On 3/6/2012 9:11 PM, Norminn wrote:
On 3/6/2012 5:25 PM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
On 3/6/2012 2:11 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 3/6/2012 9:08 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
I write in hope of some serious answers. I know this general issue
has come up before, and wading through the incredulous and the trolls
doing a search yields nothing that seems likely to work. Maybe there
is nothing; if not, so be it.
We just moved into our new home after over 7 months of renovations.
The problem is cigarette smoke from one of our neighbors.
This is an attached house, with a party wall (concrete). (attached on
the other side too, separate construction, not a problem.
When the walls were open, I was not aware of any plumbing coming
directly from the smoking neighbor. There are cabinets mounted in our
kitchen on the party wall. Holes were cut in the cabinet backs to
accommodate some drainage and steam pipes (ours), and there is an
opening around our plumbing which we will seal off. We don't know
what might be the best way to do this, and I have no idea if it will
work (though the cigarette smoke is strongest in these cabinets.
This does appear to be coming through the walls--somehow, and not
through vents to the outside. This is old construction (c. 1940).
There is no question that there is cigarette smoke. It's not nearly
as big a problem for me (my sense of smell was never the same since
organic chemistry), but my wife is very upset.
I'm quite sure I have no legal recourse, and in any case wouldn't
expect my neighbor to modify his smoking on my behalf. Really just
interested to know if anyone has dealt with some mechanical means of
dealing with this problem that was effective.

TIA,
cut
To start with, produce some positive pressure in your
home, to stop the polluted air from coming into the house.
A ventilator sucking outside air would do that.

Several people have mentioned this, and it makes sense. Especially given
the (non) winter we've had here.

Thanks,
Steve


One simple measure that comes to mind is weatherstripping around
doors...are entrances close to each other, such that your exhaust fan
could pull air from their residence that way?


Entrances ARE close to each other, and doors leading to the back yard
are fairly close too. But I'm pretty sure it's not coming in that way,
except through the walls--and as others have pointed out, running the
exhaust fan (which we do very sparingly) could be creating a negative
net pressure and encouraging leakage through the wall. But we haven't
been using the exhaust fans much at all.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On 3/6/2012 9:42 PM, bob haller wrote:
On Mar 6, 9:11 pm, wrote:
On 3/6/2012 5:25 PM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:





On 3/6/2012 2:11 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 3/6/2012 9:08 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
I write in hope of some serious answers. I know this general issue
has come up before, and wading through the incredulous and the trolls
doing a search yields nothing that seems likely to work. Maybe there
is nothing; if not, so be it.
We just moved into our new home after over 7 months of renovations.
The problem is cigarette smoke from one of our neighbors.
This is an attached house, with a party wall (concrete). (attached on
the other side too, separate construction, not a problem.
When the walls were open, I was not aware of any plumbing coming
directly from the smoking neighbor. There are cabinets mounted in our
kitchen on the party wall. Holes were cut in the cabinet backs to
accommodate some drainage and steam pipes (ours), and there is an
opening around our plumbing which we will seal off. We don't know
what might be the best way to do this, and I have no idea if it will
work (though the cigarette smoke is strongest in these cabinets.
This does appear to be coming through the walls--somehow, and not
through vents to the outside. This is old construction (c. 1940).
There is no question that there is cigarette smoke. It's not nearly
as big a problem for me (my sense of smell was never the same since
organic chemistry), but my wife is very upset.
I'm quite sure I have no legal recourse, and in any case wouldn't
expect my neighbor to modify his smoking on my behalf. Really just
interested to know if anyone has dealt with some mechanical means of
dealing with this problem that was effective.

TIA,
cut
To start with, produce some positive pressure in your
home, to stop the polluted air from coming into the house.
A ventilator sucking outside air would do that.

Several people have mentioned this, and it makes sense. Especially given
the (non) winter we've had here.

Thanks,
Steve

One simple measure that comes to mind is weatherstripping around
doors...are entrances close to each other, such that your exhaust fan
could pull air from their residence that way?

Probably best to open the common wall inspect for holes which could
provide a fire path, and spray foam everything with closed cell foam.
this would cut your heating bills too. R6.4 per inch


When the wall was open, there were no visible holes. We DID want our
contractor to insulate the wall. Ironically, our intent was noise
abatement, not smoke. But ultimately it wasn't done.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On 3/7/2012 9:00 AM, Hank wrote:
On Mar 6, 10:54 pm, The Daring
wrote:


I'm deathly allergic to tobacco smoke and most people refuse to believe
that I can tell if the car in front of me on the freeway contains a
smoker. That poison is like pepper spray to me. What kind of an idiot
purposely inhales the byproducts of combustion? o_O

TDD

I never heard of anybody dying from an allergy to cigarette smoke. I
couldn't find any link to that info. Got a link?

Hank


Neither have I, (though it seems strange at this late date to have to
prove that smoking is unhealthy).
A quick search turned up articles, mostly in journals that require
registration or subscription payment to view. Most focus on infants and
elderly. One dealt with contact dermatitis in response to cigarette smoke.
But the bigger problem (and the one that seems to be documented) deal
not with direct allergy, but exacerbation of illness in people who have
medical conditions (eg. triggering asthma attacks which may be
life-threatening, people with cardiopulmonary disease, etc.).
I sometimes start to feel sympathetic to smokers, who it seems these
days can't indulge their habit almost anywhere. But the rapidly
increasing body of evidence of health effects of second-hand smoke are
making this more than a simple situation of personal freedom.
I've certainly inhaled my share of second-hand smoke. My dad smoked
heavily for about 35 years. I remember getting carsick as a kid as he
smoked while driving. Although he is still living, he has lost a lobe
of his right lung to cancer.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On 3/7/2012 5:08 AM, Hank wrote:
On Mar 6, 3:03 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Hank, they are trying to keep the cig smoke out, not make their own!

I used that as an example. Anything that can produce a little smoke
will find the problem.

Another thought that was touched on by another poster is the range
vent. When teh range vent is running, it creates a negative pressure,
thereby POSSIBLY pulling air in thru the small cracks and openings
from the wall.

For a 100% sure fix................ buy a house and not a apt./
condo. :-)

Hank


Actually, it IS a house--in NYC, many houses are attached or
semi-attached. Ironically, we moved from a condo apartment (we
sometimes had problems with noise there, but not smoke).

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On 3/6/2012 5:58 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Sometimes, cheaper isn't better. But, it does sound closer, which is also
important.

Please keep us up to date. I hope this works out well, for both of you.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Steven wrote in message
...

We have someone cheaper and closer. That may be part of the problem.

Steve



Thanks, Chris. Smell yesterday evening wasn't too bad. Wife actually
said she "might get used to it". I don't believe it for a second.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On 3/6/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:
Have you tried OZONE shocking the room and cabinets?


Ozone can be pretty irritating. I looked at the Consumer Reports
website--they specifically named a couple of ozone-generating air
purifiers "not acceptable" based on ozone being an irritant, and
potentially unsafe (though I think primarily a problem for people with
pre-existing lung disease.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On Mar 7, 10:09*am, Steven Bornfeld
wrote:


For a 100% sure fix................ buy a house and not a apt./
condo. :-)

Hank

* * * * Actually, it IS a house--in NYC, many houses are attached or
semi-attached. *Ironically, we moved from a condo apartment (we
sometimes had problems with noise there, but not smoke).

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDShttp://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Well, since it is in NYC, all bets are off. :-)

Hank

Steven Bornfeld wrote in news:jj7tv2$8jg$4
@dont-email.me:

On 3/6/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:
Have you tried OZONE shocking the room and cabinets?


Ozone can be pretty irritating. I looked at the Consumer Reports
website--they specifically named a couple of ozone-generating air
purifiers "not acceptable" based on ozone being an irritant, and
potentially unsafe (though I think primarily a problem for people with
pre-existing lung disease.

Steve

Ozone is a strong oxidant, and a gas. That's how it destroys odors, and
also why it is an irritant, especially for the lungs. If your wifeis
allergic to cigarette smoke, ozone might NOT be very good for her, unless
the ozone is left to react with the smoke and then immediately exhausted.

If I were you, I'd stay away from ozone.

There are only 2 solutions apart from and in addition to identify how the
cigarette smoke gets into YOUR house:
1. Overpressure insideyour hopuse using really fresh air
2. An activated carbon filter at the site of entry of the smoke.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 3/6/2012 9:05 PM, Duesenberg wrote:
Hee are some ideas:

Shared dryer vents?

No

Shared Stove top cooking vents?

No

Shared plumbing stack venting? unlikely but if there is one missing
missing trap on one sink somewhere and the plumbing venting is shared
then air may be able to travel...

Hmmm--not sure about this. I'm thinking I would have seen this when the
walls were open. Might have to ask the plumber about this

Chimney sharing?

No.

Light fixtures on the ceiling? check for air leaks, it's a stretch but
worth a try.

I rather doubt it, but--other than seeing smoke coming out, it sounds
like major demolition to determine it.

Somebody mentioned electrical outlets

Interestingly, we have some metering for several of the houses on our
block with our utilities, in a locked box that Con Ed has access to.
However, I generally don't smell cigarette smoke in there, so it seems
unlikely.


how about attic access doors??? silicone seal the cracks in the attic
door access to stop airflow and if you ever need access back into the
attic, it's easy to cut and reapply new sealant

There is no attic. However, there is a dead space between the top floor
ceiling and roof. I suppose it's possible, but also sounds like a major
job to determine--and in any case the problem is primarily downstairs on
the living floor.

Something between the garages?

No, the garages are not adjoining.

Central vaccuum venting? or collection tank?

No central vaccuum

Air moving between the floor joists?

This sounds possible, for sure. Again, it sounds like a big job--hope
I'm not driven to this level of desperation. But while we only dug up
the concrete floor on the basement level (for plumbing), it still would
have been easier to check during the demolition. The renovations were
pretty extensive, but it was by no means a gut renovation.
Thanks for all the suggestions--I'll certainly keep them in mind. Will
pursue them if I feel we have to, but we're rather tapped out
financially by now.

Steve



--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On 3/6/2012 11:45 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Quit before you get to tooth brush sharing.

Comedy aside, that's a good list to check.

Comedy back on. Steve, ask the people next door to light a couple dozen
smoke bombs, so you can see where it's coming through. They won't mind.

Actually, if I knew the guy a little better I might even ask this.
It's nutty enough that it might actually work.

Steve


Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message
...
Hee are some ideas:

Shared dryer vents?

Shared Stove top cooking vents?

Shared plumbing stack venting? unlikely but if there is one missing
missing trap on one sink somewhere and the plumbing venting is shared
then air may be able to travel...

Chimney sharing?

Light fixtures on the ceiling? check for air leaks, it's a stretch but
worth a try.

Somebody mentioned electrical outlets

how about attic access doors??? silicone seal the cracks in the attic
door access to stop airflow and if you ever need access back into the
attic, it's easy to cut and reapply new sealant

Something between the garages?

Central vaccuum venting? or collection tank?

Air moving between the floor joists?





--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On 3/7/2012 8:54 AM, Hank wrote:

wrote in message


Shared dryer vents?


They don't even have to be shared. Anytime the dryer is running, it
creates a negative pressure which sucks air in from every little crack
and crevice.

Hank


Good point. In fact, last night wasn't so bad--and we didn't do any
laundry. The night before we had--and the smell was far worse.
Hmmmm....

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On 3/6/2012 9:50 PM, Vic Smith wrote:

Since you can't smell it, I'd try to confirm there is actually a
smell. You wife's smell might be off.

Far be it for me to say that my wife is "off". No, there's a smell,
alright. It does bother her more than it does me.

Steve


If she's a rabid anti-smoker, just seeing somebody smoking downwind
and 100 yards away can cause her to smell cigarette smoke,
You got good advice except for that omission.
I'd go for positive pressure first.
If that doesn't do it, the smell is old stuff that hasn't been sealed.
Or in her olfactory imagination.

--Vic




--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On 3/7/2012 7:29 AM, Norminn wrote:
On 3/6/2012 9:50 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 12:08:41 -0500, Steven Bornfeld
wrote:

I write in hope of some serious answers. I know this general issue has
come up before, and wading through the incredulous and the trolls doing
a search yields nothing that seems likely to work. Maybe there is
nothing; if not, so be it.
We just moved into our new home after over 7 months of renovations. The
problem is cigarette smoke from one of our neighbors.
This is an attached house, with a party wall (concrete). (attached on
the other side too, separate construction, not a problem.
When the walls were open, I was not aware of any plumbing coming
directly from the smoking neighbor. There are cabinets mounted in our
kitchen on the party wall. Holes were cut in the cabinet backs to
accommodate some drainage and steam pipes (ours), and there is an
opening around our plumbing which we will seal off. We don't know what
might be the best way to do this, and I have no idea if it will work
(though the cigarette smoke is strongest in these cabinets.
This does appear to be coming through the walls--somehow, and not
through vents to the outside. This is old construction (c. 1940).
There is no question that there is cigarette smoke. It's not nearly as
big a problem for me (my sense of smell was never the same since organic
chemistry), but my wife is very upset.
I'm quite sure I have no legal recourse, and in any case wouldn't expect
my neighbor to modify his smoking on my behalf. Really just interested
to know if anyone has dealt with some mechanical means of dealing with
this problem that was effective.

TIA,
Steve

Since you can't smell it, I'd try to confirm there is actually a
smell. You wife's smell might be off.
If she's a rabid anti-smoker, just seeing somebody smoking downwind
and 100 yards away can cause her to smell cigarette smoke,
You got good advice except for that omission.
I'd go for positive pressure first.
If that doesn't do it, the smell is old stuff that hasn't been sealed.
Or in her olfactory imagination.

--Vic



Entirely possible by the OP's description....being "very upset" at a
faint odor of smoke leans toward obsession. I smell smoke most of the
time, in the evening....neighborhood fireplace?....nobody else here can
smell it. I understand folks who hate cig. smoke, but why not the same
obsession about fireplaces, wood stoves and indust. pollution? Wood
burning gives off more carcinogens than 2nd hand cig. smoke.

Actually, we had fireplaces (really small Heatilator fireplace) in our
apartment. We seldom used it (I would actually be surprised if it's
legal to use in NYC), but others in the building did. And we frequently
had strong fireplace smells coming into our apartment from elsewhere in
the building. The fireplaces were very temperamental--you had to really
heat up the flue before starting the fire, or the stack of cold air
would push the smoke down and out into the living room.
By the way, here is a photo of the building with my apartment--with Al
Pacino standing in front:

http://www.google.com/url?source=img...tf2fL0JpePdCZA


The building was used as the bank building in "Dog Day Afternoon". At
the time it was an ink factory; it was turned into condo apartments in
the late 1980s.
I didn't know about the building's history until after I'd moved in in 1993.
They do a lot of filming in our area, which can be a real pain. Today
they're doing filming near us for the HBO series "Boardwalk
Empire"--which doesn't make much sense to me because there is no
boardwalk around. However, Steve Buscemi lives pretty nearby.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On 3/6/2012 10:04 PM, gregz wrote:
Steven wrote:
I write in hope of some serious answers. I know this general issue has
come up before, and wading through the incredulous and the trolls doing a
search yields nothing that seems likely to work. Maybe there is nothing; if not, so be it.
We just moved into our new home after over 7 months of renovations. The
problem is cigarette smoke from one of our neighbors.
This is an attached house, with a party wall (concrete). (attached on
the other side too, separate construction, not a problem.
When the walls were open, I was not aware of any plumbing coming directly
from the smoking neighbor. There are cabinets mounted in our kitchen on
the party wall. Holes were cut in the cabinet backs to accommodate some
drainage and steam pipes (ours), and there is an opening around our
plumbing which we will seal off. We don't know what might be the best
way to do this, and I have no idea if it will work (though the cigarette
smoke is strongest in these cabinets.
This does appear to be coming through the walls--somehow, and not through
vents to the outside. This is old construction (c. 1940).
There is no question that there is cigarette smoke. It's not nearly as
big a problem for me (my sense of smell was never the same since organic
chemistry), but my wife is very upset.
I'm quite sure I have no legal recourse, and in any case wouldn't expect
my neighbor to modify his smoking on my behalf. Really just interested
to know if anyone has dealt with some mechanical means of dealing with
this problem that was effective.

TIA,
Steve

Are you sure they smoke ??

Greg


If it ain't smoke, it's awfully strange B.O. Maybe their vicious dog
Boo Boo, who once almost took my arm off.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Install a "turbine fan" (good quality) which brings in outside air to
your house. That will make positive air pressure inside your house and
not allow smoke to drift in from the other house.

You can also use some sort of smoke device while this fan is on. Hold
it near places where you smell smoke from next door. See where the
positive air is escaping through the wall. Maybe you could seal the
leak(s)?

On 3/7/2012 7:11 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Steven Bornfeld wrote:
I write in hope of some serious answers. I know this general issue
has come up before, and wading through the incredulous and the trolls
doing a search yields nothing that seems likely to work. Maybe there
is nothing; if not, so be it.
We just moved into our new home after over 7 months of renovations. The
problem is cigarette smoke from one of our neighbors.

[...]

You could agitate your local elected betters to prohibit people smoking in
their own homes.

The current political thrust in some communities may well reward you with
the appropriate legislation.





It could happen, but prohibition didn't work out too well. Of course,
anyone traveling in Europe can't help but notice that the proportion of
people smoking there is considerably higher than in the U.S.
This is one of the few health trends where the U.S. seems to be ahead of
Europe. My neighbor, BTW, wasn't born in this country.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On 3/7/2012 10:25 AM, Han wrote:
Steven wrote in news:jj7tv2$8jg$4
@dont-email.me:

On 3/6/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:
Have you tried OZONE shocking the room and cabinets?


Ozone can be pretty irritating. I looked at the Consumer Reports
website--they specifically named a couple of ozone-generating air
purifiers "not acceptable" based on ozone being an irritant, and
potentially unsafe (though I think primarily a problem for people with
pre-existing lung disease.

Steve

Ozone is a strong oxidant, and a gas. That's how it destroys odors, and
also why it is an irritant, especially for the lungs. If your wifeis
allergic to cigarette smoke, ozone might NOT be very good for her, unless
the ozone is left to react with the smoke and then immediately exhausted.

If I were you, I'd stay away from ozone.

There are only 2 solutions apart from and in addition to identify how the
cigarette smoke gets into YOUR house:
1. Overpressure insideyour hopuse using really fresh air
2. An activated carbon filter at the site of entry of the smoke.


Well, those will be tried. Certainly before we pull out the walls,
floors and ceiling. ;-)

Thanks,
Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On 3/7/2012 10:59 AM, Bill wrote:
Install a "turbine fan" (good quality) which brings in outside air to
your house. That will make positive air pressure inside your house and
not allow smoke to drift in from the other house.

You can also use some sort of smoke device while this fan is on. Hold it
near places where you smell smoke from next door. See where the positive
air is escaping through the wall. Maybe you could seal the leak(s)?



I hope we can, though I think it's the wall our kitchen cabinets are
mounted on.
But that's OK, sealing the inside of the cabinets still seems likely to
be one of the easier fixes.

Thanks,
Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Sounds like you're needing some kind of make up air. The new 90% furnaces do
this, using make up air.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
...

They don't even have to be shared. Anytime the dryer is running, it
creates a negative pressure which sucks air in from every little crack
and crevice.

Hank


Good point. In fact, last night wasn't so bad--and we didn't do any
laundry. The night before we had--and the smell was far worse.
Hmmmm....

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Steven Bornfeld wrote:
On 3/6/2012 2:34 PM, wrote:
Have you tried OZONE shocking the room and cabinets?


Ozone can be pretty irritating. I looked at the Consumer Reports
website--they specifically named a couple of ozone-generating air
purifiers "not acceptable" based on ozone being an irritant, and
potentially unsafe (though I think primarily a problem for people with
pre-existing lung disease.

Steve


Shocking is done when vacant. You can let a room sit with ozone and it will
cleanse itself. It dissipates quickly, but needs a final venting if not
complete.

I bought a nice unit, a box with fan and one hour timer for about $130 .
I think you can rent them.

Greg

Han wrote:

Ozone is a strong oxidant, and a gas. That's how it destroys odors,
and also why it is an irritant, especially for the lungs. If your
wifeis allergic to cigarette smoke, ozone might NOT be very good for
her, unless the ozone is left to react with the smoke and then
immediately exhausted.


It's not necessary to exhaust ozone. It decomposes into plain oxygen in
minutes.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Many people are allergic to tobacco, but wood smoke is OK. I am one
such.


What symptoms do you develop when exposed to cigarette smoke?

Anaphylaxix?
Hives?
Overwhelming compulsion to consume badger musk?

Or do you just not like it?

"HeyBub" wrote in news:
:

Han wrote:

Ozone is a strong oxidant, and a gas. That's how it destroys odors,
and also why it is an irritant, especially for the lungs. If your
wifeis allergic to cigarette smoke, ozone might NOT be very good for
her, unless the ozone is left to react with the smoke and then
immediately exhausted.


It's not necessary to exhaust ozone. It decomposes into plain oxygen in
minutes.

Since it is a toxic oxidant and irritant, AND because his wife is rather
sensitive to air borne irritants, I'd strongly suggest he doesn't let it
accumulate AT ALL in his house.

Also, minutes may not be fast enough (I am used to dealing with
biological compounds that decompose in seconds, but I do know from
experience how strong their actions can be). You remember my rants about
prostaglandins, thromboxane and aspirin.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 3/7/2012 11:35 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Many people are allergic to tobacco, but wood smoke is OK. I am one
such.


What symptoms do you develop when exposed to cigarette smoke?

Anaphylaxix?
Hives?
Overwhelming compulsion to consume badger musk?

Or do you just not like it?



It seems allergy to cigarette smoke would be easy to demonstrate.
There is plentiful evidence that components of cigarette smoke can be
antigenic. However, most of the testing has been done with cutaneous
exposure to tobacco extract (as with other allergy testing).
Here's a review for the interested:

http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/ps/access/NNBBPT.ocr

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 10:30:58 -0500, Steven Bornfeld
wrote:

On 3/6/2012 11:45 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Quit before you get to tooth brush sharing.

Comedy aside, that's a good list to check.

Comedy back on. Steve, ask the people next door to light a couple dozen
smoke bombs, so you can see where it's coming through. They won't mind.

Actually, if I knew the guy a little better I might even ask this.
It's nutty enough that it might actually work.

Light a few smoke bombs in your unit and when the neighbor comes running over,
screaming, go see where the problems are. ;-)

On 3/6/2012 9:50 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
You start em young, and use a high pressure advertising campaign before
their brains harden and set in their ways.

My favorite irony is a fireman, coming out of a smoky burning building.
Takes off the air pack and lights one.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"The Daring wrote in message
...

I'm deathly allergic to tobacco smoke and most people refuse to believe
that I can tell if the car in front of me on the freeway contains a
smoker. That poison is like pepper spray to me. What kind of an idiot
purposely inhales the byproducts of combustion? o_O

TDD



very interesting article on how habits are formed

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/ma...bits.html?_r=1

On 3/7/2012 8:55 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
On 3/7/2012 7:29 AM, Norminn wrote:
On 3/6/2012 9:50 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 12:08:41 -0500, Steven Bornfeld
wrote:

I write in hope of some serious answers. I know this general issue has
come up before, and wading through the incredulous and the trolls doing
a search yields nothing that seems likely to work. Maybe there is
nothing; if not, so be it.
We just moved into our new home after over 7 months of renovations. The
problem is cigarette smoke from one of our neighbors.
This is an attached house, with a party wall (concrete). (attached on
the other side too, separate construction, not a problem.
When the walls were open, I was not aware of any plumbing coming
directly from the smoking neighbor. There are cabinets mounted in our
kitchen on the party wall. Holes were cut in the cabinet backs to
accommodate some drainage and steam pipes (ours), and there is an
opening around our plumbing which we will seal off. We don't know what
might be the best way to do this, and I have no idea if it will work
(though the cigarette smoke is strongest in these cabinets.
This does appear to be coming through the walls--somehow, and not
through vents to the outside. This is old construction (c. 1940).
There is no question that there is cigarette smoke. It's not nearly as
big a problem for me (my sense of smell was never the same since
organic
chemistry), but my wife is very upset.
I'm quite sure I have no legal recourse, and in any case wouldn't
expect
my neighbor to modify his smoking on my behalf. Really just interested
to know if anyone has dealt with some mechanical means of dealing with
this problem that was effective.

TIA,
Steve

Since you can't smell it, I'd try to confirm there is actually a
smell. You wife's smell might be off.
If she's a rabid anti-smoker, just seeing somebody smoking downwind
and 100 yards away can cause her to smell cigarette smoke,
You got good advice except for that omission.
I'd go for positive pressure first.
If that doesn't do it, the smell is old stuff that hasn't been sealed.
Or in her olfactory imagination.

--Vic



Entirely possible by the OP's description....being "very upset" at a
faint odor of smoke leans toward obsession. I smell smoke most of the
time, in the evening....neighborhood fireplace?....nobody else here can
smell it. I understand folks who hate cig. smoke, but why not the same
obsession about fireplaces, wood stoves and indust. pollution? Wood
burning gives off more carcinogens than 2nd hand cig. smoke.

Actually, we had fireplaces (really small Heatilator fireplace) in our
apartment. We seldom used it (I would actually be surprised if it's
legal to use in NYC), but others in the building did. And we frequently
had strong fireplace smells coming into our apartment from elsewhere in
the building. The fireplaces were very temperamental--you had to really
heat up the flue before starting the fire, or the stack of cold air
would push the smoke down and out into the living room.
By the way, here is a photo of the building with my apartment--with Al
Pacino standing in front:

http://www.google.com/url?source=img...tf2fL0JpePdCZA



The building was used as the bank building in "Dog Day Afternoon". At
the time it was an ink factory; it was turned into condo apartments in
the late 1980s.
I didn't know about the building's history until after I'd moved in in
1993.
They do a lot of filming in our area, which can be a real pain. Today
they're doing filming near us for the HBO series "Boardwalk
Empire"--which doesn't make much sense to me because there is no
boardwalk around. However, Steve Buscemi lives pretty nearby.

Steve


my daughter lives in the west village on hudson. they're always tieing
up the streets for filming.

Eye pain, sneezing, coughing, that kind of thing. I said allergic, and I
meant allergic. If I "just not like" tobacco, I would have written that.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Many people are allergic to tobacco, but wood smoke is OK. I am one
such.


What symptoms do you develop when exposed to cigarette smoke?

Anaphylaxix?
Hives?
Overwhelming compulsion to consume badger musk?

Or do you just not like it?

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Eye pain, sneezing, coughing, that kind of thing. I said allergic,
and I meant allergic. If I "just not like" tobacco, I would have
written that.


And the reason I asked is that I've met countless people, literally
hundreds, who make the same claim but are lying.

It's refreshing to meet an honest person.

---
Aside:
Whenever I'm assaulted by a granny-lady trying to pummel me with her
umbrella while shouting "You godless Communist, you can't smoke here!" I
simply reply: "It's all right madam, I'm French."

She usually goes away at that point.

On 3/7/2012 1:08 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 10:30:58 -0500, Steven Bornfeld
wrote:

On 3/6/2012 11:45 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Quit before you get to tooth brush sharing.

Comedy aside, that's a good list to check.

Comedy back on. Steve, ask the people next door to light a couple dozen
smoke bombs, so you can see where it's coming through. They won't mind.

Actually, if I knew the guy a little better I might even ask this.
It's nutty enough that it might actually work.

Light a few smoke bombs in your unit and when the neighbor comes running over,
screaming, go see where the problems are. ;-)


:-)!!

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On 3/7/2012 2:59 PM, chaniarts wrote:
On 3/7/2012 8:55 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
On 3/7/2012 7:29 AM, Norminn wrote:
On 3/6/2012 9:50 PM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2012 12:08:41 -0500, Steven Bornfeld
wrote:

I write in hope of some serious answers. I know this general issue has
come up before, and wading through the incredulous and the trolls
doing
a search yields nothing that seems likely to work. Maybe there is
nothing; if not, so be it.
We just moved into our new home after over 7 months of renovations.
The
problem is cigarette smoke from one of our neighbors.
This is an attached house, with a party wall (concrete). (attached on
the other side too, separate construction, not a problem.
When the walls were open, I was not aware of any plumbing coming
directly from the smoking neighbor. There are cabinets mounted in our
kitchen on the party wall. Holes were cut in the cabinet backs to
accommodate some drainage and steam pipes (ours), and there is an
opening around our plumbing which we will seal off. We don't know what
might be the best way to do this, and I have no idea if it will work
(though the cigarette smoke is strongest in these cabinets.
This does appear to be coming through the walls--somehow, and not
through vents to the outside. This is old construction (c. 1940).
There is no question that there is cigarette smoke. It's not nearly as
big a problem for me (my sense of smell was never the same since
organic
chemistry), but my wife is very upset.
I'm quite sure I have no legal recourse, and in any case wouldn't
expect
my neighbor to modify his smoking on my behalf. Really just interested
to know if anyone has dealt with some mechanical means of dealing with
this problem that was effective.

TIA,
Steve

Since you can't smell it, I'd try to confirm there is actually a
smell. You wife's smell might be off.
If she's a rabid anti-smoker, just seeing somebody smoking downwind
and 100 yards away can cause her to smell cigarette smoke,
You got good advice except for that omission.
I'd go for positive pressure first.
If that doesn't do it, the smell is old stuff that hasn't been sealed.
Or in her olfactory imagination.

--Vic



Entirely possible by the OP's description....being "very upset" at a
faint odor of smoke leans toward obsession. I smell smoke most of the
time, in the evening....neighborhood fireplace?....nobody else here can
smell it. I understand folks who hate cig. smoke, but why not the same
obsession about fireplaces, wood stoves and indust. pollution? Wood
burning gives off more carcinogens than 2nd hand cig. smoke.

Actually, we had fireplaces (really small Heatilator fireplace) in our
apartment. We seldom used it (I would actually be surprised if it's
legal to use in NYC), but others in the building did. And we frequently
had strong fireplace smells coming into our apartment from elsewhere in
the building. The fireplaces were very temperamental--you had to really
heat up the flue before starting the fire, or the stack of cold air
would push the smoke down and out into the living room.
By the way, here is a photo of the building with my apartment--with Al
Pacino standing in front:

http://www.google.com/url?source=img...tf2fL0JpePdCZA




The building was used as the bank building in "Dog Day Afternoon". At
the time it was an ink factory; it was turned into condo apartments in
the late 1980s.
I didn't know about the building's history until after I'd moved in in
1993.
They do a lot of filming in our area, which can be a real pain. Today
they're doing filming near us for the HBO series "Boardwalk
Empire"--which doesn't make much sense to me because there is no
boardwalk around. However, Steve Buscemi lives pretty nearby.

Steve


my daughter lives in the west village on hudson. they're always tieing
up the streets for filming.



They're tied up even when they're not filming.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

On 3/7/2012 9:51 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
On 3/6/2012 9:11 PM, Norminn wrote:
On 3/6/2012 5:25 PM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
On 3/6/2012 2:11 PM, Sjouke Burry wrote:
On 3/6/2012 9:08 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
I write in hope of some serious answers. I know this general issue
has come up before, and wading through the incredulous and the trolls
doing a search yields nothing that seems likely to work. Maybe there
is nothing; if not, so be it.
We just moved into our new home after over 7 months of renovations.
The problem is cigarette smoke from one of our neighbors.
This is an attached house, with a party wall (concrete). (attached on
the other side too, separate construction, not a problem.
When the walls were open, I was not aware of any plumbing coming
directly from the smoking neighbor. There are cabinets mounted in our
kitchen on the party wall. Holes were cut in the cabinet backs to
accommodate some drainage and steam pipes (ours), and there is an
opening around our plumbing which we will seal off. We don't know
what might be the best way to do this, and I have no idea if it will
work (though the cigarette smoke is strongest in these cabinets.
This does appear to be coming through the walls--somehow, and not
through vents to the outside. This is old construction (c. 1940).
There is no question that there is cigarette smoke. It's not nearly
as big a problem for me (my sense of smell was never the same since
organic chemistry), but my wife is very upset.
I'm quite sure I have no legal recourse, and in any case wouldn't
expect my neighbor to modify his smoking on my behalf. Really just
interested to know if anyone has dealt with some mechanical means of
dealing with this problem that was effective.

TIA,
cut
To start with, produce some positive pressure in your
home, to stop the polluted air from coming into the house.
A ventilator sucking outside air would do that.

Several people have mentioned this, and it makes sense. Especially given
the (non) winter we've had here.

Thanks,
Steve


One simple measure that comes to mind is weatherstripping around
doors...are entrances close to each other, such that your exhaust fan
could pull air from their residence that way?


Entrances ARE close to each other, and doors leading to the back yard
are fairly close too. But I'm pretty sure it's not coming in that way,
except through the walls--and as others have pointed out, running the
exhaust fan (which we do very sparingly) could be creating a negative
net pressure and encouraging leakage through the wall. But we haven't
been using the exhaust fans much at all.

Steve


I seriously doubt that smoke travels THROUGH the walls, but easily
through small gaps between structural members. Just caulking baseboards
and plumbing/elect. openings should help.

An example of fumes traveling: our condo was being pressure washed using
a gas compressor. AC intake was at the opposite end of the building.
We had an old and forgotten CO detector in our laundry room. The CO
detector went off! Only entry possible at the time was under closed
front doors.

On 3/7/2012 10:06 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
On 3/7/2012 9:00 AM, Hank wrote:
On Mar 6, 10:54 pm, The Daring
wrote:


I'm deathly allergic to tobacco smoke and most people refuse to believe
that I can tell if the car in front of me on the freeway contains a
smoker. That poison is like pepper spray to me. What kind of an idiot
purposely inhales the byproducts of combustion? o_O

TDD

I never heard of anybody dying from an allergy to cigarette smoke. I
couldn't find any link to that info. Got a link?

Hank


Neither have I, (though it seems strange at this late date to have to
prove that smoking is unhealthy).
A quick search turned up articles, mostly in journals that require
registration or subscription payment to view. Most focus on infants and
elderly. One dealt with contact dermatitis in response to cigarette smoke.
But the bigger problem (and the one that seems to be documented) deal
not with direct allergy, but exacerbation of illness in people who have
medical conditions (eg. triggering asthma attacks which may be
life-threatening, people with cardiopulmonary disease, etc.).
I sometimes start to feel sympathetic to smokers, who it seems these
days can't indulge their habit almost anywhere. But the rapidly
increasing body of evidence of health effects of second-hand smoke are
making this more than a simple situation of personal freedom.
I've certainly inhaled my share of second-hand smoke. My dad smoked
heavily for about 35 years. I remember getting carsick as a kid as he
smoked while driving. Although he is still living, he has lost a lobe of
his right lung to cancer.

Steve


I don't deny the hazards of smoking cigarettes, BUT...people
really,really obsess about it while they ignore entirely (and to their
peril) all the other s--- dumped in the air and water. There used to be
a website to look up the polluters by zip code and find out the type and
amount of pollutants they put out. A cozy fire in the fireplace will
kill someone, too.

Honest? Where?
looks furtively left and right

I've been aware of my tobacco allergy as long as I can remember.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Eye pain, sneezing, coughing, that kind of thing. I said allergic,
and I meant allergic. If I "just not like" tobacco, I would have
written that.


And the reason I asked is that I've met countless people, literally
hundreds, who make the same claim but are lying.

It's refreshing to meet an honest person.

---
Aside:
Whenever I'm assaulted by a granny-lady trying to pummel me with her
umbrella while shouting "You godless Communist, you can't smoke here!" I
simply reply: "It's all right madam, I'm French."

She usually goes away at that point.

Steve would need the positive pressure, then.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message
...

Light a few smoke bombs in your unit and when the neighbor comes running
over,
screaming, go see where the problems are. ;-)


:-)!!

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Norminn wrote:
On 3/7/2012 10:06 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
On 3/7/2012 9:00 AM, Hank wrote:
On Mar 6, 10:54 pm, The Daring
wrote:


I'm deathly allergic to tobacco smoke and most people refuse to believe
that I can tell if the car in front of me on the freeway contains a
smoker. That poison is like pepper spray to me. What kind of an idiot
purposely inhales the byproducts of combustion? o_O

TDD

I never heard of anybody dying from an allergy to cigarette smoke. I
couldn't find any link to that info. Got a link?

Hank


Neither have I, (though it seems strange at this late date to have to
prove that smoking is unhealthy).
A quick search turned up articles, mostly in journals that require
registration or subscription payment to view. Most focus on infants and
elderly. One dealt with contact dermatitis in response to cigarette smoke.
But the bigger problem (and the one that seems to be documented) deal
not with direct allergy, but exacerbation of illness in people who have
medical conditions (eg. triggering asthma attacks which may be
life-threatening, people with cardiopulmonary disease, etc.).
I sometimes start to feel sympathetic to smokers, who it seems these
days can't indulge their habit almost anywhere. But the rapidly
increasing body of evidence of health effects of second-hand smoke are
making this more than a simple situation of personal freedom.
I've certainly inhaled my share of second-hand smoke. My dad smoked
heavily for about 35 years. I remember getting carsick as a kid as he
smoked while driving. Although he is still living, he has lost a lobe of
his right lung to cancer.

Steve


I don't deny the hazards of smoking cigarettes, BUT...people
really,really obsess about it while they ignore entirely (and to their
peril) all the other s--- dumped in the air and water. There used to be
a website to look up the polluters by zip code and find out the type and
amount of pollutants they put out. A cozy fire in the fireplace will kill someone, too.

If I didn't have my radon fan on, I could add the effect of smoking an
additional two packs a day, or more.

Greg

"HeyBub" wrote:
Han wrote:

Ozone is a strong oxidant, and a gas. That's how it destroys odors,
and also why it is an irritant, especially for the lungs. If your
wifeis allergic to cigarette smoke, ozone might NOT be very good for
her, unless the ozone is left to react with the smoke and then
immediately exhausted.


It's not necessary to exhaust ozone. It decomposes into plain oxygen in
minutes.

If you run a high output ozone machine for an hour, it's going to be more
like one to two hours minimum before you can enter.

Greg

On 3/7/2012 6:30 AM, Norminn wrote:
On 3/6/2012 10:54 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 3/6/2012 3:33 PM, Robert Macy wrote:
On Mar 6, 12:05 pm, Steven
wrote:
On 3/6/2012 1:00 PM, Paul Drahn wrote:

You haven't discussed the roof of the building and whether there is an
attic. And if so, is the common wall also closing off your attic from
the neighbor's attic? Do you have a vent fan that only vents to the
attic?

There is no attic. It's a flat rubber roof. All vents are through the
roof, except the laundry which vents to the back brick wall.



Use cans of spray foam to seal up the pipes.

We plan to do that (though our contractor seems to think it will take
too many cans--I think he suggested fiberglass insulation, though I'm
sure foam (is it polystyrene?) would seal far better.



Does your neighbor's kitchen share your wall?

I don't know. A few weeks ago my wife complained of a fishy smell, so
we may--and cooking odors may be a problem too. But the primary problem
is the cigarette smoke.



IS the "concrete" wall actually concrete block? Is the concrete wall
painted? A heavy coat of paint will seal any cracks and voids in the
concrete. A poured wall in the 1940's may well have voids where the
concrete was hand mixed and then poured into the forms. The interface
between pours was not well mixed. We had a house built in 1948 with a
hand mixed and poured concrete basement. Walls clearly showed lack of
mixing and let water leak in.

Paul

I have no idea. When the wall was open, I saw no indication that it was
concrete block, so I'm guessing it was poured concrete. Wow, I didn't
know they were still hand mixing concrete by the 1940s. We don't seem
to have any problems with external leaks (some of the internal plumbing
leaked and had to be changed.

Thanks,
Steve

--
Mark& Steven Bornfeld DDShttp://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

febreze to get rid of existing smell
we have successfully used bleach wiped on the non-porous surfaces and
gently sprayed on the porous ones.

positive air pressure
electronic air cleaner
seal between buildings



prognosis is not good. we live in rural area with a density of 1 hm
per several acres. 650 feet sw of us is obviously a heavy smoker. when
the wind shifts, swear it smells like being in a pool hall. no
mitigation for that at all. olfactory is sensitive to parts per
billion. found that inhaling a bit of antihistamine helps.

As with any allergy [like smelling cigarette smoke]; once triggered
stays for a long time, must then get exposure way down below level for
a long time to 'reset' sensitivity.


I'm deathly allergic to tobacco smoke and most people refuse to believe
that I can tell if the car in front of me on the freeway contains a
smoker. That poison is like pepper spray to me. What kind of an idiot
purposely inhales the byproducts of combustion? o_O

TDD

You do, if you drive a car ;o)

Sorry pal, I've never sucked on a tailpipe and never intend to. ^_^

TDD

On 3/7/2012 12:08 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 10:30:58 -0500, Steven Bornfeld
wrote:

On 3/6/2012 11:45 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Quit before you get to tooth brush sharing.

Comedy aside, that's a good list to check.

Comedy back on. Steve, ask the people next door to light a couple dozen
smoke bombs, so you can see where it's coming through. They won't mind.

Actually, if I knew the guy a little better I might even ask this.
It's nutty enough that it might actually work.

Light a few smoke bombs in your unit and when the neighbor comes running over,
screaming, go see where the problems are. ;-)

Believe it or not, smoke bombs are sold at most HVAC supply houses.
Whenever I use one to check anything for air leaks, I always call the
fire department first and talk to a boss and see if he wants to have
a fire marshal on hand. There are times when it's advisable to contact
the 911 service through the non-emergency number and talk with a
supervisor before causing a public panic and something as simple as
notifying the neighbors is advisable to keep from freaking them out.
Heck, I had a little old lady across the street from a customer call
the police when I was doing a compressor swap. Of course I had the new
compressor in a box along with all the tools which is something a copper
thief will not have. I thanked the officer for looking out for
my customer and there was no problem. He even talked to the little old
lady neighbor and told her everything was OK. ^_^

TDD

On Wed, 07 Mar 2012 07:29:01 -0500, Norminn
wrote Re Problem with cigarette smoke:

Entirely possible by the OP's description....being "very upset" at a
faint odor of smoke leans toward obsession. I smell smoke most of the
time, in the evening....neighborhood fireplace?....nobody else here can
smell it. I understand folks who hate cig. smoke, but why not the same
obsession about fireplaces, wood stoves and indust. pollution? Wood
burning gives off more carcinogens than 2nd hand cig. smoke.

Indeed. And they live in Brooklyn New York City. Have you ever been
in Brooklyn? The entire borough smells worse than cigarette smoke.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.