Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said
the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top
up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if
the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be
replaced.

Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm
not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup
would not pay us back in time.

A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be
around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is
still ok.

Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

TIA,
Chris

On 5/30/2011 9:53 PM, WandererFan wrote:
Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said
the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top
up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if
the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be
replaced.

Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm
not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup
would not pay us back in time.

A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be
around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is
still ok.

Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

Wouldn't a home inspection by a new home purchaser reveal the problem
with the unit? I am very adamant about not selling a home with a ticking
time bomb. Then again, with full disclosure of the problem to the buyer,
caveat emptor.

All I'm saying is that if you don't replace it now, a savvy purchaser
would require you to replace it at sales time. Maybe that's a better
time for you, but then you don't get to enjoy the comfort of the new
unit for the next year.

On Mon, 30 May 2011 21:59:40 -0400, mcp6453 wrote:

On 5/30/2011 9:53 PM, WandererFan wrote:
Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said
the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top
up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if
the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be
replaced.

Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm
not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup
would not pay us back in time.

A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be
around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is
still ok.

Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

Wouldn't a home inspection by a new home purchaser reveal the problem
with the unit? I am very adamant about not selling a home with a ticking
time bomb. Then again, with full disclosure of the problem to the buyer,
caveat emptor.

All I'm saying is that if you don't replace it now, a savvy purchaser
would require you to replace it at sales time. Maybe that's a better
time for you, but then you don't get to enjoy the comfort of the new
unit for the next year.
If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as
you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the
time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it
would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus.

On Mon, 30 May 2011 18:53:19 -0700 (PDT), WandererFan
wrote:

Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said
the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top
up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if
the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be
replaced.

Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm
not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup
would not pay us back in time.

A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be
around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is
still ok.

Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

TIA,
Chris
He cannot "just" top up the R22 - but if he draws it down and leak
tests it, "finds" a leak and repairs it, he can still refill the
system - using your reclaimed R22 and whatever is required to top it
up.

At least that was the law last year in Ontario.

"WandererFan" wrote in message
...
Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said
the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top
up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if
the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be
replaced.

Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm
not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup
would not pay us back in time.

A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be
around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is
still ok.

Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

TIA,
Chris

I'm not up on the latest regulations so I won't comment. But there may be
other considerations worth thinking about.

True, you won't get a payback on a new, more efficient unit, but the sale
next year may go a lot easier if you can show how this nice new unit is
expected to be trouble free for the new buyer.

Meantime, what is the real condition of the old unit? Will you get the
summer out of it? I'd hate to be pressed to do something mid-August when it
is 110 degrees and this thing craps out. That is a great unknown so it
comes down to what will you pay for peace of mind? Or are you a risk taker?

If I was buying a house and it came down to making a choice between to
likeable houses, the one with a new AC and furnace would get the nod, or I'd
lowball the price to the other guy.

On 5/30/2011 8:53 PM, WandererFan wrote:
Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said
the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top
up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if
the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be
replaced.

Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm
not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup
would not pay us back in time.

A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be
around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is
still ok.

Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

TIA,
Chris

Get a new HVAC man. preferably a professional one this time.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

wrote
If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as
you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the
time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it
would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus.

That is true, but. . . . . .

How does it really affect the selling price? Let's say the new unit is
$6000. What is the difference in selling price of the house with the old
unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? Can you get your money back?
Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect, not
have to lift a finger. I've watched a couple of TV shows where people
rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. For $15 and an hour
labor, you get the color of your choice.

Personally, I'd low ball the bid by $10,000 and choose the brand and
installer of my choice but some non-mechanical types just want to set the
thermostat and be cool. That 20 year old unit can die tomorrow, but it may
go another 20 years too. Bit of a crap shoot.

Any realtors here have a comment?

On May 30, 9:53*pm, WandererFan wrote:
Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. *He said
the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top
up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). * He said if
the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be
replaced.

Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm
not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. *A new, more efficient setup
would not pay us back in time.

A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be
around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is
still ok.

Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

TIA,
Chris

That's crap. He's just trying to sell you a new unit. What changed is
that as of 2010 manufacturers are no longer allowed to make new
equipment that uses r22. R22 can still be use dto service exitsing
equipment. R22 is being phased out. As of 2020 r22 it's self will
not be manufactured, only reclaimed/recycled r22 can be used. R22
will get real expensive then. It's possible someone will come up with
a substitute that can be used in r22 systems between now and then but
no one has so far. The newer refridgerants run at a significantly
higher pressure and can't be used in an r22 system.

On May 31, 8:11*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On May 30, 9:53*pm, WandererFan wrote:





Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. *He said
the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top
up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). * He said if
the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be
replaced.

Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm
not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. *A new, more efficient setup
would not pay us back in time.

A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be
around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is
still ok.

Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

TIA,
Chris

That's crap. He's just trying to sell you a new unit. *What changed is
that as of 2010 manufacturers are no longer allowed to make new
equipment that uses r22. *R22 can still be use dto service exitsing
equipment. *R22 is being phased out. *As of 2020 r22 it's self will
not be manufactured, only reclaimed/recycled r22 can be used. *R22
will get real expensive then. *It's possible someone will come up with
a substitute that can be used in r22 systems between now and then but
no one has so far. *The newer refridgerants run at a significantly
higher pressure and can't be used in an r22 system.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Agree with the above. You need an honest tech. The system
should be checked for leaks. If it's a leak that can be easily
and inexpensively fixed, then you could do that and then
re-charge the system. If it's a leak in the coils, etc. then it's
time for a new system.

Even if you're selling your home, you might get most or all
of the money back. A home inspector is going to flag
a 20 year old AC as being near it's end of life. Doesn't
mean you have any obligation to replace it, but it will
make the buyers more nervous and they may use
some other issue to hardball or scuttle the deal. And
if you have a new system, you can feature that you
have a brand new high efficiency HVAC system as
a selling point. A lot of people just want a house with
no issues. Also look into the various rebates that
are available from utilities, state gov, etc. Last year
the FEDS had a 30% tax credit on the purchase of
a new system that met certain efficiency standards.

On 5/31/2011 7:11 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On May 30, 9:53 pm, wrote:
Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said
the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top
up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if
the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be
replaced.

Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm
not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup
would not pay us back in time.

A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be
around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is
still ok.

Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

TIA,
Chris

That's crap. He's just trying to sell you a new unit. What changed is
that as of 2010 manufacturers are no longer allowed to make new
equipment that uses r22. R22 can still be use dto service exitsing
equipment. R22 is being phased out. As of 2020 r22 it's self will
not be manufactured, only reclaimed/recycled r22 can be used. R22
will get real expensive then. It's possible someone will come up with
a substitute that can be used in r22 systems between now and then but
no one has so far. The newer refridgerants run at a significantly
higher pressure and can't be used in an r22 system.

ERRRRRRRR! Wrong, manufacturers no longer ship systems containing R-22.
We purchase and install new R-22 equipment referred to as "dry" systems.
The equipment has no refrigerant in it. At the start of Spring, I
installed a new condensing unit designed for R-22 for a customer who
didn't need everything replaced. The condensing unit came
from the factory charged with nitrogen. The new equipment we obtain from
the supply house has the new refrigerant R-410A and enough is in
the new condensing unit for a matching evaporator and a 15-20foot line
set. My suppliers have a hard time keeping "new" dry R-22 equipment in
stock because of demand. :-)

TDD

On May 31, 9:07*am, "
wrote:
On May 31, 8:11*am, jamesgangnc wrote:





On May 30, 9:53*pm, WandererFan wrote:

Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. *He said
the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top
up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). * He said if
the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be
replaced.

Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm
not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. *A new, more efficient setup
would not pay us back in time.

A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be
around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is
still ok.

Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

TIA,
Chris

That's crap. He's just trying to sell you a new unit. *What changed is
that as of 2010 manufacturers are no longer allowed to make new
equipment that uses r22. *R22 can still be use dto service exitsing
equipment. *R22 is being phased out. *As of 2020 r22 it's self will
not be manufactured, only reclaimed/recycled r22 can be used. *R22
will get real expensive then. *It's possible someone will come up with
a substitute that can be used in r22 systems between now and then but
no one has so far. *The newer refridgerants run at a significantly
higher pressure and can't be used in an r22 system.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Agree with the above. *You need an honest tech. * The system
should be checked for leaks. *If it's a leak that can be easily
and inexpensively fixed, then you could do that and then
re-charge the system. * If it's a leak in the coils, etc. then it's
time for a new system.

Even if you're selling your home, you might get most or all
of the money back. * A home inspector is going to flag
a 20 year old AC as being near it's end of life. * Doesn't
mean you have any obligation to replace it, but it will
make the buyers more nervous and they may use
some other issue to hardball or scuttle the deal. *And
if you have a new system, you can feature that you
have a brand new high efficiency HVAC system as
a selling point. *A lot of people just want a house with
no issues. *Also look into the various rebates that
are available from utilities, state gov, etc. * Last year
the FEDS had a 30% tax credit on the purchase of
a new system that met certain efficiency standards.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Having sold a home not long ago

90% of buyers want one in pristine shape, so they dont have to do
anything but move in.

So the old AC means 90% of buyers wouldnt even consider it.

That will make your home harder to sell

and right now you can pick who installs your new unit.

Once the buyer gets a home inspector involved We demand a TRANE or
any highest priced unit installed with the best 20 year warranty and
all the bells and whistles, like variable speed AC in canada and a R30
AC efficency. Its costly but we dont care were the buyer

Before buyers get involved you can select exactly what you want, and
just say AC is new last year.

Call a different company. Last I checked, it's legal to top
off a system less than 50 pounds charge. Central air for
homes typicaly 5 or 6 pounds.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"WandererFan" wrote in message
...
Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today.
He said
the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not
allowed to top
up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He
said if
the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to
be
replaced.

Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or
so, I'm
not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more
efficient setup
would not pay us back in time.

A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going
to be
around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing
equipment is
still ok.

Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

TIA,
Chris

Neat, I'd not heard about dry systems. Good thing I have a
pound or two of gas, left.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in
message ...

ERRRRRRRR! Wrong, manufacturers no longer ship systems
containing R-22.
We purchase and install new R-22 equipment referred to as
"dry" systems.
The equipment has no refrigerant in it. At the start of
Spring, I
installed a new condensing unit designed for R-22 for a
customer who
didn't need everything replaced. The condensing unit came
from the factory charged with nitrogen. The new equipment we
obtain from
the supply house has the new refrigerant R-410A and enough
is in
the new condensing unit for a matching evaporator and a
15-20foot line
set. My suppliers have a hard time keeping "new" dry R-22
equipment in
stock because of demand. :-)

TDD

On 5/31/2011 5:52 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

wrote
If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as
you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the
time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it
would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus.

That is true, but. . . . . .

How does it really affect the selling price? Let's say the new unit
is $6000. What is the difference in selling price of the house with
the old unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? Can you get
your money back? Many people seem to want to just move in and have
everything perfect, not have to lift a finger. I've watched a couple
of TV shows where people rejected a house because of ugly paint in a
room. For $15 and an hour labor, you get the color of your choice.

Personally, I'd low ball the bid by $10,000 and choose the brand and
installer of my choice but some non-mechanical types just want to
set the thermostat and be cool. That 20 year old unit can die
tomorrow, but it may go another 20 years too. Bit of a crap shoot.

Any realtors here have a comment?

Yeah, I sold my house in the Chicago suburbs 3 years ago. The
buyers put on a nicey nicey attitude. They finally signed the
contract and started demanding. I thought a contract was binding,
but apparently in the bad housing market they can demand anything
they want. They, through their lawyer, said the furnace was "beyond
useful life" so they wanted us to give them a new one. That
probably meant new AC as it was older than the furnace
(furnace=18yo, AC compressor=1978, A coil=5yo). The system worked
quiet well. The AC unit was the highest efficiency unit in 1978.
By today's standards, 8.5 is just average. So, I refused, but
eventually gave a little. The furnace's secondary heat exchanger
still was under the original 25 year warranty, so I offered to buy
them 1 additional year home buyer's policy. When they demanded the
carpets be completely cleaned (they were installed brand new for the
house selling), I dug in and said NO, ENOUGH!. The buyers kept
complaining. I kept saying NO. Finally, my real estate agent and
my lawyer split the cost just to get it closed .... believe it or
not. And, even at the closing (I was on the road to my new
location/state) they caused more problems, but finally signed. So,
anything is apparently negotiable. My advice, spend as little as
possible, as a seller .... but dig in. BTW, the buyer's lawyer said
his client was "nuts", but we all knew that.

Since they can change the terms by demanding stuff after the
close, you can change the terms by increasing the sale
price.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Art Todesco" wrote in message
...

Yeah, I sold my house in the Chicago suburbs 3 years ago.
The
buyers put on a nicey nicey attitude. They finally signed
the
contract and started demanding. I thought a contract was
binding,
but apparently in the bad housing market they can demand
anything
they want. They, through their lawyer, said the furnace was
"beyond
useful life" so they wanted us to give them a new one. That
probably meant new AC as it was older than the furnace
(furnace=18yo, AC compressor=1978, A coil=5yo). The system
worked
quiet well. The AC unit was the highest efficiency unit in
1978.
By today's standards, 8.5 is just average. So, I refused,
but
eventually gave a little. The furnace's secondary heat
exchanger
still was under the original 25 year warranty, so I offered
to buy
them 1 additional year home buyer's policy. When they
demanded the
carpets be completely cleaned (they were installed brand new
for the
house selling), I dug in and said NO, ENOUGH!. The buyers
kept
complaining. I kept saying NO. Finally, my real estate
agent and
my lawyer split the cost just to get it closed .... believe
it or
not. And, even at the closing (I was on the road to my new
location/state) they caused more problems, but finally
signed. So,
anything is apparently negotiable. My advice, spend as
little as
possible, as a seller .... but dig in. BTW, the buyer's
lawyer said
his client was "nuts", but we all knew that.

On May 30, 10:19*pm, wrote:
le snip

*He cannot "just" top up the R22 - but if he draws it down and leak
tests it, "finds" a leak and repairs it, he can still refill the
system - using your reclaimed R22 and whatever is required to top it
up.

At least that was the law last year in Ontario.

This is in fact, Ontario, so I guess the tech wasn't really fibbing.

Disappointing to hear the "dissing" of the tech in the replies,
though. We've used this local firm for a number of years for furnace
and a/c, although they weren't the original installer (gas company
promo). Aww well, guess it's like tools, good old names don't
necessarily mean good new tools.

Understand the issue about buyers wanting pristine move in condition.
Will take it into account of course. Plan was to have the plant
"serviced" just before listing so we could say everything works with a
clear conscience.

Personally, I'd rather buy the house a bit lower and choose my own
equipment. If I buy for the next guy, it's going to be the cheapest
package available, not the best.

C.

On Tue, 31 May 2011 11:07:15 -0400, Art Todesco
wrote:

On 5/31/2011 5:52 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

wrote
If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as
you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the
time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it
would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus.

That is true, but. . . . . .

How does it really affect the selling price? Let's say the new unit
is $6000. What is the difference in selling price of the house with
the old unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? Can you get
your money back? Many people seem to want to just move in and have
everything perfect, not have to lift a finger. I've watched a couple
of TV shows where people rejected a house because of ugly paint in a
room. For $15 and an hour labor, you get the color of your choice.

Personally, I'd low ball the bid by $10,000 and choose the brand and
installer of my choice but some non-mechanical types just want to
set the thermostat and be cool. That 20 year old unit can die
tomorrow, but it may go another 20 years too. Bit of a crap shoot.

Any realtors here have a comment?

Yeah, I sold my house in the Chicago suburbs 3 years ago. The
buyers put on a nicey nicey attitude. They finally signed the
contract and started demanding. I thought a contract was binding,
but apparently in the bad housing market they can demand anything
they want. They, through their lawyer, said the furnace was "beyond
useful life" so they wanted us to give them a new one. That
probably meant new AC as it was older than the furnace
(furnace=18yo, AC compressor=1978, A coil=5yo). The system worked
quiet well. The AC unit was the highest efficiency unit in 1978.
By today's standards, 8.5 is just average. So, I refused, but
eventually gave a little. The furnace's secondary heat exchanger
still was under the original 25 year warranty, so I offered to buy
them 1 additional year home buyer's policy. When they demanded the
carpets be completely cleaned (they were installed brand new for the
house selling), I dug in and said NO, ENOUGH!. The buyers kept
complaining. I kept saying NO. Finally, my real estate agent and
my lawyer split the cost just to get it closed .... believe it or
not. And, even at the closing (I was on the road to my new
location/state) they caused more problems, but finally signed. So,
anything is apparently negotiable. My advice, spend as little as
possible, as a seller .... but dig in. BTW, the buyer's lawyer said
his client was "nuts", but we all knew that.

Once he makes a legal offer on a home, the buyer has tipped his hand
that he wants the house.
Everything after that is common haggling.
Some buyers haggle hard, some don't.
You did fine holding firm.
Condos may work differently, but homes have a "personality" beyond
condition. Not just location, but room layout, yard layout, view from
windows, garage, etc.
If the home doesn't need expensive repairs and the personality matches
the buyer's, that's it.
I know realtors say different. To them every damn house fits their
client.
I've bought 2 houses and never paid attention to the realtor except
getting me to houses I might want, paperwork and advice on a counter
offer.
First one was priced fair and my wife loved it. I really liked it.
Cat hair all over, cat smell, clutter, needing rooms painted - didn't
matter.
Other lookers were coming in as we went out and I asked the realtor if
we paid asking price was it ours, and she said "yes."
That's what I did.
Second house had non-working window units for A/C, a 60 amp service,
and a 1959 kitchen. Wife loved it, I really liked it.
I was willing to pay asking, but my realtor saved me $8500 on the
offering part.
I had a 200 amp service and new furnace/central air put in a year
later.
The OP should note to buyers the A/C is marginal, or just get it fixed
or replaced so it's not an issue.
But there's no way of knowing if it will affect selling price of the
home. That will depend entirely on the market.
If I was a buyer, I would haggle on that one, since it's a main
mechanical system.
If I was the owner, I'd get it replaced due to age/functionality, even
if I was planning on selling the house.

--Vic

On May 31, 10:29*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Neat, I'd not heard about dry systems. Good thing I have a
pound or two of gas, left.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in
...

ERRRRRRRR! Wrong, manufacturers no longer ship systems
containing R-22.
We purchase and install new R-22 equipment referred to as
"dry" systems.
The equipment has no refrigerant in it. At the start of
Spring, I
installed a new condensing unit designed for R-22 for a
customer who
didn't need everything replaced. The condensing unit came
from the factory charged with nitrogen. The new equipment we
obtain from
the supply house has the new refrigerant R-410A and enough
is in
the new condensing unit for a matching evaporator and a
15-20foot line
set. My suppliers have a hard time keeping "new" dry R-22
equipment in
stock because of demand. :-)

TDD

ok, my bad. Sort of a symantics thing. There are not supposed ot be
any new complete r22 systems sold. Yes, you can buy every part of a
system.

On 5/31/2011 2:45 PM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On May 31, 10:29 am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Neat, I'd not heard about dry systems. Good thing I have a
pound or two of gas, left.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"The Daring wrote in
...

ERRRRRRRR! Wrong, manufacturers no longer ship systems
containing R-22.
We purchase and install new R-22 equipment referred to as
"dry" systems.
The equipment has no refrigerant in it. At the start of
Spring, I
installed a new condensing unit designed for R-22 for a
customer who
didn't need everything replaced. The condensing unit came
from the factory charged with nitrogen. The new equipment we
obtain from
the supply house has the new refrigerant R-410A and enough
is in
the new condensing unit for a matching evaporator and a
15-20foot line
set. My suppliers have a hard time keeping "new" dry R-22
equipment in
stock because of demand. :-)

TDD

ok, my bad. Sort of a symantics thing. There are not supposed ot be
any new complete r22 systems sold. Yes, you can buy every part of a
system.

You can buy a complete R-22 system, it just won't have any R-22 in it. :-)

TDD

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

wrote
If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as
you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the
time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it
would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus.

That is true, but. . . . . .

How does it really affect the selling price? Let's say the new unit is
$6000. What is the difference in selling price of the house with the old
unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? Can you get your money
back? Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything
perfect, not have to lift a finger. I've watched a couple of TV shows
where people rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. For $15
and an hour labor, you get the color of your choice.

Personally, I'd low ball the bid by $10,000 and choose the brand and
installer of my choice but some non-mechanical types just want to set the
thermostat and be cool. That 20 year old unit can die tomorrow, but it
may go another 20 years too. Bit of a crap shoot.

Any realtors here have a comment?
Nothing personal Ed but here is how I deal with buyers like you.

No but a multiple property owner does and here is how it goes:

Take your damn silly games someplace else. I don't owe a penny on this
house and do not have to sell it.

I would like to sell it to someone who can appreciate the value that I am
offering for the money. Put your final offer in writing with all financing
and other contingencies defined. I will review your offer and get back to
you.

Colbyt

"WandererFan" wrote in message
...
Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said
the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top
up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if
the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be
replaced.

Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm
not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup
would not pay us back in time.

A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be
around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is
still ok.

Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

TIA,
Chris

Chris,

It is BS. 22 is widely available and will be for some time to come.

Call another reputable company.

Colbyt

On Tue, 31 May 2011 05:52:09 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:


wrote
If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as
you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the
time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it
would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus.

That is true, but. . . . . .

How does it really affect the selling price? Let's say the new unit is
$6000. What is the difference in selling price of the house with the old
unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? Can you get your money back?
Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect, not
have to lift a finger. I've watched a couple of TV shows where people
rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. For $15 and an hour
labor, you get the color of your choice.

Anyone with any brains would never pay the cost of a newish
airconditioner more for a house just because it has a new ish air
conditioner. Putting a new one in under their name gets THEM the
warranty. If selling the house I'd get an estimate for a replacement
and tell the buyer they can have that off the normal selling price or
you'll put it in for them (pay to have it done).

I've seen too many cases where a new AC unit is installed, and the new
buyer decides they want a different super high efficiency, quiet, or
what-ever furnace - and the brand new A/C gets pitched along with the
old furnace as the buyer gets a "package deal" on the new system.
Personally, I'd low ball the bid by $10,000 and choose the brand and
installer of my choice but some non-mechanical types just want to set the
thermostat and be cool. That 20 year old unit can die tomorrow, but it may
go another 20 years too. Bit of a crap shoot.


Mine is 30 years old and still going. Replacing it is less than $4000.
I replaced the furnace several years ago and left the old AC - after
talking to the contractor he agreed "they will only go DOWN in price"
and the savings between the old and the new for the few days we
actually run it, would take twice the lifetime of the unit to pay for
itself.
Any realtors here have a comment?

On Tue, 31 May 2011 09:17:42 -0700 (PDT), WandererFan
wrote:

On May 30, 10:19Â*pm, wrote:
le snip

Â*He cannot "just" top up the R22 - but if he draws it down and leak
tests it, "finds" a leak and repairs it, he can still refill the
system - using your reclaimed R22 and whatever is required to top it
up.

At least that was the law last year in Ontario.

This is in fact, Ontario, so I guess the tech wasn't really fibbing.

Disappointing to hear the "dissing" of the tech in the replies,
though. We've used this local firm for a number of years for furnace
and a/c, although they weren't the original installer (gas company
promo). Aww well, guess it's like tools, good old names don't
necessarily mean good new tools.

Understand the issue about buyers wanting pristine move in condition.
Will take it into account of course. Plan was to have the plant
"serviced" just before listing so we could say everything works with a
clear conscience.

Personally, I'd rather buy the house a bit lower and choose my own
equipment. If I buy for the next guy, it's going to be the cheapest
package available, not the best.

C.
And Canadian buyers, on the whole, have come to expect that. If the
unit is 5 years old, the seller likely bought the best he could
afford. If it's less than a year old, he likely bought the cheapest he
could get.

On May 31, 3:24*pm, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2011 11:07:15 -0400, Art Todesco
wrote:

Yeah, I sold my house in the Chicago suburbs 3 years ago. *The
buyers put on a nicey nicey attitude. *They finally signed the
contract and started demanding

????

I've had buyers submit *offers* on homes, which they sign and present
to my agent. And the offer, counter-offer begins. But never by use of
a contract. Your laws might be different.

I think what he's talking about is that the typical sales contract
has an inspection contigency clause. The sellers used that,
eg the furnace is past it's life expectancy, to then further
negotiate after the contract was signed.

On May 31, 8:59*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2011 05:52:09 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"





wrote:

wrote
If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as
you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the
time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it
would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus.

That is true, but. . . . . .

How does it really affect the selling price? *Let's say the new unit is
$6000. *What is the difference in selling price of the house with the old
unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? *Can you get your money back?
Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect, not
have to lift a finger. *I've watched a couple of TV shows where people
rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. *For $15 and an hour
labor, you get the color of your choice.

Anyone with any brains would never pay the cost of a newish
airconditioner more for a house just because it has a new ish air
conditioner. Putting a new one in under their name gets THEM the
warranty.

You have evidence that HVAC systems warranties are never
transferable? Or even typically not transferable?

On May 31, 6:43*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 5/31/2011 2:45 PM, jamesgangnc wrote:





On May 31, 10:29 am, "Stormin Mormon"
*wrote:
Neat, I'd not heard about dry systems. Good thing I have a
pound or two of gas, left.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"The Daring *wrote in
...

ERRRRRRRR! Wrong, manufacturers no longer ship systems
containing R-22.
We purchase and install new R-22 equipment referred to as
"dry" systems.
The equipment has no refrigerant in it. At the start of
Spring, I
installed a new condensing unit designed for R-22 for a
customer who
didn't need everything replaced. The condensing unit came
from the factory charged with nitrogen. The new equipment we
obtain from
the supply house has the new refrigerant R-410A and enough
is in
the new condensing unit for a matching evaporator and a
15-20foot line
set. My suppliers have a hard time keeping "new" dry R-22
equipment in
stock because of demand. :-)

TDD

ok, my bad. *Sort of a symantics thing. *There are not supposed ot be
any new complete r22 systems sold. *Yes, you can buy every part of a
system.

You can buy a complete R-22 system, it just won't have any R-22 in it. :-)

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

True enough. There is some debate about this now in the industry.
The intent of the law was to stop the sale and installtion of new r22
systems after 2010. The actual wording of the law prevents the sale
of pre-charged r22 equipment after 2010. Thus creating the loophole
for the sale of empty r22 equipment. Some are mad at the
manufacturers for continuing to make the r22 equipment since a lot of
them have been telling customers that after 2010 you won't be able to
buy r22 equipment. The downturn in the economy has contributed a bit
as well with more people looking for ways to get by as cheaply as
possible. The situation has lead to some techs offering to replace
r22 systems with new r22 systems for less than the cost of a new r410a
system.

I can't complain about it myself since I picked up a new r22 system
just last month. My house has two systems. One is a 3 year old r22
system and the other is a 19 year old r22 system. I picked up a
matching r22 system, dry of course, so that I could replace the 19
year old one with one that matches the 3 year old one. Having 2 the
same makes troubleshooting a breeze. I'm not real worried about the
availability of r22 for the next 5 or 6 years. After that I'll just
keep a can for myself.

On 6/1/2011 8:05 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On May 31, 6:43 pm, The Daring
wrote:
On 5/31/2011 2:45 PM, jamesgangnc wrote:





On May 31, 10:29 am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Neat, I'd not heard about dry systems. Good thing I have a
pound or two of gas, left.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"The Daring wrote in
...

ERRRRRRRR! Wrong, manufacturers no longer ship systems
containing R-22.
We purchase and install new R-22 equipment referred to as
"dry" systems.
The equipment has no refrigerant in it. At the start of
Spring, I
installed a new condensing unit designed for R-22 for a
customer who
didn't need everything replaced. The condensing unit came
from the factory charged with nitrogen. The new equipment we
obtain from
the supply house has the new refrigerant R-410A and enough
is in
the new condensing unit for a matching evaporator and a
15-20foot line
set. My suppliers have a hard time keeping "new" dry R-22
equipment in
stock because of demand. :-)

TDD

ok, my bad. Sort of a symantics thing. There are not supposed ot be
any new complete r22 systems sold. Yes, you can buy every part of a
system.

You can buy a complete R-22 system, it just won't have any R-22 in it. :-)

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

True enough. There is some debate about this now in the industry.
The intent of the law was to stop the sale and installtion of new r22
systems after 2010. The actual wording of the law prevents the sale
of pre-charged r22 equipment after 2010. Thus creating the loophole
for the sale of empty r22 equipment. Some are mad at the
manufacturers for continuing to make the r22 equipment since a lot of
them have been telling customers that after 2010 you won't be able to
buy r22 equipment. The downturn in the economy has contributed a bit
as well with more people looking for ways to get by as cheaply as
possible. The situation has lead to some techs offering to replace
r22 systems with new r22 systems for less than the cost of a new r410a
system.

I can't complain about it myself since I picked up a new r22 system
just last month. My house has two systems. One is a 3 year old r22
system and the other is a 19 year old r22 system. I picked up a
matching r22 system, dry of course, so that I could replace the 19
year old one with one that matches the 3 year old one. Having 2 the
same makes troubleshooting a breeze. I'm not real worried about the
availability of r22 for the next 5 or 6 years. After that I'll just
keep a can for myself.

Me and my buddy GB are repairing more than we replace but we do install
new R-410A systems when a whole system needs replacing. The problem is
a great many HVAC companies have and have had a policy of replace
instead of repair. Me and my friend are just the opposite, we will
repair if possible and only replace if necessary. It's actually easier
to replace a condensing unit than it is to replace its compressor but I
do it all the time and am quite good at it. The caveat is the warranty
on a new compressor is one year and the warranty on a new condensing
unit is 5 years but you have to tell the customer the truth and give
them a choice. If I see that the condenser coil is in good shape and
the fan and other electrical parts are good, I recommend replacing the
compressor but if the coil is beat up and the fan motor is soon to die,
I tell the customer a condensing unit is a better deal especially if
it's a beat up heat pump with all the extra components that can die.

TDD

On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:26:35 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On May 31, 8:59Â*pm, wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2011 05:52:09 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"





wrote:

wrote
If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as
you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the
time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it
would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus.

That is true, but. . . . . .

How does it really affect the selling price? Â*Let's say the new unit is
$6000. Â*What is the difference in selling price of the house with the old
unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? Â*Can you get your money back?
Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect, not
have to lift a finger. Â*I've watched a couple of TV shows where people
rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. Â*For $15 and an hour
labor, you get the color of your choice.

Anyone with any brains would never pay the cost of a newish
airconditioner more for a house just because it has a new ish air
conditioner. Putting a new one in under their name gets THEM the
warranty.

You have evidence that HVAC systems warranties are never
transferable? Or even typically not transferable?

Generally transfwerring ANY warranty is a hassle.. Not saying it's
impossible - but it is seldom done without issues - and many
warrantees are either to the original owner, or transferrable for a
fee

On 6/1/2011 10:04 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:26:35 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On May 31, 8:59 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2011 05:52:09 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"





wrote:

wrote
If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as
you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the
time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it
would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus.

That is true, but. . . . . .

How does it really affect the selling price? Let's say the new unit is
$6000. What is the difference in selling price of the house with the old
unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? Can you get your money back?
Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect, not
have to lift a finger. I've watched a couple of TV shows where people
rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. For $15 and an hour
labor, you get the color of your choice.

Anyone with any brains would never pay the cost of a newish
airconditioner more for a house just because it has a new ish air
conditioner. Putting a new one in under their name gets THEM the
warranty.

You have evidence that HVAC systems warranties are never
transferable? Or even typically not transferable?

Generally transfwerring ANY warranty is a hassle.. Not saying it's
impossible - but it is seldom done without issues - and many
warrantees are either to the original owner, or transferrable for a
fee


We just give the supplier the serial number off the equipment and they
look it up, even for equipment I didn't install. If it's in warranty,
they replace it. They don't usually ask the customer's name unless it's
something special.

TDD

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:26:35 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On May 31, 8:59 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2011 05:52:09 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"





wrote:

wrote
If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as
you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the
time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it
would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus.

That is true, but. . . . . .

How does it really affect the selling price? Let's say the new unit is
$6000. What is the difference in selling price of the house with the
old
unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? Can you get your money
back?
Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect,
not
have to lift a finger. I've watched a couple of TV shows where people
rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. For $15 and an hour
labor, you get the color of your choice.

Anyone with any brains would never pay the cost of a newish
airconditioner more for a house just because it has a new ish air
conditioner. Putting a new one in under their name gets THEM the
warranty.

You have evidence that HVAC systems warranties are never
transferable? Or even typically not transferable?

Generally transfwerring ANY warranty is a hassle.. Not saying it's
impossible - but it is seldom done without issues - and many
warrantees are either to the original owner, or transferrable for a
fee


With Trane, no registration I required so no hassle with a transfer.

On Jun 2, 5:48*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
wrote in message

...





On Wed, 1 Jun 2011 05:26:35 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On May 31, 8:59 pm, wrote:
On Tue, 31 May 2011 05:52:09 -0400, "Ed Pawlowski"

wrote:

wrote
If the new owner wants new air it's HIS problem to fix it, as long as
you disclose that the central air is "there and functional for the
time being". (Assuming) You are selling the house at the price it
would sell for with no AC so if it works it's a bonus.

That is true, but. . . . . .

How does it really affect the selling price? *Let's say the new unit is
$6000. *What is the difference in selling price of the house with the
old
unit versus a brand new energy efficient unit? *Can you get your money
back?
Many people seem to want to just move in and have everything perfect,
not
have to lift a finger. *I've watched a couple of TV shows where people
rejected a house because of ugly paint in a room. *For $15 and an hour
labor, you get the color of your choice.

Anyone with any brains would never pay the cost of a newish
airconditioner more for a house just because it has a new ish air
conditioner. Putting a new one in under their name gets THEM the
warranty.

You have evidence that HVAC systems warranties are never
transferable? * Or even typically not transferable?

Generally transfwerring ANY warranty is a hassle.. Not saying it's
impossible - but it is seldom done without issues - and many
warrantees are either to the original owner, or transferrable for a
fee

With Trane, no registration I required so no hassle with a transfer.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree, I think most of them base it off the serial numbers.
Sometimes registration will buy you some additional warranty. If
equipment sits around for a while the the warranty is supposed to
start with equipment start up.

WandererFan wrote the following:
Had a tech out to look over my 20 yr old central a/c today. He said
the fluid level was "border line", but that he was not allowed to top
up the system as it used the old type of fluid (R22?). He said if
the system couldn't keep up with the load it would have to be
replaced.

Since we are probably leaving this house in the next year or so, I'm
not enthusiastic about a new a/c plant. A new, more efficient setup
would not pay us back in time.

A bit of googling seems to indicate that R22 is still going to be
around until 2015 or 2020 and that its use in existing equipment is
still ok.

Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

TIA,
Chris


I'm not responding to your question, just giving some advice.
When you are posting a question, especially in this home repair group,
it would be wise to indicate where you are located, so that you don't
get responses that don't apply where you are.
You'll note that some of the responses do not not apply to your
situation and have disparaged the tech, although he was correct for your
location.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On May 30, 9:53*pm, WandererFan wrote:
Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

If the refrigerant's low, it's LEAKING.

A licensed pro can't legally top off a refrigeration system with a
known leak. If the EPA gets wind of it he'd face fines and would
probably lose his license.

Odds are a leak would require the replacement of one or more major
components. Once you start replacing major components on a unit that
old, you are better off in the long run to simply replace it. You will
be chasing problem after problem if you try to fix it.

When I got my card, it was legal to top off systems
containing less than 50 pounds of refrigerant.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

A licensed pro can't legally top off a refrigeration system
with a
known leak. If the EPA gets wind of it he'd face fines and
would
probably lose his license.

On Tue, 7 Jun 2011 10:53:36 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On May 30, 9:53Â*pm, WandererFan wrote:
Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

If the refrigerant's low, it's LEAKING.

A licensed pro can't legally top off a refrigeration system with a
known leak. If the EPA gets wind of it he'd face fines and would
probably lose his license.

Odds are a leak would require the replacement of one or more major
components. Once you start replacing major components on a unit that
old, you are better off in the long run to simply replace it. You will
be chasing problem after problem if you try to fix it.
You'd be surprised how many AC leaks are bad fill valves, or on
automotive AC, bad "O" rings. Minor components can leak as much as
major components.

wrote in message
...
On May 30, 9:53 pm, WandererFan wrote:
Was the tech correct, or just trying to earn a commission?

If the refrigerant's low, it's LEAKING.

A licensed pro can't legally top off a refrigeration system with a
known leak. If the EPA gets wind of it he'd face fines and would
probably lose his license.

They do call HVAC service guys to come out to a house to see if they will do
things like that. OTOH, you can always take a couple of wrenches to a
fitting, snug it up and swear it was leaking.

On May 31, 12:17*pm, WandererFan wrote:
On May 30, 10:19*pm, wrote:

Disappointing to hear the "dissing" of the tech in the replies,
though. *We've used this local firm for a number of years for furnace
and a/c, although they weren't the original installer (gas company
promo). * Aww well, guess it's like tools, good old names don't
necessarily mean good new tools.


I don't believe there is such a thing as a "borderline" charge nor do
I think a charge can be "topped off."

It is either properly charged or not.

If it is not, then either it was never charged correctly (majority) or
it has a leak. Systems do not use up refrigerant, they are sealed.

If it is not charged correctly, it is perfectly legal to adjust the
charge. If he knows how.

If it has a leak, it is not legal to add charge without repairing the
leak. At least, when I took the the refrigerant class for the license
that was the case; that's been a while.

So if he's saying there's a leak and he's not willing to top it off
then he's not only legal but professional.

If there's not a leak, I