"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville’s initiative to install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6519967.story

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

On Jan 24, 8:55*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville s initiative to install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ille/chi-naper...

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

I live in Naperville. I have met Jennifer Stahl one time when I
picked up something she was recycling. She seems normal enuf, but
there is a lot the press has missed.

First, most of the objectors don'tr understand radio waves. They
organize their protests about radio waves using their cellphones. We
had had wireless water meters for 10+ years, nobady seems to know or
care.

Second, the objectors are worried about privacy. These claims are
legitimate. The City claimed the system was safe/unhackable. Then,
a couple of months ago, the City of Naperville, which runs the
electric distribution department, was hacked and their entire e-mail
and other internal systems were shut down while they spent $100,000
for a consultant to fix the system (for now). So the claims are
legitimate. But, unless they are growing Pot under grow lights at 3
am, who cares if the City knows when you use electricity and when you
do not?

Stay tuned. this is going to be fun to watch!!!

On Jan 24, 2:30 pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Jan 24, 8:55 am, "HeyBub" wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville s initiative to install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ille/chi-naper...

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

I live in Naperville. I have met Jennifer Stahl one time when I
picked up something she was recycling. She seems normal enuf, but
there is a lot the press has missed.

First, most of the objectors don'tr understand radio waves. They
organize their protests about radio waves using their cellphones. We
had had wireless water meters for 10+ years, nobady seems to know or
care.

Second, the objectors are worried about privacy. These claims are
legitimate. The City claimed the system was safe/unhackable. Then,
a couple of months ago, the City of Naperville, which runs the
electric distribution department, was hacked and their entire e-mail
and other internal systems were shut down while they spent $100,000
for a consultant to fix the system (for now). So the claims are
legitimate. But, unless they are growing Pot under grow lights at 3
am, who cares if the City knows when you use electricity and when you
do not?

Stay tuned. this is going to be fun to watch!!!

I have one installed at a vacation cabin and I can log onto
the system from my residence, which is
about 150 miles away, and download the power useage in 15 minute
increments for any period of interest. It is very comforting
to be at my residence and know for a fact that no one
is using electricity at the other place, and that I have
remembered to unplug the fridge, turn off the air,
and turn off the hot water heater...... since it would be
a real pain to make a trip there just to throw a couple
switches and I would worry until I went back...
The power company charges an extra $2 or $3 a month
for the "advanced meter" and I have no choice about
it, but I also have no objection.

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 12:30:43 -0800 (PST), "hr(bob)
" wrote:

On Jan 24, 8:55*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville s initiative to install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ille/chi-naper...

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

I live in Naperville. I have met Jennifer Stahl one time when I
picked up something she was recycling. She seems normal enuf, but
there is a lot the press has missed.

First, most of the objectors don'tr understand radio waves. They
organize their protests about radio waves using their cellphones. We
had had wireless water meters for 10+ years, nobady seems to know or
care.

Second, the objectors are worried about privacy. These claims are
legitimate. The City claimed the system was safe/unhackable. Then,
a couple of months ago, the City of Naperville, which runs the
electric distribution department, was hacked and their entire e-mail
and other internal systems were shut down while they spent $100,000
for a consultant to fix the system (for now). So the claims are
legitimate. But, unless they are growing Pot under grow lights at 3
am, who cares if the City knows when you use electricity and when you
do not?

Stay tuned. this is going to be fun to watch!!!


Speaking for myself, NOT. I agree with you... I don't care if
someone knows when I use, do not use electricity. I saw this video
earlier today.

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:29:54 -0800 (PST), Robert
wrote:

On Jan 24, 2:30 pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Jan 24, 8:55 am, "HeyBub" wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville s initiative to install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ille/chi-naper...

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

I live in Naperville. I have met Jennifer Stahl one time when I
picked up something she was recycling. She seems normal enuf, but
there is a lot the press has missed.

First, most of the objectors don'tr understand radio waves. They
organize their protests about radio waves using their cellphones. We
had had wireless water meters for 10+ years, nobady seems to know or
care.

Second, the objectors are worried about privacy. These claims are
legitimate. The City claimed the system was safe/unhackable. Then,
a couple of months ago, the City of Naperville, which runs the
electric distribution department, was hacked and their entire e-mail
and other internal systems were shut down while they spent $100,000
for a consultant to fix the system (for now). So the claims are
legitimate. But, unless they are growing Pot under grow lights at 3
am, who cares if the City knows when you use electricity and when you
do not?

Stay tuned. this is going to be fun to watch!!!

I have one installed at a vacation cabin and I can log onto
the system from my residence, which is
about 150 miles away, and download the power useage in 15 minute
increments for any period of interest. It is very comforting
to be at my residence and know for a fact that no one
is using electricity at the other place, and that I have
remembered to unplug the fridge, turn off the air,
and turn off the hot water heater...... since it would be
a real pain to make a trip there just to throw a couple
switches and I would worry until I went back...
The power company charges an extra $2 or $3 a month
for the "advanced meter" and I have no choice about
it, but I also have no objection.

Nevada Energy went through this smart meter fight awhile back. It
went before the PUC in Nevada. People from all over were worried for
many reasons. Some were really crazy. Odd people.

After the big sha-back, about less than 2,000 folks opted out in a
city of about 2.5 Million.

Now they can be charged fees for exchanging the meter or a rent on the
old meter?. I forget, but it was a bad win for the opponents of smart
meters.

My smart meter has never caused me to see a bag full of otters.

Now they can be charged fees for exchanging the meter or a rent on the
old meter?. I forget, but it was a bad win for the opponents of smart
meters.

My smart meter has never caused me to see a bag full of otters.


I have nothing against smart meters, in fact I want on because the power
company is able to offer Time based rates. I use most power in the evening
not during the day so I should be able to enjoy a cost savings.

So the question is.... to the folks out there that now have smart meters...

Is your power company offering you TIME OF DAY DISCOUNT RATES...


That's what is supposed to be the benefit for us little guys...

Mark

On 1/24/2013 4:29 PM, Robert wrote:
On Jan 24, 2:30 pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Jan 24, 8:55 am, "HeyBub" wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville s initiative to install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ille/chi-naper...

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

I live in Naperville. I have met Jennifer Stahl one time when I
picked up something she was recycling. She seems normal enuf, but
there is a lot the press has missed.

First, most of the objectors don'tr understand radio waves. They
organize their protests about radio waves using their cellphones. We
had had wireless water meters for 10+ years, nobady seems to know or
care.

Second, the objectors are worried about privacy. These claims are
legitimate. The City claimed the system was safe/unhackable. Then,
a couple of months ago, the City of Naperville, which runs the
electric distribution department, was hacked and their entire e-mail
and other internal systems were shut down while they spent $100,000
for a consultant to fix the system (for now). So the claims are
legitimate. But, unless they are growing Pot under grow lights at 3
am, who cares if the City knows when you use electricity and when you
do not?

Stay tuned. this is going to be fun to watch!!!

I have one installed at a vacation cabin and I can log onto
the system from my residence, which is
about 150 miles away, and download the power useage in 15 minute
increments for any period of interest. It is very comforting
to be at my residence and know for a fact that no one
is using electricity at the other place, and that I have
remembered to unplug the fridge, turn off the air,
and turn off the hot water heater...... since it would be
a real pain to make a trip there just to throw a couple
switches and I would worry until I went back...
The power company charges an extra $2 or $3 a month
for the "advanced meter" and I have no choice about
it, but I also have no objection.


In other words, you will never be able to hide out at your cabin without
The Secret Police knowing where you are. Darn, when you
decide to join the Resistance, you'll have to go off grid. ^_^

TDD

On 1/24/2013 5:19 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:29:54 -0800 (PST), Robert
wrote:

On Jan 24, 2:30 pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Jan 24, 8:55 am, "HeyBub" wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville s initiative to install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ille/chi-naper...

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

I live in Naperville. I have met Jennifer Stahl one time when I
picked up something she was recycling. She seems normal enuf, but
there is a lot the press has missed.

First, most of the objectors don'tr understand radio waves. They
organize their protests about radio waves using their cellphones. We
had had wireless water meters for 10+ years, nobady seems to know or
care.

Second, the objectors are worried about privacy. These claims are
legitimate. The City claimed the system was safe/unhackable. Then,
a couple of months ago, the City of Naperville, which runs the
electric distribution department, was hacked and their entire e-mail
and other internal systems were shut down while they spent $100,000
for a consultant to fix the system (for now). So the claims are
legitimate. But, unless they are growing Pot under grow lights at 3
am, who cares if the City knows when you use electricity and when you
do not?

Stay tuned. this is going to be fun to watch!!!

I have one installed at a vacation cabin and I can log onto
the system from my residence, which is
about 150 miles away, and download the power useage in 15 minute
increments for any period of interest. It is very comforting
to be at my residence and know for a fact that no one
is using electricity at the other place, and that I have
remembered to unplug the fridge, turn off the air,
and turn off the hot water heater...... since it would be
a real pain to make a trip there just to throw a couple
switches and I would worry until I went back...
The power company charges an extra $2 or $3 a month
for the "advanced meter" and I have no choice about
it, but I also have no objection.

Nevada Energy went through this smart meter fight awhile back. It
went before the PUC in Nevada. People from all over were worried for
many reasons. Some were really crazy. Odd people.

After the big sha-back, about less than 2,000 folks opted out in a
city of about 2.5 Million.

Now they can be charged fees for exchanging the meter or a rent on the
old meter?. I forget, but it was a bad win for the opponents of smart
meters.

My smart meter has never caused me to see a bag full of otters.


Some privacy advocates are covering their smart meters with aluminum
foil to block the wireless signals. The fears of many are based on
"function creep" because it always seems to happen with new technology
such as GPS containing cellphones where your whereabouts are always
known to government snoops. A problem I've personally had to deal with
is the irrational belief by some people that anyone who desires privacy
must be involved in criminal activities. Years ago when I lived in
another suburb, a neighbor who lived a few houses away worked for a
customer of mine. He was a cop groupie and a big fan of cop shows. One
day I asked him to please not tell other folks where I lived because I
don't want to be bothered by repair and service requests when I'm at
home. The goofball called the police to turn me in thinking he was going
to get some reward for helping catch America's Most Wanted. I was
visiting him one day when a local cop came by and I introduced myself
and asked the officer if he knew my cop friends who worked in special
surveillance squads whom I had assisted with technical problems they had
with their equipment. Needless to say, the goofball was very
disappointed by the fact that I actually worked with law enforcement
people from time to time and he had not won the crime lottery. Over the
years, whenever I bump into my former nosy neighbor, I always inquire as
to how he is spending his reward money. ^_^

TDD

On Friday 25 January 2013 01:01 The Daring Dufas wrote in alt.home.repair:


In other words, you will never be able to hide out at your cabin without
The Secret Police knowing where you are. Darn, when you
decide to join the Resistance, you'll have to go off grid. ^_^

Ah - but he can pull some serious misdirection now. All he needs is a diesel
genny.

He should use the grid as normal when he visits to establish a pattern.

if he needs to "hide" he simply does not use the grid, but runs up the genny
- and of course leaves his mobiles on and on charge at home.

The spooks are now "sure" that he cannot be in his cabin. They might wonder,
if they cannot get a positive obo on him back in the city, but the
misdirection could buy him a few days or even weeks, depending on how hard
they are looking...

If he didn't have a smart meter, and they wanted to watch him, they might
well stake the place out or put some other monitoring in that he doesn't
know about.

Well, they might anyway, but given the smart meter, they might not - and the
PP at least knows about that. You get the idea anyway...
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it."

On 1/25/2013 3:46 AM, Tim Watts wrote:
On Friday 25 January 2013 01:01 The Daring Dufas wrote in alt.home.repair:


In other words, you will never be able to hide out at your cabin without
The Secret Police knowing where you are. Darn, when you
decide to join the Resistance, you'll have to go off grid. ^_^

Ah - but he can pull some serious misdirection now. All he needs is a diesel
genny.

He should use the grid as normal when he visits to establish a pattern.

if he needs to "hide" he simply does not use the grid, but runs up the genny
- and of course leaves his mobiles on and on charge at home.

The spooks are now "sure" that he cannot be in his cabin. They might wonder,
if they cannot get a positive obo on him back in the city, but the
misdirection could buy him a few days or even weeks, depending on how hard
they are looking...

If he didn't have a smart meter, and they wanted to watch him, they might
well stake the place out or put some other monitoring in that he doesn't
know about.

Well, they might anyway, but given the smart meter, they might not - and the
PP at least knows about that. You get the idea anyway...


That's why GPS jammers are so useful when you hop in your car so your
smart phone can't tattle on you. One fellow found a tracker under his
car's bumper but instead of destroying it, he stuck it on a long haul
truck. ^_^

TDD

On Friday 25 January 2013 10:36 The Daring Dufas wrote in alt.home.repair:

That's why GPS jammers are so useful when you hop in your car so your
smart phone can't tattle on you. One fellow found a tracker under his
car's bumper but instead of destroying it, he stuck it on a long haul
truck. ^_^

Would have been really funny if he was in a position to stick it on a
fishing boat
--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://www.dionic.net/tim/

"She got her looks from her father. He's a plastic surgeon."

On 1/25/2013 5:44 AM, Tim Watts wrote:
On Friday 25 January 2013 10:36 The Daring Dufas wrote in alt.home.repair:

That's why GPS jammers are so useful when you hop in your car so your
smart phone can't tattle on you. One fellow found a tracker under his
car's bumper but instead of destroying it, he stuck it on a long haul
truck. ^_^

Would have been really funny if he was in a position to stick it on a
fishing boat


I thoroughly believe that the citizenry should use technology to defeat
the technology of government and commercial snoops. I spent so many
years scrambling information on me that was in government and private
databases that I had trouble convincing a credit card company that I
actually existed. It is fun to exercise your right to privacy and watch
the confusion on the dossier collectors faces when they try to pin you
down or categorize you. I use private mail box services and don't get
mail or packages where I live, VoIP and prepaid cellphones pinned to my
private mailbox for an address. Privacy is something you have to work
hard for and guard it jealously if you want to keep it. ^_^

TDD

On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:55:51 -0600, "HeyBub" wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Napervilles initiative to install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6519967.story

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

The citizens of Naperville have got several valid points.

Privacy..(yet another added risk..)

RF emissions.. (I've seen 900mhz cell phones cause RF burns.. )
Noteable increases in cell phone linked Brain tumors..
There is more too this issue which is yet to be documented..
Prior studies done by cell phone industry don't cut it(bogus testing conditions),
haven't been updated for newer tech.(higher frequencies, exotic modulation).
SM have a fairly high transmit duty cycle, since most of these meters are set up in
ad-hoc mode, and often relay/forward data between hundreds/thousands of other customer
meters every few minutes.

Reliability/Safety/Tort.. (Power CO can remotely shutdown/turnon customer's power without
leaving a trace). It's only a mater of time before any encryption protocal deployed is
compromised [Just like WEP, WPA. WPA2(have all been cracked)], and other people will have
this capability.

Fraud/Tort.. Smart meters can/are being programmed @ the manufacturer to deliberately
over charge a large number customers. It is well known that customers with PV panels
have been double charged for the energy they supplied to the grid. Note: This also
affects other non-RE customers to a lessor degree(reactive loads are being
mismeasured/double charged).

Naperville's bull**** policy of charging 24.95 a month to read a non-smart meter is
bogus..
Let the homeowner read his/her meter each month, and submit the data on a web page..
Every year or two.. the power co can confirm it..simple,easy, cheap..

P.S. I also refused the installation of one these Bogus smart meters. But I did my
homework, and talked to GE's field engineering rep about the capibilities and ordering
options of the meters being installed.

Thank god.. I don't live in Naperville, or I would be dragiing these City officials into
court myself.

On 1/25/2013 10:14 PM, T. Keating wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:55:51 -0600, "HeyBub" wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Napervilles initiative to install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6519967.story

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

The citizens of Naperville have got several valid points.

Privacy..(yet another added risk..)

RF emissions.. (I've seen 900mhz cell phones cause RF burns.. )
Noteable increases in cell phone linked Brain tumors..
There is more too this issue which is yet to be documented..
Prior studies done by cell phone industry don't cut it(bogus testing conditions),
haven't been updated for newer tech.(higher frequencies, exotic modulation).
SM have a fairly high transmit duty cycle, since most of these meters are set up in
ad-hoc mode, and often relay/forward data between hundreds/thousands of other customer
meters every few minutes.

Reliability/Safety/Tort.. (Power CO can remotely shutdown/turnon customer's power without
leaving a trace). It's only a mater of time before any encryption protocal deployed is
compromised [Just like WEP, WPA. WPA2(have all been cracked)], and other people will have
this capability.

Fraud/Tort.. Smart meters can/are being programmed @ the manufacturer to deliberately
over charge a large number customers. It is well known that customers with PV panels
have been double charged for the energy they supplied to the grid. Note: This also
affects other non-RE customers to a lessor degree(reactive loads are being
mismeasured/double charged).

Naperville's bull**** policy of charging 24.95 a month to read a non-smart meter is
bogus..
Let the homeowner read his/her meter each month, and submit the data on a web page..
Every year or two.. the power co can confirm it..simple,easy, cheap..

P.S. I also refused the installation of one these Bogus smart meters. But I did my
homework, and talked to GE's field engineering rep about the capibilities and ordering
options of the meters being installed.

Thank god.. I don't live in Naperville, or I would be dragiing these City officials into
court myself.


I can see hackers selling low power jammers for the darn things and one
could be hidden in the wall near the meter. As long as you don't touch
or physically damage the meter there isn't much the snoops can do. Of
course, I would have a motion detector to turn the jammer off whenever
anyone came around the meter to investigate. ^_^

TDD

T. Keating wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:55:51 -0600, "HeyBub" wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Napervilles initiative to install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6519967.story

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

The citizens of Naperville have got several valid points.

Privacy..(yet another added risk..)

RF emissions.. (I've seen 900mhz cell phones cause RF burns.. )
Noteable increases in cell phone linked Brain tumors..
There is more too this issue which is yet to be documented..
Prior studies done by cell phone industry don't cut it(bogus testing conditions),
haven't been updated for newer tech.(higher frequencies, exotic modulation).
SM have a fairly high transmit duty cycle, since most of these meters are set up in
ad-hoc mode, and often relay/forward data between hundreds/thousands of other customer
meters every few minutes.

Reliability/Safety/Tort.. (Power CO can remotely shutdown/turnon customer's power without
leaving a trace). It's only a mater of time before any encryption protocal deployed is
compromised [Just like WEP, WPA. WPA2(have all been cracked)], and other people will have
this capability.

Fraud/Tort.. Smart meters can/are being programmed @ the manufacturer to deliberately
over charge a large number customers. It is well known that customers with PV panels
have been double charged for the energy they supplied to the grid. Note: This also
affects other non-RE customers to a lessor degree(reactive loads are being
mismeasured/double charged).

Naperville's bull**** policy of charging 24.95 a month to read a non-smart meter is
bogus..
Let the homeowner read his/her meter each month, and submit the data on a web page..
Every year or two.. the power co can confirm it..simple,easy, cheap..

P.S. I also refused the installation of one these Bogus smart meters. But I did my
homework, and talked to GE's field engineering rep about the capibilities and ordering
options of the meters being installed.

Thank god.. I don't live in Naperville, or I would be dragiing these City officials into
court myself.

Put a cell phone 1/4 inch from head and you get a power level depending on
your tower strength. Put it 12 inches away, and it's down 100 times less.
Two feet 400 times less. Four feet 1600 times less.

Greg

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 04:31:40 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:

T. Keating wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:55:51 -0600, "HeyBub" wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Napervilles initiative to install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6519967.story

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

The citizens of Naperville have got several valid points.

Privacy..(yet another added risk..)

RF emissions.. (I've seen 900mhz cell phones cause RF burns.. )
Noteable increases in cell phone linked Brain tumors..
There is more too this issue which is yet to be documented..
Prior studies done by cell phone industry don't cut it(bogus testing conditions),
haven't been updated for newer tech.(higher frequencies, exotic modulation).
SM have a fairly high transmit duty cycle, since most of these meters are set up in
ad-hoc mode, and often relay/forward data between hundreds/thousands of other customer
meters every few minutes.

Reliability/Safety/Tort.. (Power CO can remotely shutdown/turnon customer's power without
leaving a trace). It's only a mater of time before any encryption protocal deployed is
compromised [Just like WEP, WPA. WPA2(have all been cracked)], and other people will have
this capability.

Fraud/Tort.. Smart meters can/are being programmed @ the manufacturer to deliberately
over charge a large number customers. It is well known that customers with PV panels
have been double charged for the energy they supplied to the grid. Note: This also
affects other non-RE customers to a lessor degree(reactive loads are being
mismeasured/double charged).

Naperville's bull**** policy of charging 24.95 a month to read a non-smart meter is
bogus..
Let the homeowner read his/her meter each month, and submit the data on a web page..
Every year or two.. the power co can confirm it..simple,easy, cheap..

P.S. I also refused the installation of one these Bogus smart meters. But I did my
homework, and talked to GE's field engineering rep about the capibilities and ordering
options of the meters being installed.

Thank god.. I don't live in Naperville, or I would be dragiing these City officials into
court myself.

Put a cell phone 1/4 inch from head and you get a power level depending on
your tower strength. Put it 12 inches away, and it's down 100 times less.
Two feet 400 times less. Four feet 1600 times less.

Not really... The peak field reading drop off is a function of 1/2 wavelength(15.6cm
@900mhz), propogation speed through various mediums, and antenna configuration(some where
between inverse squared, and inverse cubed.).

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 04:31:40 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:

T. Keating wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:55:51 -0600, "HeyBub" wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Napervilles initiative to install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6519967.story

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

The citizens of Naperville have got several valid points.

Privacy..(yet another added risk..)

RF emissions.. (I've seen 900mhz cell phones cause RF burns.. )
Noteable increases in cell phone linked Brain tumors..
There is more too this issue which is yet to be documented..
Prior studies done by cell phone industry don't cut it(bogus testing conditions),
haven't been updated for newer tech.(higher frequencies, exotic modulation).
SM have a fairly high transmit duty cycle, since most of these meters are set up in
ad-hoc mode, and often relay/forward data between hundreds/thousands of other customer
meters every few minutes.

Reliability/Safety/Tort.. (Power CO can remotely shutdown/turnon customer's power without
leaving a trace). It's only a mater of time before any encryption protocal deployed is
compromised [Just like WEP, WPA. WPA2(have all been cracked)], and other people will have
this capability.

Fraud/Tort.. Smart meters can/are being programmed @ the manufacturer to deliberately
over charge a large number customers. It is well known that customers with PV panels
have been double charged for the energy they supplied to the grid. Note: This also
affects other non-RE customers to a lessor degree(reactive loads are being
mismeasured/double charged).

Naperville's bull**** policy of charging 24.95 a month to read a non-smart meter is
bogus..
Let the homeowner read his/her meter each month, and submit the data on a web page..
Every year or two.. the power co can confirm it..simple,easy, cheap..

P.S. I also refused the installation of one these Bogus smart meters. But I did my
homework, and talked to GE's field engineering rep about the capibilities and ordering
options of the meters being installed.

Thank god.. I don't live in Naperville, or I would be dragiing these City officials into
court myself.

Put a cell phone 1/4 inch from head and you get a power level depending on
your tower strength. Put it 12 inches away, and it's down 100 times less.
Two feet 400 times less. Four feet 1600 times less.

Not really... The peak field reading drop off is a function of 1/2 wavelength(16.6cm
@900mhz), propogation speed through various mediums, and antenna configuration(some where
between inverse squared, and inverse cubed.).

"T. Keating" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:55:51 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville's initiative to
install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6519967.story

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

The citizens of Naperville have got several valid points.

Privacy..(yet another added risk..)

RF emissions.. (I've seen 900mhz cell phones cause RF burns.. )

I've worked with RF from 100KHz to GHz for near 50 years. I defy you to
produce sufficient power to induce a RF burn with 0.6 watt input (RF
output is down by 50%+)

Notable increases in cell phone linked Brain tumors..

Cites?

There is more too this issue which is yet to be documented..
Prior studies done by cell phone industry don't cut it(bogus testing
conditions),
haven't been updated for newer tech.(higher frequencies, exotic
modulation).

Have you read those studies? Much less reviewed the reputations of the folk
running them or the protocols set up for them? Hint I attended the hearings
in Washington and visited some of the research as it was being conducted.

SM have a fairly high transmit duty cycle, since most of these meters are
set up in
ad-hoc mode, and often relay/forward data between hundreds/thousands of
other customer
meters every few minutes.

Reliability/Safety/Tort.. (Power CO can remotely shutdown/turnon
customer's power without
leaving a trace). It's only a mater of time before any encryption protocol
deployed is
compromised [Just like WEP, WPA. WPA2(have all been cracked)], and other
people will have
this capability.

In part true but to what end? Unless the do-bad has a personal hard on for
the home owner what could be accomplished other than turning off the power?
Which depending on how the system was configured could be automatically
switched back on in short order?

Fraud/Tort.. Smart meters can/are being programmed @ the manufacturer to
deliberately
over charge a large number customers.

Could be but the first time a utility or the manufacturer is caught at that
game ... FILM AT 6 & 11 and every 1/2 hour for the rest of the week.

It is well known that customers with PV panels
have been double charged for the energy they supplied to the grid. Note:
This also
affects other non-RE customers to a lesser degree(reactive loads are being
mismeasured/double charged).

Any PV system connected to the grid MUST HAVE UTILITY approval and
inspection (I've done a few). If not as soon as it's found out the service
is cut and WILL NOT BE RESTORED until there is a proctor scope examination
of the electrical system on the entire property. Fees and fines must be
paid in advance.

Power meters do not read power factor/phase change they ONLY read true power
delivered. Power factor changes are only applied to large industry
customers and this to the extent that the charges are interned to educate
the user to address and adjust the power factor losses up the line. (The
process is taugh in Power 101 levels of EE classes at every decent
engineering school)

Power meters are directional. Long time back a bunch of rural stump jumpers
figured that out and went to flipping the meters. Got away with it until
one or two forgot to switch them back before the meter reader showed up.
They also firuged out that a Dasey BB gun could shoot a small hole in the
glass cover that they could stick a straw though to stop the meter. The
result was one hell of a hard (BB proff) glass cover over the meter.

Naperville's bull**** policy of charging 24.95 a month to read a non-smart
meter is
bogus..

Likely a tariff item and just as likely to be continued until the users
contact the regulators.
Expect a lot of wild a** justification claims on the part of the utility for
the need for those fees.

Want a real case of the GoGoLaRough (red a**) take a look at your phone and
cable bill. Then follow the various fees. More than a few have no basis
in law, tarriff or logic save in the mind of some creative manager in the
provider company.

Let the homeowner read his/her meter each month, and submit the data on a
web page..
Every year or two.. the power co can confirm it..simple,easy, cheap..

P.S. I also refused the installation of one these Bogus smart meters.
But I did my
homework, and talked to GE's field engineering rep about the capabilities
and ordering
options of the meters being installed.

Did the rep mention the potential vulnerability of the meters to electronic
tampering to make them useless? Yes they are and to be honest the industry
has not quite gotten a handle on that problem (see stump jumpers above)
saving grace is none of the end users have (yet) figured it out either.

Thank god.. I don't live in Naperville, or I would be dragging these City
officials into
court myself.

You'd be out on your butt and the court house steps by summery. That is on
the assumption you could find a qualified lawyer to take the case.

"gregz" wrote in message
...
T. Keating wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:55:51 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville's initiative to
install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying
crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent
away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6519967.story

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

The citizens of Naperville have got several valid points.

Privacy..(yet another added risk..)

RF emissions.. (I've seen 900mhz cell phones cause RF burns.. )
Noteable increases in cell phone linked Brain tumors..
There is more too this issue which is yet to be documented..
Prior studies done by cell phone industry don't cut it(bogus testing
conditions),
haven't been updated for newer tech.(higher frequencies, exotic
modulation).
SM have a fairly high transmit duty cycle, since most of these meters
are set up in
ad-hoc mode, and often relay/forward data between hundreds/thousands of
other customer
meters every few minutes.

Reliability/Safety/Tort.. (Power CO can remotely shutdown/turnon
customer's power without
leaving a trace). It's only a mater of time before any encryption
protocal deployed is
compromised [Just like WEP, WPA. WPA2(have all been cracked)], and other
people will have
this capability.

Fraud/Tort.. Smart meters can/are being programmed @ the manufacturer to
deliberately
over charge a large number customers. It is well known that customers
with PV panels
have been double charged for the energy they supplied to the grid. Note:
This also
affects other non-RE customers to a lessor degree(reactive loads are
being
mismeasured/double charged).

Naperville's bull**** policy of charging 24.95 a month to read a
non-smart meter is
bogus..
Let the homeowner read his/her meter each month, and submit the data on a
web page..
Every year or two.. the power co can confirm it..simple,easy, cheap..

P.S. I also refused the installation of one these Bogus smart meters.
But I did my
homework, and talked to GE's field engineering rep about the capibilities
and ordering
options of the meters being installed.

Thank god.. I don't live in Naperville, or I would be dragiing these
City officials into
court myself.

Put a cell phone 1/4 inch from head and you get a power level depending on
your tower strength. Put it 12 inches away, and it's down 100 times less.
Two feet 400 times less. Four feet 1600 times less.

To have any potential of a physical impact the device needs to be within the
near field of the RF. At 800 MHz that is on the order of 2.5 cm.

"T. Keating" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 04:31:40 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:

T. Keating wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:55:51 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville?Ts initiative to
install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying
crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent
away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6519967.story

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

The citizens of Naperville have got several valid points.

Privacy..(yet another added risk..)

RF emissions.. (I've seen 900mhz cell phones cause RF burns.. )
Noteable increases in cell phone linked Brain tumors..
There is more too this issue which is yet to be documented..
Prior studies done by cell phone industry don't cut it(bogus testing
conditions),
haven't been updated for newer tech.(higher frequencies, exotic
modulation).
SM have a fairly high transmit duty cycle, since most of these meters
are set up in
ad-hoc mode, and often relay/forward data between hundreds/thousands of
other customer
meters every few minutes.

Reliability/Safety/Tort.. (Power CO can remotely shutdown/turnon
customer's power without
leaving a trace). It's only a mater of time before any encryption
protocal deployed is
compromised [Just like WEP, WPA. WPA2(have all been cracked)], and other
people will have
this capability.

Fraud/Tort.. Smart meters can/are being programmed @ the manufacturer
to deliberately
over charge a large number customers. It is well known that customers
with PV panels
have been double charged for the energy they supplied to the grid.
Note: This also
affects other non-RE customers to a lessor degree(reactive loads are
being
mismeasured/double charged).

Naperville's bull**** policy of charging 24.95 a month to read a
non-smart meter is
bogus..
Let the homeowner read his/her meter each month, and submit the data on
a web page..
Every year or two.. the power co can confirm it..simple,easy, cheap..

P.S. I also refused the installation of one these Bogus smart meters.
But I did my
homework, and talked to GE's field engineering rep about the
capibilities and ordering
options of the meters being installed.

Thank god.. I don't live in Naperville, or I would be dragiing these
City officials into
court myself.

Put a cell phone 1/4 inch from head and you get a power level depending on
your tower strength. Put it 12 inches away, and it's down 100 times less.
Two feet 400 times less. Four feet 1600 times less.

Not really... The peak field reading drop off is a function of 1/2
wavelength(15.6cm
@900mhz), propogation speed through various mediums, and antenna
configuration(some where
between inverse squared, and inverse cubed.).

Ah, the inverse square law tweaked -- love it.

Tomsic

"Tomsic" wrote:
"T. Keating" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 04:31:40 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:

T. Keating wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:55:51 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Napervilleâ?Ts initiative to
install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying
crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent
away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6519967.story

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

The citizens of Naperville have got several valid points.

Privacy..(yet another added risk..)

RF emissions.. (I've seen 900mhz cell phones cause RF burns.. )
Noteable increases in cell phone linked Brain tumors..
There is more too this issue which is yet to be documented..
Prior studies done by cell phone industry don't cut it(bogus testing
conditions),
haven't been updated for newer tech.(higher frequencies, exotic
modulation).
SM have a fairly high transmit duty cycle, since most of these meters
are set up in
ad-hoc mode, and often relay/forward data between hundreds/thousands of
other customer
meters every few minutes.

Reliability/Safety/Tort.. (Power CO can remotely shutdown/turnon
customer's power without
leaving a trace). It's only a mater of time before any encryption
protocal deployed is
compromised [Just like WEP, WPA. WPA2(have all been cracked)], and other
people will have
this capability.

Fraud/Tort.. Smart meters can/are being programmed @ the manufacturer
to deliberately
over charge a large number customers. It is well known that customers
with PV panels
have been double charged for the energy they supplied to the grid.
Note: This also
affects other non-RE customers to a lessor degree(reactive loads are
being
mismeasured/double charged).

Naperville's bull**** policy of charging 24.95 a month to read a
non-smart meter is
bogus..
Let the homeowner read his/her meter each month, and submit the data on
a web page..
Every year or two.. the power co can confirm it..simple,easy, cheap..

P.S. I also refused the installation of one these Bogus smart meters.
But I did my
homework, and talked to GE's field engineering rep about the
capibilities and ordering
options of the meters being installed.

Thank god.. I don't live in Naperville, or I would be dragiing these
City officials into
court myself.

Put a cell phone 1/4 inch from head and you get a power level depending on
your tower strength. Put it 12 inches away, and it's down 100 times less.
Two feet 400 times less. Four feet 1600 times less.

Not really... The peak field reading drop off is a function of 1/2
wavelength(15.6cm
@900mhz), propogation speed through various mediums, and antenna
configuration(some where
between inverse squared, and inverse cubed.).

Ah, the inverse square law tweaked -- love it.

Tomsic

I got an antenna on my water meter inside the house in my laundry. They
installed that couple years ago. New meter said to sense low flow much
better. How common is this ?

Greg

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:52:18 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

"Tomsic" wrote:
"T. Keating" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 04:31:40 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:

T. Keating wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:55:51 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville?Ts initiative to
install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying
crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent
away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6519967.story

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

The citizens of Naperville have got several valid points.

Privacy..(yet another added risk..)

RF emissions.. (I've seen 900mhz cell phones cause RF burns.. )
Noteable increases in cell phone linked Brain tumors..
There is more too this issue which is yet to be documented..
Prior studies done by cell phone industry don't cut it(bogus testing
conditions),
haven't been updated for newer tech.(higher frequencies, exotic
modulation).
SM have a fairly high transmit duty cycle, since most of these meters
are set up in
ad-hoc mode, and often relay/forward data between hundreds/thousands of
other customer
meters every few minutes.

Reliability/Safety/Tort.. (Power CO can remotely shutdown/turnon
customer's power without
leaving a trace). It's only a mater of time before any encryption
protocal deployed is
compromised [Just like WEP, WPA. WPA2(have all been cracked)], and other
people will have
this capability.

Fraud/Tort.. Smart meters can/are being programmed @ the manufacturer
to deliberately
over charge a large number customers. It is well known that customers
with PV panels
have been double charged for the energy they supplied to the grid.
Note: This also
affects other non-RE customers to a lessor degree(reactive loads are
being
mismeasured/double charged).

Naperville's bull**** policy of charging 24.95 a month to read a
non-smart meter is
bogus..
Let the homeowner read his/her meter each month, and submit the data on
a web page..
Every year or two.. the power co can confirm it..simple,easy, cheap..

P.S. I also refused the installation of one these Bogus smart meters.
But I did my
homework, and talked to GE's field engineering rep about the
capibilities and ordering
options of the meters being installed.

Thank god.. I don't live in Naperville, or I would be dragiing these
City officials into
court myself.

Put a cell phone 1/4 inch from head and you get a power level depending on
your tower strength. Put it 12 inches away, and it's down 100 times less.
Two feet 400 times less. Four feet 1600 times less.

Not really... The peak field reading drop off is a function of 1/2
wavelength(15.6cm
@900mhz), propogation speed through various mediums, and antenna
configuration(some where
between inverse squared, and inverse cubed.).

Ah, the inverse square law tweaked -- love it.

Tomsic

I got an antenna on my water meter inside the house in my laundry. They
installed that couple years ago. New meter said to sense low flow much
better. How common is this ?

In your laundry room? Not common at all. I believe it's unique
(perhaps even very unique). ;-)

A water meter with an antenna? Very common. "Smart meters" are used
nationwide. I had one in my previous house, though I haven't a clue
where it was. Never looked. I probably have one in this house, too,
though I don't care where it is. Paying people to read meters is
expensive.

On Jan 26, 2:51*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:52:18 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:





"Tomsic" wrote:
"T. Keating" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 04:31:40 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:

T. Keating wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:55:51 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville?Ts initiative to
install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying
crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent
away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ille/chi-naper...

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

The citizens of Naperville have got several valid points.

Privacy..(yet another added risk..)

RF emissions.. (I've seen 900mhz cell phones cause RF burns.. )
* Noteable increases in cell phone linked Brain tumors..
* There is more too this issue which is yet to be documented..
* Prior studies done by cell phone industry don't cut it(bogus testing
conditions),
haven't been updated for newer tech.(higher frequencies, exotic
modulation).
* SM have a fairly high transmit duty cycle, since most of these meters
are set up in
ad-hoc mode, and often relay/forward data between hundreds/thousands of
other customer
meters every few minutes.

Reliability/Safety/Tort.. (Power CO can remotely shutdown/turnon
customer's *power without
leaving a trace). It's only a mater of time before any encryption
protocal deployed is
compromised [Just like WEP, WPA. WPA2(have all been cracked)], and other
people will have
this capability.

Fraud/Tort.. *Smart meters can/are being programmed @ the manufacturer
to deliberately
over charge a large number customers. * It is well known that customers
with PV panels
have been double charged for the energy they supplied to the grid.
Note: This also
affects other non-RE customers to a lessor degree(reactive loads are
being
mismeasured/double charged).

Naperville's bull**** policy of charging 24.95 a month to read a
non-smart meter is
bogus..
Let the homeowner read his/her meter each month, and submit the data on
a web page..
Every year or two.. the power co can confirm it..simple,easy, cheap...

P.S. *I also refused the installation of one these Bogus smart meters.
But I did my
homework, and talked to GE's field engineering rep about the
capibilities and ordering
options of the meters being installed.

*Thank god.. I don't live in Naperville, or I would be dragiing these
City officials into
court myself.

Put a cell phone 1/4 inch from head and you get a power level depending on
your tower strength. Put it 12 inches away, and it's down 100 times less.
Two feet 400 times less. Four feet 1600 times less.

Not really... The peak field reading drop off is a function of 1/2
wavelength(15.6cm
@900mhz), propogation speed through various mediums, and antenna
configuration(some where
between inverse squared, and inverse cubed.).

Ah, the inverse square law tweaked -- love it.

Tomsic

I got an antenna on my water meter inside the house in my laundry. They
installed that couple years ago. New meter said to sense low flow much
better. How common is this ?

In your laundry room? *Not common at all. *I believe it's unique
(perhaps even very unique). *;-)

A water meter with an antenna? *Very common. *"Smart meters" are used
nationwide. *I had one in my previous house, though I haven't a clue
where it was. *Never looked. *I probably have one in this house, too,
though I don't care where it is. *Paying people to read meters is
expensive.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Naperville water meters are inside at the entrance point of water
through the basement walls. A cable runs from the water meter to a
small box on the outside of the house that is the actual transmitter.
It is about as big as a package of cigarettes. In our case, the
nearest human activity is 3 or 4 feet away in the basement or outside,
except when I cut the grass and am within 1 foot of the transmitter.
But that is for a few seconds 39 times in a year, so I am not too
worried about rf exposure, especially since I do use a cellphone and
worked on Electromagnetic Compatiblity for Bell Laboratories for about
44 years.

On Jan 26, 4:40*pm, "
wrote:
On Jan 26, 2:51*pm, wrote:





On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:52:18 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

"Tomsic" wrote:
"T. Keating" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 04:31:40 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:

T. Keating wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:55:51 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville?Ts initiative to
install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying
crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent
away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ille/chi-naper...

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

The citizens of Naperville have got several valid points.

Privacy..(yet another added risk..)

RF emissions.. (I've seen 900mhz cell phones cause RF burns.. )
* Noteable increases in cell phone linked Brain tumors..
* There is more too this issue which is yet to be documented..
* Prior studies done by cell phone industry don't cut it(bogus testing
conditions),
haven't been updated for newer tech.(higher frequencies, exotic
modulation).
* SM have a fairly high transmit duty cycle, since most of these meters
are set up in
ad-hoc mode, and often relay/forward data between hundreds/thousands of
other customer
meters every few minutes.

Reliability/Safety/Tort.. (Power CO can remotely shutdown/turnon
customer's *power without
leaving a trace). It's only a mater of time before any encryption
protocal deployed is
compromised [Just like WEP, WPA. WPA2(have all been cracked)], and other
people will have
this capability.

Fraud/Tort.. *Smart meters can/are being programmed @ the manufacturer
to deliberately
over charge a large number customers. * It is well known that customers
with PV panels
have been double charged for the energy they supplied to the grid..
Note: This also
affects other non-RE customers to a lessor degree(reactive loads are
being
mismeasured/double charged).

Naperville's bull**** policy of charging 24.95 a month to read a
non-smart meter is
bogus..
Let the homeowner read his/her meter each month, and submit the data on
a web page..
Every year or two.. the power co can confirm it..simple,easy, cheap..

P.S. *I also refused the installation of one these Bogus smart meters.
But I did my
homework, and talked to GE's field engineering rep about the
capibilities and ordering
options of the meters being installed.

*Thank god.. I don't live in Naperville, or I would be dragiing these
City officials into
court myself.

Put a cell phone 1/4 inch from head and you get a power level depending on
your tower strength. Put it 12 inches away, and it's down 100 times less.
Two feet 400 times less. Four feet 1600 times less.

Not really... The peak field reading drop off is a function of 1/2
wavelength(15.6cm
@900mhz), propogation speed through various mediums, and antenna
configuration(some where
between inverse squared, and inverse cubed.).

Ah, the inverse square law tweaked -- love it.

Tomsic

I got an antenna on my water meter inside the house in my laundry. They
installed that couple years ago. New meter said to sense low flow much
better. How common is this ?

In your laundry room? *Not common at all. *I believe it's unique
(perhaps even very unique). *;-)

A water meter with an antenna? *Very common. *"Smart meters" are used
nationwide. *I had one in my previous house, though I haven't a clue
where it was. *Never looked. *I probably have one in this house, too,
though I don't care where it is. *Paying people to read meters is
expensive.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Naperville water meters are inside at the entrance point of water
through the basement walls. *A cable runs from the water meter to a
small box on the outside of the house that is the actual transmitter.
It is about as big as a package of cigarettes. *In our case, the
nearest human activity is 3 or 4 feet away in the basement or outside,
except when I cut the grass and am within 1 foot of the transmitter.
But that is for a few seconds 39 times in a year, so I am not too
worried about rf exposure, especially since I do use a cellphone and
worked on Electromagnetic Compatiblity for Bell Laboratories for about
44 years.

around here the water company totally elminated meter readers, kinda
sad one was HOT

automating reading saves big bucks

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 13:40:13 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 26, 2:51*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:52:18 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:





"Tomsic" wrote:
"T. Keating" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 04:31:40 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:

T. Keating wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:55:51 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville?Ts initiative to
install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying
crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent
away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ille/chi-naper...

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

The citizens of Naperville have got several valid points.

Privacy..(yet another added risk..)

RF emissions.. (I've seen 900mhz cell phones cause RF burns.. )
* Noteable increases in cell phone linked Brain tumors..
* There is more too this issue which is yet to be documented..
* Prior studies done by cell phone industry don't cut it(bogus testing
conditions),
haven't been updated for newer tech.(higher frequencies, exotic
modulation).
* SM have a fairly high transmit duty cycle, since most of these meters
are set up in
ad-hoc mode, and often relay/forward data between hundreds/thousands of
other customer
meters every few minutes.

Reliability/Safety/Tort.. (Power CO can remotely shutdown/turnon
customer's *power without
leaving a trace). It's only a mater of time before any encryption
protocal deployed is
compromised [Just like WEP, WPA. WPA2(have all been cracked)], and other
people will have
this capability.

Fraud/Tort.. *Smart meters can/are being programmed @ the manufacturer
to deliberately
over charge a large number customers. * It is well known that customers
with PV panels
have been double charged for the energy they supplied to the grid.
Note: This also
affects other non-RE customers to a lessor degree(reactive loads are
being
mismeasured/double charged).

Naperville's bull**** policy of charging 24.95 a month to read a
non-smart meter is
bogus..
Let the homeowner read his/her meter each month, and submit the data on
a web page..
Every year or two.. the power co can confirm it..simple,easy, cheap..

P.S. *I also refused the installation of one these Bogus smart meters.
But I did my
homework, and talked to GE's field engineering rep about the
capibilities and ordering
options of the meters being installed.

*Thank god.. I don't live in Naperville, or I would be dragiing these
City officials into
court myself.

Put a cell phone 1/4 inch from head and you get a power level depending on
your tower strength. Put it 12 inches away, and it's down 100 times less.
Two feet 400 times less. Four feet 1600 times less.

Not really... The peak field reading drop off is a function of 1/2
wavelength(15.6cm
@900mhz), propogation speed through various mediums, and antenna
configuration(some where
between inverse squared, and inverse cubed.).

Ah, the inverse square law tweaked -- love it.

Tomsic

I got an antenna on my water meter inside the house in my laundry. They
installed that couple years ago. New meter said to sense low flow much
better. How common is this ?

In your laundry room? *Not common at all. *I believe it's unique
(perhaps even very unique). *;-)

A water meter with an antenna? *Very common. *"Smart meters" are used
nationwide. *I had one in my previous house, though I haven't a clue
where it was. *Never looked. *I probably have one in this house, too,
though I don't care where it is. *Paying people to read meters is
expensive.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Naperville water meters are inside at the entrance point of water
through the basement walls. A cable runs from the water meter to a
small box on the outside of the house that is the actual transmitter.
It is about as big as a package of cigarettes. In our case, the
nearest human activity is 3 or 4 feet away in the basement or outside,
except when I cut the grass and am within 1 foot of the transmitter.
But that is for a few seconds 39 times in a year, so I am not too
worried about rf exposure, especially since I do use a cellphone and
worked on Electromagnetic Compatiblity for Bell Laboratories for about
44 years.

No basement. The house is built on a slab and the water manifold is
well inside the house (in the laundry on the with the garage between
it and the street). I'm pretty sure the meter is buried in the front
yard so I really don't know where the antenna is but there aren't any
meter readers in the city, either. I'm certainly not worried about
cell phone usage. Given the distance difference (and power levels),
worrying about utility meters is really silly.

On 01-26-2013 07:38, NotMe wrote:
In part true but to what end? Unless the do-bad has a personal hard on for
the home owner what could be accomplished other than turning off the power?
Which depending on how the system was configured could be automatically
switched back on in short order?

"The Chamber continues to see suspicious activity, they say.
A thermostat at a town house the Chamber owns on Capitol Hill
at one point was communicating with an Internet address in China,
they say, and, in March, a printer used by Chamber executives
spontaneously started printing pages with Chinese characters."

Not likely to happen to a homeowner via an electric meter, but still
interesting. From
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204058404577110541568535300.html

--
Wes Groleau

Is it an on-line compliment to call someone a Net Wit ?

On Jan 26, 7:19*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 13:40:13 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 26, 2:51 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:52:18 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

"Tomsic" wrote:
"T. Keating" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 04:31:40 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:

T. Keating wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:55:51 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville ?Ts initiative to
install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying
crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent
away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ille/chi-naper...

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

The citizens of Naperville have got several valid points.

Privacy..(yet another added risk..)

RF emissions.. (I've seen 900mhz cell phones cause RF burns.. )
Noteable increases in cell phone linked Brain tumors..
There is more too this issue which is yet to be documented..
Prior studies done by cell phone industry don't cut it(bogus testing
conditions),
haven't been updated for newer tech.(higher frequencies, exotic
modulation).
SM have a fairly high transmit duty cycle, since most of these meters
are set up in
ad-hoc mode, and often relay/forward data between hundreds/thousands of
other customer
meters every few minutes.

Reliability/Safety/Tort.. (Power CO can remotely shutdown/turnon
customer's power without
leaving a trace). It's only a mater of time before any encryption
protocal deployed is
compromised [Just like WEP, WPA. WPA2(have all been cracked)], and other
people will have
this capability.

Fraud/Tort.. Smart meters can/are being programmed @ the manufacturer
to deliberately
over charge a large number customers. It is well known that customers
with PV panels
have been double charged for the energy they supplied to the grid.
Note: This also
affects other non-RE customers to a lessor degree(reactive loads are
being
mismeasured/double charged).

Naperville's bull**** policy of charging 24.95 a month to read a
non-smart meter is
bogus..
Let the homeowner read his/her meter each month, and submit the data on
a web page..
Every year or two.. the power co can confirm it..simple,easy, cheap..

P.S. I also refused the installation of one these Bogus smart meters.
But I did my
homework, and talked to GE's field engineering rep about the
capibilities and ordering
options of the meters being installed.

Thank god.. I don't live in Naperville, or I would be dragiing these
City officials into
court myself.

Put a cell phone 1/4 inch from head and you get a power level depending on
your tower strength. Put it 12 inches away, and it's down 100 times less.
Two feet 400 times less. Four feet 1600 times less.

Not really... The peak field reading drop off is a function of 1/2
wavelength(15.6cm
@900mhz), propogation speed through various mediums, and antenna
configuration(some where
between inverse squared, and inverse cubed.).

Ah, the inverse square law tweaked -- love it.

Tomsic

I got an antenna on my water meter inside the house in my laundry. They
installed that couple years ago. New meter said to sense low flow much
better. How common is this ?

In your laundry room? Not common at all. I believe it's unique
(perhaps even very unique). ;-)

A water meter with an antenna? Very common. "Smart meters" are used
nationwide. I had one in my previous house, though I haven't a clue
where it was. Never looked. I probably have one in this house, too,
though I don't care where it is. Paying people to read meters is
expensive.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Naperville water meters are inside at the entrance point of water
through the basement walls. *A cable runs from the water meter to a
small box on the outside of the house that is the actual transmitter.
It is about as big as a package of cigarettes. *In our case, the
nearest human activity is 3 or 4 feet away in the basement or outside,
except when I cut the grass and am within 1 foot of the transmitter.
But that is for a few seconds 39 times in a year, so I am not too
worried about rf exposure, especially since I do use a cellphone and
worked on Electromagnetic Compatiblity for Bell Laboratories for about
44 years.

No basement. *The house is built on a slab and the water manifold is
well inside the house (in the laundry on the with the garage between
it and the street). *I'm pretty sure the meter is buried in the front
yard so I really don't know where the antenna is but there aren't any
meter readers in the city, either. *I'm certainly not worried about
cell phone usage. *Given the distance difference (and power levels),
worrying about utility meters is really silly.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here where I live in NJ they have electronic water meters buried at
the
street. The town does drive-bys to read them. It's much faster
as they don't even have to get out of the car or even come to
a stop.

On 01-26-2013 20:11, wrote:
Here where I live in NJ they have electronic water meters buried at
the
street. The town does drive-bys to read them. It's much faster
as they don't even have to get out of the car or even come to
a stop.

Mine's in the basement near the floor. It amazes me that the signal
passes through eight inches of concrete with a rebar grid in it, then
through twenty feet of gravelly clay, four feet of air, and the metal
body of a van, yet is powered by something that never needs its
batteries changed.

While my Sprint WiFi-enabled cell phone couldn't maintain a connection
with thirty inches of air between it and the WiFi router.

--
Wes Groleau

€œStatistics are like bikinis.
What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.€�
€” Aaron Levenstein

Mine's in the basement near the floor. *It amazes me that the signal
passes through eight inches of concrete with a rebar grid in it, then
through twenty feet of gravelly clay, four feet of air, and the metal
body of a van, yet is powered by something that never needs its
batteries changed.

While my Sprint WiFi-enabled cell phone couldn't maintain a connection
with thirty inches of air between it and the WiFi router.


thats the physics of bitrate...

the water meter has to send a few bytes of data and has hours to do
it...

your wifi sends Mbytes of data every second..

the new water meters are interesting, a few months ago we had a note
on our water bill informing us that one of our toilets is
leaking... :-)

Mark

On 01-26-2013 21:08, Mark wrote:
the water meter has to send a few bytes of data and has hours to do

No, it has the ten or twenty seconds that the reader van takes to drive
past.

It has to send the meter ID, the eight or ten digits of the measurement,
plus some handshaking bits.

--
Wes Groleau

Pat's Polemics
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.org/barrett

On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 17:11:39 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Jan 26, 7:19*pm, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 13:40:13 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Jan 26, 2:51 pm, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:52:18 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

"Tomsic" wrote:
"T. Keating" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 04:31:40 +0000 (UTC), gregz wrote:

T. Keating wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:55:51 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville ?Ts initiative to
install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying
crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent
away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ille/chi-naper...

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?

The citizens of Naperville have got several valid points.

Privacy..(yet another added risk..)

RF emissions.. (I've seen 900mhz cell phones cause RF burns.. )
Noteable increases in cell phone linked Brain tumors..
There is more too this issue which is yet to be documented..
Prior studies done by cell phone industry don't cut it(bogus testing
conditions),
haven't been updated for newer tech.(higher frequencies, exotic
modulation).
SM have a fairly high transmit duty cycle, since most of these meters
are set up in
ad-hoc mode, and often relay/forward data between hundreds/thousands of
other customer
meters every few minutes.

Reliability/Safety/Tort.. (Power CO can remotely shutdown/turnon
customer's power without
leaving a trace). It's only a mater of time before any encryption
protocal deployed is
compromised [Just like WEP, WPA. WPA2(have all been cracked)], and other
people will have
this capability.

Fraud/Tort.. Smart meters can/are being programmed @ the manufacturer
to deliberately
over charge a large number customers. It is well known that customers
with PV panels
have been double charged for the energy they supplied to the grid.
Note: This also
affects other non-RE customers to a lessor degree(reactive loads are
being
mismeasured/double charged).

Naperville's bull**** policy of charging 24.95 a month to read a
non-smart meter is
bogus..
Let the homeowner read his/her meter each month, and submit the data on
a web page..
Every year or two.. the power co can confirm it..simple,easy, cheap..

P.S. I also refused the installation of one these Bogus smart meters.
But I did my
homework, and talked to GE's field engineering rep about the
capibilities and ordering
options of the meters being installed.

Thank god.. I don't live in Naperville, or I would be dragiing these
City officials into
court myself.

Put a cell phone 1/4 inch from head and you get a power level depending on
your tower strength. Put it 12 inches away, and it's down 100 times less.
Two feet 400 times less. Four feet 1600 times less.

Not really... The peak field reading drop off is a function of 1/2
wavelength(15.6cm
@900mhz), propogation speed through various mediums, and antenna
configuration(some where
between inverse squared, and inverse cubed.).

Ah, the inverse square law tweaked -- love it.

Tomsic

I got an antenna on my water meter inside the house in my laundry. They
installed that couple years ago. New meter said to sense low flow much
better. How common is this ?

In your laundry room? Not common at all. I believe it's unique
(perhaps even very unique). ;-)

A water meter with an antenna? Very common. "Smart meters" are used
nationwide. I had one in my previous house, though I haven't a clue
where it was. Never looked. I probably have one in this house, too,
though I don't care where it is. Paying people to read meters is
expensive.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The Naperville water meters are inside at the entrance point of water
through the basement walls. *A cable runs from the water meter to a
small box on the outside of the house that is the actual transmitter.
It is about as big as a package of cigarettes. *In our case, the
nearest human activity is 3 or 4 feet away in the basement or outside,
except when I cut the grass and am within 1 foot of the transmitter.
But that is for a few seconds 39 times in a year, so I am not too
worried about rf exposure, especially since I do use a cellphone and
worked on Electromagnetic Compatiblity for Bell Laboratories for about
44 years.

No basement. *The house is built on a slab and the water manifold is
well inside the house (in the laundry on the with the garage between
it and the street). *I'm pretty sure the meter is buried in the front
yard so I really don't know where the antenna is but there aren't any
meter readers in the city, either. *I'm certainly not worried about
cell phone usage. *Given the distance difference (and power levels),
worrying about utility meters is really silly.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here where I live in NJ they have electronic water meters buried at
the
street. The town does drive-bys to read them. It's much faster
as they don't even have to get out of the car or even come to
a stop.

I'll bet that's what they're doing. They said they had a "smart grid"
but I don't think the infrastructure was in place yet. They were
adding Internet service to their "smart grid" but that's a couple of
years off. Meanwhile I'll bet they're doing drive-bys. I'm pretty
sure the meter is in a pit in the front yard. The irrigation system
is in that general direction, too.

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 19:33:45 -0500, wrote:

Meanwhile I'll bet they're doing drive-bys. I'm pretty
sure the meter is in a pit in the front yard. The irrigation system
is in that general direction, too.

My house is 14 now. The power, gas, and water is all now read with
drive-by's.

Three people with less responsibility; for reading each meter.

Yet, I have not suffered from visual images of bags of otters.

On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 00:34:04 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 19:33:45 -0500, wrote:

Meanwhile I'll bet they're doing drive-bys. I'm pretty
sure the meter is in a pit in the front yard. The irrigation system
is in that general direction, too.

My house is 14 now. The power, gas, and water is all now read with
drive-by's.

Three people with less responsibility; for reading each meter.

I hear ya'. The water, sewer, garbage, and electricity are all run by
the city but there are two separate entities (water/sewer,
electric/garbage) doing the work. They want to use one grid for
collection but it'll probably be an Abbot and Costello movie in the
making with them tripping over each other (and the new Internet
service).

Yet, I have not suffered from visual images of bags of otters.

I can't wait, though the city is fairly well run, otherwise.

"HeyBub" ) writes:

"[NAPERVILLE, IL] Two vocal opponents of Naperville’s initiative to install
wireless electric meters on homes were arrested this afternoon after
interfering with the installation process... Police are accompanying crews
this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away
installers."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,6519967.story

Who will protect our precious bodily fluids?




I heard a rumour about the Texas woman who shot a power meter with
a gun. The rumour is she said this to the judge.

"Sheeit your Honour... them smart meters ain't smart... ah pointed
my gun at mine and it didn't duck!"