I mean the average residential oven. I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

On 2/13/2011 10:27 PM, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

Don't the newer digital readout stoves indicate oven temperature? I've
never owned one but it only seems to be a logical feature to include.

TDD

On Feb 13, 11:27*pm, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. *I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. *Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

My Mom's electric stove has both a readout for the "set" temperature
and the actual temperature, at least while the oven is heating up. In
other words, you spin the knob to set the digital readout to 350 and
you can watch a smaller number in the corner of the display climb
towards 350.

To be honest, I don't recall if the "actual" temperature readout
varies during the cooking and since she lives 300 miles away, I can't
check tonight. :-)

My gas oven has a readout only for what it's set for. It reads "Pre"
while it's warming up, but when it reaches the set point it beeps and
displays the set point until the oven is turned off.

In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Feb 13, 11:27*pm, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. *I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. *Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

My Mom's electric stove has both a readout for the "set" temperature
and the actual temperature, at least while the oven is heating up. In
other words, you spin the knob to set the digital readout to 350 and
you can watch a smaller number in the corner of the display climb
towards 350.

To be honest, I don't recall if the "actual" temperature readout
varies during the cooking and since she lives 300 miles away, I can't
check tonight. :-)

My gas oven has a readout only for what it's set for. It reads "Pre"
while it's warming up, but when it reaches the set point it beeps and
displays the set point until the oven is turned off.

My 2 yr. old Bosch gas range displays the so-called actual temp during
oven warmup also, but I don't think it's accurate. After warmup, that
display goes out and all I see is the setpoint. Obviously the temp in an
oven is being monitored, but if the monitoring device isn't accurate
then it isn't accurate. I'm pretty sure mine is ~20 degrees F low.

Excursions from setpoint aren't that important to me; there has to be
some hysteresis built into the control algorithm and I trust the
engineers on that count.

On Feb 14, 12:41*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,



*DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:27*pm, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. *I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. *Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

My Mom's electric stove has both a readout for the "set" temperature
and the actual temperature, at least while the oven is heating up. In
other words, you spin the knob to set the digital readout to 350 and
you can watch a smaller number in the corner of the display climb
towards 350.

To be honest, I don't recall if the "actual" temperature readout
varies during the cooking and since she lives 300 miles away, I can't
check tonight. :-)

My gas oven has a readout only for what it's set for. It reads "Pre"
while it's warming up, but when it reaches the set point it beeps and
displays the set point until the oven is turned off.

My 2 yr. old Bosch gas range displays the so-called actual temp during
oven warmup also, but I don't think it's accurate. After warmup, that
display goes out and all I see is the setpoint. Obviously the temp in an
oven is being monitored, but if the monitoring device isn't accurate
then it isn't accurate. I'm pretty sure mine is ~20 degrees F low.

Excursions from setpoint aren't that important to me; there has to be
some hysteresis built into the control algorithm and I trust the
engineers on that count.

You may trust your engineers, but I don't trust mine.

Even when monitoring the actual temperature with an internal "shelf"
thermometer, and seeing it read exactly what the set-point says,
everything - and I mean *everything* - takes longer to cook than the
recipe - *any* recipe - says it should.

On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 22:36:49 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 2/13/2011 10:27 PM, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

Don't the newer digital readout stoves indicate oven temperature? I've
never owned one but it only seems to be a logical feature to include.

Yes, along with the digital set point, and often the clock and timer on the
same indicator.

In article , (DerbyDad03) writes:

| Even when monitoring the actual temperature with an internal "shelf"
| thermometer, and seeing it read exactly what the set-point says,
| everything - and I mean *everything* - takes longer to cook than the
| recipe - *any* recipe - says it should.

Interesting. I can't say for all recipes, but I've noticed that roasts
take significantly longer to cook than the minutes/pound label indicates--
sometimes twice as long. I have also checked the temperature with a shelf
thermometer and it is spot on. This led me to wonder just what assumptions
are implicit in those numbers. In particular, what starting temperature
do they assume? I keep my refrigerator at 36F so if they assume starting
at an average room temperature I can see how the time could be way off.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Feb 14, 12:41*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,



*DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:27*pm, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. *I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. *Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

My Mom's electric stove has both a readout for the "set" temperature
and the actual temperature, at least while the oven is heating up. In
other words, you spin the knob to set the digital readout to 350 and
you can watch a smaller number in the corner of the display climb
towards 350.

To be honest, I don't recall if the "actual" temperature readout
varies during the cooking and since she lives 300 miles away, I can't
check tonight. :-)

My gas oven has a readout only for what it's set for. It reads "Pre"
while it's warming up, but when it reaches the set point it beeps and
displays the set point until the oven is turned off.

My 2 yr. old Bosch gas range displays the so-called actual temp during
oven warmup also, but I don't think it's accurate. After warmup, that
display goes out and all I see is the setpoint. Obviously the temp in an
oven is being monitored, but if the monitoring device isn't accurate
then it isn't accurate. I'm pretty sure mine is ~20 degrees F low.

Excursions from setpoint aren't that important to me; there has to be
some hysteresis built into the control algorithm and I trust the
engineers on that count.

You may trust your engineers, but I don't trust mine.

Even when monitoring the actual temperature with an internal "shelf"
thermometer, and seeing it read exactly what the set-point says,
everything - and I mean *everything* - takes longer to cook than the
recipe - *any* recipe - says it should.

One day I'll actually remember to bring home an oven thermometer to
check my oven. I'd assumed that it was running low, just because
everything takes longer to cook, but maybe something else is going on.
I've been satisfied with putting the setpoint 20-25 higher than called
for.

On 2/13/2011 11:57 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 22:36:49 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 2/13/2011 10:27 PM, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

Don't the newer digital readout stoves indicate oven temperature? I've
never owned one but it only seems to be a logical feature to include.

Yes, along with the digital set point, and often the clock and timer on the
same indicator.

I often repair commercial conveyor ovens (pizza) which have heavy duty
versions of the same type control. Those ovens put out a tad more heat
than a home kitchen stove. :-)

http://www.middleby.com/midmarsh/ps540.htm

TDD

On 2/14/2011 12:49 AM, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
wrote:

On Feb 14, 12:41 am, Smitty wrote:
In article
,



wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:27 pm, wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

My Mom's electric stove has both a readout for the "set" temperature
and the actual temperature, at least while the oven is heating up. In
other words, you spin the knob to set the digital readout to 350 and
you can watch a smaller number in the corner of the display climb
towards 350.

To be honest, I don't recall if the "actual" temperature readout
varies during the cooking and since she lives 300 miles away, I can't
check tonight. :-)

My gas oven has a readout only for what it's set for. It reads "Pre"
while it's warming up, but when it reaches the set point it beeps and
displays the set point until the oven is turned off.

My 2 yr. old Bosch gas range displays the so-called actual temp during
oven warmup also, but I don't think it's accurate. After warmup, that
display goes out and all I see is the setpoint. Obviously the temp in an
oven is being monitored, but if the monitoring device isn't accurate
then it isn't accurate. I'm pretty sure mine is ~20 degrees F low.

Excursions from setpoint aren't that important to me; there has to be
some hysteresis built into the control algorithm and I trust the
engineers on that count.

You may trust your engineers, but I don't trust mine.

Even when monitoring the actual temperature with an internal "shelf"
thermometer, and seeing it read exactly what the set-point says,
everything - and I mean *everything* - takes longer to cook than the
recipe - *any* recipe - says it should.

One day I'll actually remember to bring home an oven thermometer to
check my oven. I'd assumed that it was running low, just because
everything takes longer to cook, but maybe something else is going on.
I've been satisfied with putting the setpoint 20-25 higher than called
for.

There is hysteresis and overshoot of the thermostatic controls to take
into account.

TDD

Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Feb 14, 12:41 am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,



DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:27 pm, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?
My Mom's electric stove has both a readout for the "set" temperature
and the actual temperature, at least while the oven is heating up. In
other words, you spin the knob to set the digital readout to 350 and
you can watch a smaller number in the corner of the display climb
towards 350.
To be honest, I don't recall if the "actual" temperature readout
varies during the cooking and since she lives 300 miles away, I can't
check tonight. :-)
My gas oven has a readout only for what it's set for. It reads "Pre"
while it's warming up, but when it reaches the set point it beeps and
displays the set point until the oven is turned off.
My 2 yr. old Bosch gas range displays the so-called actual temp during
oven warmup also, but I don't think it's accurate. After warmup, that
display goes out and all I see is the setpoint. Obviously the temp in an
oven is being monitored, but if the monitoring device isn't accurate
then it isn't accurate. I'm pretty sure mine is ~20 degrees F low.

Excursions from setpoint aren't that important to me; there has to be
some hysteresis built into the control algorithm and I trust the
engineers on that count.
You may trust your engineers, but I don't trust mine.

Even when monitoring the actual temperature with an internal "shelf"
thermometer, and seeing it read exactly what the set-point says,
everything - and I mean *everything* - takes longer to cook than the
recipe - *any* recipe - says it should.

One day I'll actually remember to bring home an oven thermometer to
check my oven. I'd assumed that it was running low, just because
everything takes longer to cook, but maybe something else is going on.
I've been satisfied with putting the setpoint 20-25 higher than called
for.
In a lot of cases it is (silently)assumed that the oven is pre-heated
to the proper temperature, and ingredients at room temperature.

Both of those can influence cooking/broiling/frying times quite a lot.

On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 20:27:20 -0800 (PST), Van
wrote:

I mean the average residential oven. I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

My girlfriend long ago moved to a very small apartment in a very
expensive n'hood, and her stove didn't have a temp setting on the
oven, just a valve. I got her an oven thermometer and said I wanted
to borrow it for a day or two to see if my oven temp matched my oven
setting.

She didn't want to lend it to me, and sort of called me an Indian
giver.

Earlier I had replaced the dial string on her radio and had her buy
the package of dial string. I wanted to keep what was left, but she
said it was hers and I couldn't have it.

But she was fun while it lasted.

On Feb 13, 11:23*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:27*pm, Van wrote:

I mean the average residential oven. *I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. *Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

My Mom's electric stove has both a readout for the "set" temperature
and the actual temperature, at least while the oven is heating up. In
other words, you spin the knob to set the digital readout to 350 and
you can watch a smaller number in the corner of the display climb
towards 350.

To be honest, I don't recall if the "actual" temperature readout
varies during the cooking and since she lives 300 miles away, I can't
check tonight. :-)

My gas oven has a readout only for what it's set for. It reads "Pre"
while it's warming up, but when it reaches the set point it beeps and
displays the set point until the oven is turned off.

I guess some of the new or more expensive ones do have a temp
indicator. Mine is a simple GE XL44 gas stove with digital display, I
think it's from circa 2002 maybe, I bought it used. Still even on a
basic level stove I would think connecting the sensor to the digital
display would be logical.

On Feb 14, 4:27*am, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. *I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. *Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

Exactly so. As they get older, ovens with a mechanical thermostat run
hotter compared with set temperature. The users compensate without
thinking too much. They get a surprise when they buy a new oven.

On Feb 14, 8:10*am, Van wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:23*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Feb 13, 11:27*pm, Van wrote:

I mean the average residential oven. *I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. *Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

My Mom's electric stove has both a readout for the "set" temperature
and the actual temperature, at least while the oven is heating up. In
other words, you spin the knob to set the digital readout to 350 and
you can watch a smaller number in the corner of the display climb
towards 350.

To be honest, I don't recall if the "actual" temperature readout
varies during the cooking and since she lives 300 miles away, I can't
check tonight. :-)

My gas oven has a readout only for what it's set for. It reads "Pre"
while it's warming up, but when it reaches the set point it beeps and
displays the set point until the oven is turned off.

I guess some of the new or more expensive ones do have a temp
indicator. *Mine is a simple GE XL44 gas stove with digital display, I
think it's from circa 2002 maybe, I bought it used. *Still even on a
basic level stove I would think connecting the sensor to the digital
display would be logical.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In the end, they are all analogue. There is no such thing as a digital
sensor.
The digital bit is all mumbo-jumbo sales-speak/ convenience of
manufacturing.

Just as in the end there is no digital TV, radio. We are analogue
creatures.

?
"Van" wrote in message
...
I mean the average residential oven. I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

Given that some have 50 degrees swings during the cycles, it would drive a
lot of people nuts just watching the thermometer.

?
"Dan Lanciani" ddl@danlan.*com wrote
Interesting. I can't say for all recipes, but I've noticed that roasts
take significantly longer to cook than the minutes/pound label indicates--
sometimes twice as long. I have also checked the temperature with a shelf
thermometer and it is spot on. This led me to wonder just what
assumptions
are implicit in those numbers. In particular, what starting temperature
do they assume? I keep my refrigerator at 36F so if they assume starting
at an average room temperature I can see how the time could be way off.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

I usually take a roast out of the fridge and hour or so before it goes into
the oven so it warms a bit. I also roast at 400 minimum too, and get better
results.

On Feb 14, 1:19*am, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
In article , (DerbyDad03) writes:

| Even when monitoring the actual temperature with an internal "shelf"
| thermometer, and seeing it read exactly what the set-point says,
| everything - and I mean *everything* - takes longer to cook than the
| recipe - *any* recipe - says it should.

Interesting. *I can't say for all recipes, but I've noticed that roasts
take significantly longer to cook than the minutes/pound label indicates--
sometimes twice as long. *I have also checked the temperature with a shelf
thermometer and it is spot on. *This led me to wonder just what assumptions
are implicit in those numbers. *In particular, what starting temperature
do they assume? *I keep my refrigerator at 36F so if they assume starting
at an average room temperature I can see how the time could be way off.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan Lanciani
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ddl@danlan.*com

the assumption is what each individual considers done.

me? rare is great. i have a friend who claims rare is any red at all
showing, he is really medium well///////

On Feb 14, 2:33*am, Sjouke Burry
wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
*DerbyDad03 wrote:

On Feb 14, 12:41 am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,

*DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:27 pm, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. *I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. *Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?
My Mom's electric stove has both a readout for the "set" temperature
and the actual temperature, at least while the oven is heating up. In
other words, you spin the knob to set the digital readout to 350 and
you can watch a smaller number in the corner of the display climb
towards 350.
To be honest, I don't recall if the "actual" temperature readout
varies during the cooking and since she lives 300 miles away, I can't
check tonight. :-)
My gas oven has a readout only for what it's set for. It reads "Pre"
while it's warming up, but when it reaches the set point it beeps and
displays the set point until the oven is turned off.
My 2 yr. old Bosch gas range displays the so-called actual temp during
oven warmup also, but I don't think it's accurate. After warmup, that
display goes out and all I see is the setpoint. Obviously the temp in an
oven is being monitored, but if the monitoring device isn't accurate
then it isn't accurate. I'm pretty sure mine is ~20 degrees F low.

Excursions from setpoint aren't that important to me; there has to be
some hysteresis built into the control algorithm and I trust the
engineers on that count.
You may trust your engineers, but I don't trust mine.

Even when monitoring the actual temperature with an internal "shelf"
thermometer, and seeing it read exactly what the set-point says,
everything - and I mean *everything* - takes longer to cook than the
recipe - *any* recipe - says it should.

One day I'll actually remember to bring home an oven thermometer to
check my oven. I'd assumed that it was running low, just because
everything takes longer to cook, but maybe something else is going on.
I've been satisfied with putting the setpoint 20-25 higher than called
for.

In a lot of cases it is (silently)assumed that the oven is pre-heated
to the proper temperature, and ingredients at room temperature.

Both of those can influence cooking/broiling/frying times quite a lot.

In my case, pre-heating is always done unless called for otherwise in
the recipe.

Room temperature of the food doesn't matter. Breads, cake batter,
marinated meats brought up to room temperature all take longer than
written. (Bringing marinated meats up to room temperature helps the
meat draw the marinate deeper into the meat)

BTW, why is called pre-heating? pre means before. We're not doing
anything "before" heating the oven, we're just *heating* the oven as
soon as we turn it on.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
BTW, why is called pre-heating? pre means before. We're not doing
anything "before" heating the oven, we're just *heating* the oven as
soon as we turn it on.

Probably for the same reason some call it a hot water heater.

Jon

On Feb 14, 8:35*am, "Jon Danniken"
wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
BTW, why is called pre-heating? pre means before. We're not doing
anything "before" heating the oven, we're just *heating* the oven as
soon as we turn it on.

Probably for the same reason some call it a hot water heater.

Jon

I was going to add that to my post, but refrained because the
difference is that "amateurs" (for lack of a better word) call it a
HWH, but "professionals" (cookbooks and manufacturers) use the term
pre-heating even to the extent that my display says "Pre" while it is
heating.

On Feb 14, 5:57*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

I usually take a roast out of the fridge and hour or so before it goes into
the oven so it warms a bit.

Perhaps the most common error is cooking cold meat.

I know people convinced a steak on the counter for an hour turns to
poison.
-----

- gpsman

On Feb 14, 5:52*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
?"Van" wrote in message

...

I mean the average residential oven. *I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. *Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

Given that some have 50 degrees swings during the cycles, it would drive a
lot of people nuts just watching the thermometer.

I have a Kitchenaid electric which is about a year old. You set it
digitally to
the desired temp. The oven starts out by showing "low" until it gets
to the
minimum temp that it will display, which I think is 160 or so. Then
it starts
showing the actual temp, increasing until it reaches the set point.
After that, I don't
think it shows variation, at least I've never seen it do it. It justs
shows the
set point and continues to do so, even if you open the door.

clipped

BTW, why is called pre-heating? pre means before. We're not doing
anything "before" heating the oven, we're just *heating* the oven as
soon as we turn it on.

Bringing the oven up to temp before putting the food in the oven.

On 2/13/2011 11:36 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 2/13/2011 10:27 PM, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

Don't the newer digital readout stoves indicate oven temperature? I've
never owned one but it only seems to be a logical feature to include.

TDD

We had a fairly new GE wall oven with digital therm. It was about 25
degrees off....there is a calibration maneuver, but with frequent power
outages it was a pain to reset the stupid thing. The engineers who
design appliances nowadays are doofusses who have never used a home
appliance. My Kenmore washer, when set to "hot", squirts hot on and off
to "save" energy. We kept the hwh set to "very warm", so the hot that
the washer was trying to control wasn't really hot, but luke-warm.

Current washer has "auto fill", and apparently weighs the load to
determine water level. If you open the lid at any point during the
cycle, it will automatically fill up to max level. Stupid, stupid, stupid!

On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:03:53 -0500, "
wrote:

clipped

BTW, why is called pre-heating? pre means before. We're not doing
anything "before" heating the oven, we're just *heating* the oven as
soon as we turn it on.

Bringing the oven up to temp before putting the food in the oven.

You mean pre-heating?

--Vic

On 2/14/2011 1:49 AM, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
wrote:

On Feb 14, 12:41 am, Smitty wrote:
In article
,



wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:27 pm, wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

My Mom's electric stove has both a readout for the "set" temperature
and the actual temperature, at least while the oven is heating up. In
other words, you spin the knob to set the digital readout to 350 and
you can watch a smaller number in the corner of the display climb
towards 350.

To be honest, I don't recall if the "actual" temperature readout
varies during the cooking and since she lives 300 miles away, I can't
check tonight. :-)

My gas oven has a readout only for what it's set for. It reads "Pre"
while it's warming up, but when it reaches the set point it beeps and
displays the set point until the oven is turned off.

My 2 yr. old Bosch gas range displays the so-called actual temp during
oven warmup also, but I don't think it's accurate. After warmup, that
display goes out and all I see is the setpoint. Obviously the temp in an
oven is being monitored, but if the monitoring device isn't accurate
then it isn't accurate. I'm pretty sure mine is ~20 degrees F low.

Excursions from setpoint aren't that important to me; there has to be
some hysteresis built into the control algorithm and I trust the
engineers on that count.

You may trust your engineers, but I don't trust mine.

Even when monitoring the actual temperature with an internal "shelf"
thermometer, and seeing it read exactly what the set-point says,
everything - and I mean *everything* - takes longer to cook than the
recipe - *any* recipe - says it should.

One day I'll actually remember to bring home an oven thermometer to
check my oven. I'd assumed that it was running low, just because
everything takes longer to cook, but maybe something else is going on.
I've been satisfied with putting the setpoint 20-25 higher than called
for.

I have no reason to believe that an oven thermometer is any more
accurate than the oven thermostat. Of course, I've boobooed a time or
two myself...bought a nice digital meat thermometer for Thanksgiving
turkey...stuck it in the bird, stuck the bird in the oven, and melted
the dang thermometer ) Who knew )

On Feb 13, 11:27*pm, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. *I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. *Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

Probably because consumers aren't interested in paying for it.

At the risk of sounding sexist, women don't want that much
information.

Old recipes often refer just to a "slow" oven or a "fast" oven.

Cindy Hamilton

On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 05:52:56 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

?
"Van" wrote in message
...
I mean the average residential oven. I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

Given that some have 50 degrees swings during the cycles, it would drive a
lot of people nuts just watching the thermometer.

Ah. That must be what has happened.

On 2/14/2011 10:12 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:03:53 -0500, "
wrote:

clipped

BTW, why is called pre-heating? pre means before. We're not doing
anything "before" heating the oven, we're just *heating* the oven as
soon as we turn it on.

Bringing the oven up to temp before putting the food in the oven.

You mean pre-heating?

--Vic

"Pre-" being afore ya put the food into the warm (not hot yet) oven. If
the oven heats slowly, it might dry out some foods too much if put into
the oven before it reaches the right temp.

On Feb 14, 10:19*am, Cindy Hamilton
wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:27*pm, Van wrote:

I mean the average residential oven. *I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. *Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

Probably because consumers aren't interested in paying for it.

At the risk of sounding sexist, women don't want that much
information.

Gosh, don't they understand that the success or failure of a roast
depends on sampling temperature to three significant figures every 30
seconds for two hours? Don't they understand that having more numbers
in front of them validates their intellect?

Next you'll tell me that many of them don't know what power factor
their fridge is running at or what perils await if the counter outlets
are installed ground-pin-down. They sure are lucky they've got us
around. Now excuse me, I see a switch plate that doesn't have its
screw slots lined up. Hey, did you move my tools? I've been keeping
them right here on the counter next to the sink.

Old recipes often refer just to a "slow" oven or a "fast" oven.

For "fast" you opened the draught and threw in some coal. Even more if
someone was drawing hot water.

Chip C
Toronto

On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 11:09:15 -0500, "
wrote:

On 2/14/2011 10:12 AM, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:03:53 -0500, "
wrote:

clipped

BTW, why is called pre-heating? pre means before. We're not doing
anything "before" heating the oven, we're just *heating* the oven as
soon as we turn it on.

Bringing the oven up to temp before putting the food in the oven.

You mean pre-heating?

--Vic

"Pre-" being afore ya put the food into the warm (not hot yet) oven. If
the oven heats slowly, it might dry out some foods too much if put into
the oven before it reaches the right temp.

Hey, that's what I was thinking! Thanks for the confirm.

--Vic

On 2/14/2011 12:41 AM, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
wrote:

On Feb 13, 11:27 pm, wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

My Mom's electric stove has both a readout for the "set" temperature
and the actual temperature, at least while the oven is heating up. In
other words, you spin the knob to set the digital readout to 350 and
you can watch a smaller number in the corner of the display climb
towards 350.

To be honest, I don't recall if the "actual" temperature readout
varies during the cooking and since she lives 300 miles away, I can't
check tonight. :-)

My gas oven has a readout only for what it's set for. It reads "Pre"
while it's warming up, but when it reaches the set point it beeps and
displays the set point until the oven is turned off.

My 2 yr. old Bosch gas range displays the so-called actual temp during
oven warmup also, but I don't think it's accurate. After warmup, that
display goes out and all I see is the setpoint. Obviously the temp in an
oven is being monitored, but if the monitoring device isn't accurate
then it isn't accurate. I'm pretty sure mine is ~20 degrees F low.

Excursions from setpoint aren't that important to me; there has to be
some hysteresis built into the control algorithm and I trust the
engineers on that count.
My guess is the don't want you to know how much it varies. My last
oven was a Dacor piece of junk. It varied all over the place. When
I contacted the factory, the person repeatedly read the line,
"Industry standard for residential oven is that it can vary by 25
degrees" ... not saying if it + or - 25 or a range of 25. I later
got the answer that it was a range of 25. I did extensive testing
and found that its range was about 35 or 40 degrees. The authorized
service people couldn't make it better. I gave up and lived with
the stupid thing. 40 degrees is no problem for a big roast or
something like that, but for a cookie or something that small, it is
far to iffy. If you put it in at the top of the range, the cookie
will likely be over crisp ... at the bottom of the range, it will
not cook in the allotted time. About 8 years after that, I called
the company and asked if they had ever fixed their problems. They
offered a new control panel for free, but I would have to pay to
have it installed and no, I couldn't do it myself. I bit, it was
about 50% better. BTW, this oven had no temperature reading other
than the set temp. A bit to their defense, it is hard to hold the
temp tight, especially when one side of the cube keeps being opened
and of course, you don't want overshoot for a red hot cal rod. But,
I think they could do better. My present new Whirlpool has just as
many dumb "features" designed in. For instance, when broiling, if
you open the door, the upper cal rod shuts down. And then it takes
forever to get cherry red again. It also shuts down at 500 degrees.
How do you broil in an "oven" at 500 degrees? And you can't leave
the door open. My old Dacor recommended broiling with the door
open. For the few times I use the Whirlpool for top brown broiling
( use a gas grill for hunks of meat), I leave the door open and put
a magnet on the latch to trick it into leaving the power on. That
works for me. Sorry for the rant and partial hijack of the "Subject".

On 2/14/2011 9:09 AM, wrote:
On 2/13/2011 11:36 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 2/13/2011 10:27 PM, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

Don't the newer digital readout stoves indicate oven temperature? I've
never owned one but it only seems to be a logical feature to include.

TDD

We had a fairly new GE wall oven with digital therm. It was about 25
degrees off....there is a calibration maneuver, but with frequent power
outages it was a pain to reset the stupid thing. The engineers who
design appliances nowadays are doofusses who have never used a home
appliance. My Kenmore washer, when set to "hot", squirts hot on and off
to "save" energy. We kept the hwh set to "very warm", so the hot that
the washer was trying to control wasn't really hot, but luke-warm.

Current washer has "auto fill", and apparently weighs the load to
determine water level. If you open the lid at any point during the
cycle, it will automatically fill up to max level. Stupid, stupid, stupid!

It's those doofus engineers who have a special degree from Doofus U. :-)

TDD

On Feb 14, 10:03*am, "
wrote:
clipped



BTW, why is called pre-heating? pre means before. We're not doing
anything "before" heating the oven, we're just *heating* the oven as
soon as we turn it on.

Bringing the oven up to temp before putting the food in the oven.

I know what the term is used for but think about the term itself.

The prefix "Pre" means "means earlier or before" therefore pre-heating
means "before heating".

Based on that, I'd wager that the vast majority of the ovens in the
world are in a "pre-heating" state right now - if they are not heating
at this time but will eventually be, then they are in a "before
heating" or pre-heating state.

As soon as we turn our ovens on, they enter the "heating" stage, not
the pre-heating stage.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 14, 10:03 am, "
wrote:
clipped



BTW, why is called pre-heating? pre means before. We're not doing
anything "before" heating the oven, we're just *heating* the oven as
soon as we turn it on.

Bringing the oven up to temp before putting the food in the oven.

I know what the term is used for but think about the term itself.

The prefix "Pre" means "means earlier or before" therefore pre-heating
means "before heating".

Based on that, I'd wager that the vast majority of the ovens in the
world are in a "pre-heating" state right now - if they are not heating
at this time but will eventually be, then they are in a "before
heating" or pre-heating state.

As soon as we turn our ovens on, they enter the "heating" stage, not
the pre-heating stage.

what would you call the process then: pre-putting-food-in, or ppfi for
short?

On Feb 13, 10:27*pm, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. *I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. *Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?

You set the temp, thats you gauge, but buying an additional
thermometer is a good idea

On Feb 14, 1:38*pm, "chaniarts" wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 14, 10:03 am, "
wrote:
clipped

BTW, why is called pre-heating? pre means before. We're not doing
anything "before" heating the oven, we're just *heating* the oven as
soon as we turn it on.

Bringing the oven up to temp before putting the food in the oven.

I know what the term is used for but think about the term itself.

The prefix "Pre" means "means earlier or before" therefore pre-heating
means "before heating".

Based on that, I'd wager that the vast majority of the ovens in the
world are in a "pre-heating" state right now - if they are not heating
at this time but will eventually be, then they are in a "before
heating" or pre-heating state.

As soon as we turn our ovens on, they enter the "heating" stage, *not
the pre-heating stage.

what would you call the process then: pre-putting-food-in, or ppfi for
short?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"what would you call the process then?"

On

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 14, 2:33 am, Sjouke Burry
wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 14, 12:41 am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:27 pm, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?
My Mom's electric stove has both a readout for the "set" temperature
and the actual temperature, at least while the oven is heating up. In
other words, you spin the knob to set the digital readout to 350 and
you can watch a smaller number in the corner of the display climb
towards 350.
To be honest, I don't recall if the "actual" temperature readout
varies during the cooking and since she lives 300 miles away, I can't
check tonight. :-)
My gas oven has a readout only for what it's set for. It reads "Pre"
while it's warming up, but when it reaches the set point it beeps and
displays the set point until the oven is turned off.
My 2 yr. old Bosch gas range displays the so-called actual temp during
oven warmup also, but I don't think it's accurate. After warmup, that
display goes out and all I see is the setpoint. Obviously the temp in an
oven is being monitored, but if the monitoring device isn't accurate
then it isn't accurate. I'm pretty sure mine is ~20 degrees F low.
Excursions from setpoint aren't that important to me; there has to be
some hysteresis built into the control algorithm and I trust the
engineers on that count.
You may trust your engineers, but I don't trust mine.
Even when monitoring the actual temperature with an internal "shelf"
thermometer, and seeing it read exactly what the set-point says,
everything - and I mean *everything* - takes longer to cook than the
recipe - *any* recipe - says it should.
One day I'll actually remember to bring home an oven thermometer to
check my oven. I'd assumed that it was running low, just because
everything takes longer to cook, but maybe something else is going on.
I've been satisfied with putting the setpoint 20-25 higher than called
for.
In a lot of cases it is (silently)assumed that the oven is pre-heated
to the proper temperature, and ingredients at room temperature.

Both of those can influence cooking/broiling/frying times quite a lot.

In my case, pre-heating is always done unless called for otherwise in
the recipe.

Room temperature of the food doesn't matter. Breads, cake batter,
marinated meats brought up to room temperature all take longer than
written. (Bringing marinated meats up to room temperature helps the
meat draw the marinate deeper into the meat)

BTW, why is called pre-heating? pre means before. We're not doing
anything "before" heating the oven, we're just *heating* the oven as
soon as we turn it on.
Yeah... But before you put the turky in it.

On Feb 14, 4:38*pm, Sjouke Burry
wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 14, 2:33 am, Sjouke Burry
wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
*DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 14, 12:41 am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
*DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Feb 13, 11:27 pm, Van wrote:
I mean the average residential oven. *I've never seen one with a temp
gauge. *Is it because the oven manufacturers don't want you to know
how inaccurate their ovens are compared with the setting on the knob?
My Mom's electric stove has both a readout for the "set" temperature
and the actual temperature, at least while the oven is heating up. In
other words, you spin the knob to set the digital readout to 350 and
you can watch a smaller number in the corner of the display climb
towards 350.
To be honest, I don't recall if the "actual" temperature readout
varies during the cooking and since she lives 300 miles away, I can't
check tonight. :-)
My gas oven has a readout only for what it's set for. It reads "Pre"
while it's warming up, but when it reaches the set point it beeps and
displays the set point until the oven is turned off.
My 2 yr. old Bosch gas range displays the so-called actual temp during
oven warmup also, but I don't think it's accurate. After warmup, that
display goes out and all I see is the setpoint. Obviously the temp in an
oven is being monitored, but if the monitoring device isn't accurate
then it isn't accurate. I'm pretty sure mine is ~20 degrees F low.
Excursions from setpoint aren't that important to me; there has to be
some hysteresis built into the control algorithm and I trust the
engineers on that count.
You may trust your engineers, but I don't trust mine.
Even when monitoring the actual temperature with an internal "shelf"
thermometer, and seeing it read exactly what the set-point says,
everything - and I mean *everything* - takes longer to cook than the
recipe - *any* recipe - says it should.
One day I'll actually remember to bring home an oven thermometer to
check my oven. I'd assumed that it was running low, just because
everything takes longer to cook, but maybe something else is going on..
I've been satisfied with putting the setpoint 20-25 higher than called
for.
In a lot of cases it is (silently)assumed that the oven is pre-heated
to the proper temperature, and ingredients at room temperature.

Both of those can influence cooking/broiling/frying times quite a lot.

In my case, pre-heating is always done unless called for otherwise in
the recipe.

Room temperature of the food doesn't matter. Breads, cake batter,
marinated meats brought up to room temperature all take longer than
written. (Bringing marinated meats up to room temperature helps the
meat draw the marinate deeper into the meat)

BTW, why is called pre-heating? pre means before. We're not doing
anything "before" heating the oven, we're just *heating* the oven as
soon as we turn it on.

Yeah... But before you put the turky in it.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So call it pre-turkey, not pre-heating.

When the water heater tries to get the water up to 120 degrees, it is
"pre-heating" it before it reaches 120 or is it heating it to 120
degrees?

When my furnace is heating the air to warm the house, does it pre-heat
the air or does it simply heat it?

Why don't they just say "heat the oven to 375 degrees"?