A while back I posted my problem with the dishwasher and received many
good tips. Thank you all. My wife especially wanted me to thank those
who suggested adding TSP to the new "imprived" dishwashing detergent.
Half a tablespoon works wonders.

By strange coincidence, the cover story of the January 31 issue of the
"Weekly Standard" was "Why Your Dishwasher Doesn't Work Anymore."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articl...ns_536862.html

Paul

On Feb 9, 8:49*am, Pavel314 wrote:
A while back I posted my problem with the dishwasher and received many
good tips. Thank you all. My wife especially wanted me to thank those
who suggested adding TSP to the new "imprived" dishwashing detergent.
Half a tablespoon works wonders.

By strange coincidence, the cover story of the January 31 issue of the
"Weekly Standard" was "Why Your Dishwasher Doesn't Work Anymore."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articl...-greens_536862....

Paul

well this explains why my dishwasher hasnt been working well for a
long time. i am using 3 times the detergent, upped the water heaters
temperature, and will be buying some TSP from the hardware store
today......

thanks for the heads up.

i will run a couple empty loads rich in tsp since i noticed the inside
of the machine is dirty gritty.....

" wrote in news:ec1e8156-0e0f-4247-b82b-
:



i will run a couple empty loads rich in tsp since i noticed the inside
of the machine is dirty gritty.....




TSP contains phosphate, exactly the substance which was recently removed
from dishwasher detergent...


--
Tegger

Tegger wrote:

" wrote in news:ec1e8156-0e0f-4247-b82b-
:


i will run a couple empty loads rich in tsp since i noticed the inside
of the machine is dirty gritty.....



TSP contains phosphate, exactly the substance which was recently removed
from dishwasher detergent...

Phosphates were removed from detergents years ago when they were linked
to algae bloom issues on rivers in the vicinity of sewage treatment
outlets. A load or two in a single dishwasher won't hurt anything.

On Feb 9, 9:43*am, " wrote:
On Feb 9, 8:49*am, Pavel314 wrote:

A while back I posted my problem with the dishwasher and received many
good tips. Thank you all. My wife especially wanted me to thank those
who suggested adding TSP to the new "imprived" dishwashing detergent.
Half a tablespoon works wonders.

By strange coincidence, the cover story of the January 31 issue of the
"Weekly Standard" was "Why Your Dishwasher Doesn't Work Anymore."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articl...-greens_536862....

Paul

well this explains why my dishwasher hasnt been working well for a
long time. i am using 3 times the detergent, upped the water heaters
temperature, and will be buying some TSP from the hardware store
today......

thanks for the heads up.

i will run a couple empty loads rich in tsp since i noticed the inside
of the machine is dirty gritty.....

If you want to clean the machine, just pour in a bottle of vinegar and
run an empty cycle, another tip in response to my earlier poblem. My
wife did that and it worked great. You can also find stuff at the
store to clean it out.

Paul

On Wed, 09 Feb 2011 09:32:51 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Tegger wrote:

" wrote in news:ec1e8156-0e0f-4247-b82b-
:


i will run a couple empty loads rich in tsp since i noticed the inside
of the machine is dirty gritty.....



TSP contains phosphate, exactly the substance which was recently removed
from dishwasher detergent...

Phosphates were removed from detergents years ago when they were linked
to algae bloom issues on rivers in the vicinity of sewage treatment
outlets. A load or two in a single dishwasher won't hurt anything.

hehe. Guy at work got me involved in Amway in the early '70's
Didn't last long.
Anyway, they had just banned phosphates in laundry detergent then, but
Amway still had one with phosphates.
Can't remember the details, but this guy thought Amway was real slick
in how they got around it.
Seems the soap companies found a substitute to get clothes clean.
They'll probably find one for dishwasher soap too.

--Vic

"Pete C." wrote in
ster.com:


Tegger wrote:

" wrote in
news:ec1e8156-0e0f-4247-b82b-
:


i will run a couple empty loads rich in tsp since i noticed the
inside of the machine is dirty gritty.....



TSP contains phosphate, exactly the substance which was recently
removed from dishwasher detergent...

Phosphates were removed from detergents years ago when they were
linked to algae bloom



That was laundry detergent. It's my understanding that phosphates were
still used in dishwasher detergents until very recently.



--
Tegger

Pavel314 wrote:
A while back I posted my problem with the dishwasher and received many
good tips. Thank you all. My wife especially wanted me to thank those
who suggested adding TSP to the new "imprived" dishwashing detergent.
Half a tablespoon works wonders.

By strange coincidence, the cover story of the January 31 issue of the
"Weekly Standard" was "Why Your Dishwasher Doesn't Work Anymore."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articl...ns_536862.html

Paul

Consumer Reports (Sept 2010) ran a comparison of the new dishwasher
detergents. The Weekly Standard article quotes Consumer Reports that
none were as good as one previous detergent, but neglects to mention
that 7 were rated "very good". You might want to look at the review.
There are still products out there that work.

As the article said, phosphates were limited in laundry detergents over
15 years ago.

The Weekly standard article also says the government will "outlaw
incandescent bulbs in a few years", which has often been debunked by Don
Klipstein in this newsgroup. A few very common wattages are banned, but
even for those there are holes.

--
bud--

Where do you find the true TSP? I looked at my local building products
store and they have TSP but it list on the package Phosphate free.
--


"Pavel314" wrote in message
...
A while back I posted my problem with the dishwasher and received many
good tips. Thank you all. My wife especially wanted me to thank those
who suggested adding TSP to the new "imprived" dishwashing detergent.
Half a tablespoon works wonders.

By strange coincidence, the cover story of the January 31 issue of the
"Weekly Standard" was "Why Your Dishwasher Doesn't Work Anymore."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articl...ns_536862.html

Paul

Right next to the pseudophedrine free Sudafed? I think some
tortured and twisted product names are a crime against
humanity.

Phosphate free TSP? My word!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tom Mills" wrote in message
...

Where do you find the true TSP? I looked at my local
building products
store and they have TSP but it list on the package Phosphate
free.
--

On Feb 9, 11:33*am, "Tom Mills" wrote:
Where do you find the true TSP? *I looked at my local building products
store and they have TSP but it list on the package Phosphate free.
--


I got a box at our local, old-fashioned hardware store. Pure tri-
sodium phosphate. I googled "phosphate free TSP" and learned the
following:

"The phosphate-free formulation contains sodium metasilicates."

It goes on to describe how toxic and dangerous this replacement
chemical is.

Paul

"Pavel314" wrote in message
...
A while back I posted my problem with the dishwasher and received many
good tips. Thank you all. My wife especially wanted me to thank those
who suggested adding TSP to the new "imprived" dishwashing detergent.
Half a tablespoon works wonders.

By strange coincidence, the cover story of the January 31 issue of the
"Weekly Standard" was "Why Your Dishwasher Doesn't Work Anymore."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articl...ns_536862.html

Paul

The DW detergent we use reads on the box contentsSodium carbonate, Sodium
silicate and enzymes. NO phosphates. We have the water from hell. Very
hard, runs about 480 parts per million. Destroys faucets and water heater
systems. However, dishwasher 14 years old and spotless clean as when new.
Gets used about 12 times a week. WW

If it is toxic and dangerous it may work!! If it said "biodegradable or
safe for the environment" it would not clean.

--


"Pavel314" wrote in message
...
On Feb 9, 11:33 am, "Tom Mills" wrote:
Where do you find the true TSP? I looked at my local building products
store and they have TSP but it list on the package Phosphate free.
--


I got a box at our local, old-fashioned hardware store. Pure tri-
sodium phosphate. I googled "phosphate free TSP" and learned the
following:

"The phosphate-free formulation contains sodium metasilicates."

It goes on to describe how toxic and dangerous this replacement
chemical is.

Paul

I found some Bactine first aid spray in the stores, about
1978. New and improved stuff came in. Reading the label, new
and improved was minus two ingredients.

Environmentally friendly = costs more, and doesn't work very
well at all.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tom Mills" wrote in message
...
If it is toxic and dangerous it may work!! If it said
"biodegradable or
safe for the environment" it would not clean.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:iiuj6d
:

Right next to the pseudophedrine free Sudafed? I think some
tortured and twisted product names are a crime against
humanity.

Phosphate free TSP? My word!




Imagine...

Breakfast-cereal-free breakfast cereal.

Milk-free milk.

Peanut-free peanuts.


--
Tegger

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:iiv2ee
:

I found some Bactine first aid spray in the stores, about
1978. New and improved stuff came in. Reading the label, new
and improved was minus two ingredients.

Environmentally friendly = costs more, and doesn't work very
well at all.



A general rule:
If it's expensive, inconvenient, and ineffective, it's "green".

Such is progress.


--
Tegger

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:44:41 +0000 (UTC), Tegger
wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:iiuj6d
:

Right next to the pseudophedrine free Sudafed? I think some
tortured and twisted product names are a crime against
humanity.

Phosphate free TSP? My word!




Imagine...

Breakfast-cereal-free breakfast cereal.

Milk-free milk.

Peanut-free peanuts.

You forgot the worst.
Lite beer.

--Vic

Vic Smith wrote in
:



You forgot the worst.
Lite beer.



Don't frighten me so.



--
Tegger

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 00:44:41 +0000 (UTC), Tegger wrote:

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:iiuj6d
:

Right next to the pseudophedrine free Sudafed? I think some
tortured and twisted product names are a crime against
humanity.

Phosphate free TSP? My word!




Imagine...

Breakfast-cereal-free breakfast cereal.

Milk-free milk.

Peanut-free peanuts.

Freeze-dried water.

Tax free politicians? Naah, never happen.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tegger" wrote in message
...

Imagine...

Breakfast-cereal-free breakfast cereal.

Milk-free milk.

Peanut-free peanuts.


--
Tegger

Highy taxxed, and popular with yuppies?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Tegger" wrote in message
...

A general rule:
If it's expensive, inconvenient, and ineffective, it's
"green".

Such is progress.


--
Tegger

On the shelf next to sodium free, calorie free bottled
water? Only five bucks a galon, such a deal!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Vic Smith" wrote in
message ...

You forgot the worst.
Lite beer.

--Vic

On 2/10/2011 8:11 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On the shelf next to sodium free, calorie free bottled
water? Only five bucks a galon, such a deal!


I prefer low cholesterol gasoline. :-)

TDD

Less heart burn?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas" wrote in
message ...
On 2/10/2011 8:11 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On the shelf next to sodium free, calorie free bottled
water? Only five bucks a galon, such a deal!


I prefer low cholesterol gasoline. :-)

TDD

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 09:11:13 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

On the shelf next to sodium free, calorie free bottled
water? Only five bucks a galon, such a deal!

Only water I ever bought in my life was in Gila Bend Arizona.
Took my wife and kids on a big driving trip in the van and
we spent a night there in a motel cooled by swamp coolers.
First I ever saw.
I was checking out the swamp coolers when my wife started
yelling from the shower.
"They got the valves on backward!"
I went to check that out.
"The cold water is hot!"
But the valves were ok.
The cold water was hot. Just how it is there.
Real nasty water it was too, full of, I don't know, sulphur?
Seeing I'd blown a little water out the radiator in the desert the day
before, I wanted to top up the overflow tank, but I didn't like the
looks of the free water there.
Bought a gallon of bottled water in a grocery store.
When I was paying the cashier, I said to her,
"You got some scary water here. Never bought water before."
She said, "I been drinking it 40 years and I feel just fine."
I said, "But I'm worried about my van radiator."
She wasn't amused.

--Vic

I have a load of dishes with added TSP running right now in my
dishwasher.

I had been adding more and more dish detergent to try and compensate
for its poor cleaning.

the dishwasher detergent companies may like the new law.........

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 14:34:43 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

I have a load of dishes with added TSP running right now in my
dishwasher.

I had been adding more and more dish detergent to try and compensate
for its poor cleaning.

the dishwasher detergent companies may like the new law.........

Does it have phosphate or is it the substitute?

On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 11:33:58 -0500, "Tom Mills"
wrote:

Where do you find the true TSP? I looked at my local building products
store and they have TSP but it list on the package Phosphate free.


Lowes or BORG?

The DAP product in the red bag, not the green bag

MSDS:

http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?BrandID=90&SubcatID=17

"Tom Mills" wrote in message
...

Where do you find the true TSP? I looked at my local building products
store and they have TSP but it list on the package Phosphate free.
--

Where I live, I can by true TSP Trisodium Phosphate at Home Depot, in the
paint department, next to solvents such as Acetone, Xylene, etc.

It comes in a small box and looks like this:

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/pro...?SKU=998007334

On Feb 10, 6:03*pm, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 14:34:43 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
I have a load of dishes with added TSP running right now in my
dishwasher.

I had been adding more and more dish detergent to try and compensate
for its poor cleaning.

the dishwasher detergent companies may like the new law.........

Does it have phosphate or is it the substitute?

the real TSP.

They had the substitute, now that would of been a waste of effort.....

my dishwasher is encrusted with gritty a gritty substance inside, I
hope this cleans not only the dishes but the machine too!

I was beginning to feel like I was putting my dishes in the trashcan
to get washed

" wrote:

I have a load of dishes with added TSP running right now in my
dishwasher.

I had been adding more and more dish detergent to try and compensate
for its poor cleaning.

the dishwasher detergent companies may like the new law.........


I think someone posted this link, but if you haven't read it yet, this article
is excellent at explaining what happened:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articl...ns_536862.html

If you are interested in the chemistry and also why this wasn't any surprise,
this article from Chemical & Engineering News is also excellent:

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/coverstory/89/8904cover.html

" wrote:

my dishwasher is encrusted with gritty a gritty substance inside, I
hope this cleans not only the dishes but the machine too!

If it doesn't, you'll need to clean the interior with vinegar (a mild acid), or
that doesn't work, a dilute CLR solution.

BTW - If you read the links provided in another post, you'll discover that the
gel detergents without phosphates perform much worse than the dry detergents.

Oren wrote:


The DAP product in the red bag, not the green bag

Or Savogran TSP in the red box, not the worthless substitute stuff in the green
box.

I'm looking for a source for a 55 gallon drum of dry food grade TSP cause you
know the busybodies are going to try to get TSP banned next, at least at the
retail level.

It's turkey. Not real TSP. "Made with turkey, and other
meats".

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Oren" wrote in message
...

I have a load of dishes with added TSP running right now in
my
dishwasher.


Does it have phosphate or is it the substitute?

On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 15:47:33 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Feb 10, 6:03*pm, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 14:34:43 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
I have a load of dishes with added TSP running right now in my
dishwasher.

I had been adding more and more dish detergent to try and compensate
for its poor cleaning.

the dishwasher detergent companies may like the new law.........

Does it have phosphate or is it the substitute?

the real TSP.

They had the substitute, now that would of been a waste of effort.....

my dishwasher is encrusted with gritty a gritty substance inside, I
hope this cleans not only the dishes but the machine too!

I was beginning to feel like I was putting my dishes in the trashcan
to get washed

What's the verdict? Did it clean the machine?

On Feb 10, 10:14*pm, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 15:47:33 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Feb 10, 6:03*pm, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 10 Feb 2011 14:34:43 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
I have a load of dishes with added TSP running right now in my
dishwasher.

I had been adding more and more dish detergent to try and compensate
for its poor cleaning.

the dishwasher detergent companies may like the new law.........

Does it have phosphate or is it the substitute?

the real TSP.

They had the substitute, now that would of been a waste of effort.....

my dishwasher is encrusted with gritty a gritty substance inside, I
hope this cleans not only the dishes but the machine too!

I was beginning to feel like I was putting my dishes in the trashcan
to get washed

What's the verdict? *Did it clean the machine?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

YES, not only were the dishes clean but so was the interior of the
machine
I justt got home and will recommend this to everyone.

its amazing nearly all the grit is gone.

I am running a second load of dishes & TSP as I type.

many of the dishes from the last load had been run before and were
still dirty.

thus the additional load.......

In article ,
"WW" wrote:

"Pavel314" wrote in message
...
A while back I posted my problem with the dishwasher and received many
good tips. Thank you all. My wife especially wanted me to thank those
who suggested adding TSP to the new "imprived" dishwashing detergent.
Half a tablespoon works wonders.

By strange coincidence, the cover story of the January 31 issue of the
"Weekly Standard" was "Why Your Dishwasher Doesn't Work Anymore."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articl...ns_536862.html

Paul

The DW detergent we use reads on the box contentsSodium carbonate, Sodium
silicate and enzymes. NO phosphates. We have the water from hell. Very
hard, runs about 480 parts per million. Destroys faucets and water heater
systems. However, dishwasher 14 years old and spotless clean as when new.
Gets used about 12 times a week. WW

Well, spit it out, what brand is it?

On Feb 11, 12:02*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,





*"WW" wrote:
"Pavel314" wrote in message
...
A while back I posted my problem with the dishwasher and received many
good tips. Thank you all. My wife especially wanted me to thank those
who suggested adding TSP to the new "imprived" dishwashing detergent.
Half a tablespoon works wonders.

By strange coincidence, the cover story of the January 31 issue of the
"Weekly Standard" was "Why Your Dishwasher Doesn't Work Anymore."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/articl...-greens_536862.....

Paul

The DW detergent we use reads on the box contentsSodium carbonate, *Sodium
silicate and enzymes. *NO phosphates. We have the water from hell. Very
hard, runs about 480 parts per million. Destroys faucets and water heater
systems. However, dishwasher 14 years old and spotless clean as when new.
Gets used about 12 times a week. *WW

Well, spit it out, what brand is it?-detergent was cascade. TSP savogran ( never heard of that brand of anything before)

bought at local hardware store

RogerT wrote:
"Tom Mills" wrote in message
...

Where do you find the true TSP? I looked at my local building
products store and they have TSP but it list on the package
Phosphate free. --

Where I live, I can by true TSP Trisodium Phosphate at Home Depot, in
the paint department, next to solvents such as Acetone, Xylene, etc.

It comes in a small box and looks like this:

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/pro...?SKU=998007334

At about $2.50 for a one-pound box, that should be sufficient for more than
100 dishwasher loads (at 1 tsp per load).

Thanks for the field report. Always nice to know when
something actually works.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...


What's the verdict? Did it clean the machine?- Hide quoted
text -

- Show quoted text -

YES, not only were the dishes clean but so was the interior
of the
machine
I justt got home and will recommend this to everyone.

its amazing nearly all the grit is gone.

I am running a second load of dishes & TSP as I type.

many of the dishes from the last load had been run before
and were
still dirty.

thus the additional load.......