We've sat through another extended (16 hr) power outage, and some around
here (north Jersey/NYC area) are still without power. This time it wasn't
hot or cold, but who knows what the next time will bring. Therefore I'd
like to buy a generator that can handle the fridge, a TV and the heating
system, or perhaps the A/C. This is a smallish single family home, ~1800
sq feet. I do realize that the heating system (natural gas-fired baseboard
hot water) and/or the A/C need special switching that I'd need an
electrician to install. A close friend used to work for an electrician, so
I could get expert advice and inspection for this.

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am thinking
of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all. Any recommendations
for brands/models from the cabal??

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Aug 29, 7:44*am, Han wrote:
We've sat through another extended (16 hr) power outage, and some around
here (north Jersey/NYC area) are still without power. *This time it wasn't
hot or cold, but who knows what the next time will bring. *Therefore I'd
like to buy a generator that can handle the fridge, a TV and the heating
system, or perhaps the A/C. *This is a smallish single family home, ~1800
sq feet. *I do realize that the heating system (natural gas-fired baseboard
hot water) and/or the A/C need special switching that I'd need an
electrician to install. *A close friend used to work for an electrician, so
I could get expert advice and inspection for this.

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am thinking
of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all. Any recommendations
for brands/models from the cabal??

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

natural gas with auto transfer capability. a permanent install always
ready to go. still pricey but way more affordable than years ago.

say yopur away from home in mid winter and the power fails.

On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:44:57 +0000, Han wrote:
Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am
thinking of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all. Any
recommendations for brands/models from the cabal?

Diesel, and run it on WVO when needed?

On Aug 29, 7:44*am, Han wrote:
We've sat through another extended (16 hr) power outage, and some around
here (north Jersey/NYC area) are still without power. *This time it wasn't
hot or cold, but who knows what the next time will bring. *Therefore I'd
like to buy a generator that can handle the fridge, a TV and the heating
system, or perhaps the A/C. *This is a smallish single family home, ~1800
sq feet. *I do realize that the heating system (natural gas-fired baseboard
hot water) and/or the A/C need special switching that I'd need an
electrician to install. *A close friend used to work for an electrician, so
I could get expert advice and inspection for this.

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am thinking
of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all. Any recommendations
for brands/models from the cabal??

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

It's all about what you are willing to spend. Take a look at
generators on the northen tool site. They are as good a price as
anyone.

If you do not want gasoline and you have nat gas you can get
generators that run on nat gas. The main convenience of gasoline is
that your generator is completely independent of your house. You need
it somewhere else move it. You move take it with you. Propane or
gasoline, you're still dealing with manual supply. Gasoline packs
more energy per unit and is easier to find after the storm that
propane.

Just to run the house excluding high resistive heating such as
electric stove/dryer and central ac you can get by with 4-5 kw. That
probably will run your nat gas heat too presuming all you have is
circulation pumps to contend with. If you have a gas dryer that will
work too. You can run an electric dryer on the no heat setting.
Figure $500 to $700 for a generator.

If you want to run the central ac and/or big resistive heat loads
you're closer to the 8-10kw range. You need some pretty serious surge
capacity to start the ac. Surge startup on a central ac can be 60 amps
or more. Look for units with a lot of surge. Unfortunately that
usually means more steady state amps than you will need. Downside of
that is higher fuel consuption at lower usage rates because the unit
is simply bigger. Figure $1200 to $2k.

Really good generators will run at 1800rpm instead of 3600rpm. These
last a lot longer. Often they are diesel instead of gas since it's
hard to get much hp out of gas engines at 1800rpm. Most of these will
be over $2k.

Transfer solutions also range in price. Auto start auto transfer is
pretty expensive. Grand or more. Manual transfer with a mechancal
lockout on the breaker panel can be as little as $150.

Personally I could not justify the several grand for a little more
convenience. I have a 4400w gasoline generator and it will run my
forced air gas heat but not my central ac. Not my electric oven or
dryer heat coils either. Runs most of the rest of the house fine
including the microwave. Cost was about $500.

http://www.green-trust.org/products/
(you'll have to look around the site) should have some good
advice on off grid generators.

Since you have NG, I'd look for a standby generator which is
NG power. The NG is typically very dependable.

There is likely to be HUGE rush on generators for the next
few months. You may be able to get one cheaply, used, in six
to twelve months. Also, good to wait for six months or so,
before buying. Now, during the rush, they will be full
retail.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Han" wrote in message
...
We've sat through another extended (16 hr) power outage, and
some around
here (north Jersey/NYC area) are still without power. This
time it wasn't
hot or cold, but who knows what the next time will bring.
Therefore I'd
like to buy a generator that can handle the fridge, a TV and
the heating
system, or perhaps the A/C. This is a smallish single
family home, ~1800
sq feet. I do realize that the heating system (natural
gas-fired baseboard
hot water) and/or the A/C need special switching that I'd
need an
electrician to install. A close friend used to work for an
electrician, so
I could get expert advice and inspection for this.

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all,
I am thinking
of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all. Any
recommendations
for brands/models from the cabal??

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 29 Aug 2011 11:44:57 GMT, Han wrote:

We've sat through another extended (16 hr) power outage, and some around
here (north Jersey/NYC area) are still without power. This time it wasn't
hot or cold, but who knows what the next time will bring. Therefore I'd
like to buy a generator that can handle the fridge, a TV and the heating
system, or perhaps the A/C. This is a smallish single family home, ~1800
sq feet. I do realize that the heating system (natural gas-fired baseboard
hot water) and/or the A/C need special switching that I'd need an
electrician to install. A close friend used to work for an electrician, so
I could get expert advice and inspection for this.

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am thinking
of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all. Any recommendations
for brands/models from the cabal??

I can't recommend a generator, but I've looked into powering my
furnace with one and there can be problems with the generator sine
wave being incompatible with the furnace control board.
So look hard at that before you pop for a generator.
And at NG powered since you have NG.
I had a 71 hour and a 12 hour outage this year, so I've given it some
thought. Severe wind storms.
Like your experience, it wasn't hot or cold.
My house 1200 sq ft, 2400 if you include the basement.

I thought about generators, inverters that run from the car, etc.
Just didn't like the expense and maintenance for something I'll hardly
use.
Since I became somewhat of a veteran of outages this year, here's what
I concluded. Just my ideas, and you're welcome to reject them all.
Might not fit your circumstances.
If you're dead set on a generator stop reading now.

First off the 71 hour outage only happened once.
Even the 12 hour was next longest we've experienced.
And they're very rare here.
So I figure that in.

Spring, summer, fall.
If outage goes long enough, cook up any steak or shrimp you have and
feast. The rest will spoil. That's all easy to judge.
Happened with the 71 hour outage, all fine with the 12 hour.
But we can only lose about $50 from the fridge most times.
Make sure you have the usual flashlights, candles, and battery radios.
I missed TV news the most, so I'm going to get one of these.
http://tinyurl.com/3n7yw4t

Good for a while if you nurse its usage, then you can plug it into the
car lighter. Not sure if that will recharge it.
But I found the worse part of a long outage is the uncertainty of when
power will be restored.
By the second day me and the wife were both getting edgy.
If she was another broad there might have been violence.
I've decided to get out and get to a motel where they have power as
soon as the edginess gets to me. I'm sure she'll want to tag along.

Winter
Fridge is a non-issue.
I've got two 23,000 BTU kerosene heaters and about 10 gallons of K-1.
Sometimes use them in the garage doing car work.
One in the basement and one upstairs will keep the house barely
livable and protect the plumbing in cold weather.
Or just one in the basement and keep the range burners on upstairs.
But I don't much like kerosene heaters in the house, or fetching fuel
if I have to, so I'm going to get one of these.
http://tinyurl.com/4xsvhwj

I'll switch a water heater gas el to a T and add a nipple and valve.
Plenty of room on the floor next to the water heater and most of the
plumbing is on that wall.
Leave the basement door open and run the range burners upstairs.
CO alarms are on batteries
Should do the job until power is restored.
But I have to babysit the heat and can't go to a motel.
So I'm in about $320 deep with the TV and heater.
Maybe I won't get the TV. Haven't yet.
Maybe I won't get the heater. Haven't yet.
Talk is cheap.
I think having the kero heaters handy has kept me from pulling the
trigger on both, but I feel my finger itching.

--Vic

On Aug 29, 7:44*am, Han wrote:
We've sat through another extended (16 hr) power outage, and some around
here (north Jersey/NYC area) are still without power. *This time it wasn't
hot or cold, but who knows what the next time will bring. *Therefore I'd
like to buy a generator that can handle the fridge, a TV and the heating
system, or perhaps the A/C. *This is a smallish single family home, ~1800
sq feet. *I do realize that the heating system (natural gas-fired baseboard
hot water) and/or the A/C need special switching that I'd need an
electrician to install. *A close friend used to work for an electrician, so
I could get expert advice and inspection for this.

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am thinking
of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all. Any recommendations
for brands/models from the cabal??

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

I don't know about gas generators and have a gasoline one but would
prefer the convience of not having to start and run it now and then
and inventory gasoline and make sure it is stabilized and fresh but
there is no gas service in my area. Gasoline is normally not in short
supply after as storm with exceptions like when most of Florida was
knocked out and gas station pumps had no electricity. Unlikely to
happen in NJ.

I got my generator guidance from the mower shop I go to that
specializes in Hondas. I would love a Honda as they are quiet
compared to my gas model but cost twice as much. A couple of things
they pointed out were that really cheap units like Coleman or stuff
from Harbor Freight may be difficult to get replacement parts for.
They also recommended that the generator part be a good brand like
Generac and some brands, like the one I bought at Home Depot have a
Generac unit but a BS motor. Even an off brand could contain a Honda
motor and a Generac or Honda generator part.

Your needs sound modest and as other responder pointed out, generators
normally are sold out after a big storm but you can get a returned
unit at half price afterwards.

Frank wrote in
:

On Aug 29, 7:44*am, Han wrote:
We've sat through another extended (16 hr) power outage, and some
around here (north Jersey/NYC area) are still without power. *This
time it was
n't
hot or cold, but who knows what the next time will bring. *Therefore
I'
d
like to buy a generator that can handle the fridge, a TV and the
heating system, or perhaps the A/C. *This is a smallish single family
home, ~18
00
sq feet. *I do realize that the heating system (natural gas-fired
baseb
oard
hot water) and/or the A/C need special switching that I'd need an
electrician to install. *A close friend used to work for an
electrician
, so
I could get expert advice and inspection for this.

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am
thinkin
g
of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all. Any
recommendatio
ns
for brands/models from the cabal??

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

I don't know about gas generators and have a gasoline one but would
prefer the convience of not having to start and run it now and then
and inventory gasoline and make sure it is stabilized and fresh but
there is no gas service in my area. Gasoline is normally not in short
supply after as storm with exceptions like when most of Florida was
knocked out and gas station pumps had no electricity. Unlikely to
happen in NJ.

I got my generator guidance from the mower shop I go to that
specializes in Hondas. I would love a Honda as they are quiet
compared to my gas model but cost twice as much. A couple of things
they pointed out were that really cheap units like Coleman or stuff
from Harbor Freight may be difficult to get replacement parts for.
They also recommended that the generator part be a good brand like
Generac and some brands, like the one I bought at Home Depot have a
Generac unit but a BS motor. Even an off brand could contain a Honda
motor and a Generac or Honda generator part.

Your needs sound modest and as other responder pointed out, generators
normally are sold out after a big storm but you can get a returned
unit at half price afterwards.

Thanks, all. Good advice to ponder from you all. Will monitor the
thread and eventually let you know what we decide.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Aug 29, 6:44*am, Han wrote:
We've sat through another extended (16 hr) power outage, and some around
here (north Jersey/NYC area) are still without power. *This time it wasn't
hot or cold, but who knows what the next time will bring. *Therefore I'd
like to buy a generator that can handle the fridge, a TV and the heating
system, or perhaps the A/C. *This is a smallish single family home, ~1800
sq feet. *I do realize that the heating system (natural gas-fired baseboard
hot water) and/or the A/C need special switching that I'd need an
electrician to install. *A close friend used to work for an electrician, so
I could get expert advice and inspection for this.

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am thinking
of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all. Any recommendations
for brands/models from the cabal??

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

I would look at Tri Fuel conversions www.propane-generators.com
They are propane Ng gasolene conversion kits, run what you have. The
cleanest power are inverter types that honda and yamaha have, Northern
tool should have them already done for sale and shipping, then its as
easy as getting a Ng line outside which is easy and cheap to do.

On Aug 29, 2:58*pm, ransley wrote:
On Aug 29, 6:44*am, Han wrote:





We've sat through another extended (16 hr) power outage, and some around
here (north Jersey/NYC area) are still without power. *This time it wasn't
hot or cold, but who knows what the next time will bring. *Therefore I'd
like to buy a generator that can handle the fridge, a TV and the heating
system, or perhaps the A/C. *This is a smallish single family home, ~1800
sq feet. *I do realize that the heating system (natural gas-fired baseboard
hot water) and/or the A/C need special switching that I'd need an
electrician to install. *A close friend used to work for an electrician, so
I could get expert advice and inspection for this.

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am thinking
of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all. Any recommendations
for brands/models from the cabal??

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

I would look at Tri Fuel conversionswww.propane-generators.com
They are propane Ng gasolene conversion kits, run what you have. The
cleanest power are inverter types that honda and yamaha have, Northern
tool should have them already done for sale and shipping, then its as
easy as getting a Ng line outside which is easy and cheap to do.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree on the "post irene" sales. Lots of good stuff cheap in a few
months.

I disagree on the power "quality" posts. Today's appliances can
handle just about anything. I run my 48" sony bravia, my gas furnace,
my computers, microwave, you name it off my el cheapo 4400 watt
generator. Never had a problem with any of it. Done it at least a
dozen times in the past 12 years.

On Aug 29, 2:25*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Aug 29, 2:58*pm, ransley wrote:





On Aug 29, 6:44*am, Han wrote:

We've sat through another extended (16 hr) power outage, and some around
here (north Jersey/NYC area) are still without power. *This time it wasn't
hot or cold, but who knows what the next time will bring. *Therefore I'd
like to buy a generator that can handle the fridge, a TV and the heating
system, or perhaps the A/C. *This is a smallish single family home, ~1800
sq feet. *I do realize that the heating system (natural gas-fired baseboard
hot water) and/or the A/C need special switching that I'd need an
electrician to install. *A close friend used to work for an electrician, so
I could get expert advice and inspection for this.

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am thinking
of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all. Any recommendations
for brands/models from the cabal??

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

I would look at Tri Fuel conversionswww.propane-generators.com
They are propane Ng gasolene conversion kits, run what you have. The
cleanest power are inverter types that honda and yamaha have, Northern
tool should have them already done for sale and shipping, then its as
easy as getting a Ng line outside which is easy and cheap to do.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree on the "post irene" sales. *Lots of good stuff cheap in a few
months.

I disagree on the power "quality" posts. *Today's appliances can
handle just about anything. *I run my 48" sony bravia, my gas furnace,
my computers, microwave, you name it off my el cheapo 4400 watt
generator. *Never had a problem with any of it. *Done it at least a
dozen times in the past 12 years.

It can be done safely, I wasnt clear, its really a different issue
that of calibration, ive seen new units sold that put out about 140v,
if you check and adjust your unit once in a while, any unit should do
well for you

In article ,
Han wrote:

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am thinking
of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all.

Didn't see it mentioned in this particular thread, but may have missed
it: When this topic has come up before, some have advocated diesel, as
it has a much longer storage life than gasoline.

Smitty Two wrote in
news
In article ,
Han wrote:

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am
thinking of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all.

Didn't see it mentioned in this particular thread, but may have missed
it: When this topic has come up before, some have advocated diesel, as
it has a much longer storage life than gasoline.

Thanks, again, all advice will be taken into consideration. Because of
dear Irene, there are no generators available around here now, so I will
have time to consider everything ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Aug 30, 7:46*pm, Han wrote:
Smitty Two wrote innews
In article ,
*Han wrote:

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am
thinking of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all.

Didn't see it mentioned in this particular thread, but may have missed
it: When this topic has come up before, some have advocated diesel, as
it has a much longer storage life than gasoline.

Thanks, again, all advice will be taken into consideration. *Because of
dear Irene, there are no generators available around here now, so I will
have time to consider everything ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Most of the generators say they can be used for forced air fans, but
they stop short of saying they can be used on a relatively new
furnace.
That control board is very vulnerable. And running it off of an
inverter/
battery combo, which would be less vulnerable to voltage fluctuations
and generator spikes may also be an issue.

On 30 Aug 2011 23:46:00 GMT, Han wrote:

Smitty Two wrote in
news
In article ,
Han wrote:

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am
thinking of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all.

Didn't see it mentioned in this particular thread, but may have missed
it: When this topic has come up before, some have advocated diesel, as
it has a much longer storage life than gasoline.

Thanks, again, all advice will be taken into consideration. Because of
dear Irene, there are no generators available around here now, so I will
have time to consider everything ...

Wait a couple of months. They'll be *CHEAP*.

In a couple months, people will suddenly realize they want
to buy a new flat screen or something. Generators, used,
will be available. Probably not hard wired house generators,
but who can tell?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...


Thanks, again, all advice will be taken into consideration.
Because of
dear Irene, there are no generators available around here
now, so I will
have time to consider everything ...

Wait a couple of months. They'll be *CHEAP*.

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

In a couple months, people will suddenly realize they want
to buy a new flat screen or something. Generators, used,
will be available. Probably not hard wired house generators,
but who can tell?

Since you're looking to capitalize on acts of god, here's a business
idea for you: Buy a large bobtail truck, and pack it with as many
generators as will fit. Then live the nomadic life, cruising from
disaster to disaster, and rent the generators out for as long as needed.
Rentals would be by the week, and the weekly fee would be 1/2 the
purchase price.

On 8/29/2011 12:33 PM, Frank wrote:
On Aug 29, 7:44 am, wrote:
We've sat through another extended (16 hr) power outage, and some around
here (north Jersey/NYC area) are still without power. This time it wasn't
hot or cold, but who knows what the next time will bring. Therefore I'd
like to buy a generator that can handle the fridge, a TV and the heating
system, or perhaps the A/C. This is a smallish single family home, ~1800
sq feet. I do realize that the heating system (natural gas-fired baseboard
hot water) and/or the A/C need special switching that I'd need an
electrician to install. A close friend used to work for an electrician, so
I could get expert advice and inspection for this.

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am thinking
of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all. Any recommendations
for brands/models from the cabal??

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

I don't know about gas generators and have a gasoline one but would
prefer the convience of not having to start and run it now and then
and inventory gasoline and make sure it is stabilized and fresh but
there is no gas service in my area. Gasoline is normally not in short
supply after as storm with exceptions like when most of Florida was
knocked out and gas station pumps had no electricity. Unlikely to
happen in NJ.

I got my generator guidance from the mower shop I go to that
specializes in Hondas. I would love a Honda as they are quiet
compared to my gas model but cost twice as much. A couple of things
they pointed out were that really cheap units like Coleman or stuff
from Harbor Freight may be difficult to get replacement parts for.
They also recommended that the generator part be a good brand like
Generac and some brands, like the one I bought at Home Depot have a
Generac unit but a BS motor. Even an off brand could contain a Honda
motor and a Generac or Honda generator part.


Generac can be good or not. The line that is sold at places like home
depot is of lower quality than the line they sell at equipment places.

Three friends have "real" generac generators and two have the home depot
version. All look the same externally and are connected to auto transfer
switches. The home depot versions are screaming loud. You can barely
hear the "real" ones. One friend went through months of service calls
because their home depot version wasn't working properly. The service
place had trouble getting correct parts and showed him the parts list
and breakdown which shows the home depot version is much different than
the normal version.


Your needs sound modest and as other responder pointed out, generators
normally are sold out after a big storm but you can get a returned
unit at half price afterwards.

On Aug 30, 8:39*pm, Michael B wrote:
On Aug 30, 7:46*pm, Han wrote:





Smitty Two wrote innews

In article ,
*Han wrote:

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am
thinking of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all.

Didn't see it mentioned in this particular thread, but may have missed
it: When this topic has come up before, some have advocated diesel, as
it has a much longer storage life than gasoline.

Thanks, again, all advice will be taken into consideration. *Because of
dear Irene, there are no generators available around here now, so I will
have time to consider everything ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Most of the generators say they can be used for forced air fans, but
they stop short of saying they can be used on a relatively new
furnace.
That control board is very vulnerable. And running it off of an
inverter/
battery combo, which would be less vulnerable to voltage fluctuations
and generator spikes may also be an issue.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They're not any more vunerable that any other piece of electronics.
They handle reasonable voltage and frequency variations. Since most
are powered from the 24 volt transformer, voltage variations are
reduced by a factor of 5. I've run both my forced air gas unts many
times from my generator. Many of my neighbors do as well.

Inverters are worse than generators for inductive loads. Most
inverters do not produce a true sine wave.

I was thinking of replacing my gasoline generator with a diesel and running it off the fuel oil tank.

Pavel314 wrote in
.
com:

I was thinking of replacing my gasoline generator with a diesel and
running it off the fuel oil tank.

Never been so happy as when I sold my home with oil-fired steam and bought
one with gas-fired steam heating. Was even better after the remodel to
water-circulating baseboard heat (and a lot more of remodeling).

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:22:46 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

In a couple months, people will suddenly realize they want
to buy a new flat screen or something. Generators, used,
will be available. Probably not hard wired house generators,
but who can tell?

Since you're looking to capitalize on acts of god, here's a business
idea for you: Buy a large bobtail truck, and pack it with as many
generators as will fit. Then live the nomadic life, cruising from
disaster to disaster, and rent the generators out for as long as needed.
Rentals would be by the week, and the weekly fee would be 1/2 the
purchase price.

Sounds like a good idea. Politicians and other leftist morons would have a
fit, though.

Any time supply and demand comes into action, someone is
bound to scream "price gouging".

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:22:46 -0700, Smitty Two

wrote:

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

In a couple months, people will suddenly realize they
want
to buy a new flat screen or something. Generators, used,
will be available. Probably not hard wired house
generators,
but who can tell?

Since you're looking to capitalize on acts of god, here's a
business
idea for you: Buy a large bobtail truck, and pack it with
as many
generators as will fit. Then live the nomadic life,
cruising from
disaster to disaster, and rent the generators out for as
long as needed.
Rentals would be by the week, and the weekly fee would be
1/2 the
purchase price.

Sounds like a good idea. Politicians and other leftist
morons would have a
fit, though.

On 8/31/2011 6:11 AM, George wrote:
On 8/29/2011 12:33 PM, Frank wrote:
On Aug 29, 7:44 am, wrote:
We've sat through another extended (16 hr) power outage, and some around
here (north Jersey/NYC area) are still without power. This time it
wasn't
hot or cold, but who knows what the next time will bring. Therefore I'd
like to buy a generator that can handle the fridge, a TV and the heating
system, or perhaps the A/C. This is a smallish single family home, ~1800
sq feet. I do realize that the heating system (natural gas-fired
baseboard
hot water) and/or the A/C need special switching that I'd need an
electrician to install. A close friend used to work for an
electrician, so
I could get expert advice and inspection for this.

Because this generator wouldn't be needed very often at all, I am
thinking
of a propane system, not gasoline, but I'm open to all. Any
recommendations
for brands/models from the cabal??

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

I don't know about gas generators and have a gasoline one but would
prefer the convience of not having to start and run it now and then
and inventory gasoline and make sure it is stabilized and fresh but
there is no gas service in my area. Gasoline is normally not in short
supply after as storm with exceptions like when most of Florida was
knocked out and gas station pumps had no electricity. Unlikely to
happen in NJ.

I got my generator guidance from the mower shop I go to that
specializes in Hondas. I would love a Honda as they are quiet
compared to my gas model but cost twice as much. A couple of things
they pointed out were that really cheap units like Coleman or stuff
from Harbor Freight may be difficult to get replacement parts for.
They also recommended that the generator part be a good brand like
Generac and some brands, like the one I bought at Home Depot have a
Generac unit but a BS motor. Even an off brand could contain a Honda
motor and a Generac or Honda generator part.


Generac can be good or not. The line that is sold at places like home
depot is of lower quality than the line they sell at equipment places.

Three friends have "real" generac generators and two have the home depot
version. All look the same externally and are connected to auto transfer
switches. The home depot versions are screaming loud. You can barely
hear the "real" ones. One friend went through months of service calls
because their home depot version wasn't working properly. The service
place had trouble getting correct parts and showed him the parts list
and breakdown which shows the home depot version is much different than
the normal version.


Years ago, I installed a lot of Generac gensets, most were the 8kw
version with the Briggs&Stratton Vanguard V-twin engine running on
natural gas. Some were 10-25kw gensets using Turkish Fiat 4 cylinder
1.6L engines. The 10kw ran at 1800rpm and was the one that would
probably last the longest. I think all the rest ran at 3600rpm.
The last Generac I installed used the newer Generac designed and built
big honkin air cooled V-twin. Those things are great.

TDD

On Aug 30, 9:22*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
*"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

In a couple months, people will suddenly realize they want
to buy a new flat screen or something. Generators, used,
will be available. Probably not hard wired house generators,
but who can tell?

Since you're looking to capitalize on acts of god, here's a business
idea for you: Buy a large bobtail truck, and pack it with as many
generators as will fit. Then live the nomadic life, cruising from
disaster to disaster, and rent the generators out for as long as needed.
Rentals would be by the week, and the weekly fee would be 1/2 the
purchase price.

A big box trucks that said "GeneratorsRus or similar was at
a small local shopping plaza right after the storm here in NJ.
They were loaded with generators just like you suggest.
A neighbor bought a 5000Watt generator for $1400. It's
a no name Chinese that goes for $400 normally.

On Aug 31, 9:45*am, Han wrote:
Pavel314 wrote .
com:

I was thinking of replacing my gasoline generator with a diesel and
running it off the fuel oil tank.

Never been so happy as when I sold my home with oil-fired steam and bought
one with gas-fired steam heating. *Was even better after the remodel to
water-circulating baseboard heat (and a lot more of remodeling).

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

I second the suggestion to go with a generator that can
be modified to use natural gas, propane or gasoline.
Some of those kits are one time conversion, some are
reversible or even allow any of the 3 to be used. Only
draw back from what I've seen those kits cost ~$250
which is almost the price of the generator.

I'd want natural gas, since I have that available
and it's almost always still there during outages.

On Sep 1, 9:21*am, "
wrote:
On Aug 30, 9:22*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
*"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

In a couple months, people will suddenly realize they want
to buy a new flat screen or something. Generators, used,
will be available. Probably not hard wired house generators,
but who can tell?

Since you're looking to capitalize on acts of god, here's a business
idea for you: Buy a large bobtail truck, and pack it with as many
generators as will fit. Then live the nomadic life, cruising from
disaster to disaster, and rent the generators out for as long as needed..
Rentals would be by the week, and the weekly fee would be 1/2 the
purchase price.

A big box trucks that said "GeneratorsRus or similar was at
a small local shopping plaza right after the storm here in NJ.
They were loaded with generators just like you suggest.
A neighbor bought a 5000Watt generator for $1400. *It's
a no name Chinese that goes for $400 normally.

That's price gouging. Here in NC it's against the law and our state
attorney goes after them too. Might be because we have a lot of
storms so we're more watchful.

On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 11:24:24 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Sep 1, 9:21*am, "
wrote:
On Aug 30, 9:22*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
*"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

In a couple months, people will suddenly realize they want
to buy a new flat screen or something. Generators, used,
will be available. Probably not hard wired house generators,
but who can tell?

Since you're looking to capitalize on acts of god, here's a business
idea for you: Buy a large bobtail truck, and pack it with as many
generators as will fit. Then live the nomadic life, cruising from
disaster to disaster, and rent the generators out for as long as needed.
Rentals would be by the week, and the weekly fee would be 1/2 the
purchase price.

A big box trucks that said "GeneratorsRus or similar was at
a small local shopping plaza right after the storm here in NJ.
They were loaded with generators just like you suggest.
A neighbor bought a 5000Watt generator for $1400. *It's
a no name Chinese that goes for $400 normally.

That's price gouging. Here in NC it's against the law and our state
attorney goes after them too. Might be because we have a lot of
storms so we're more watchful.

Stupid law. So instead of someone selling a few and "price gouging" there are
none. Brilliant!

On Sep 1, 3:44*pm, "
wrote:
On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 11:24:24 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:





On Sep 1, 9:21*am, "
wrote:
On Aug 30, 9:22*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
*"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

In a couple months, people will suddenly realize they want
to buy a new flat screen or something. Generators, used,
will be available. Probably not hard wired house generators,
but who can tell?

Since you're looking to capitalize on acts of god, here's a business
idea for you: Buy a large bobtail truck, and pack it with as many
generators as will fit. Then live the nomadic life, cruising from
disaster to disaster, and rent the generators out for as long as needed.
Rentals would be by the week, and the weekly fee would be 1/2 the
purchase price.

A big box trucks that said "GeneratorsRus or similar was at
a small local shopping plaza right after the storm here in NJ.
They were loaded with generators just like you suggest.
A neighbor bought a 5000Watt generator for $1400. *It's
a no name Chinese that goes for $400 normally.

That's price gouging. *Here in NC it's against the law and our state
attorney goes after them too. *Might be because we have a lot of
storms so we're more watchful.

Stupid law. *So instead of someone selling a few and "price gouging" there are
none. *Brilliant!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, there are plenty. One store brought multiple truckloads of
generators in from out of state. They just had to sell them for the
same price they were selling them for the week before. You think it's
better that people in trouble because of a natural disaster should
then also have to pay two or three times as much for things? How
would you like it if it happened to you? You'd be ok paying $20 a
case for bottled water that was $5 the week before when you don't have
water or electricity? Stores still make the same profit per item then
were making plus they can take advantage of the increased demand to
make more money if they are smart. You're stupid if you don't see the
difference.

On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 17:17:27 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Sep 1, 3:44*pm, "
wrote:
On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 11:24:24 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:





On Sep 1, 9:21*am, "
wrote:
On Aug 30, 9:22*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
*"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

In a couple months, people will suddenly realize they want
to buy a new flat screen or something. Generators, used,
will be available. Probably not hard wired house generators,
but who can tell?

Since you're looking to capitalize on acts of god, here's a business
idea for you: Buy a large bobtail truck, and pack it with as many
generators as will fit. Then live the nomadic life, cruising from
disaster to disaster, and rent the generators out for as long as needed.
Rentals would be by the week, and the weekly fee would be 1/2 the
purchase price.

A big box trucks that said "GeneratorsRus or similar was at
a small local shopping plaza right after the storm here in NJ.
They were loaded with generators just like you suggest.
A neighbor bought a 5000Watt generator for $1400. *It's
a no name Chinese that goes for $400 normally.

That's price gouging. *Here in NC it's against the law and our state
attorney goes after them too. *Might be because we have a lot of
storms so we're more watchful.

Stupid law. *So instead of someone selling a few and "price gouging" there are
none. *Brilliant!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, there are plenty.

If there were "plenty", "price gouging" would be impossible.

One store brought multiple truckloads of
generators in from out of state. They just had to sell them for the
same price they were selling them for the week before.

Stupid.

You think it's
better that people in trouble because of a natural disaster should
then also have to pay two or three times as much for things?

Yes. Price is how purchases are prioritized. Someone who might need a
generator might just as well buy one. Maybe two. Meanwhile the person who
*really* needs one (medical need, perhaps) has none.

How
would you like it if it happened to you? You'd be ok paying $20 a
case for bottled water that was $5 the week before when you don't have
water or electricity?

If I *needed* the bottle of water, not a problem. I *will* think twice about
whether I need it or not. ...and that's the whole point. Priorities will
dictate what I will spend, as it should be.

Stores still make the same profit per item then
were making plus they can take advantage of the increased demand to
make more money if they are smart. You're stupid if you don't see the
difference.

Clearly you're not thinking straight (normal mode for a lefty). Demand is the
only thing that can set price, otherwise you *will* have an imbalance of
supply.

Think about this as applied to a hotel room in a similar situation. A family
needs a room after the storm. "How much", asks he. "$100 per room, can't
charge more than last week", says, Mr. Inkeeper. "Fine, give me two (gets the
kids out of mommy&daddy's room)". "Done". Next family; "How much?", asks he.
Innkeep: "Sorry, No vacancy."

On Sep 1, 8:54*pm, "
wrote:
On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 17:17:27 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:





On Sep 1, 3:44*pm, "
wrote:
On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 11:24:24 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Sep 1, 9:21*am, "
wrote:
On Aug 30, 9:22*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
*"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

In a couple months, people will suddenly realize they want
to buy a new flat screen or something. Generators, used,
will be available. Probably not hard wired house generators,
but who can tell?

Since you're looking to capitalize on acts of god, here's a business
idea for you: Buy a large bobtail truck, and pack it with as many
generators as will fit. Then live the nomadic life, cruising from
disaster to disaster, and rent the generators out for as long as needed.
Rentals would be by the week, and the weekly fee would be 1/2 the
purchase price.

A big box trucks that said "GeneratorsRus or similar was at
a small local shopping plaza right after the storm here in NJ.
They were loaded with generators just like you suggest.
A neighbor bought a 5000Watt generator for $1400. *It's
a no name Chinese that goes for $400 normally.

That's price gouging. *Here in NC it's against the law and our state
attorney goes after them too. *Might be because we have a lot of
storms so we're more watchful.

Stupid law. *So instead of someone selling a few and "price gouging" there are
none. *Brilliant!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, there are plenty.

If there were "plenty", "price gouging" would be impossible.

One store brought multiple truckloads of
generators in from out of state. *They just had to sell them for the
same price they were selling them for the week before.

Stupid.

You think it's
better that people in trouble because of a natural disaster should
then also have to pay two or three times as much for things?

Yes. *Price is how purchases are prioritized. *Someone who might need a
generator might just as well buy one. *Maybe two. *Meanwhile the person who
*really* needs one (medical need, perhaps) has none.

How
would you like it if it happened to you? *You'd be ok paying $20 a
case for bottled water that was $5 the week before when you don't have
water or electricity?

If I *needed* the bottle of water, not a problem. *I *will* think twice about
whether I need it or not. *...and that's the whole point. *Priorities will
dictate what I will spend, as it should be.

Stores still make the same profit per item then
were making plus they can take advantage of the increased demand to
make more money if they are smart. *You're stupid if you don't see the
difference.

Clearly you're not thinking straight (normal mode for a lefty). *Demand is the
only thing that can set price, otherwise you *will* have an imbalance of
supply. *

Think about this as applied to a hotel room in a similar situation. *A family
needs a room after the storm. *"How much", asks he. *"$100 per room, can't
charge more than last week", says, Mr. Inkeeper. *"Fine, give me two (gets the
kids out of mommy&daddy's room)". *"Done". *Next family; "How much?", asks he.
Innkeep: "Sorry, No vacancy."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I wonder what his reaction would be if he owned a piece
of property and oil was suddenly discovered around the
corner. Would he do the "right" thing and sell it only
for what it was worth the day before?

I agree with you. These laws that prevent "price
gouging" are just plain stupid. In an emergency I
want everyone to know they can set their own
price. What that law is telling people is not to
take the risk and go out of their way to supply
products to those that
need them. Case in point, being the generator
truck. Without these crazy laws, there is an
incentive for a guy like the generator truck guy
to risk his money buying a load of generators
in say Ohio and driving them here where they
are needed and selling them for whatever
price he can get. People in turn are free to buy
them or not buy them. Put uncertainty in the
equation and the guy isn't going to hire a
lawyer to figure out what the law is 2 states
away.

And there is also a self-corrective measure.
By and large the folks charging high prices
are entrepeneurs like the example, not the local
Home Depot or ACE Hardware. Those
companies are not going to raise prices
because the small amount of additional
profit isn't worth ****ing off some customers.

In short as in so many cases the cure for
the alleged problem is worse than the problem
itself.

On Sep 2, 1:46*am, "
wrote:
On Sep 1, 8:54*pm, "
wrote:





On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 17:17:27 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Sep 1, 3:44*pm, "
wrote:
On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 11:24:24 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Sep 1, 9:21*am, "
wrote:
On Aug 30, 9:22*pm, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
*"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

In a couple months, people will suddenly realize they want
to buy a new flat screen or something. Generators, used,
will be available. Probably not hard wired house generators,
but who can tell?

Since you're looking to capitalize on acts of god, here's a business
idea for you: Buy a large bobtail truck, and pack it with as many
generators as will fit. Then live the nomadic life, cruising from
disaster to disaster, and rent the generators out for as long as needed.
Rentals would be by the week, and the weekly fee would be 1/2 the
purchase price.

A big box trucks that said "GeneratorsRus or similar was at
a small local shopping plaza right after the storm here in NJ.
They were loaded with generators just like you suggest.
A neighbor bought a 5000Watt generator for $1400. *It's
a no name Chinese that goes for $400 normally.

That's price gouging. *Here in NC it's against the law and our state
attorney goes after them too. *Might be because we have a lot of
storms so we're more watchful.

Stupid law. *So instead of someone selling a few and "price gouging" there are
none. *Brilliant!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No, there are plenty.

If there were "plenty", "price gouging" would be impossible.

One store brought multiple truckloads of
generators in from out of state. *They just had to sell them for the
same price they were selling them for the week before.

Stupid.

You think it's
better that people in trouble because of a natural disaster should
then also have to pay two or three times as much for things?

Yes. *Price is how purchases are prioritized. *Someone who might need a
generator might just as well buy one. *Maybe two. *Meanwhile the person who
*really* needs one (medical need, perhaps) has none.

How
would you like it if it happened to you? *You'd be ok paying $20 a
case for bottled water that was $5 the week before when you don't have
water or electricity?

If I *needed* the bottle of water, not a problem. *I *will* think twice about
whether I need it or not. *...and that's the whole point. *Priorities will
dictate what I will spend, as it should be.

Stores still make the same profit per item then
were making plus they can take advantage of the increased demand to
make more money if they are smart. *You're stupid if you don't see the
difference.

Clearly you're not thinking straight (normal mode for a lefty). *Demand is the
only thing that can set price, otherwise you *will* have an imbalance of
supply. *

Think about this as applied to a hotel room in a similar situation. *A family
needs a room after the storm. *"How much", asks he. *"$100 per room, can't
charge more than last week", says, Mr. Inkeeper. *"Fine, give me two (gets the
kids out of mommy&daddy's room)". *"Done". *Next family; "How much?", asks he.
Innkeep: "Sorry, No vacancy."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I wonder what his reaction would be if he owned a piece
of property and oil was suddenly discovered around the
corner. *Would he do the "right" thing and sell it only
for what it was worth the day before?

I agree with you. *These laws that prevent "price
gouging" are just plain stupid. *In an emergency I
want everyone to know they can set their own
price. *What that law is telling people is not to
take the risk and go out of their way to supply
*products to those that
need them. * Case in point, being the generator
truck. *Without these crazy laws, there is an
incentive for a guy like the generator truck guy
to risk his money buying a load of generators
in say Ohio and driving them here where they
are needed and selling them for whatever
price he can get. *People in turn are free to buy
them or not buy them. *Put uncertainty in the
equation and the guy isn't going to hire a
lawyer to figure out what the law is 2 states
away.

And there is also a self-corrective measure.
By and large the folks charging high prices
are entrepeneurs like the example, not the local
Home Depot or ACE Hardware. *Those
companies are not going to raise prices
because the small amount of additional
profit isn't worth ****ing off some customers.

In short as in so many cases the cure for
the alleged problem is worse than the problem
itself.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What you're forgetting is that 70% of the people out there have no
idea what a generator should cost. They've never had anything to do
with a portable generator. So they are the "suckers" in your free
market. They are in a situation where they can't research prices, no
stores open, no power for the computer, no internet. They have no
idea $1500 is a complete rip off.

Besides, you right wing nut jobs are all the same, don't regulate
anything, until you get burned personally. Then you suddenly are
concerned. "How did the goverment let that happen to me?

jamesgangnc wrote:

-snip-

What you're forgetting is that 70% of the people out there have no
idea what a generator should cost. They've never had anything to do
with a portable generator. So they are the "suckers" in your free
market. They are in a situation where they can't research prices, no
stores open, no power for the computer, no internet. They have no
idea $1500 is a complete rip off.

so-- They show up at the store the day after a Hurricane and
prioritize. [which they did with their money to buy the things that
the generator will make work- instead of buying the generator last
week]

Is it worth $1500 to them *that* day? Will the guy in line behind
them fork over the cash?


Besides, you right wing nut jobs are all the same, don't regulate
anything, until you get burned personally. Then you suddenly are
concerned. "How did the goverment let that happen to me?

Actually I'm a leftward leaning independent. I'm a diehard,
unashamed Obama supporter. [until this week when they got screwed
trying to 'play the game' instead of taking care of business]

There are a lot of things the Gov't needs to hold businesses
accountable for. Pricing should always be a function of the
market.

Jim

Jim Elbrecht wrote in
:

Pricing should always be a function of the market.

But it has to be a free market, not a compromised one ... Granted that
that should be selfcorrecting, but it can take a while ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 02 Sep 2011 12:18:57 GMT, Han wrote:

Jim Elbrecht wrote in
:

Pricing should always be a function of the market.

But it has to be a free market, not a compromised one ... Granted that
that should be selfcorrecting, but it can take a while ...

Right, it's time to get the government out of the market, as far out as
possible. Crony-capitalism is more of a problem of the left than the right.

You are insulting, in addition to being insulting. I invite
the other members of the list to join with me in a group
plonk.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...

What you're forgetting is that 70% of the people out there
have no
idea what a generator should cost. They've never had
anything to do
with a portable generator. So they are the "suckers" in
your free
market. They are in a situation where they can't research
prices, no
stores open, no power for the computer, no internet. They
have no
idea $1500 is a complete rip off.

Besides, you right wing nut jobs are all the same, don't
regulate
anything, until you get burned personally. Then you
suddenly are
concerned. "How did the goverment let that happen to me?

On Sep 2, 9:00*am, "
wrote:
On 02 Sep 2011 12:18:57 GMT, Han wrote:

Jim Elbrecht wrote in
:

Pricing should always be a function of the market.

But it has to be a free market, not a compromised one ... *Granted that
that should be selfcorrecting, but it can take a while ...

Right, it's time to get the government out of the market, as far out as
possible. *Crony-capitalism is more of a problem of the left than the right.

And the bainking fiasco that started the economic melt down had
nothing to do with the deregulation done leading up to it. We should
have just let it self correct and that's just too bad if millions and
millions of people lost their entire retirement savings. They should
have known better.

On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 06:10:23 -0700 (PDT), jamesgangnc
wrote:

On Sep 2, 9:00*am, "
wrote:
On 02 Sep 2011 12:18:57 GMT, Han wrote:

Jim Elbrecht wrote in
:

Pricing should always be a function of the market.

But it has to be a free market, not a compromised one ... *Granted that
that should be selfcorrecting, but it can take a while ...

Right, it's time to get the government out of the market, as far out as
possible. *Crony-capitalism is more of a problem of the left than the right.

And the bainking fiasco that started the economic melt down had
nothing to do with the deregulation done leading up to it. We should
have just let it self correct and that's just too bad if millions and
millions of people lost their entire retirement savings. They should
have known better.

Once again you show how clueless you are.

On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 08:11:38 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:


There are a lot of things the Gov't needs to hold businesses
accountable for. Pricing should always be a function of the
market.


If these anti-gouging laws are keeping goods from flowing to where
they are needed, that's not good.
I couldn't get a good handle on who gets charged with violating these
laws or what effect they have on keeping hustlers from delivering the
goods
Seems most enforcement is against motels and gas stations.
Don't remember who mentioned the generators out of a truck, but if it
was trader4 and he lives in NJ, they have anti-gouging laws.
31 states have anti-gouging laws.
Looks like they didn't keep this guy from selling the generators.
I would be in and out quick if I did that.
If somebody will pay $1500 for a $300 generator that's their business.
It's all mob mentality anyway. Why do they suddenly need a generator?
Even when your power will be out for a week, it's not the end of the
world. If they have a good reason for the generator then they'll pay.
Most are probably buying the generators because they saw the line.
If they need it to run a pump to clear their basement then the extra
cost might be worth it. Up to them.
When I felt I was getting "gouged" by guys selling Christmas trees on
corner lots, I started buying them at big box places.
Then my wife bought a plastic tree because she didn't like dealing
with the needles. I like it.

--Vic

Stormin Mormon wrote:
You are insulting, in addition to being insulting. I invite
the other members of the list to join with me in a group
plonk.

I've often wondered: Is it insulting to call someone else insulting? It
seems to be kind of self-referential, much like saying if this sentence were
shorter it wouldn't be as long.