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Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action? Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
On 12/24/2011 9:18 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action? Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . Considering that there are hundreds of thousands of similar panels out there, why should there be a course of action? It's an old and crappy panel, but unless you find any particular defect in it, just leave it alone. |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
RBM wrote: On 12/24/2011 9:18 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote: Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action? Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . Considering that there are hundreds of thousands of similar panels out there, why should there be a course of action? It's an old and crappy panel, but unless you find any particular defect in it, just leave it alone. If it's a trailer it shouldn't be a very big panel. I'd bet you could replace it with a top of the line QO panel and breakers for perhaps $100. Cheap peace of mind given just how crappy the bus connection is on those stab-loc panels. Much higher quality breakers as well given the propensity of the stab-loc breakers to fail. |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
Branch circuit receptacles in mobile homes scare the fsk out of me. One
thing I'd never do is use high draw appliances like a space heaters, electric griddles or toasters. And if there is ***any*** flickering on a circuit I'd get it fixed immediately. On 12/24/2011 9:18 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote: Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action? Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
On Dec 24, 9:18*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action? Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus *www.lds.org . nicknamed the fire starter federal pacific falsified test data to get UL approval and ultimately went out of business. the panels were poor quality and tended to catch on fire, worse the breakers often dont trip on a overload, or once a breaker trips once is like 30% less likely to EVER trip again. That panel is a severe fire hazard, and should be replaced immediately. many homeowners insurance companies refuse to insure homes with FP panels. if you doubt any of this just google it |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 21:18:13 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action? Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . Check for condition. As long as there is no sign of arcing/overheating where the breakers clip on leave well enough alone. |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 21:57:42 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote: RBM wrote: On 12/24/2011 9:18 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote: Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action? Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . Considering that there are hundreds of thousands of similar panels out there, why should there be a course of action? It's an old and crappy panel, but unless you find any particular defect in it, just leave it alone. If it's a trailer it shouldn't be a very big panel. I'd bet you could replace it with a top of the line QO panel and breakers for perhaps $100. Cheap peace of mind given just how crappy the bus connection is on those stab-loc panels. Much higher quality breakers as well given the propensity of the stab-loc breakers to fail. QO breakers fail too. The recommendations I'm getting up here - most electricians are using Seimens |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
On 12/24/2011 11:25 PM, bob haller wrote:
On Dec 24, 9:18 pm, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action? Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . nicknamed the fire starter federal pacific falsified test data to get UL approval and ultimately went out of business. FPE was sold to Reliance Electric and is still being made (and apparently reliable) in Canada. FPE falsified data to continue UL listing before it was sold to Reliance. the panels were poor quality and tended to catch on fire, worse the breakers often dont trip on a overload, or once a breaker trips once is like 30% less likely to EVER trip again. There were problems with some of the breakers FPE made. The CPSC started an investigation which turned up problems but the investigation was dropped (probably not based on merit). Specific problems were some breakers not tripping at 130% of rated load and some 2-pole breakers jamming where the overload was not equal on both legs. Far as I know the problem covered breakers produced in a particular time span - which you can't identify. There were also problems with screwed together busses. That panel is a severe fire hazard, and should be replaced immediately. The usual overstatement. Panels may or may not be OK (other than being "crappy"). If I had one I would replace it. I believe Cutler Hammer used to make replacement 'guts'. -- bud-- |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
They are unsafe.
http://www.inspectapedia.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm Need to be taken out, and replaced with a newer, safer panel. Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "RBM" wrote in message ... Considering that there are hundreds of thousands of similar panels out there, why should there be a course of action? It's an old and crappy panel, but unless you find any particular defect in it, just leave it alone. |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
For sure! Glad someone else knew.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Pete C." wrote in message .com... If it's a trailer it shouldn't be a very big panel. I'd bet you could replace it with a top of the line QO panel and breakers for perhaps $100. Cheap peace of mind given just how crappy the bus connection is on those stab-loc panels. Much higher quality breakers as well given the propensity of the stab-loc breakers to fail. |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
Of course, some people replace the receptacles, and put in better quality
ones. The mobile home builders use the cheapest ones they can find. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Top Poster Too" wrote in message ... Branch circuit receptacles in mobile homes scare the fsk out of me. One thing I'd never do is use high draw appliances like a space heaters, electric griddles or toasters. And if there is ***any*** flickering on a circuit I'd get it fixed immediately. |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
I was trolling, knew all that already. You are so, so right.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "bob haller" wrote in message ... nicknamed the fire starter federal pacific falsified test data to get UL approval and ultimately went out of business. the panels were poor quality and tended to catch on fire, worse the breakers often dont trip on a overload, or once a breaker trips once is like 30% less likely to EVER trip again. That panel is a severe fire hazard, and should be replaced immediately. many homeowners insurance companies refuse to insure homes with FP panels. if you doubt any of this just google it |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
My friend isn't taking any chances, the panel box is being replaced in the
next few days. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "bud--" wrote in message ... That panel is a severe fire hazard, and should be replaced immediately. The usual overstatement. Panels may or may not be OK (other than being "crappy"). If I had one I would replace it. I believe Cutler Hammer used to make replacement 'guts'. -- bud-- |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
On 12/25/2011 9:48 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
They are unsafe. http://www.inspectapedia.com/fpe/fpepanel.htm Need to be taken out, and replaced with a newer, safer panel. Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . wrote in message ... Considering that there are hundreds of thousands of similar panels out there, why should there be a course of action? It's an old and crappy panel, but unless you find any particular defect in it, just leave it alone. I'm sure if you search, you'll find similar opinions of many breakers and panels. I'm all for changing any crappy panel including FPE, Frank Adams, Zinsco, Bulldog pushmatic, to name a few. FPE was made in Newark, NJ so my area of downstate NY is crawling with their equipment. I personally have seen more burnouts in Murray panels, a well respected brand then I've seen in crappy FPE panels, in my 40 years as an electrician. I have never seen any fire related to a FPE panel or breaker, including ones that have failed. IMO the primary reason to replace FPE equipment is that their breakers now cost about 5 times what every other manufacturer charges. |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action? Modern replacement breakers are available to fit the "Stab-loc" boxes. If your friend can't afford a new box + inspection fees for disconnecting/connecting the service, new breakers might be the ticket. Jon |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
On Dec 25, 3:15*pm, "Jon Danniken"
wrote: Stormin Mormon wrote: Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action? Modern replacement breakers are available to fit the "Stab-loc" boxes. *If your friend can't afford a new box + inspection fees for disconnecting/connecting the service, new breakers might be the ticket. Jon at 25 bucks per 15 amp single pole canadian FPE breaker a new panel might be cheaper |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
On 12/25/2011 3:40 PM, bob haller wrote:
.... at 25 bucks per 15 amp single pole canadian FPE breaker a new panel might be cheaper There are listed 3rd-party replacemsnts locally for about the same as others I've seen here not terribly long ago...I don't recall the manufacturer otomh, just noticed did have 'em. I've a stash OEM's from before the series that got FPE in trouble so haven't actually need replacements. The Canadian replacements are pretty dear, granted. -- |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 21:25:55 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote: On Dec 24, 9:18Â*pm, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: Today I discovered that a friend (who I value) lives in a trailer, with a Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc breaker panel. Who can spot why this might be a concern? What is the reccomended course of action? Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus Â*www.lds.org . nicknamed the fire starter federal pacific falsified test data to get UL approval and ultimately went out of business. the panels were poor quality and tended to catch on fire, worse the breakers often dont trip on a overload, or once a breaker trips once is like 30% less likely to EVER trip again. That panel is a severe fire hazard, and should be replaced immediately. many homeowners insurance companies refuse to insure homes with FP panels. if you doubt any of this just google it FPE still sells (or did up untill about 3 months ago) panels in Canada - there are hundreds of thousands of them in use, and only an VERY few fires caused by them - and their failure rate here is about on par with the Square D breakers. Both can be problematic - but if inspected and found sound, there is no reason to replace the panel. Replacement breakers that DO work reliably are available - and have been for 10 or more years. |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
That could be a labor saver. Do you have a URL? I havn't heard of such.
-- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Jon Danniken" wrote in message ... Modern replacement breakers are available to fit the "Stab-loc" boxes. If your friend can't afford a new box + inspection fees for disconnecting/connecting the service, new breakers might be the ticket. Jon |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
On 12/26/2011 12:10 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
That could be a labor saver. Do you have a URL? I havn't heard of such. Just google "fedral pacific circuit breaker" you'll get a bizillion of them. Here is one: http://www.amazon.com/American-Feder.../dp/B000WUJ2RK |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
On 12/26/2011 7:12 AM, RBM wrote:
On 12/26/2011 12:10 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote: That could be a labor saver. Do you have a URL? I havn't heard of such. Just google "fedral pacific circuit breaker" you'll get a bizillion of them. Here is one: http://www.amazon.com/American-Feder.../dp/B000WUJ2RK I rarely come across Federal Pacific panels here in Alabamastan and any problems with them are the same problems that affect other brands of circuit breaker panels. I see dirt and the biggest problem, corrosion of the area where the breaker makes electrical contact with the buss. In new construction or remodels I will often use contact cleaners to get the construction dust off the connections. Something like Ideal Noalox can be used to re-lube the the contacts. On a lot of service calls I find corrosion and a soft bristle or brass bristle brush along with a spray electrical cleaner will clean it up. In some cases the stab is burnt and melted making it useless which is why I have kept old panels in past years so I could swap out the buss bars. Sometimes a new panel is less expensive than ordering new replacement buss bars if the old panel has a lot of damage. I have seen FP replacement breakers at our local big box hardware stores. TDD |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
Thank you for taking the time to research that for me. Did you see that
breaker is $35. I doubt he has enough money to buy all new breakers, there are 20 or so in the panel. And a couple double breakers, too. That would get pricey. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "RBM" wrote in message ... On 12/26/2011 12:10 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote: That could be a labor saver. Do you have a URL? I havn't heard of such. Just google "fedral pacific circuit breaker" you'll get a bizillion of them. Here is one: http://www.amazon.com/American-Feder.../dp/B000WUJ2RK |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
One friend, their lights would flicker now and again. Finally, one evening
we pulled the panel box open, the power came in through a double 100 breaker. Same design as the other breakers, but it was inlet. Turned the breaker off, pried it out of the box (very dificult, as it was corroded on) and wire brushed the bus bar tabs. Which were corroded. Apply No-Al-Ox and put back together. I tried Noalox on threads of a Mag light, but weeks later could not get the tail cap off. Ended up using two pipe wrenches to open the cap of the mag light. The Noalox had etched the metal, and I could see it pitted. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ... I rarely come across Federal Pacific panels here in Alabamastan and any problems with them are the same problems that affect other brands of circuit breaker panels. I see dirt and the biggest problem, corrosion of the area where the breaker makes electrical contact with the buss. In new construction or remodels I will often use contact cleaners to get the construction dust off the connections. Something like Ideal Noalox can be used to re-lube the the contacts. On a lot of service calls I find corrosion and a soft bristle or brass bristle brush along with a spray electrical cleaner will clean it up. In some cases the stab is burnt and melted making it useless which is why I have kept old panels in past years so I could swap out the buss bars. Sometimes a new panel is less expensive than ordering new replacement buss bars if the old panel has a lot of damage. I have seen FP replacement breakers at our local big box hardware stores. TDD |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
On 12/26/2011 10:02 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Thank you for taking the time to research that for me. Did you see that breaker is $35. I doubt he has enough money to buy all new breakers, there are 20 or so in the panel. And a couple double breakers, too. That would get pricey. That is exactly what I posted as my primary reason for replacing a FPE panel. |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
"dpb" wrote in message ... On 12/25/2011 3:40 PM, bob haller wrote: ... at 25 bucks per 15 amp single pole canadian FPE breaker a new panel might be cheaper There are listed 3rd-party replacemsnts locally for about the same as others I've seen here not terribly long ago...I don't recall the manufacturer otomh, just noticed did have 'em. I've a stash OEM's from before the series that got FPE in trouble so haven't actually need replacements. The Canadian replacements are pretty dear, granted. -- In Canada they are called Federal Pioneer, and the last time I bought some breakers for FE they were quite cheap, and in align with other non-premium breakers. |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
"EXT" wrote in message news.com... "dpb" wrote in message ... On 12/25/2011 3:40 PM, bob haller wrote: ... at 25 bucks per 15 amp single pole canadian FPE breaker a new panel might be cheaper There are listed 3rd-party replacemsnts locally for about the same as others I've seen here not terribly long ago...I don't recall the manufacturer otomh, just noticed did have 'em. I've a stash OEM's from before the series that got FPE in trouble so haven't actually need replacements. The Canadian replacements are pretty dear, granted. -- In Canada they are called Federal Pioneer, and the last time I bought some breakers for FE they were quite cheap, and in align with other non-premium breakers. I just looked up in a Rona (Canadian big box store), and Federal Pioneer breakers are $9.60 for a single and $17.70 for a double, all at 15 amp. |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
On 12/26/2011 9:06 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
One friend, their lights would flicker now and again. Finally, one evening we pulled the panel box open, the power came in through a double 100 breaker. Same design as the other breakers, but it was inlet. Turned the breaker off, pried it out of the box (very dificult, as it was corroded on) and wire brushed the bus bar tabs. Which were corroded. Apply No-Al-Ox and put back together. I tried Noalox on threads of a Mag light, but weeks later could not get the tail cap off. Ended up using two pipe wrenches to open the cap of the mag light. The Noalox had etched the metal, and I could see it pitted. I only use silicone dielectric grease on flashlights. You can get small tubes of spark plug boot grease from the auto parts store which is the same thing. ^_^ TDD |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
"RBM" wrote in message ... On 12/26/2011 10:02 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote: Thank you for taking the time to research that for me. Did you see that breaker is $35. I doubt he has enough money to buy all new breakers, there are 20 or so in the panel. And a couple double breakers, too. That would get pricey. In Canada they are less than $10.00 each, and that is retail, for larger purchases an electrical wholesaler would be cheaper. Why are they so expensive in the US? |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
RBM: Thanks for sharing your wisdom.
EXT: Your post appeared, but was not available on server. Please send it again. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "RBM" wrote in message ... That is exactly what I posted as my primary reason for replacing a FPE panel. |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
On 12/26/2011 1:58 PM, EXT wrote:
"RBM" wrote in message ... On 12/26/2011 10:02 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote: Thank you for taking the time to research that for me. Did you see that breaker is $35. I doubt he has enough money to buy all new breakers, there are 20 or so in the panel. And a couple double breakers, too. That would get pricey. In Canada they are less than $10.00 each, and that is retail, for larger purchases an electrical wholesaler would be cheaper. Why are they so expensive in the US? I have no idea. I noticed the price change about a year ago. My supply house was charging a retail customer around $35 for a single pole 15 amp breaker. I just assumed they were just hosing the guy until I needed a double pole 30 amp. |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
The panel is flush in the wall, but Tim doesn't sound concerned. He's going
to make it happen some how, I'm sure. He just got finished building porch addition to the trailer, so circuit panel won't be too hard. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "RBM" wrote in message ... On 12/26/2011 10:02 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote: Thank you for taking the time to research that for me. Did you see that breaker is $35. I doubt he has enough money to buy all new breakers, there are 20 or so in the panel. And a couple double breakers, too. That would get pricey. That is exactly what I posted as my primary reason for replacing a FPE panel. |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
On 12/25/2011 09:52 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Of course, some people replace the receptacles, and put in better quality ones. The mobile home builders use the cheapest ones they can find. Are they any worse than the ones typically used in homes? I don't think I've ever seen "spec grade" receps in any house unless I put them in myself. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
Federal Pacific Electric Stabloc
So, are you saying that it makes more sense to replace a Stabloc, than to
buy all new breakers? Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "RBM" wrote in message ... On 12/26/2011 10:02 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote: Thank you for taking the time to research that for me. Did you see that breaker is $35. I doubt he has enough money to buy all new breakers, there are 20 or so in the panel. And a couple double breakers, too. That would get pricey. That is exactly what I posted as my primary reason for replacing a FPE panel. |
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