In article ,
"J.G." wrote:

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 17:40:04 -0700, Smitty Two wrote:

FWIW, printing on a laser printer is MUCH less expensive, per page, than
an inkjet, when buying the OEM supplies.

I have no experience with color laser printers.
Does that price comparison hold for color lasers also?

Yep. I've got a Dell inkjet AIO at work. I use it a lot, and it's
expensive to feed. Something like $130 for 3 black and one color
cartridge, ordered together.

OTOH, I have a Dell color laser at home, and although new cartridges are
expensive, I have yet to buy any. It's a cost-per-page advantage of 5 or
10 to 1.


BTW ...

All I know is that refilling my B&W 92A (aka C092A) toner cartridge with
250 grams of black toner costs about $5 plus tax/shipping.
An empty used-once HP 92A/C092A cartridge costs another $5 (plus
tax/shipping).

A new HP 92A/C092A cartridge is about $34 (plus tax/shipping) on Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/HP-LaserJet-Ca.../dp/B00000JF58

Note: I see a new non-HP C092A-compatible cartridge for as low as $12,
but the reviews of this cheap alternative are horrific:
http://www.amazon.com/Compatible-C40.../dp/B00111WM62

"J.G." writes:

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 18:19:30 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

As far as color ink jet goe, HP will be the last one to touch. I am
happy with Canon and Brother is OK too. All ink jet, laser printers in
my family is Canon.

Can you easily refill the Canon & Brother printer ink?

I was an 'expert' on refilling the HP printer ink ... but alas ... it's
STILL a hugely frustrating process, what with the drop-dead dates and all.

Do the Canon & Brother ink tanks have time stamps?

Canon inks are simple to refill, just need a jig (comes with some of
the refill sets) to punch out the plastic ball in the hole, or else
drill a new one. The refill bottles usually have a thin nib that fits
in the hole, almost no mess. Sealing is of course important
afterwares, either with a rubber piece made for the job, but I am just
as happy with scotch tape, as long as there the seal is tight it works
fine.

The chipped inks (you canot get unchipped one anymore as far as I
know) require a chip clearer (USB-attached to my PC) to reset the
counter on the cartridge, or else the printer will register it as
empty.

I don't know about the latest cartridges on the MG series PIXMA/PIXUS
models.

I haven't bought new cartridges for several years now, and have
refilled happily the following, to give an idea of the range over a
period of time: SELPHY D700, MP450, MP710 (similar to MP700), MP800,
MP810, MP960.
--
Gernot Hassenpflug

"J.G." wrote in message
...
I was an 'expert' on refilling the HP printer ink ... but alas ... it's
STILL a hugely frustrating process, what with the drop-dead dates and all.


What is this "HP drop dead date" thing ?

On 08/20/12 02:29 am, Atila Iskander wrote:

I was an 'expert' on refilling the HP printer ink ... but alas ... it's
STILL a hugely frustrating process, what with the drop-dead dates and
all.

What is this "HP drop dead date" thing ?

It may not apply to all HP inkjet printers, but it certainly applies to
our OfficeJet 7135 multifunction machine (printer, copier, scanner, fax)
from about nine years ago. Its ink cartridges (#14) have an expiry date:
they will stop working 18 months from the date printed on the package or
from the date the cartridge is installed, whichever comes first. Of
course, this only works if one sets the date in the machine; we leave
ours unplugged until we actually want to use it, and the date remains on
Jan 1 00 (I think that's what it is). ISTR that when I have connected
the machine to a computer to scan or print something (we use it almost
exclusively as a copier now), it reads the date from the computer and
updates its internal date setting; then it is necessary to stick a
credit card or some other thin, stiff object between the battery and the
contact so that the stored information is lost.

Even if we want to print or copy only in black and white, we still have
to have non-expired color cartridges in place.

A former hotshot with HP's printer division (distantly related by
marriage) says, "It's a wonderful system: we sell them a printer and
then keep them coming back for the ink."

I don't think I have ever seen after-market #14 cartridges, and
OfficeMax says that is a cartridge they cannot refill either.

I think there my be DIY kits for refilling the #14.

Perce

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 01:29:59 -0500, "Atila Iskander"
wrote:


"J.G." wrote in message
...
I was an 'expert' on refilling the HP printer ink ... but alas ... it's
STILL a hugely frustrating process, what with the drop-dead dates and all.


What is this "HP drop dead date" thing ?


"...All Hewlett Packard ink cartridges have microchips installed that
tell the printer when the cartridge expires. HP cartridges typically
expire 2 years from their date of manufacture. After this date, the
printer will no longer recognize the cartridge. While you can't
permanently disable the timers in these cartridges, you can reset them
each time you refill a cartridge, or want to use it past its
expiration date. A universal method of resetting these timers is to
cycle cartridges."

Read mo How to Disable the Timers for HP Ink | eHow.com
http://www.ehow.com/how_7460750_disable-timers-hp-ink.html#ixzz24660Mqk5
--

John wrote:
Contrast all that mess with the inkjets with the trivial refill
of the B&W toner on the laserjet and I'm a believer in laser
printers! Hence the quest for a refillable color laser printer.


So again, when dealing with inkjets get the one with the cheapest (in
cost) ink, Kodak by a mile.

OR, better yet. just never deal with inkjets. Period. The OP has it right.

On 8/18/2012 3:39 PM, J.G. wrote:

Hence my question:

Q: Do you know of a color laser printer that can be as easily refilled
from non-OEM sources like the B&W laserjets can?

I would look by going the opposite direction. Look at Monoprice.com for
the after-market cartridges and see which printers they work with. Or
look at inkowl.com (or any other refill vendor) to see what they sell.

However, what I've done at my house has worked well. We have both a mono
laser and a color inkjet. The default printer is the mono laser. Almost
everything is printed on that printer (an HP Laserjet 5MP that I got for
free on freecycle, which is connected to a wireless print server). If
color is needed, and it isn't needed that often, the user has to
explicitly select the color ink jet for that print job. I've named the
printers "cheap black and white laser" and "expensive color." The inkjet
(Officejet 7210) uses cartridges that can be refilled, and that are sold
inexpensively at Monoprice if a new one is needed. The HP97 sells for
$10, or it can be refilled at Costco for less than $10.

I think you'll find that the cost of refilling color laser cartridges is
high.

On 8/18/2012 3:39 PM, J.G. wrote:

I never again wish to go through the expensive ink-refill sheer hell of
the typical HP inkjet ... so the 'only' color printer for me is one which
I can easily and inexpensively refill, at home, from non-OEM sources.

It's not hell at all. If it's not too new, you can buy third-party
cartridges fairly cheaply. I.e. right now (because of a 20% off sale), I
can buy HP97 color cartridges for my Officejet for $8 each at Monoprice.com.

The key is to choose an inkjet carefully. First, avoid at all costs any
inkjet printer where you the print head and the ink cartridge are not
one unit. It seems counter-intuitive, but the biggest problem with ink
jet printers is when the print head goes bad. For all the HP bashing,
the one big advantage of HP ink jet printers is that you get a new (or
at least tested) print head with each ink cartridge.

1. Stay away from newer ink jet printers that make it very difficult to
use after-market or refilled cartridges.

2. Avoid ink jet printers where the print head is separate from the ink
cartridge.

3. Set up the printers in your house so that the default printer is the
monochrome laser.

4. Try to explain to your family that they should only select the color
printer for things that absolutely need to be printed in color.

5. Show your family how to send photos to Walgreen's, CVS, or Costco for
printing.

On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 13:09:01 -0400, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Kodak markets as the anti-HP. Ink is ridiculously cheap

Now that's nice to know!

HP inks are crazily priced. I can't believe I fell for the cheap &
ubiquitous HPs for so many years!

I'm fine with my HP laser but my 'next' color printer will NOT be HP for
sure!

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 10:56:16 +0900, Gernot Hassenpflug wrote:

The chipped inks (you canot get unchipped one anymore as far as I know)
require a chip clearer (USB-attached to my PC) to reset the counter on
the cartridge, or else the printer will register it as empty.

Are you saying that the Canon inks that you buy are now chipped?

If so, that's a pain.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 07:39:04 -0700, Oren wrote:

What is this "HP drop dead date" thing ?
"...All Hewlett Packard ink cartridges have microchips installed that
tell the printer when the cartridge expires.

In addition to what Oren and Percival said, here's what HP says (verbatim):
"What is ink expiration?
Basically ink expiration is a built-in date on which certain
HP ink cartridges will stop working."

See:
What is ink expiration and will it make my HP ink supplies stop working?
http://tinyurl.com/cz6jp9g
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/d...name=c01764161

See also:
HPs expiring ink cartridges EXPOSED
http://advantage77.com/blog/2012/01/...idges-exposed/

Which says (verbatim):
"Some cartridges cease to function 12 months after the €œWarranty Ends€� date,
or 18 months after the ink cartridge is installed, whichever comes first."

See also this USENET thread by Orak Listalavostok on 7/7/2004:
HP OfficeJet 145 Black/color ink old. 8 days to expire. Printing will stop.

And, this canonical HP printer ink expiry date thread:
Various HP printer ink expiration dates analyzed
which was posted on comp.sys.hp.hardware on Sep 17, 2004.

Note: I don't know how to quote NNTP posts so someone can help me here,
especially since the HP ink respiry research in those two threads is
nothing short of phenomenal!

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 19:37:30 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 13:09:01 -0400, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Kodak markets as the anti-HP. Ink is ridiculously cheap

Now that's nice to know!

HP inks are crazily priced. I can't believe I fell for the cheap &
ubiquitous HPs for so many years!

I'm fine with my HP laser but my 'next' color printer will NOT be HP for
sure!

(Kodak) -- "It's not "cheap ink" it's premium ink made affordable."

I understand their ink has more color pigments, thus a better quality
ink. I like our Kodak ESP 9 printer... it saves much more money.

I could not find a print head local or online to replace mine. Called
New Deli (India) and was told the printer was out of warranty. Then
they said I was a "loyal customer" and said they would send a printer
head for free. It shipped from Ohio in 10 days.
--

On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 13:43:59 -0400, Quiet Man wrote:

I have a HP CP2025dn with four separate toner carts and I refill it
regularly with toner from http://www.tonerrefillkits.com/. Works
great. Cost of printer $468. Cost of spare set of carts $160 cost of
refill for a cart $35 or less. Refills last thousands of pages,
quality is good enough for photos, but not for professional
photographic work.

This is a fantastic start!

What I like about it is:
a) It's a recommendation of a color laser printer which isn't too expensive
b) Refills are proven! And each color can be separately refilled!
c) It works well enough!

Thanks ... this becomes the leading suggestion for what color
laser printer can easily & cheaply be refilled from home!

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 10:50:34 -0700, SMS wrote:

I never again wish to go through the expensive ink-refill sheer hell of
the typical HP inkjet ...

It's not hell at all.

At first I thought you were clueless ... until I read on!

The key is to choose an inkjet carefully.

Indeed! All the ones I had were sheer hell to refill
(and, at the time, I knew what I was doing - yet they were STILL
sheer hell!)

First, avoid at all costs any inkjet printer where you the print
head and the ink cartridge are not one unit.

Mine were all separate 'tanks' and 'print heads'.

It seems counter-intuitive

It does.

but the biggest problem with ink
jet printers is when the print head goes bad.

I had two fail on me.

For all the HP bashing,
the one big advantage of HP ink jet printers is that you get a new (or
at least tested) print head with each ink cartridge.

All the HP inkjet printers I had, had separate print heads.
My fault! Now I know.

1. Stay away from newer ink jet printers that make it very difficult to
use after-market or refilled cartridges.

It's getting harder and harder to find unchipped cartridges.
See details he
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/10...dates-analyzed

2. Avoid ink jet printers where the print head is separate from the ink
cartridge.

Very interesting observation!

3. Set up the printers in your house so that the default printer is the
monochrome laser.

Makes sense to use the B&W most of the time.

4. Try to explain to your family that they should only select the color
printer for things that absolutely need to be printed in color.

Good advice!

5. Show your family how to send photos to Walgreen's, CVS, or Costco for
printing.

Makes the most sense of all!
Now to convince them of that!

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 19:55:34 +0000, J.G. wrote:

What is ink expiration and will it make my HP ink supplies stop working?
http://tinyurl.com/cz6jp9g
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?
lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&docname=c01764161

Here's what makes it all so confusing.

This is what HP says (verbatim) at that site above:

What is the ink expiration date?
It's important to note that the ink expiration date is NOT the date
stamped or printed on the ink supply.

Rather, the printed date on all HP inkjet supplies is the €œWarranty ends€�
date.

To determine the ink expiration date on a particular supply, the consumer
needs to consider three factors: the ink supply, its warranty date, and
the date on which the cartridge is initially installed.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 19:55:34 +0000, J.G. wrote:

What is ink expiration and will it make my HP ink supplies stop working?
http://tinyurl.com/cz6jp9g

According to that official HP web site ...

This is the list of printers whose chipped ink will expire even if it is
full and has never been opened! (which is what happened to me!):

These won't take expired ink even if its full & unopened:
HP Officejet Pro K850
HP digital Copier Printer 610
HP Business Inkjet - all
HP Officejet D series,
HP Officejet 7100 series,
HP Officejet 9100 series
HP Professional series (2000 and 2500)
HP Color Inkjet cp1160 and cp1700

This is the list of printers where heroics can overried the expiry date:
HP Officejet Pro 8000, 8500, K550, K5300, K5400, K8600, L7400, L7500,
L7600, and L7700 Series
HP Photosmart 3110, 3210, 3310, 8250, C5180, C6180, C6200, C7180, C7200,
C8100, D6160, D7160, D7200, D7360, and D7400 series, HP Photosmart Pro
B8800, B9180
HP Designjet 510, 4000, 4500, 4X20, 5100, 5500, 8000, 9000, 10000,
L25500, L26500, L28500, L65500, LX600, LX800, LX820, LX850, T610, T620,
T770, T790, T1100, T1120, T1200, T1300, T2300 eMFP, T7100, Z2100, Z3100,
Z3200, Z5200ps, Z6100, Z6200 series, HP CM8050 and CM8060

On Monday, August 20, 2012 3:58:31 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
(Kodak) -- "It's not "cheap ink" it's premium ink made affordable."

First off, Kodak is in the throes of bankruptcy right now and is not likely to emerge as an independent company. More likely the various divisions will be sold off to the highest bidders, with the printer division likely going to HP who will immediately halt production of the "redundant" (read: competitive) products.

Second off, I have not heard a single good thing about Kodak printers from anyone outside this group here today.

The reason HP inks are so expensive is because you're getting a new printhead as part of the ink cartridge on most of their models. Kodak's are cheap because the printhead is part of the printer. You might get 2-3 cartridges worth of ink through a printhead before output quality starts to degrade noticeably on the Kodaks.

HP does have a few models now with separately replaceable printheads. I have a 7000 series wide carriage printer with the separate head and a full set of double-life inks is only about $50. My previous HP's black cartridge was easily $50 by itself.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 10:50:34 -0700, SMS wrote:

It's not hell at all.
The key is to choose an inkjet carefully.

Hi SMS,

At first I thought you were "clueless in San Jose",
but then I read your wonderful post, and I realized you
were right on the money!

One thing to add to your "choose your printer carefully" advice.

This HP web site tells us that there is no way to override the
drop dead date in "some" HP printers.

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/d...name=c01764161

Trust me, I've tried (on the d135).
It just can not be done.
Forget CMOS resets.
Forget motherboard shorts.
Forget changing the printer time.
Forget turning off the ink-drop counting mechanisms.
Even forget the otherwise venerable trick of cycling of three cartridges.

The only solution (for those printers) is to NEVER BUY THOSE PRINTERS!
Otherwise, attempting to re-fill the chipped ink will be sheer hell.

So that others benefit, we should add that list of printers to avoid
in order to eliminate hell in your otherwise wonderful instructions!
....
HP Officejet Pro K850
HP digital Copier Printer 610
HP Business Inkjet (all HP business inkjet printers!)
HP Officejet D series (all)
HP Officejet d125xi,
HP Officejet d135,
HP Officejet d145,
HP Officejet d155xi,
HP Officejet 7110,
HP Officejet 7130,
HP Officejet 7140xi,
HP Fax 610
HP Officejet 7100 series (all)
HP Officejet 9100 series (all)
HP Professional series 2000 (all)
HP Professional series 2500 (all)
HP Color Inkjet cp1160
HP Color Inkjet cp1700
....
HP Officejet Pro 8000,
HP Officejet Pro 8500,
HP Officejet Pro K550,
HP Officejet Pro K5300,
HP Officejet Pro K5400,
HP Officejet Pro K8600,
HP Officejet Pro L7400,
HP Officejet Pro L7500,
HP Officejet Pro L7600,
HP Officejet Pro L7700 Series
HP Photosmart 3110,
HP Photosmart 3210,
HP Photosmart 3310,
HP Photosmart 8250,
HP Photosmart C5180,
HP Photosmart C6180,
HP Photosmart C6200,
HP Photosmart C7180,
HP Photosmart C7200,
HP Photosmart C8100,
HP Photosmart D6160,
HP Photosmart D7160,
HP Photosmart D7200,
HP Photosmart D7360,
HP Photosmart D7400 series,
HP Photosmart Pro B8800,
HP Photosmart Pro B9180
HP Designjet 510,
HP Designjet 4000,
HP Designjet 4500,
HP Designjet 4X20,
HP Designjet 5100,
HP Designjet 5500,
HP Designjet 8000,
HP Designjet 9000,
HP Designjet 10000,
HP Designjet L25500,
HP Designjet L26500,
HP Designjet L28500,
HP Designjet L65500,
HP Designjet LX600,
HP Designjet LX800,
HP Designjet LX820,
HP Designjet LX850,
HP Designjet T610,
HP Designjet T620,
HP Designjet T770,
HP Designjet T790,
HP Designjet T1100,
HP Designjet T1120,
HP Designjet T1200,
HP Designjet T1300,
HP Designjet T2300 eMFP,
HP Designjet T7100,
HP Designjet Z2100,
HP Designjet Z3100,
HP Designjet Z3200,
HP Designjet Z5200ps,
HP Designjet Z6100,
HP Designjet Z6200 series,
HP CM8050
HP CM8060

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:25:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, August 20, 2012 3:58:31 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
(Kodak) -- "It's not "cheap ink" it's premium ink made affordable."

First off, Kodak is in the throes of bankruptcy right now and is not likely to emerge as an independent company. More likely the various divisions will be sold off to the highest bidders, with the printer division likely going to HP who will immediately halt production of the "redundant" (read: competitive) products.


Over the film. Who said HP will get the printer division.

Second off, I have not heard a single good thing about Kodak printers from anyone outside this group here today.

Wow.


The reason HP inks are so expensive is because you're getting a new printhead as part of the ink cartridge on most of their models. Kodak's are cheap because the printhead is part of the printer. You might get 2-3 cartridges worth of ink through a printhead before output quality starts to degrade noticeably on the Kodaks.


Mine did not degrade. The print head lasted at least 3 years, before
it needed to be replaced.

HP does have a few models now with separately replaceable printheads. I have a 7000 series wide carriage printer with the separate head and a full set of double-life inks is only about $50. My previous HP's black cartridge was easily $50 by itself.

Screw HP.
--

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 18:46:20 -0700, Oren wrote:

I hate when that happens. I guess the windows registry reads embedded
(EPROM) info from them and stores it the registry. Hence the hack to
get around it. I'm not sure, but there is a hack for the problem.

There is a LOT of confusion out there.

Some ink chips 'can' be overridden with 'hacks'.

Some just plain can not!

The trick is to never buy the printers that can not.
And to avoid the printers which require the hacks.

I, for one, love my B&W laser printer which lasts far longer
on one fill than any ink printer ever did for me, and which
can be easily refilled with 250 grams of toner for about $5.

The quest is to find a color laser printer which is as
easy yet still somewhat cheaply refilled!

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 19:55:34 +0000, J.G. wrote:

What is ink expiration and will it make my HP ink supplies stop working?
http://tinyurl.com/cz6jp9g

According to that official HP web site:
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/d...name=c01764161

For these printers:
Color Inkjet cp1160 series,
Officejet d125xi
Officejet d135
Officejet d145
Officejet d155xi
Officejet 7110
Officejet 7130,
Officejet 7140xi
HP Fax 610

The drop-dead expiry date for the chipped ink is as follows:

12 months after the €œWarranty Ends€� date, or 18 months after the ink cartridge is installed, whichever comes first.

There is no known way around this particular drop-dead date!

Note: There are 'other' printers where you 'can' get around the drop-dead date ... hence the confusion out there.

On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 14:03:33 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
wrote:

On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 12:16:07 +0000, J.G. wrote:

Of course, if I go 'color', I'm assuming the refilling of the color
laser printer will be as simple as the B&W is currently.

I just realized that the color laser printer 'might' not work for pictures at home!

Here are some articles I'm reading, to determine if it can:
Laser Vs. Inkjet Printer
(http://www.buzzle.com/articles/laser...t-printer.html)

Should Your Office Buy an Inkjet or a Laser Printer?
(http://www.pcworld.com/businesscente...printe r.html)

Laser vs. inkjet printers: which is better?
(http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/articl...which_better_/)

Inkjet Versus Laser Printers
(http://www.smallbusinesscomputing.co...r-Printers.htm)




Yeah, when I was working I went thru several color laser printers with
the idea they would be able to do color photos better then the
"expensive" inkjet process. After wondering why the printed photos
weren't all that good I came across similar articles to your links.
Based on my past experience, if all you want to print in the way of
color photos is stuff to place in a work file to document whatever
then the color lasers are fine for that. Or if you just want to be
able to quickly and easily print color flyers with action photos for
your Rock Band's upcoming concert the lasers are great for that. But
if you want to print a really nice copy of Antie Ems's 101 birthday
party and see the sparkle in her gray hair you won't be happy with
what you get from the laser color unless you buy a very expensive one
and use the proper glossy paper. At that point they have lost any
advantage over inkjet cost.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:25:19 -0700, dennisgauge wrote:

The reason HP inks are so expensive is because you're
getting a new printhead as part of the ink cartridge
on most of their models.
Kodak's are cheap because the printhead is part of the
printer.

I think the record shows the reason HP inks are so expensive
is simply because HP prices its ink so expensive. Period.

Even for the ink tanks which have no print heads involved
(e.g., for the ubiquitous HP d135 #14 ink tank I had).

It's all part of their sales/marketing strategy.
They clearly make more money on ink than on printers.

For example, I forget the exact details, but I had asked
a printer friend of mine what it would cost him to provide
me as much ink as is in the #14 ink tank - and he even
gave me the ink, gratis - saying it was only worth pennies.

Of course he buys quality ink in bulk - but prior to that
I bought, from Costco, at retail prices, the $20 or $30
(I forget the exact price) refill kit also.

This kit refilled the HP d135 ink tanks many times over.

Point is, the ONLY reason HP ink costs as much as it does
is that it is an integral part of their sales strategy.

I, for one, will NEVER buy another HP ink-based printer
again, the rest of my life for this very reason.

But none of this helps us get to the best color laser
printer that can be easily refilled!

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 21:51:52 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:



J.G. wrote:
Q: What color laser printer can cheaply be refilled with non-OEM toner?

For years, I bought the Costco HP inkjets which required ink priced at
about 100 times what ink 'should' cost. I even tried the Costco $20 ink
refills, but of course, HP makes refills almost impossible, on purpose,
so I simply vowed to never buy another HP ink-based printer.

I bought an HP B&W laser printer, and have happily and successfully been
buying $5 guaranteed-used-once C92 cartridges and refilling the C4092A
black toner over the years at home, for about $5 for 250 grams of toner
as shown below (after melting a circular hole in the toner cartridge):
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/9007348.jpeg

The problem is my kid wants a color printer and the wife concurs.

I never again wish to go through the expensive ink-refill sheer hell of
the typical HP inkjet ... so the 'only' color printer for me is one which
I can easily and inexpensively refill, at home, from non-OEM sources.

Hence my question:

Q: Do you know of a color laser printer that can be as easily refilled
from non-OEM sources like the B&W laserjets can?

Hi,
If your decision is to get a color laser AIO, Brother is not bad. set of
4 cart. on eBay goes for ~80.00 including S&H. Another thing to consider
is power consumption when running. Some use more than a KW.
(generates some heat) I believe Brother uses about 600W or so.

All I've heard and seen about Brother is that they are always breaking
down - lots of horror stories. Maybe that's changed in the past
couple years.

Another thing to consider with lasers is startup time. With an
inkjet, there is usually only a few seconds startup time from when the
print job hits the printer. On lasers there can be a delay while the
fusing drum warms up, some printers have a fairly long delay.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 20:34:40 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 10:50:34 -0700, SMS wrote:

It's not hell at all.
The key is to choose an inkjet carefully.

Hi SMS,

At first I thought you were "clueless in San Jose",
but then I read your wonderful post, and I realized you
were right on the money!

One thing to add to your "choose your printer carefully" advice.

This HP web site tells us that there is no way to override the
drop dead date in "some" HP printers.

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/d...name=c01764161

Trust me, I've tried (on the d135).
It just can not be done.
Forget CMOS resets.
Forget motherboard shorts.
Forget changing the printer time.
Forget turning off the ink-drop counting mechanisms.
Even forget the otherwise venerable trick of cycling of three cartridges.

The only solution (for those printers) is to NEVER BUY THOSE PRINTERS!
Otherwise, attempting to re-fill the chipped ink will be sheer hell.

So that others benefit, we should add that list of printers to avoid
in order to eliminate hell in your otherwise wonderful instructions!
...
HP Officejet Pro K850
HP digital Copier Printer 610
HP Business Inkjet (all HP business inkjet printers!)
HP Officejet D series (all)
HP Officejet d125xi,
HP Officejet d135,
HP Officejet d145,
HP Officejet d155xi,
HP Officejet 7110,
HP Officejet 7130,
HP Officejet 7140xi,
HP Fax 610
HP Officejet 7100 series (all)
HP Officejet 9100 series (all)
HP Professional series 2000 (all)
HP Professional series 2500 (all)
HP Color Inkjet cp1160
HP Color Inkjet cp1700
...
HP Officejet Pro 8000,
HP Officejet Pro 8500,
HP Officejet Pro K550,
HP Officejet Pro K5300,
HP Officejet Pro K5400,
HP Officejet Pro K8600,
HP Officejet Pro L7400,
HP Officejet Pro L7500,
HP Officejet Pro L7600,
HP Officejet Pro L7700 Series
HP Photosmart 3110,
HP Photosmart 3210,
HP Photosmart 3310,
HP Photosmart 8250,
HP Photosmart C5180,
HP Photosmart C6180,
HP Photosmart C6200,
HP Photosmart C7180,
HP Photosmart C7200,
HP Photosmart C8100,
HP Photosmart D6160,
HP Photosmart D7160,
HP Photosmart D7200,
HP Photosmart D7360,
HP Photosmart D7400 series,
HP Photosmart Pro B8800,
HP Photosmart Pro B9180
HP Designjet 510,
HP Designjet 4000,
HP Designjet 4500,
HP Designjet 4X20,
HP Designjet 5100,
HP Designjet 5500,
HP Designjet 8000,
HP Designjet 9000,
HP Designjet 10000,
HP Designjet L25500,
HP Designjet L26500,
HP Designjet L28500,
HP Designjet L65500,
HP Designjet LX600,
HP Designjet LX800,
HP Designjet LX820,
HP Designjet LX850,
HP Designjet T610,
HP Designjet T620,
HP Designjet T770,
HP Designjet T790,
HP Designjet T1100,
HP Designjet T1120,
HP Designjet T1200,
HP Designjet T1300,
HP Designjet T2300 eMFP,
HP Designjet T7100,
HP Designjet Z2100,
HP Designjet Z3100,
HP Designjet Z3200,
HP Designjet Z5200ps,
HP Designjet Z6100,
HP Designjet Z6200 series,
HP CM8050
HP CM8060


I've got an HP7280 and it will accept "out of date" ink carts, you
just have to agree to the printers admonition that using them might
void the warranty. I've had one ink cart refilled at Costco and they
appeared to have replaced the chip on it. This is for the 02 series
of ink carts. Print head is separate.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:08:43 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Yeah, when I was working I went thru several color laser printers with
the idea they would be able to do color photos better then the
"expensive" inkjet process.

I'm slowly coming to the following hard-won realization,
much to my chagrin, regarding printing color photos at home:

0. B&W laser writers (such as my HP 3200m) are trivial & cheap to refill
1. Most color laser writers are also trivial & cheap to refill.
2. However, color laser writers stink at printing pictures at home!

Given that, we are FORCED to look at ink-based printers:
0. IMHO, all ink-based printers from HP are to be avoided at all costs!
1. Kodak/Canon/Dell ink-based printers 'may' be a viable alternative.
2. The key is to buy the printer based on the ease of "replacing" the ink!

Drat! Color lasers, which are the subject of this task, are slowly
dropping off the radar screen ... and the dreaded ink-based printers
are rising up, again.

Why is finding a decent printer to print photos at home at a decent
price such a miserable process?

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:11:47 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Another thing to consider with lasers is startup time.

I print maybe one page every two or three days, on average.

I generally leave the printer on all the time.

However, I 'could' just as well turn it off, for all it has
been used.

But, when I had the HP d135 AIO printer, I remember admonishments
to keep it running all the time - otherwise it wasted ink (I was
told).

And, we all know, HP ink costs more than it's weight in gold.

So, what's the general consensus for leaving printers on
which are only used sporadically a few days of the week?

Does that play a role in our printer selection decision?

J.G. wrote:

Why is finding a decent printer to print photos at home at a decent
price such a miserable process?


Gosh to you remember what it cost to bring in a roll of film for
processing? You had to drive both ways, and maybe make a phone call to
see if it was ready? And you had to wait a few weeks to see pictures of
your thumb! The good old days, huh? : )

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:10:38 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
wrote:

Point is, the ONLY reason HP ink costs as much as it does
is that it is an integral part of their sales strategy.

....and or they have a government contract. Don't know now, but their
corporate network printers were ~ $25,000.

Toner locally was ~ $100.00 a pop. I _had_ to buy two printers (50K)
through the contract. This meant $200 ever so often for local priced
toner.
--

On 8/20/2012 6:10 PM, J.G. wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:25:19 -0700, dennisgauge wrote:

The reason HP inks are so expensive is because you're
getting a new printhead as part of the ink cartridge
on most of their models.
Kodak's are cheap because the printhead is part of the
printer.

I think the record shows the reason HP inks are so expensive
is simply because HP prices its ink so expensive. Period.

Even for the ink tanks which have no print heads involved
(e.g., for the ubiquitous HP d135 #14 ink tank I had).

It's all part of their sales/marketing strategy.
They clearly make more money on ink than on printers.

For example, I forget the exact details, but I had asked
a printer friend of mine what it would cost him to provide
me as much ink as is in the #14 ink tank - and he even
gave me the ink, gratis - saying it was only worth pennies.

Of course he buys quality ink in bulk - but prior to that
I bought, from Costco, at retail prices, the $20 or $30
(I forget the exact price) refill kit also.

This kit refilled the HP d135 ink tanks many times over.

Point is, the ONLY reason HP ink costs as much as it does
is that it is an integral part of their sales strategy.

I, for one, will NEVER buy another HP ink-based printer
again, the rest of my life for this very reason.

But none of this helps us get to the best color laser
printer that can be easily refilled!


I reviewed a printer ink recipe once for an importer not HP. It was
only b&w but ingredients were cheap. Probably about one cents worth
would fill a cartridge. HP inks may use more expensive ingredients but
your still talking of only a few cents more at most.

I don't know what it costs to make the print heads but I expect they are
not expensive either. Ditto for the container. Plastic and molding are
cheap.

I won't deny the company profit but ink cartridges are where they make
the bulk of it.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:22:09 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
wrote:



Why is finding a decent printer to print photos at home at a decent
price such a miserable process?

It's supposed to be. Walgreens and others spend many $thousands for
photo printers. They print photos cheaper than ever because of
volume. Probably gave their business analysts and purchasing
departments many miserable days.
I rejected home photo printing out-of-hand by looking at costs.
Didn't want to get miserable.

--
Vic

On 8/20/2012 3:25 PM, J.G. wrote:
On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:11:47 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Another thing to consider with lasers is startup time.

I print maybe one page every two or three days, on average.

I generally leave the printer on all the time.

However, I 'could' just as well turn it off, for all it has
been used.

But, when I had the HP d135 AIO printer, I remember admonishments
to keep it running all the time - otherwise it wasted ink (I was
told).

And, we all know, HP ink costs more than it's weight in gold.

So, what's the general consensus for leaving printers on
which are only used sporadically a few days of the week?

Does that play a role in our printer selection decision?


energy hogs, i would guess. they have to be kept at a hot temp for the
toner to be fused to the paper, so you're paying to keep it hot, and
then the a/c costs to keep the room cool. i guess in winter, if you're
in a place that needs heating, it's a wash.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:25:41 +0000, J.G. wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:11:47 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Another thing to consider with lasers is startup time.

I print maybe one page every two or three days, on average.

I generally leave the printer on all the time.

However, I 'could' just as well turn it off, for all it has been used.

But, when I had the HP d135 AIO printer, I remember admonishments to
keep it running all the time - otherwise it wasted ink (I was told).

True of inkjets (and to stop them clogging). Nonsense for lasers.

Most lasers (even old ones) go into a power saving mode after a while,
and the fuser heater is turned off. But they still use power. We use a 20
year old HP LaserJet 4M+, which does that after 15 minutes. But they use
a lot of energy, so I generally turn it off. To encourage me, I have a
wireless power control on it now, controlled from my desk (on the other
side of the room).

We use that printer for all B&W stuff, and an ancient-ish Xerox C20
(Lexmark Optra 45 clone) for the occasional colour.

--
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

*lightning protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 8/20/2012 1:07 PM, J.G. wrote:

4. Try to explain to your family that they should only select the color
printer for things that absolutely need to be printed in color.

Good advice!

I was thinking of setting something up where it was necessary to use a
password to print to the color printer. I could have put it on a
separate network with a network key that only I knew. But as my kids got
older they were able to grasp the reasons I wanted to minimize ink usage.

5. Show your family how to send photos to Walgreen's, CVS, or Costco for
printing.

Makes the most sense of all!
Now to convince them of that!

For photos, the quality and longevity of commercially printed photos
versus inkjet should be sufficient.

Personally, we have greatly reduced our ink usage. Before we had
networked printers there were printers in the kids rooms. This was a bad
idea. Now they have to come downstairs to get their printouts.

Just bought a laser printer for the daughter-unit to take to college
next month, and of course it has refillable toner cartridges.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:25:41 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:11:47 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Another thing to consider with lasers is startup time.

I print maybe one page every two or three days, on average.

I generally leave the printer on all the time.

However, I 'could' just as well turn it off, for all it has
been used.

But, when I had the HP d135 AIO printer, I remember admonishments
to keep it running all the time - otherwise it wasted ink (I was
told).

And, we all know, HP ink costs more than it's weight in gold.

So, what's the general consensus for leaving printers on
which are only used sporadically a few days of the week?

Does that play a role in our printer selection decision?

Not for me. I always leave it off. Ran out of ink.
So for small stuff like travel directions I pull a piece of paper out
of the printer (unless there's an opened trash mail envelope handy)
then write it down with a pen or pencil.
Like
41 west for 2 miles
left on 93, etc.

For bigger stuff I e-mail it to a an Office depot about a mile away
and go there. Last time they printed about 6 pages of pdf files and
e-mails for about a buck.
But I don't run a business and I have a lot of services close by.
For me it's a lot cheaper not to buy ink.

--
Vic

On 8/20/2012 3:22 PM, J.G. wrote:

Why is finding a decent printer to print photos at home at a decent
price such a miserable process?

Around here it costs 9-15¢ to have a 4x6 photo printed on a Noritsu
commercial photo printer. If I send it to Walgreen's or CVS then usually
by the time I walk there, in ten minutes, the photo is ready. For large
prints Costco is the best deal.

By the time you buy photo paper and ink or toner it would be unlikely
for it to cost less to do it yourself, and of course the results would
not be nearly as good.

So I think the reason why it's so hard is that a decent photo printer
isn't cheap to manufacture or maintain and the wide availability of
photo printing service have eliminated the demand.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 14:18:07 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 13:25:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, August 20, 2012 3:58:31 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
(Kodak) -- "It's not "cheap ink" it's premium ink made affordable."

First off, Kodak is in the throes of bankruptcy right now and is not likely to emerge as an independent company. More likely the various divisions will be sold off to the highest bidders, with the printer division likely going to HP who will immediately halt production of the "redundant" (read: competitive) products.


Over the film. Who said HP will get the printer division.

Second off, I have not heard a single good thing about Kodak printers from anyone outside this group here today.

Wow.


The reason HP inks are so expensive is because you're getting a new printhead as part of the ink cartridge on most of their models. Kodak's are cheap because the printhead is part of the printer. You might get 2-3 cartridges worth of ink through a printhead before output quality starts to degrade noticeably on the Kodaks.


Mine did not degrade. The print head lasted at least 3 years, before
it needed to be replaced.

HP does have a few models now with separately replaceable printheads. I have a 7000 series wide carriage printer with the separate head and a full set of double-life inks is only about $50. My previous HP's black cartridge was easily $50 by itself.

Screw HP.

Precisely. I've bought my last HP. Their marketing tactics suck as badly as
their software.

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:34:19 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 22:10:38 +0000 (UTC), "J.G."
wrote:

Point is, the ONLY reason HP ink costs as much as it does
is that it is an integral part of their sales strategy.

...and or they have a government contract. Don't know now, but their
corporate network printers were ~ $25,000.

That's not unusual. Some of Kodaks (ink jets, even) run well into the
million$.

Toner locally was ~ $100.00 a pop. I _had_ to buy two printers (50K)
through the contract. This meant $200 ever so often for local priced
toner.

On 8/20/2012 7:12 PM, SMS wrote:
On 8/20/2012 3:22 PM, J.G. wrote:

Why is finding a decent printer to print photos at home at a decent
price such a miserable process?

Around here it costs 9-15¢ to have a 4x6 photo printed on a Noritsu
commercial photo printer. If I send it to Walgreen's or CVS then usually
by the time I walk there, in ten minutes, the photo is ready. For large
prints Costco is the best deal.

By the time you buy photo paper and ink or toner it would be unlikely
for it to cost less to do it yourself, and of course the results would
not be nearly as good.

I use Costco for all prints. I think there quality is usually very good
= excellent, provided I use the ICC profile for the machine I am using.
I also did a cost analysis and it is slightly less expensive to do my
own printing, provided I don't factor in the mistakes. Once I factor
those in, Costco is much less expensive.


--
Peter

"J.G." writes:

On Mon, 20 Aug 2012 10:56:16 +0900, Gernot Hassenpflug wrote:

The chipped inks (you canot get unchipped one anymore as far as I know)
require a chip clearer (USB-attached to my PC) to reset the counter on
the cartridge, or else the printer will register it as empty.

Are you saying that the Canon inks that you buy are now chipped?

If so, that's a pain.

Yes, they are all chipped. The last unchipped ones I think were the
"3" series (OK, I know the names are different in the rest of the
world), used on the MP710/MP740 (similar to the MP700/730, so pretty
old). These were replaced by the chipped "6" series and later types.
--
Gernot Hassenpflug