Thanks to everyone who's responded to my last question about aluminum
wiring. I thought I'd investigate the option of using a hydrolic
pressing or crimping tool to add copper pigtails onto the aluminum
wires. Apparently that's how aluminum wire connections are made by the
utility companies.

I know there's a tool available and certified for residental wiring,
called COPALUM, unfortunately the company who offers this tool has very
strict rules and regulations, etc. regarding who can use it, etc. ...
making it quite expensive to actually use, not to mention that no one
in Canada is actually certified at the moment to use this tool.

However, electrical utilities obvioulsy have tools that they use also
for such things. Hence I'm wondering if anyone could help me dig up
some information on other powered crimping tools that can be used to
attach copper to aluminum wire.

Thanks,
Harry

Harry Muscle wrote:


...using a hydrolic pressing or crimping tool ...

That would be "hydraulic"...

I've notice this pretty consistently and it grates on my eyes...

For ordinary household wiring don't think you'll find anything that
would be practical.

I think what you've found is that the perceived potential liability has
essentially prevented the introduction of anything for consumer/end user
use. Don't foresee this changing.

Sorry about the spelling. I thought the word looked a little off ...
should have run spell check I guess

Thanks,
Harry

There are many crimping tools designed for wiring (not necessarily house
wiring but any) that will work with #12 wire no problem. I have also seen
copper sleeves (Ferrules?) for use in crimping wire in the electrical
section at HD and other hardware stores.

Hydrolic is probably overkill if you are doing only one house (maybe if you
are thinking about going into business but....) A simple mechanical
ratcheting crimping tool will work fine. The cheaper one that come with the
connector kits will not be able to give you enough mechanical advantage and
the crimp is too narrow. There are many brands and can be found in the
electrical tools section of almost any hardware store probably right next to
the copper sleeves.




"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Harry Muscle wrote:


...using a hydrolic pressing or crimping tool ...

That would be "hydraulic"...

I've notice this pretty consistently and it grates on my eyes...

For ordinary household wiring don't think you'll find anything that
would be practical.

I think what you've found is that the perceived potential liability has
essentially prevented the introduction of anything for consumer/end user
use. Don't foresee this changing.

PipeDown wrote:
There are many crimping tools designed for wiring (not necessarily house
wiring but any) that will work with #12 wire no problem. I have also seen
copper sleeves (Ferrules?) for use in crimping wire in the electrical
section at HD and other hardware stores.

Hydrolic is probably overkill if you are doing only one house (maybe if you
are thinking about going into business but....) A simple mechanical
ratcheting crimping tool will work fine. The cheaper one that come with the
connector kits will not be able to give you enough mechanical advantage and
the crimp is too narrow. There are many brands and can be found in the
electrical tools section of almost any hardware store probably right next to
the copper sleeves.



You could make a perfectly good crimper out of a cheap pair of bolt
cutters by drilling or grinding the right sized hole in the blades.

The bigger problem is finding crimp sleeves that are appropriate for
joining copper and aluminum. Tin plated might be compatible with both
metals, I'm not sure.

Bob

zxcvbob wrote:

....
The bigger problem is finding crimp sleeves that are appropriate for
joining copper and aluminum. Tin plated might be compatible with both
metals, I'm not sure.

That's where I'd think the problem lies, too...and if one is looking for
NEC-approved or equivalent as I thought OP was, that could be a problem.

I guess NicoPress would be one place one could start looking...we use
them on electric fence, but that's not the same thing by any stretch as
for residential wiring...

See
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/know...2098-8,00.html
"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks to everyone who's responded to my last question about aluminum
wiring. I thought I'd investigate the option of using a hydrolic
pressing or crimping tool to add copper pigtails onto the aluminum
wires. Apparently that's how aluminum wire connections are made by the
utility companies.

I know there's a tool available and certified for residental wiring,
called COPALUM, unfortunately the company who offers this tool has very
strict rules and regulations, etc. regarding who can use it, etc. ...
making it quite expensive to actually use, not to mention that no one
in Canada is actually certified at the moment to use this tool.

However, electrical utilities obvioulsy have tools that they use also
for such things. Hence I'm wondering if anyone could help me dig up
some information on other powered crimping tools that can be used to
attach copper to aluminum wire.

Thanks,
Harry

Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical, alt.building.construction,
alt.home.repair, misc.consumers.house
From: "barbarow" - Find messages by this author

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:09:50 GMT
Local: Wed, Aug 10 2005 3:09 pm
Subject: Powered crimping tool equivalent to COPALUM tool

See
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/know...cle/0,16417,56...


*****

Thanks. I know about those, however, even though they are UL approved
the CPSC has apparently shown in tests that they do in fact fail under
normal conditions ... hence they do not approve of them. Therefore I
was hoping to find a solution that both testing agencies approve of ...
the only one I'm aware of is the COPALUM tool. They don't seem to have
as negative a view of CO/ALR approved devices (even though they do say
that they also have failed in tests). But since not everything is
available as CO/ALR compatible you're back to having to use pigtails,
at least for some things.

Harry

Harry Muscle wrote:

Newsgroups: alt.engineering.electrical, alt.building.construction,
alt.home.repair, misc.consumers.house
From: "barbarow" - Find messages by this author

Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:09:50 GMT
Local: Wed, Aug 10 2005 3:09 pm
Subject: Powered crimping tool equivalent to COPALUM tool

See
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/know...cle/0,16417,56...

*****

Thanks. I know about those, however, even though they are UL approved
the CPSC has apparently shown in tests that they do in fact fail under
normal conditions ... hence they do not approve of them. Therefore I
was hoping to find a solution that both testing agencies approve of ...
the only one I'm aware of is the COPALUM tool. They don't seem to have
as negative a view of CO/ALR approved devices (even though they do say
that they also have failed in tests). But since not everything is
available as CO/ALR compatible you're back to having to use pigtails,
at least for some things.

Harry

As I say, I'd start w/ Nicopress. www.nicopress.com

According to PipeDown :
There are many crimping tools designed for wiring (not necessarily house
wiring but any) that will work with #12 wire no problem. I have also seen
copper sleeves (Ferrules?) for use in crimping wire in the electrical
section at HD and other hardware stores.

There are indeed _many_ crimping tools and sleeves. But few of them
are UL/CSA/NEC/CEC approved for work on AC power wiring. And secondly,
_none_ of them (except the COPALUM device _with_ the hydraulic crimper)
are approved for connecting aluminum wire to copper.

So, telling people to just wander into the automotive section, and use
whatever they find there on their AC power wiring (whether Aluminum or
not) is a very bad idea.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks to everyone who's responded to my last question about aluminum
wiring. I thought I'd investigate the option of using a hydrolic
pressing or crimping tool to add copper pigtails onto the aluminum
wires. Apparently that's how aluminum wire connections are made by the
utility companies.

I know there's a tool available and certified for residental wiring,
called COPALUM, unfortunately the company who offers this tool has very
strict rules and regulations, etc. regarding who can use it, etc. ...
making it quite expensive to actually use, not to mention that no one
in Canada is actually certified at the moment to use this tool.

However, electrical utilities obvioulsy have tools that they use also
for such things. Hence I'm wondering if anyone could help me dig up
some information on other powered crimping tools that can be used to
attach copper to aluminum wire.

Thanks,
Harry

ratching crimpers are what I would and do use.

The biggest issue is to find a crimp that is AL/CU rated.
After much googling I found this
http://www.cpsc.gov/CPSCPUB/PREREL/prhtml03/03120.html

"COPALUM connectors are available from Tyco Electronics under the AMP brand.
Consumers can check to see if the COPALUM connector system is available in
their area by calling the company at (800) 522-6752. To order a list of
authorized electricians in their area, consumers can write to: Tyco
Electronics Corp., Attn: Aluminum Wire Repair Program, P.O. Box 3608,
Harrisburg, PA 17105-3608. If no authorized electrician is currently located
nearby, consumers can have an electrician interested in repairing their home
contact the nearest supplier of AMP- brand COPALUM connectors for training
and other repair information."

Seems no one is going to sell parts,,,, tools yes.

Have fun anything that is this "closed" I have serious suspicions about.

Harry Muscle wrote:
If you use crimp/compression connections the crimper has to be one that
the manufacurer says can be used.

My experience is that solid wire does not work in a crimp (#14-#10
range) - partly because too much torque can be applied from the wire the
crimp connection. Looking at a panduit catalog I didn't see any
limitation on solid wire. Make sure crimp connectors are listed for
solid wire if that is what you have (small gauge stranded aluminum wire
probably does not exist).

My suggestion would be to use copper/aluminum rated wire nuts; crimp in
small wire sounds like a pain. In general I look for wire nuts with a
'live spring' - the spring deforms over the wires making a tighter
connection.

In the trivia department, in compression connections on larger wire, the
sleeve is compressed so tight there is a cold weld between the sleeve
and wire.

Bud--



From: "barbarow" - Find messages by this author

See
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/know...cle/0,16417,56...

(link doesn't work)


*****

Thanks. I know about those, however, even though they are UL approved
the CPSC has apparently shown in tests that they do in fact fail under
normal conditions ... hence they do not approve of them. Therefore I
was hoping to find a solution that both testing agencies approve of ...
the only one I'm aware of is the COPALUM tool. They don't seem to have
as negative a view of CO/ALR approved devices (even though they do say
that they also have failed in tests). But since not everything is
available as CO/ALR compatible you're back to having to use pigtails,
at least for some things.

Harry

Apparently the COPALUM tool I mentioned in the original post does in
fact create a cold weld to the aluminum and copper. Which means the
equivalent tool I'm trying to find would also have to be able to create
enough pressure to do the same ... am I correct in assuming that that
rules out hand operated crimping tools and only leaves powered ones?

Thanks,
Harry

P.S. According to some of the information available on the COPALUM
tool, it creates 10,000 pounds of pressure.

COPALUM is the tool I mentioned in my original post. Unfortunately,
it's virtually impossible for one to get their hands on it ... first
off you have to be a licensed electrician, then you need to get
certified (apparently only one guy in all of Canada is certified, but
he no longer works with this tools and wants nothing to do with it due
to the costs associated), then you can finally get the tool, but they
only rent it, never sell it ... way to much hassle and cost to go thru.

Thanks,
Harry

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
ups.com...
Apparently the COPALUM tool I mentioned in the original post does in
fact create a cold weld to the aluminum and copper. Which means the
equivalent tool I'm trying to find would also have to be able to create
enough pressure to do the same ... am I correct in assuming that that
rules out hand operated crimping tools and only leaves powered ones?

Thanks,
Harry

P.S. According to some of the information available on the COPALUM
tool, it creates 10,000 pounds of pressure.


At least it would need to be as big as a pair of bolt cutters if it did
exist.

Any luck finding approved wire nuts?

"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
ups.com...
Apparently the COPALUM tool I mentioned in the original post does in
fact create a cold weld to the aluminum and copper. Which means the
equivalent tool I'm trying to find would also have to be able to create
enough pressure to do the same ... am I correct in assuming that that
rules out hand operated crimping tools and only leaves powered ones?


Small lugs and connector pin crimping tools, such as those by AMP and
Amphenol for signal cables (e.g. 18 AWG and smaller) also create 'coldweld'
crimps, using just hand tools. But for anything larger such as 12AWG and
larger, I think you'd pretty much have to use something with a lot of
mechanical advantage such as hydraulic.

daestrom

the bottom line is that for the type of aluminum wire that is a
problem, there is no real good solution. the tool is indeed never sold
(only rented) and only rented to electricians and then only after you
take a class and get certified to use the tool (and probably sign a
bazillion waivers).

there are some wire nuts available that have some antioxidant compound
in them but purportedly they are not a good solution either.

since you mention canada, i gather you are there and there are no
certfiied users there anymore. that should tell you a lot.

the aluminum wires now in use are a different alloy than the small
gauge wiring that caused some fires a few years back, so the tool used
for that particular wiring is probably not appropriate for what you
want to use it for. utilities do not use small gauge wire in any case.

I didn't see your previous post, but if you are joining two dissimilar
metals, be sure to use a joint compound to prevent moisture from touching
the connection. If you were to join copper to aluminum with no means of
preventing moisture from bridging the joint, corrosion loss will occur over
time. This is the accelerated corrosion (loss) of the least noble metal
(anode) while protecting the more noble (cathode) metal. Copper, in this
example, is the more noble metal.

The aluminum will pit to the copper leaving less surface area for contact.
The connection could be become loose, noisy, and even allow arcing. These
corrosion problems can be prevented by using a joint compound, covering and
prevent the bridging of moisture between the metals. The most popular
compounds use either zinc oxide or copper particles embedded in silicone
grease. As the joint pressure is increased, the embedded particles dig into
the metals and form a virgin low resistance junction void of air and its
moisture. My electricians use nolox, but I'm sure there are other brands
out there that work just as well.

just my .02
S.


"Harry Muscle" wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks to everyone who's responded to my last question about aluminum
wiring. I thought I'd investigate the option of using a hydrolic
pressing or crimping tool to add copper pigtails onto the aluminum
wires. Apparently that's how aluminum wire connections are made by the
utility companies.

I know there's a tool available and certified for residental wiring,
called COPALUM, unfortunately the company who offers this tool has very
strict rules and regulations, etc. regarding who can use it, etc. ...
making it quite expensive to actually use, not to mention that no one
in Canada is actually certified at the moment to use this tool.

However, electrical utilities obvioulsy have tools that they use also
for such things. Hence I'm wondering if anyone could help me dig up
some information on other powered crimping tools that can be used to
attach copper to aluminum wire.

Thanks,
Harry

john weaver had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...ool-21503-.htm
:
Harry
Email me at if you have any questions on
Copalum or termination methodology

All, you should all know that in this business, you do get what you pay
for. Cheap connectors are cheap connectors. Been in this industry for
long enough to see the tricks people play.

Thanks
John

daestrom wrote:

"Harry Muscle" wrote in
message
ups.com...
Apparently the COPALUM tool I mentioned in the original post does
in
fact create a cold weld to the aluminum and copper. Which means
the
equivalent tool I'm trying to find would also have to be able to
create
enough pressure to do the same ... am I correct in assuming that
that
rules out hand operated crimping tools and only leaves powered
ones?


Small lugs and connector pin crimping tools, such as those by AMP and
Amphenol for signal cables (e.g. 18 AWG and smaller) also create
'coldweld'
crimps, using just hand tools. But for anything larger such as 12AWG
and
larger, I think you'd pretty much have to use something with a lot of
mechanical advantage such as hydraulic.

daestrom





-------------------------------------
John Weaver
Sr. Product Engineer
Tyco Electronics



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replying to SQLit, fish on wrote:
Anytime there is s solution to the problem everyone wants to find a way to
circumvent the fix.Aluminum wiring is a problem,cheap homeowners and handymen
and Mr.Fix it ate bigger problems when it comes to aluminum wiring.There's a
reason why you need to be a licensed electrician and certified in this
process.Aluminum wiring because of it's characteristics needs to be handled
gingerly with proper syrippers so as not to nick wire which is an altogether
different problem than joining 2 dissimilar materials.Anyway would you use a
janitor to to perform surgery or terminate high voltage cables .don't think
so.I am an electrician certified with Tyco Amp for copalum remediation.I have
seen so many botched jobs from homeowners and uneducated electricians when it
comes to aluminum remediation using purple twisters and alumicon connectors
because of nicked wiresand trying to jam more wires than the allowed by these
2 methods.Wires are burnt and then cut shorter because of previous fix
attempt. Get it done right once and hire a qualified electrician.What price do
you put on safety?

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ool-21140-.htm