Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said
the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be replaced. Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup would not pay us back in time. A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is still ok. Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission? TIA, Chris |
#2
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On 5/30/2011 9:53 PM, WandererFan wrote:
Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be replaced. Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup would not pay us back in time. A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is still ok. Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission? Wouldn't a home inspection by a new home purchaser reveal the problem with the unit? I am very adamant about not selling a home with a ticking time bomb. Then again, with full disclosure of the problem to the buyer, caveat emptor. All I'm saying is that if you don't replace it now, a savvy purchaser would require you to replace it at sales time. Maybe that's a better time for you, but then you don't get to enjoy the comfort of the new unit for the next year. |
#3
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On Mon, 30 May 2011 21:59:40 -0400, mcp6453 wrote:
On 5/30/2011 9:53 PM, WandererFan wrote: Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be replaced. Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup would not pay us back in time. A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is still ok. Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission? Wouldn't a home inspection by a new home purchaser reveal the problem with the unit? I am very adamant about not selling a home with a ticking time bomb. Then again, with full disclosure of the problem to the buyer, caveat emptor. All I'm saying is that if you don't replace it now, a savvy purchaser would require you to replace it at sales time. Maybe that's a better time for you, but then you don't get to enjoy the comfort of the new unit for the next year. If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus. |
#4
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:53:19 -0700 (PDT), WandererFan
wrote: Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be replaced. Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup would not pay us back in time. A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is still ok. Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission? TIA, Chris He cannot "just" top up the R22 - but if he draws it down and leak tests it, "finds" a leak and repairs it, he can still refill the system - using your reclaimed R22 and whatever is required to top it up. At least that was the law last year in Ontario. |
#5
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
"WandererFan" wrote in message ... Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be replaced. Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup would not pay us back in time. A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is still ok. Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission? TIA, Chris I'm not up on the latest regulations so I won't comment. But there may be other considerations worth thinking about. True, you won't get a payback on a new, more efficient unit, but the sale next year may go a lot easier if you can show how this nice new unit is expected to be trouble free for the new buyer. Meantime, what is the real condition of the old unit? Will you get the summer out of it? I'd hate to be pressed to do something mid-August when it is 110 degrees and this thing craps out. That is a great unknown so it comes down to what will you pay for peace of mind? Or are you a risk taker? If I was buying a house and it came down to making a choice between to likeable houses, the one with a new AC and furnace would get the nod, or I'd lowball the price to the other guy. |
#6
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On 5/30/2011 8:53 PM, WandererFan wrote:
Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be replaced. Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup would not pay us back in time. A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is still ok. Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission? TIA, Chris Get a new HVAC man. preferably a professional one this time. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#7
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
wrote If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus. That is true, but. . . . . . How does it really affect the selling price? Let's say the new unit is $6000. What is the difference in selling price of the house with the old unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? Can you get your money back? Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect, not have to lift a finger. I've watched a couple of TV shows where people rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. For $15 and an hour labor, you get the color of your choice. Personally, I'd low ball the bid by $10,000 and choose the brand and installer of my choice but some non-mechanical types just want to set the thermostat and be cool. That 20 year old unit can die tomorrow, but it may go another 20 years too. Bit of a crap shoot. Any realtors here have a comment? |
#8
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On May 30, 9:53*pm, WandererFan wrote:
Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. *He said the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). * He said if the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be replaced. Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. *A new, more efficient setup would not pay us back in time. A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is still ok. Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission? TIA, Chris That's crap. He's just trying to sell you a new unit. What changed is that as of 2010 manufacturers are no longer allowed to make new equipment that uses r22. R22 can still be use dto service exitsing equipment. R22 is being phased out. As of 2020 r22 it's self will not be manufactured, only reclaimed/recycled r22 can be used. R22 will get real expensive then. It's possible someone will come up with a substitute that can be used in r22 systems between now and then but no one has so far. The newer refridgerants run at a significantly higher pressure and can't be used in an r22 system. |
#9
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On May 31, 8:11*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On May 30, 9:53*pm, WandererFan wrote: Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. *He said the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). * He said if the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be replaced. Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. *A new, more efficient setup would not pay us back in time. A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is still ok. Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission? TIA, Chris That's crap. He's just trying to sell you a new unit. *What changed is that as of 2010 manufacturers are no longer allowed to make new equipment that uses r22. *R22 can still be use dto service exitsing equipment. *R22 is being phased out. *As of 2020 r22 it's self will not be manufactured, only reclaimed/recycled r22 can be used. *R22 will get real expensive then. *It's possible someone will come up with a substitute that can be used in r22 systems between now and then but no one has so far. *The newer refridgerants run at a significantly higher pressure and can't be used in an r22 system.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Agree with the above. You need an honest tech. The system should be checked for leaks. If it's a leak that can be easily and inexpensively fixed, then you could do that and then re-charge the system. If it's a leak in the coils, etc. then it's time for a new system. Even if you're selling your home, you might get most or all of the money back. A home inspector is going to flag a 20 year old AC as being near it's end of life. Doesn't mean you have any obligation to replace it, but it will make the buyers more nervous and they may use some other issue to hardball or scuttle the deal. And if you have a new system, you can feature that you have a brand new high efficiency HVAC system as a selling point. A lot of people just want a house with no issues. Also look into the various rebates that are available from utilities, state gov, etc. Last year the FEDS had a 30% tax credit on the purchase of a new system that met certain efficiency standards. |
#10
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On 5/31/2011 7:11 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On May 30, 9:53 pm, wrote: Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be replaced. Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup would not pay us back in time. A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is still ok. Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission? TIA, Chris That's crap. He's just trying to sell you a new unit. What changed is that as of 2010 manufacturers are no longer allowed to make new equipment that uses r22. R22 can still be use dto service exitsing equipment. R22 is being phased out. As of 2020 r22 it's self will not be manufactured, only reclaimed/recycled r22 can be used. R22 will get real expensive then. It's possible someone will come up with a substitute that can be used in r22 systems between now and then but no one has so far. The newer refridgerants run at a significantly higher pressure and can't be used in an r22 system. ERRRRRRRR! Wrong, manufacturers no longer ship systems containing R-22. We purchase and install new R-22 equipment referred to as "dry" systems. The equipment has no refrigerant in it. At the start of Spring, I installed a new condensing unit designed for R-22 for a customer who didn't need everything replaced. The condensing unit came from the factory charged with nitrogen. The new equipment we obtain from the supply house has the new refrigerant R-410A and enough is in the new condensing unit for a matching evaporator and a 15-20foot line set. My suppliers have a hard time keeping "new" dry R-22 equipment in stock because of demand. :-) TDD |
#11
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On May 31, 9:07*am, "
wrote: On May 31, 8:11*am, jamesgangnc wrote: On May 30, 9:53*pm, WandererFan wrote: Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. *He said the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). * He said if the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be replaced. Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. *A new, more efficient setup would not pay us back in time. A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is still ok. Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission? TIA, Chris That's crap. He's just trying to sell you a new unit. *What changed is that as of 2010 manufacturers are no longer allowed to make new equipment that uses r22. *R22 can still be use dto service exitsing equipment. *R22 is being phased out. *As of 2020 r22 it's self will not be manufactured, only reclaimed/recycled r22 can be used. *R22 will get real expensive then. *It's possible someone will come up with a substitute that can be used in r22 systems between now and then but no one has so far. *The newer refridgerants run at a significantly higher pressure and can't be used in an r22 system.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Agree with the above. *You need an honest tech. * The system should be checked for leaks. *If it's a leak that can be easily and inexpensively fixed, then you could do that and then re-charge the system. * If it's a leak in the coils, etc. then it's time for a new system. Even if you're selling your home, you might get most or all of the money back. * A home inspector is going to flag a 20 year old AC as being near it's end of life. * Doesn't mean you have any obligation to replace it, but it will make the buyers more nervous and they may use some other issue to hardball or scuttle the deal. *And if you have a new system, you can feature that you have a brand new high efficiency HVAC system as a selling point. *A lot of people just want a house with no issues. *Also look into the various rebates that are available from utilities, state gov, etc. * Last year the FEDS had a 30% tax credit on the purchase of a new system that met certain efficiency standards.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Having sold a home not long ago 90% of buyers want one in pristine shape, so they dont have to do anything but move in. So the old AC means 90% of buyers wouldnt even consider it. That will make your home harder to sell and right now you can pick who installs your new unit. Once the buyer gets a home inspector involved We demand a TRANE or any highest priced unit installed with the best 20 year warranty and all the bells and whistles, like variable speed AC in canada and a R30 AC efficency. Its costly but we dont care were the buyer Before buyers get involved you can select exactly what you want, and just say AC is new last year. |
#12
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
Call a different company. Last I checked, it's legal to top
off a system less than 50 pounds charge. Central air for homes typicaly 5 or 6 pounds. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "WandererFan" wrote in message ... Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be replaced. Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup would not pay us back in time. A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is still ok. Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission? TIA, Chris |
#13
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
Neat, I'd not heard about dry systems. Good thing I have a
pound or two of gas, left. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ... ERRRRRRRR! Wrong, manufacturers no longer ship systems containing R-22. We purchase and install new R-22 equipment referred to as "dry" systems. The equipment has no refrigerant in it. At the start of Spring, I installed a new condensing unit designed for R-22 for a customer who didn't need everything replaced. The condensing unit came from the factory charged with nitrogen. The new equipment we obtain from the supply house has the new refrigerant R-410A and enough is in the new condensing unit for a matching evaporator and a 15-20foot line set. My suppliers have a hard time keeping "new" dry R-22 equipment in stock because of demand. :-) TDD |
#14
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On 5/31/2011 5:52 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
wrote If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus. That is true, but. . . . . . How does it really affect the selling price? Let's say the new unit is $6000. What is the difference in selling price of the house with the old unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? Can you get your money back? Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect, not have to lift a finger. I've watched a couple of TV shows where people rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. For $15 and an hour labor, you get the color of your choice. Personally, I'd low ball the bid by $10,000 and choose the brand and installer of my choice but some non-mechanical types just want to set the thermostat and be cool. That 20 year old unit can die tomorrow, but it may go another 20 years too. Bit of a crap shoot. Any realtors here have a comment? Yeah, I sold my house in the Chicago suburbs 3 years ago. The buyers put on a nicey nicey attitude. They finally signed the contract and started demanding. I thought a contract was binding, but apparently in the bad housing market they can demand anything they want. They, through their lawyer, said the furnace was "beyond useful life" so they wanted us to give them a new one. That probably meant new AC as it was older than the furnace (furnace=18yo, AC compressor=1978, A coil=5yo). The system worked quiet well. The AC unit was the highest efficiency unit in 1978. By today's standards, 8.5 is just average. So, I refused, but eventually gave a little. The furnace's secondary heat exchanger still was under the original 25 year warranty, so I offered to buy them 1 additional year home buyer's policy. When they demanded the carpets be completely cleaned (they were installed brand new for the house selling), I dug in and said NO, ENOUGH!. The buyers kept complaining. I kept saying NO. Finally, my real estate agent and my lawyer split the cost just to get it closed .... believe it or not. And, even at the closing (I was on the road to my new location/state) they caused more problems, but finally signed. So, anything is apparently negotiable. My advice, spend as little as possible, as a seller .... but dig in. BTW, the buyer's lawyer said his client was "nuts", but we all knew that. |
#15
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
Since they can change the terms by demanding stuff after the
close, you can change the terms by increasing the sale price. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Art Todesco" wrote in message ... Yeah, I sold my house in the Chicago suburbs 3 years ago. The buyers put on a nicey nicey attitude. They finally signed the contract and started demanding. I thought a contract was binding, but apparently in the bad housing market they can demand anything they want. They, through their lawyer, said the furnace was "beyond useful life" so they wanted us to give them a new one. That probably meant new AC as it was older than the furnace (furnace=18yo, AC compressor=1978, A coil=5yo). The system worked quiet well. The AC unit was the highest efficiency unit in 1978. By today's standards, 8.5 is just average. So, I refused, but eventually gave a little. The furnace's secondary heat exchanger still was under the original 25 year warranty, so I offered to buy them 1 additional year home buyer's policy. When they demanded the carpets be completely cleaned (they were installed brand new for the house selling), I dug in and said NO, ENOUGH!. The buyers kept complaining. I kept saying NO. Finally, my real estate agent and my lawyer split the cost just to get it closed .... believe it or not. And, even at the closing (I was on the road to my new location/state) they caused more problems, but finally signed. So, anything is apparently negotiable. My advice, spend as little as possible, as a seller .... but dig in. BTW, the buyer's lawyer said his client was "nuts", but we all knew that. |
#16
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On May 30, 10:19*pm, wrote:
le snip *He cannot "just" top up the R22 - but if he draws it down and leak tests it, "finds" a leak and repairs it, he can still refill the system - using your reclaimed R22 and whatever is required to top it up. At least that was the law last year in Ontario. This is in fact, Ontario, so I guess the tech wasn't really fibbing. Disappointing to hear the "dissing" of the tech in the replies, though. We've used this local firm for a number of years for furnace and a/c, although they weren't the original installer (gas company promo). Aww well, guess it's like tools, good old names don't necessarily mean good new tools. Understand the issue about buyers wanting pristine move in condition. Will take it into account of course. Plan was to have the plant "serviced" just before listing so we could say everything works with a clear conscience. Personally, I'd rather buy the house a bit lower and choose my own equipment. If I buy for the next guy, it's going to be the cheapest package available, not the best. C. |
#17
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On Tue, 31 May 2011 11:07:15 -0400, Art Todesco
wrote: On 5/31/2011 5:52 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: wrote If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus. That is true, but. . . . . . How does it really affect the selling price? Let's say the new unit is $6000. What is the difference in selling price of the house with the old unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? Can you get your money back? Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect, not have to lift a finger. I've watched a couple of TV shows where people rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. For $15 and an hour labor, you get the color of your choice. Personally, I'd low ball the bid by $10,000 and choose the brand and installer of my choice but some non-mechanical types just want to set the thermostat and be cool. That 20 year old unit can die tomorrow, but it may go another 20 years too. Bit of a crap shoot. Any realtors here have a comment? Yeah, I sold my house in the Chicago suburbs 3 years ago. The buyers put on a nicey nicey attitude. They finally signed the contract and started demanding. I thought a contract was binding, but apparently in the bad housing market they can demand anything they want. They, through their lawyer, said the furnace was "beyond useful life" so they wanted us to give them a new one. That probably meant new AC as it was older than the furnace (furnace=18yo, AC compressor=1978, A coil=5yo). The system worked quiet well. The AC unit was the highest efficiency unit in 1978. By today's standards, 8.5 is just average. So, I refused, but eventually gave a little. The furnace's secondary heat exchanger still was under the original 25 year warranty, so I offered to buy them 1 additional year home buyer's policy. When they demanded the carpets be completely cleaned (they were installed brand new for the house selling), I dug in and said NO, ENOUGH!. The buyers kept complaining. I kept saying NO. Finally, my real estate agent and my lawyer split the cost just to get it closed .... believe it or not. And, even at the closing (I was on the road to my new location/state) they caused more problems, but finally signed. So, anything is apparently negotiable. My advice, spend as little as possible, as a seller .... but dig in. BTW, the buyer's lawyer said his client was "nuts", but we all knew that. Once he makes a legal offer on a home, the buyer has tipped his hand that he wants the house. Everything after that is common haggling. Some buyers haggle hard, some don't. You did fine holding firm. Condos may work differently, but homes have a "personality" beyond condition. Not just location, but room layout, yard layout, view from windows, garage, etc. If the home doesn't need expensive repairs and the personality matches the buyer's, that's it. I know realtors say different. To them every damn house fits their client. I've bought 2 houses and never paid attention to the realtor except getting me to houses I might want, paperwork and advice on a counter offer. First one was priced fair and my wife loved it. I really liked it. Cat hair all over, cat smell, clutter, needing rooms painted - didn't matter. Other lookers were coming in as we went out and I asked the realtor if we paid asking price was it ours, and she said "yes." That's what I did. Second house had non-working window units for A/C, a 60 amp service, and a 1959 kitchen. Wife loved it, I really liked it. I was willing to pay asking, but my realtor saved me $8500 on the offering part. I had a 200 amp service and new furnace/central air put in a year later. The OP should note to buyers the A/C is marginal, or just get it fixed or replaced so it's not an issue. But there's no way of knowing if it will affect selling price of the home. That will depend entirely on the market. If I was a buyer, I would haggle on that one, since it's a main mechanical system. If I was the owner, I'd get it replaced due to age/functionality, even if I was planning on selling the house. --Vic |
#18
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On May 31, 10:29*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: Neat, I'd not heard about dry systems. Good thing I have a pound or two of gas, left. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus *www.lds.org . "The Daring Dufas" wrote in ... ERRRRRRRR! Wrong, manufacturers no longer ship systems containing R-22. We purchase and install new R-22 equipment referred to as "dry" systems. The equipment has no refrigerant in it. At the start of Spring, I installed a new condensing unit designed for R-22 for a customer who didn't need everything replaced. The condensing unit came from the factory charged with nitrogen. The new equipment we obtain from the supply house has the new refrigerant R-410A and enough is in the new condensing unit for a matching evaporator and a 15-20foot line set. My suppliers have a hard time keeping "new" dry R-22 equipment in stock because of demand. :-) TDD ok, my bad. Sort of a symantics thing. There are not supposed ot be any new complete r22 systems sold. Yes, you can buy every part of a system. |
#19
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On 5/31/2011 2:45 PM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On May 31, 10:29 am, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: Neat, I'd not heard about dry systems. Good thing I have a pound or two of gas, left. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . "The Daring wrote in ... ERRRRRRRR! Wrong, manufacturers no longer ship systems containing R-22. We purchase and install new R-22 equipment referred to as "dry" systems. The equipment has no refrigerant in it. At the start of Spring, I installed a new condensing unit designed for R-22 for a customer who didn't need everything replaced. The condensing unit came from the factory charged with nitrogen. The new equipment we obtain from the supply house has the new refrigerant R-410A and enough is in the new condensing unit for a matching evaporator and a 15-20foot line set. My suppliers have a hard time keeping "new" dry R-22 equipment in stock because of demand. :-) TDD ok, my bad. Sort of a symantics thing. There are not supposed ot be any new complete r22 systems sold. Yes, you can buy every part of a system. You can buy a complete R-22 system, it just won't have any R-22 in it. :-) TDD |
#20
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... wrote If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus. That is true, but. . . . . . How does it really affect the selling price? Let's say the new unit is $6000. What is the difference in selling price of the house with the old unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? Can you get your money back? Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect, not have to lift a finger. I've watched a couple of TV shows where people rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. For $15 and an hour labor, you get the color of your choice. Personally, I'd low ball the bid by $10,000 and choose the brand and installer of my choice but some non-mechanical types just want to set the thermostat and be cool. That 20 year old unit can die tomorrow, but it may go another 20 years too. Bit of a crap shoot. Any realtors here have a comment? Nothing personal Ed but here is how I deal with buyers like you. No but a multiple property owner does and here is how it goes: Take your damn silly games someplace else. I don't owe a penny on this house and do not have to sell it. I would like to sell it to someone who can appreciate the value that I am offering for the money. Put your final offer in writing with all financing and other contingencies defined. I will review your offer and get back to you. Colbyt |
#21
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
"WandererFan" wrote in message ... Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be replaced. Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup would not pay us back in time. A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is still ok. Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission? TIA, Chris Chris, It is BS. 22 is widely available and will be for some time to come. Call another reputable company. Colbyt |
#22
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On Tue, 31 May 2011 05:52:09 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote: wrote If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus. That is true, but. . . . . . How does it really affect the selling price? Let's say the new unit is $6000. What is the difference in selling price of the house with the old unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? Can you get your money back? Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect, not have to lift a finger. I've watched a couple of TV shows where people rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. For $15 and an hour labor, you get the color of your choice. Anyone with any brains would never pay the cost of a newish airconditioner more for a house just because it has a new ish air conditioner. Putting a new one in under their name gets THEM the warranty. If selling the house I'd get an estimate for a replacement and tell the buyer they can have that off the normal selling price or you'll put it in for them (pay to have it done). I've seen too many cases where a new AC unit is installed, and the new buyer decides they want a different super high efficiency, quiet, or what-ever furnace - and the brand new A/C gets pitched along with the old furnace as the buyer gets a "package deal" on the new system. Personally, I'd low ball the bid by $10,000 and choose the brand and installer of my choice but some non-mechanical types just want to set the thermostat and be cool. That 20 year old unit can die tomorrow, but it may go another 20 years too. Bit of a crap shoot. Mine is 30 years old and still going. Replacing it is less than $4000. I replaced the furnace several years ago and left the old AC - after talking to the contractor he agreed "they will only go DOWN in price" and the savings between the old and the new for the few days we actually run it, would take twice the lifetime of the unit to pay for itself. Any realtors here have a comment? |
#23
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On Tue, 31 May 2011 09:17:42 -0700 (PDT), WandererFan
wrote: On May 30, 10:19Â*pm, wrote: le snip Â*He cannot "just" top up the R22 - but if he draws it down and leak tests it, "finds" a leak and repairs it, he can still refill the system - using your reclaimed R22 and whatever is required to top it up. At least that was the law last year in Ontario. This is in fact, Ontario, so I guess the tech wasn't really fibbing. Disappointing to hear the "dissing" of the tech in the replies, though. We've used this local firm for a number of years for furnace and a/c, although they weren't the original installer (gas company promo). Aww well, guess it's like tools, good old names don't necessarily mean good new tools. Understand the issue about buyers wanting pristine move in condition. Will take it into account of course. Plan was to have the plant "serviced" just before listing so we could say everything works with a clear conscience. Personally, I'd rather buy the house a bit lower and choose my own equipment. If I buy for the next guy, it's going to be the cheapest package available, not the best. C. And Canadian buyers, on the whole, have come to expect that. If the unit is 5 years old, the seller likely bought the best he could afford. If it's less than a year old, he likely bought the cheapest he could get. |
#24
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On May 31, 3:24*pm, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2011 11:07:15 -0400, Art Todesco wrote: Yeah, I sold my house in the Chicago suburbs 3 years ago. *The buyers put on a nicey nicey attitude. *They finally signed the contract and started demanding ???? I've had buyers submit *offers* on homes, which they sign and present to my agent. And the offer, counter-offer begins. But never by use of a contract. Your laws might be different. I think what he's talking about is that the typical sales contract has an inspection contigency clause. The sellers used that, eg the furnace is past it's life expectancy, to then further negotiate after the contract was signed. |
#25
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On May 31, 8:59*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2011 05:52:09 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote: wrote If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus. That is true, but. . . . . . How does it really affect the selling price? *Let's say the new unit is $6000. *What is the difference in selling price of the house with the old unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? *Can you get your money back? Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect, not have to lift a finger. *I've watched a couple of TV shows where people rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. *For $15 and an hour labor, you get the color of your choice. Anyone with any brains would never pay the cost of a newish airconditioner more for a house just because it has a new ish air conditioner. Putting a new one in under their name gets THEM the warranty. You have evidence that HVAC systems warranties are never transferable? Or even typically not transferable? |
#26
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On May 31, 6:43*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote: On 5/31/2011 2:45 PM, jamesgangnc wrote: On May 31, 10:29 am, "Stormin Mormon" *wrote: Neat, I'd not heard about dry systems. Good thing I have a pound or two of gas, left. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus *www.lds.org . "The Daring *wrote in ... ERRRRRRRR! Wrong, manufacturers no longer ship systems containing R-22. We purchase and install new R-22 equipment referred to as "dry" systems. The equipment has no refrigerant in it. At the start of Spring, I installed a new condensing unit designed for R-22 for a customer who didn't need everything replaced. The condensing unit came from the factory charged with nitrogen. The new equipment we obtain from the supply house has the new refrigerant R-410A and enough is in the new condensing unit for a matching evaporator and a 15-20foot line set. My suppliers have a hard time keeping "new" dry R-22 equipment in stock because of demand. :-) TDD ok, my bad. *Sort of a symantics thing. *There are not supposed ot be any new complete r22 systems sold. *Yes, you can buy every part of a system. You can buy a complete R-22 system, it just won't have any R-22 in it. :-) TDD- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - True enough. There is some debate about this now in the industry. The intent of the law was to stop the sale and installtion of new r22 systems after 2010. The actual wording of the law prevents the sale of pre-charged r22 equipment after 2010. Thus creating the loophole for the sale of empty r22 equipment. Some are mad at the manufacturers for continuing to make the r22 equipment since a lot of them have been telling customers that after 2010 you won't be able to buy r22 equipment. The downturn in the economy has contributed a bit as well with more people looking for ways to get by as cheaply as possible. The situation has lead to some techs offering to replace r22 systems with new r22 systems for less than the cost of a new r410a system. I can't complain about it myself since I picked up a new r22 system just last month. My house has two systems. One is a 3 year old r22 system and the other is a 19 year old r22 system. I picked up a matching r22 system, dry of course, so that I could replace the 19 year old one with one that matches the 3 year old one. Having 2 the same makes troubleshooting a breeze. I'm not real worried about the availability of r22 for the next 5 or 6 years. After that I'll just keep a can for myself. |
#27
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On 6/1/2011 8:05 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On May 31, 6:43 pm, The Daring wrote: On 5/31/2011 2:45 PM, jamesgangnc wrote: On May 31, 10:29 am, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: Neat, I'd not heard about dry systems. Good thing I have a pound or two of gas, left. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . "The Daring wrote in ... ERRRRRRRR! Wrong, manufacturers no longer ship systems containing R-22. We purchase and install new R-22 equipment referred to as "dry" systems. The equipment has no refrigerant in it. At the start of Spring, I installed a new condensing unit designed for R-22 for a customer who didn't need everything replaced. The condensing unit came from the factory charged with nitrogen. The new equipment we obtain from the supply house has the new refrigerant R-410A and enough is in the new condensing unit for a matching evaporator and a 15-20foot line set. My suppliers have a hard time keeping "new" dry R-22 equipment in stock because of demand. :-) TDD ok, my bad. Sort of a symantics thing. There are not supposed ot be any new complete r22 systems sold. Yes, you can buy every part of a system. You can buy a complete R-22 system, it just won't have any R-22 in it. :-) TDD- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - True enough. There is some debate about this now in the industry. The intent of the law was to stop the sale and installtion of new r22 systems after 2010. The actual wording of the law prevents the sale of pre-charged r22 equipment after 2010. Thus creating the loophole for the sale of empty r22 equipment. Some are mad at the manufacturers for continuing to make the r22 equipment since a lot of them have been telling customers that after 2010 you won't be able to buy r22 equipment. The downturn in the economy has contributed a bit as well with more people looking for ways to get by as cheaply as possible. The situation has lead to some techs offering to replace r22 systems with new r22 systems for less than the cost of a new r410a system. I can't complain about it myself since I picked up a new r22 system just last month. My house has two systems. One is a 3 year old r22 system and the other is a 19 year old r22 system. I picked up a matching r22 system, dry of course, so that I could replace the 19 year old one with one that matches the 3 year old one. Having 2 the same makes troubleshooting a breeze. I'm not real worried about the availability of r22 for the next 5 or 6 years. After that I'll just keep a can for myself. Me and my buddy GB are repairing more than we replace but we do install new R-410A systems when a whole system needs replacing. The problem is a great many HVAC companies have and have had a policy of replace instead of repair. Me and my friend are just the opposite, we will repair if possible and only replace if necessary. It's actually easier to replace a condensing unit than it is to replace its compressor but I do it all the time and am quite good at it. The caveat is the warranty on a new compressor is one year and the warranty on a new condensing unit is 5 years but you have to tell the customer the truth and give them a choice. If I see that the condenser coil is in good shape and the fan and other electrical parts are good, I recommend replacing the compressor but if the coil is beat up and the fan motor is soon to die, I tell the customer a condensing unit is a better deal especially if it's a beat up heat pump with all the extra components that can die. TDD |
#28
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:26:35 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On May 31, 8:59Â*pm, wrote: On Tue, 31 May 2011 05:52:09 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote: wrote If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus. That is true, but. . . . . . How does it really affect the selling price? Â*Let's say the new unit is $6000. Â*What is the difference in selling price of the house with the old unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? Â*Can you get your money back? Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect, not have to lift a finger. Â*I've watched a couple of TV shows where people rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. Â*For $15 and an hour labor, you get the color of your choice. Anyone with any brains would never pay the cost of a newish airconditioner more for a house just because it has a new ish air conditioner. Putting a new one in under their name gets THEM the warranty. You have evidence that HVAC systems warranties are never transferable? Or even typically not transferable? Generally transfwerring ANY warranty is a hassle.. Not saying it's impossible - but it is seldom done without issues - and many warrantees are either to the original owner, or transferrable for a fee |
#29
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
|
#30
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
wrote in message ... On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:26:35 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On May 31, 8:59 pm, wrote: On Tue, 31 May 2011 05:52:09 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote: wrote If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus. That is true, but. . . . . . How does it really affect the selling price? Let's say the new unit is $6000. What is the difference in selling price of the house with the old unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? Can you get your money back? Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect, not have to lift a finger. I've watched a couple of TV shows where people rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. For $15 and an hour labor, you get the color of your choice. Anyone with any brains would never pay the cost of a newish airconditioner more for a house just because it has a new ish air conditioner. Putting a new one in under their name gets THEM the warranty. You have evidence that HVAC systems warranties are never transferable? Or even typically not transferable? Generally transfwerring ANY warranty is a hassle.. Not saying it's impossible - but it is seldom done without issues - and many warrantees are either to the original owner, or transferrable for a fee With Trane, no registration I required so no hassle with a transfer. |
#31
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On Jun 2, 5:48*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
wrote in message ... On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:26:35 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On May 31, 8:59 pm, wrote: On Tue, 31 May 2011 05:52:09 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote: wrote If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus. That is true, but. . . . . . How does it really affect the selling price? *Let's say the new unit is $6000. *What is the difference in selling price of the house with the old unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? *Can you get your money back? Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect, not have to lift a finger. *I've watched a couple of TV shows where people rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. *For $15 and an hour labor, you get the color of your choice. Anyone with any brains would never pay the cost of a newish airconditioner more for a house just because it has a new ish air conditioner. Putting a new one in under their name gets THEM the warranty. You have evidence that HVAC systems warranties are never transferable? * Or even typically not transferable? Generally transfwerring ANY warranty is a hassle.. Not saying it's impossible - but it is seldom done without issues - and many warrantees are either to the original owner, or transferrable for a fee With Trane, no registration I required so no hassle with a transfer.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I agree, I think most of them base it off the serial numbers. Sometimes registration will buy you some additional warranty. If equipment sits around for a while the the warranty is supposed to start with equipment start up. |
#32
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
WandererFan wrote the following:
Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be replaced. Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup would not pay us back in time. A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is still ok. Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission? TIA, Chris I'm not responding to your question, just giving some advice. When you are posting a question, especially in this home repair group, it would be wise to indicate where you are located, so that you don't get responses that don't apply where you are. You'll note that some of the responses do not not apply to your situation and have disparaged the tech, although he was correct for your location. -- Bill In Hamptonburgh, NY In the original Orange County. Est. 1683 To email, remove the double zeroes after @ |
#33
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On May 30, 9:53*pm, WandererFan wrote:
Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission? If the refrigerant's low, it's LEAKING. A licensed pro can't legally top off a refrigeration system with a known leak. If the EPA gets wind of it he'd face fines and would probably lose his license. Odds are a leak would require the replacement of one or more major components. Once you start replacing major components on a unit that old, you are better off in the long run to simply replace it. You will be chasing problem after problem if you try to fix it. |
#34
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
When I got my card, it was legal to top off systems
containing less than 50 pounds of refrigerant. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. wrote in message ... A licensed pro can't legally top off a refrigeration system with a known leak. If the EPA gets wind of it he'd face fines and would probably lose his license. |
#35
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
|
#36
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
wrote in message ... On May 30, 9:53 pm, WandererFan wrote: Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission? If the refrigerant's low, it's LEAKING. A licensed pro can't legally top off a refrigeration system with a known leak. If the EPA gets wind of it he'd face fines and would probably lose his license. They do call HVAC service guys to come out to a house to see if they will do things like that. OTOH, you can always take a couple of wrenches to a fitting, snug it up and swear it was leaking. |
#37
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Central Air "Top Up" Not Allowed?
On May 31, 12:17*pm, WandererFan wrote:
On May 30, 10:19*pm, wrote: Disappointing to hear the "dissing" of the tech in the replies, though. *We've used this local firm for a number of years for furnace and a/c, although they weren't the original installer (gas company promo). * Aww well, guess it's like tools, good old names don't necessarily mean good new tools. I don't believe there is such a thing as a "borderline" charge nor do I think a charge can be "topped off." It is either properly charged or not. If it is not, then either it was never charged correctly (majority) or it has a leak. Systems do not use up refrigerant, they are sealed. If it is not charged correctly, it is perfectly legal to adjust the charge. If he knows how. If it has a leak, it is not legal to add charge without repairing the leak. At least, when I took the the refrigerant class for the license that was the case; that's been a while. So if he's saying there's a leak and he's not willing to top it off then he's not only legal but professional. If there's not a leak, I |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
"commercial" posts allowed? | Metalworking | |||
"Dehumidify" and "night" modes for central air? | Home Repair |