I've received three estimates to remove two old layers and add a new
layer to my 3400 sq ft roof on a ranch house in central New Jersey.

Company A: $11,940.00, GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles. Gave estimate
on the spot. Said job would take less than one day. Estimate includes
$700 dumpster charge, and up to three sheets of plywood. (I estimate
that the one soft spot is only 1 foot x 3 feet.) Cricket not discussed.)

Company B: $9,280, IKO Cambridge AR. Gave estimate on the spot. Said job
would take less than one day. No dumpster; uses company-owned dump
trucks. Up to three sheets of plywood free. If I want GAF shingles, they
would charge an extra $980, bringing the total to $10,260. Price of
building a cricket next to the chimney included.

Company C: $8,575, GAF Timberline Lifetime singles. Came to my house on
Monday, promised an estimate via email in one or two days; it arrived
today, four days later. Each sheet of plywood, $50. Will probably use a
dumpster. Cricket included.

Peripheral stuff like ridge vents, drip edges and replacing plumbing
pipe penetrations with non-rusting aluminum ones are the same with all
three companies. The warranty on the IKO shingles seems better than on
the GAF, but once you read them you see that all contain too many
loopholes and limitations, and just about all shingle manufacturers are
involved in class action lawsuits regarding not honoring their warranties.

In Company C's favor, aside from the price: He was the only one to walk
on the roof, inspect it and tell me I really didn't need a new one;
there are just portions of one or two shingles missing. Also, his email
proposal was the most professional, with each item specified in great
detail and everything neatly typed in a Word document.

Against Company C: He didn't meet his own deadline for the estimate,
which raises doubt about his trustworthiness; the job would take more
than the one day the other two companies promised, and the dumpster. (I
probably shouldn't be concerned about the dumpster, as it will be on
plywood "feet" to protect my blacktop driveway.)

As I am writing this, Company B called. I asked how C could be so much
lower than B even with the GAF shingles he wants an extra $980 for. B
called back at few minutes later, after checking his figures, and came
back with $9,700 as his best price.

(For the record, HD charges about $100 per square (3 bundles) for the
GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles, and my roof needs 34 bundles. IKO runs
about $84 per bundle if picked up, $88.65 if delivered, and $90 if
boomed up. IKO prices are from an Indiana company, ReeseWholesaler.com.
So HD, a retailer, would charge $510 more for the GAFs.)

With C being $1,125 cheaper, seems like a no-brainer to chose them. But
I thank you for your comments on something I may have overlooked, and
whether to bring in a company D and E.

On 7/20/2012 3:45 PM, Rebel1 wrote:
I've received three estimates to remove two old layers and add a new
layer to my 3400 sq ft roof on a ranch house in central New Jersey.

Company A: $11,940.00, GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles. Gave estimate
on the spot. Said job would take less than one day. Estimate includes
$700 dumpster charge, and up to three sheets of plywood. (I estimate
that the one soft spot is only 1 foot x 3 feet.) Cricket not discussed.)

Company B: $9,280, IKO Cambridge AR. Gave estimate on the spot. Said job
would take less than one day. No dumpster; uses company-owned dump
trucks. Up to three sheets of plywood free. If I want GAF shingles, they
would charge an extra $980, bringing the total to $10,260. Price of
building a cricket next to the chimney included.

Company C: $8,575, GAF Timberline Lifetime singles. Came to my house on
Monday, promised an estimate via email in one or two days; it arrived
today, four days later. Each sheet of plywood, $50. Will probably use a
dumpster. Cricket included.

Peripheral stuff like ridge vents, drip edges and replacing plumbing
pipe penetrations with non-rusting aluminum ones are the same with all
three companies. The warranty on the IKO shingles seems better than on
the GAF, but once you read them you see that all contain too many
loopholes and limitations, and just about all shingle manufacturers are
involved in class action lawsuits regarding not honoring their warranties.

In Company C's favor, aside from the price: He was the only one to walk
on the roof, inspect it and tell me I really didn't need a new one;
there are just portions of one or two shingles missing. Also, his email
proposal was the most professional, with each item specified in great
detail and everything neatly typed in a Word document.

Against Company C: He didn't meet his own deadline for the estimate,
which raises doubt about his trustworthiness; the job would take more
than the one day the other two companies promised, and the dumpster. (I
probably shouldn't be concerned about the dumpster, as it will be on
plywood "feet" to protect my blacktop driveway.)

As I am writing this, Company B called. I asked how C could be so much
lower than B even with the GAF shingles he wants an extra $980 for. B
called back at few minutes later, after checking his figures, and came
back with $9,700 as his best price.

(For the record, HD charges about $100 per square (3 bundles) for the
GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles, and my roof needs 34 bundles. IKO runs
about $84 per bundle if picked up, $88.65 if delivered, and $90 if
boomed up. IKO prices are from an Indiana company, ReeseWholesaler.com.
So HD, a retailer, would charge $510 more for the GAFs.)

With C being $1,125 cheaper, seems like a no-brainer to chose them. But
I thank you for your comments on something I may have overlooked, and
whether to bring in a company D and E.




Can't really give you good advice as I've only had one roof replacement
over 20 years ago but it is nice to see your prices as I may have to
face same issue in 5 years or so.

I tend to deal with contractors that I have used before or can get
reliable referrals on like from family members. Also learned that a
contractor good with my windows and doors was not good with my son's
roof. In first case using all American workers for windows and doors but
all probably illegals on roof.

I would also get job done in one day. Don't want someone banging on my
roof for a week or having a mess in my yard.

On 7/20/2012 3:45 PM, Rebel1 wrote:
I've received three estimates to remove two old layers and add a new
layer to my 3400 sq ft roof on a ranch house in central New Jersey.


With C being $1,125 cheaper, seems like a no-brainer to chose them. But
I thank you for your comments on something I may have overlooked, and
whether to bring in a company D and E.



It's nice that company C walked around the roof. I wouldn't let the
late quote bother me too much. Sounds like he priced it like they want
the job esp since they inspected the existing roof

If it takes company C longer than the more expensive quotes, now you
know the cost of the additional labour.

I'd get a second quote from somebody who'll walk the roof or ask for
references from the guys that already gave you a quote. My co-worker
was having trouble finding a reasonable or reliable roofer last year so
I showed him my bill and pictures of the work done on my roof in 2007.

I live an hour away from my co-worker as does my roofer yet my co-worker
called him up and sure enuf the roofer agreed to quote. It was higher
than some others and lower than others as well but they did the deal and
my co-worker was happy as ****. Never underestimate the power of
references. Ask around and see if somebody you know was happy with a
new roof they got.

All of this is my measly two cents worth.

On Jul 20, 3:45*pm, Rebel1 wrote:
I've received three estimates to remove two old layers and add a new
layer to my 3400 sq ft roof on a ranch house in central New Jersey.

Company A: $11,940.00, GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles. Gave estimate
on the spot. Said job would take less than one day. Estimate includes
$700 dumpster charge, and up to three sheets of plywood. (I estimate
that the one soft spot is only 1 foot x 3 feet.) Cricket not discussed.)

Company B: $9,280, IKO Cambridge AR. Gave estimate on the spot. Said job
would take less than one day. No dumpster; uses company-owned dump
trucks. Up to three sheets of plywood free. If I want GAF shingles, they
would charge an extra $980, bringing the total to $10,260. Price of
building a cricket next to the chimney included.

Company C: $8,575, GAF Timberline Lifetime singles. Came to my house on
Monday, promised an estimate via email in one or two days; it arrived
today, four days later. Each sheet of plywood, $50. Will probably use a
dumpster. Cricket included.

Peripheral stuff like ridge vents, drip edges and replacing plumbing
pipe penetrations with non-rusting aluminum ones are the same with all
three companies. The warranty on the IKO shingles seems better than on
the GAF, but once you read them you see that all contain too many
loopholes and limitations, and just about all shingle manufacturers are
involved in class action lawsuits regarding not honoring their warranties..

In Company C's favor, aside from the price: He was the only one to walk
on the roof, inspect it and tell me I really didn't need a new one;
there are just portions of one or two shingles missing. Also, his email
proposal was the most professional, with each item specified in great
detail and everything neatly typed in a Word document.

Against Company C: He didn't meet his own deadline for the estimate,
which raises doubt about his trustworthiness; the job would take more
than the one day the other two companies promised, and the dumpster. (I
probably shouldn't be concerned about the dumpster, as it will be on
plywood "feet" to protect my blacktop driveway.)

As I am writing this, Company B called. I asked how C could be so much
lower than B even with the GAF shingles he wants an extra $980 for. B
called back at few minutes later, after checking his figures, and came
back with $9,700 as his best price.

(For the record, HD charges about $100 per square (3 bundles) for the
GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles, and my roof needs 34 bundles. IKO runs
about $84 per bundle if picked up, $88.65 if delivered, and $90 if
boomed up. IKO prices are from an Indiana company, ReeseWholesaler.com.
So HD, a retailer, would charge $510 more for the GAFs.)

With C being $1,125 cheaper, seems like a no-brainer to chose them. But
I thank you for your comments on something I may have overlooked, and
whether to bring in a company D and E.

Did either of the GAF guys talk about Deck Armor for use with their
lifetime shingles?

http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Residenti...rotection.aspx

It's my understanding that if they don't use the entire roofing
"system" and aren't certified to install it, the lifetime warranty
won't be honored.

Rebel1 wrote:
I've received three estimates to remove two old layers and add a new
layer to my 3400 sq ft roof on a ranch house in central New Jersey.

Company A: $11,940.00, GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles. Gave estimate
on the spot. Said job would take less than one day. Estimate includes
$700 dumpster charge, and up to three sheets of plywood. (I estimate
that the one soft spot is only 1 foot x 3 feet.) Cricket not
discussed.)
Company B: $9,280, IKO Cambridge AR. Gave estimate on the spot. Said
job would take less than one day. No dumpster; uses company-owned dump
trucks. Up to three sheets of plywood free. If I want GAF shingles,
they would charge an extra $980, bringing the total to $10,260. Price
of building a cricket next to the chimney included.

Company C: $8,575, GAF Timberline Lifetime singles. Came to my house
on Monday, promised an estimate via email in one or two days; it
arrived today, four days later. Each sheet of plywood, $50. Will
probably use a dumpster. Cricket included.

Peripheral stuff like ridge vents, drip edges and replacing plumbing
pipe penetrations with non-rusting aluminum ones are the same with all
three companies. The warranty on the IKO shingles seems better than on
the GAF, but once you read them you see that all contain too many
loopholes and limitations, and just about all shingle manufacturers
are involved in class action lawsuits regarding not honoring their
warranties.
In Company C's favor, aside from the price: He was the only one to
walk on the roof, inspect it and tell me I really didn't need a new
one; there are just portions of one or two shingles missing. Also, his
email proposal was the most professional, with each item specified in
great detail and everything neatly typed in a Word document.

Against Company C: He didn't meet his own deadline for the estimate,
which raises doubt about his trustworthiness; the job would take more
than the one day the other two companies promised, and the dumpster.
(I probably shouldn't be concerned about the dumpster, as it will be
on plywood "feet" to protect my blacktop driveway.)

As I am writing this, Company B called. I asked how C could be so much
lower than B even with the GAF shingles he wants an extra $980 for. B
called back at few minutes later, after checking his figures, and came
back with $9,700 as his best price.

(For the record, HD charges about $100 per square (3 bundles) for the
GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles, and my roof needs 34 bundles. IKO
runs about $84 per bundle if picked up, $88.65 if delivered, and $90
if boomed up. IKO prices are from an Indiana company,
ReeseWholesaler.com. So HD, a retailer, would charge $510 more for
the GAFs.)
With C being $1,125 cheaper, seems like a no-brainer to chose them.
But I thank you for your comments on something I may have overlooked, and
whether to bring in a company D and E.

What do others say?
* The BBB?
* Homeowners who have used companies A, B, & C, that is, check their
references.
* (Believe it or not) the store manager at Home Depot or Lowes?
* What does A say about B and C, B about A and C, and so on?
* Your (and other) insurance agents in your town?

Then, too, there are issues which many (not me) think are important:
Licenses, insurance, use of union labor, permits, etc.

On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 15:45:02 -0400, Rebel1
wrote:

I've received three estimates to remove two old layers and add a new
layer to my 3400 sq ft roof on a ranch house in central New Jersey.

Company A: $11,940.00, GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles. Gave estimate
on the spot. Said job would take less than one day. Estimate includes
$700 dumpster charge, and up to three sheets of plywood. (I estimate
that the one soft spot is only 1 foot x 3 feet.) Cricket not discussed.)

Company B: $9,280, IKO Cambridge AR. Gave estimate on the spot. Said job
would take less than one day. No dumpster; uses company-owned dump
trucks. Up to three sheets of plywood free. If I want GAF shingles, they
would charge an extra $980, bringing the total to $10,260. Price of
building a cricket next to the chimney included.

Company C: $8,575, GAF Timberline Lifetime singles. Came to my house on
Monday, promised an estimate via email in one or two days; it arrived
today, four days later. Each sheet of plywood, $50. Will probably use a
dumpster. Cricket included.

Peripheral stuff like ridge vents, drip edges and replacing plumbing
pipe penetrations with non-rusting aluminum ones are the same with all
three companies. The warranty on the IKO shingles seems better than on
the GAF, but once you read them you see that all contain too many
loopholes and limitations, and just about all shingle manufacturers are
involved in class action lawsuits regarding not honoring their warranties.

In Company C's favor, aside from the price: He was the only one to walk
on the roof, inspect it and tell me I really didn't need a new one;
there are just portions of one or two shingles missing. Also, his email
proposal was the most professional, with each item specified in great
detail and everything neatly typed in a Word document.

Against Company C: He didn't meet his own deadline for the estimate,
which raises doubt about his trustworthiness; the job would take more
than the one day the other two companies promised, and the dumpster. (I
probably shouldn't be concerned about the dumpster, as it will be on
plywood "feet" to protect my blacktop driveway.)

As I am writing this, Company B called. I asked how C could be so much
lower than B even with the GAF shingles he wants an extra $980 for. B
called back at few minutes later, after checking his figures, and came
back with $9,700 as his best price.

(For the record, HD charges about $100 per square (3 bundles) for the
GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles, and my roof needs 34 bundles. IKO runs
about $84 per bundle if picked up, $88.65 if delivered, and $90 if
boomed up. IKO prices are from an Indiana company, ReeseWholesaler.com.
So HD, a retailer, would charge $510 more for the GAFs.)

With C being $1,125 cheaper, seems like a no-brainer to chose them. But
I thank you for your comments on something I may have overlooked, and
whether to bring in a company D and E.





The only thing I would suggest is to request references of nearby
customers where they have done roofing jobs. Then make sure you
contact and talk to those references. Price is not the only
consideration for a job that should last 20+ years. If the
workmanship is substandard then you've wasted your money. And all too
often the roofing company will go out of business and leave you up the
creek. Also check with your state or local BBB (Better Business
Bureau) to see how these vendors are rated.

Good luck - you'll have to live with your choice for a LONG time.

On 7/20/2012 12:45 PM, Rebel1 wrote:
I've received three estimates to remove two old layers and add a new
layer to my 3400 sq ft roof on a ranch house in central New Jersey.

Company A: $11,940.00, GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles. Gave estimate
on the spot. Said job would take less than one day. Estimate includes
$700 dumpster charge, and up to three sheets of plywood. (I estimate
that the one soft spot is only 1 foot x 3 feet.) Cricket not discussed.)

Company B: $9,280, IKO Cambridge AR. Gave estimate on the spot. Said job
would take less than one day. No dumpster; uses company-owned dump
trucks. Up to three sheets of plywood free. If I want GAF shingles, they
would charge an extra $980, bringing the total to $10,260. Price of
building a cricket next to the chimney included.

Company C: $8,575, GAF Timberline Lifetime singles. Came to my house on
Monday, promised an estimate via email in one or two days; it arrived
today, four days later. Each sheet of plywood, $50. Will probably use a
dumpster. Cricket included.

Peripheral stuff like ridge vents, drip edges and replacing plumbing
pipe penetrations with non-rusting aluminum ones are the same with all
three companies. The warranty on the IKO shingles seems better than on
the GAF, but once you read them you see that all contain too many
loopholes and limitations, and just about all shingle manufacturers are
involved in class action lawsuits regarding not honoring their warranties.

In Company C's favor, aside from the price: He was the only one to walk
on the roof, inspect it and tell me I really didn't need a new one;
there are just portions of one or two shingles missing. Also, his email
proposal was the most professional, with each item specified in great
detail and everything neatly typed in a Word document.

Against Company C: He didn't meet his own deadline for the estimate,
which raises doubt about his trustworthiness; the job would take more
than the one day the other two companies promised, and the dumpster. (I
probably shouldn't be concerned about the dumpster, as it will be on
plywood "feet" to protect my blacktop driveway.)

As I am writing this, Company B called. I asked how C could be so much
lower than B even with the GAF shingles he wants an extra $980 for. B
called back at few minutes later, after checking his figures, and came
back with $9,700 as his best price.

(For the record, HD charges about $100 per square (3 bundles) for the
GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles, and my roof needs 34 bundles. IKO runs
about $84 per bundle if picked up, $88.65 if delivered, and $90 if
boomed up. IKO prices are from an Indiana company, ReeseWholesaler.com.
So HD, a retailer, would charge $510 more for the GAFs.)

With C being $1,125 cheaper, seems like a no-brainer to chose them. But
I thank you for your comments on something I may have overlooked, and
whether to bring in a company D and E.
get references for 2 year old jobs and go look and talk to them.

Rebel1 wrote:
I've received three estimates to remove two old layers and add a new
layer to my 3400 sq ft roof on a ranch house in central New Jersey.

Company A: $11,940.00, GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles. Gave estimate
on the spot. Said job would take less than one day. Estimate includes
$700 dumpster charge, and up to three sheets of plywood. (I estimate
that the one soft spot is only 1 foot x 3 feet.) Cricket not
discussed.)
Company B: $9,280, IKO Cambridge AR. Gave estimate on the spot. Said
job would take less than one day. No dumpster; uses company-owned dump
trucks. Up to three sheets of plywood free. If I want GAF shingles,
they would charge an extra $980, bringing the total to $10,260. Price
of building a cricket next to the chimney included.

Company C: $8,575, GAF Timberline Lifetime singles. Came to my house
on Monday, promised an estimate via email in one or two days; it
arrived today, four days later. Each sheet of plywood, $50. Will
probably use a dumpster. Cricket included.

Peripheral stuff like ridge vents, drip edges and replacing plumbing
pipe penetrations with non-rusting aluminum ones are the same with all
three companies. The warranty on the IKO shingles seems better than on
the GAF, but once you read them you see that all contain too many
loopholes and limitations, and just about all shingle manufacturers
are involved in class action lawsuits regarding not honoring their
warranties.
In Company C's favor, aside from the price: He was the only one to
walk on the roof, inspect it and tell me I really didn't need a new
one; there are just portions of one or two shingles missing. Also, his
email proposal was the most professional, with each item specified in
great detail and everything neatly typed in a Word document.

Against Company C: He didn't meet his own deadline for the estimate,
which raises doubt about his trustworthiness; the job would take more
than the one day the other two companies promised, and the dumpster.
(I probably shouldn't be concerned about the dumpster, as it will be
on plywood "feet" to protect my blacktop driveway.)

As I am writing this, Company B called. I asked how C could be so much
lower than B even with the GAF shingles he wants an extra $980 for. B
called back at few minutes later, after checking his figures, and came
back with $9,700 as his best price.

(For the record, HD charges about $100 per square (3 bundles) for the
GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles, and my roof needs 34 bundles. IKO
runs about $84 per bundle if picked up, $88.65 if delivered, and $90
if boomed up. IKO prices are from an Indiana company,
ReeseWholesaler.com. So HD, a retailer, would charge $510 more for
the GAFs.)
With C being $1,125 cheaper, seems like a no-brainer to chose them.
But I thank you for your comments on something I may have overlooked, and
whether to bring in a company D and E.

It sounds like you are doing what you need to do in terms of comparing
companies, prices, what they will do, etc.

Someone mentioned permits. I assume you have already figured that part out,
but if it were me, I would have them get the permit as part of the contract
since they will be the licensed contractor that will be doing the work.

And, of course, make sure they are insured.

For a one-day (or two-day) job, make sure that you do not give them a
deposit up front. Let them do the job and then pay them in full as soon as
it is done to your satisfaction. If they are lining up jobs and taking
deposits, those who paid a deposit may be the last to see their job
completed. Once a deposit is paid, there is little incentive for the
contract to actually do the work since he already has his "profit" in hand.

wrote:

Also check with your state or local BBB (Better Business
Bureau) to see how these vendors are rated.

You need to do more than that. Almost every state requires companies to have
contractor licenses and workmans comp insurance. You need to ask for proof of
both and then confirm that they are valid with your state licensing agency. You
don't want to be sued because someone fell off your roof.

References can be faked, but talking to the local roofing products supplier
(where the contractors get their material from) is a great way to get
unvarnished reviews. Believe me, they know who the good and bad guys are.

On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:43:53 -0400, wrote:

Also check with your state or local BBB (Better Business
Bureau) to see how these vendors are rated.

Also check the Ten Most Wanted list web site with your state
contractors board, if you have such a site.

Nevada:

North / South

http://www.nvcontractorsboard.com/most_wanted.php

Roofers pose as contractors, but may be on the list of criminals.

On Jul 20, 4:10*pm, Frank wrote:
On 7/20/2012 3:45 PM, Rebel1 wrote:







I've received three estimates to remove two old layers and add a new
layer to my 3400 sq ft roof on a ranch house in central New Jersey.

Company A: $11,940.00, GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles. Gave estimate
on the spot. Said job would take less than one day. Estimate includes
$700 dumpster charge, and up to three sheets of plywood. (I estimate
that the one soft spot is only 1 foot x 3 feet.) Cricket not discussed.)

Company B: $9,280, IKO Cambridge AR. Gave estimate on the spot. Said job
would take less than one day. No dumpster; uses company-owned dump
trucks. Up to three sheets of plywood free. If I want GAF shingles, they
would charge an extra $980, bringing the total to $10,260. Price of
building a cricket next to the chimney included.

Company C: $8,575, GAF Timberline Lifetime singles. Came to my house on
Monday, promised an estimate via email in one or two days; it arrived
today, four days later. Each sheet of plywood, $50. Will probably use a
dumpster. Cricket included.

Peripheral stuff like ridge vents, drip edges and replacing plumbing
pipe penetrations with non-rusting aluminum ones are the same with all
three companies. The warranty on the IKO shingles seems better than on
the GAF, but once you read them you see that all contain too many
loopholes and limitations, and just about all shingle manufacturers are
involved in class action lawsuits regarding not honoring their warranties.

In Company C's favor, aside from the price: He was the only one to walk
on the roof, inspect it and tell me I really didn't need a new one;
there are just portions of one or two shingles missing. Also, his email
proposal was the most professional, with each item specified in great
detail and everything neatly typed in a Word document.

Against Company C: He didn't meet his own deadline for the estimate,
which raises doubt about his trustworthiness; the job would take more
than the one day the other two companies promised, and the dumpster. (I
probably shouldn't be concerned about the dumpster, as it will be on
plywood "feet" to protect my blacktop driveway.)

As I am writing this, Company B called. I asked how C could be so much
lower than B even with the GAF shingles he wants an extra $980 for. B
called back at few minutes later, after checking his figures, and came
back with $9,700 as his best price.

(For the record, HD charges about $100 per square (3 bundles) for the
GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles, and my roof needs 34 bundles. IKO runs
about $84 per bundle if picked up, $88.65 if delivered, and $90 if
boomed up. IKO prices are from an Indiana company, ReeseWholesaler.com.
So HD, a retailer, would charge $510 more for the GAFs.)

With C being $1,125 cheaper, seems like a no-brainer to chose them. But
I thank you for your comments on something I may have overlooked, and
whether to bring in a company D and E.

Can't really give you good advice as I've only had one roof replacement
over 20 years ago but it is nice to see your prices as I may have to
face same issue in 5 years or so.

I tend to deal with contractors that I have used before or can get
reliable referrals on like from family members. *Also learned that a
contractor good with my windows and doors was not good with my son's
roof. In first case using all American workers for windows and doors but
all probably illegals on roof.

I would also get job done in one day. *Don't want someone banging on my
roof for a week or having a mess in my yard.

I'd prefer a job done right than a job done fast. One day or two days,
even three, wouldn't bother me as long as they were working on my roof
and not splitting the days on 2 or 3 jobs. I don't care if they only
get 3 jobs done in a week because they spend extra time of each job.
That's their problem...I'd prefer "slow and steady" as opposed "rush
it and move on".

I did run into a little of the job splitting issue when my roof was
recently done, but it was understandable. My contractor hires a guy to
make his gutters and then my contractor's crew hangs them. It turned
out the the gutter guy ran into a problem and wasn't available when my
guy was ready for him.

He told me what was going on then went around the block to start
another job. 2 days later when the gutter guy was available, he and a
couple of his guys left the other job and came over to hang my
gutters. Stuff happens. No big deal.

On 7/20/2012 6:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Jul 20, 4:10 pm, Frank wrote:
On 7/20/2012 3:45 PM, Rebel1 wrote:







I've received three estimates to remove two old layers and add a new
layer to my 3400 sq ft roof on a ranch house in central New Jersey.

Company A: $11,940.00, GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles. Gave estimate
on the spot. Said job would take less than one day. Estimate includes
$700 dumpster charge, and up to three sheets of plywood. (I estimate
that the one soft spot is only 1 foot x 3 feet.) Cricket not discussed.)

Company B: $9,280, IKO Cambridge AR. Gave estimate on the spot. Said job
would take less than one day. No dumpster; uses company-owned dump
trucks. Up to three sheets of plywood free. If I want GAF shingles, they
would charge an extra $980, bringing the total to $10,260. Price of
building a cricket next to the chimney included.

Company C: $8,575, GAF Timberline Lifetime singles. Came to my house on
Monday, promised an estimate via email in one or two days; it arrived
today, four days later. Each sheet of plywood, $50. Will probably use a
dumpster. Cricket included.

Peripheral stuff like ridge vents, drip edges and replacing plumbing
pipe penetrations with non-rusting aluminum ones are the same with all
three companies. The warranty on the IKO shingles seems better than on
the GAF, but once you read them you see that all contain too many
loopholes and limitations, and just about all shingle manufacturers are
involved in class action lawsuits regarding not honoring their warranties.

In Company C's favor, aside from the price: He was the only one to walk
on the roof, inspect it and tell me I really didn't need a new one;
there are just portions of one or two shingles missing. Also, his email
proposal was the most professional, with each item specified in great
detail and everything neatly typed in a Word document.

Against Company C: He didn't meet his own deadline for the estimate,
which raises doubt about his trustworthiness; the job would take more
than the one day the other two companies promised, and the dumpster. (I
probably shouldn't be concerned about the dumpster, as it will be on
plywood "feet" to protect my blacktop driveway.)

As I am writing this, Company B called. I asked how C could be so much
lower than B even with the GAF shingles he wants an extra $980 for. B
called back at few minutes later, after checking his figures, and came
back with $9,700 as his best price.

(For the record, HD charges about $100 per square (3 bundles) for the
GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles, and my roof needs 34 bundles. IKO runs
about $84 per bundle if picked up, $88.65 if delivered, and $90 if
boomed up. IKO prices are from an Indiana company, ReeseWholesaler.com.
So HD, a retailer, would charge $510 more for the GAFs.)

With C being $1,125 cheaper, seems like a no-brainer to chose them. But
I thank you for your comments on something I may have overlooked, and
whether to bring in a company D and E.

Can't really give you good advice as I've only had one roof replacement
over 20 years ago but it is nice to see your prices as I may have to
face same issue in 5 years or so.

I tend to deal with contractors that I have used before or can get
reliable referrals on like from family members. Also learned that a
contractor good with my windows and doors was not good with my son's
roof. In first case using all American workers for windows and doors but
all probably illegals on roof.

I would also get job done in one day. Don't want someone banging on my
roof for a week or having a mess in my yard.

I'd prefer a job done right than a job done fast. One day or two days,
even three, wouldn't bother me as long as they were working on my roof
and not splitting the days on 2 or 3 jobs. I don't care if they only
get 3 jobs done in a week because they spend extra time of each job.
That's their problem...I'd prefer "slow and steady" as opposed "rush
it and move on".

I did run into a little of the job splitting issue when my roof was
recently done, but it was understandable. My contractor hires a guy to
make his gutters and then my contractor's crew hangs them. It turned
out the the gutter guy ran into a problem and wasn't available when my
guy was ready for him.

He told me what was going on then went around the block to start
another job. 2 days later when the gutter guy was available, he and a
couple of his guys left the other job and came over to hang my
gutters. Stuff happens. No big deal.


I say one day but something unexpected could happen to delay a day.
I've seen roofing jobs done over a period of what seemed like 2 weeks
with only one or two guys working and carrying shingles up a ladder.
You may save a buck, but who wants this aggravation?

My good window guy, on his last job here showed up minus 2 special
windows that he said he would install later. My wife made him load up
his truck and told him to come back when he had all the windows to do
the whole job which was done maybe 6 weeks later. I might have let him
but he wanted to be paid if he did the partial job which is something I
will not do.

On Jul 20, 6:41*pm, Frank wrote:
On 7/20/2012 6:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:









On Jul 20, 4:10 pm, Frank wrote:
On 7/20/2012 3:45 PM, Rebel1 wrote:

I've received three estimates to remove two old layers and add a new
layer to my 3400 sq ft roof on a ranch house in central New Jersey.

Company A: $11,940.00, GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles. Gave estimate
on the spot. Said job would take less than one day. Estimate includes
$700 dumpster charge, and up to three sheets of plywood. (I estimate
that the one soft spot is only 1 foot x 3 feet.) Cricket not discussed.)

Company B: $9,280, IKO Cambridge AR. Gave estimate on the spot. Said job
would take less than one day. No dumpster; uses company-owned dump
trucks. Up to three sheets of plywood free. If I want GAF shingles, they
would charge an extra $980, bringing the total to $10,260. Price of
building a cricket next to the chimney included.

Company C: $8,575, GAF Timberline Lifetime singles. Came to my house on
Monday, promised an estimate via email in one or two days; it arrived
today, four days later. Each sheet of plywood, $50. Will probably use a
dumpster. Cricket included.

Peripheral stuff like ridge vents, drip edges and replacing plumbing
pipe penetrations with non-rusting aluminum ones are the same with all
three companies. The warranty on the IKO shingles seems better than on
the GAF, but once you read them you see that all contain too many
loopholes and limitations, and just about all shingle manufacturers are
involved in class action lawsuits regarding not honoring their warranties.

In Company C's favor, aside from the price: He was the only one to walk
on the roof, inspect it and tell me I really didn't need a new one;
there are just portions of one or two shingles missing. Also, his email
proposal was the most professional, with each item specified in great
detail and everything neatly typed in a Word document.

Against Company C: He didn't meet his own deadline for the estimate,
which raises doubt about his trustworthiness; the job would take more
than the one day the other two companies promised, and the dumpster. (I
probably shouldn't be concerned about the dumpster, as it will be on
plywood "feet" to protect my blacktop driveway.)

As I am writing this, Company B called. I asked how C could be so much
lower than B even with the GAF shingles he wants an extra $980 for. B
called back at few minutes later, after checking his figures, and came
back with $9,700 as his best price.

(For the record, HD charges about $100 per square (3 bundles) for the
GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles, and my roof needs 34 bundles. IKO runs
about $84 per bundle if picked up, $88.65 if delivered, and $90 if
boomed up. IKO prices are from an Indiana company, ReeseWholesaler.com.
So HD, a retailer, would charge $510 more for the GAFs.)

With C being $1,125 cheaper, seems like a no-brainer to chose them. But
I thank you for your comments on something I may have overlooked, and
whether to bring in a company D and E.

Can't really give you good advice as I've only had one roof replacement
over 20 years ago but it is nice to see your prices as I may have to
face same issue in 5 years or so.

I tend to deal with contractors that I have used before or can get
reliable referrals on like from family members. *Also learned that a
contractor good with my windows and doors was not good with my son's
roof. In first case using all American workers for windows and doors but
all probably illegals on roof.

I would also get job done in one day. *Don't want someone banging on my
roof for a week or having a mess in my yard.

I'd prefer a job done right than a job done fast. One day or two days,
even three, wouldn't bother me as long as they were working on my roof
and not splitting the days on 2 or 3 jobs. I don't care if they only
get 3 *jobs done in a week because they spend extra time of each job.
That's their problem...I'd prefer "slow and steady" as opposed "rush
it and move on".

I did run into a little of the job splitting issue when my roof was
recently done, but it was understandable. My contractor hires a guy to
make his gutters and then my contractor's crew hangs them. It turned
out the the gutter guy ran into a problem and wasn't available when my
guy was ready for him.

He told me what was going on then went around the block to start
another job. 2 days later when the gutter guy was available, he and a
couple of his guys left the other job and came over to hang my
gutters. Stuff happens. No big deal.

I say one day but something unexpected could happen to delay a day.
I've seen roofing jobs done over a period of what seemed like 2 weeks
with only one or two guys working and carrying shingles up a ladder.
You may save a buck, but who wants this aggravation?

Yeah, that's what I meant too. I want my contractor to be a "one gal
at a time" kind of guy if you know what I mean.

I don't care what he did before or what he'll do after, but when he's
dating my roof, I don't want to hear about any side action.


My good window guy, on his last job here showed up minus 2 special
windows that he said he would install later. *My wife made him load up
his truck and told him to come back when he had all the windows to do
the whole job which was done maybe 6 weeks later. *I might have let him
but he wanted to be paid if he did the partial job which is something I
will not do.

Tough lady!

I did my roof myself with the help of my son and my girlfriend. Took two
days. Cost about $750 for materials. I am 63. I carried the material up
the ladder to the roof. Roofers like to take shortcuts. They only have to
stand behind their work for a year. I'll still own the home in 20 years.
The guarrantee on the roofing probably doesn't matter much. Installing it
correctly as per the manufacturers directions matters a lot. You are
talking to sales men. The people doing the work will only care about fast
not quality. A badly installed roof usually performs fine for a year or two
or five.

On 7/20/2012 6:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I'd prefer a job done right than a job done fast. One day or two days,
even three, wouldn't bother me as long as they were working on my roof
and not splitting the days on 2 or 3 jobs. I don't care if they only
get 3 jobs done in a week because they spend extra time of each job.
That's their problem...I'd prefer "slow and steady" as opposed "rush
it and move on".

Excellent point about job splitting that I hadn't considered. I'll add a
clause to the contract (making allowances for unexpected rain).

Thanks,

R1

On 7/20/2012 4:25 PM, Duesenberg wrote:
On 7/20/2012 3:45 PM, Rebel1 wrote:
I've received three estimates to remove two old layers and add a new
layer to my 3400 sq ft roof on a ranch house in central New Jersey.


With C being $1,125 cheaper, seems like a no-brainer to chose them. But
I thank you for your comments on something I may have overlooked, and
whether to bring in a company D and E.



It's nice that company C walked around the roof. I wouldn't let the
late quote bother me too much. Sounds like he priced it like they want
the job esp since they inspected the existing roof

If it takes company C longer than the more expensive quotes, now you
know the cost of the additional labour.

I'd get a second quote from somebody who'll walk the roof or ask for
references from the guys that already gave you a quote. My co-worker
was having trouble finding a reasonable or reliable roofer last year so
I showed him my bill and pictures of the work done on my roof in 2007.

I live an hour away from my co-worker as does my roofer yet my co-worker
called him up and sure enuf the roofer agreed to quote. It was higher
than some others and lower than others as well but they did the deal and
my co-worker was happy as ****. Never underestimate the power of
references. Ask around and see if somebody you know was happy with a
new roof they got.

All of this is my measly two cents worth.

By phone, I asked Company B to supply three references from five years
ago. Being that he picked them (rather than me picking them at random
from a list), all were favorable. Two were repeat customers on various
properties they own; the third was an ordinary homeowner like me, and
satisfied.

I'll take a trip to Company C's office and pick a few references at random.

Thanks,

R1

On 7/20/2012 4:28 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Did either of the GAF guys talk about Deck Armor for use with their
lifetime shingles?

http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Residenti...rotection.aspx

It's my understanding that if they don't use the entire roofing
"system" and aren't certified to install it, the lifetime warranty
won't be honored.

Companies A and C both proposed using Shinglemate as the underlayment.
Company C claims: WE ARE MASTER ELITE CERTIFIED BY GAF CORPORATION.

Thanks for bring my attention to this detail.

R1

On 7/21/2012 9:22 AM, Rebel1 wrote:
On 7/20/2012 4:28 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Did either of the GAF guys talk about Deck Armor for use with their
lifetime shingles?

http://www.gaf.com/Roofing/Residenti...rotection.aspx


It's my understanding that if they don't use the entire roofing
"system" and aren't certified to install it, the lifetime warranty
won't be honored.

Companies A and C both proposed using Shinglemate as the underlayment.
Company C claims: WE ARE MASTER ELITE CERTIFIED BY GAF CORPORATION.

Thanks for bring my attention to this detail.

R1

Wonder what the certification entails? We had a contractor paint our
condo in Florida, used Porter Paint (first choice of contractor). The
old paint job was very badly done, probably wasn't pressure washed or
primed beforehand. An unexpected plus in the deal with Porter Paint was
that they came out and inspected the job at a couple of points,
including when the prep was done. We got the contractor's name from our
neighboring condo assn., and the guy did mostly commercial work like
shopping malls. Did a superb job, and was the low bidder )

On 7/20/2012 4:39 PM, HeyBub wrote:


What do others say?
* The BBB?

I picked B and C because both were BBB Accredited businesses. C has been
a BBB member since 1986; claims to be A rated.

* Homeowners who have used companies A, B, & C, that is, check their
references.

I have to visit C's offices and pick references at random.

* (Believe it or not) the store manager at Home Depot or Lowes?
Hadn't considered that.

* What does A say about B and C, B about A and C, and so on?

I only identified A and C to B. He didn't meanmouth either. He just said
he couldn't meet C's price.

* Your (and other) insurance agents in your town?

Then, too, there are issues which many (not me) think are important:
Licenses, insurance, use of union labor, permits, etc.

The companies pull the permit, which I separately pay for. C says:
"Employees are insured with Workers Comp and General Liability
Insurance." But what if some of the workers are not employees? I'll ask
about this and insist they use employees.

Thanks for the good points.

R1

On 7/20/2012 4:43 PM, wrote:

The only thing I would suggest is to request references of nearby
customers where they have done roofing jobs. Then make sure you
contact and talk to those references. Price is not the only
consideration for a job that should last 20+ years. If the
workmanship is substandard then you've wasted your money. And all too
often the roofing company will go out of business and leave you up the
creek. Also check with your state or local BBB (Better Business
Bureau) to see how these vendors are rated.

Good luck - you'll have to live with your choice for a LONG time.

Company C has been a BBB member since 1986, and is rated A. I'm going to
their office next week to randomly pull references. They are based right
in my hometown.

Thanks,

R1

On 7/20/2012 5:40 PM, Robert Neville wrote:
wrote:

Also check with your state or local BBB (Better Business
Bureau) to see how these vendors are rated.

Company C a member since 1986; rated A. Company B also a member.

You need to do more than that. Almost every state requires companies to have
contractor licenses and workmans comp insurance. You need to ask for proof of
both and then confirm that they are valid with your state licensing agency. You
don't want to be sued because someone fell off your roof.

I'll check this when I visit their office next week.

References can be faked, but talking to the local roofing products supplier
(where the contractors get their material from) is a great way to get
unvarnished reviews. Believe me, they know who the good and bad guys are.

Superb suggestion.

Thanks,

R1

On 7/20/2012 5:51 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:43:53 -0400, wrote:

Also check with your state or local BBB (Better Business
Bureau) to see how these vendors are rated.

Also check the Ten Most Wanted list web site with your state
contractors board, if you have such a site.

Nevada:

North / South

http://www.nvcontractorsboard.com/most_wanted.php

Roofers pose as contractors, but may be on the list of criminals.

I can't find such a list for NJ.

R1

On 7/20/2012 5:12 PM, TomR wrote:
Rebel1 wrote:
I've received three estimates to remove two old layers and add a new
layer to my 3400 sq ft roof on a ranch house in central New Jersey.

Company A: $11,940.00, GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles. Gave estimate
on the spot. Said job would take less than one day. Estimate includes
$700 dumpster charge, and up to three sheets of plywood. (I estimate
that the one soft spot is only 1 foot x 3 feet.) Cricket not
discussed.)
Company B: $9,280, IKO Cambridge AR. Gave estimate on the spot. Said
job would take less than one day. No dumpster; uses company-owned dump
trucks. Up to three sheets of plywood free. If I want GAF shingles,
they would charge an extra $980, bringing the total to $10,260. Price
of building a cricket next to the chimney included.

Company C: $8,575, GAF Timberline Lifetime singles. Came to my house
on Monday, promised an estimate via email in one or two days; it
arrived today, four days later. Each sheet of plywood, $50. Will
probably use a dumpster. Cricket included.

Peripheral stuff like ridge vents, drip edges and replacing plumbing
pipe penetrations with non-rusting aluminum ones are the same with all
three companies. The warranty on the IKO shingles seems better than on
the GAF, but once you read them you see that all contain too many
loopholes and limitations, and just about all shingle manufacturers
are involved in class action lawsuits regarding not honoring their
warranties.
In Company C's favor, aside from the price: He was the only one to
walk on the roof, inspect it and tell me I really didn't need a new
one; there are just portions of one or two shingles missing. Also, his
email proposal was the most professional, with each item specified in
great detail and everything neatly typed in a Word document.

Against Company C: He didn't meet his own deadline for the estimate,
which raises doubt about his trustworthiness; the job would take more
than the one day the other two companies promised, and the dumpster.
(I probably shouldn't be concerned about the dumpster, as it will be
on plywood "feet" to protect my blacktop driveway.)

As I am writing this, Company B called. I asked how C could be so much
lower than B even with the GAF shingles he wants an extra $980 for. B
called back at few minutes later, after checking his figures, and came
back with $9,700 as his best price.

(For the record, HD charges about $100 per square (3 bundles) for the
GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles, and my roof needs 34 bundles. IKO
runs about $84 per bundle if picked up, $88.65 if delivered, and $90
if boomed up. IKO prices are from an Indiana company,
ReeseWholesaler.com. So HD, a retailer, would charge $510 more for
the GAFs.)
With C being $1,125 cheaper, seems like a no-brainer to chose them.
But I thank you for your comments on something I may have overlooked, and
whether to bring in a company D and E.

It sounds like you are doing what you need to do in terms of comparing
companies, prices, what they will do, etc.

Someone mentioned permits. I assume you have already figured that part out,
but if it were me, I would have them get the permit as part of the contract
since they will be the licensed contractor that will be doing the work.

All companies pull the permits, but I separately pay for them.

And, of course, make sure they are insured.

Company C has this statement in their proposal: "Employees are insured
with Workers Comp and General Liability Insurance." I have to make sure
they send only employees and none of the abundant nearby Mexican day
workers.

For a one-day (or two-day) job, make sure that you do not give them a
deposit up front. Let them do the job and then pay them in full as soon as
it is done to your satisfaction. If they are lining up jobs and taking
deposits, those who paid a deposit may be the last to see their job
completed. Once a deposit is paid, there is little incentive for the
contract to actually do the work since he already has his "profit" in hand.

Company C's proposal says: "A deposit is required, additional payment
due at start of job & remaining balance due day of completion." Amount
of deposit is not stated.

Company B says: "Cost of Materials to be paid upon delivery. The
difference to be deducted from the total price of job." No deposit is
required. It doesn't specifically say that balance is due upon completion.

R1

On 7/20/2012 9:36 PM, Pat wrote:
I did my roof myself with the help of my son and my girlfriend. Took
two days. Cost about $750 for materials. I am 63. I carried the
material up the ladder to the roof. Roofers like to take shortcuts.
They only have to stand behind their work for a year. I'll still own
the home in 20 years. The guarrantee on the roofing probably doesn't
matter much. Installing it correctly as per the manufacturers
directions matters a lot. You are talking to sales men. The people
doing the work will only care about fast not quality. A badly installed
roof usually performs fine for a year or two or five.

The project involves removal and disposal of two old layers. At age 74,
I'm not up to that, plus my back would protest at the weight of just a
single bundle of new shingles (73 pounds, and I need 102 bundles to
cover 3400 square feet). The salesman at Company C is also the owner of
the family business, located about four miles from my home.

Companies B and C are both BBB members. Companies A and C are right in
my hometown and have been around a long time. Company B is local; I
don't know how long they've been in business.

R1

Rebel1 wrote:
On 7/20/2012 5:51 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:43:53 -0400, wrote:

Also check with your state or local BBB (Better Business
Bureau) to see how these vendors are rated.

Also check the Ten Most Wanted list web site with your state
contractors board, if you have such a site.

Nevada:

North / South

http://www.nvcontractorsboard.com/most_wanted.php

Roofers pose as contractors, but may be on the list of criminals.

I can't find such a list for NJ.

I am in New Jersey (South Jersey) and I don't know of any such list either.

The only list that I do know of is the State website that lets you search to
verify that the contractor is licensed in New Jersey:

https://newjersey.mylicense.com/verification/ .

Given what you have done so far, I am sure you will find that all 3
companies are licensed in NJ. They would have to be licensed to be able to
get the permit through your town anyway.

I carried half a bundle at a time. I bought my roofing months early on
special so I had to carry it up. Doesn't cost that much extra to have it
delivered to the roof. Can't offer much help about contractors because I
don't use them. Look around for a local guy who doesn't have the overhead
of a business. One guy working out of a pickup. He'll do it for $3000.


The project involves removal and disposal of two old layers. At age 74,
I'm not up to that, plus my back would protest at the weight of just a
single bundle of new shingles (73 pounds, and I need 102 bundles to cover
3400 square feet). The salesman at Company C is also the owner of the
family business, located about four miles from my home.

On 7/21/2012 10:51 AM, TomR wrote:
Rebel1 wrote:
On 7/20/2012 5:51 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jul 2012 16:43:53 -0400, wrote:

Also check with your state or local BBB (Better Business
Bureau) to see how these vendors are rated.

Also check the Ten Most Wanted list web site with your state
contractors board, if you have such a site.

Nevada:

North / South

http://www.nvcontractorsboard.com/most_wanted.php

Roofers pose as contractors, but may be on the list of criminals.

I can't find such a list for NJ.

I am in New Jersey (South Jersey) and I don't know of any such list either.

The only list that I do know of is the State website that lets you search to
verify that the contractor is licensed in New Jersey:

https://newjersey.mylicense.com/verification/ .

Given what you have done so far, I am sure you will find that all 3
companies are licensed in NJ. They would have to be licensed to be able to
get the permit through your town anyway.

You're right, they all have active licenses.

Thanks for the link.

R1

Rebel1 wrote:
On 7/20/2012 5:12 PM, TomR wrote:

And, of course, make sure they are insured.

Company C has this statement in their proposal: "Employees are insured
with Workers Comp and General Liability Insurance." I have to make
sure they send only employees and none of the abundant nearby Mexican
day workers.

The easiest way to verify insurance is to have whoever you pick have their
insurance carrier fax proof of insurance coverage directly to you.
Insurance companies do this all day long and all it takes is for the
contractor to call their insurance company and ask them to fax it to you.
The faxed information will say what type of insurance they have -- liability
and workers comp are the two that they need to have.

The statement that, "Employees are insured with Workers Comp and General
Liability Insurance." is just a little ambiguous in my opinion. The reason
that I mention this is that some roofing companies hire "crews" by the day
as subcontractors, and supposedly those subcontractors/"employees" are
supposed to have their own workers comp insurance coverage. I would want to
be sure that the company you hire to do the work has their own workers comp
insurance and is not relying on workers or subs who have their own workers
comp insurance. Workers comp insurance for roofing companies is VERY high
in New Jersey, so roofing companies often look for ways around having to pay
that themselves. However, it is true that in New Jersey any contractor with
a Home Improvement Contractor license and who ahs or hires employees is
required to have workers comp insurance coverage.

Personally, I would not worry too much about who they have doing their work
as long as they have liability insurance and workers comp insurance. It
wouldn't matter to me what their nationality is, with one exception. I
would want the roofing company to assure me that at least one crew chief or
person who is managing the job will be on site the whole time and is someone
who speaks fluent English. I have had 3 complete new roof jobs done over
the past few years. For various reasons, I ended up using a different
company for each one (due to the availability of the prior contractors
and/or price, and not any problem with the work that the prior contractors
did). The person who ended up doing the second roof made a point of telling
me that there would be an experienced English speaking crew chief on the job
site the whole time. I was a little surprised by that statement, but he did
do what he said. That made it very easy as the work was being done to
coordinate everything and go over any questions or concerns while the work
was being done.

On the third roof job, I didn't even think to ask about that, and I did
expect that the person I was talking to was going to be on site the whole
time during the roof job. As it turned out, he went off and was overseeing
another job and I was left with and entire crew that spoke only Spanish with
the exception of one person who spoke a little English. That was a mess.
There were things we needed to work out as the job was being done and the
communication was a nightmare. In the end, it all worked out okay and the
final job was done to my satisfaction, but it was definitely a problem along
the way. This last roof was a long and complicated story and I wouldn't do
that one again with the same company etc. The other two companies were
local and reliable and had an English experienced crew chief on the job, and
those jobs went very smoothly.


For a one-day (or two-day) job, make sure that you do not give them a
deposit up front. Let them do the job and then pay them in full as
soon as it is done to your satisfaction. If they are lining up jobs
and taking deposits, those who paid a deposit may be the last to see
their job completed. Once a deposit is paid, there is little
incentive for the contract to actually do the work since he already
has his "profit" in hand.

Company C's proposal says: "A deposit is required, additional payment
due at start of job & remaining balance due day of completion." Amount
of deposit is not stated.

Company B says: "Cost of Materials to be paid upon delivery. The
difference to be deducted from the total price of job." No deposit is
required. It doesn't specifically say that balance is due upon
completion.

Personally, I wouldn't do a deposit -- period. And, I definitely wouldn't
do a deposit, and then an additional payment at the start of the job, on a
one or two day job like this.

In some case, particularly for a smaller company or person that is just
getting underway, I may consider paying for the materials upon delivery.
But, in those cases, I would usually work out with them that I would go with
them when they order the materials and we would order them in my name, with
delivery to me at my address, and I would pay for and then own the
materials.

But, again, for a one or two day job, I would try to avoid doing that.
Still, I can understand that some contractors do not want to have to front
the cost of materials themselves -- as long as all we are talking about is
the actual materials only, and when they are delivered I own them.

On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 11:47:23 -0400, "TomR" wrote:




Personally, I wouldn't do a deposit -- period. And, I definitely wouldn't
do a deposit, and then an additional payment at the start of the job, on a
one or two day job like this.


No deposit, no work for you. I'll be damned if I'm going to lay out
money for materials and bring my equipment and labor and show up to
find you've changed your mind. Easy to do since you have no financial
commitment.

Yes, there are sleazy, dishonest contractors, but there are many
sleazy, dishonest buyers too.

Company C's proposal says: "A deposit is required, additional payment
due at start of job & remaining balance due day of completion." Amount
of deposit is not stated.

Company B says: "Cost of Materials to be paid upon delivery. The
difference to be deducted from the total price of job." No deposit is
required. It doesn't specifically say that balance is due upon completion.

R1
Hmmm,
If you sign a contract, really you don't have to pay anything in advance
as long as you pay the invoice within a month after job is done
properly. Contractors in good standing has one month revolving account
from supply house. Also no local roofer's association? Members usually
have good track record. BBB? they don't have any legal tooth so they are
pretty useless if something happens needing resolution. You can use lien
hold back holding part of payment from the total invoiced amount
for certain period if the job i quite big involving large sum of money.

When I had my roof redone with ceramic coated meal tiles made in
Germany, work crew was from Ukraine who was familiar with this
particular product. 2 guys took 2 weeks and they worked like ants. I
could't see when they are taking break or eating lumch, just looked like
non-stop working. They were practicing safety precautions as it should
on 2 story house. At the end I treated them to a nice dinner at
neighborhood restaurant to appreciate their work. Then I paid full
invoice amount in certified check(~25K). This roof will last much beyond
my life time I am sure value of house invcreased somewhat as a result.

Since I found out those two kids are nephews of contractor who were
brought in from his old country. He told me they are the best workers
he had. I was lucky to have them.

On 7/21/2012 10:40 AM, Rebel1 wrote:
On 7/20/2012 9:36 PM, Pat wrote:
I did my roof myself with the help of my son and my girlfriend. Took
two days. Cost about $750 for materials. I am 63. I carried the
material up the ladder to the roof. Roofers like to take shortcuts.
They only have to stand behind their work for a year. I'll still own
the home in 20 years. The guarrantee on the roofing probably doesn't
matter much. Installing it correctly as per the manufacturers
directions matters a lot. You are talking to sales men. The people
doing the work will only care about fast not quality. A badly installed
roof usually performs fine for a year or two or five.

The project involves removal and disposal of two old layers. At age 74,
I'm not up to that, plus my back would protest at the weight of just a
single bundle of new shingles (73 pounds, and I need 102 bundles to
cover 3400 square feet). The salesman at Company C is also the owner of
the family business, located about four miles from my home.

Companies B and C are both BBB members. Companies A and C are right in
my hometown and have been around a long time. Company B is local; I
don't know how long they've been in business.

R1


I'm about your age and one of the things I've stopped doing is climbing
on the roof

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 11:47:23 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

Personally, I wouldn't do a deposit -- period. And, I definitely
wouldn't do a deposit, and then an additional payment at the start
of the job, on a one or two day job like this.

No deposit, no work for you. I'll be damned if I'm going to lay out
money for materials and bring my equipment and labor and show up to
find you've changed your mind. Easy to do since you have no financial
commitment.

Yes, there are sleazy, dishonest contractors, but there are many
sleazy, dishonest buyers too.

I understand what you are saying. This conversation comes up often,
sometimes here, but more often in other forums that I participate in --
mostly real estate investor groups with people who hire contractors all the
time.

Both sides have a point, and both sides have issues. In the past, I have
been the victim of contractors who were apparently better and more efficient
at taking deposits than in actually showing up and doing the work. In one
case, I was one of many people who ended up having to testify in a grand
jury investigation since the same contractor had done this to many people.
He was found guilty, but I never got my deposit back and he and his company
had no assets or income that I could collect on.

As a homeowner or property owner where the work is going to be done, I do
have a financial commitment in the fact that if I breach the contract and it
costs the contractor money, he/she can go after my fixed assets, attach my
income, etc. Of course, no contractor wants to be in the business of trying
to collect what is owed to them from a homeowner or property owner.

On the other hand, some (many) contractors operate as an entity which may or
may not have any assets and, in fact, may be insolvent or bankrupt. So, if
I give them a cash deposit up front, and they don't show up to do the work,
they may not have any assets or income for me to try to go after to get my
money back.

That's primarily, but not entirely, why I would not be willing to give a
cash deposit up front to a contractor.

However, I did say that I would consider (in some circumstances) paying for
the materials either directly to the supplier and having them delivered to
me in my name, or possibly to the contractor when they are delivered to me.
I am sure that you know that some contractors actually do a job and get paid
by the homeowner or property owner, but never paid their supplier for the
materials that they bought for the job using their trade credit. In those
case, the job could be done and over with and the contractor long gone, and
the supplier can sometimes go after the homeowner or property owner to try
to collect the cost of the materials.

Also, if a contractor buys say $3,000 of materials and shows up to do the
work, and the homeowner or property owner (who signed a contract) suddenly
"changes their mind" or says they don't have the money to pay for the
materials or the work, at least the contractor can return the materials.

And, yes, the contractor will have lined up a crew and brought equipment to
the job, and may have ordered and had a dumpster delivered to the site.
But, again, if those costs result in a loss to the contractor -- even though
no work was ever done on the job -- the contractor can take the homeowner or
property owner to small claims court, get a judgment, and put a lien on the
property and/or garnish the wages of the customer. And, while that is
certainly an undesirable outcome, at least the contractor has a means of
recovering his damages.

But, if I give a contractor a cash deposit up front with nothing securing
that money, I may have no way of ever getting my money back if the
contractor is a no-show.

On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:54:28 -0400, Frank
wrote:

On 7/21/2012 10:40 AM, Rebel1 wrote:
On 7/20/2012 9:36 PM, Pat wrote:
I did my roof myself with the help of my son and my girlfriend. Took
two days. Cost about $750 for materials. I am 63. I carried the
material up the ladder to the roof. Roofers like to take shortcuts.
They only have to stand behind their work for a year. I'll still own
the home in 20 years. The guarrantee on the roofing probably doesn't
matter much. Installing it correctly as per the manufacturers
directions matters a lot. You are talking to sales men. The people
doing the work will only care about fast not quality. A badly installed
roof usually performs fine for a year or two or five.

The project involves removal and disposal of two old layers. At age 74,
I'm not up to that, plus my back would protest at the weight of just a
single bundle of new shingles (73 pounds, and I need 102 bundles to
cover 3400 square feet). The salesman at Company C is also the owner of
the family business, located about four miles from my home.

Companies B and C are both BBB members. Companies A and C are right in
my hometown and have been around a long time. Company B is local; I
don't know how long they've been in business.

R1


I'm about your age and one of the things I've stopped doing is climbing
on the roof

I stopped climbing on the roof when the pitch went over 8:12 (the one above me
is 15:12). ;-)

I don't like climbing on roofs either, though I did get on the back porch roof
to replace some soffit vents that popped out. The rest I was able to get to
with a ladder.

On Saturday, July 21, 2012 1:28:52 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:54:28 -0400, Frank >
wrote:

>On 7/21/2012 10:40 AM, Rebel1 wrote:
>> On 7/20/2012 9:36 PM, Pat wrote:
>>> I did my roof myself with the help of my son and my girlfriend. Took
>>> two days. Cost about $750 for materials. I am 63. I carried the
>>> material up the ladder to the roof. Roofers like to take shortcuts.
>>> They only have to stand behind their work for a year. I'll still own
>>> the home in 20 years. The guarrantee on the roofing probably doesn't
>>> matter much. Installing it correctly as per the manufacturers
>>> directions matters a lot. You are talking to sales men. The people
>>> doing the work will only care about fast not quality. A badly installed
>>> roof usually performs fine for a year or two or five.
>>
>> The project involves removal and disposal of two old layers. At age 74,
>> I'm not up to that, plus my back would protest at the weight of just a
>> single bundle of new shingles (73 pounds, and I need 102 bundles to
>> cover 3400 square feet). The salesman at Company C is also the owner of
>> the family business, located about four miles from my home.
>>
>> Companies B and C are both BBB members. Companies A and C are right in
>> my hometown and have been around a long time. Company B is local; I
>> don't know how long they've been in business.
>>
>> R1
>>
>
>I'm about your age and one of the things I've stopped doing is climbing
>on the roof

I stopped climbing on the roof when the pitch went over 8:12 (the one above me
is 15:12). ;-)

I don't like climbing on roofs either, though I did get on the back porch roof
to replace some soffit vents that popped out. The rest I was able to get to
with a ladder.

I am 55 and dont enjoy climbing, worse i now have a bad knee from a fall on my sidewalk, and its getting worse

Although I am sure its a mixed bag there MAY be advantages to contracting with home depot or lowes for a roof. even if a problem shows up years later they will still be around

although i have had some roof work done by a friend who is a roofing pro and a nearby neighbor.. i trust him, and watched him add a 2nd story to his home. It turned out great....

On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 11:43:57 -0700 (PDT), bob haller wrote:

On Saturday, July 21, 2012 1:28:52 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 12:54:28 -0400, Frank >
wrote:

>On 7/21/2012 10:40 AM, Rebel1 wrote:
>> On 7/20/2012 9:36 PM, Pat wrote:
>>> I did my roof myself with the help of my son and my girlfriend. Took
>>> two days. Cost about $750 for materials. I am 63. I carried the
>>> material up the ladder to the roof. Roofers like to take shortcuts.
>>> They only have to stand behind their work for a year. I'll still own
>>> the home in 20 years. The guarrantee on the roofing probably doesn't
>>> matter much. Installing it correctly as per the manufacturers
>>> directions matters a lot. You are talking to sales men. The people
>>> doing the work will only care about fast not quality. A badly installed
>>> roof usually performs fine for a year or two or five.
>>
>> The project involves removal and disposal of two old layers. At age 74,
>> I'm not up to that, plus my back would protest at the weight of just a
>> single bundle of new shingles (73 pounds, and I need 102 bundles to
>> cover 3400 square feet). The salesman at Company C is also the owner of
>> the family business, located about four miles from my home.
>>
>> Companies B and C are both BBB members. Companies A and C are right in
>> my hometown and have been around a long time. Company B is local; I
>> don't know how long they've been in business.
>>
>> R1
>>
>
>I'm about your age and one of the things I've stopped doing is climbing
>on the roof

I stopped climbing on the roof when the pitch went over 8:12 (the one above me
is 15:12). ;-)

I don't like climbing on roofs either, though I did get on the back porch roof
to replace some soffit vents that popped out. The rest I was able to get to
with a ladder.

I am 55 and dont enjoy climbing, worse i now have a bad knee from a fall on my sidewalk, and its getting worse

I'll be 60 in a couple of months. I have two bad knees and two worse
feet/ankles (mildish RA). I don't like climbing either but what ya' gonna do?
Although I am sure its a mixed bag there MAY be advantages to contracting
with home depot or lowes for a roof. even if a problem shows up years later
they will still be around

I'm certainly not going to do a roof again. They earn their money. I don't
think I'd go with Lowes or Home Depot, either. I see Sears does roofs. ;-)

although i have had some roof work done by a friend who is a roofing pro and a nearby neighbor.. i trust him, and watched him add a 2nd story to his home. It turned out great....

That seems to be the best option.

"Rebel1" wrote in message
...
I've received three estimates to remove two old layers and add a new
layer to my 3400 sq ft roof on a ranch house in central New Jersey.

Company A: $11,940.00, GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles. Gave estimate on
the spot. Said job would take less than one day. Estimate includes $700
dumpster charge, and up to three sheets of plywood. (I estimate that the
one soft spot is only 1 foot x 3 feet.) Cricket not discussed.)

Company B: $9,280, IKO Cambridge AR. Gave estimate on the spot. Said job
would take less than one day. No dumpster; uses company-owned dump
trucks. Up to three sheets of plywood free. If I want GAF shingles, they
would charge an extra $980, bringing the total to $10,260. Price of
building a cricket next to the chimney included.

Company C: $8,575, GAF Timberline Lifetime singles. Came to my house on
Monday, promised an estimate via email in one or two days; it arrived
today, four days later. Each sheet of plywood, $50. Will probably use a
dumpster. Cricket included.

Peripheral stuff like ridge vents, drip edges and replacing plumbing pipe
penetrations with non-rusting aluminum ones are the same with all three
companies. The warranty on the IKO shingles seems better than on the GAF,
but once you read them you see that all contain too many loopholes and
limitations, and just about all shingle manufacturers are involved in
class action lawsuits regarding not honoring their warranties.

In Company C's favor, aside from the price: He was the only one to walk
on the roof, inspect it and tell me I really didn't need a new one; there
are just portions of one or two shingles missing. Also, his email
proposal was the most professional, with each item specified in great
detail and everything neatly typed in a Word document.

Against Company C: He didn't meet his own deadline for the estimate,
which raises doubt about his trustworthiness; the job would take more
than the one day the other two companies promised, and the dumpster. (I
probably shouldn't be concerned about the dumpster, as it will be on
plywood "feet" to protect my blacktop driveway.)

As I am writing this, Company B called. I asked how C could be so much
lower than B even with the GAF shingles he wants an extra $980 for. B
called back at few minutes later, after checking his figures, and came
back with $9,700 as his best price.

(For the record, HD charges about $100 per square (3 bundles) for the GAF
Timberline Lifetime shingles, and my roof needs 34 bundles. IKO runs
about $84 per bundle if picked up, $88.65 if delivered, and $90 if boomed
up. IKO prices are from an Indiana company, ReeseWholesaler.com. So HD, a
retailer, would charge $510 more for the GAFs.)

With C being $1,125 cheaper, seems like a no-brainer to chose them. But I
thank you for your comments on something I may have overlooked, and
whether to bring in a company D and E

Red flags on companies A&B. Up to "3" sheets of plywood. Exactly how much
are they going to refund if they don't use any? Or, just 1 or 2 sheets?
The sheathing used should be spelled out by even company "C". Something
like " 1/2" 4 ply, or 3 ply ( which you don't want), or 1/2" OSB. Also,
any company replacing wood should set the old wood off to the side, so
there is no question about how much was used. Don't let anyone piece meal
in plywood, like you say 1x3 area. Use the entire sheet. Anything about
plywood clips?

I'd want specified length of nails, believe it or not, it's a way to cut
costs. Also, for any hip/ridge cap, being a laminated covering, I'd want
the correct cap. I've seen enough people buy 3 tab 20 year, and cap a 40 yr
shingle.

Aside from everything, prices sure are high in your area.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 11:47:23 -0400, "TomR" wrote:




Personally, I wouldn't do a deposit -- period. And, I definitely
wouldn't
do a deposit, and then an additional payment at the start of the job, on
a
one or two day job like this.


No deposit, no work for you. I'll be damned if I'm going to lay out
money for materials and bring my equipment and labor and show up to
find you've changed your mind. Easy to do since you have no financial
commitment.

Yes, there are sleazy, dishonest contractors, but there are many
sleazy, dishonest buyers too.

I agree. When I was in the contracting business, some potential customers
wouldn't want to put money down. We were hooked up with a couple different
banks, and offered financing. If the potential customer would shy away
from financing, I'd bid them farewell, and to have a good day.

We had to only place a lien once, and that's when we decided to hook up
with financing options. In other words, we learned a lesson since a lien
means squat, except if someone wants to use it for collateral or it is to
be sold.

On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 11:43:57 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:



Although I am sure its a mixed bag there MAY be advantages to contracting with home depot or lowes for a roof. even if a problem shows up years later they will still be around


Plenty of people have had big problems with HD and Lowes. I'd trust
itinerants recruited at a local bar before those guys.

On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 10:31:30 -0400, Rebel1
wrote:

On 7/20/2012 5:12 PM, TomR wrote:
Rebel1 wrote:
I've received three estimates to remove two old layers and add a new
layer to my 3400 sq ft roof on a ranch house in central New Jersey.

Company A: $11,940.00, GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles. Gave estimate
on the spot. Said job would take less than one day. Estimate includes
$700 dumpster charge, and up to three sheets of plywood. (I estimate
that the one soft spot is only 1 foot x 3 feet.) Cricket not
discussed.)
Company B: $9,280, IKO Cambridge AR. Gave estimate on the spot. Said
job would take less than one day. No dumpster; uses company-owned dump
trucks. Up to three sheets of plywood free. If I want GAF shingles,
they would charge an extra $980, bringing the total to $10,260. Price
of building a cricket next to the chimney included.

Company C: $8,575, GAF Timberline Lifetime singles. Came to my house
on Monday, promised an estimate via email in one or two days; it
arrived today, four days later. Each sheet of plywood, $50. Will
probably use a dumpster. Cricket included.

Peripheral stuff like ridge vents, drip edges and replacing plumbing
pipe penetrations with non-rusting aluminum ones are the same with all
three companies. The warranty on the IKO shingles seems better than on
the GAF, but once you read them you see that all contain too many
loopholes and limitations, and just about all shingle manufacturers
are involved in class action lawsuits regarding not honoring their
warranties.
In Company C's favor, aside from the price: He was the only one to
walk on the roof, inspect it and tell me I really didn't need a new
one; there are just portions of one or two shingles missing. Also, his
email proposal was the most professional, with each item specified in
great detail and everything neatly typed in a Word document.

Against Company C: He didn't meet his own deadline for the estimate,
which raises doubt about his trustworthiness; the job would take more
than the one day the other two companies promised, and the dumpster.
(I probably shouldn't be concerned about the dumpster, as it will be
on plywood "feet" to protect my blacktop driveway.)

As I am writing this, Company B called. I asked how C could be so much
lower than B even with the GAF shingles he wants an extra $980 for. B
called back at few minutes later, after checking his figures, and came
back with $9,700 as his best price.

(For the record, HD charges about $100 per square (3 bundles) for the
GAF Timberline Lifetime shingles, and my roof needs 34 bundles. IKO
runs about $84 per bundle if picked up, $88.65 if delivered, and $90
if boomed up. IKO prices are from an Indiana company,
ReeseWholesaler.com. So HD, a retailer, would charge $510 more for
the GAFs.)
With C being $1,125 cheaper, seems like a no-brainer to chose them.
But I thank you for your comments on something I may have overlooked, and
whether to bring in a company D and E.

It sounds like you are doing what you need to do in terms of comparing
companies, prices, what they will do, etc.

Someone mentioned permits. I assume you have already figured that part out,
but if it were me, I would have them get the permit as part of the contract
since they will be the licensed contractor that will be doing the work.

All companies pull the permits, but I separately pay for them.

And, of course, make sure they are insured.

Company C has this statement in their proposal: "Employees are insured
with Workers Comp and General Liability Insurance." I have to make sure
they send only employees and none of the abundant nearby Mexican day
workers.

For a one-day (or two-day) job, make sure that you do not give them a
deposit up front. Let them do the job and then pay them in full as soon as
it is done to your satisfaction. If they are lining up jobs and taking
deposits, those who paid a deposit may be the last to see their job
completed. Once a deposit is paid, there is little incentive for the
contract to actually do the work since he already has his "profit" in hand.

Company C's proposal says: "A deposit is required, additional payment
due at start of job & remaining balance due day of completion." Amount
of deposit is not stated.

Company B says: "Cost of Materials to be paid upon delivery. The
difference to be deducted from the total price of job." No deposit is
required. It doesn't specifically say that balance is due upon completion.

R1


"Cost of Materials to be paid upon delivery. The difference to be
deducted from the total price of job" generally indicates cash-flow
problems. 15% to 25% deposit is fair.

On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 10:38:48 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:



Company C's proposal says: "A deposit is required, additional payment
due at start of job & remaining balance due day of completion." Amount
of deposit is not stated.

Company B says: "Cost of Materials to be paid upon delivery. The
difference to be deducted from the total price of job." No deposit is
required. It doesn't specifically say that balance is due upon completion.

R1
Hmmm,
If you sign a contract, really you don't have to pay anything in advance
as long as you pay the invoice within a month after job is done
properly.


That depends entirely on the contract. Some contracts state clearly
balance to be pain immediately on successfull completion of the job.
Some contracts stipulate a "good will deposit" is required - and the
amount is stipulated - either dollar amount or percentage of contract.

Contractors in good standing has one month revolving account
from supply house. Also no local roofer's association? Members usually
have good track record. BBB? they don't have any legal tooth so they are
pretty useless if something happens needing resolution. You can use lien
hold back holding part of payment from the total invoiced amount
for certain period if the job i quite big involving large sum of money.

When I had my roof redone with ceramic coated meal tiles made in
Germany, work crew was from Ukraine who was familiar with this
particular product. 2 guys took 2 weeks and they worked like ants. I
could't see when they are taking break or eating lumch, just looked like
non-stop working. They were practicing safety precautions as it should
on 2 story house. At the end I treated them to a nice dinner at
neighborhood restaurant to appreciate their work. Then I paid full
invoice amount in certified check(~25K). This roof will last much beyond
my life time I am sure value of house invcreased somewhat as a result.

Since I found out those two kids are nephews of contractor who were
brought in from his old country. He told me they are the best workers
he had. I was lucky to have them.