On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:30:05 GMT, Red Green
wrote:

Harry K wrote in news:9f59ffdf-0a25-469d-a2d9-
:

On Aug 24, 7:22Â*pm, ed_h wrote:
On Aug 24, 9:02Â*pm, Metspitzer wrote:

All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

My truck has a built in feature that puts a message up on the dash
readout when it's time to change oil. Â*The owners manual says that the
message is based on a lot of things, including length of trips,
temperature, and driving habits, and to change oil when I get the
message, or at 7000 miles, whichever is sooner. Â*The message typically
pops up at around 6000-7500 miles.

The factory dealer's service department still puts on the 3000 mile
sticker, though.

I do at 3,000. Been around 6 years since I read the manual but IIRC
it give 3,000 for 'severe service'. Since most of my driving is only
4 miles to town and 4 back that certainly is sever service as it never
gets properly warmed up.

Harry K


You probably go through a lot of exhaust fixes.
I do the short trip thing too, and my exhaust generally lasts over
200,000 km - or over 12 years.

On Aug 25, 6:03*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Evan" wrote

It has nothing to do with the engine oil change military
industrial complex wanting to stiff consumers out of
money for more frequent oil changes at all...

B S * While you are correct for severe service, the oil change places just
put that 3000 mile sticker on the car as they have been for 50 years. *Under
normal conditions, you can easily go 5000 to 7500 miles and not do any
damage. *Oils and engines have changed since 1960. *I remember it was common
to do rings and bearings on an engine at 50,000 miles. *Those days are long
gone.

Not B.S. at all... Even modern oils will break down faster with short
trip
driving only... Plus you can have all sorts of fun things happen with
the
condensation that occurs inside the engine with short trips...

Oils and Engines HAVE changed since 1960, they have become a lot
more modern and susceptible to having things like tiny fuel injector
ports clogged by grit and metal particles in the engine...

Have you seen what a new aluminum engine block looks like when
sand has been allowed to work on it for a while ?

~~ Evan

On Aug 25, 8:16*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I try to get to the garage for oil change about 3500 to
4,000 miles. Conventional oil, in older vehicles. Due to the
Obama economy, my vehicles each have almost 200,000 miles on
them. Can't afford newer.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...



Stickers for 500 miles? Typo omitting a zero I hope?

The new Federal deficit is causing a shortage of zeros for
the rest of us.
I' m trying to conserve them.

Even with your handyman/locksmithing business ?

Can't afford a vehicle newer than ones with 200k+ miles
on them... Maybe you should calculate what the expense
for a recent model used vehicle would be and factor that
cost into your figuring when you do pricing for your "jobs"...

~~ Evan

On Aug 25, 9:31*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Evan wrote:
On Aug 24, 10:45 pm, LouB wrote:
Metspitzer wrote:
All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

Follow the $$.

If the manual says 7500 why do anything else?

Because if you don't change the oil more frequently if you
do city/in-town driving only consisting of short trips where
the engine oil doesn't get up to operating temperature for
a good length of time, it breaks down much faster and
does not do its job properly...

Uh, I think the oil gets to operating temperature in about twenty seconds..

I may exaggerate, but if I move the car - after being parked overnight - to
the area where I'd like to change the oil, the oil draining from the pan is
hotter than a biscuit.

20 seconds ? No way... You haven't even sucked and pumped
all the oil and thicker stuff out of the oil pan yet...

"Operating Temperature" means that the oil, all of it in the system,
is up to engine temperature -- you know this by when the oil pressure
drops into its operating range rather than the slightly elevated
pressure
you have when you first start up and when the engine coolant temp
indicator moves from cold to its normal position in the operating
range...

~~ Evan

On Aug 25, 10:48*am, Tony Hwang wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Evan" wrote
It has nothing to do with the engine oil change military
industrial complex wanting to stiff consumers out of
money for more frequent oil changes at all...

B S While you are correct for severe service, the oil change places just
put that 3000 mile sticker on the car as they have been for 50 years.
Under normal conditions, you can easily go 5000 to 7500 miles and not do
any damage. Oils and engines have changed since 1960. I remember it was
common to do rings and bearings on an engine at 50,000 miles. Those days
are long gone.

Hi,
Todya's engine and oil is more advanced compared to olden days. Like my
neighbors just delivered new BMW does not even have a dip stick. After
10K km oil change I never saw old oil coming out has color change or any
funny smell. If some one wants to change oil at 3K mile interval in most
cases that's waste of money and time.

Your new car will protect itself and not start unless all the pre-
programmed
conditions on the pre-flight check that occurs in the instant from
when you
turn your key from "lock" to "on" to "start" are met and the computer
allows
the engine to turn over...

If you have an older car and only drive on short trips (like less than
15-20 miles
each way) your engine and the oil in it are not thermocycling properly
and
WILL NOT perform anywhere near "spec" for any length of time...

~~ Evan

"Metspitzer" wrote in message
...
All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.


I have not read all the replies , and may not, so if I repeat pardon me.

I think they all do the 3K because most of them offer free top-offs for the
period of time between scheduled changes.

Colbyt

"Colbyt" wrote in message
m...

"Metspitzer" wrote in message
...
All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.


I have not read all the replies , and may not, so if I repeat pardon me.

I think they all do the 3K because most of them offer free top-offs for
the period of time between scheduled changes.

Colbyt

If you are using ANY oil between 3,000 mile oil changes, you got a serious
problem somewhere. Usually, they leave the cap off, or the drain plug
loose, and it's just a way for them to CYA.

Steve

On 8/24/2011 7:02 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

No one does 3000 any more.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 22:02:32 -0400, Metspitzer wrote:

All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

I use Pennzoil 5w30 in a Trailblazer with 90k on it. Every 3k miles since
the breakin oil was removed.

Recently had the plugs changed, first time since new. Compression test
each cyl. All 6 (4.2L inline 6 Vortec 275 HP 10:1 compression ratio)
were within factory specs. Also use a Fram high density filter.
Oil pressure is 41 PSI at hot idle, 70 PSI at 2k rpm. The motor is so
quiet it's hard to tell if it's running. The factory 'change engine oil'
light comes on each 5k miles after reset. As far as I'm concerned that 3k
oil change rule is worth following.

Yes, even with. You're right, I've got to figure out the
cost of a vehicle and put that into my prices.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Evan" wrote in message
...

Even with your handyman/locksmithing business ?

Can't afford a vehicle newer than ones with 200k+ miles
on them... Maybe you should calculate what the expense
for a recent model used vehicle would be and factor that
cost into your figuring when you do pricing for your
"jobs"...

~~ Evan

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Colbyt" wrote in message
m...

"Metspitzer" wrote in message
...
All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.


I have not read all the replies , and may not, so if I repeat pardon me.

I think they all do the 3K because most of them offer free top-offs for
the period of time between scheduled changes.

Colbyt

If you are using ANY oil between 3,000 mile oil changes, you got a serious
problem somewhere. Usually, they leave the cap off, or the drain plug
loose, and it's just a way for them to CYA.

Steve


My Nissan can go 6K with no usage. The wife's 97 Chevy does seem to lose or
burn some before 3K.

Guess what I am buying when I replace the 96 Nissan in 5-8 years.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 22:02:32 -0400, Metspitzer wrote:

All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

I try to. Recently I haven't succeeded often.

"Teredo" wrote
Recently had the plugs changed, first time since new. Compression test
each cyl. All 6 (4.2L inline 6 Vortec 275 HP 10:1 compression ratio)
were within factory specs. Also use a Fram high density filter.
Oil pressure is 41 PSI at hot idle, 70 PSI at 2k rpm. The motor is so
quiet it's hard to tell if it's running. The factory 'change engine oil'
light comes on each 5k miles after reset. As far as I'm concerned that 3k
oil change rule is worth following.



Why?
My Buick was the same way, except I changed oil at 7500. In the 130,000
miles I had the car that would be 17 oil changes. Following your method,
I'd had had the oil changed 43 times and the results are the same. At $30 a
pop, I'm $780 ahead.

I imagine I could have kept it longer, but the car had other issues and I
gave it away to may grandson. Damned engine ran perfect though.

I've also owned a couple of Sonatas. The dealer (I don't use dealer service
in general) recommends fuel injection service every year for $129. If I did
that on all my fuel injected cars in the past say, 20 years, I've have spent
thousands of needless dollars. I've never had an FI problem. So, 2 cars at
$129 for 20 years, the shop would have $5100 of my money and I'd have no
gain.

Preventative maintenance is important, but should be done with sensibility.

"Evan" wrote in message
...
On Aug 25, 6:03 am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"Evan" wrote

It has nothing to do with the engine oil change military
industrial complex wanting to stiff consumers out of
money for more frequent oil changes at all...

B S While you are correct for severe service, the oil change places
just
put that 3000 mile sticker on the car as they have been for 50 years.
Under
normal conditions, you can easily go 5000 to 7500 miles and not do any
damage. Oils and engines have changed since 1960. I remember it was
common
to do rings and bearings on an engine at 50,000 miles. Those days are
long
gone.

Not B.S. at all... Even modern oils will break down faster with short
trip
driving only... Plus you can have all sorts of fun things happen with
the
condensation that occurs inside the engine with short trips...

Oils and Engines HAVE changed since 1960, they have become a lot
more modern and susceptible to having things like tiny fuel injector
ports clogged by grit and metal particles in the engine...

Have you seen what a new aluminum engine block looks like when
sand has been allowed to work on it for a while ?

~~ Evan

As I said, with severe service you may still need 3000 miles. For many
others, a longer interval is just fine. I usually put 150,000 to 200,000 on
an engine and never had an oil related problem. I change at 7500. For me
to change sooner is a waste of money.

On 8/25/2011 10:19 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"Teredo" wrote
Recently had the plugs changed, first time since new. Compression test
each cyl. All 6 (4.2L inline 6 Vortec 275 HP 10:1 compression ratio)
were within factory specs. Also use a Fram high density filter.
Oil pressure is 41 PSI at hot idle, 70 PSI at 2k rpm. The motor is so
quiet it's hard to tell if it's running. The factory 'change engine oil'
light comes on each 5k miles after reset. As far as I'm concerned that 3k
oil change rule is worth following.



Why?
My Buick was the same way, except I changed oil at 7500. In the 130,000
miles I had the car that would be 17 oil changes. Following your method,
I'd had had the oil changed 43 times and the results are the same. At
$30 a pop, I'm $780 ahead.

I imagine I could have kept it longer, but the car had other issues and
I gave it away to may grandson. Damned engine ran perfect though.

I've also owned a couple of Sonatas. The dealer (I don't use dealer
service in general) recommends fuel injection service every year for
$129. If I did that on all my fuel injected cars in the past say, 20
years, I've have spent thousands of needless dollars. I've never had an
FI problem. So, 2 cars at $129 for 20 years, the shop would have $5100
of my money and I'd have no gain.

Preventative maintenance is important, but should be done with sensibility.

Click and Clack call FI cleaning 'wallet cleaning'. Unless the engine is
running crappy, the injectors are already clean enough. Yeah, I know,
the computer compensates up to a point. Trip odometers are wonderful-
reset at every fillup, and if there is a change in MPG, it should jump
right out at you. When mine starts drifting down half an mpg or so, I
know it is time to dig out the compressor and top off the tires.

--
aem sends...

On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:14:14 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Colbyt" wrote in message
om...

"Metspitzer" wrote in message
...
All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.


I have not read all the replies , and may not, so if I repeat pardon me.

I think they all do the 3K because most of them offer free top-offs for
the period of time between scheduled changes.

Colbyt

If you are using ANY oil between 3,000 mile oil changes, you got a serious
problem somewhere. Usually, they leave the cap off, or the drain plug
loose, and it's just a way for them to CYA.

Steve

I'd agree with you have a problem - but not necessarily a SERIOUS
problem. A car can still pass e-test and not harm the cat with
consumption of 1 quart per 1500 miles (which used to be considered
"normal")

On Aug 25, 8:35*am, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:30:05 GMT, Red Green
wrote:





Harry K wrote in news:9f59ffdf-0a25-469d-a2d9-
:

On Aug 24, 7:22*pm, ed_h wrote:
On Aug 24, 9:02*pm, Metspitzer wrote:

All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

My truck has a built in feature that puts a message up on the dash
readout when it's time to change oil. *The owners manual says that the
message is based on a lot of things, including length of trips,
temperature, and driving habits, and to change oil when I get the
message, or at 7000 miles, whichever is sooner. *The message typically
pops up at around 6000-7500 miles.

The factory dealer's service department still puts on the 3000 mile
sticker, though.

I do at 3,000. *Been around 6 years since I read the manual but IIRC
it give 3,000 for 'severe service'. *Since most of my driving is only
4 miles to town and 4 back that certainly is sever service as it never
gets properly warmed up.

Harry K

You probably go through a lot of exhaust fixes.

4 miles should be enough to heat up the exhaust well.
Probably. *Can't say I ever checked it.

--Vic- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Never have had to fix any car exhausts but to keep SWMBO happy I chnge
cars often. Now my truck....I need to replace the whole thing again.
Everything aft of the muffler stub is gone...as in dropped off
somewhere on the road. This is the second time for it and I bought it
used. Currently at 150,000

Harry K

In article ,
(Arthur Shapiro) wrote:

In article
, Harry K
wrote:

I do at 3,000.

I too...for me that's half a year of driving.

I had to join the "Lifetime Oil Change" program at my mechanic, which I think
was $189, because the Honda Element is the first car I've ever had where I
can't change my own oil. (The filter is inaccessible without ramps or being
6'8".) They're happy to do it every four months but I think that's absurd.
They'll lose a bundle on me as I keep cars 15-17 years.


Either that or they won't bother changing the filter very often, like
the infamous jiffy lube people.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 13:08:45 -0400, clare wrote:
You probably go through a lot of exhaust fixes.
I do the short trip thing too, and my exhaust generally lasts over
200,000 km - or over 12 years.

It probably varies a lot by vehicle. We've got 206,000mi on the 14 year
old Toyota and it's still on the original exhaust (and it looks like it
might last a while yet, although I need to fix the mounting points for
one of the heat shields as two of the four have rusted through)

cheers

Jules

On 8/24/2011 9:02 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

Good advice. Oil SHOULD be changed every 3000 miles.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
...
Hi,
Todya's engine and oil is more advanced compared to olden days. Like my
neighbors just delivered new BMW does not even have a dip stick.

That's because your neighbor has a dip stick for a neighbor.

On 8/25/2011 7:33 PM, aemeijers wrote:

Click and Clack call FI cleaning 'wallet cleaning'.

I think they referred to it as the "Bilstein Wallet Flush."

3000 mile oil changes are popularly known as "recreational oil changes."

The term "recreational oil changer" was coined to define people that
change their oil far more than necessary because they actually enjoy
doing it. It's easy to understand the psychology behind the recreational
oil changing. It's the visceral feel of the tools, the victory when that
old oil filter breaks free, the hot dirty oil pouring out, the joy of
oiling the gasket on the new filter, that new copper or fiber gasket on
the drain plug, the clean amber oil going in, and the sense of
accomplishment when you start the car, the oil light comes on for a
moment, then goes out. For $12-15 in oil and parts, it's pretty cheap
entertainment.

Or course if people would be content to do it only when it provides some
benefit to the vehicle it would be better, and fortunately there are
very few people still naive enough to do 3000 mile oil changes.

"Metspitzer" wrote in message
...
All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

HI, no need to change your oil until you get 40,000 miles on it. Filter
change @ 150,000 miles.

On Aug 26, 10:53*am, Steve Barker wrote:
On 8/24/2011 9:02 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

Good advice. *Oil SHOULD be changed every 3000 miles.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

What is the source of this wisdom?

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

I try to get to the garage for oil change about 3500 to
4,000 miles. Conventional oil, in older vehicles. Due to the
Obama economy, my vehicles each have almost 200,000 miles on
them. Can't afford newer.

This is what I'm talking about, here. The economy isn't an "Obama"
economy. Can't you guys just knock that off? Bush was the worst
president in the history of the universe, and handed off the plane
with 3 engines flamed out, the ailerons inoperable, and the tail on
fire. Not to mention he was retarded, and a ****ing traitor who
should have been hanged.

Maybe. But just about everybody had a job. As for the "Obama economy," well
he's tried to massage it: The "stimulus", cash-for-clunkers, auto industry
bail-out, bank bail-out, health care bail-out, landslides of regulations,
payroll tax holiday, Dodd-Frank, and more. Nothing has worked.

Those on the president's staff (and most of their immediate family) say
these actions prevented a catastrophe. We don't and can't know that. What we
DO know is that the economy has not improved during his time in office. By
almost every measure, the economy's gotten worse.

Shortly the president will return from vacation and deliver his solution for
the economy in a major speech. Most say it will include an extension of the
withholding tax holiday (which didn't work the first time around) and a
federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (which didn't work for the
four or five federal takeovers already done).

But you don't see me bitching about him on
every ****ing thread, so why not just shut the **** up about Obama
and stick to the ****ing topic?

Uh, yes we do. Well, to be fair, not EVERY SINGLE thread.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 15:08:24 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Maybe. But just about everybody had a job. As for the "Obama economy," well
he's tried to massage it: The "stimulus", cash-for-clunkers, auto industry
bail-out, bank bail-out, health care bail-out, landslides of regulations,
payroll tax holiday, Dodd-Frank, and more. Nothing has worked.

The amount of money government spends "creating jobs" is just throwing
money at the problem. The most effective way our government could
create jobs would be to only spend government money on American made
products and legal American workers.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 17:53:20 -0400, Metspitzer wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 15:08:24 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Maybe. But just about everybody had a job. As for the "Obama economy," well
he's tried to massage it: The "stimulus", cash-for-clunkers, auto industry
bail-out, bank bail-out, health care bail-out, landslides of regulations,
payroll tax holiday, Dodd-Frank, and more. Nothing has worked.

The amount of money government spends "creating jobs" is just throwing
money at the problem. The most effective way our government could
create jobs would be to only spend government money on American made
products and legal American workers.

No, the most effective way is to NOT SPEND.

In article ,
Steve Barker wrote:
On 8/24/2011 9:02 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

Good advice. Oil SHOULD be changed every 3000 miles.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

True from the perspective of a Jiffy Lube franchisee, but not necessary for
the vast majority of vehicles using modern oil and built in the last 3
decades or so.


--
Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. (Albert Einstein)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On 8/26/2011 11:57 AM, ed_h wrote:
On Aug 26, 10:53 am, Steve wrote:
On 8/24/2011 9:02 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

Good advice. Oil SHOULD be changed every 3000 miles.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

What is the source of this wisdom?


dirt. The basic design of the engine has not changed. Aluminum
bearings (basically) aluminum pistons, and cast iron crank and
cylinders. Oil gets dirty., doesn't matter how much the oil costs, or
how fancy the vehicle is. The oil still gets dirty in about 3000 miles.
(given an approximate 5 quart capacity). Larger sumps can go
proportionally longer.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 17:10:46 -0500, "
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 17:53:20 -0400, Metspitzer wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 15:08:24 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Maybe. But just about everybody had a job. As for the "Obama economy," well
he's tried to massage it: The "stimulus", cash-for-clunkers, auto industry
bail-out, bank bail-out, health care bail-out, landslides of regulations,
payroll tax holiday, Dodd-Frank, and more. Nothing has worked.

The amount of money government spends "creating jobs" is just throwing
money at the problem. The most effective way our government could
create jobs would be to only spend government money on American made
products and legal American workers.

No, the most effective way is to NOT SPEND.

So the government should not buy paper, pens, furniture?

On 8/26/2011 5:14 PM, Larry W wrote:
In articlevp6dnc486MLvXMrTnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@giganews. com,
Steve wrote:
On 8/24/2011 9:02 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

Good advice. Oil SHOULD be changed every 3000 miles.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

True from the perspective of a Jiffy Lube franchisee, but not necessary for
the vast majority of vehicles using modern oil and built in the last 3
decades or so.



suit yourself. you're probably right, given most you yuppies won't keep
the vehicle long enough to matter. Might just as well not change it at
all if you're only gonna keep it 50,000 miles or 2 years. Why bother.?


--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

In article ,
Steve Barker wrote:
On 8/26/2011 5:14 PM, Larry W wrote:
In articlevp6dnc486MLvXMrTnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@giganews. com,
Steve wrote:
On 8/24/2011 9:02 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

Good advice. Oil SHOULD be changed every 3000 miles.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

True from the perspective of a Jiffy Lube franchisee, but not necessary for
the vast majority of vehicles using modern oil and built in the last 3
decades or so.



suit yourself. you're probably right, given most you yuppies won't keep
the vehicle long enough to matter. Might just as well not change it at
all if you're only gonna keep it 50,000 miles or 2 years. Why bother.?


--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

FYI, my current 1996 Jeep Cherokee has 166,000 miles and uses less than
a quart of oil between 6000 mile oil change intervals. My previous 1978
Chevy pickup, which I bought used in 1986 and kept til 2006 when I bought
the Jeep, had over 250,000 miles on the original 350 V8, and I was never
really conscientous about changing the oil in that truck either. BTW
the engine was still running well when I sold the truck. I got rid of
it because the bed and cab were pretty much disintegrated from rust.

--
Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler. (Albert Einstein)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 19:18:54 -0400, Metspitzer wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 17:10:46 -0500, "
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 17:53:20 -0400, Metspitzer wrote:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 15:08:24 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Maybe. But just about everybody had a job. As for the "Obama economy," well
he's tried to massage it: The "stimulus", cash-for-clunkers, auto industry
bail-out, bank bail-out, health care bail-out, landslides of regulations,
payroll tax holiday, Dodd-Frank, and more. Nothing has worked.

The amount of money government spends "creating jobs" is just throwing
money at the problem. The most effective way our government could
create jobs would be to only spend government money on American made
products and legal American workers.

No, the most effective way is to NOT SPEND.

So the government should not buy paper, pens, furniture?

Yeah, that accounts for the 40% increase in federal spending. What a dumbass.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 18:17:49 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 8/26/2011 11:57 AM, ed_h wrote:
On Aug 26, 10:53 am, Steve wrote:
On 8/24/2011 9:02 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

Good advice. Oil SHOULD be changed every 3000 miles.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

What is the source of this wisdom?


dirt. The basic design of the engine has not changed. Aluminum
bearings (basically) aluminum pistons, and cast iron crank and
cylinders. Oil gets dirty., doesn't matter how much the oil costs, or
how fancy the vehicle is. The oil still gets dirty in about 3000 miles.
(given an approximate 5 quart capacity). Larger sumps can go
proportionally longer.

The big killer is combustion byproducts. Since engines are a lot cleaner
burning than they once were, this is reduced somewhat. The manuals on my cars
recommend 7500mi for light service and 3000mi for severe duty. Look up the
meaning of "severe duty" and it includes pretty much everything except
non-stop interstate driving in 70F, dry, weather.

On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 20:56:09 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Aug 25, 8:35Â*am, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:30:05 GMT, Red Green
wrote:





Harry K wrote in news:9f59ffdf-0a25-469d-a2d9-
:

On Aug 24, 7:22Â*pm, ed_h wrote:
On Aug 24, 9:02Â*pm, Metspitzer wrote:

All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

My truck has a built in feature that puts a message up on the dash
readout when it's time to change oil. Â*The owners manual says that the
message is based on a lot of things, including length of trips,
temperature, and driving habits, and to change oil when I get the
message, or at 7000 miles, whichever is sooner. Â*The message typically
pops up at around 6000-7500 miles.

The factory dealer's service department still puts on the 3000 mile
sticker, though.

I do at 3,000. Â*Been around 6 years since I read the manual but IIRC
it give 3,000 for 'severe service'. Â*Since most of my driving is only
4 miles to town and 4 back that certainly is sever service as it never
gets properly warmed up.

Harry K

You probably go through a lot of exhaust fixes.

4 miles should be enough to heat up the exhaust well.
Probably. Â*Can't say I ever checked it.

--Vic- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Never have had to fix any car exhausts but to keep SWMBO happy I chnge
cars often. Now my truck....I need to replace the whole thing again.
Everything aft of the muffler stub is gone...as in dropped off
somewhere on the road. This is the second time for it and I bought it
used. Currently at 150,000

Harry K
Most cars come with stainless exhausts now - and those that don't -
put them on at first replacement. My first Aerostar exhaust went at
about 30 months - the replacement stainless lasted untill the guy I
sold it to scrapped it at 300,000km, about 15 years or so later.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 20:05:48 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 20:56:09 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
wrote:

On Aug 25, 8:35*am, Vic Smith wrote:
On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:30:05 GMT, Red Green
wrote:





Harry K wrote in news:9f59ffdf-0a25-469d-a2d9-
:

On Aug 24, 7:22*pm, ed_h wrote:
On Aug 24, 9:02*pm, Metspitzer wrote:

All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

My truck has a built in feature that puts a message up on the dash
readout when it's time to change oil. *The owners manual says that the
message is based on a lot of things, including length of trips,
temperature, and driving habits, and to change oil when I get the
message, or at 7000 miles, whichever is sooner. *The message typically
pops up at around 6000-7500 miles.

The factory dealer's service department still puts on the 3000 mile
sticker, though.

I do at 3,000. *Been around 6 years since I read the manual but IIRC
it give 3,000 for 'severe service'. *Since most of my driving is only
4 miles to town and 4 back that certainly is sever service as it never
gets properly warmed up.

Harry K

You probably go through a lot of exhaust fixes.

4 miles should be enough to heat up the exhaust well.
Probably. *Can't say I ever checked it.

--Vic- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Never have had to fix any car exhausts but to keep SWMBO happy I chnge
cars often. Now my truck....I need to replace the whole thing again.
Everything aft of the muffler stub is gone...as in dropped off
somewhere on the road. This is the second time for it and I bought it
used. Currently at 150,000

Harry K
Most cars come with stainless exhausts now - and those that don't -
put them on at first replacement. My first Aerostar exhaust went at
about 30 months - the replacement stainless lasted untill the guy I
sold it to scrapped it at 300,000km, about 15 years or so later.

My SS exhaust went after 9 years (90K miles). Salt is a bitch.

On Fri, 26 Aug 2011 18:17:49 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 8/26/2011 11:57 AM, ed_h wrote:
On Aug 26, 10:53 am, Steve wrote:
On 8/24/2011 9:02 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

Good advice. Oil SHOULD be changed every 3000 miles.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

What is the source of this wisdom?


dirt. The basic design of the engine has not changed. Aluminum
bearings (basically) aluminum pistons, and cast iron crank and
cylinders. Oil gets dirty., doesn't matter how much the oil costs, or
how fancy the vehicle is. The oil still gets dirty in about 3000 miles.
(given an approximate 5 quart capacity). Larger sumps can go
proportionally longer.
There has been one MAJOR change in automotive engines/oil over tha
last 40+ years. And that tis the introduction of lead-free gasoline.
That is the only MAJOR change that has worked to make extended oil
change intervals viable, because with unleaded gasoline there needs to
be less Phosphorous and other additives to keep the lead from forming
harmfull deposits. This reduction has reduced theacid level in the
crankcase - allowing the buffer additives to last longer (which
allowed the oil companies to add less to the oil, getting you back,
basically, to pretty well the same point.

The other, lesser change, was the introduction of fuel injection,
which controls fuel mixture better and reduces fuel dilution of the
oil - which allows winter change intervals to more closely track warm
weather intervals.

For short trip, widely varying temperature and humidity conditions,
3000 mile 3 month oil change intervals still make some sense. These
conditions constitute "extreme" duty - as do trailer towing or
extended high speed high load operation. Aproxemaetly 30-50% of north
american driving falls outside of these parameters, making extended
oil drain periods acceptable.

My car generally drives 3-5 km at a time, 3 times a day, 5 days a
week, with an extra 15Km twice a day (one of those days)once a week
and an occaisional 100km drive every couple of weeks. Every couple of
years it gets a couple thousand KM put on over a 2 week period. 5000km
(3000 miles) is 5 months of winter driving, and 7 of warm weather
driving in a normal year.

My wife's car got about half as many trips of the same length per
week, and mabee twice as many 100km trips, with one 3000km trip over
the last 9 years. It's 16 years old and just turned the 160,000km
(100,000 miles) 2 weeks ago - for an average of 10,000km (6000 miles)
per year with 60% or more of those miles in the first 5 years, before
we bought it.

Is 2 oil changes a year per vehicle a waste of time, money, and other
resources??????

I think not.

On Aug 26, 8:53*am, Steve Barker wrote:
On 8/24/2011 9:02 PM, Metspitzer wrote:

All the oil change places still put 3000 in the window sticker.

Good advice. *Oil SHOULD be changed every 3000 miles.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

I hope yu have advised the auto makers world wide of this remarkable
requirement. They need to change their manuals ASAP.

Harry K

The big killer is combustion byproducts. Since engines are a lot cleaner
burning than they once were, this is reduced somewhat. The manuals on my cars
recommend 7500mi for light service and 3000mi for severe duty. Look up the
meaning of "severe duty" and it includes pretty much everything except
non-stop interstate driving in 70F, dry, weather.

This is true! Or 'light service' could be described as 7,500 miles, all
run in one 'trip', on a dyno, mounted in a clean room. Not 'real world
usage...

Rant mode on:

Modern conventional oil's don't 'break down' in short trip usage, but
rapidly becomes more and more contaminated with water and acids...
leading to bearing deterioration, sludge issues, and hardening of seals.
Note that modern oils are still wonderful lubricants even after being
run well beyond their recommended change intervals... it's contaminates
that are the issue. (Dirt becomes more of an issue if the oil is run
long enough cause a filter bypass to open, or if you get a bum oil or
air filter. Modern oil and air filters are for the most part very good.)

If your 'average' trip is on the order of more than 20 min or so, oil
will routinely reach sufficient temperatures, and maintain them long
enough too boil off most (but not all) contaminates. These are
eliminated by the PCV. For 'long' trips, yes, 5 or 6 thousand miles
change intervals are fine.

But if your normal usage is short (or dusty) trips, contaminates rapidly
become more and more concentrated. It's here where you should do changes
every 3,000 miles, OR 90 DAYS, which ever comes first! 90 days as in
actually marking it on the calendar, and ignoring the odometer unless
it's racked up over 3k miles!

Remember, that water and acid are continuously at work, even when the
vehicle is just sitting parked. (Expensive synthetic oils contaminate
just like conventional's by the way.) 3k change intervals also minimize
dirt issues in the event you happen on a a bad oil or air filter too...
it happens on occasion.

If you don't care about the car, or trade every couple of years, run it
as long as you want! On the other hand, you can get a LOT of dependable
service out of most any engine by regularly changing oil. (Do the
coolant every year too... that's a rant for another day.)

Four oil changes a year isn't that big a deal...

Rant off.

Erik

On 8/26/2011 5:53 PM, Metspitzer wrote:
(snip)

The amount of money government spends "creating jobs" is just throwing
money at the problem. The most effective way our government could
create jobs would be to only spend government money on American made
products and legal American workers.

While I mostly agree with you in principle, I'm afraid that ship has
long since sailed. A whole lot of what the government buys is no longer
made in this country, period. The factories aren't even THERE anymore.
Congress did pass the so-called 'Buy America' act several years back
which tried to require what you advocate, but I'm not sure they even try
to enforce it any more. Try to buy a computer (for example) that isn't
mainly China or Pacific-rim sourced. And the gummint buys a Whole Lotta
computers.

--
aem sends...