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#1
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
Hi! We are about to get our roof replaced but are looking into structural changes to make the roof safer in the event of severe weather. We live in an area that has occasional hurricanes and even small tornadoes.
Our property has hundreds of tall oak trees (approximately 1-2 feet in diameter x 70 feet? tall) that are gorgeous but certainly dangerous should they fall on the house. It is not a realistic option to remove all the trees and bracing all of the trees would result in a spiderweb of wires all over the place that is not a safe or realistic option either. Is there anything we can do to improve our own safety with respect to these trees? I have seen too many news stories during hurricanes where people were killed when a tree fell on their roof. We have a two-story gable roof with plywood sheathing and architectural shingles. Would it help to reinforce the trusses with horizontal or cross metal braces? Could we put metal sheathing beneath the plywood? Our goal is not to make the roof impervious to trees but rather to give us at least a small amount of time to escape the house safely should a heavy tree fall on the roof. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! |
#2
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On Mon, 6 May 2013 14:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Nona
wrote in Re Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?: We have a two-story gable roof with plywood sheathing and architectural shingles. Would it help to reinforce the trusses with horizontal or cross metal braces? Could we put metal sheathing beneath the plywood? Our goal is not to make the roof impervious to trees but rather to give us at least a small amount of time to escape the house safely should a heavy tree fall on the roof. I'm assuming that you have a wood frame house under that roof; in which case there is not much you can do if one of those trees fall. The weight of the tree is likely to collapse the frame exterior walls as well as destroy the roof. |
#3
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On May 6, 5:26*pm, Nona wrote:
Hi! *We are about to get our roof replaced but are looking into structural changes to make the roof safer in the event of severe weather. *We live in an area that has occasional hurricanes and even small tornadoes. Our property has hundreds of tall oak trees (approximately 1-2 feet in diameter x 70 feet? tall) that are gorgeous but certainly dangerous should they fall on the house. *It is not a realistic option to remove all the trees You don't have to remove all the trees. Just enough so that none can reach the house. Or if you're most worried about a structural collapse but willing to tolerate some lesser damage, then you could leave trees where the top 1/4 or so could reach the house. That load may cause damage, but it's not likely to cause a major collapse that kills people. and bracing all of the trees would result in a spiderweb of wires all over the place that is not a safe or realistic option either. Is there anything we can do to improve our own safety with respect to these trees? *I have seen too many news stories during hurricanes where people were killed when a tree fell on their roof. We have a two-story gable roof with plywood sheathing and architectural shingles. *Would it help to reinforce the trusses with horizontal or cross metal braces? No, because it's not just the roof, it's the fact that everything else, ie what supports the roof, the two floors, etc is not designed to carry the additional weight of a 70ft tree. *Could we put metal sheathing beneath the plywood? *Our goal is not to make the roof impervious to trees but rather to give us at least a small amount of time to escape the house safely should a heavy tree fall on the roof. Metal sheathing is just going to crumple and the roof deck is still going to collapse. And replacing the whole roof deck to add that isn;t gonna be cheap. Just to replace a sheet of plywood is $50. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Cut back the tree line. Or get out of there before a hurricane and live with the risk of a tree coming down anyhow in an unforecasted more regular storm, eg a severe thunderstorm, high winds, etc. |
#4
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On 5/6/2013 5:26 PM, Nona wrote:
Hi! We are about to get our roof replaced but are looking into structural changes to make the roof safer in the event of severe weather. We live in an area that has occasional hurricanes and even small tornadoes. Our property has hundreds of tall oak trees (approximately 1-2 feet in diameter x 70 feet? tall) that are gorgeous but certainly dangerous should they fall on the house. It is not a realistic option to remove all the trees and bracing all of the trees would result in a spiderweb of wires all over the place that is not a safe or realistic option either. Is there anything we can do to improve our own safety with respect to these trees? I have seen too many news stories during hurricanes where people were killed when a tree fell on their roof. We have a two-story gable roof with plywood sheathing and architectural shingles. Would it help to reinforce the trusses with horizontal or cross metal braces? Could we put metal sheathing beneath the plywood? Our goal is not to make the roof impervious to trees but rather to give us at least a small amount of time to escape the house safely should a heavy tree fall on the roof. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Cut the trees down. At some point you'll prolly have to anyway. Neighbor's insurance company refused to renew his policy until he had two trees removed. |
#5
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On 5/6/2013 5:26 PM, Nona wrote:
Hi! We are about to get our roof replaced but are looking into structural changes to make the roof safer in the event of severe weather. We live in an area that has occasional hurricanes and even small tornadoes. Our property has hundreds of tall oak trees (approximately 1-2 feet in diameter x 70 feet? tall) that are gorgeous but certainly dangerous should they fall on the house. It is not a realistic option to remove all the trees and bracing all of the trees would result in a spiderweb of wires all over the place that is not a safe or realistic option either. Is there anything we can do to improve our own safety with respect to these trees? I have seen too many news stories during hurricanes where people were killed when a tree fell on their roof. We have a two-story gable roof with plywood sheathing and architectural shingles. Would it help to reinforce the trusses with horizontal or cross metal braces? Could we put metal sheathing beneath the plywood? Our goal is not to make the roof impervious to trees but rather to give us at least a small amount of time to escape the house safely should a heavy tree fall on the roof. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Only safe thing you can do is cut down any tree that would endanger the house if it fell. I'm sure its not all of the trees. |
#6
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
Frank wrote:
On 5/6/2013 5:26 PM, Nona wrote: Hi! We are about to get our roof replaced but are looking into structural changes to make the roof safer in the event of severe weather. We live in an area that has occasional hurricanes and even small tornadoes. Our property has hundreds of tall oak trees (approximately 1-2 feet in diameter x 70 feet? tall) that are gorgeous but certainly dangerous should they fall on the house. It is not a realistic option to remove all the trees and bracing all of the trees would result in a spiderweb of wires all over the place that is not a safe or realistic option either. Is there anything we can do to improve our own safety with respect to these trees? I have seen too many news stories during hurricanes where people were killed when a tree fell on their roof. We have a two-story gable roof with plywood sheathing and architectural shingles. Would it help to reinforce the trusses with horizontal or cross metal braces? Could we put metal sheathing beneath the plywood? Our goal is not to make the roof impervious to trees but rather to give us at least a small amount of time to escape the house safely should a heavy tree fall on the roof. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Only safe thing you can do is cut down any tree that would endanger the house if it fell. I'm sure its not all of the trees. I'm worried about mine, which are so close to the house.the biggest trunk has my water line tied up. The power company is going to trim soon. I'm going to ask how much can they do. Greg |
#7
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
Remove the closest trees that can endanger the home.
For safetys sake build a safe room somewhere in your home, or underground but nearby. Think steel and concrete reinforced storm shelter. near center of home is probably the most safe, make it big enough for emergency supplies like food and water this room could be useful for all sorts of disasters..... my neighbor had lots of beautful trees, first he removed the closest ones that if they fell could hit his home. he wasnt satisfied and removed all the trees he is elderly, and wanted to protect his home. He fell over a year ago in his driveway and broke his hip he has been in a nursing home ever since. His family had the home cleaned out, and its being sold...... they would of got more for the home before all those beautiful trees were cut down. |
#8
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On Mon, 06 May 2013 18:20:01 -0400, Joe wrote:
On 5/6/2013 5:26 PM, Nona wrote: Hi! We are about to get our roof replaced but are looking into structural changes to make the roof safer in the event of severe weather. We live in an area that has occasional hurricanes and even small tornadoes. Our property has hundreds of tall oak trees (approximately 1-2 feet in diameter x 70 feet? tall) that are gorgeous but certainly dangerous should they fall on the house. It is not a realistic option to remove all the trees and bracing all of the trees would result in a spiderweb of wires all over the place that is not a safe or realistic option either. Is there anything we can do to improve our own safety with respect to these trees? I have seen too many news stories during hurricanes where people were killed when a tree fell on their roof. We have a two-story gable roof with plywood sheathing and architectural shingles. Would it help to reinforce the trusses with horizontal or cross metal braces? Could we put metal sheathing beneath the plywood? Our goal is not to make the roof impervious to trees but rather to give us at least a small amount of time to escape the house safely should a heavy tree fall on the roof. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Cut the trees down. At some point you'll prolly have to anyway. Also, schedule the funerals for your parents and wife. At some point you'll prolly have to anyway., Neighbor's insurance company refused to renew his policy until he had two trees removed. |
#9
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
In article ,
Nona wrote: Hi! We are about to get our roof replaced but are looking into structural changes to make the roof safer in the event of severe weather. We live in an area that has occasional hurricanes and even small tornadoes. Our property has hundreds of tall oak trees (approximately 1-2 feet in diameter x 70 feet? tall) that are gorgeous but certainly dangerous should they fall on the house. It is not a realistic option to remove all the trees and bracing all of the trees would result in a spiderweb of wires all over the place that is not a safe or realistic option either. Is there anything we can do to improve our own safety with respect to these trees? I have seen too many news stories during hurricanes where people were killed when a tree fell on their roof. We have a two-story gable roof with plywood sheathing and architectural shingles. Would it help to reinforce the trusses with horizontal or cross metal braces? Could we put metal sheathing beneath the plywood? Our goal is not to make the roof impervious to trees but rather to give us at least a small amount of time to escape the house safely should a heavy tree fall on the roof. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Raise your house so it's above the trees. On a budget, find a used underwater drilling platform. Try craigslist. m |
#10
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
"bob haller" wrote in message
... Remove the closest trees that can endanger the home. Actually, the very closest trees are probably not as dangerous as ones that are far enough away to allow the tree to fall over and gain a lot of momentum. The close trees are likely to slide against the house and do less damage than the ones that fall over from far enough away to swing like a hammer. All the serious hits I recall seeing were from trees set some distance from the foundation We had a tornado 5 blocks away a while back and it scattered an entire park full of tall 2' foot wide oaks like pickup sticks. If you are in the direct path of a tornado, no amount of bracing is going to help a typical residential structure. I rode around after the storm and took pictures and one was of a poor guy standing in front of his split-level home that was split in half by a massive oak tree that had been almost 50' away from the house. The tree was tall enough so that the top of the trunk cut the house like buzzsaw. He had this "stunned mullet" look on his face that officers used to get after being chewed out by Gen. Schwartzkopf http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../waller/1.html For safetys sake build a safe room somewhere in your home, or underground but nearby. Yes! These events *usually* have some forewarning, and if you're really concerned you can get a weather radio that will sound an alert to give you time to reach a shelter. http://www.tornadoproject.com/safety/safety.htm http://www.tornadoproject.com/safety/noaawxra.htm Think steel and concrete reinforced storm shelter. near center of home is probably the most safe, make it big enough for emergency supplies like food and water this room could be useful for all sorts of disasters..... I've always believed in having at least a "retreat" room if not a safe room. I've yet to be able to convince my wife that we should dig an escape tunnel from the basement to the park behind us. Lots of animals have dens with emergency escape tunnels. If' it's good enough for a fox, it's OK with me. (-: my neighbor had lots of beautful trees, first he removed the closest ones that if they fell could hit his home. he wasnt satisfied and removed all the trees Elderly people get funny like that. I think the realization of one's mortality makes them want to stack all the odds in their favor. For instance, I've read that a lot more people take cholesterol meds than are really helped by them because, as Rutger Hauer's character said in _Blade Runner_ ,"I want more life, fu&er." Everybody wants to beat the Reaper. Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die. he is elderly, and wanted to protect his home. The elderly often develop very severe agoraphobia (fear of going outside) because they view the world as ever more threatening. It's very sad. He fell over a year ago in his driveway and broke his hip he has been in a nursing home ever since. I have a good friend who's now in rehab after falling, breaking his wrist and lying four days on the floor waiting for someone to find him. We got him cell phones, phone dialer pendants, all that stuff before the fall - but he just refused to use them. His reasoning was that he didn't want to dial 911 and have the fireman break down his door with an axe. I think it's a little bit of dementia creeping in. His family had the home cleaned out, and its being sold...... they would of got more for the home before all those beautiful trees were cut down. Let's just hope the tree slaughter bought him at least some piece of mind. We've lost four beautiful trees in the last few years and it really does change the entire character of the home - and the value, too. -- Bobby G. |
#11
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On 5/7/2013 1:05 AM, micky wrote:
On Mon, 06 May 2013 18:20:01 -0400, Joe wrote: On 5/6/2013 5:26 PM, Nona wrote: Hi! We are about to get our roof replaced but are looking into structural changes to make the roof safer in the event of severe weather. We live in an area that has occasional hurricanes and even small tornadoes. Our property has hundreds of tall oak trees (approximately 1-2 feet in diameter x 70 feet? tall) that are gorgeous but certainly dangerous should they fall on the house. It is not a realistic option to remove all the trees and bracing all of the trees would result in a spiderweb of wires all over the place that is not a safe or realistic option either. Is there anything we can do to improve our own safety with respect to these trees? I have seen too many news stories during hurricanes where people were killed when a tree fell on their roof. We have a two-story gable roof with plywood sheathing and architectural shingles. Would it help to reinforce the trusses with horizontal or cross metal braces? Could we put metal sheathing beneath the plywood? Our goal is not to make the roof impervious to trees but rather to give us at least a small amount of time to escape the house safely should a heavy tree fall on the roof. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Cut the trees down. At some point you'll prolly have to anyway. Also, schedule the funerals for your parents and wife. At some point you'll prolly have to anyway., I'm not sure what you're alluding to but I think it's illegal. ;-) |
#12
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On Tue, 7 May 2013 04:37:04 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote: We had a tornado 5 blocks away a while back and it scattered an entire park full of tall 2' foot wide oaks like pickup sticks. If you are in the direct path of a tornado, no amount of bracing is going to help a typical residential structure. Not bracing, but I've heard that attaching the roof well to the top floor of the house can greatly decrease the chance of the roof coming off in a tornado. That most roofs stay on by gravity and the nails just help. But where they've learned to use whatever they recommend now, even in tornadoes the roof will likely stay on. I rode around after the storm and took pictures and one was of a poor guy standing in front of his split-level home that was split in half Wasn't it split in quarters, if it was already split? by a massive oak tree that had been almost 50' away from the house. The tree was tall enough so that the top of the trunk cut the house like buzzsaw. He had this "stunned mullet" look on his face that officers used to get after being chewed out by Gen. Schwartzkopf |
#13
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On May 7, 3:03*pm, micky wrote:
On Tue, 7 May 2013 04:37:04 -0400, "Robert Green" wrote: We had a tornado 5 blocks away a while back and it scattered an entire park full of tall 2' foot wide oaks like pickup sticks. *If you are in the direct path of a tornado, no amount of bracing is going to help a typical residential structure. Not bracing, but I've heard that attaching the roof well to the top floor of the house can greatly decrease the chance of the roof coming off in a tornado. *That most roofs stay on by gravity and the nails just help. *But where they've learned to use whatever they recommend now, even in tornadoes the roof will likely stay on. I guess that depends on what you mean by "in tornadoes". If it's a tornado passing a couple block or two away, then I agree. If it's a direct hit or very close, then it's likely going to tear up the whole house, roof and all. Using better roof attachment methods has definitely been proven to make roofs far more wind resistant. That's been demonstrated in FL, where newer roof work has greatly increased connection requirements required by code and it's worked to reduce hurricane damage. |
#14
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On 5/6/2013 9:26 PM, gregz wrote:
Frank wrote: On 5/6/2013 5:26 PM, Nona wrote: Hi! We are about to get our roof replaced but are looking into structural changes to make the roof safer in the event of severe weather. We live in an area that has occasional hurricanes and even small tornadoes. Our property has hundreds of tall oak trees (approximately 1-2 feet in diameter x 70 feet? tall) that are gorgeous but certainly dangerous should they fall on the house. It is not a realistic option to remove all the trees and bracing all of the trees would result in a spiderweb of wires all over the place that is not a safe or realistic option either. Is there anything we can do to improve our own safety with respect to these trees? I have seen too many news stories during hurricanes where people were killed when a tree fell on their roof. We have a two-story gable roof with plywood sheathing and architectural shingles. Would it help to reinforce the trusses with horizontal or cross metal braces? Could we put metal sheathing beneath the plywood? Our goal is not to make the roof impervious to trees but rather to give us at least a small amount of time to escape the house safely should a heavy tree fall on the roof. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Only safe thing you can do is cut down any tree that would endanger the house if it fell. I'm sure its not all of the trees. I'm worried about mine, which are so close to the house.the biggest trunk has my water line tied up. The power company is going to trim soon. I'm going to ask how much can they do. Greg I cut down a perfectly good maple figuring if it ever fell it would cause severe damage to the house. A friend in Myrtle Beach about 10 years ago had all the big pines removed from around his house. In a hurricane, he figured one could break off and come through the roof like a missile. Cost him $16,000. If you ever hire a tree cutter, don't pay until they are done. Awful lot of fly-by-nights in that business around here. |
#15
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On May 7, 3:15*pm, Frank
If you ever hire a tree cutter, don't pay until they are done. *Awful lot of fly-by-nights in that business around here.- Hide quoted text - And make sure you understand what the scope of the work is, eg is stump grinding included? A lot of people assume when they hire someone to cut down and remove a tree, it includes grinding the stump. Usually, that's extra... |
#16
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On Monday, May 6, 2013 5:26:55 PM UTC-4, Nona wrote:
Hi! We are about to get our roof replaced but are looking into structural changes to make the roof safer in the event of severe weather. We live in an area that has occasional hurricanes and even small tornadoes. Our property has hundreds of tall oak trees (approximately 1-2 feet in diameter x 70 feet? tall) that are gorgeous but certainly dangerous should they fall on the house. It is not a realistic option to remove all the trees and bracing all of the trees would result in a spiderweb of wires all over the place that is not a safe or realistic option either. Is there anything we can do to improve our own safety with respect to these trees? I have seen too many news stories during hurricanes where people were killed when a tree fell on their roof. We have a two-story gable roof with plywood sheathing and architectural shingles. Would it help to reinforce the trusses with horizontal or cross metal braces? Could we put metal sheathing beneath the plywood? Our goal is not to make the roof impervious to trees but rather to give us at least a small amount of time to escape the house safely should a heavy tree fall on the roof. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Sorry but it's just completely impractical. Trees weigh thousands of pounds. Nothing you could build short of many inch thick concrete walls and steel trusses can stand having thousands of pounds dropped on it. |
#17
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
Nona wrote in
: Hi! We are about to get our roof replaced but are looking into structural changes to make the roof safer in the event of severe weather. We live in an area that has occasional hurricanes and even small tornadoes. Our property has hundreds of tall oak trees (approximately 1-2 feet in diameter x 70 feet? tall) that are gorgeous but certainly dangerous should they fall on the house. It is not a realistic option to remove all the trees and bracing all of the trees would result in a spiderweb of wires all over the place that is not a safe or realistic option either. Is there anything we can do to improve our own safety with respect to these trees? I have seen too many news stories during hurricanes where people were killed when a tree fell on their roof. We have a two-story gable roof with plywood sheathing and architectural shingles. Would it help to reinforce the trusses with horizontal or cross metal braces? Could we put metal sheathing beneath the plywood? Our goal is not to make the roof impervious to trees but rather to give us at least a small amount of time to escape the house safely should a heavy tree fall on the roof. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Hey Stormy. Surprised you didn't chime in with "Pray". |
#18
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
"micky" wrote in message
... On Tue, 7 May 2013 04:37:04 -0400, "Robert Green" wrote: We had a tornado 5 blocks away a while back and it scattered an entire park full of tall 2' foot wide oaks like pickup sticks. If you are in the direct path of a tornado, no amount of bracing is going to help a typical residential structure. Not bracing, but I've heard that attaching the roof well to the top floor of the house can greatly decrease the chance of the roof coming off in a tornado. That most roofs stay on by gravity and the nails just help. But where they've learned to use whatever they recommend now, even in tornadoes the roof will likely stay on. Agreed, but the OP was concerned about hits from trees, a different case than having a roof lifted off by high winds. Probably the only realistic way to fortify a structure so that it can withstand a falling oak tree is to build a steel roll cage around the house. If cutting down all the trees drops a home's value, imagine what a giant steel roll cage would do to its "curb appeal." (-: One other point. You've doubtless seen the swath a big tornado cuts. Those big twisters demolish wooden structures, roofs and all. I still contend that no amount of bracing or improved roof attachment is going to matter if you're a stick-built house in the path of an F3 or greater. It's sayonara time for that structure as it gets pulverized and dragged into the next county. I will agree that it's been proven time and again that good building codes save lives. Florida's rules about attaching roofs has greatly lessened damage caused by roofs flying off and then striking other homes and even people with flying debris. While it's still under investigation, that recent collapse in Bangladesh probably wouldn't have happened if that structure had been built better with adherence to building codes and better inspection during construction. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ollapse-world/ The exact cause of the collapse has not yet been determined, but Henri Gavin, a civil and environmental engineer at Duke University, speculated that the building's foundation was substandard. "It could be that one edge of the building was on much softer soil than the other, so that part of the building settled down a little bit more," Gavin explained. "That could easily lead to an instability that would precipitate a collapse." Another possibility is that weight on the top factory floors-where the crack was spotted-was unevenly distributed. (Also see pictures: "Sinkhole Swallows Buildings in China.") I rode around after the storm and took pictures and one was of a poor guy standing in front of his split-level home that was split in half Wasn't it split in quarters, if it was already split? (-: The adjusters came and wrote stuff in chalk on the house remains so I guess you could say it was "drawn AND quartered." -- Bobby G. |
#19
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On Tue, 7 May 2013 12:13:19 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On May 7, 3:03*pm, micky wrote: On Tue, 7 May 2013 04:37:04 -0400, "Robert Green" wrote: We had a tornado 5 blocks away a while back and it scattered an entire park full of tall 2' foot wide oaks like pickup sticks. *If you are in the direct path of a tornado, no amount of bracing is going to help a typical residential structure. Not bracing, but I've heard that attaching the roof well to the top floor of the house can greatly decrease the chance of the roof coming off in a tornado. *That most roofs stay on by gravity and the nails just help. *But where they've learned to use whatever they recommend now, even in tornadoes the roof will likely stay on. I guess that depends on what you mean by "in tornadoes". If it's a tornado passing a couple block or two away, then I agree. If it's a direct hit or very close, then it's likely going to tear up the whole house, roof and all. Yes, but if the whole house blows away, with the roof attached, I think that counts as the roof staying on, Using better roof attachment methods has definitely been proven to make roofs far more wind resistant. That's been demonstrated in FL, where newer roof work has greatly increased connection requirements required by code and it's worked to reduce hurricane damage. |
#20
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On Tue, 07 May 2013 01:05:58 -0400, micky
wrote: Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Cut the trees down. At some point you'll prolly have to anyway. Also, schedule the funerals for your parents and wife. At some point you'll prolly have to anyway., Neighbor's insurance company refused to renew his policy until he had two trees removed. Steel beams enbedded in concrete, at least 10 feet deep. Have these vertical steel beams extend at least 5 feet higher than your roof. Place one beam into the ground every six feet around your entire house. Then weld more steel beams horizontally across the top of all these vertical beams. Also have horizontal beams extend across the roof at 6 foot intervals in both directions. Apply several more at 45deg angles on each corner, crossing the roof. To be even more secure, have more beams at an angle from the top down to the ground, and sink them deep into the ground with several tons of concrete. Be sure to run more beams in a horizontal manner, around the entire house every 6 to 8 feet from the ground to the roof. What you'll have when complete is a huge solid steel cage around your house that should handle even the heaviest tree. As for the guy who said to cut the trees down, please remove your sexual organs. At some point you'll prolly have to anyway. |
#21
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
a home around here got damaged by a tree, it smashed in part of the
roof It made the news because although the insurance company paid the claim, they threatened to cancel the home owners insurance unless the other trees endangering the home were removed. Cant say I blame them the trees were massive, over 50 feet tall and right against the home. The people didnt have the bucks to remove the trees, and insurance wouldnt pay to remove them I think a weathy person saw the story and paid the costs like 7 or 8 grand...... The OP would probably be better off getting the hazardous trees removed before something bad happens.... |
#22
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On May 8, 3:42*am, micky wrote:
On Tue, 7 May 2013 12:13:19 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On May 7, 3:03 pm, micky wrote: On Tue, 7 May 2013 04:37:04 -0400, "Robert Green" wrote: We had a tornado 5 blocks away a while back and it scattered an entire park full of tall 2' foot wide oaks like pickup sticks. If you are in the direct path of a tornado, no amount of bracing is going to help a typical residential structure. Not bracing, but I've heard that attaching the roof well to the top floor of the house can greatly decrease the chance of the roof coming off in a tornado. That most roofs stay on by gravity and the nails just help. But where they've learned to use whatever they recommend now, even in tornadoes the roof will likely stay on. I guess that depends on what you mean by "in tornadoes". If it's a tornado passing a couple block or two away, then I agree. If it's a direct hit or very close, then it's likely going to tear up the whole house, roof and all. Yes, but if the whole house blows away, with the roof attached, I think that counts as the roof staying on, The typical destruction path of houses directly in the path of a tornado is one of complete or serious destruction. In the vast majority of photos that I've seen, you don't have whole houses blown away and put down somewhere else, roof still on. The roof and the rest of the house are ripped apart, because neither part of the structure can withstand the forces. Yes, sometimes you'll see a house that blew away and went 100 ft with it's roof still on. But in that case, it doesn't make much difference anyway, the house is still a total loss. Using better roof attachment methods has definitely been proven to make roofs far more wind resistant. *That's been demonstrated in FL, where newer roof work has greatly increased connection requirements required by code and it's worked to reduce hurricane damage.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#23
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On May 7, 8:20*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
"micky" wrote in message ... On Tue, 7 May 2013 04:37:04 -0400, "Robert Green" wrote: We had a tornado 5 blocks away a while back and it scattered an entire park full of tall 2' foot wide oaks like pickup sticks. *If you are in the direct path of a tornado, no amount of bracing is going to help a typical residential structure. Not bracing, but I've heard that attaching the roof well to the top floor of the house can greatly decrease the chance of the roof coming off in a tornado. *That most roofs stay on by gravity and the nails just help. *But where they've learned to use whatever they recommend now, even in tornadoes the roof will likely stay on. Agreed, but the OP was concerned about hits from trees, a different case than having a roof lifted off by high winds. *Probably the only realistic way to fortify a structure so that it can withstand a falling oak tree is to build a steel roll cage around the house. *If cutting down all the trees drops a home's value, imagine what a giant steel roll cage would do to its "curb appeal." *(-: One other point. *You've doubtless seen the swath a big tornado cuts. *Those big twisters demolish wooden structures, roofs and all. *I still contend that no amount of bracing or improved roof attachment is going to matter if you're a stick-built house in the path of an F3 or greater. *It's sayonara time for that structure as it gets pulverized and dragged into the next county. I agree. As I said previously, I can see addition roof connectors helping in the case where you're near the edge of the tornado path. But if you're directly in the path, it pretty much destroys the whole structure, roof and all. I suppose you could find some cases where it could have helped, where there is a house or two, that for whatever reason was spared. And if that house had the extra connectors, which is certainly a good idea for any areas prone to extreme storms, then it could help that house survive with it's roof intact. But in my view, that's the exceptional case. I will agree that it's been proven time and again that good building codes save lives. Florida's rules about attaching roofs has greatly lessened damage caused by roofs flying off and then striking other homes and even people with flying debris. *While it's still under investigation, that recent collapse in Bangladesh probably wouldn't have happened if that structure had been built better with adherence to building codes and better inspection during construction. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...bangladesh-dha... The exact cause of the collapse has not yet been determined, but Henri Gavin, a civil and environmental engineer at Duke University, speculated that the building's foundation was substandard. "It could be that one edge of the building was on much softer soil than the other, so that part of the building settled down a little bit more," Gavin explained. "That could easily lead to an instability that would precipitate a collapse." Another possibility is that weight on the top factory floors-where the crack was spotted-was unevenly distributed. (Also see pictures: "Sinkhole Swallows Buildings in China.") I haven't followed this closely, but I heard reports around the time it happened that said the upper floors were added, perhaps illegally. That has happened before, I remember a dept store in Japan, for example, where they just added a floor without properly considering the additional loads put on the rest of the structure. |
#24
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On May 8, 11:44*am, wrote:
On Wed, 8 May 2013 05:48:53 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On May 7, 8:20*pm, "Robert Green" wrote: One other point. *You've doubtless seen the swath a big tornado cuts.. *Those big twisters demolish wooden structures, roofs and all. *I still contend that no amount of bracing or improved roof attachment is going to matter if you're a stick-built house in the path of an F3 or greater. *It's sayonara time for that structure as it gets pulverized and dragged into the next county. I agree. *As I said previously, I can see addition roof connectors helping in the case where you're near the edge of the tornado path. *But if you're directly in the path, it pretty much destroys the whole structure, roof and all. *I suppose you could find some cases where it could have helped, where there is a house or two, that for whatever reason was spared. And if that house had the extra connectors, which is certainly a good idea for any areas prone to extreme storms, then it could help that house survive with it's roof intact. *But in my view, that's the exceptional case. Florida just bumped up the wind code requirement in this area to 170 MPH. That certainly starts getting you up into the F-3 tornado category. I'm sure you'd agree the speed of the wind is only one factor. The winds you'd see in a hurricane are straightline for the most part. With a tornado, they are strongly rotational. Also, with a tornado, you not only have high winds, but a very localized low pressure, vacuuming effect that pulls stuff apart. That force on a large roof area could be more destructive than the wind speed. In fact, that is probably what happens in many cases, isn't it? That the roof is essentially sucked off, not blown off? The connector requirements tie the roof, all the way down to the foundation as a continuous system. Yep. If the rest of the house isn't tied to the foundation, then having the roof stay on could just mean the whole house comes up and gets destroyed anyway. I agree that it's a good idea to have the increased tie-downs. Especially since with new construction, the added cost is minimal. I just don't think in the case of a tornado, if the house is directly in the path of an F3+, it's probably not going to make a difference, in most cases. The farther you are away from the center, then obviously the chances of it making a difference that avoids total destruciton increases a lot. |
#25
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
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#26
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
wrote in message
... On Wed, 8 May 2013 05:48:53 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On May 7, 8:20Â pm, "Robert Green" wrote: One other point. Â You've doubtless seen the swath a big tornado cuts. Â Those big twisters demolish wooden structures, roofs and all. Â I still contend that no amount of bracing or improved roof attachment is going to matter if you're a stick-built house in the path of an F3 or greater. Â It's sayonara time for that structure as it gets pulverized and dragged into the next county. I agree. As I said previously, I can see addition roof connectors helping in the case where you're near the edge of the tornado path. But if you're directly in the path, it pretty much destroys the whole structure, roof and all. I suppose you could find some cases where it could have helped, where there is a house or two, that for whatever reason was spared. And if that house had the extra connectors, which is certainly a good idea for any areas prone to extreme storms, then it could help that house survive with it's roof intact. But in my view, that's the exceptional case. Florida just bumped up the wind code requirement in this area to 170 MPH. That certainly starts getting you up into the F-3 tornado category. The connector requirements tie the roof, all the way down to the foundation as a continuous system. I did see what happens when a tornado overcomes this system. The trusses actually broke where the clips held them and the top chords went off in 3 pieces. The reinforced concrete block walls held. One of the occupants was leaving through the open roof when her hubby grabbed her ankles and they both came down and balled up until it passed. Her hair was instant "buck wheat" style with hundreds of tiny braids in it. The best design I have ever seen that is tornado and tree-proof is a house built into a poured concrete spindle The technique is simple 1) Pour foundation 2) Pour vertical shaft to desired height 3) Build frame and pour into it what will be the roof 4) Raise roof to whatever is going to be floor height 5) Pour floor into frame 6) Raise roof & floor to next floor height 7) Repeat 5) & 6) until desired height is reached 8) Build casing around central shaft, fill with reinforced concrete to support roof and floors. The tallest I've seen is 3 stories with a widows walk / terrace on the roof. |
#27
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
wrote in message news:3544a0e8-2b26-4400-ad50-
On May 7, 8:20 pm, "Robert Green" wrote: stuff snipped One other point. You've doubtless seen the swath a big tornado cuts. Those big twisters demolish wooden structures, roofs and all. I still contend that no amount of bracing or improved roof attachment is going to matter if you're a stick-built house in the path of an F3 or greater. It's sayonara time for that structure as it gets pulverized and dragged into the next county. I agree. As I said previously, I can see addition roof connectors helping in the case where you're near the edge of the tornado path. But if you're directly in the path, it pretty much destroys the whole structure, roof and all. I suppose you could find some cases where it could have helped, where there is a house or two, that for whatever reason was spared. And if that house had the extra connectors, which is certainly a good idea for any areas prone to extreme storms, then it could help that house survive with it's roof intact. But in my view, that's the exceptional case. The tornado that scattered the oak trees like pickup sticks lifted a car 12 stories in the air at the U. of Md. and killed the occupants. Then the tornado followed a path along a small creek bed where it hit the park and then made a bee-line for a Home Depot/shopping center, destroying all the large signs and pulling up the edges of the metal roof in the open garden area. Then the funnel just lifted into the air and it was all over, just like that. Anything "stick built" that was right in the path was destroyed. Once the cone becomes filled with debris it becomes a potent destructive force. IIRC, most victims are killed by the impact of the debris. It was just a miracle that it followed the creek where there were no houses for most of its trip through my neighborhood. Now that everyone's got a video camera in their cell phones there's always someone getting a picture of a cow, a shed, a car, a tractor's trailer, a roof, a tree, street signs and all sorts of other airborne debris. Someone even had a still photo of the car in mid air, sailing over the 9 story dormitory and crashing down into the parking lot. The most fascinating pictures I've ever seen of a tornado was from a news chopper flying above the clouds but still close enough to the funnel to film down inside the cone. It was filled with lightning flashes and tons of debris like roof sections, 2 by 4's, trashcans. Then it split into three tornadoes. I can't seem to find it on YouTube, but I've seen the footage shown several times on both the Weather Channel and the Discovery Channel. It's as popular as the footage of the family that climbed under an overpass and filmed the tornado as it passed directly overhead. That's got to change your life forever. (-: I've heard authorities say not to seek shelter there, but it looked like the only place they would have been able to survive (and did). As for my only tornado experience (thank God) the destruction lessened further away from the main track but it was still pretty awesome. Standing on the highest vantage point I could find a few days later, the entire area was a sea of blue tarps. Almost every house for a block or two on either side had major roof or tree damage. Storms like that are exceptionally rare around here and I suspect not many of the newer houses had good "Florida code" connections between roof and frame. I was surprised to learn how many homes have their roofs loosely attached, although that's changing. I was just as surprised when I learned that the Bismarck's huge gun turrets were held on by gravity alone and they just fell off when the ship rolled after sinking. I suppose the designers figured that the tilt angle required to dislodge the turrets meant that it was "game over" anyway when that angle was reached. One thing I found quite interesting is that weeping willows were still standing (stripped almost completely of leaves, though) while the mighty oaks were all felled. When you drive through a decimated area you realize how inadequate TV and newspaper coverage is in communicating the scope of the damage. I heard that said often about both Katrina and Sandy. Until you're doing a flyover or a drive through the scope doesn't come across. Five blocks east and I would have been going to Oz in the middle of a funnel cloud. I will agree that it's been proven time and again that good building codes save lives. Florida's rules about attaching roofs has greatly lessened damage caused by roofs flying off and then striking other homes and even people with flying debris. While it's still under investigation, that recent collapse in Bangladesh probably wouldn't have happened if that structure had been built better with adherence to building codes and better inspection during construction. I haven't followed this closely, but I heard reports around the time it happened that said the upper floors were added, perhaps illegally. That has happened before, I remember a dept store in Japan, for example, where they just added a floor without properly considering the additional loads put on the rest of the structure. Yes, I've read that, too. It's a very common occurrence because each floor is just like the one below it in most cases so when you're on a roll . . . Most construction workers aren't really thinking about the extra stress on the floors below. I read another report today that implied the floors may have "pancaked" and when the top floor collapsed it overload the floor below it, etc. If they went stingy on the rebar, as some reports indicate, it's no surprise. With so many people killed (700+ at least count) at least a few of us are likely wearing clothing sewed by some of the victims of the collapse. If there's anything I hate, it's people who are working hard to make a living getting killed by negligence or criminal activity. People who rob pizza couriers should be castrated. I wonder if a threat like that would make thieving scum think twice? It should. Overbuilding happened in the very tony Montgomery County, MD and bless their souls, they forced the builder to remove the extra two stories he had illegally added to the building and fined him quite heavily because the extra two floors opened him to dozens of inspection violations. I also think TPTB wanted to send a very strong message that adding unsanctioned floors is a big no-no. If IIRC, he even tried to bribe someone on the county council, deepening his legal troubles. Apparently he got away with it in the beginning because no one measured building heights because the planning department thought that permitting services was doing it. Permitting services did not measure because it believed the planning department had enforcement authority. -- Bobby G. |
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On Mon, 6 May 2013 14:26:55 -0700 (PDT), Nona
wrote: Is there anything we can do to improve our own safety with respect to these trees? Line the peak of the roof with plastic Jesuses.... |
#29
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
wrote in message
stuff snipped The biggest problem with the suction/pressure issue is when the building envelope is penetrated. That is what the impact rated windows or shutters are all about. Once high pressure air enters and you have the lower pressures on the roof or other side, forces are increased. Once the destruction gets started, it proceeds pretty fast throughout the structure. The more you lose, the more you lose. I read in several places that the pressure differential theories about tornadoes and open windows are mostly myth and that the impact-rated glass is mostly to prevent flying glass shard and other debris-related injuries. http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/safety.html says: Flying debris is the greatest danger in tornadoes; so store protective coverings (e.g., mattress, sleeping bags, thick blankets, etc) in or next to your shelter space, ready to use on a few seconds' notice . . . Forget about the old notion of opening windows to equalize pressure; the tornado will blast open the windows for you! http://www.accuweather.com/en/weathe...-debunke/61918 says: Similarly, Americans have held on to various other myths causing them to act dangerously and incorrectly in the face of a volatile tornado. 1. Opening windows during a tornado will relieve pressure and save a house from destruction Opening windows during a tornado provides no benefits. Though tornadoes are caused by intense pressure, merely opening windows will not alleviate or equalize this. Because of the intense power of a tornado, it is best to seek shelter underground in a basement, or in a room with no windows altogether. Opening them only creates a portal through which more debris can enter your home. So I am not sure what bottom line is about internal and external air pressure. It does seem that impact rated windows are very useful in keeping flying debris OUT of a house. The great tidal wave that struck Bander Aceh a while back spared some buildings that had open first floors (allowing debris to pass under the main structure). It also spared some buildings that were parallel to the flow of the debris-laden water. The latter presented a much smaller target for water-borne debris than buildings that got hit broadside with the tidal wave. -- Bobby G. |
#30
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
wrote in message
stuff snipped There are no trees that can fall on my house Careful, God will hear you and prove to you that he can work mighty wonders like taking a tree (or a cow or a car) from you neighbor's house (or the next town over) and smashing it into your home. (-: I learned a long time ago that God has more contingencies than humans have contingency plans. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/25/us...anted=all&_r=0 says: In 1995, researchers at the University of Oklahoma wanted to study the pattern of debris carried long distances by tornadoes. So after a tornado, they asked people to send them identifiable objects, for example, canceled checks, which helpfully include the name and address of the check writer, making it easy to figure out how far the check has traveled. In five years, more than 1,000 objects were collected, said John T. Snow, dean of the university's College of Atmospheric and Geographic Sciences, who led the tornado debris project. Among the odder ones was a man's bowling jacket. "It had his name stenciled on the back of it and the name of the bowling alley," Dr. Snow said. Most of the objects landed fairly close, 15 to 20 miles from where they started. A few traveled more than 60 miles. The farthest an object traveled was more than 150 miles. - KENNETH CHANG I remember reading a SciFi novella a while back that described a time where the winds starting increasing for no apparent reason until the Earth was constantly being subjected to 200+ mph winds. It turned out that the best form of building to resist the effects of wind-driven debris was a pyramid shape. Makes sense since the Egyptian pyramids seem to have weathered all sorts of sandstorms and other bad weather for thousands of years. At the U. of Buffalo they used to tie rope lines tied to posts driven into the ground next to the walkways so that students could "rope" their way to class during the frequent "lake effect" blizzards. I was reminded of that when I read about the Sherpas who allegedly tried to kill three climbers on Everest who had allegedly interfered with their rigging climbing lines. http://www.thenational.ae/news/world...ngs-deep-rifts It was hard enough to keep one's balance on level ground at sea level when the "lake effect" blizzards blew through. I can only imagine what it's like to end up high on Everest when a similar storm strikes. I guess that's one reason a lot of people don't come back from their expedition to Everest. Mallory must be rolling over in his grave - no wait, he doesn't have a grave - he's been lying on the ice near the summit for almost 100 years -- Bobby G. |
#31
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
wrote in message
stuff snipped Florida just bumped up the wind code requirement in this area to 170 MPH. That certainly starts getting you up into the F-3 tornado category. The connector requirements tie the roof, all the way down to the foundation as a continuous system. Sadly, even after several serious tornadoes, places in "tornado alley" like Moore have done very little to make local houses more tornado resistant: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/us...ado-alley.html Construction standards in Moore have been studied extensively. In a 2002 study published in the journal of the American Meteorological Society, Timothy P. Marshal, an engineer in Dallas, suggested that "the quality of new home construction generally was no better than homes built prior to the tornado" in 1999. Few homes built in the town after the storm were secured to their foundations with bolted plates, which greatly increase resistance to storms; instead, most were secured with the same kinds of nails and pins that failed in 1999. Just 6 of 40 new homes had closet-size safe rooms. I have less sympathy now for the Okies that get blown clean to Oz. At least the ones that rejected calls for improved building codes based on claims "it's too expensive" to build a basement. Yet the Feds (you and me and our tax dollars) are expected to help rebuild areas affected by tornadoes and hurricanes. How about not giving any disaster funds for rebuilds that DON'T include basements? What would it really cost if a large township got together and decided to help underwrite the cost of installing small pre-fab shelters in cities and towns along Tornado Alley? Sounds like the readiest "shovel ready" project around. Tornado shelters are mass-produced in a pre-fab format that just drops into a 10 by 10 by 10 hole. It seems like Californians and earthquakes, mid-westerners are equally ambivalent about their local menace, tornadoes. -- Bobby G. |
#32
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On May 22, 1:09*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
wrote in message stuff snipped Florida just bumped up the wind code requirement in this area to 170 MPH. That certainly starts getting you up into the F-3 tornado category. The connector requirements tie the roof, all the way down to the foundation as a continuous system. Sadly, even after several serious tornadoes, places in "tornado alley" like Moore have done very little to make local houses more tornado resistant: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/us...ts-resisted-in... Construction standards in Moore have been studied extensively. In a 2002 study published in the journal of the American Meteorological Society, Timothy P. Marshal, an engineer in Dallas, suggested that "the quality of new home construction generally was no better than homes built prior to the tornado" in 1999. Few homes built in the town after the storm were secured to their foundations with bolted plates, which greatly increase resistance to storms; instead, most were secured with the same kinds of nails and pins that failed in 1999. Just 6 of 40 new homes had closet-size safe rooms. I have less sympathy now for the Okies that get blown clean to Oz. *At least the ones that rejected calls for improved building codes based on claims "it's too expensive" to build a basement. *Yet the Feds (you and me and our tax dollars) are expected to help rebuild areas affected by tornadoes and hurricanes. *How about not giving any disaster funds for rebuilds that DON'T include basements? Why is it that you libs immediately want the heavy hand of govt to come cracking down on those that lost their homes? Looking at the total devastation, it's not clear that a basement would have made much difference. In fact, apparently 7 children drowned in the school basement. Oh, and contrary to the sensational headline, the NY Times article actually says that half of the rebuilt homes do have storm shelters. What would it really cost if a large township got together and decided to help underwrite the cost of installing small pre-fab shelters in cities and towns along Tornado Alley? And how exactly are all the people going to get to these shelters in the ten minutes or so that they have? *Sounds like the readiest "shovel ready" project around. Sounds of the libs licking their chops over another govt spending boondoggle. The govt is already broke. *Tornado shelters are mass-produced in a pre-fab format that just drops into a 10 by 10 by 10 hole. *It seems like Californians and earthquakes, mid-westerners are equally ambivalent about their local menace, tornadoes. -- Bobby G. And in a free country, I say that is there right. If they want to buy one of those shelters, leave them free to choose. |
#33
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
On 5/6/2013 5:26 PM, Nona wrote:
Hi! We are about to get our roof replaced but are looking into structural changes to make the roof safer in the event of severe weather. We live in an area that has occasional hurricanes and even small tornadoes. Our property has hundreds of tall oak trees (approximately 1-2 feet in diameter x 70 feet? tall) that are gorgeous but certainly dangerous should they fall on the house. It is not a realistic option to remove all the trees and bracing all of the trees would result in a spiderweb of wires all over the place that is not a safe or realistic option either. Is there anything we can do to improve our own safety with respect to these trees? I have seen too many news stories during hurricanes where people were killed when a tree fell on their roof. We have a two-story gable roof with plywood sheathing and architectural shingles. Would it help to reinforce the trusses with horizontal or cross metal braces? Could we put metal sheathing beneath the plywood? Our goal is not to make the roof impervious to trees but rather to give us at least a small amount of time to escape the house safely should a heavy tree fall on the roof. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Are these live oaks? If so, they have shallow roots and the larger ones can smash a house, not just the roof. All of the "hundreds of tall oak trees" can't be within striking distance of the house! Clean up the ones that are close, remove branches hanging over the roof, remove dead wood and open them up....properly pruned by an arborist, the leaf mass is open to allow the wind to pass THROUGH, not blow down the entire tree. During hurricane preparedness in FL, we attended an interesting talk by the local arborist. One feature of live oaks that makes them dangerous is when two trunks grow together...you can see the enclosed bark on the main trunk....these split and fall more easily in wind. |
#34
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
I have a ton of pines that are between 60-100 feet tall on my acre lot. By tons I mean at least 100. I could never afford to have those all taken down. Someone needs to invent something to protect a roof that would deflect the weight. We just had a huge limb come down from the biggest pine. It shook the entire house and took two maple trees out with it. Just missed the garage. I love my trees because of the privacy but some make me worry. I just don't have that kind of money. Someone said just the big scary ones would cost $50k
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#35
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Reinforce Roof Against Falling Trees?
wrote
I have a ton of pines that are between 60-100 feet tall on my acre lot. By tons I mean at least 100. I could never afford to have those all taken down. Someone needs to invent something to protect a roof that would deflect the weight. You wouldnt be able to afford that either. We just had a huge limb come down from the biggest pine. It shook the entire house and took two maple trees out with it. Just missed the garage. I love my trees because of the privacy but some make me worry. I just don't have that kind of money. Someone said just the big scary ones would cost $50k |
#36
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