other natural
disaster that knocks the power out in a region, and thousands of people need
gas to evacuate, plus emergency services vehicles need gas to operate during
the disaster -- but the gas stations with tens of thousands of gallons of
gas stored underground are all closed because they have no power to pump the
gas that they have.


I read that some states either have or are trying to pass laws that
some stations must have generators. They were targeting the ones on
main evacuation routes.

The problem that I see is that many of the stations are operated by
small dealers and to spend $5000 to $10,000 for generation does not
have a payback. It could if they were allowed to jack the price a
buck when operating from generators.

They could increase the price some while on generator. Most states price
gouging laws limit the increase rather than preventing any increase.

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
m...

"TomR" wrote in message
...
I know very little about this topic, including what the correct
terminology is. And, this is mostly just a curiosity question on my part.

But, I am curious as to what it roughly might cost for a typical gas
station to have an electrician install a mechanism where if the power
goes out in the neighborhood, a portable gas generator could be plugged
in to the electrical system to power the station and keep the lights and
cash registers on and pump gas to the public. I am not that interested
in the cost of the actual generators for this purpose -- just the cost to
have the electrical switch-over circuits installed and ready to be used
if needed.

Why? -- because I am often amazed when there is a hurricane or other
natural disaster that knocks the power out in a region, and thousands of
people need gas to evacuate, plus emergency services vehicles need gas to
operate during the disaster -- but the gas stations with tens of
thousands of gallons of gas stored underground are all closed because
they have no power to pump the gas that they have.


They can range from simple metal plates that are installed so you can not
have the main breaker on while the breaker for the generator is on, to a
seperate transfer panel.

The cost can be from less than $ 100 to $ 500 for the devices not counting
the labor to install them. I wold guess the electrician would not charge
more than $ 500 to $ 1500 for the more complicated systems. Probably less
than $ 100 or minimum service call to install the interlock plate thing.

Here is a link to the interlock plate so you can see how simple it is.
Almost anyone can install them.

http://www.interlockkit.com/


Thanks. I don't know what the typical gas station electric service setup
would be -- meaning how many amps, whether single phase or 3-phase, etc.

"TomR" wrote in message
...

Thanks. I don't know what the typical gas station electric service setup
would be -- meaning how many amps, whether single phase or 3-phase, etc.

Depending on the size of the station ( just gas, or a full conviencience
store) it could be a small ammount to just run a couple of pumps. Also they
may want to go to just cash as many pumps will take a credit card and that
service may be out during emergencies.

If I was going to do it, I would put 2 or 3 pumps on a cash only system and
just power up the pumps, a few lights and only the bare minimum to run the
station.

As someone else mentioned there may be problems with raising the prices
during emergencies, but I would think they should make it a law they can go
up 10 or 20 percent to pay for the extra cost to run the generators.

And, this is the result of the government interfering in commerce. If the gas stations could charge a free market price for fuel during hurricanes, they would have incentive to put in generators. But no, and so everyone runs out of gas, and pushes the car to the side of the road. Thank you, government, for making a disaster even worse than it needed to be.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"Pete C." wrote in message ...

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The problem that I see is that many of the stations are operated by
small dealers and to spend $5000 to $10,000 for generation does not
have a payback. It could if they were allowed to jack the price a
buck when operating from generators.

They could increase the price some while on generator. Most states price
gouging laws limit the increase rather than preventing any increase.

With all the electronic equipment, I'm guessing that most stations would be leery of generator power. Unless perhaps it was a hard wired, built in Generac. I think it would be wise to have a mechanical old style pump or two on the islands, for hurricanes. Just spin the dials, and charge a nice round five bucks a galon, cash only, until the fuel runs out.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"TomR" wrote in message ...


Here is a link to the interlock plate so you can see how simple it is.
Almost anyone can install them.

http://www.interlockkit.com/


Thanks. I don't know what the typical gas station electric service setup
would be -- meaning how many amps, whether single phase or 3-phase, etc.

On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:13:18 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
And, this is the result of the government interfering in commerce. If the gas stations could charge a free market price for fuel during hurricanes, they would have incentive to put in generators. But no, and so everyone runs out of gas, and pushes the car to the side of the road. Thank you, government, for making a disaster even worse than it needed to be.

.

Christopher A. Young

Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org

.

.

"Pete C." wrote in message ...



Ed Pawlowski wrote:



The problem that I see is that many of the stations are operated by

small dealers and to spend $5000 to $10,000 for generation does not

have a payback. It could if they were allowed to jack the price a

buck when operating from generators.



They could increase the price some while on generator. Most states price

gouging laws limit the increase rather than preventing any increase.


You're absolutely right. Why would anyone load up a truck with
generators and drive from Iowa to NJ to sell them, if they can't
charge whatever they want for them? And it brings in more supply.
If you encouraged that, more people would do it, there would be
more coming in, more vendors to choose from, and the price would
come down. Would I load up a truck and drive to a state where I
thought I might be arrested? Hell no.

On 7/15/2013 5:02 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:55:15 -0400, "TomR" wrote:




Why? -- because I am often amazed when there is a hurricane or other natural
disaster that knocks the power out in a region, and thousands of people need
gas to evacuate, plus emergency services vehicles need gas to operate during
the disaster -- but the gas stations with tens of thousands of gallons of
gas stored underground are all closed because they have no power to pump the
gas that they have.


I read that some states either have or are trying to pass laws that
some stations must have generators. They were targeting the ones on
main evacuation routes.

The problem that I see is that many of the stations are operated by
small dealers and to spend $5000 to $10,000 for generation does not
have a payback. It could if they were allowed to jack the price a
buck when operating from generators.


If I were a small gas station owner, I'd ask the local gov't to factor
supplying the station with a generator into its disaster planning.
Either permanently install it on site or have a plan in place to
position one asap after a disaster/power outage.
It's for the public good, so frankly, the public should shoulder at
least some of the cost.

Moe DeLoughan wrote:
On 7/15/2013 5:02 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:55:15 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

. . . , -- because I am often amazed when there is a hurricane or
other natural disaster that knocks the power out in a region, and
thousands of people need gas to evacuate, plus emergency services
vehicles need gas to operate during the disaster -- but the gas
stations with tens of thousands of gallons of gas stored
underground are all closed because they have no power to pump the
gas that they have.

I read that some states either have or are trying to pass laws that
some stations must have generators. They were targeting the ones on
main evacuation routes.

The problem that I see is that many of the stations are operated by
small dealers and to spend $5000 to $10,000 for generation does not
have a payback. It could if they were allowed to jack the price a
buck when operating from generators.

If I were a small gas station owner, I'd ask the local gov't to factor
supplying the station with a generator into its disaster planning.
Either permanently install it on site or have a plan in place to
position one asap after a disaster/power outage.
It's for the public good, so frankly, the public should shoulder at
least some of the cost.

That's actually along the lines of what I was thinking.

My idea would involve some government interference in terms of certain
mandates, combined with some governmental financial support to make it
happen.

I don't know what the typical cost would be to put in place the needed
generator "cross over" wiring for a small gas station or a larger multi-pump
gas station with a convenience store (such as WaWa). But, let's say, for
example that the cost is around $2,500 or less.

Then, make it a state law (my state is New Jersey) that all gas stations are
required to have this type of stand-by generator "cross over" in place by a
certain date. And, use disaster planning funds, or FEMA funds, or Homeland
Security funds to guarantee low interest loans to each gas station to borrow
the money to do the installation with maybe a 5 or 10 year payback. Yes, it
would be a new cost for the gas station businesses, but it would cost them
maybe $500/year for 5 years at the most. What they would get out of it is
an asset. And, what the state would get out of it is an infrastructure
improvement that would help better prepare the state for disasters.

TomR wrote:
. . . , My idea would involve some government interference in terms of
certain
mandates, combined with some governmental financial support to make it
happen.

I don't know what the typical cost would be to put in place the needed
generator "cross over" wiring for a small gas station or a larger
multi-pump gas station with a convenience store (such as WaWa). But,
let's say, for example that the cost is around $2,500 or less.

P.S. I really would be interested in knowing roughly what such a generator
"cross over" wiring installation might cost, and maybe how much power or
what type of generator would later be required to power up both a smaller
"regular" gas station and a larger multi-pump and convenience store gas
station.

TomR wrote:
TomR wrote:
. . . , My idea would involve some government interference in terms
of certain
mandates, combined with some governmental financial support to make
it happen.

I don't know what the typical cost would be to put in place the
needed generator "cross over" wiring for a small gas station or a
larger multi-pump gas station with a convenience store (such as
WaWa). But, let's say, for example that the cost is around $2,500
or less.

P.S. I really would be interested in knowing roughly what such a
generator "cross over" wiring installation might cost, and maybe how
much power or what type of generator would later be required to power
up both a smaller "regular" gas station and a larger multi-pump and
convenience store gas station.

Oops, it looks like I may have found the answer to my own question by doing
a Google search:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=backup+generator+for+gas+station .



Obviously, I am not the first person to think of this idea.



And, it looks like the cost for just the electrical hook-up could be big
bucks:

http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-ne...-state-budget/ .



Like maybe up to $10,000 for the wiring hook-up.

"TomR" wrote in message
...
And, it looks like the cost for just the electrical hook-up could be big
bucks:

http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-ne...-state-budget/ .



Like maybe up to $10,000 for the wiring hook-up.


It could be where you are at and then the government money..

I don't see it taking anything like a day for an electrician to install a
transfer switch. At $ 100 an hour that would be less than $ 1000. The
switching gear should not run over $ 1000 for some of the best.

If the station is planning on running everything I can see where it may cost
$ 40,000. If it is just for emergency operation, the cost should be way
less. Just depending on the cost of the generator. A 25 kw unit will power
lots of stuff and is less than $ 10,000.

TomR wrote:

Moe DeLoughan wrote:
On 7/15/2013 5:02 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:55:15 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

. . . , -- because I am often amazed when there is a hurricane or
other natural disaster that knocks the power out in a region, and
thousands of people need gas to evacuate, plus emergency services
vehicles need gas to operate during the disaster -- but the gas
stations with tens of thousands of gallons of gas stored
underground are all closed because they have no power to pump the
gas that they have.

I read that some states either have or are trying to pass laws that
some stations must have generators. They were targeting the ones on
main evacuation routes.

The problem that I see is that many of the stations are operated by
small dealers and to spend $5000 to $10,000 for generation does not
have a payback. It could if they were allowed to jack the price a
buck when operating from generators.

If I were a small gas station owner, I'd ask the local gov't to factor
supplying the station with a generator into its disaster planning.
Either permanently install it on site or have a plan in place to
position one asap after a disaster/power outage.
It's for the public good, so frankly, the public should shoulder at
least some of the cost.

That's actually along the lines of what I was thinking.

My idea would involve some government interference in terms of certain
mandates, combined with some governmental financial support to make it
happen.

I don't know what the typical cost would be to put in place the needed
generator "cross over" wiring for a small gas station or a larger multi-pump
gas station with a convenience store (such as WaWa). But, let's say, for
example that the cost is around $2,500 or less.

A gas station is a facility that handles flammable fuels, most
everything around them has to be done in an explosion proof manner.
There will also be a physical separation issue that for some stations in
tight areas may not even be possible. Additionally, commercial standby
generators require additional permitting that residential ones don't.

My expectation is that installation of a backup generator for a typical
gas station will total $25,000-$35,000 by the time everything is
accounted for, including the fact that commercial grade backup
generators cost a lot more than the cheap residential ones.

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 12:15:00 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote in Re Generator
"cross over" switch installation costs:

My expectation is that installation of a backup generator for a typical
gas station will total $25,000-$35,000 by the time everything is
accounted for, including the fact that commercial grade backup
generators cost a lot more than the cheap residential ones.

So if that gas station is netting $0.05/gal of gas sold, how many
gallons must be sold just to pay for that?

Would you spend that kind of $$ for that kind of profit margin?
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:37:20 AM UTC-4, wrote:
You're absolutely right. Why would anyone load up a truck with
generators and drive from Iowa to NJ to sell them, if they can't
charge whatever they want for them? And it brings in more supply.
If you encouraged that, more people would do it, there would be
more coming in, more vendors to choose from, and the price would
come down. Would I load up a truck and drive to a state where I
thought I might be arrested? Hell no.

Because, if you were the victim of a disaster and "needed" a generator, and the only place to get one was off the back of a truck at 2-5 times the retail price, you'd be MAD AS HELL.

As soon as the storm subsided, you'd be waging a campaign to convince your politicians to make an anti-gouging law ASAP.

I don't care what side you think you belong to. It's not your fault that you weren't prepared. It's the generator seller's fault for taking advantage of your situation and price gouging. "There ought to be a law!" you'll cry.

What a liberal! So, it's not your fault you live in
hurricane country, and don't have a generator
and stored gasoline? Where does it all end? Is
the government going to pay my bills, wipe my
nose, and raise everyone's children?

Man, what a frieking total socialist liberal. Wish
you'd pack up and go home to your socialist
utopia. I prefer to live in a limited government
Constitutional Republic.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...

Because, if you were the victim of a disaster and
"needed" a generator, and the only place to get
one was off the back of a truck at 2-5 times the
retail price, you'd be MAD AS HELL.

As soon as the storm subsided, you'd be waging
a campaign to convince your politicians to make
an anti-gouging law ASAP.

I don't care what side you think you belong to.
It's not your fault that you weren't prepared. It's
the generator seller's fault for taking advantage
of your situation and price gouging. "There ought
to be a law!" you'll cry.

On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 4:20:30 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:37:20 AM UTC-4, wrote:

You're absolutely right. Why would anyone load up a truck with

generators and drive from Iowa to NJ to sell them, if they can't

charge whatever they want for them? And it brings in more supply.

If you encouraged that, more people would do it, there would be

more coming in, more vendors to choose from, and the price would

come down. Would I load up a truck and drive to a state where I

thought I might be arrested? Hell no.



Because, if you were the victim of a disaster and "needed" a generator, and the only place to get one was off the back of a truck at 2-5 times the retail price, you'd be MAD AS HELL.



No I wouldn't.



As soon as the storm subsided, you'd be waging a campaign to convince your politicians to make an anti-gouging law ASAP.



No I wouldn't. It's the misguided libs who don't understand
economics and want more and more laws.




I don't care what side you think you belong to. It's not your fault that you weren't prepared. It's the generator seller's fault for taking advantage of your situation and price gouging. "There ought to be a law!" you'll cry.

See above.

On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 12:02:01 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
Oops, it looks like I may have found the answer to my own question by doing
a Google search:

Like maybe up to $10,000 for the wiring hook-up.

Yeah, all these other guys are talking about RESIDENTIAL backup generators.

Commercial is a whole different game. That alone raises the price by a factor of 5.

As you should be able to imagine, there are a lot of extra safety concerns when it comes to gas stations. I'm sure there are strict laws on how stations are wired, safety equipment that needs to be in place and operational whenever the station is operating.

It's not as simple as powering a couple of pumps to suck gas out of the tanks. You've pretty much got to have the entire station powered and operational if you want to sell gas.

The government which libs love so much, has
many pages of emergency prep information.
Libs start off by ignoring the guidance of their
very own government. And then insist they
will set the terms of their own rescue. What a
bunch of maroons.

Bring me hasenfeffer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bGvv2VUP_8
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...
come down. Would I load up a truck and drive to a state where I

thought I might be arrested? Hell no.



Because, if you were the victim of a disaster and "needed" a generator, and the only place to get one was off the back of a truck at 2-5 times the retail price, you'd be MAD AS HELL.



No I wouldn't.



As soon as the storm subsided, you'd be waging a campaign to convince your politicians to make an anti-gouging law ASAP.



No I wouldn't. It's the misguided libs who don't understand
economics and want more and more laws.




I don't care what side you think you belong to. It's not your fault that you weren't prepared. It's the generator seller's fault for taking advantage of your situation and price gouging. "There ought to be a law!" you'll cry.

See above.

wrote:
On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 12:02:01 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
Oops, it looks like I may have found the answer to my own question
by doing a Google search:

Like maybe up to $10,000 for the wiring hook-up.

It's not as simple as powering a couple of pumps to suck gas out of
the tanks. You've pretty much got to have the entire station powered
and operational if you want to sell gas.

I agree with that. If the station is going to be operational, even during
an emergency, I would expect that all aspects of the business would be up
and running -- including heat, light, refrigeration, plumbing, etc.

I wonder if any libs are prepared, before
the storm? Naah, never mind. Silly question.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...
On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 4:20:30 PM UTC-4, wrote:


Because, if you were the victim of a disaster and "needed" a generator, and the only place to get one was off the back of a truck at 2-5 times the retail price, you'd be MAD AS HELL.



No I wouldn't.



As soon as the storm subsided, you'd be waging a campaign to convince your politicians to make an anti-gouging law ASAP.



No I wouldn't. It's the misguided libs who don't understand
economics and want more and more laws.




I don't care what side you think you belong to. It's not your fault that you weren't prepared. It's the generator seller's fault for taking advantage of your situation and price gouging. "There ought to be a law!" you'll cry.

See above.

And suppose you are evacuating from a hurricane.
You pull into the gas station. The owner says "I
have this old style pump, running off a generator.
You can have gas at five bucks a galon, cash, till
I run out." What do you reply?
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"TomR" wrote in message ...

I agree with that. If the station is going to be operational, even during
an emergency, I would expect that all aspects of the business would be up
and running -- including heat, light, refrigeration, plumbing, etc.

On 7/16/2013 1:20 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 7:37:20 AM UTC-4, wrote:
You're absolutely right. Why would anyone load up a truck with
generators and drive from Iowa to NJ to sell them, if they can't
charge whatever they want for them? And it brings in more supply.
If you encouraged that, more people would do it, there would be
more coming in, more vendors to choose from, and the price would
come down. Would I load up a truck and drive to a state where I
thought I might be arrested? Hell no.

Because, if you were the victim of a disaster and "needed" a generator, and the only place to get one was off the back of a truck at 2-5 times the retail price, you'd be MAD AS HELL.

As soon as the storm subsided, you'd be waging a campaign to convince your politicians to make an anti-gouging law ASAP.

I don't care what side you think you belong to.

It's not your fault that you weren't prepared.

huh? there really isn't any free will and personal accountability?

It's the generator seller's fault for taking advantage of your
situation and price gouging. "There ought to be a law!" you'll cry.


that may be true, but one is prepared, then one probably won't claim that.

"TomR" wrote in message
...
It's not as simple as powering a couple of pumps to suck gas out of
the tanks. You've pretty much got to have the entire station powered
and operational if you want to sell gas.

I agree with that. If the station is going to be operational, even during
an emergency, I would expect that all aspects of the business would be up
and running -- including heat, light, refrigeration, plumbing, etc.

I guess that I am thinking real emergency. Things may be differant now, but
when I worked at a hospital about 40 years ago we had two generators. One
was automatic and one had to be put on line manually. We only powered the
critical systems, the heart unit , intensive care areas some lights and that
was it. There were emergency 120 volt outlets on each floor where something
could be plugged in if neededd.

In a real emergency the gas may be the most critical thing. Keeping the
beer cool or the lottery machines going may not be that inportant.

You reach a point as to ballance the money for emergencies against the
payback. It is going to be foolish to spend $ 50,000 or more if there is no
payback or if it will take 20 years to payback. Then if you price the fuel
to fully power the whole station, you may never get payback.

In Dennis the Menace's view, we're all helpless
victims. And have no ability to prepare for
emergencies ahead of time. We all are
dependant on the government.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"chaniarts" wrote in message ...
On 7/16/2013 1:20 PM, wrote:
I don't care what side you think you belong to.
It's not your fault that you weren't prepared.

huh? there really isn't any free will and personal accountability?

It's the generator seller's fault for taking advantage of your
situation and price gouging. "There ought to be a law!" you'll cry.


that may be true, but one is prepared, then one probably won't claim that.

With anti price gouging laws, there is no payback,
ever. So, there are no emergency generators. And
all the people stuck in cars out of gas have to be
hauled off to the concentration camps by the
government. Oh, I mean, Super Dome. Same thing.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message m...

I guess that I am thinking real emergency. Things may be differant now, but
when I worked at a hospital about 40 years ago we had two generators. One
was automatic and one had to be put on line manually. We only powered the
critical systems, the heart unit , intensive care areas some lights and that
was it. There were emergency 120 volt outlets on each floor where something
could be plugged in if neededd.

In a real emergency the gas may be the most critical thing. Keeping the
beer cool or the lottery machines going may not be that inportant.

You reach a point as to ballance the money for emergencies against the
payback. It is going to be foolish to spend $ 50,000 or more if there is no
payback or if it will take 20 years to payback. Then if you price the fuel
to fully power the whole station, you may never get payback.

On 7/16/2013 5:17 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
And suppose you are evacuating from a hurricane.
You pull into the gas station. The owner says "I
have this old style pump, running off a generator.
You can have gas at five bucks a galon, cash, till
I run out." What do you reply?
.

Fillerup!

I'd say about the same thing.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"noname" wrote in message ...
On 7/16/2013 5:17 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
And suppose you are evacuating from a hurricane.
You pull into the gas station. The owner says "I
have this old style pump, running off a generator.
You can have gas at five bucks a galon, cash, till
I run out." What do you reply?
.

Fillerup!

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 09:47:09 -0500, Moe DeLoughan
wrote:




If I were a small gas station owner, I'd ask the local gov't to factor
supplying the station with a generator into its disaster planning.
Either permanently install it on site or have a plan in place to
position one asap after a disaster/power outage.
It's for the public good, so frankly, the public should shoulder at
least some of the cost.

Right. give me a call as soon as you get the approval. On paper you
are right, in reality, not going to happen.

After last years back to back storms in the fall, in NY,NJ there is now a
requirement for stations in defined areas to have emergency backup power.
Most of Long Island was without power for about two weeks, stations in parts of
NJ, NYC, Westchester county similar situation.

Bad part too was the main fuel transfer/storage dock in the port was also
knocked out. Delivers had to come down from Albany area over 100 miles north.

Folks were driving for hours and waiting for hours, following tankers to get gas.

On 07/15/2013 06:02 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 16:55:15 -0400, "TomR" wrote:




Why? -- because I am often amazed when there is a hurricane or other natural
disaster that knocks the power out in a region, and thousands of people need
gas to evacuate, plus emergency services vehicles need gas to operate during
the disaster -- but the gas stations with tens of thousands of gallons of
gas stored underground are all closed because they have no power to pump the
gas that they have.


I read that some states either have or are trying to pass laws that
some stations must have generators. They were targeting the ones on
main evacuation routes.

The problem that I see is that many of the stations are operated by
small dealers and to spend $5000 to $10,000 for generation does not
have a payback. It could if they were allowed to jack the price a
buck when operating from generators.

On Wednesday, July 17, 2013 2:51:53 PM UTC-4, HHSupply wrote:
After last years back to back storms in the fall, in NY,NJ there is now a

requirement for stations in defined areas to have emergency backup power.

In NY, not in NJ. NJ legislature is considering such a law,
but nothing has passed. And in NY, apparently the taxpayers are
once again footing the bill.

On 7/16/2013 6:37 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 16, 2013 6:13:18 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
And, this is the result of the government interfering in commerce. If the gas stations could charge a free market price for fuel during hurricanes, they would have incentive to put in generators. But no, and so everyone runs out of gas, and pushes the car to the side of the road. Thank you, government, for making a disaster even worse than it needed to be.

.

Christopher A. Young

Learn more about Jesus

www.lds.org

.

.

"Pete C." wrote in message ...



Ed Pawlowski wrote:



The problem that I see is that many of the stations are operated by

small dealers and to spend $5000 to $10,000 for generation does not

have a payback. It could if they were allowed to jack the price a

buck when operating from generators.



They could increase the price some while on generator. Most states price

gouging laws limit the increase rather than preventing any increase.


You're absolutely right. Why would anyone load up a truck with
generators and drive from Iowa to NJ to sell them, if they can't
charge whatever they want for them? And it brings in more supply.
If you encouraged that, more people would do it, there would be
more coming in, more vendors to choose from, and the price would
come down. Would I load up a truck and drive to a state where I
thought I might be arrested? Hell no.


If I had a great deal of money to play around with and because I'm an
anarchist at heart who will give the finger to government whenever I
get the chance, I would open a warehouse store and stock it with the
kind of nonperishable supplies needed during natural disasters. The
difference would be, my prices would be ridiculously high all the time
and advertized that way. Of course no one would buy anything except
when................. ^_^

TDD

On 7/17/2013 2:51 PM, HHSupply wrote:
After last years back to back storms in the fall, in NY,NJ there is now a
requirement for stations in defined areas to have emergency backup power.
Most of Long Island was without power for about two weeks, stations in parts of
NJ, NYC, Westchester county similar situation.

Bad part too was the main fuel transfer/storage dock in the port was also
knocked out. Delivers had to come down from Albany area over 100 miles north.

Folks were driving for hours and waiting for hours, following tankers to get gas.


Some day maybe we'll wake up and remove the trees along power lines.

Until then we'll suffer the long lines at gas stations.