Awl --

Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are the
alternatives to running off to HD/Sears on the day my water heater goes?
Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to others?
Review sources? Can they be shipped in a timely way?

Consumer reports has ratings... but they hold them back.... an otherwise
good discussion.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/w...ying-guide.htm
Inybody got the ratings?

More discussion he
http://www.consumersearch.com/water-...-water-heaters

Ahm thinkin electric -- but even with the better thermodynamics, more
expensive, fuel-wise, apparently.
--
EA

In rec.crafts.metalworking Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are the
alternatives to running off to HD/Sears on the day my water heater goes?
Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to others?
Review sources? Can they be shipped in a timely way?

There's always commercial units, like from AO Smith. They'll start in
larger sizes though. It's anecdotal, but I've not seen one rust through on
the 6th year like the stuff at box stores. They must be making strange
fractional guage sheet metal in china that's engineered to rust through
the second the warranty is up on regular water heaters these days.

I have an 80 gal. Ruud electrical unit that's been trouble free for 25+
years. I'd guess all things being equal, comparing empty weights of the
units might imply a heavier gauge tank.


"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
Awl --

Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are the
alternatives to running off to HD/Sears on the day my water heater goes?
Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to
others? Review sources? Can they be shipped in a timely way?

Consumer reports has ratings... but they hold them back.... an otherwise
good discussion.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/w...ying-guide.htm
Inybody got the ratings?

More discussion he
http://www.consumersearch.com/water-...-water-heaters

Ahm thinkin electric -- but even with the better thermodynamics, more
expensive, fuel-wise, apparently.
--
EA

On Friday, February 1, 2013 5:47:51 PM UTC-6, Cydrome Leader wrote:
In rec.crafts.metalworking Existential Angst wrote:

Awl --



Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are the

alternatives to running off to HD/Sears on the day my water heater goes?

Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to others?

Review sources? Can they be shipped in a timely way?



There's always commercial units, like from AO Smith. They'll start in

larger sizes though. It's anecdotal, but I've not seen one rust through on

the 6th year like the stuff at box stores. They must be making strange

fractional guage sheet metal in china that's engineered to rust through

the second the warranty is up on regular water heaters these days.

I agree with you about A.O.Smith.

My mothers has one that is going on 12 years.

Contractors buy a lot of them as well.

Andy

On Fri, 1 Feb 2013 16:31:13 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:


I agree with you about A.O.Smith.

+1

Those I've seen are of good quality. Three tanks were installed in
tandem with power vents installed.

On 2/1/13 5:26 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are the
alternatives to running off to HD/Sears on the day my water heater goes?
Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to others?
Review sources? Can they be shipped in a timely way?

Consumer reports has ratings... but they hold them back.... an otherwise
good discussion.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/w...ying-guide.htm
Inybody got the ratings?

CR didn't actually rate the water heaters. The Buying Guide is
it for information. Natural gas annual operating expense is about half
of electric based on national averages according to them.
CR said go for the longer warranty since those are generally built
better.

More discussion he
http://www.consumersearch.com/water-...-water-heaters

Ahm thinkin electric -- but even with the better thermodynamics, more
expensive, fuel-wise, apparently.

On 02/01/2013 06:26 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are the
alternatives to running off to HD/Sears on the day my water heater goes?
Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to others?
Review sources? Can they be shipped in a timely way?

Consumer reports has ratings... but they hold them back.... an otherwise
good discussion.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/w...ying-guide.htm
Inybody got the ratings?

More discussion he
http://www.consumersearch.com/water-...-water-heaters

Ahm thinkin electric -- but even with the better thermodynamics, more
expensive, fuel-wise, apparently.


I like gas - much faster recovery if you have lots of housemates and/or
a schedule that requires taking a shower soon after doing laundry, etc.
Electrics just can't keep up. Gas water heaters are more expensive
than electric to purchase, but IMHO it is well worth it.

I would also recommend replacing the (likely plastic) drain valve with a
dielectric nipple, ball valve, etc. as suggested before pre-installation
- you'll feel much more confident about flushing out the sediment every
year and therefore will be more likely to actually do it.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Feb 1, 3:26*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
Awl --

Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are the
alternatives to running off *to HD/Sears on the day my water heater goes?
Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to others?
Review sources? Can they be shipped in a timely way?

Consumer reports has ratings... *but they hold them back.... *an otherwise
good discussion.http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/w...ying-guide.htm
Inybody got the ratings?

More discussion hehttp://www.consumersearch.com/water-...-water-heaters

Ahm thinkin electric -- but even with the better thermodynamics, more
expensive, fuel-wise, apparently.
--
EA


"Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to
others?"

Yes.

"Review sources?"

My own experience. Something like 20 years ago, I preferred to use
fuel oil. I used above ground tanks and my hot water heater of choice
was always Bock.

http://www.bockwaterheaters.com/

In my opinion recovery rate is the biggest factor.

On Feb 1, 5:45*pm, jon_banquer wrote:
On Feb 1, 3:26*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:









Awl --

Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are the
alternatives to running off *to HD/Sears on the day my water heater goes?
Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to others?
Review sources? Can they be shipped in a timely way?

Consumer reports has ratings... *but they hold them back.... *an otherwise
good discussion.http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/w...ying-guide.htm
Inybody got the ratings?

More discussion hehttp://www.consumersearch.com/water-...-water-heaters

Ahm thinkin electric -- but even with the better thermodynamics, more
expensive, fuel-wise, apparently.
--
EA

"Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to
others?"

Yes.

"Review sources?"

My own experience. Something like 20 years ago, I preferred to use
fuel oil. I used above ground tanks and my hot water heater of choice
was always Bock.

http://www.bockwaterheaters.com/

In my opinion recovery rate is the biggest factor.

In addition, back then I preferred Carlin Burners. Easy to service and
very well made.

http://www.carlincombustion.com/

I pretty much prefer to go with high quality commercial grade stuff
for just about anything I'm involved with:

http://www.bockwaterheaters.com/Prod...lue_multi.html

after a lifetime of running out of hot water my current tank is 75
gallons 75,000 BTUs... endless hot water without the downsides of
tankless I have 2 washing machines, a dishwasher and 3 people
living here

My last tank was 50 gallons 75,000 BTUs, when it started seeping I
couldnt find a 50 gallon tank so I went with the 75 gallon one.... the
50 gallon tank was fine.....

Friends have wimpy 30 and 40 gallon tanks 25,000 BTU...... I couldnt
live with that

the better tank doesnt cost that much more and my theory. a small tank
means the tank itself cycles hot cold a lot, where larger tanks with
more BTUs lead a less stressful life, they dont got hot cold so much

On Fri, 1 Feb 2013 18:26:05 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

Awl --

Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are the
alternatives to running off to HD/Sears on the day my water heater goes?

Menards. That's what I did. Just measure height of vent, water
fittings and gas fitting placement so you can pick up any needed
fittings or vent.
I got one real close in size but still needed to pick up a couple
nipples to get the same fit. Richmond 40 gal, 6-year.
Cheap, but I never had a tank that didn't last 15 years or so.
It's a "not broke, don't fix item," and I don't keep a spare.
No big deal going even a few days without a water heater.
You can heat water in pots if you can't replace it right away.

Several points:

1. Someone suggested buying a "commercial" water heater.

Not sure that suggestion was serious or not, but for 20+ years, I used A. O. Smith BT251 commercial water heater in my apartment block. It only had a 60 US gallon tank, but it could keep up with the demand because it had a 251,000 BTU/hr input heat capacity. That is, when it fired up, the burner trays burned as much gas as you'd find in the furnace or boiler of a typical house. So, it was primarily the high recovery rate that prevented the water heater from running out of hot water, not it's storage capacity. Also, be aware that the massive heat exchangers in commercial gas fired water heaters make then very heavy. The BT251 water heater, for example, weighed every bit of 500 pounds and it took 3 people to move it down a flight of steps and 6 to move it up a flight of steps. And, I had to go through the hassle of replacing that water heater every 5 to 7 years because they never lasted longer than 7 years. In a residential setting, it might last longer, but you still have the heating up and cooling down of the heat exchanger that will limit the life of the unit. Commercial water heaters aren't made to store hot water like residential water heaters are. They're made to have super fast recovery rates so that they can keep up with 20+ tenants all wanting to shower and bathe first thing every weeekday morning, and so they're not really an economical option for a house where you don't need those high recovery rates.

If you want a POWERFUL water heater, consider buying a coil heater. A coil water heater has 4 components; the coil heater itself, a separate water storage tank, a pump and a thermostat. When the thermostat detects that the water in the tank has cooled down, it turns on the pump and the pump pumps that water through a copper coil that's heated by burning natural gas (or heating oil). The flame impinges directly on the copper tubing carrying the water, so the water heats up very quickly. The advantage of a coil heater is that you can use an insulated stainless steel storage tank so that you never have to replace the water storage tank. Also, the copper tubing coil in a coil heater can be replaced in an hour or two, and that's about the only thing that will ever go wrong with a coil heater. Coil heaters are very common in commercial settings like apartment blocks, hotels and car washes because by simply adding more storage tanks, you can have the same coil heater working all night to heat the water in a half dozen 200 gallon storage tanks to supply the demand for hot water first thing in the morning when 400 hotel guests all want to bathe and shower before heading off to the football game or convention. That is, they're well suited to situations where the demand for hot water can be minimal for hours on end, and then suddenly becomes very great for an hour or two each day.

An alternative would be to have two water heaters plumbed in parallel so that each unit heats half the water you use in your house. That way, if one water heater ever craps out on you, you can limp by on the remaining water heater until the first one is repaired or replaced. This is commonly done, but it's important that the resistance to flow through both water heaters be identical. There are ways to do that by making both the upstream and downstream piping to each water heater the same.

2. Someone suggested that you replace the (typically) plastic drain valve on your water heater with a ball valve and a drain valve. I can understand the concern about the cheap plastic drain valve on a water heater leaking, but if that ever happens, you can always stop the leak by just screwing a brass garden hose cap onto the hose thread of the plastic drain valve:



Just stick a hose washer in the cap and screw it onto the end of the heater's drain valve. Remove that hose cap whenever you want to open the plastic valve to flush out any sediment at the bottom of the heater.

And, you should drain the water out of the heater once a month until it runs clean, not just once a year.

3. Personally, I believe that the lifespan of a water heater is determined almost entirely by the proper sizing of the water heater based on the expected hot water useage of the household, and on the regular replacement of the anode rod in the tank to keep the steel tank galvanically protected. I believe that every company purchases and uses pretty much the same quality porcelain enamel lined tanks and anode rods. How long your water heater lasts depends on how much cumulative thermal shocking it has to endure. That is, how hot the metal of the tank gets when the heater is firing, and how cool it gets between firings. The higher the temperature peaks and the cooler the temperature valleys, the shorter the expected lifespan of the water heater. Proper sizing of the water heater will address this problem. The other is to replace the anode rod in the water heater every 5 years or so.

Cydrome Leader wrote in
:

In rec.crafts.metalworking Existential Angst
wrote:
Awl --

Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are
the alternatives to running off to HD/Sears on the day my water
heater goes? Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably
superior to others? Review sources? Can they be shipped in a timely
way?

There's always commercial units, like from AO Smith. They'll start in
larger sizes though. It's anecdotal, but I've not seen one rust
through on the 6th year like the stuff at box stores. They must be
making strange fractional guage sheet metal in china that's engineered
to rust through the second the warranty is up on regular water heaters
these days.

My mom has a gas AO Smith domestic unit. We're thinking we might want to
replace it. It's only 25 years old, and still appears to be fine, but
it's probably living on borrowed time. I'm just starting my search.

I have no idea if the current AO Smith units are this good anymore, but
that's where I'm starting.

Definitely go for the model with the longest warranty. I think AO Smith
typically does 10 year. I'd also check that whatever you get is still
made in the US.

Doug White

On 2/1/2013 6:26 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are the
alternatives to running off to HD/Sears on the day my water heater goes?
Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to others?
Review sources? Can they be shipped in a timely way?

Consumer reports has ratings... but they hold them back.... an otherwise
good discussion.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/w...ying-guide.htm
Inybody got the ratings?

More discussion he
http://www.consumersearch.com/water-...-water-heaters

Ahm thinkin electric -- but even with the better thermodynamics, more
expensive, fuel-wise, apparently.


Why would someone who is a total expert on thermodynamics and sh*t need
to ask?

On 2/1/2013 6:26 PM, Existential Angst wrote: Awl --

Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are the
alternatives to running off to HD/Sears on the day my water heater goes?
Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to
others?
Review sources? Can they be shipped in a timely way?

I'm happy with my GE 40gal, 12yr, with 40,000 btu burner that I bought
at Home Depot last summer.
The 12yr models have twice the insulation than the 6 & 9 yr models.
Plus if you have a HD credit card, you can get 6 months same as cash.

bob haller wrote:
after a lifetime of running out of hot water my current tank is 75
gallons 75,000 BTUs... endless hot water without the downsides of
tankless I have 2 washing machines, a dishwasher and 3 people
living here

My last tank was 50 gallons 75,000 BTUs, when it started seeping I
couldnt find a 50 gallon tank so I went with the 75 gallon one.... the
50 gallon tank was fine.....

Friends have wimpy 30 and 40 gallon tanks 25,000 BTU...... I couldnt
live with that

the better tank doesnt cost that much more and my theory. a small tank
means the tank itself cycles hot cold a lot, where larger tanks with
more BTUs lead a less stressful life, they dont got hot cold so much

And their significantly larger surface area passes more heat into the area in
which the heater resides.

On Feb 1, 8:52*pm, jon_banquer wrote:
On Feb 1, 5:45*pm, jon_banquer wrote:









On Feb 1, 3:26*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:

Awl --

Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are the
alternatives to running off *to HD/Sears on the day my water heater goes?
Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to others?
Review sources? Can they be shipped in a timely way?

Consumer reports has ratings... *but they hold them back.... *an otherwise
good discussion.http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/w...ying-guide.htm
Inybody got the ratings?

More discussion hehttp://www.consumersearch.com/water-...-water-heaters

Ahm thinkin electric -- but even with the better thermodynamics, more
expensive, fuel-wise, apparently.
--
EA

"Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to
others?"

Yes.

"Review sources?"

My own experience. Something like 20 years ago, I preferred to use
fuel oil. I used above ground tanks and my hot water heater of choice
was always Bock.

http://www.bockwaterheaters.com/

In my opinion recovery rate is the biggest factor.

In addition, back then I preferred Carlin Burners. Easy to service and
very well made.

http://www.carlincombustion.com/

I pretty much prefer to go with high quality commercial grade stuff
for just about anything I'm involved with:

http://www.bockwaterheaters.com/Prod...lue_multi.html

That's good because their manuals and policies are clearer.

On 02/02/2013 09:20 AM, Doug White wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote in
:

In rec.crafts.metalworking Existential Angst
wrote:
Awl --

Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are
the alternatives to running off to HD/Sears on the day my water
heater goes? Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably
superior to others? Review sources? Can they be shipped in a timely
way?

There's always commercial units, like from AO Smith. They'll start in
larger sizes though. It's anecdotal, but I've not seen one rust
through on the 6th year like the stuff at box stores. They must be
making strange fractional guage sheet metal in china that's engineered
to rust through the second the warranty is up on regular water heaters
these days.

My mom has a gas AO Smith domestic unit. We're thinking we might want to
replace it. It's only 25 years old, and still appears to be fine, but
it's probably living on borrowed time. I'm just starting my search.

I have no idea if the current AO Smith units are this good anymore, but
that's where I'm starting.

Definitely go for the model with the longest warranty. I think AO Smith
typically does 10 year. I'd also check that whatever you get is still
made in the US.

Doug White


Pull the anode and have a look - if there's no wire showing, replace it
(the anode that is) and enjoy hot water for another 20ish years

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"George" wrote in message
...
On 2/1/2013 6:26 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are the
alternatives to running off to HD/Sears on the day my water heater goes?
Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to
others?
Review sources? Can they be shipped in a timely way?

Consumer reports has ratings... but they hold them back.... an
otherwise
good discussion.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/w...ying-guide.htm
Inybody got the ratings?

More discussion he
http://www.consumersearch.com/water-...-water-heaters

Ahm thinkin electric -- but even with the better thermodynamics, more
expensive, fuel-wise, apparently.


Why would someone who is a total expert on thermodynamics and sh*t need to
ask?


WAAAAAAAAAA I don't know the ideal gas law or what it means.....
WAAAAAAAAAA I never heard of Carnot, and certainly didn't know engine
effic was related to temp.
WAAAAAAAAAA I certainly didn't know the two could be combined wrt
compression ratio

But, on the brite side, you proly give very good head.
--
EA

On Feb 1, 4:26*pm, "Existential Angst" wrote:
Awl --

Apropos of the recent threads on anodes, tank/tankless, etc, what are the
alternatives to running off *to HD/Sears on the day my water heater goes?
Are there water heaters out there that are demonstrably superior to others?
Review sources? Can they be shipped in a timely way?

Consumer reports has ratings... *but they hold them back.... *an otherwise
good discussion.http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/w...ying-guide.htm
Inybody got the ratings?

More discussion hehttp://www.consumersearch.com/water-...-water-heaters

Ahm thinkin electric -- but even with the better thermodynamics, more
expensive, fuel-wise, apparently.
--
EA

If you're in the US, your electric bill is about to take a big hike.
So gas would be my recommendation. As far as which one, there was
only one make and model that fit the utility closet where it lives at
my place, so that was an easy choice. If you get a glass-lined one,
blow it out regularly and it's got more than a skimpy insulation
blanket, you'll probably be happy. Probably a long warranty will cost
more, but might mean that the company put more than tomato can metal
in the tank. Needed capacity is going to be determined by how many
people you've got in the place, how many showers they take and how
many loads of laundry a week you do. I know my folk's gas and water
bill took a steep dive after my sister moved out.

Any ratings you see are NOT going to be about durability, are purely
running costs. Most retail models will have sticker on them at the
store with that info. And they'll be biased towards the high-end
computerized models. They probably won't last long enough to pay off
the replacement of a simple pilot light with all the extra hardware.

Stan

Transition Zone wrote in news:8ce6d30e-658e-4a54-
:

http://www.bockwaterheaters.com/Prod...lue_multi.html

Their home units also have half the warranty duration of the better
residential models.

No thanks.

Doug White