If he would have used a Harbor Freight Multifunction tool instead of a
circular saw he wouldn't be facing 30 years:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/bro...,5468143.story

or:

http://tinyurl.com/3nsw4xv

On 7/19/2011 1:22 AM, Kuskokwim wrote:
If he would have used a Harbor Freight Multifunction tool instead of a
circular saw he wouldn't be facing 30 years:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/bro...,5468143.story

or:

http://tinyurl.com/3nsw4xv

Ya know, there was probably no malice intended, just rampant stupidity
and ignorance. Should we criminalize every stupid accident? Perhaps to
protect other people from the terminally stupid. ^_^

TDD

"Kuskokwim" wrote in message
.. .
If he would have used a Harbor Freight Multifunction tool instead of a
circular saw he wouldn't be facing 30 years:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/bro...,5468143.story

or:

http://tinyurl.com/3nsw4xv

Dumb as this guy is, he should not be facing jail time. Should we jail
everyone for being stupid? We could not build enough prisons.

This was not a case of intended abuse or maliciousness, it is just plain
ignorance.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Kuskokwim" wrote in message
.. .
If he would have used a Harbor Freight Multifunction tool instead of a
circular saw he wouldn't be facing 30 years:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/bro...,5468143.story

or:

http://tinyurl.com/3nsw4xv

Dumb as this guy is, he should not be facing jail time. Should we jail
everyone for being stupid? We could not build enough prisons.

This was not a case of intended abuse or maliciousness, it is just plain
ignorance.

Isn't that the common manner for cast removal in rural Appalachia?

Steve

On 2011-07-19, Kuskokwim wrote:
If he would have used a Harbor Freight Multifunction tool instead of a
circular saw he wouldn't be facing 30 years:

Where does it say he's facing 30 yrs? That's kinda extreme for jes
being stupid.

nb

On 2011-07-19, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Dumb as this guy is, he should not be facing jail time. Should we jail
everyone for being stupid? We could not build enough prisons.

Nor could we staff them.

This was not a case of intended abuse or maliciousness, it is just plain
ignorance.

I said stupidity, too, but you are closer to the truth. Right up till
the time I had a plaster cast removed, I also thought those cutting
tools were, in fact, a type of circular saw. Certainly looks like
one. I even drew back when the med tech approached me. It wasn't
till the med tech put his hand on the vibrating blade to show me it
wasn't turning that I realized how that gizmo actually worked.

nb

On 19 Jul 2011 13:17:13 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2011-07-19, Kuskokwim wrote:
If he would have used a Harbor Freight Multifunction tool instead of a
circular saw he wouldn't be facing 30 years:

Where does it say he's facing 30 yrs? That's kinda extreme for jes
being stupid.

nb

"...aggravated child abuse, a first-degree felony, punishable by up to
30 years in prison."

The man will not likely go to prison, but instead receive Probation
with supervision for say 5 years.

Given this is Florida I'm not at all surprised.

--
When the last America leaves Miami please bring the Flag

In article ,
Oren wrote:

On 19 Jul 2011 13:17:13 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2011-07-19, Kuskokwim wrote:
If he would have used a Harbor Freight Multifunction tool instead of a
circular saw he wouldn't be facing 30 years:

Where does it say he's facing 30 yrs? That's kinda extreme for jes
being stupid.

nb

"...aggravated child abuse, a first-degree felony, punishable by up to
30 years in prison."

The man will not likely go to prison, but instead receive Probation
with supervision for say 5 years.

Given this is Florida I'm not at all surprised.

Others have presumed him innocent of malice, but I didn't see any
evidence of that. He's definitely an idiot, but that doesn't mean he
didn't attack his son with the saw intending to cause injury.

On Jul 19, 11:19*am, Smitty Two wrote:
Others have presumed him innocent of malice, but I didn't see any
evidence of that. He's definitely an idiot, but that doesn't mean he
didn't attack his son with the saw intending to cause injury.

I agree that that's quite possible but that's not how our system is
"supposed" to work. He probably shouldn't get that much jail time
unless there's evidence that there WAS malice. The son would probably
be the only one who could answer this...and between having his hand
nearly sawed off and the fact that it's his father, I wouldn't
consider him a reliable witness for either side...

But note that the second article doesn't say he's facing 30 years,
just that the crime he's accused of CAN be punished by UP TO 30
years...

Kuskokwim wrote in
:

If he would have used a Harbor Freight Multifunction tool instead of a
circular saw he wouldn't be facing 30 years:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/bro...fl-coral-sprin
gs-dad-saw-20110718,0,5468143.story

or:

http://tinyurl.com/3nsw4xv

I'm baffled. He just looks so bright.

On Jul 19, 11:54*am, Larry Fishel wrote:
On Jul 19, 11:19*am, Smitty Two wrote:

Others have presumed him innocent of malice, but I didn't see any
evidence of that. He's definitely an idiot, but that doesn't mean he
didn't attack his son with the saw intending to cause injury.

I agree that that's quite possible but that's not how our system is
"supposed" to work. He probably shouldn't get that much jail time
unless there's evidence that there WAS malice. The son would probably
be the only one who could answer this...and between having his hand
nearly sawed off and the fact that it's his father, I wouldn't
consider him a reliable witness for either side...

But note that the second article doesn't say he's facing 30 years,
just that the crime he's accused of CAN be punished by UP TO 30
years...

What is the definition of "facing jail time" or more specifically
"facing X years of jail time"?

Is X the specific time that you have been sentenced to and are
currently waiting to serve or is X the amount of time you *could* get
based on the offense you have committed?

I've always understood it to be the latter but have no specific reason
(that I recall) for that understanding.

Therefore, based on my understanding, I'd say he was facing 30 years -
but could be convinced otherwise.

DerbyDad03 wrote the following:
On Jul 19, 11:54 am, Larry Fishel wrote:

On Jul 19, 11:19 am, Smitty Two wrote:


Others have presumed him innocent of malice, but I didn't see any
evidence of that. He's definitely an idiot, but that doesn't mean he
didn't attack his son with the saw intending to cause injury.

I agree that that's quite possible but that's not how our system is
"supposed" to work. He probably shouldn't get that much jail time
unless there's evidence that there WAS malice. The son would probably
be the only one who could answer this...and between having his hand
nearly sawed off and the fact that it's his father, I wouldn't
consider him a reliable witness for either side...

But note that the second article doesn't say he's facing 30 years,
just that the crime he's accused of CAN be punished by UP TO 30
years...


What is the definition of "facing jail time" or more specifically
"facing X years of jail time"?

Is X the specific time that you have been sentenced to and are
currently waiting to serve or is X the amount of time you *could* get
based on the offense you have committed?

I've always understood it to be the latter but have no specific reason
(that I recall) for that understanding.

Therefore, based on my understanding, I'd say he was facing 30 years -
but could be convinced otherwise.

"...up to 30 years in prison"

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:07:54 GMT, Red Green
wrote:

Kuskokwim wrote in
t:

If he would have used a Harbor Freight Multifunction tool instead of a
circular saw he wouldn't be facing 30 years:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/bro...fl-coral-sprin
gs-dad-saw-20110718,0,5468143.story

or:

http://tinyurl.com/3nsw4xv

I'm baffled. He just looks so bright.

....but the guy is not charged with being "bright".

On Jul 19, 11:19*am, Smitty Two wrote:
Others have presumed him innocent of malice, but I didn't see any
evidence of that. He's definitely an idiot, but that doesn't mean he
didn't attack his son with the saw intending to cause injury.

If he was attacking his son, intending to cause injury, why target the
cast and ONLY the cast? Even if the kid put up his cast hand to
protect himself, there would be other injuries if it was a malicious
attack.

wrote in message
...
On Jul 19, 11:19 am, Smitty Two wrote:
Others have presumed him innocent of malice, but I didn't see any
evidence of that. He's definitely an idiot, but that doesn't mean he
didn't attack his son with the saw intending to cause injury.

If he was attacking his son, intending to cause injury, why target the
cast and ONLY the cast? Even if the kid put up his cast hand to
protect himself, there would be other injuries if it was a malicious
attack.

Question: Was it a crosscut, rip, masonry, metal-cutting, or plywood blade?
I think a lot of intent could be deduced by stating those facts.

Steve

"Steve B" wrote in
:


wrote in message

... On Jul 19, 11:19 am, Smitty Two wrote:
Others have presumed him innocent of malice, but I didn't see any
evidence of that. He's definitely an idiot, but that doesn't mean he
didn't attack his son with the saw intending to cause injury.

If he was attacking his son, intending to cause injury, why target the
cast and ONLY the cast? Even if the kid put up his cast hand to
protect himself, there would be other injuries if it was a malicious
attack.

Question: Was it a crosscut, rip, masonry, metal-cutting, or plywood
blade? I think a lot of intent could be deduced by stating those
facts.

Steve




I imagine the 30 year max would be for a Dual Saw. 25 years if it was a HF
one.

"Smitty Two" wrote in message newsrestwhich-

stuff snipped

Others have presumed him innocent of malice, but I didn't see any
evidence of that. He's definitely an idiot, but that doesn't mean he
didn't attack his son with the saw intending to cause injury.

All we know is what some Florida reporter (IIRC) wrote. We would be lucky
if they even got the name right. Maybe he's the guy who put the kid in a
cast in the first place. We don't know.

But "intent" is essential to our legal system. I am betting that once he
found out what it would cost him to have it removed by a doctor, his
"intent" became to save $ and he decided he could do it on the cheap.

http://www.costhelper.com/cost/health/broken-arm.html

Without health insurance, surgical treatment of a broken arm typically costs
$16,000 or more. For example, surgical treatment of a fracture of the
humerus (upper arm bone) costs about $14,911, not including the surgeon fee,
at Baptist Memorial Health Care in Memphis, Tennessee. According to the
Minnesota Council of Health Plans, non-surgical treatment for a broken arm
typically costs about $2,523. At some point in the "budget cutting" party we
all need to have, we need to ask WTF is going on with medical fees? Am I
the only one wondering why my bills say words to the effect (humor alert):

Non-discounted Cost / Actual Cost / Negotiated Cost / Blue Sky Cost / "X"
adjustment / Don't Ask Fee (doubles if you ask them about it) / "Why"
adjustment / Doctior Willing to accept this insulting discount amount
because if he doesn't we'll blackball him.

You Pay What We Say:

Hell, I might have been tempted to at least Dremel the sucker off myself if
it was a $400 job.

--
Bobby G.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On 19 Jul 2011 13:17:13 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2011-07-19, Kuskokwim wrote:
If he would have used a Harbor Freight Multifunction tool instead of a
circular saw he wouldn't be facing 30 years:

Where does it say he's facing 30 yrs? That's kinda extreme for jes
being stupid.

nb

"...aggravated child abuse, a first-degree felony, punishable by up to
30 years in prison."

The man will not likely go to prison, but instead receive Probation
with supervision for say 5 years.

Given this is Florida I'm not at all surprised.

One of the most vexing things victims of serious crimes discover is how
little (if any) jail time their attackers will receive. Ask most victims of
attempted murder what their attacker should receive and usually it's the
death sentence or at least life in prison. The reality: Unless their
attackers are habitual criminals, they may actually serve seven years or
less, depending on the circumstances. The might even get probation. If
everyone did their full time, we would probably not have enough prisons even
if we converted all the Wal*Marts into jails overnight.

--
Bobby G.

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote in
:


wrote in message

... On Jul 19, 11:19 am, Smitty Two wrote:
Others have presumed him innocent of malice, but I didn't see any
evidence of that. He's definitely an idiot, but that doesn't mean he
didn't attack his son with the saw intending to cause injury.

If he was attacking his son, intending to cause injury, why target the
cast and ONLY the cast? Even if the kid put up his cast hand to
protect himself, there would be other injuries if it was a malicious
attack.

Question: Was it a crosscut, rip, masonry, metal-cutting, or plywood
blade? I think a lot of intent could be deduced by stating those
facts.

Steve




I imagine the 30 year max would be for a Dual Saw. 25 years if it was a HF
one.

Well, with the HF, at least there was some chance of the victim not getting
cut..............

Steve

On 2011-07-19, Oren wrote:
On 19 Jul 2011 13:17:13 GMT, notbob wrote:

Where does it say he's facing 30 yrs? That's kinda extreme for jes
being stupid.

"...aggravated child abuse, a first-degree felony, punishable by up to
30 years in prison."

My browser musta hidden that. I run noscript, which kills a lotta
crap.

Regardless, this country is totally out of control! The patients are
running the asylum.

I ran off an icy road and hit a tree. I was going about 7-8mph. I
wasn't even shaken, but my 83 yr old mom had, unbeknownst to me, taken
off her seat belt and ended up cracking her kneecap. I was sober as a judge and
had superlative medical coverage. Yet, I discovered later, this
"misdemeanor" carried a possible $5K fine and/or 18 mos in jail! ....fer
and act fo god!! So, nothing surprises me, anymore. This country
WANTS to put ppl in prison. It's a growth industry in the US and I'm
not kidding. Putting you in jail is a commercial enterprise.

We are SO overdue.

nb

On 7/19/2011 11:45 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2011-07-19, wrote:
On 19 Jul 2011 13:17:13 GMT, wrote:

Where does it say he's facing 30 yrs? That's kinda extreme for jes
being stupid.

"...aggravated child abuse, a first-degree felony, punishable by up to
30 years in prison."

My browser musta hidden that. I run noscript, which kills a lotta
crap.

Regardless, this country is totally out of control! The patients are
running the asylum.

I ran off an icy road and hit a tree. I was going about 7-8mph. I
wasn't even shaken, but my 83 yr old mom had, unbeknownst to me, taken
off her seat belt and ended up cracking her kneecap. I was sober as a judge and
had superlative medical coverage. Yet, I discovered later, this
"misdemeanor" carried a possible $5K fine and/or 18 mos in jail! ....fer
and act fo god!! So, nothing surprises me, anymore. This country
WANTS to put ppl in prison. It's a growth industry in the US and I'm
not kidding. Putting you in jail is a commercial enterprise.

We are SO overdue.

nb

I noticed the trend to criminalize accidents years ago. It seems that
the powers to be at the time were hell bent on placing blame on anyone
involved in an accident and making them pay by bringing criminal charges
against that person. We can't just have accidents anymore no matter how
unavoidable or tragic it is because it has become a blame game.

TDD

On 2011-07-20, The Daring Dufas wrote:

I noticed the trend to criminalize accidents years ago. It seems that
the powers to be at the time were hell bent on placing blame on anyone
involved in an accident and making them pay by bringing criminal charges
against that person.

Revenue. Simple revenue generation. Take DUIs. What's that up to,
now? $8-10K for the first offense. Fines, ongoing alcohol testing
fees, drug abuse class fees, turn-your-life-around class fees, court
costs, etc. Yet, notice how not only has the govt NOT done a single
thing to discourage sales of alcohol, but now seems to be encouraging
it. Hard liquor commercials back on TV for the first time in 40 yrs,
our state allowing the sale of alcohol for the first time since we
gained statehood. Hypocrisy? No, revenue.

We can't just have accidents anymore no matter how unavoidable or
tragic it is because it has become a blame game.

We've got 264 private lock-ups in the US. They gotta be fed so profits
can be made and palms greased:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison%...strial_complex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prison

We've alway believed any dictatorship or all powerful police state
would be the result of some control-the-world despot or fanatical
radical group. Nope. Good ol' democratic capitalism seems to be
doing the job, jes fine.

nb

"Steve B" wrote in
:


"Red Green" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote in
:


wrote in message

om ... On Jul 19, 11:19 am, Smitty Two
wrote:
Others have presumed him innocent of malice, but I didn't see any
evidence of that. He's definitely an idiot, but that doesn't mean
he didn't attack his son with the saw intending to cause injury.

If he was attacking his son, intending to cause injury, why target
the cast and ONLY the cast? Even if the kid put up his cast hand to
protect himself, there would be other injuries if it was a malicious
attack.

Question: Was it a crosscut, rip, masonry, metal-cutting, or
plywood blade? I think a lot of intent could be deduced by stating
those facts.

Steve




I imagine the 30 year max would be for a Dual Saw. 25 years if it was
a HF one.

Well, with the HF, at least there was some chance of the victim not
getting cut..............

Steve




That was a sharp comment...or was it a dull comment?

On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 03:38:22 GMT, Red Green
wrote:

Question: Was it a crosscut, rip, masonry, metal-cutting, or plywood
blade? I think a lot of intent could be deduced by stating those
facts.

Steve




I imagine the 30 year max would be for a Dual Saw. 25 years if it was a HF
one.

How mush time for using a Sawzall? Must depend on the type of blade..

On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 00:19:29 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Oren" wrote in message
.. .
On 19 Jul 2011 13:17:13 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2011-07-19, Kuskokwim wrote:
If he would have used a Harbor Freight Multifunction tool instead of a
circular saw he wouldn't be facing 30 years:

Where does it say he's facing 30 yrs? That's kinda extreme for jes
being stupid.

nb

"...aggravated child abuse, a first-degree felony, punishable by up to
30 years in prison."

The man will not likely go to prison, but instead receive Probation
with supervision for say 5 years.

Given this is Florida I'm not at all surprised.

One of the most vexing things victims of serious crimes discover is how
little (if any) jail time their attackers will receive. Ask most victims of
attempted murder what their attacker should receive and usually it's the
death sentence or at least life in prison. The reality: Unless their
attackers are habitual criminals, they may actually serve seven years or
less, depending on the circumstances. The might even get probation. If
everyone did their full time, we would probably not have enough prisons even
if we converted all the Wal*Marts into jails overnight.

In Florida in '77, a man could get 5 years for manslaughter. He would
do a "3-6-9". Three years, six months and 9 days. Double
manslaughter - maybe 7 years or such.

The Criminal Justice System (CJS) is like a giant funnel. Put 100% of
the those arrested in the system, 85% of those are diverted to
community based programs. The 15 % actually go to prison. Upon
release, 85% of those crooks are recidivist and return to prison.

In '79 the Federal prison had 52,000 convicts. Today it is over
200,000 ( bop.gov )

Much of that growth came from the War on Drugs, elimination of Parole,
Good Time and .... recidivist.

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote in
:


"Red Green" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote in
:


wrote in message

om ... On Jul 19, 11:19 am, Smitty Two
wrote:
Others have presumed him innocent of malice, but I didn't see any
evidence of that. He's definitely an idiot, but that doesn't mean
he didn't attack his son with the saw intending to cause injury.

If he was attacking his son, intending to cause injury, why target
the cast and ONLY the cast? Even if the kid put up his cast hand to
protect himself, there would be other injuries if it was a malicious
attack.

Question: Was it a crosscut, rip, masonry, metal-cutting, or
plywood blade? I think a lot of intent could be deduced by stating
those facts.

Steve




I imagine the 30 year max would be for a Dual Saw. 25 years if it was
a HF one.

Well, with the HF, at least there was some chance of the victim not
getting cut..............

Steve




That was a sharp comment...or was it a dull comment?

Just to say, HF blades aren't always the sharpest in the toolbox.

Steve