Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might
be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/24/2011 9:18 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might
be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


Considering that there are hundreds of thousands of similar panels out
there, why should there be a course of action? It's an old and crappy
panel, but unless you find any particular defect in it, just leave it
alone.

RBM wrote:

On 12/24/2011 9:18 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might
be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


Considering that there are hundreds of thousands of similar panels out
there, why should there be a course of action? It's an old and crappy
panel, but unless you find any particular defect in it, just leave it
alone.

If it's a trailer it shouldn't be a very big panel. I'd bet you could
replace it with a top of the line QO panel and breakers for perhaps
$100. Cheap peace of mind given just how crappy the bus connection is on
those stab-loc panels. Much higher quality breakers as well given the
propensity of the stab-loc breakers to fail.

Branch circuit receptacles in mobile homes scare the fsk out of me. One
thing I'd never do is use high draw appliances like a space heaters,
electric griddles or toasters. And if there is ***any*** flickering on a
circuit I'd get it fixed immediately.

On 12/24/2011 9:18 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might
be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

On Dec 24, 9:18*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might
be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

nicknamed the fire starter federal pacific falsified test data to get
UL approval and ultimately went out of business.

the panels were poor quality and tended to catch on fire, worse the
breakers often dont trip on a overload, or once a breaker trips once
is like 30% less likely to EVER trip again.

That panel is a severe fire hazard, and should be replaced
immediately.

many homeowners insurance companies refuse to insure homes with FP
panels.

if you doubt any of this just google it

On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 21:18:13 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might
be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

Check for condition. As long as there is no sign of
arcing/overheating where the breakers clip on leave well enough alone.

On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 21:57:42 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


RBM wrote:

On 12/24/2011 9:18 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might
be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


Considering that there are hundreds of thousands of similar panels out
there, why should there be a course of action? It's an old and crappy
panel, but unless you find any particular defect in it, just leave it
alone.

If it's a trailer it shouldn't be a very big panel. I'd bet you could
replace it with a top of the line QO panel and breakers for perhaps
$100. Cheap peace of mind given just how crappy the bus connection is on
those stab-loc panels. Much higher quality breakers as well given the
propensity of the stab-loc breakers to fail.
QO breakers fail too.
The recommendations I'm getting up here - most electricians are using
Seimens

On 12/24/2011 11:25 PM, bob haller wrote:
On Dec 24, 9:18 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might
be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

nicknamed the fire starter federal pacific falsified test data to get
UL approval and ultimately went out of business.

FPE was sold to Reliance Electric and is still being made (and
apparently reliable) in Canada.
FPE falsified data to continue UL listing before it was sold to Reliance.


the panels were poor quality and tended to catch on fire, worse the
breakers often dont trip on a overload, or once a breaker trips once
is like 30% less likely to EVER trip again.

There were problems with some of the breakers FPE made. The CPSC started
an investigation which turned up problems but the investigation was
dropped (probably not based on merit). Specific problems were some
breakers not tripping at 130% of rated load and some 2-pole breakers
jamming where the overload was not equal on both legs. Far as I know the
problem covered breakers produced in a particular time span - which you
can't identify.

There were also problems with screwed together busses.


That panel is a severe fire hazard, and should be replaced
immediately.

The usual overstatement. Panels may or may not be OK (other than being
"crappy"). If I had one I would replace it. I believe Cutler Hammer used
to make replacement 'guts'.

--
bud--

They are unsafe.
http://www.inspectapedia.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm
Need to be taken out, and replaced with a newer, safer panel.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"RBM" wrote in message
...

Considering that there are hundreds of thousands of similar panels out
there, why should there be a course of action? It's an old and crappy
panel, but unless you find any particular defect in it, just leave it
alone.

For sure! Glad someone else knew.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Pete C." wrote in message
.com...

If it's a trailer it shouldn't be a very big panel. I'd bet you could
replace it with a top of the line QO panel and breakers for perhaps
$100. Cheap peace of mind given just how crappy the bus connection is on
those stab-loc panels. Much higher quality breakers as well given the
propensity of the stab-loc breakers to fail.

Of course, some people replace the receptacles, and put in better quality
ones. The mobile home builders use the cheapest ones they can find.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Top Poster Too" wrote in message
...
Branch circuit receptacles in mobile homes scare the fsk out of me. One
thing I'd never do is use high draw appliances like a space heaters,
electric griddles or toasters. And if there is ***any*** flickering on a
circuit I'd get it fixed immediately.

I was trolling, knew all that already. You are so, so right.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

nicknamed the fire starter federal pacific falsified test data to get
UL approval and ultimately went out of business.

the panels were poor quality and tended to catch on fire, worse the
breakers often dont trip on a overload, or once a breaker trips once
is like 30% less likely to EVER trip again.

That panel is a severe fire hazard, and should be replaced
immediately.

many homeowners insurance companies refuse to insure homes with FP
panels.

if you doubt any of this just google it

My friend isn't taking any chances, the panel box is being replaced in the
next few days.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"bud--" wrote in message
...

That panel is a severe fire hazard, and should be replaced
immediately.

The usual overstatement. Panels may or may not be OK (other than being
"crappy"). If I had one I would replace it. I believe Cutler Hammer used
to make replacement 'guts'.

--
bud--

On 12/25/2011 9:48 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
They are unsafe.
http://www.inspectapedia.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm
Need to be taken out, and replaced with a newer, safer panel.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

wrote in message
...

Considering that there are hundreds of thousands of similar panels out
there, why should there be a course of action? It's an old and crappy
panel, but unless you find any particular defect in it, just leave it
alone.


I'm sure if you search, you'll find similar opinions of many breakers
and panels. I'm all for changing any crappy panel including FPE, Frank
Adams, Zinsco, Bulldog pushmatic, to name a few. FPE was made in Newark,
NJ so my area of downstate NY is crawling with their equipment. I
personally have seen more burnouts in Murray panels, a well respected
brand then I've seen in crappy FPE panels, in my 40 years as an
electrician. I have never seen any fire related to a FPE panel or
breaker, including ones that have failed. IMO the primary reason to
replace FPE equipment is that their breakers now cost about 5 times what
every other manufacturer charges.

wrote:

On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 21:57:42 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


RBM wrote:

On 12/24/2011 9:18 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might
be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


Considering that there are hundreds of thousands of similar panels out
there, why should there be a course of action? It's an old and crappy
panel, but unless you find any particular defect in it, just leave it
alone.

If it's a trailer it shouldn't be a very big panel. I'd bet you could
replace it with a top of the line QO panel and breakers for perhaps
$100. Cheap peace of mind given just how crappy the bus connection is on
those stab-loc panels. Much higher quality breakers as well given the
propensity of the stab-loc breakers to fail.

QO breakers fail too.

When I start seeing failures with my QO installations I'll consider
using something else.

The recommendations I'm getting up here - most electricians are using
Seimens

They seem to be good but not as readily available around here.

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer,
with a Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot
why this might be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action?

Modern replacement breakers are available to fit the "Stab-loc" boxes. If
your friend can't afford a new box + inspection fees for
disconnecting/connecting the service, new breakers might be the ticket.

Jon

On Dec 25, 3:15*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer,
with a Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot
why this might be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action?

Modern replacement breakers are available to fit the "Stab-loc" boxes. *If
your friend can't afford a new box + inspection fees for
disconnecting/connecting the service, new breakers might be the ticket.

Jon

at 25 bucks per 15 amp single pole canadian FPE breaker a new panel
might be cheaper

On 12/25/2011 3:40 PM, bob haller wrote:
....

at 25 bucks per 15 amp single pole canadian FPE breaker a new panel
might be cheaper

There are listed 3rd-party replacemsnts locally for about the same as
others I've seen here not terribly long ago...I don't recall the
manufacturer otomh, just noticed did have 'em. I've a stash OEM's from
before the series that got FPE in trouble so haven't actually need
replacements.

The Canadian replacements are pretty dear, granted.

--

On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 21:25:55 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

On Dec 24, 9:18Â*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might
be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
Â*www.lds.org
.

nicknamed the fire starter federal pacific falsified test data to get
UL approval and ultimately went out of business.

the panels were poor quality and tended to catch on fire, worse the
breakers often dont trip on a overload, or once a breaker trips once
is like 30% less likely to EVER trip again.

That panel is a severe fire hazard, and should be replaced
immediately.

many homeowners insurance companies refuse to insure homes with FP
panels.

if you doubt any of this just google it


FPE still sells (or did up untill about 3 months ago) panels in Canada
- there are hundreds of thousands of them in use, and only an VERY few
fires caused by them - and their failure rate here is about on par
with the Square D breakers. Both can be problematic - but if inspected
and found sound, there is no reason to replace the panel.
Replacement breakers that DO work reliably are available - and have
been for 10 or more years.

That could be a labor saver. Do you have a URL? I havn't heard of such.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Jon Danniken" wrote in message
...

Modern replacement breakers are available to fit the "Stab-loc" boxes. If
your friend can't afford a new box + inspection fees for
disconnecting/connecting the service, new breakers might be the ticket.

Jon

On 12/26/2011 12:10 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
That could be a labor saver. Do you have a URL? I havn't heard of such.

Just google "fedral pacific circuit breaker" you'll get a bizillion of
them. Here is one:

http://www.amazon.com/American-Feder.../dp/B000WUJ2RK

On 12/26/2011 7:12 AM, RBM wrote:
On 12/26/2011 12:10 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
That could be a labor saver. Do you have a URL? I havn't heard of such.

Just google "fedral pacific circuit breaker" you'll get a bizillion of
them. Here is one:

http://www.amazon.com/American-Feder.../dp/B000WUJ2RK




I rarely come across Federal Pacific panels here in Alabamastan and any
problems with them are the same problems that affect other brands of
circuit breaker panels. I see dirt and the biggest problem, corrosion of
the area where the breaker makes electrical contact with the buss. In
new construction or remodels I will often use contact cleaners to get
the construction dust off the connections. Something like Ideal Noalox
can be used to re-lube the the contacts. On a lot of service calls I
find corrosion and a soft bristle or brass bristle brush along with a
spray electrical cleaner will clean it up. In some cases the stab is
burnt and melted making it useless which is why I have kept old panels
in past years so I could swap out the buss bars. Sometimes a new panel
is less expensive than ordering new replacement buss bars if the old
panel has a lot of damage. I have seen FP replacement breakers at our
local big box hardware stores.

TDD

Thank you for taking the time to research that for me. Did you see that
breaker is $35. I doubt he has enough money to buy all new breakers, there
are 20 or so in the panel. And a couple double breakers, too. That would get
pricey.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"RBM" wrote in message
...
On 12/26/2011 12:10 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
That could be a labor saver. Do you have a URL? I havn't heard of such.

Just google "fedral pacific circuit breaker" you'll get a bizillion of
them. Here is one:

http://www.amazon.com/American-Feder.../dp/B000WUJ2RK

One friend, their lights would flicker now and again. Finally, one evening
we pulled the panel box open, the power came in through a double 100
breaker. Same design as the other breakers, but it was inlet. Turned the
breaker off, pried it out of the box (very dificult, as it was corroded on)
and wire brushed the bus bar tabs. Which were corroded. Apply No-Al-Ox and
put back together.

I tried Noalox on threads of a Mag light, but weeks later could not get the
tail cap off. Ended up using two pipe wrenches to open the cap of the mag
light. The Noalox had etched the metal, and I could see it pitted.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...

I rarely come across Federal Pacific panels here in Alabamastan and any
problems with them are the same problems that affect other brands of
circuit breaker panels. I see dirt and the biggest problem, corrosion of
the area where the breaker makes electrical contact with the buss. In
new construction or remodels I will often use contact cleaners to get
the construction dust off the connections. Something like Ideal Noalox
can be used to re-lube the the contacts. On a lot of service calls I
find corrosion and a soft bristle or brass bristle brush along with a
spray electrical cleaner will clean it up. In some cases the stab is
burnt and melted making it useless which is why I have kept old panels
in past years so I could swap out the buss bars. Sometimes a new panel
is less expensive than ordering new replacement buss bars if the old
panel has a lot of damage. I have seen FP replacement breakers at our
local big box hardware stores.

TDD

On 12/26/2011 10:02 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to research that for me. Did you see that
breaker is $35. I doubt he has enough money to buy all new breakers, there
are 20 or so in the panel. And a couple double breakers, too. That would get
pricey.

That is exactly what I posted as my primary reason for replacing a FPE
panel.

"dpb" wrote in message ...
On 12/25/2011 3:40 PM, bob haller wrote:
...

at 25 bucks per 15 amp single pole canadian FPE breaker a new panel
might be cheaper

There are listed 3rd-party replacemsnts locally for about the same as
others I've seen here not terribly long ago...I don't recall the
manufacturer otomh, just noticed did have 'em. I've a stash OEM's from
before the series that got FPE in trouble so haven't actually need
replacements.

The Canadian replacements are pretty dear, granted.

--

In Canada they are called Federal Pioneer, and the last time I bought some
breakers for FE they were quite cheap, and in align with other non-premium
breakers.

"EXT" wrote in message
news.com...

"dpb" wrote in message
...
On 12/25/2011 3:40 PM, bob haller wrote:
...

at 25 bucks per 15 amp single pole canadian FPE breaker a new panel
might be cheaper

There are listed 3rd-party replacemsnts locally for about the same as
others I've seen here not terribly long ago...I don't recall the
manufacturer otomh, just noticed did have 'em. I've a stash OEM's from
before the series that got FPE in trouble so haven't actually need
replacements.

The Canadian replacements are pretty dear, granted.

--

In Canada they are called Federal Pioneer, and the last time I bought some
breakers for FE they were quite cheap, and in align with other non-premium
breakers.

I just looked up in a Rona (Canadian big box store), and Federal Pioneer
breakers are $9.60 for a single and $17.70 for a double, all at 15 amp.

On 12/26/2011 9:06 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
One friend, their lights would flicker now and again. Finally, one evening
we pulled the panel box open, the power came in through a double 100
breaker. Same design as the other breakers, but it was inlet. Turned the
breaker off, pried it out of the box (very dificult, as it was corroded on)
and wire brushed the bus bar tabs. Which were corroded. Apply No-Al-Ox and
put back together.

I tried Noalox on threads of a Mag light, but weeks later could not get the
tail cap off. Ended up using two pipe wrenches to open the cap of the mag
light. The Noalox had etched the metal, and I could see it pitted.


I only use silicone dielectric grease on flashlights. You can get small
tubes of spark plug boot grease from the auto parts store which is the
same thing. ^_^

TDD

"RBM" wrote in message
...
On 12/26/2011 10:02 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to research that for me. Did you see that
breaker is $35. I doubt he has enough money to buy all new breakers,
there
are 20 or so in the panel. And a couple double breakers, too. That would
get
pricey.

In Canada they are less than $10.00 each, and that is retail, for larger
purchases an electrical wholesaler would be cheaper. Why are they so
expensive in the US?

RBM: Thanks for sharing your wisdom.

EXT: Your post appeared, but was not available on server. Please send it
again.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"RBM" wrote in message
...

That is exactly what I posted as my primary reason for replacing a FPE
panel.

On 12/26/2011 1:58 PM, EXT wrote:

"RBM" wrote in message
...
On 12/26/2011 10:02 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to research that for me. Did you see that
breaker is $35. I doubt he has enough money to buy all new breakers,
there
are 20 or so in the panel. And a couple double breakers, too. That
would get
pricey.

In Canada they are less than $10.00 each, and that is retail, for larger
purchases an electrical wholesaler would be cheaper. Why are they so
expensive in the US?

I have no idea. I noticed the price change about a year ago. My supply
house was charging a retail customer around $35 for a single pole 15 amp
breaker. I just assumed they were just hosing the guy until I needed a
double pole 30 amp.

The panel is flush in the wall, but Tim doesn't sound concerned. He's going
to make it happen some how, I'm sure. He just got finished building porch
addition to the trailer, so circuit panel won't be too hard.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"RBM" wrote in message
...
On 12/26/2011 10:02 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to research that for me. Did you see that
breaker is $35. I doubt he has enough money to buy all new breakers, there
are 20 or so in the panel. And a couple double breakers, too. That would
get
pricey.

That is exactly what I posted as my primary reason for replacing a FPE
panel.

On 12/25/2011 09:52 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Of course, some people replace the receptacles, and put in better quality
ones. The mobile home builders use the cheapest ones they can find.

Are they any worse than the ones typically used in homes? I don't think
I've ever seen "spec grade" receps in any house unless I put them in myself.

nate


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

So, are you saying that it makes more sense to replace a Stabloc, than to
buy all new breakers?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"RBM" wrote in message
...
On 12/26/2011 10:02 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to research that for me. Did you see that
breaker is $35. I doubt he has enough money to buy all new breakers, there
are 20 or so in the panel. And a couple double breakers, too. That would
get
pricey.

That is exactly what I posted as my primary reason for replacing a FPE
panel.