I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't heard
any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet. Years back when I had a
warehouse downtown, I found a number of 7.62 and 5.56 bullets on the
street in front of my place. There were rifling marks on them. o_O

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:

I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't
heard any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet.

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your country
is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...

--------------

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...unfire/1208726

Ruskin boy in coma after being struck by celebratory New Year's gunfire

Posted: Jan 01, 2012 04:19 PM

RUSKIN (near Tampa Bay I guess) — Diego Duran stood on his family's
front lawn to watch New Year's Eve fireworks cut through the darkness,
snapping and popping in the air over their Ruskin home.

As the bright bursts of light fell and faded after midnight, a bullet
dropped with them.

Diego's mother saw her son collapse to the ground. His sisters and a
friend thought at first he was joking.

But when Sandra Duran knelt to check on her 12-year-old son, she became
covered in blood that poured from his nose and eyes. She drove Diego to
South Bay Hospital in Sun City Center, where doctors found he had been
shot in the top of his head. No one knows where the bullet came from,
but authorities believe it was fired from miles away in a new year's
celebration.

"Here we have a 12-year-old kid fighting for his life because he
happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time," said Hillsborough
County sheriff's spokesman Larry McKinnon. Detectives spoke with
Diego's family and neighbors Sunday morning and determined that no one
in the immediate vicinity of the home had been firing a gun at the time,
around 1 a.m. Sunday, according to officials.

"The bullet was quite a large one," said family friend Dee Sims. "They
said it could have come from 2 or 3 miles away."

Diego was later taken to Tampa General Hospital, where he remained in
critical condition Sunday evening. His mother was at his side all day as
he lay in a coma, Sims said, the bullet still lodged under his eye.

Sandra and her husband, Diego Sr., have rented a small home for eight
years behind Sims' 10-acre farm property. The boy has two sisters,
Genesis, 14, and Grace, 16, Sims said. Like his sisters, Diego is an A
student. He loves football and baseball and lately has become a fan of
skateboarding, she said.

The farming community where they live has its share of gun owners and
hunters, Sims said. Celebratory gunfire isn't unusual. "We hear it all
the time," Sims said. "I don't know why people do things like that."
The firing of weapons into the air in celebration is not an uncommon
practice, particularly among immigrants from countries where there are
few or no laws prohibiting it.

It's illegal in most states, including Florida. Authorities often remind
people not to do it. "Nationally it's a huge issue," McKinnon said.
"What somebody thinks is a cheap form of fun and entertainment, it has
potentially catastrophic consequences."

Still, it happens.

Last year, a 6-year-old boy was hit and injured by a stray bullet during
a New Year's Eve celebration he was attending with his parents at a
Miami restaurant. In 2007, a 69-year-old Plantation man was killed in
his back yard on New Year's Day by a stray rifle bullet.

A 2006 incident in which two people were shot during a New Year's Eve
celebration in Delray Beach led then-state House Majority Leader Adam
Hasner to introduce a bill increasing the penalty for firing a gun into
the air. The bill did not pass, and the maximum penalty for firing into
the air remains a year in jail.

But if someone is hurt or killed, the consequences are much greater.
The lethality of a bullet depends on the trajectory at which it is
fired, as well as the speed at which it falls. If fired at a
non-vertical angle, it maintains enough speed to do damage.

"Some of them go over a mile high," McKinnon said. "Depending on the
angle of the bullet, it could come down a couple of miles away."

Detectives want to talk to anyone who might know of someone who was
firing any type of weapon into the air early Sunday morning in the
Ruskin area. Anyone with information is asked to call the Hillsborough
County Sheriff's Office at (813) 247-8200.

On 1/1/2012 7:57 PM, Home Guy wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't
heard any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet.

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your country
is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...

--------------

GEE! You're right, we need to take all guns away from the police because
they kill so many innocent citizens. Darn, the military
has lots of guns, they kill lots of people, we need to take those
away too. Lets see, there are over 300 million of us gun loving
nut jobs in The United States so there must be hundreds of thousands
of people killed by guns in this country every year and we have to
get rid of everything that may take an innocent life. Let me think
of all the dangerous items we have here that kill people, hummmm...
Darn! It's a very big list, it'll take some time. o_O

TDD

On 1/1/2012 6:48 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 1/1/2012 7:57 PM, Home Guy wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't
heard any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet.

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your country
is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...

--------------

GEE! You're right, we need to take all guns away from the police because
they kill so many innocent citizens. Darn, the military
has lots of guns, they kill lots of people, we need to take those
away too. Lets see, there are over 300 million of us gun loving
nut jobs in The United States so there must be hundreds of thousands
of people killed by guns in this country every year and we have to
get rid of everything that may take an innocent life. Let me think
of all the dangerous items we have here that kill people, hummmm...
Darn! It's a very big list, it'll take some time. o_O

TDD

Yup. We need to suspend the constitutionally-protected freedoms of all
law-abiding citizens because of the occasional, irresponsible abuses of
only a few people. Gee, that makes sense... Sigh.

On 1/1/2012 9:38 PM, RosemontCrest wrote:
On 1/1/2012 6:48 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 1/1/2012 7:57 PM, Home Guy wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't
heard any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet.

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your country
is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...

--------------

GEE! You're right, we need to take all guns away from the police because
they kill so many innocent citizens. Darn, the military
has lots of guns, they kill lots of people, we need to take those
away too. Lets see, there are over 300 million of us gun loving
nut jobs in The United States so there must be hundreds of thousands
of people killed by guns in this country every year and we have to
get rid of everything that may take an innocent life. Let me think
of all the dangerous items we have here that kill people, hummmm...
Darn! It's a very big list, it'll take some time. o_O

TDD

Yup. We need to suspend the constitutionally-protected freedoms of all
law-abiding citizens because of the occasional, irresponsible abuses of
only a few people. Gee, that makes sense... Sigh.

I think smoke inhalation in house fires kill more people than homicides
involving guns. I'm just guessing because I remember home fire deaths
being something like 5,000 or more a year and that was when I was doing
some work in the field. I recall at one time 40,000 deaths a year due to
auto accidents with half of them because of drunk driving. I made a SWAG
at the numbers based on past reading but I haven't looked any of it up
so any P.L.L.C.F. who wish to scream liar go ahead. ^_^

Oh hell, I looked up some crap anyway!

In 2010, fire departments responded to 384,000 home fires in the United
States, which claimed the lives of 2,640 people (not including
firefighters) and injured another 13,350, not including firefighters
(Karter 2011).

Less than I remembered reading years ago.

Updated 2009 fatality and injury data showing that highway deaths fell
to 33,808 for the year, the lowest number since 1950.

Alcohol impaired driving fatalities declined by 7.4 percent in 2009 –
10,839 compared to 11,711 reported in 2008.

Less than I remembered.

As far as deaths due to firearms, the most succinct I could find was at
this site:

http://www.tincher.to/deaths.htm

Leading Causes of Death Data are for the U.S. and are final 2007 data:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm

Number of deaths for leading causes of death

Heart disease: 616,067
Cancer: 562,875
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 135,952
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 127,924
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 123,706
Alzheimer's disease: 74,632
Diabetes: 71,382
Influenza and Pneumonia: 52,717
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 46,448
Septicemia: 34,828

Where are the hundreds of thousands of deaths caused by gun nuts?

Of course, gun nuts should always be protected by a properly fitted cup
inside an athletic supporter. ^_^

TDD

On Jan 2, 1:57*am, Home Guy wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't
heard any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet.

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your country
is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...

--------------

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...boy-in-coma-af...

Ruskin boy in coma after being struck by celebratory New Year's gunfire

Posted: Jan 01, 2012 04:19 PM

RUSKIN (near Tampa Bay I guess) — Diego Duran stood on his family's
front lawn to watch New Year's Eve fireworks cut through the darkness,
snapping and popping in the air over their Ruskin home.

As the bright bursts of light fell and faded after midnight, a bullet
dropped with them.

Diego's mother saw her son collapse to the ground. His sisters and a
friend thought at first he was joking.

But when Sandra Duran knelt to check on her 12-year-old son, she became
covered in blood that poured from his nose and eyes. *She drove Diego to
South Bay Hospital in Sun City Center, where doctors found he had been
shot in the top of his head. *No one knows where the bullet came from,
but authorities believe it was fired from miles away in a new year's
celebration.

"Here we have a 12-year-old kid fighting for his life because he
happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time," said Hillsborough
County sheriff's spokesman Larry McKinnon. *Detectives spoke with
Diego's family and neighbors Sunday morning and determined that no one
in the immediate vicinity of the home had been firing a gun at the time,
around 1 a.m. Sunday, according to officials.

"The bullet was quite a large one," said family friend Dee Sims. "They
said it could have come from 2 or 3 miles away."

Diego was later taken to Tampa General Hospital, where he remained in
critical condition Sunday evening. His mother was at his side all day as
he lay in a coma, Sims said, the bullet still lodged under his eye.

Sandra and her husband, Diego Sr., have rented a small home for eight
years behind Sims' 10-acre farm property. *The boy has two sisters,
Genesis, 14, and Grace, 16, Sims said. Like his sisters, Diego is an A
student. He loves football and baseball and lately has become a fan of
skateboarding, she said.

The farming community where they live has its share of gun owners and
hunters, Sims said. Celebratory gunfire isn't unusual. *"We hear it all
the time," Sims said. "I don't know why people do things like that."
The firing of weapons into the air in celebration is not an uncommon
practice, particularly among immigrants from countries where there are
few or no laws prohibiting it.

It's illegal in most states, including Florida. Authorities often remind
people not to do it. *"Nationally it's a huge issue," McKinnon said.
"What somebody thinks is a cheap form of fun and entertainment, it has
potentially catastrophic consequences."

Still, it happens.

Last year, a 6-year-old boy was hit and injured by a stray bullet during
a New Year's Eve celebration he was attending with his parents at a
Miami restaurant. *In 2007, a 69-year-old Plantation man was killed in
his back yard on New Year's Day by a stray rifle bullet.

A 2006 incident in which two people were shot during a New Year's Eve
celebration in Delray Beach led then-state House Majority Leader Adam
Hasner to introduce a bill increasing the penalty for firing a gun into
the air. The bill did not pass, and the maximum penalty for firing into
the air remains a year in jail.

But if someone is hurt or killed, the consequences are much greater.
The lethality of a bullet depends on the trajectory at which it is
fired, as well as the speed at which it falls. If fired at a
non-vertical angle, it maintains enough speed to do damage.

"Some of them go over a mile high," McKinnon said. "Depending on the
angle of the bullet, it could come down a couple of miles away."

Detectives want to talk to anyone who might know of someone who was
firing any type of weapon into the air early Sunday morning in the
Ruskin area. Anyone with information is asked to call the Hillsborough
County Sheriff's Office at (813) 247-8200.

Benifits of US gun culture.

On 1/2/2012 2:24 AM, harry wrote:
On Jan 2, 1:57 am, Home wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't
heard any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet.

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your country
is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...

--------------

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...boy-in-coma-af...

Ruskin boy in coma after being struck by celebratory New Year's gunfire

Posted: Jan 01, 2012 04:19 PM

RUSKIN (near Tampa Bay I guess) — Diego Duran stood on his family's
front lawn to watch New Year's Eve fireworks cut through the darkness,
snapping and popping in the air over their Ruskin home.

As the bright bursts of light fell and faded after midnight, a bullet
dropped with them.

Diego's mother saw her son collapse to the ground. His sisters and a
friend thought at first he was joking.

But when Sandra Duran knelt to check on her 12-year-old son, she became
covered in blood that poured from his nose and eyes. She drove Diego to
South Bay Hospital in Sun City Center, where doctors found he had been
shot in the top of his head. No one knows where the bullet came from,
but authorities believe it was fired from miles away in a new year's
celebration.

"Here we have a 12-year-old kid fighting for his life because he
happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time," said Hillsborough
County sheriff's spokesman Larry McKinnon. Detectives spoke with
Diego's family and neighbors Sunday morning and determined that no one
in the immediate vicinity of the home had been firing a gun at the time,
around 1 a.m. Sunday, according to officials.

"The bullet was quite a large one," said family friend Dee Sims. "They
said it could have come from 2 or 3 miles away."

Diego was later taken to Tampa General Hospital, where he remained in
critical condition Sunday evening. His mother was at his side all day as
he lay in a coma, Sims said, the bullet still lodged under his eye.

Sandra and her husband, Diego Sr., have rented a small home for eight
years behind Sims' 10-acre farm property. The boy has two sisters,
Genesis, 14, and Grace, 16, Sims said. Like his sisters, Diego is an A
student. He loves football and baseball and lately has become a fan of
skateboarding, she said.

The farming community where they live has its share of gun owners and
hunters, Sims said. Celebratory gunfire isn't unusual. "We hear it all
the time," Sims said. "I don't know why people do things like that."
The firing of weapons into the air in celebration is not an uncommon
practice, particularly among immigrants from countries where there are
few or no laws prohibiting it.

It's illegal in most states, including Florida. Authorities often remind
people not to do it. "Nationally it's a huge issue," McKinnon said.
"What somebody thinks is a cheap form of fun and entertainment, it has
potentially catastrophic consequences."

Still, it happens.

Last year, a 6-year-old boy was hit and injured by a stray bullet during
a New Year's Eve celebration he was attending with his parents at a
Miami restaurant. In 2007, a 69-year-old Plantation man was killed in
his back yard on New Year's Day by a stray rifle bullet.

A 2006 incident in which two people were shot during a New Year's Eve
celebration in Delray Beach led then-state House Majority Leader Adam
Hasner to introduce a bill increasing the penalty for firing a gun into
the air. The bill did not pass, and the maximum penalty for firing into
the air remains a year in jail.

But if someone is hurt or killed, the consequences are much greater.
The lethality of a bullet depends on the trajectory at which it is
fired, as well as the speed at which it falls. If fired at a
non-vertical angle, it maintains enough speed to do damage.

"Some of them go over a mile high," McKinnon said. "Depending on the
angle of the bullet, it could come down a couple of miles away."

Detectives want to talk to anyone who might know of someone who was
firing any type of weapon into the air early Sunday morning in the
Ruskin area. Anyone with information is asked to call the Hillsborough
County Sheriff's Office at (813) 247-8200.

Benifits of US gun culture.

Harry, you want to help me with my "Ban Mechanized Transportation"
movement. So many people are killed all over the world because of
Transportation Nuts and we must put a stop to it. The battle against
TN's is in its infancy but I'm sure if the right celebrities behind
it we can put a stop to deaths caused by Mechanized Transportation!

TDD

RosemontCrest wrote:

Yup. We need to suspend the constitutionally-protected freedoms of
all law-abiding citizens because of the occasional, irresponsible
abuses of only a few people. Gee, that makes sense... Sigh.

Yea, just like so many of your rights have been taken from you as you
partake in air travel.

And note that the TSA is not just in airports. They are expanding their
presence on your highways, bus, train and subway stations. You no
longer have the right to liberty - which is (in part) the free(1) and
anonymous travel within your own country.

(1) by free, I mean free of identity-checking, presentation of
documents, searches of your person or property.

Tell me what is more important.

The right to bear arms, or your liberty - the right to travel and move
about *in your own country* without the gov't knowing and tracking and
sanctioning your every trip.

No, you can't un-do the right to bear arms. Your society is permeated
with guns and you can't un-do that. It was a bad decision on the part
of the founding fathers to put that in the constitution. You have to
live with it now - that is, unless you get shot by a gun and your "right
to life" has been taken from you.

The really sad thing is that you all feel that the fate of this 12
year-old boy is a justifiable cost in terms of the over-all benefit you
feel that you gain by having the right to bear arms. A gain that none
of you can even explain.

The Daring Dufas wrote:

I think smoke inhalation in house fires kill more people than
homicides involving guns.

What a stupid-ass comparison.

That's like saying old-age kills more people than guns.

On Jan 2, 2:28*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 1/2/2012 2:24 AM, harry wrote:





On Jan 2, 1:57 am, Home *wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't
heard any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet.

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your country
is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...

--------------

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...boy-in-coma-af....

Ruskin boy in coma after being struck by celebratory New Year's gunfire

Posted: Jan 01, 2012 04:19 PM

RUSKIN (near Tampa Bay I guess) — Diego Duran stood on his family's
front lawn to watch New Year's Eve fireworks cut through the darkness,
snapping and popping in the air over their Ruskin home.

As the bright bursts of light fell and faded after midnight, a bullet
dropped with them.

Diego's mother saw her son collapse to the ground. His sisters and a
friend thought at first he was joking.

But when Sandra Duran knelt to check on her 12-year-old son, she became
covered in blood that poured from his nose and eyes. *She drove Diego to
South Bay Hospital in Sun City Center, where doctors found he had been
shot in the top of his head. *No one knows where the bullet came from,
but authorities believe it was fired from miles away in a new year's
celebration.

"Here we have a 12-year-old kid fighting for his life because he
happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time," said Hillsborough
County sheriff's spokesman Larry McKinnon. *Detectives spoke with
Diego's family and neighbors Sunday morning and determined that no one
in the immediate vicinity of the home had been firing a gun at the time,
around 1 a.m. Sunday, according to officials.

"The bullet was quite a large one," said family friend Dee Sims. "They
said it could have come from 2 or 3 miles away."

Diego was later taken to Tampa General Hospital, where he remained in
critical condition Sunday evening. His mother was at his side all day as
he lay in a coma, Sims said, the bullet still lodged under his eye.

Sandra and her husband, Diego Sr., have rented a small home for eight
years behind Sims' 10-acre farm property. *The boy has two sisters,
Genesis, 14, and Grace, 16, Sims said. Like his sisters, Diego is an A
student. He loves football and baseball and lately has become a fan of
skateboarding, she said.

The farming community where they live has its share of gun owners and
hunters, Sims said. Celebratory gunfire isn't unusual. *"We hear it all
the time," Sims said. "I don't know why people do things like that."
The firing of weapons into the air in celebration is not an uncommon
practice, particularly among immigrants from countries where there are
few or no laws prohibiting it.

It's illegal in most states, including Florida. Authorities often remind
people not to do it. *"Nationally it's a huge issue," McKinnon said.
"What somebody thinks is a cheap form of fun and entertainment, it has
potentially catastrophic consequences."

Still, it happens.

Last year, a 6-year-old boy was hit and injured by a stray bullet during
a New Year's Eve celebration he was attending with his parents at a
Miami restaurant. *In 2007, a 69-year-old Plantation man was killed in
his back yard on New Year's Day by a stray rifle bullet.

A 2006 incident in which two people were shot during a New Year's Eve
celebration in Delray Beach led then-state House Majority Leader Adam
Hasner to introduce a bill increasing the penalty for firing a gun into
the air. The bill did not pass, and the maximum penalty for firing into
the air remains a year in jail.

But if someone is hurt or killed, the consequences are much greater.
The lethality of a bullet depends on the trajectory at which it is
fired, as well as the speed at which it falls. If fired at a
non-vertical angle, it maintains enough speed to do damage.

"Some of them go over a mile high," McKinnon said. "Depending on the
angle of the bullet, it could come down a couple of miles away."

Detectives want to talk to anyone who might know of someone who was
firing any type of weapon into the air early Sunday morning in the
Ruskin area. Anyone with information is asked to call the Hillsborough
County Sheriff's Office at (813) 247-8200.

Benifits of US gun culture.

Harry, you want to help me with my "Ban Mechanized Transportation"
movement. So many people are killed all over the world because of
Transportation Nuts and we must put a stop to it. The battle against
TN's is in its infancy but I'm sure if the right celebrities behind
it we can put a stop to deaths caused by Mechanized Transportation!

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We need transport. It isnot designed to kill.
Guns are designed to kill, they have no other purpose. We don't need
them.
While they are about, stupid accidents occur and nutters are able to
commit mass murder.

Home Guy wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't
heard any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet.

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your
country is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...


A. What was a small child doing awake and in the yard at midnight? He should
have been in bed.

B. It's not the gun's fault anyway. It's lack of education on the part of
the gun owner. Celebratory gunfire should take place with the gun pointed to
the ground, not up in the air.

C. These regrettable negligent acts are the small price we pay for being a
free society. Fortunately, they are a vanishingly small price.

D. Interestingly, 110,000 (at least)* guns were bought in the U.S. on
December 23rd, 500,000 the week before Christmas, and 1.5 million in the
month of December.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...Christmas.html

----
* Could be more. These numbers are only the number of FBI insta-checks which
verify the buyer. The buyer could be purchasing multiple guns. Further, in
some states, holders of concealed handgun permits are exempt from the FBI
buyer verification, so any purchases made by them are not tallied in the
above numbers.

Still, 1.5 million guns in December is woefully small compared to the
population. Many hope the number will rise next year.

harry wrote:

Harry, you want to help me with my "Ban Mechanized Transportation"
movement. So many people are killed all over the world because of
Transportation Nuts and we must put a stop to it. The battle against
TN's is in its infancy but I'm sure if the right celebrities behind
it we can put a stop to deaths caused by Mechanized Transportation!

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We need transport. It isnot designed to kill.
Guns are designed to kill, they have no other purpose. We don't need
them.
While they are about, stupid accidents occur and nutters are able to
commit mass murder.

Guns have no other purpose than killing? Absurd. I can think of a half-dozen
reasons for the existence of guns that do not involve killing other humans:

* Competitive shooting - Shooting IS an Olympic sport
* Hunting
* Historical and educational resource
* Investment
* Self defense
* Deterrence
* Orgasm assistance

and more

On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 16:37:07 -0600, "HeyBub" wrote:

Home Guy wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't
heard any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet.

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your
country is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...


A. What was a small child doing awake and in the yard at midnight? He should
have been in bed.

B. It's not the gun's fault anyway. It's lack of education on the part of
the gun owner. Celebratory gunfire should take place with the gun pointed to
the ground, not up in the air.

C. These regrettable negligent acts are the small price we pay for being a
free society. Fortunately, they are a vanishingly small price.

D. Interestingly, 110,000 (at least)* guns were bought in the U.S. on
December 23rd, 500,000 the week before Christmas, and 1.5 million in the
month of December.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...Christmas.html

Interestingly, it's illegal to buy a gun (as a gift, for instance) for someone
else, even a spouse. I would never do such a thing. "Of course the pink
revolver is for me, sweetie.".

----
* Could be more. These numbers are only the number of FBI insta-checks which
verify the buyer. The buyer could be purchasing multiple guns. Further, in
some states, holders of concealed handgun permits are exempt from the FBI
buyer verification, so any purchases made by them are not tallied in the
above numbers.

I wonder why my state (county?) wants to know what guns I have, for the
permit. I only told them about one, but...

Still, 1.5 million guns in December is woefully small compared to the
population. Many hope the number will rise next year.

Yeah, that's only one for every 200 people. Yeah, I'll have to do my part
this year but 2011 was a bad year.

On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 16:42:39 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

harry wrote:

Harry, you want to help me with my "Ban Mechanized Transportation"
movement. So many people are killed all over the world because of
Transportation Nuts and we must put a stop to it. The battle against
TN's is in its infancy but I'm sure if the right celebrities behind
it we can put a stop to deaths caused by Mechanized Transportation!

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We need transport. It isnot designed to kill.
Guns are designed to kill, they have no other purpose. We don't need
them.
While they are about, stupid accidents occur and nutters are able to
commit mass murder.

Guns have no other purpose than killing? Absurd. I can think of a half-dozen
reasons for the existence of guns that do not involve killing other humans:

* Competitive shooting - Shooting IS an Olympic sport
* Hunting
* Historical and educational resource
* Investment
* Self defense
* Deterrence
* Orgasm assistance

and more


You forgot to mention- shooting the window out of a car in a raging
river-

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...cue/52328646/1
"SALT LAKE CITY (AP) – Former police officer Chris Willden didn't
hesitate when he realized children were trapped in an upside down car
in an icy Utah river. He pulled his handgun, pushed it up against the
submerged windows and shot out the glass."

Jim

On 1/1/2012 9:48 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 1/1/2012 7:57 PM, Home Guy wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't
heard any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet.

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your country
is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...

--------------

GEE! You're right, we need to take all guns away from the police because
they kill so many innocent citizens. Darn, the military
has lots of guns, they kill lots of people, we need to take those
away too. Lets see, there are over 300 million of us gun loving
nut jobs in The United States so there must be hundreds of thousands
of people killed by guns in this country every year and we have to
get rid of everything that may take an innocent life. Let me think
of all the dangerous items we have here that kill people, hummmm...
Darn! It's a very big list, it'll take some time. o_O

TDD

Didn't Myth Busters do a story where they shot bullets straight up in
the air and determined that they did not have lethal force when they hit
the ground? I recall penetration was minor.

I figure that the deaths that occur are probably from bullets shot at 45
degree angles or less which could be lethal.

On 1/2/2012 9:33 AM, Home Guy wrote:
RosemontCrest wrote:

Yup. We need to suspend the constitutionally-protected freedoms of
all law-abiding citizens because of the occasional, irresponsible
abuses of only a few people. Gee, that makes sense... Sigh.

Yea, just like so many of your rights have been taken from you as you
partake in air travel.

And note that the TSA is not just in airports. They are expanding their
presence on your highways, bus, train and subway stations. You no
longer have the right to liberty - which is (in part) the free(1) and
anonymous travel within your own country.

(1) by free, I mean free of identity-checking, presentation of
documents, searches of your person or property.

Tell me what is more important.

The right to bear arms, or your liberty - the right to travel and move
about *in your own country* without the gov't knowing and tracking and
sanctioning your every trip.

No, you can't un-do the right to bear arms. Your society is permeated
with guns and you can't un-do that. It was a bad decision on the part
of the founding fathers to put that in the constitution. You have to
live with it now - that is, unless you get shot by a gun and your "right
to life" has been taken from you.

The really sad thing is that you all feel that the fate of this 12
year-old boy is a justifiable cost in terms of the over-all benefit you
feel that you gain by having the right to bear arms. A gain that none
of you can even explain.

The right to bear arms is so you can shoot the Nazi trying to take your
freedom. ^_^

TDD

On 1/2/2012 9:36 AM, Home Guy wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

I think smoke inhalation in house fires kill more people than
homicides involving guns.

What a stupid-ass comparison.

That's like saying old-age kills more people than guns.

It does, heck, heart disease is the number one killer in The U.S., I
don't know about Canuckstan, up there the number one cause of death is
probably due to being eaten by a polar bear. ^_^

TDD

On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 19:55:16 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 1/2/2012 9:36 AM, Home Guy wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

I think smoke inhalation in house fires kill more people than
homicides involving guns.

What a stupid-ass comparison.

That's like saying old-age kills more people than guns.

It does, heck, heart disease is the number one killer in The U.S., I
don't know about Canuckstan, up there the number one cause of death is
probably due to being eaten by a polar bear. ^_^

It's a good thing "global warming" is killing 'em all, eh?

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Interestingly, it's illegal to buy a gun (as a gift, for instance)
for someone else, even a spouse. I would never do such a thing. "Of
course the pink revolver is for me, sweetie.".


In what benighted jurisdiction is that true? There's a difference in intent
between a straw-purchase and a gift purchase and, inasmuch as "intent" is a
necessary element of every criminal offense, if you intend the weapon as a
gift, no foul.

Federal law certainly allows you can buy a gun as a present or to overcome
some other disability.

How else does a 12-year old get his first .22? Or his first Barrett 50-cal?

On 1/2/2012 7:40 PM, HeyBub wrote:
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Interestingly, it's illegal to buy a gun (as a gift, for instance)
for someone else, even a spouse.

That is a statement born of complete ignorance.

In what benighted jurisdiction is that true? There's a difference in intent
between a straw-purchase and a gift purchase and, inasmuch as "intent" is a
necessary element of every criminal offense, if you intend the weapon as a
gift, no foul.

Federal law certainly allows you can buy a gun as a present or to overcome
some other disability.

How else does a 12-year old get his first .22? Or his first Barrett 50-cal?

Indeed. Buying a firearm lawfully and giving or selling it to a family
member, friend or acquaintance is entirely lawful.

On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 21:40:44 -0600, "HeyBub" wrote:

wrote:

Interestingly, it's illegal to buy a gun (as a gift, for instance)
for someone else, even a spouse. I would never do such a thing. "Of
course the pink revolver is for me, sweetie.".


In what benighted jurisdiction is that true? There's a difference in intent
between a straw-purchase and a gift purchase and, inasmuch as "intent" is a
necessary element of every criminal offense, if you intend the weapon as a
gift, no foul.

Vermont. I was told it was federal. They told me the same thing here in
Alabama. The name on the yellow-sheet was for the end user. I mentioned,
both times how silly it was since it was perfectly legal for me to transfer it
after. ...and my wife? Oh, she was told the same thing when she said she was
going to buy one for me. Nope. No can do. I only assumed it was federal. It
couldn't be a Vermont gun law. They don't have any. ;-)

Federal law certainly allows you can buy a gun as a present or to overcome
some other disability.

How else does a 12-year old get his first .22? Or his first Barrett 50-cal?

He doesn't. His parents do.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Home Guy wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't
heard any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet.

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your
country is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...


A. What was a small child doing awake and in the yard at midnight? He
should have been in bed.

B. It's not the gun's fault anyway. It's lack of education on the part of
the gun owner. Celebratory gunfire should take place with the gun pointed
to the ground, not up in the air.

C. These regrettable negligent acts are the small price we pay for being a
free society. Fortunately, they are a vanishingly small price.

D. Interestingly, 110,000 (at least)* guns were bought in the U.S. on
December 23rd, 500,000 the week before Christmas, and 1.5 million in the
month of December.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...Christmas.html

----
* Could be more. These numbers are only the number of FBI insta-checks
which verify the buyer. The buyer could be purchasing multiple guns.
Further, in some states, holders of concealed handgun permits are exempt
from the FBI buyer verification, so any purchases made by them are not
tallied in the above numbers.

Still, 1.5 million guns in December is woefully small compared to the
population. Many hope the number will rise next year.

On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 19:59:36 -0800, RosemontCrest
wrote:

On 1/2/2012 7:40 PM, HeyBub wrote:
zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Interestingly, it's illegal to buy a gun (as a gift, for instance)
for someone else, even a spouse.

That is a statement born of complete ignorance.

In what benighted jurisdiction is that true? There's a difference in intent
between a straw-purchase and a gift purchase and, inasmuch as "intent" is a
necessary element of every criminal offense, if you intend the weapon as a
gift, no foul.

Federal law certainly allows you can buy a gun as a present or to overcome
some other disability.

How else does a 12-year old get his first .22? Or his first Barrett 50-cal?

Indeed. Buying a firearm lawfully and giving or selling it to a family
member, friend or acquaintance is entirely lawful.

We were told, on at least three occasions in two states, that buying with the
intention of transferring it to another person was unlawful. ...even when the
other person was in the same family. Ignorance? Maybe. Tell the FFLs.

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your
country is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...

Look around you. Society is going in the crapper. People are out of jobs.
Gangs abound.

What are things like on your planet?

Steve

On Jan 3, 1:50*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 1/2/2012 9:33 AM, Home Guy wrote:





RosemontCrest wrote:

Yup. We need to suspend the constitutionally-protected freedoms of
all law-abiding citizens because of the occasional, irresponsible
abuses of only a few people. Gee, that makes sense... Sigh.

Yea, just like so many of your rights have been taken from you as you
partake in air travel.

And note that the TSA is not just in airports. *They are expanding their
presence on your highways, bus, train and subway stations. *You no
longer have the right to liberty - which is (in part) the free(1) and
anonymous travel within your own country.

(1) by free, I mean free of identity-checking, presentation of
documents, searches of your person or property.

Tell me what is more important.

The right to bear arms, or your liberty - the right to travel and move
about *in your own country* without the gov't knowing and tracking and
sanctioning your every trip.

No, you can't un-do the right to bear arms. *Your society is permeated
with guns and you can't un-do that. *It was a bad decision on the part
of the founding fathers to put that in the constitution. *You have to
live with it now - that is, unless you get shot by a gun and your "right
to life" has been taken from you.

The really sad thing is that you all feel that the fate of this 12
year-old boy is a justifiable cost in terms of the over-all benefit you
feel that you gain by having the right to bear arms. *A gain that none
of you can even explain.

The right to bear arms is so you can shoot the Nazi trying to take your
freedom. ^_^

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Too late, that went years ago. The final stage was in 2008. And gun
owners did nothing.

On Jan 3, 4:35*am, "
wrote:
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 21:40:44 -0600, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:

Interestingly, it's illegal to buy a gun (as a gift, for instance)
for someone else, even a spouse. *I would never do such a thing. *"Of
course the pink revolver is for me, sweetie.".

In what benighted jurisdiction is that true? There's a difference in intent
between a straw-purchase and a gift purchase and, inasmuch as "intent" is a
necessary element of every criminal offense, if you intend the weapon as a
gift, no foul.

Vermont. I was told it was federal. *They told me the same thing here in
Alabama. *The name on the yellow-sheet was for the end user. *I mentioned,
both times how silly it was since it was perfectly legal for me to transfer it
after. *...and my wife? *Oh, she was told the same thing when she said she was
going to buy one for me. *Nope. *No can do. *I only assumed it was federal. It
couldn't be a Vermont gun law. *They don't have any. *;-)

Federal law certainly allows you can buy a gun as a present or to overcome
some other disability.

How else does a 12-year old get his first .22? Or his first Barrett 50-cal?

He doesn't. *His parents do.

You mean his half wit/retard parents do.

On Jan 3, 4:38*am, "Steve B" wrote:
How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your
country is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...

Look around you. *Society is going in the crapper. *People are out of jobs.
Gangs abound.

What are things like on your planet?

Steve

Safer.

On 1/2/2012 8:01 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 19:55:16 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 1/2/2012 9:36 AM, Home Guy wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

I think smoke inhalation in house fires kill more people than
homicides involving guns.

What a stupid-ass comparison.

That's like saying old-age kills more people than guns.

It does, heck, heart disease is the number one killer in The U.S., I
don't know about Canuckstan, up there the number one cause of death is
probably due to being eaten by a polar bear. ^_^

It's a good thing "global warming" is killing 'em all, eh?


No, it must be indigestion or food poisoning from eating all those
P.L.L.C.F. who infest the area. ^_^

TDD

On 1/2/2012 7:25 PM, Frank wrote:
On 1/1/2012 9:48 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 1/1/2012 7:57 PM, Home Guy wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't
heard any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet.

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your country
is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...

--------------

GEE! You're right, we need to take all guns away from the police because
they kill so many innocent citizens. Darn, the military
has lots of guns, they kill lots of people, we need to take those
away too. Lets see, there are over 300 million of us gun loving
nut jobs in The United States so there must be hundreds of thousands
of people killed by guns in this country every year and we have to
get rid of everything that may take an innocent life. Let me think
of all the dangerous items we have here that kill people, hummmm...
Darn! It's a very big list, it'll take some time. o_O

TDD

Didn't Myth Busters do a story where they shot bullets straight up in
the air and determined that they did not have lethal force when they hit
the ground? I recall penetration was minor.

I figure that the deaths that occur are probably from bullets shot at 45
degree angles or less which could be lethal.

Yep, and I recall a tragic death of a young woman in New York years ago
when a fellow fired a rifle out into the water at a harbor. The bullet
skipped off the water, entered through the open back window of a passing
car a mile away and pierced the skull behind the ear of the young woman
who was driving the car. An amazing detective figured out what happened.

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:

On 1/2/2012 7:25 PM, Frank wrote:

-snip-

I figure that the deaths that occur are probably from bullets shot at 45
degree angles or less which could be lethal.

Yep, and I recall a tragic death of a young woman in New York years ago
when a fellow fired a rifle out into the water at a harbor. The bullet
skipped off the water, entered through the open back window of a passing
car a mile away and pierced the skull behind the ear of the young woman
who was driving the car. An amazing detective figured out what happened.

Don't need to use the way-back machine. a month or so ago-
1.5miles- muzzle loader accidental discharge- through a buggy roof and
an Amish girl.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/nation...w6O_story.html

Jim

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 21:40:44 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

Interestingly, it's illegal to buy a gun (as a gift, for instance)
for someone else, even a spouse. I would never do such a thing.
"Of course the pink revolver is for me, sweetie.".


In what benighted jurisdiction is that true? There's a difference in
intent between a straw-purchase and a gift purchase and, inasmuch as
"intent" is a necessary element of every criminal offense, if you
intend the weapon as a gift, no foul.

Vermont. I was told it was federal. They told me the same thing here
in Alabama. The name on the yellow-sheet was for the end user. I
mentioned, both times how silly it was since it was perfectly legal
for me to transfer it after. ...and my wife? Oh, she was told the
same thing when she said she was going to buy one for me. Nope. No
can do. I only assumed it was federal. It couldn't be a Vermont gun
law. They don't have any. ;-)


Don't listen to fools.

From the ATF publication, "Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide"

"An example of an illegal straw purchase is as follows: Mr. Smith asks Mr.
Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the
money for the firearm. If Mr. Jones fills out Form 4473, he violates the
law by falsely stating that he is the actual buyer of the firearm. Mr. Smith
also violates the law because he has unlawfully aided and abetted or caused
the making of false statements on the form.

"Where a person purchases a firearm with the intent of making a gift of the
firearm to another person, the person making the purchase is indeed the true
purchaser. There is no straw purchaser in these instances. In the above
example, if Mr. Jones had bought a firearm with his own money to give to Mr.
Smith as a birthday present, Mr. Jones could lawfully have completed Form
4473. The use of gift certificates would also not fall within the category
of straw purchases. The person redeeming the gift certificate would be the
actual purchaser of the firearm and would be properly reflected as such in
the dealer's records."

http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-4.pdf

(The above presumes the buyer has no knowledge that the eventual recipient
is prohibited from owning the weapon. That is the giftee is not a felon,
alien, non-resident, or smells funny.)

Federal law certainly allows you can buy a gun as a present or to
overcome some other disability.

How else does a 12-year old get his first .22? Or his first Barrett
50-cal?

He doesn't. His parents do.

Nope. A 12-year old, under federal law, can legally OWN a gun, he just can't
buy one. This oddity shows up often when 20-year olds become police
officers. Usually, the department buys the gun for the officer.

I shot a branch off a tree, one time. The branch was rubbing power wires.
Used a 12 gage shotgun, and a deer slug. The farmer (who owned the gun and
the tree) had tried a couple rounds of bird shot, which didn't work.

I've used guns to make vent holes in trash burning barrels. Same farmer,
same shotgun.

Read of one fellow who used a M-16 to make a vent hole in his brick chimney.

I've spent many a day at the shooting range, knocking down empty shotgun
shells, or bouncing pieces of wood around, for recreation. Used to borrow a
..22RF rifle from a fellow I know.

I've also done pest control (woodchuck / groundhog) for farmers. Farmers who
don't need or want holes in the ground. (No humans were injured in this
activity). Different farmer, and he had a bolt action Remmington .222 I was
able to use.

So far, zero stupid accidents, and zero mass murders. Someday, I've got to
buy a gun. Yeah, I keep saying I ought to have one around. Maybe next year.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
harry wrote:
Guns are designed to kill, they have no other purpose. We don't need
them.

While they are about, stupid accidents occur and nutters are able to
commit mass murder.

Guns have no other purpose than killing? Absurd. I can think of a half-dozen
reasons for the existence of guns that do not involve killing other humans:

* Competitive shooting - Shooting IS an Olympic sport
* Hunting
* Historical and educational resource
* Investment
* Self defense
* Deterrence
* Orgasm assistance

and more

Seriously good thing someone had a handgun.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...

You forgot to mention- shooting the window out of a car in a raging
river-

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...cue/52328646/1
"SALT LAKE CITY (AP) - Former police officer Chris Willden didn't
hesitate when he realized children were trapped in an upside down car
in an icy Utah river. He pulled his handgun, pushed it up against the
submerged windows and shot out the glass."

Jim

On 1/3/2012 7:12 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I shot a branch off a tree, one time. The branch was rubbing power wires.
Used a 12 gage shotgun, and a deer slug. The farmer (who owned the gun and
the tree) had tried a couple rounds of bird shot, which didn't work.

I've used guns to make vent holes in trash burning barrels. Same farmer,
same shotgun.

Read of one fellow who used a M-16 to make a vent hole in his brick chimney.

I've spent many a day at the shooting range, knocking down empty shotgun
shells, or bouncing pieces of wood around, for recreation. Used to borrow a
.22RF rifle from a fellow I know.

I've also done pest control (woodchuck / groundhog) for farmers. Farmers who
don't need or want holes in the ground. (No humans were injured in this
activity). Different farmer, and he had a bolt action Remmington .222 I was
able to use.

So far, zero stupid accidents, and zero mass murders. Someday, I've got to
buy a gun. Yeah, I keep saying I ought to have one around. Maybe next year.


I know a guy who grew up in Alaska and he and the other school kids
carried guns to school. When they got to school, their guns went into
their lockers along with their arctic gear, the snow shoes were probably
too big to fit in their lockers. The guns had something to do with
keeping bears and wolves from eating them on their way to school. There
was never a fight or any violence at the school involving guns. ^_^

TDD

"Home Guy" wrote in message ...
The Daring Dufas wrote:

I think smoke inhalation in house fires kill more people than
homicides involving guns.

What a stupid-ass comparison.

That's like saying old-age kills more people than guns.

Actually, stupidity as you demonstrate has killed far more
Too bad it hasn't caught up wit you yet
But hey, it's a new year

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Jan 2, 1:57 am, Home Guy wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't
heard any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet.

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your country
is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...

--------------

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...boy-in-coma-af...

Ruskin boy in coma after being struck by celebratory New Year's gunfire

Posted: Jan 01, 2012 04:19 PM


Benifits of US gun culture.

Has nothing to do with an alleged "gun culture'
But your response has to do with ignorance and stupidity mixed with a
healthy dose of bigotry.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Jan 2, 2:28 pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 1/2/2012 2:24 AM, harry wrote:





On Jan 2, 1:57 am, Home wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
I started hearing semiautomatic gunfire about 6:30pm. I haven't
heard any bullets land on the roof or vehicles yet.

How many stories like this can happen, day after day, year after year,
and you gun-loving fools can say with a straight face that your
country
is a better place because of your constitutional right to own
firearms...

--------------

http://www.tampabay.com/news/publics...boy-in-coma-af...

Ruskin boy in coma after being struck by celebratory New Year's
gunfire

Posted: Jan 01, 2012 04:19 PM

RUSKIN (near Tampa Bay I guess) — Diego Duran stood on his family's
front lawn to watch New Year's Eve fireworks cut through the darkness,
snapping and popping in the air over their Ruskin home.

As the bright bursts of light fell and faded after midnight, a bullet
dropped with them.

Diego's mother saw her son collapse to the ground. His sisters and a
friend thought at first he was joking.

But when Sandra Duran knelt to check on her 12-year-old son, she
became
covered in blood that poured from his nose and eyes. She drove Diego
to
South Bay Hospital in Sun City Center, where doctors found he had been
shot in the top of his head. No one knows where the bullet came from,
but authorities believe it was fired from miles away in a new year's
celebration.

"Here we have a 12-year-old kid fighting for his life because he
happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time," said
Hillsborough
County sheriff's spokesman Larry McKinnon. Detectives spoke with
Diego's family and neighbors Sunday morning and determined that no one
in the immediate vicinity of the home had been firing a gun at the
time,
around 1 a.m. Sunday, according to officials.

"The bullet was quite a large one," said family friend Dee Sims. "They
said it could have come from 2 or 3 miles away."

Diego was later taken to Tampa General Hospital, where he remained in
critical condition Sunday evening. His mother was at his side all day
as
he lay in a coma, Sims said, the bullet still lodged under his eye.

Sandra and her husband, Diego Sr., have rented a small home for eight
years behind Sims' 10-acre farm property. The boy has two sisters,
Genesis, 14, and Grace, 16, Sims said. Like his sisters, Diego is an A
student. He loves football and baseball and lately has become a fan of
skateboarding, she said.

The farming community where they live has its share of gun owners and
hunters, Sims said. Celebratory gunfire isn't unusual. "We hear it
all
the time," Sims said. "I don't know why people do things like that."
The firing of weapons into the air in celebration is not an uncommon
practice, particularly among immigrants from countries where there are
few or no laws prohibiting it.

It's illegal in most states, including Florida. Authorities often
remind
people not to do it. "Nationally it's a huge issue," McKinnon said.
"What somebody thinks is a cheap form of fun and entertainment, it has
potentially catastrophic consequences."

Still, it happens.

Last year, a 6-year-old boy was hit and injured by a stray bullet
during
a New Year's Eve celebration he was attending with his parents at a
Miami restaurant. In 2007, a 69-year-old Plantation man was killed in
his back yard on New Year's Day by a stray rifle bullet.

A 2006 incident in which two people were shot during a New Year's Eve
celebration in Delray Beach led then-state House Majority Leader Adam
Hasner to introduce a bill increasing the penalty for firing a gun
into
the air. The bill did not pass, and the maximum penalty for firing
into
the air remains a year in jail.

But if someone is hurt or killed, the consequences are much greater.
The lethality of a bullet depends on the trajectory at which it is
fired, as well as the speed at which it falls. If fired at a
non-vertical angle, it maintains enough speed to do damage.

"Some of them go over a mile high," McKinnon said. "Depending on the
angle of the bullet, it could come down a couple of miles away."

Detectives want to talk to anyone who might know of someone who was
firing any type of weapon into the air early Sunday morning in the
Ruskin area. Anyone with information is asked to call the Hillsborough
County Sheriff's Office at (813) 247-8200.

Benifits of US gun culture.

Harry, you want to help me with my "Ban Mechanized Transportation"
movement. So many people are killed all over the world because of
Transportation Nuts and we must put a stop to it. The battle against
TN's is in its infancy but I'm sure if the right celebrities behind
it we can put a stop to deaths caused by Mechanized Transportation!

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We need transport. It isnot designed to kill.

And yet they kill far more nonetheless..


Guns are designed to kill, they have no other purpose. We don't need
them.

WRONG as usual
Guns are NOT "designed to kill"
Guns are simply designed to send an object downrange.
If, as you claim guns were "designed to kill" then, considering that over
8,000,000,000 (yes, that's BILLION) rounds fired from 300,000,000+ guns
would kill far more people than cars which are allegedly NOT "designed to
kill".



While they are about, stupid accidents occur and nutters are able to
commit mass murder.

Considering that there are annually about 500 "stupid accidents" with guns,
compared to over 42,000 "stupid accidents" with cars, you simply confuse
your bigoted ignorance with thought.
By the way, the largest "mass murders" in the US were not committed with
guns
Dynamite, ANFO, gasoline & matches, and aircraft are way ahead in that
area.




But thanks for giving us a chance to once again demonstrate how stupid you
really are...

On Jan 2, 10:33*am, Home Guy wrote:
RosemontCrest wrote:
Yup. We need to suspend the constitutionally-protected freedoms of
all law-abiding citizens because of the occasional, irresponsible
abuses of only a few people. Gee, that makes sense... Sigh.

Yea, just like so many of your rights have been taken from you as you
partake in air travel.

And note that the TSA is not just in airports. *They are expanding their
presence on your highways, bus, train and subway stations. *You no
longer have the right to liberty - which is (in part) the free(1) and
anonymous travel within your own country.

(1) by free, I mean free of identity-checking, presentation of
documents, searches of your person or property.

Tell me what is more important.

The right to bear arms, or your liberty - the right to travel and move
about *in your own country* without the gov't knowing and tracking and
sanctioning your every trip.

You accuse others of making bizarre comparisons and
then you come up with this gem? You must have the USA
confused with the former Soviet Union or North Korea.
The govt is not sanctioning or tracking every trip. They do
stamp passports and TRY to keep track of who enters and
leaves the country. But those procedures and the TSA
screening procedures for flights are followed by every
country around the world, including those that have the
most restrictive gun laws. In fact, the countries with the
most restrictive gun laws, eg places like North Korea,
Cuba, China, former Soviet Union, also have the most
restrictions on free travel, including not letting anyone
leave at all.

So, why don't you make the countries that are really
denying the most basic human rights the focus of
your concern?




No, you can't un-do the right to bear arms. *Your society is permeated
with guns and you can't un-do that. *It was a bad decision on the part
of the founding fathers to put that in the constitution.

According to you. I've lived here and it's served me well.
You conveniently find one kid that was hit by a stray bullet.
Yes, that's terrible. But how about you also list all the lives
saved, the assaults and rapes that were prevented because
someone had the right to have a gun? And in most cases,
the gun isn't even used. Just displaying it was enough to
stop the crime. Why should a 90 pound woman be
denied the right to equalize the odds against a rapist
entering her home?



*You have to
live with it now - that is, unless you get shot by a gun and your "right
to life" has been taken from you.

The really sad thing is that you all feel that the fate of this 12
year-old boy is a justifiable cost in terms of the over-all benefit you
feel that you gain by having the right to bear arms. *A gain that none
of you can even explain.

I just did explain it.

On Jan 2, 11:35*pm, "
wrote:
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 21:40:44 -0600, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:

Interestingly, it's illegal to buy a gun (as a gift, for instance)
for someone else, even a spouse. *I would never do such a thing. *"Of
course the pink revolver is for me, sweetie.".

In what benighted jurisdiction is that true? There's a difference in intent
between a straw-purchase and a gift purchase and, inasmuch as "intent" is a
necessary element of every criminal offense, if you intend the weapon as a
gift, no foul.

Vermont. I was told it was federal. *They told me the same thing here in
Alabama. *The name on the yellow-sheet was for the end user. *I mentioned,
both times how silly it was since it was perfectly legal for me to transfer it
after. *...and my wife? *Oh, she was told the same thing when she said she was
going to buy one for me. *Nope. *No can do. *I only assumed it was federal. It
couldn't be a Vermont gun law. *They don't have any. *;-)

Federal law certainly allows you can buy a gun as a present or to overcome
some other disability.

How else does a 12-year old get his first .22? Or his first Barrett 50-cal?

He doesn't. *His parents do.

I think the issue here is that the law is being interpreted
in ways that were never intended. The law is designed
to prevent a straw purchase where someone is buying
a gun at the request of another. The simplest
solution is for the husband to take the wife to the gun store
and have her listed as the buyer and actually pay for it
with money that he gave her. That means that the
wife has to meet all the reqts for the purchase. Problem solved.
What's so hard about that?

On Jan 3, 12:35*pm, "
wrote:
On Jan 2, 11:35*pm, "





wrote:
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 21:40:44 -0600, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:

Interestingly, it's illegal to buy a gun (as a gift, for instance)
for someone else, even a spouse. *I would never do such a thing. *"Of
course the pink revolver is for me, sweetie.".

In what benighted jurisdiction is that true? There's a difference in intent
between a straw-purchase and a gift purchase and, inasmuch as "intent" is a
necessary element of every criminal offense, if you intend the weapon as a
gift, no foul.

Vermont. I was told it was federal. *They told me the same thing here in
Alabama. *The name on the yellow-sheet was for the end user. *I mentioned,
both times how silly it was since it was perfectly legal for me to transfer it
after. *...and my wife? *Oh, she was told the same thing when she said she was
going to buy one for me. *Nope. *No can do. *I only assumed it was federal. It
couldn't be a Vermont gun law. *They don't have any. *;-)

Federal law certainly allows you can buy a gun as a present or to overcome
some other disability.

How else does a 12-year old get his first .22? Or his first Barrett 50-cal?

He doesn't. *His parents do.

I think the issue here is that the law is being interpreted
in ways that were never intended. *The law is designed
to prevent a straw purchase where someone is buying
a gun at the request of another. * The simplest
solution is for the husband to take the wife to the gun store
and have her listed as the buyer and actually pay for it
with money that he gave her. *That means that the
wife has to meet all the reqts for the purchase. *Problem solved.
What's so hard about that?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I decided to go look for federal form 4473 which is the
actual form the firearms dealer must have completed
prior to purchase. The answer to the issue in question
is absolutely clear. Under federal law, it is perfectly
legal to buy a firearm as a GIFT. It is excluded as
being a straw purchase:

From the Q/A contained on the actual form:

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

Question lI.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this fonn. you
arc
the actual transferee/buyer if you arc purchasing the fireann for
yourself or
otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the
firearm /rom
pawn/retrieving itFom consignment. firearm raffle winner). Yo~ arc
als~ the
aetnal transferee/buyer if you arc legitimately purchasing the
fireanll as a gift
for a third pany. ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr.
Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smifh. Mr. Smifh
gives Mr.
Jones the money for the tirearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL
TRANSFEREE/
BUYER of the fireanll and mnst answer "NO" to question I La. The
lkensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr.
Brown
goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a
present,
Ivlr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should
answer
"YES" to question ll.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any
person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited
under 18
U.S.c. § 922(g), (n), or (x). Please uote: EXCEPTION: If you are
picking
up a repaired firearm(s) for another person. you are not required to
answer
II .a. and may proceed to question I I. b.