This is to wish all the good people on this NG Happy Holidays and a
New Year of peace, health and prosperity.

At this holiday seasons, let us share our blessings with poor Bradley
Manning, who is still in a Navy brig under inhuman -- read: "torture"
conditions. He needs to hear from us. That our government can be so
spiteful and do illegal things to people is no news, but what they're
doing to this kid is beyond all limits. We must stand up for the rule
of law!

He is being kept -- falsely -- under a "Prevention of Injury" rule.
He is not a dangerous to himself; that is a slimy pretext. He can't
get a night's sleep; they wake him every 5 minutes. He has NO
exercise time. No pillow, no blanket. In solitary for the last few
months. Cannot receive visitors. Has no reading matter. He is
deteriorating mentally and physically. The govt's objective is to
break him so he will turn on WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

Please go to freebradleymanning.org and add your support.

****Not because you agree or disagree with WikiLeaks and Bradley
Manning.**** That's not the point.

But because what is being done to this boy by our government is
ILLEGAL. Our silence is complicity. What if it was your son?

Thank you for acting!

HP

HP

On 12/24/2010 4:36 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
This is to wish all the good people on this NG Happy Holidays and a
New Year of peace, health and prosperity.

At this holiday seasons, let us share our blessings with poor Bradley
Manning, who is still in a Navy brig under inhuman -- read: "torture"
conditions. He needs to hear from us. That our government can be so
spiteful and do illegal things to people is no news, but what they're
doing to this kid is beyond all limits. We must stand up for the rule
of law!

He is being kept -- falsely -- under a "Prevention of Injury" rule.
He is not a dangerous to himself; that is a slimy pretext. He can't
get a night's sleep; they wake him every 5 minutes. He has NO
exercise time. No pillow, no blanket. In solitary for the last few
months. Cannot receive visitors. Has no reading matter. He is
deteriorating mentally and physically. The govt's objective is to
break him so he will turn on WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

Please go tofreebradleymanning.org and add your support.

****Not because you agree or disagree with WikiLeaks and Bradley
Manning.**** That's not the point.

But because what is being done to this boy by our government is
ILLEGAL. Our silence is complicity. What if it was your son?

Thank you for acting!

HP

I totally agree with you that Bradly Manning should not be tortured and
kept confined in inhumane conditions. The only humane thing to do, is to
go ahead and execute him for treason as soon as possible.

TDD

On Dec 24, 2:36*pm, Higgs Boson wrote:
This is to wish all the good people on this NG Happy Holidays and a
New Year of peace, health and prosperity.

At this holiday seasons, let us share our blessings with poor Bradley
Manning, who is still in a Navy brig under inhuman -- read: "torture"
conditions. *He needs to hear from us. *That our government can be so
spiteful and do illegal things to people is no news, but what they're
doing to this kid is beyond all limits. *We must stand up for the rule
of law!

He is being kept -- falsely -- under a "Prevention of Injury" rule.
He is not a dangerous to himself; that is a slimy pretext. *He can't
get a night's sleep; they wake him every 5 minutes. *He has NO
exercise time. *No pillow, no blanket. *In solitary for the last few
months. *Cannot receive visitors. Has no reading matter. *He is
deteriorating mentally and physically. *The govt's objective is *to
break him so he will turn on WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

Please go to freebradleymanning.org and add your support.

****Not because you agree or disagree with WikiLeaks and Bradley
Manning.**** *That's not the point.

But because what is being done to this boy by our government *is
ILLEGAL. *Our silence is complicity. *What if it was your son?

Thank you for acting!

HP

HP

They should put the officer(s) that were in charge of him in the same
brig.

On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 14:36:15 -0800 (PST), Higgs Boson
wrote:


Quit your friggin' whining!

You don't know squat about his confinement conditions....

On Dec 24, 3:43*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 12/24/2010 4:36 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:



This is to wish all the good people on this NG Happy Holidays and a
New Year of peace, health and prosperity.

At this holiday seasons, let us share our blessings with poor Bradley
Manning, who is still in a Navy brig under inhuman -- read: "torture"
conditions. *He needs to hear from us. *That our government can be so
spiteful and do illegal things to people is no news, but what they're
doing to this kid is beyond all limits. *We must stand up for the rule
of law!

He is being kept -- falsely -- under a "Prevention of Injury" rule.
He is not a dangerous to himself; that is a slimy pretext. *He can't
get a night's sleep; they wake him every 5 minutes. *He has NO
exercise time. *No pillow, no blanket. *In solitary for the last few
months. *Cannot receive visitors. Has no reading matter. *He is
deteriorating mentally and physically. *The govt's objective is *to
break him so he will turn on WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

Please go tofreebradleymanning.org *and add your support.

****Not because you agree or disagree with WikiLeaks and Bradley
Manning.**** *That's not the point.

But because what is being done to this boy by our government *is
ILLEGAL. *Our silence is complicity. *What if it was your son?

Thank you for acting!

HP

I totally agree with you that Bradly Manning should not be tortured and
kept confined in inhumane conditions. The only humane thing to do, is to
go ahead and execute him for treason as soon as possible.

TDD

He didn't commit treason.

On Dec 24, 4:22*pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 14:36:15 -0800 (PST), Higgs Boson

wrote:

Quit your friggin' whining!

You don't know squat about his confinement conditions....

But the eyewitness who posts on the Web site does.

?
"Higgs Boson" wrote
Please go to freebradleymanning.org and add your support.

****Not because you agree or disagree with WikiLeaks and Bradley
Manning.**** That's not the point.

But because what is being done to this boy by our government is
ILLEGAL. Our silence is complicity. What if it was your son?

Thank you for acting!

Seems as though the boy did something wrong and he is being punished for it.
If prison was tougher, people would be less inclined to break the law. . He
does have limited TV viewing. Considering some of the shows on TV these
days, maybe that is cruel.

On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 17:06:53 -0800 (PST), Higgs Boson
wrote:

On Dec 24, 4:22*pm, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 14:36:15 -0800 (PST), Higgs Boson

wrote:

Quit your friggin' whining!

You don't know squat about his confinement conditions....

But the eyewitness who posts on the Web site does.

You said he didn't get visitors. Is this "eyewitness" one of those
rich white Hollywood tofu fartin' fairies?

And just how did this creature get into the controlled area to witness
all this torture and unpleasantness?

"Higgs Boson" wrote in message
...

bull**** snipped.


The govt's objective is to
break him so he will turn on WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.


more bull**** snipped

And what is so wrong with that. His best hope for any leniency is to roll
over and relax.

The Boy was not in the girl scouts. He was in the military and will most
likely spend a lot time regretting his actions over the next 30-40 years in
the brig.

I don't think you will find much sympathy in this group.

On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 20:37:53 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski"
wrote:

Seems as though the boy did something wrong and he is being punished for it.

He is only charged right now. Punishment comes when and if he is
convicted. See box 8

Here is his _Charge Sheet_

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/pfc...arge-sheet.htm

Full *.pdf file

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/ima...ey-manning.pdf

If he gets life in Leavenworth, chances are he will be farmed out to
the federal system for the duration of his sentence. Super Max is
built in a mountain side. A cave so to speak.

If prison was tougher, people would be less inclined to break the law. . He
does have limited TV viewing. Considering some of the shows on TV these
days, maybe that is cruel.

On 12/24/2010 7:06 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Dec 24, 3:43 pm, The Daring
wrote:
On 12/24/2010 4:36 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:



This is to wish all the good people on this NG Happy Holidays and a
New Year of peace, health and prosperity.

At this holiday seasons, let us share our blessings with poor Bradley
Manning, who is still in a Navy brig under inhuman -- read: "torture"
conditions. He needs to hear from us. That our government can be so
spiteful and do illegal things to people is no news, but what they're
doing to this kid is beyond all limits. We must stand up for the rule
of law!

He is being kept -- falsely -- under a "Prevention of Injury" rule.
He is not a dangerous to himself; that is a slimy pretext. He can't
get a night's sleep; they wake him every 5 minutes. He has NO
exercise time. No pillow, no blanket. In solitary for the last few
months. Cannot receive visitors. Has no reading matter. He is
deteriorating mentally and physically. The govt's objective is to
break him so he will turn on WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

Please go tofreebradleymanning.org and add your support.

****Not because you agree or disagree with WikiLeaks and Bradley
Manning.**** That's not the point.

But because what is being done to this boy by our government is
ILLEGAL. Our silence is complicity. What if it was your son?

Thank you for acting!

HP

I totally agree with you that Bradly Manning should not be tortured and
kept confined in inhumane conditions. The only humane thing to do, is to
go ahead and execute him for treason as soon as possible.

TDD

He didn't commit treason.


You are referring to the soldier who removed classified material from
his workplace and gave it to WikiLeaks?

TDD

On 12/24/2010 4:36 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
This is to wish all the good people on this NG Happy Holidays and a
New Year of peace, health and prosperity.

At this holiday seasons, let us share our blessings with poor Bradley
Manning, who is still in a Navy brig under inhuman -- read: "torture"
conditions. He needs to hear from us. That our government can be so
spiteful and do illegal things to people is no news, but what they're
doing to this kid is beyond all limits. We must stand up for the rule
of law!

He is being kept -- falsely -- under a "Prevention of Injury" rule.
He is not a dangerous to himself; that is a slimy pretext. He can't
get a night's sleep; they wake him every 5 minutes. He has NO
exercise time. No pillow, no blanket. In solitary for the last few
months. Cannot receive visitors. Has no reading matter. He is
deteriorating mentally and physically. The govt's objective is to
break him so he will turn on WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

Please go tofreebradleymanning.org and add your support.

****Not because you agree or disagree with WikiLeaks and Bradley
Manning.**** That's not the point.

But because what is being done to this boy by our government is
ILLEGAL. Our silence is complicity. What if it was your son?

Thank you for acting!

HP

HP

Amen, bro.

On 12/24/2010 5:43 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/24/2010 4:36 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

I totally agree with you that Bradly Manning should not be tortured and
kept confined in inhumane conditions. The only humane thing to do, is to
go ahead and execute him for treason as soon as possible.

I know it'd be a bother, but don't you think we ought to convict him of
something first?

On 12/24/2010 6:22 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 14:36:15 -0800 (PST), Higgs Boson
wrote:


Quit your friggin' whining!

You don't know squat about his confinement conditions....

And you do? Could you elucidate?

On 12/24/2010 7:37 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
?
"Higgs Boson" wrote
Please go to freebradleymanning.org and add your support.

****Not because you agree or disagree with WikiLeaks and Bradley
Manning.**** That's not the point.

But because what is being done to this boy by our government is
ILLEGAL. Our silence is complicity. What if it was your son?

Thank you for acting!

Seems as though the boy did something wrong and he is being punished for
it. If prison was tougher, people would be less inclined to break the
law. . He does have limited TV viewing. Considering some of the shows on
TV these days, maybe that is cruel.

As I understand it, we're talking about someone who hasn't been
convicted of anything. So how do you know he did anything wrong?

Should we just throw everybody into cruel prison and see who survives?

On 12/24/2010 11:07 PM, Patrick Karl wrote:
On 12/24/2010 5:43 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/24/2010 4:36 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

I totally agree with you that Bradly Manning should not be tortured and
kept confined in inhumane conditions. The only humane thing to do, is to
go ahead and execute him for treason as soon as possible.

I know it'd be a bother, but don't you think we ought to convict him of
something first?

Oh, I'm sorry, I "Left" that out. (no pun intended) :-)

TDD

On 12/24/2010 8:17 PM, Colbyt wrote:
"Higgs wrote in message
...

bull**** snipped.


The govt's objective is to
break him so he will turn on WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.


more bull**** snipped

And what is so wrong with that. His best hope for any leniency is to roll
over and relax.

The Boy was not in the girl scouts. He was in the military and will most
likely spend a lot time regretting his actions over the next 30-40 years in
the brig.

I don't think you will find much sympathy in this group.

What actions have he been convicted of?

On 12/24/2010 9:02 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/24/2010 7:06 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Dec 24, 3:43 pm, The Daring
wrote:
On 12/24/2010 4:36 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:



This is to wish all the good people on this NG Happy Holidays and a
New Year of peace, health and prosperity.

At this holiday seasons, let us share our blessings with poor Bradley
Manning, who is still in a Navy brig under inhuman -- read: "torture"
conditions. He needs to hear from us. That our government can be so
spiteful and do illegal things to people is no news, but what they're
doing to this kid is beyond all limits. We must stand up for the rule
of law!

He is being kept -- falsely -- under a "Prevention of Injury" rule.
He is not a dangerous to himself; that is a slimy pretext. He can't
get a night's sleep; they wake him every 5 minutes. He has NO
exercise time. No pillow, no blanket. In solitary for the last few
months. Cannot receive visitors. Has no reading matter. He is
deteriorating mentally and physically. The govt's objective is to
break him so he will turn on WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

Please go tofreebradleymanning.org and add your support.

****Not because you agree or disagree with WikiLeaks and Bradley
Manning.**** That's not the point.

But because what is being done to this boy by our government is
ILLEGAL. Our silence is complicity. What if it was your son?

Thank you for acting!

HP

I totally agree with you that Bradly Manning should not be tortured and
kept confined in inhumane conditions. The only humane thing to do, is to
go ahead and execute him for treason as soon as possible.

TDD

He didn't commit treason.


You are referring to the soldier who removed classified material from
his workplace and gave it to WikiLeaks?

TDD
Shoot first and ask questions later?

On 12/24/2010 11:11 PM, Patrick Karl wrote:
On 12/24/2010 7:37 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
?
"Higgs Boson" wrote
Please go to freebradleymanning.org and add your support.

****Not because you agree or disagree with WikiLeaks and Bradley
Manning.**** That's not the point.

But because what is being done to this boy by our government is
ILLEGAL. Our silence is complicity. What if it was your son?

Thank you for acting!

Seems as though the boy did something wrong and he is being punished for
it. If prison was tougher, people would be less inclined to break the
law. . He does have limited TV viewing. Considering some of the shows on
TV these days, maybe that is cruel.

As I understand it, we're talking about someone who hasn't been
convicted of anything. So how do you know he did anything wrong?

Should we just throw everybody into cruel prison and see who survives?

I can guarantee you that if were accused of a crime, I would be
imprisoned under less than ideal conditions even though I hadn't
been convicted of anything. :-)

TDD

On 12/24/2010 11:14 PM, Patrick Karl wrote:
On 12/24/2010 9:02 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/24/2010 7:06 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Dec 24, 3:43 pm, The Daring
wrote:
On 12/24/2010 4:36 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:



This is to wish all the good people on this NG Happy Holidays and a
New Year of peace, health and prosperity.

At this holiday seasons, let us share our blessings with poor Bradley
Manning, who is still in a Navy brig under inhuman -- read: "torture"
conditions. He needs to hear from us. That our government can be so
spiteful and do illegal things to people is no news, but what they're
doing to this kid is beyond all limits. We must stand up for the rule
of law!

He is being kept -- falsely -- under a "Prevention of Injury" rule.
He is not a dangerous to himself; that is a slimy pretext. He can't
get a night's sleep; they wake him every 5 minutes. He has NO
exercise time. No pillow, no blanket. In solitary for the last few
months. Cannot receive visitors. Has no reading matter. He is
deteriorating mentally and physically. The govt's objective is to
break him so he will turn on WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

Please go tofreebradleymanning.org and add your support.

****Not because you agree or disagree with WikiLeaks and Bradley
Manning.**** That's not the point.

But because what is being done to this boy by our government is
ILLEGAL. Our silence is complicity. What if it was your son?

Thank you for acting!

HP

I totally agree with you that Bradly Manning should not be tortured and
kept confined in inhumane conditions. The only humane thing to do,
is to
go ahead and execute him for treason as soon as possible.

TDD

He didn't commit treason.


You are referring to the soldier who removed classified material from
his workplace and gave it to WikiLeaks?

TDD
Shoot first and ask questions later?

What? You don't believe in deterrents or preventive measures.? :-)

TDD

?
"Patrick Karl" wrote

Seems as though the boy did something wrong and he is being punished for
it. If prison was tougher, people would be less inclined to break the
law. . He does have limited TV viewing. Considering some of the shows on
TV these days, maybe that is cruel.

As I understand it, we're talking about someone who hasn't been convicted
of anything. So how do you know he did anything wrong?

Should we just throw everybody into cruel prison and see who survives?

He'll have his day in court. Meantime, he is put away the same as thousands
of others have been. Don't like it? Change the system.

On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 23:08:31 -0600, Patrick Karl
wrote:

On 12/24/2010 6:22 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 14:36:15 -0800 (PST), Higgs Boson
wrote:


Quit your friggin' whining!

You don't know squat about his confinement conditions....

And you do? Could you elucidate?

Sure. I'm a retired Penologist. The guy is not being deprived of any
right. Show me if you know.

Next?!

On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 23:12:17 -0600, Patrick Karl
wrote:

I don't think you will find much sympathy in this group.

What actions have he been convicted of?

Singing to loud in Church? Talking out of school? Make one up...

In article ,
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:


Seems as though the boy did something wrong and he is being punished for it.
If prison was tougher, people would be less inclined to break the law. . He
does have limited TV viewing. Considering some of the shows on TV these
days, maybe that is cruel.

Making him watch TV would be cruel punishment. Given his probable
political outlook I'd sentence him to watching Fox News 24-7. For
others, MSNBC. (grin).

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

On Dec 24, 11:43*pm, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 12/24/2010 4:36 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:





This is to wish all the good people on this NG Happy Holidays and a
New Year of peace, health and prosperity.

At this holiday seasons, let us share our blessings with poor Bradley
Manning, who is still in a Navy brig under inhuman -- read: "torture"
conditions. *He needs to hear from us. *That our government can be so
spiteful and do illegal things to people is no news, but what they're
doing to this kid is beyond all limits. *We must stand up for the rule
of law!

He is being kept -- falsely -- under a "Prevention of Injury" rule.
He is not a dangerous to himself; that is a slimy pretext. *He can't
get a night's sleep; they wake him every 5 minutes. *He has NO
exercise time. *No pillow, no blanket. *In solitary for the last few
months. *Cannot receive visitors. Has no reading matter. *He is
deteriorating mentally and physically. *The govt's objective is *to
break him so he will turn on WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

Please go tofreebradleymanning.org *and add your support.

****Not because you agree or disagree with WikiLeaks and Bradley
Manning.**** *That's not the point.

But because what is being done to this boy by our government *is
ILLEGAL. *Our silence is complicity. *What if it was your son?

Thank you for acting!

HP

I totally agree with you that Bradly Manning should not be tortured and
kept confined in inhumane conditions. The only humane thing to do, is to
go ahead and execute him for treason as soon as possible.

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Maybe the person that gave access to all that information to so many
people should be in there. This was bound to happen. Stupid Yanks.
Forgotten all about "need to know".
Very little of this info is high security military information. It's
mostly just embarassing gossip. Embarassing for politicians that is.
There's a lot of things now out in the open that we all should know
about people that we voted for. I hear there's lot's to come about
what's been did and what's been hid re. the gov. and the financial
institutions.

Shows what incompetant blockheads you employ in the military. This
just the latest total cockup they have presided over. If it wasn't
this guy, it would have been someone else.
How is it the military are some great god? The American military are
the world's new fascists, participating in torture and illegal
imprisonment throughout the world. I hear they are now building prison
camps in America.The whole organisation needs to be disbanded, they
are as bad as the Nazis ever were.

http://freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm

On Dec 25, 5:47*am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
?
"Patrick Karl" wrote



Seems as though the boy did something wrong and he is being punished for
it. If prison was tougher, people would be less inclined to break the
law. . He does have limited TV viewing. Considering some of the shows on
TV these days, maybe that is cruel.

As I understand it, we're talking about someone who hasn't been convicted
of anything. *So how do you know he did anything wrong?

Should we just throw everybody into cruel prison and see who survives?

He'll have his day in court. Meantime, he is put away the same as thousands
of others have been. *Don't like it? *Change the system.

They already are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P-hvPJPTi4

"Patrick Karl" wrote

The Boy was not in the girl scouts. He was in the military and will most
likely spend a lot time regretting his actions over the next 30-40 years
in
the brig.

I don't think you will find much sympathy in this group.

What actions have he been convicted of?

Don't act the child. He was Military, not a civilian. We are WELL briefed
on what that means before we sign up including the legal handling of
infractions. He'd have had numerous other briefings on handling of
classified information as well.

He's probably still restricted to protect his ass from the other prisioners.
We don't suffer traitors very well.

On 12/25/2010 10:52 AM, cshenk wrote:
"Patrick Karl" wrote

The Boy was not in the girl scouts. He was in the military and will most
likely spend a lot time regretting his actions over the next 30-40
years in
the brig.

I don't think you will find much sympathy in this group.

What actions have he been convicted of?

Don't act the child. He was Military, not a civilian. We are WELL
briefed on what that means before we sign up including the legal
handling of infractions. He'd have had numerous other briefings on
handling of classified information as well.

I was in the military. Don't remember much training about the military
justice system at the level of detail you're implying.

He's probably still restricted to protect his ass from the other
prisioners. We don't suffer traitors very well.

You do understand that until he's convicted we don't know whether he is
a traitor or not. The treatment he's receiving amounts to cruel and
unusual punishment, especially insofar as he hasn't been shown to be
guilty of anything. Couldn't we please wait till after the trial to
begin pulling his fingernails out?

On 12/25/10 03:38 pm, Patrick Karl wrote:

The Boy was not in the girl scouts. He was in the military and will
most
likely spend a lot time regretting his actions over the next 30-40
years in
the brig.

I don't think you will find much sympathy in this group.

What actions have he been convicted of?

Don't act the child. He was Military, not a civilian. We are WELL
briefed on what that means before we sign up including the legal
handling of infractions. He'd have had numerous other briefings on
handling of classified information as well.

I was in the military. Don't remember much training about the military
justice system at the level of detail you're implying.

He's probably still restricted to protect his ass from the other
prisioners. We don't suffer traitors very well.

You do understand that until he's convicted we don't know whether he is
a traitor or not. The treatment he's receiving amounts to cruel and
unusual punishment, especially insofar as he hasn't been shown to be
guilty of anything. Couldn't we please wait till after the trial to
begin pulling his fingernails out?

You mean that "If he weren't guilty, he wouldn't have been arrested"
doesn't apply in this case?

Perce

On 12/24/2010 9:17 PM The Daring Dufas spake thus:

On 12/24/2010 11:14 PM, Patrick Karl wrote:

On 12/24/2010 9:02 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:

You are referring to the soldier who removed classified material
from his workplace and gave it to WikiLeaks?

Shoot first and ask questions later?

What? You don't believe in deterrents or preventive measures.? :-)

For chrissakes, Manning has NOT EVEN BEEN CHARGED WITH A CRIME YET!

Not by the military. Not by the Justice Department. Not by Sweden. Not
by ANYBODY.

Doesn't this mean anything to you?

Guess not.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 17:38:39 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

For chrissakes, Manning has NOT EVEN BEEN CHARGED WITH A CRIME YET!

Not by the military. Not by the Justice Department. Not by Sweden. Not
by ANYBODY.

Doesn't this mean anything to you?

Guess not.

Here is his _Charge Sheet_

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/pfc...arge-sheet.htm

Full *.pdf file

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/ima...ey-manning.pdf

Violating U.S. Code is a CRIME

On 12/25/2010 5:48 PM Oren spake thus:

On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 17:38:39 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

For chrissakes, Manning has NOT EVEN BEEN CHARGED WITH A CRIME YET!


Not by the military. Not by the Justice Department. Not by Sweden.
Not by ANYBODY.

Doesn't this mean anything to you?

Guess not.

Here is his _Charge Sheet_

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/pfc...arge-sheet.htm

Full *.pdf file

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/ima...ey-manning.pdf

Violating U.S. Code is a CRIME

I realized I mis-spoke (mis-typed?) after I sent that. (However, the
fact remains that he has not yet been *convicted* of anything.)

To answer your other question, this person (David House) is one of the
few people allowed to visit Manning, and his account of Manning's
detention is he

http://my.firedoglake.com/blog/2010/...his-conditions


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 12/25/2010 5:48 PM Oren spake thus:

On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 17:38:39 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

For chrissakes, Manning has NOT EVEN BEEN CHARGED WITH A CRIME YET!


Not by the military. Not by the Justice Department. Not by Sweden.
Not by ANYBODY.

Doesn't this mean anything to you?

Guess not.

Here is his _Charge Sheet_

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/pfc...arge-sheet.htm

Full *.pdf file

http://www.michaelyon-online.com/ima...ey-manning.pdf


Violating U.S. Code is a CRIME

I realized I mis-spoke (mis-typed?) after I sent that. (However, the
fact remains that he has not yet been *convicted* of anything.)

To answer your other question, this person (David House) is one of the
few people allowed to visit Manning, and his account of Manning's
detention is he

http://my.firedoglake.com/blog/2010/...his-conditions



Civilians can be held without bail pending trial if circumstances
warrant and a judge agrees. They can also be placed under suicide watch.
What is different about this? The discussion seems to center around
whether Manning is suicidal.

On 12/25/2010 6:15 PM Dean Hoffman spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

To answer your other question, this person (David House) is one of the
few people allowed to visit Manning, and his account of Manning's
detention is he

http://my.firedoglake.com/blog/2010/...his-conditions

Civilians can be held without bail pending trial if circumstances
warrant and a judge agrees. They can also be placed under suicide watch.
What is different about this? The discussion seems to center around
whether Manning is suicidal.

Don't know if you actually read the whole article, but there are some
troubling questions about the circumstances of Manning's detention. He's
technically not on suicide watch but is under a regime of Prevention of
Injury, for questionable reasons.

He's being sleep-deprived. Their (Quantico's) claims of allowing him
exercise every day are apparently bull**** (he's allowed to *walk* in a
larger room; that's "exercise"?).

No, he's not being held in the same brutal conditions that, say, John
McCain was held under in Vietnam, but that still doesn't excuse his
needlessly harsh treatment, which seems to come perilously close to
torture in some respects.


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

Higgs Boson wrote:
This is to wish all the good people on this NG Happy Holidays and a
New Year of peace, health and prosperity.

At this holiday seasons, let us share our blessings with poor Bradley
Manning, who is still in a Navy brig under inhuman -- read: "torture"
conditions. He needs to hear from us. That our government can be so
spiteful and do illegal things to people is no news, but what they're
doing to this kid is beyond all limits. We must stand up for the rule
of law!

He is being kept -- falsely -- under a "Prevention of Injury" rule.
He is not a dangerous to himself; that is a slimy pretext. He can't
get a night's sleep; they wake him every 5 minutes. He has NO
exercise time. No pillow, no blanket. In solitary for the last few
months. Cannot receive visitors. Has no reading matter. He is
deteriorating mentally and physically. The govt's objective is to
break him so he will turn on WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

Please go to freebradleymanning.org and add your support.

****Not because you agree or disagree with WikiLeaks and Bradley
Manning.**** That's not the point.

But because what is being done to this boy by our government is
ILLEGAL. Our silence is complicity. What if it was your son?


Everybody has constitutional rights.

Chief among these is the right to give up these rights.

Manning did so when he voluntarily submitted himself to the rules and
procedures of the military.

He's fortunate he's not chained to the wall. Inverted.

On Dec 26, 6:58*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Higgs Boson wrote:
This is to wish all the good people on this NG Happy Holidays and a
New Year of peace, health and prosperity.

At this holiday seasons, let us share our blessings with poor Bradley
Manning, who is still in a Navy brig under inhuman -- read: "torture"
conditions. *He needs to hear from us. *That our government can be so
spiteful and do illegal things to people is no news, but what they're
doing to this kid is beyond all limits. *We must stand up for the rule
of law!

He is being kept -- falsely -- under a "Prevention of Injury" rule.
He is not a dangerous to himself; that is a slimy pretext. *He can't
get a night's sleep; they wake him every 5 minutes. *He has NO
exercise time. *No pillow, no blanket. *In solitary for the last few
months. *Cannot receive visitors. Has no reading matter. *He is
deteriorating mentally and physically. *The govt's objective is *to
break him so he will turn on WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

Please go to freebradleymanning.org and add your support.

****Not because you agree or disagree with WikiLeaks and Bradley
Manning.**** *That's not the point.

But because what is being done to this boy by our government *is
ILLEGAL. *Our silence is complicity. *What if it was your son?

Everybody has constitutional rights.

Chief among these is the right to give up these rights.

Manning did so when he voluntarily submitted himself to the rules and
procedures of the military.

He's fortunate he's not chained to the wall. Inverted.

One does despair of our beloved country when there is so much outright
ignorance about the law, civilian or military. People who are
"softened up" by excuses for unconscionable illegalities are so much
easier to dominate when, eventually, the rule of law is entirely
abandoned and we are turned into a militaristic banana republic.
Unfortunately, the hammer falls on us as well as them. Quis custodiet
ipsos custodes.

On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 18:49:52 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 12/25/2010 6:15 PM Dean Hoffman spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

To answer your other question, this person (David House) is one of the
few people allowed to visit Manning, and his account of Manning's
detention is he

http://my.firedoglake.com/blog/2010/...his-conditions

Civilians can be held without bail pending trial if circumstances
warrant and a judge agrees. They can also be placed under suicide watch.
What is different about this? The discussion seems to center around
whether Manning is suicidal.

Don't know if you actually read the whole article, but there are some
troubling questions about the circumstances of Manning's detention. He's
technically not on suicide watch but is under a regime of Prevention of
Injury, for questionable reasons.


I forced myself to read the article, David. POI and SW are they same
thing -- in my mind, with one exception. POI status simply means that
certain staff are assigned to his housing quarters. Hand picked so
some mad Marine can't get to him a rip his throat out for lunch. SW is
a status of POI (self inflicted).

To much is made about this: Did you know that presently one federal
prisoner is on "No Human Contact". It simply means that this prisoner
CANNOT be in the same cell with staff. If he is removed for a legal
visit he gets a bunch of silver jewelry and a ten man escort team that
is often hired by the pound. They carry plenty of black sticks.

He's being sleep-deprived. Their (Quantico's) claims of allowing him
exercise every day are apparently bull**** (he's allowed to *walk* in a
larger room; that's "exercise"?).

Prisons are a loud environment. Grills slamming, PA system, fire
alarms - all kind of stuff. Hard to get much sleep and many inmates
sleep with "one eye open".

Federal prisoners in "max, single cell" units get five hours. Most
just walk around in the exercise cage, some even do push-ups.

Is this Pre_Trial detainee special. Hell no!


No, he's not being held in the same brutal conditions that, say, John
McCain was held under in Vietnam, but that still doesn't excuse his
needlessly harsh treatment, which seems to come perilously close to
torture in some respects.

What happens if the HVAC unit breaks? Must be a terrible condition to
live under.

Like I say, this guy is not there for singing to loud in Church... I
call that the "Inconvenience Of Incarceration" (IOI).

No matter how the bleeding-hearts and the do-goodies try to spin this
into making him a martyr -- they are wrong about his present
confinement conditions.

It's for his own good. He just doesn't realize it yet.

On Dec 26, 3:09*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 18:49:52 -0800, David Nebenzahl



wrote:
On 12/25/2010 6:15 PM Dean Hoffman spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

To answer your other question, this person (David House) is one of the
few people allowed to visit Manning, and his account of Manning's
detention is he

http://my.firedoglake.com/blog/2010/...ng-speaks-abou....

* * * Civilians can be held without bail pending trial if circumstances
warrant and a judge agrees. * They can also be placed under suicide watch.
What is different about this? * *The discussion seems to center around
whether Manning is suicidal.

Don't know if you actually read the whole article, but there are some
troubling questions about the circumstances of Manning's detention. He's
technically not on suicide watch but is under a regime of Prevention of
Injury, for questionable reasons.

I forced myself to read the article, David. POI and SW are they same
thing -- in my mind, with one exception. POI status simply means that
certain staff are assigned to his housing quarters. Hand picked so
some mad Marine can't get to him a rip his throat out for lunch. SW is
a status of POI (self inflicted).

To much is made about this: Did you know that presently one federal
prisoner is on "No Human Contact". *It simply means that this prisoner
CANNOT be in the same cell with staff. *If he is removed for a legal
visit he gets a bunch of silver jewelry and a ten man escort team that
is often hired by the pound. They carry plenty of black sticks.

He's being sleep-deprived. Their (Quantico's) claims of allowing him
exercise every day are apparently bull**** (he's allowed to *walk* in a
larger room; that's "exercise"?).

Prisons are a loud environment. Grills slamming, PA system, fire
alarms - all kind of stuff. *Hard to get much sleep and many inmates
sleep with "one eye open".

Federal prisoners in "max, single cell" units get five hours. Most
just walk around in the exercise cage, some even do push-ups.

Is this Pre_Trial detainee special. Hell no!



No, he's not being held in the same brutal conditions that, say, John
McCain was held under in Vietnam, but that still doesn't excuse his
needlessly harsh treatment, which seems to come perilously close to
torture in some respects.

I will post some comments about McCain's "harsh treatment under
another thread. Look for it.


What happens if the HVAC unit breaks? Must be a terrible condition to
live under.

Like I say, this guy is not there for singing to loud in Church... I
call that the "Inconvenience Of Incarceration" (IOI).

No matter how the bleeding-hearts and the do-goodies try to spin this
into making him a martyr -- they are wrong about his present
confinement conditions.

No, they are absolutely correct. The military is acting like
playground bullies, but this is not a playground, and Manning is a
human being they are trying to break by torture.

It's for his own good. He just doesn't realize it yet.

I can't wait till it happens to you. Then you'll understand that it's
not about bleeding hearts and do-gooders -- it's about the rule of the
law as opposed to the rule of the jungle. Have you ever actually
READ the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?

Higgs Boson wrote:
On Dec 26, 3:09 pm, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 25 Dec 2010 18:49:52 -0800, David Nebenzahl



wrote:
On 12/25/2010 6:15 PM Dean Hoffman spake thus:
David Nebenzahl wrote:
To answer your other question, this person (David House) is one of the
few people allowed to visit Manning, and his account of Manning's
detention is he
http://my.firedoglake.com/blog/2010/...ng-speaks-abou...
Civilians can be held without bail pending trial if circumstances
warrant and a judge agrees. They can also be placed under suicide watch.
What is different about this? The discussion seems to center around
whether Manning is suicidal.
Don't know if you actually read the whole article, but there are some
troubling questions about the circumstances of Manning's detention. He's
technically not on suicide watch but is under a regime of Prevention of
Injury, for questionable reasons.
I forced myself to read the article, David. POI and SW are they same
thing -- in my mind, with one exception. POI status simply means that
certain staff are assigned to his housing quarters. Hand picked so
some mad Marine can't get to him a rip his throat out for lunch. SW is
a status of POI (self inflicted).

To much is made about this: Did you know that presently one federal
prisoner is on "No Human Contact". It simply means that this prisoner
CANNOT be in the same cell with staff. If he is removed for a legal
visit he gets a bunch of silver jewelry and a ten man escort team that
is often hired by the pound. They carry plenty of black sticks.

He's being sleep-deprived. Their (Quantico's) claims of allowing him
exercise every day are apparently bull**** (he's allowed to *walk* in a
larger room; that's "exercise"?).
Prisons are a loud environment. Grills slamming, PA system, fire
alarms - all kind of stuff. Hard to get much sleep and many inmates
sleep with "one eye open".

Federal prisoners in "max, single cell" units get five hours. Most
just walk around in the exercise cage, some even do push-ups.

Is this Pre_Trial detainee special. Hell no!



No, he's not being held in the same brutal conditions that, say, John
McCain was held under in Vietnam, but that still doesn't excuse his
needlessly harsh treatment, which seems to come perilously close to
torture in some respects.

I will post some comments about McCain's "harsh treatment under
another thread. Look for it.

What happens if the HVAC unit breaks? Must be a terrible condition to
live under.

Like I say, this guy is not there for singing to loud in Church... I
call that the "Inconvenience Of Incarceration" (IOI).

No matter how the bleeding-hearts and the do-goodies try to spin this
into making him a martyr -- they are wrong about his present
confinement conditions.

No, they are absolutely correct. The military is acting like
playground bullies, but this is not a playground, and Manning is a
human being they are trying to break by torture.
It's for his own good. He just doesn't realize it yet.

I can't wait till it happens to you. Then you'll understand that it's
not about bleeding hearts and do-gooders -- it's about the rule of the
law as opposed to the rule of the jungle. Have you ever actually
READ the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?



Is that last one nowadays a Bill Of Wishes??

Higgs Boson wrote:

No, they are absolutely correct. The military is acting like
playground bullies, but this is not a playground, and Manning is a
human being they are trying to break by torture.

It's for his own good. He just doesn't realize it yet.

I can't wait till it happens to you. Then you'll understand that it's
not about bleeding hearts and do-gooders -- it's about the rule of the
law as opposed to the rule of the jungle. Have you ever actually
READ the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?

I've read the Constitution; evidently you haven't.

"Article II

"The President shall be the Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the
United States, and of the Militia of the several States when called into the
actual Service of the United States;..."

Some folks have difficulty wrapping their mind around the word "Chief" in
the above declaration.

The Constitutional provisions regarding criminals (right to a lawyer,
indictment by a grand jury, compulsory process for obtaining witnesses,
etc.) do not apply to members of the armed forces. Military members are
governed entirely by the UCMJ. Even appeals from their convictions do not go
through the civilian court system, but instead to the Convening Authority,
then up the chain of command.

The ONLY review by non-military courts is for habeas corpus