Dear Everyone,
as you know the price of the Oil is more and more increasing, while
the oil supply is decreasing. Moreover Oil
is causing wars, terror, oil spills and a lot of greenhouse gases.
By upgrading your car to flex fuel, you will continue to be able to
use oil. However you will also have the
opportunity to use E85, that means more freedom of choice. The
conversion cost is about 200-250 USD.
By choosing ethanol, you choose local fuel production, which means
labour for farmers, labour for enginneers
and workers in the ethanol plant, labour for transportation. Moreover
you also help for indirect labour. Since
the money stays in your country, this money will turn and produce
indirect labour. Since the farmer will gain
your additional fuel money, he will buy other things (labour is again
needed for their production), which in case
of oil the oil-Sheikhs or their people would do.
That ethanol production increases the food prices is also not totally
right, first there is a by-product called
"distillers dried grains with solubles", which is used as feed for
livestock, that is also nothing else than
food. Moreover, by using ethanol, you put pressure on oil prices,
which has also an important effect on food
prices. You also give your money for more research (again labour),
which will yield in higher efficiency of
production and alternative production methods like cellulosic ethanol,
which will change the whole equation.
Again in case of oil this money would be spent for oil rigs, oil-
infrastructure, but also for weapons to
defend the oil.
By using ethanol, you produce less CO2, since it is produced by corn,
which actually consumed the CO2 in the air
for its growing. The more people use ethanol, the higher the
efficiencies will come for production (similar to
solar cells). The prices will go further down, and much less CO2 will
be produced during production in the plant.
Do you know that the production efficiencies already improved 30% ?*
Another reason for using ethanol is that oil prices will come up
again, when the barrel price of 150 USD is back
you will be very happy to have your vehicle converted. The conversion
also increases the value of your vehicle.

Yours sincerely.


Sources:
*http://brownfieldagnews.com/2010/09/...on-efficiency-
improves/

On Nov 9, 1:35*pm, "........" wrote:
Dear Everyone,
as you know the price of the Oil is more and more increasing, while
the oil supply is decreasing. Moreover Oil
is causing wars, terror, oil spills and a lot of greenhouse gases.
By upgrading your car to flex fuel, you will continue to be able to
use oil. However you will also have the
opportunity to use E85, that means more freedom of choice. The
conversion cost is about 200-250 USD.
By choosing ethanol, you choose local fuel production, which means
labour for farmers, labour for enginneers
and workers in the ethanol plant, labour for transportation. Moreover
you also help for indirect labour. Since
the money stays in your country, this money will turn and produce
indirect labour. Since the farmer will gain
your additional fuel money, he will buy other things (labour is again
needed for their production), which in case
of oil the oil-Sheikhs or their people would do.
That ethanol production increases the food prices is also not totally
right, first there is a by-product called
"distillers dried grains with solubles", which is used as feed for
livestock, that is also nothing else than
food. Moreover, by using ethanol, you put pressure on oil prices,
which has also an important effect on food
prices. You also give your money for more research (again labour),
which will yield in higher efficiency of
production and alternative production methods like cellulosic ethanol,
which will change the whole equation.
Again in case of oil this money would be spent for oil rigs, oil-
infrastructure, but also for weapons to
defend the oil.
By using ethanol, you produce less CO2, since it is produced by corn,
which actually consumed the CO2 in the air
for its growing. The more people use ethanol, the higher the
efficiencies will come for production (similar to
solar cells). The prices will go further down, and much less CO2 will
be produced during production in the plant.
Do you know that the production efficiencies already improved 30% ?*
Another reason for using ethanol is that oil prices will come up
again, when the barrel price of 150 USD is back
you will be very happy to have your vehicle converted. The conversion
also increases the value of your vehicle.

Yours sincerely.

Sources:
*http://brownfieldagnews.com/2010/09/...on-efficiency-
improves/

==
Yah, sure...no problem except that in Alberta we can't even get E5 let
alone E85. We're supposed to have E5 by Dec. 13/2010 but I would bet
on it.
==

On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 12:58:58 -0800 (PST), Roy
wrote:

On Nov 9, 1:35Â*pm, "........" wrote:
Dear Everyone,
as you know the price of the Oil is more and more increasing, while
the oil supply is decreasing. Moreover Oil
is causing wars, terror, oil spills and a lot of greenhouse gases.
By upgrading your car to flex fuel, you will continue to be able to
use oil. However you will also have the
opportunity to use E85, that means more freedom of choice. The
conversion cost is about 200-250 USD.
By choosing ethanol, you choose local fuel production, which means
labour for farmers, labour for enginneers
and workers in the ethanol plant, labour for transportation. Moreover
you also help for indirect labour. Since
the money stays in your country, this money will turn and produce
indirect labour. Since the farmer will gain
your additional fuel money, he will buy other things (labour is again
needed for their production), which in case
of oil the oil-Sheikhs or their people would do.
That ethanol production increases the food prices is also not totally
right, first there is a by-product called
"distillers dried grains with solubles", which is used as feed for
livestock, that is also nothing else than
food. Moreover, by using ethanol, you put pressure on oil prices,
which has also an important effect on food
prices. You also give your money for more research (again labour),
which will yield in higher efficiency of
production and alternative production methods like cellulosic ethanol,
which will change the whole equation.
Again in case of oil this money would be spent for oil rigs, oil-
infrastructure, but also for weapons to
defend the oil.
By using ethanol, you produce less CO2, since it is produced by corn,
which actually consumed the CO2 in the air
for its growing. The more people use ethanol, the higher the
efficiencies will come for production (similar to
solar cells). The prices will go further down, and much less CO2 will
be produced during production in the plant.
Do you know that the production efficiencies already improved 30% ?*
Another reason for using ethanol is that oil prices will come up
again, when the barrel price of 150 USD is back
you will be very happy to have your vehicle converted. The conversion
also increases the value of your vehicle.

Yours sincerely.

Sources:
*http://brownfieldagnews.com/2010/09/...on-efficiency-
improves/

==
Yah, sure...no problem except that in Alberta we can't even get E5 let
alone E85. We're supposed to have E5 by Dec. 13/2010 but I would bet
on it.
==
Thank your lucky stars.
Ethanol (from corn) as a motor fuel never did, and never will, make
sense - particularly in Oilberta.
Ethanol from saw-grass would be a totally different situation.

wrote in message
...
\ Thank your lucky stars.
Ethanol (from corn) as a motor fuel never did, and never will, make
sense - particularly in Oilberta.
Ethanol from saw-grass would be a totally different situation.

as they figure out ways to liquefy natural gas for carrying and travel
that'll probably take over a lot of things
http://www.google.com/finance?cid=2277660
NorthernStar Natural Gas wants to help navigate fuel to its destinations
(homes and businesses) on the US West Coast. It is developing liquefied
natural gas (LNG) receiving terminals which will re-gasify the fuel from
suppliers for consumers using existing pipelines. By cooling and converting
it to a liquid form, natural gas can be transported more easily and cheaply
across long distances. Its portfolio includes one terminal project with a
capacity of 1.3 billion cu. ft. per day (Bradwood Landing, in Oregon) and
one offshore terminal in California. Industry veteran executives William
Garrett and Paul Soanes have teamed up with investment firm MatlinPatterson
Global Advisors to fund the company's development.

On 11/09/10 07:53 pm, wrote:

Yah, sure...no problem except that in Alberta we can't even get E5 let
alone E85. We're supposed to have E5 by Dec. 13/2010 but I would bet
on it.

Consider yourself lucky. There are a lot more problems caused by E
fuels that get fixed by them.
It is basically a farm subsidy anyway. We are burning food in our
cars.

50 or so years ago in UK "Cleveland Distol" (5% alcohol) was advertised
widely, and I sometimes used it in my motorcycle. I don't recall anybody
ever complaining. 85% alcohol is something else, of course.

Perce

......... wrote:
Dear Everyone,
as you know the price of the Oil is more and more increasing, while
the oil supply is decreasing.

Not exactly true. While the price of oil IS increasing, it is still way
below its price of the '70s. Further, the oil supply is not decreasing.
Proven reserves increase every year, sometimes dramatically.

Moreover Oil
is causing wars, terror, oil spills and a lot of greenhouse gases.

Oil only indirectly cause wars. Hitler invaded Russia over oil, Japan
attacked the U.S. because of oil. But oil was only the symptom. The real
reason was a need for energy. If Russia had supplied Germany with all the
oil it could use - or if the U.S. had done the same with Japan - war could
have been averted.

Had war in those two cases been averted, we'd no doubt be a worse position
today.


By upgrading your car to flex fuel, you will continue to be able to
use oil. However you will also have the
opportunity to use E85, that means more freedom of choice. The
conversion cost is about 200-250 USD.

So you want us to spend money to be able to use more expensive fuel?

Let me think...

On Nov 9, 7:33*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
........ wrote:
Dear Everyone,
as you know the price of the Oil is more and more increasing, while
the oil supply is decreasing.

Not exactly true. While the price of oil IS increasing, it is still way
below its price of the '70s. Further, the oil supply is not decreasing.
Proven reserves increase every year, sometimes dramatically.

Moreover Oil
is causing wars, terror, oil spills and a lot of greenhouse gases.

Oil only indirectly cause wars. Hitler invaded Russia over oil, Japan
attacked the U.S. because of oil. But oil was only the symptom. The real
reason was a need for energy. If Russia had supplied Germany with all the
oil it could use - or if the U.S. had done the same with Japan - war could
have been averted.

Had war in those two cases been averted, we'd no doubt be a worse position
today.

By upgrading your car to flex fuel, you will continue to be able to
use oil. However you will also have the
opportunity to use E85, that means more freedom of choice. The
conversion cost is about 200-250 USD.

So you want us to spend money to be able to use more expensive fuel?

Let me think...

==
My Dodge Grand Caravan is supposedly ready for E85 fuel. I can't test
it as E85 is NOT available as yet.
==
For vehicles not converted to use these new blends I hear of nothing
but problems so before switching I would sure read up on them.
==

On 11/9/2010 10:00 PM, Roy wrote:
On Nov 9, 7:33 pm, wrote:
........ wrote:
Dear Everyone,
as you know the price of the Oil is more and more increasing, while
the oil supply is decreasing.

Not exactly true. While the price of oil IS increasing, it is still way
below its price of the '70s. Further, the oil supply is not decreasing.
Proven reserves increase every year, sometimes dramatically.

Moreover Oil
is causing wars, terror, oil spills and a lot of greenhouse gases.

Oil only indirectly cause wars. Hitler invaded Russia over oil, Japan
attacked the U.S. because of oil. But oil was only the symptom. The real
reason was a need for energy. If Russia had supplied Germany with all the
oil it could use - or if the U.S. had done the same with Japan - war could
have been averted.

Had war in those two cases been averted, we'd no doubt be a worse position
today.

By upgrading your car to flex fuel, you will continue to be able to
use oil. However you will also have the
opportunity to use E85, that means more freedom of choice. The
conversion cost is about 200-250 USD.

So you want us to spend money to be able to use more expensive fuel?

Let me think...

==
My Dodge Grand Caravan is supposedly ready for E85 fuel. I can't test
it as E85 is NOT available as yet.
==
For vehicles not converted to use these new blends I hear of nothing
but problems so before switching I would sure read up on them.
==

maybe it's not available in a reasonable distance from YOU. It's all
over the midwest.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

In article , Ala wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
\ Thank your lucky stars.
Ethanol (from corn) as a motor fuel never did, and never will, make
sense - particularly in Oilberta.
Ethanol from saw-grass would be a totally different situation.

as they figure out ways to liquefy natural gas for carrying and travel
that'll probably take over a lot of things
http://www.google.com/finance?cid=2277660
NorthernStar Natural Gas wants to help navigate fuel to its destinations
(homes and businesses) on the US West Coast. It is developing liquefied
natural gas (LNG) receiving terminals which will re-gasify the fuel from
suppliers for consumers using existing pipelines. By cooling and converting
it to a liquid form, natural gas can be transported more easily and cheaply
across long distances. Its portfolio includes one terminal project with a
capacity of 1.3 billion cu. ft. per day (Bradwood Landing, in Oregon) and
one offshore terminal in California. Industry veteran executives William
Garrett and Paul Soanes have teamed up with investment firm MatlinPatterson
Global Advisors to fund the company's development.

Liquified natural gas has a bit of a problem in car fuel tanks - on
such smaller fuel tanks even with a lot of thermal insulation, rate of
heat inflow from outside into such cold fuel raises its vapor pressure to
great levels. At many times, the temperature will exceed the "critical
tempwerature" - above which liquid of most of LNG's chemical constituency
cannot exist no matter how high the pressure is. How much fuel can one
store in what practical fuel tank if it is gaseous rather than liquid?
Will the fuel pumps at the refueling stations pump the fuel into such
higher pressures at a cost that the market will support? Will these
fuel dispensers be operable by Joe Sixpack, or require a trained
technician to operate?

What is the octane rating of "natural gas" anyway?

I have heard of trucks and seen forklifts running on propane - but that
is easily liquified at ordinary temperatures at fairly reasonable
pressures.
--
- Don Klipstein )

"........" wrote in message
...
Dear Everyone,
as you know the price of the Oil is more and more increasing, while
the oil supply is decreasing. Moreover Oil
is causing wars, terror, oil spills and a lot of greenhouse gases.
By upgrading your car to flex fuel, you will continue to be able to
use oil. However you will also have the
opportunity to use E85, that means more freedom of choice. The
conversion cost is about 200-250 USD.
By choosing ethanol, you choose local fuel production, which means
labour for farmers, labour for enginneers
and workers in the ethanol plant, labour for transportation. Moreover
you also help for indirect labour. Since
the money stays in your country, this money will turn and produce
indirect labour. Since the farmer will gain
your additional fuel money, he will buy other things (labour is again
needed for their production), which in case
of oil the oil-Sheikhs or their people would do.
That ethanol production increases the food prices is also not totally
right, first there is a by-product called
"distillers dried grains with solubles", which is used as feed for
livestock, that is also nothing else than
food. Moreover, by using ethanol, you put pressure on oil prices,
which has also an important effect on food
prices. You also give your money for more research (again labour),
which will yield in higher efficiency of
production and alternative production methods like cellulosic ethanol,
which will change the whole equation.
Again in case of oil this money would be spent for oil rigs, oil-
infrastructure, but also for weapons to
defend the oil.
By using ethanol, you produce less CO2, since it is produced by corn,
which actually consumed the CO2 in the air
for its growing. The more people use ethanol, the higher the
efficiencies will come for production (similar to
solar cells). The prices will go further down, and much less CO2 will
be produced during production in the plant.
Do you know that the production efficiencies already improved 30% ?*
Another reason for using ethanol is that oil prices will come up
again, when the barrel price of 150 USD is back
you will be very happy to have your vehicle converted. The conversion
also increases the value of your vehicle.

Yours sincerely.


Sources:
*http://brownfieldagnews.com/2010/09/...on-efficiency-
improves/

Well, yes, no, absolutely, maybe, and I don't know. In my state, Utah, guys
were changing vehicles to LPG, and claiming all sorts of savings. Charging
quite a bit for the conversion, too. Only problem was that doing it
required approval in advance from the state, and they will only license
vehicles that are LPG from the factory. So, all the owners who had them
retrofitted were hosed, and some of the companies that did the conversions
were in deep doo doo.

Just making a blanket solicitation is ludicrous of you. And a spamming
troll besides.

Steve

Not exactly true. While the price of oil IS increasing, it is still way
below its price of the '70s. Further, the oil supply is not decreasing.
Proven reserves increase every year, sometimes dramatically.

But now with the devaluation of the dollar due to massive printing, oil
costs are going up, and will continue to rise until the US stops printing
money.

Steve

Some engines are made that run on 6 or 8 cylinders when needed,
but generally chug along on 4 after getting up to speed. Is this mainly
a computer thingy or do the engines have to engineered from scratch for
this? If the first, are there kits available to make the conversion?
This seems the more logical, easier, and probably cheaper approach if
available.

--
"Even I realized that money was to politicians what the ecalyptus tree is to koala bears: food, water, shelter and something to crap on."
---PJ O'Rourke

On 11/9/2010 7:53 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 12:58:58 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Yah, sure...no problem except that in Alberta we can't even get E5 let
alone E85. We're supposed to have E5 by Dec. 13/2010 but I would bet
on it.
==

Consider yourself lucky. There are a lot more problems caused by E
fuels that get fixed by them.
It is basically a farm subsidy anyway. We are burning food in our
cars.

Sure, but it is important to keep the SUVs operating. It just wouldn't
make any sense to consider fuel efficiency when you need a fluffed up
truck to haul yourself and a large beverage around...

I havn't got any proof. But, I think it's possible that the farming,
transporting, and distilling uses more energy than what the ethanol
produces. So, we may be actually increasing our consumption of fossil
fuels.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 12:58:58 -0800 (PST), Roy
wrote:

Yah, sure...no problem except that in Alberta we can't even get E5
let
alone E85. We're supposed to have E5 by Dec. 13/2010 but I would bet
on it.
==

Consider yourself lucky. There are a lot more problems caused by E
fuels that get fixed by them.
It is basically a farm subsidy anyway. We are burning food in our
cars.

And, in a few places in New York State, USA also. I've seen E-85 at
the pumps.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...

==
My Dodge Grand Caravan is supposedly ready for E85 fuel. I can't
test
it as E85 is NOT available as yet.
==
For vehicles not converted to use these new blends I hear of nothing
but problems so before switching I would sure read up on them.
==

maybe it's not available in a reasonable distance from YOU. It's all
over the midwest.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Cars run fine on CNG compressed natural gas. I have a friend who
convereted both of his vehicles back in 72 just after the first oil
crisis. Vehicles have a little less power but run fine, exhaust is
super clean. and his vehicles are pre computer. They are actually dual
fuel and run on gasoline too with the flick of one switch.

The trouble with oil, we as a nation are shipping our wea;th overseas
to buy oil from people who hate us.

While we ship our jobs overseas to get them done cheap. Is it any
wonder our economy is collapsing?

Look at health care being such a BIG part of our economy. Its
percentage wouldnt be so large if we had more manufacturing.......

if you think our economy is bad now just wait till the terrorists
strike again....

we will have a full blown depression........

In article
,
" wrote:

if you think our economy is bad now just wait till the terrorists
strike again....

they already reclaimed the House.

On 11/10/10 08:00 am, wrote:

Cars run fine on CNG compressed natural gas. I have a friend who
convereted both of his vehicles back in 72 just after the first oil
crisis. Vehicles have a little less power but run fine, exhaust is
super clean. and his vehicles are pre computer. They are actually dual
fuel and run on gasoline too with the flick of one switch.

When I left Australia almost 25 years ago, many taxis and other fleet
vehicles had been converted to run on LPG/CNG (with a cylinder in the
trunk), but a large part of the savings was that LPG did not carry the
taxes that gasoline did. I don't know whether it ever came to pass, but
many people predicted that once LPG use became significant heavy taxes
would be imposed on it to match those on gasoline: the roads have to be
paid for somehow.

I have no idea about taxes on LPG in the USA.

Perce

On Nov 10, 7:25*am, George wrote:
On 11/9/2010 7:53 PM, wrote:

On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 12:58:58 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Yah, sure...no problem except that in Alberta we can't even get E5 let
alone E85. We're supposed to have E5 by Dec. 13/2010 but I would bet
on it.
==

Consider yourself lucky. There are a lot more problems caused by E
fuels that get fixed by them.
It is basically a farm subsidy anyway. We are burning food in our
cars.

Sure, but it is important to keep the SUVs operating. It just wouldn't
make any sense to consider fuel efficiency when you need a fluffed up
truck to haul yourself and a large beverage around...

What's a fluffed up truck? Does my 1998 Honda CRV qualify?
I haul myself, but rarely a beverage, because when I'm driving,
I'm driving, not drinking or talking on the phone, or checking my
hair. (Quick check--yes, it's still there.)

Sure, I could get by most of the time with a smaller car, and
did for quite some time, but when it snows I had the devil's
own time getting out of my upward-sloping driveway, and
used to get stuck at work because my employer is too
cheap to have the parking lot plowed in a timely fashion.
I'm getting too damned old to dig my car out.

Cindy Hamilton

wrote:
Cars run fine on CNG compressed natural gas. I have a friend who
convereted both of his vehicles back in 72 just after the first oil
crisis. Vehicles have a little less power but run fine, exhaust is
super clean. and his vehicles are pre computer. They are actually dual
fuel and run on gasoline too with the flick of one switch.

The trouble with oil, we as a nation are shipping our wea;th overseas
to buy oil from people who hate us.

We get most of our oil from Canada & Mexico; they don't hate us (well, maybe
some in Mexico...).


While we ship our jobs overseas to get them done cheap. Is it any
wonder our economy is collapsing?

Look at health care being such a BIG part of our economy. Its
percentage wouldnt be so large if we had more manufacturing.......


There's the story of the fellow who invented a magic box that could "read"
X-Rays. Hospitals would electronically transmit digitized X-Rays to him, his
box would read the X-Ray and send a full report back to the originating
hospital within two hours. For this service, he charged the hospital $40
instead of the $400 charged by a radiologist.

Skeptical, many hospitals had the same X-ray read by this entrepreneur's
service and a staff radiologist. The differences in the two reports were
inconsequential.

Many people benefited. The inventor, of course, but also the hospital and
the patients.

But the radiologists were screwed. They complained.

The state medical board moved to charge the inventor with "Unlicensed
practice of medicine" and felonious moperty. Investigations were held.

Come to find out, there was no "magic box." The businessman was simply
forwarding the digitized X-ray to a radiologist in India who performed HIS
magic and emailed back the result.

The above story is fiction, but it could happen. If it did, how does the
"keep jobs in America" mantra hold up?

On 11/10/2010 11:05 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Nov 10, 7:25 am, wrote:
On 11/9/2010 7:53 PM, wrote:

On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 12:58:58 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Yah, sure...no problem except that in Alberta we can't even get E5 let
alone E85. We're supposed to have E5 by Dec. 13/2010 but I would bet
on it.
==

Consider yourself lucky. There are a lot more problems caused by E
fuels that get fixed by them.
It is basically a farm subsidy anyway. We are burning food in our
cars.

Sure, but it is important to keep the SUVs operating. It just wouldn't
make any sense to consider fuel efficiency when you need a fluffed up
truck to haul yourself and a large beverage around...

What's a fluffed up truck? Does my 1998 Honda CRV qualify?
I haul myself, but rarely a beverage, because when I'm driving,
I'm driving, not drinking or talking on the phone, or checking my
hair. (Quick check--yes, it's still there.)

Fluffed up truck is a vehicle built on a truck platform and sold as a
"car" such as the "yukon denali XLBG" or whatever. I think your vehicle
could fit inside the typical fluffed up truck...



Sure, I could get by most of the time with a smaller car, and
did for quite some time, but when it snows I had the devil's
own time getting out of my upward-sloping driveway, and
used to get stuck at work because my employer is too
cheap to have the parking lot plowed in a timely fashion.
I'm getting too damned old to dig my car out.

Cindy Hamilton

On 11/10/2010 9:40 AM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 11/10/10 08:00 am, wrote:

Cars run fine on CNG compressed natural gas. I have a friend who
convereted both of his vehicles back in 72 just after the first oil
crisis. Vehicles have a little less power but run fine, exhaust is
super clean. and his vehicles are pre computer. They are actually dual
fuel and run on gasoline too with the flick of one switch.

When I left Australia almost 25 years ago, many taxis and other fleet
vehicles had been converted to run on LPG/CNG (with a cylinder in the
trunk), but a large part of the savings was that LPG did not carry the
taxes that gasoline did. I don't know whether it ever came to pass, but
many people predicted that once LPG use became significant heavy taxes
would be imposed on it to match those on gasoline: the roads have to be
paid for somehow.

I have no idea about taxes on LPG in the USA.

Perce

LPG is an oil derivative so using in vehicles is just rearranging the
furniture so to speak.

Smitty Two wrote in newsrestwhich-
:

In article
,
" wrote:

if you think our economy is bad now just wait till the terrorists
strike again....

they already reclaimed the House.


you have it backwards;
the Democrats are the terrorists,the ones out to subvert the Constitution
and turn the US to socialism/communism. They are the Party of Divisiveness
and Fear.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On Nov 10, 11:30*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:
Cars run fine on CNG compressed natural gas. I have a friend who
convereted both of his vehicles back in 72 just after the first oil
crisis. Vehicles have a little less power but run fine, exhaust is
super clean. and his vehicles are pre computer. They are actually dual
fuel and run on gasoline too with the flick of one switch.

The trouble with oil, we as a nation are shipping our wea;th overseas
to buy oil from people who hate us.

We get most of our oil from Canada & Mexico; they don't hate us (well, maybe
some in Mexico...).



While we ship our jobs overseas to get them done cheap. Is it any
wonder our economy is collapsing?

Look at health care being such a BIG part of our economy. Its
percentage wouldnt be so large if we had more manufacturing.......

There's the story of the fellow who invented a magic box that could "read"
X-Rays. Hospitals would electronically transmit digitized X-Rays to him, his
box would read the X-Ray and send a full report back to the originating
hospital within two hours. For this service, he charged the hospital $40
instead of the $400 charged by a radiologist.

Skeptical, many hospitals had the same X-ray read by this entrepreneur's
service and a staff radiologist. The differences in the two reports were
inconsequential.

Many people benefited. The inventor, of course, but also the hospital and
the patients.

But the radiologists were screwed. They complained.

The state medical board moved to charge the inventor with "Unlicensed
practice of medicine" and felonious moperty. Investigations were held.

Come to find out, there was no "magic box." The businessman was simply
forwarding the digitized X-ray to a radiologist in India who performed HIS
magic and emailed back the result.

The above story is fiction, but it could happen. If it did, how does the
"keep jobs in America" mantra hold up?

Many hospitals are doing that today.. X rays and other diagnostics
read bby foreign doctors including china

On Nov 10, 1:35*pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
Smitty Two wrote in newsrestwhich-
:

In article
,
" wrote:

if you think our economy is bad now just wait till the terrorists
strike again....

they already reclaimed the House.

you have it backwards;
the Democrats are the terrorists,the ones out to subvert the Constitution
and turn the US to socialism/communism. They are the Party of Divisiveness
and Fear.

--
Jim Yan

if obama and the democrats hadnt stimulated the economy with all that
overspending we wouldnt have a bad economy today.

it would be a outright depression with unemployment over 20%

GM would be owned by china with only a few parts warehouses remaining
in ther US.

Not only would the final assembly plants be gone but so would all the
parts suppliers

On 11/10/2010 4:43 PM, wrote:
On Nov 10, 1:35 pm, Jim wrote:
Smitty wrote in newsrestwhich-
:

In article
,
wrote:

if you think our economy is bad now just wait till the terrorists
strike again....

they already reclaimed the House.

you have it backwards;
the Democrats are the terrorists,the ones out to subvert the Constitution
and turn the US to socialism/communism. They are the Party of Divisiveness
and Fear.

--
Jim Yan

if obama and the democrats hadnt stimulated the economy with all that
overspending we wouldnt have a bad economy today.

it would be a outright depression with unemployment over 20%

GM would be owned by china with only a few parts warehouses remaining
in ther US.

Not only would the final assembly plants be gone but so would all the
parts suppliers

Didn't GM sell the Hummer line to the Chinese?

TDD

On 11/10/2010 10:30 AM, HeyBub wrote:
wrote:
Cars run fine on CNG compressed natural gas. I have a friend who
convereted both of his vehicles back in 72 just after the first oil
crisis. Vehicles have a little less power but run fine, exhaust is
super clean. and his vehicles are pre computer. They are actually dual
fuel and run on gasoline too with the flick of one switch.

The trouble with oil, we as a nation are shipping our wea;th overseas
to buy oil from people who hate us.

We get most of our oil from Canada& Mexico; they don't hate us (well, maybe
some in Mexico...).


While we ship our jobs overseas to get them done cheap. Is it any
wonder our economy is collapsing?

Look at health care being such a BIG part of our economy. Its
percentage wouldnt be so large if we had more manufacturing.......


There's the story of the fellow who invented a magic box that could "read"
X-Rays. Hospitals would electronically transmit digitized X-Rays to him, his
box would read the X-Ray and send a full report back to the originating
hospital within two hours. For this service, he charged the hospital $40
instead of the $400 charged by a radiologist.

Skeptical, many hospitals had the same X-ray read by this entrepreneur's
service and a staff radiologist. The differences in the two reports were
inconsequential.

Many people benefited. The inventor, of course, but also the hospital and
the patients.

But the radiologists were screwed. They complained.

The state medical board moved to charge the inventor with "Unlicensed
practice of medicine" and felonious moperty. Investigations were held.

Come to find out, there was no "magic box." The businessman was simply
forwarding the digitized X-ray to a radiologist in India who performed HIS
magic and emailed back the result.

The above story is fiction, but it could happen. If it did, how does the
"keep jobs in America" mantra hold up?



Perhaps someday, India and China will outsource tech support to The U.S.
which shouldn't be a problem since there are more Chinese who speak
English than Americans. 8-)

TDD

"Roy" wrote in message
...
==
Yah, sure...no problem except that in Alberta we can't even get E5 let
alone E85. We're supposed to have E5 by Dec. 13/2010 but I would bet
on it.


I think it's covered in the extradition treaty

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article
,
" wrote:

if you think our economy is bad now just wait till the terrorists
strike again....

they already reclaimed the House.

Who is this?

wrote:

if obama and the democrats hadnt stimulated the economy with all that
overspending we wouldnt have a bad economy today.

it would be a outright depression with unemployment over 20%


Better to be in a depression with 20% unemployment that what we've got. We
know how to fix a depression.

On 11/11/2010 6:22 AM, HeyBub wrote:
wrote:

if obama and the democrats hadnt stimulated the economy with all that
overspending we wouldnt have a bad economy today.

it would be a outright depression with unemployment over 20%


Better to be in a depression with 20% unemployment that what we've got. We
know how to fix a depression.



We have better drugs to treat depression these days. :-)

TDD

"Ala" wrote in
m:


"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article
,
" wrote:

if you think our economy is bad now just wait till the terrorists
strike again....

they already reclaimed the House.

Who is this?



hallerb is just venting his insanity.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Better to be in a depression with 20% unemployment that what we've got. We
know how to fix a depression.

so do tell how do you fix a depression? details please

On Nov 11, 10:54*am, wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 07:25:55 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
so do tell how do you fix a depression? details please

Quite simple, you start a mechanized world war that causes every
industrialized country on the planet to build massive numbers of
tanks, ships and other hardware that you immediately blow up.
Unfortunately the atomic bomb pretty much eliminated that option.

Yep no WW3 will get us out of a depression.

So what other solutions do you have?

On Nov 9, 3:58*pm, Roy wrote:
On Nov 9, 1:35*pm, "........" wrote:





Dear Everyone,
as you know the price of the Oil is more and more increasing, while
the oil supply is decreasing. Moreover Oil
is causing wars, terror, oil spills and a lot of greenhouse gases.
By upgrading your car to flex fuel, you will continue to be able to
use oil. However you will also have the
opportunity to use E85, that means more freedom of choice. The
conversion cost is about 200-250 USD.
By choosing ethanol, you choose local fuel production, which means
labour for farmers, labour for enginneers
and workers in the ethanol plant, labour for transportation. Moreover
you also help for indirect labour. Since
the money stays in your country, this money will turn and produce
indirect labour. Since the farmer will gain
your additional fuel money, he will buy other things (labour is again
needed for their production), which in case
of oil the oil-Sheikhs or their people would do.
That ethanol production increases the food prices is also not totally
right, first there is a by-product called
"distillers dried grains with solubles", which is used as feed for
livestock, that is also nothing else than
food. Moreover, by using ethanol, you put pressure on oil prices,
which has also an important effect on food
prices. You also give your money for more research (again labour),
which will yield in higher efficiency of
production and alternative production methods like cellulosic ethanol,
which will change the whole equation.
Again in case of oil this money would be spent for oil rigs, oil-
infrastructure, but also for weapons to
defend the oil.
By using ethanol, you produce less CO2, since it is produced by corn,
which actually consumed the CO2 in the air
for its growing. The more people use ethanol, the higher the
efficiencies will come for production (similar to
solar cells). The prices will go further down, and much less CO2 will
be produced during production in the plant.
Do you know that the production efficiencies already improved 30% ?*
Another reason for using ethanol is that oil prices will come up
again, when the barrel price of 150 USD is back
you will be very happy to have your vehicle converted. The conversion
also increases the value of your vehicle.

Yours sincerely.

Sources:
*http://brownfieldagnews.com/2010/09/...on-efficiency-
improves/

==
Yah, sure...no problem except that in Alberta we can't even get E5 let
alone E85. We're supposed to have E5 by Dec. 13/2010 but I would bet
on it.
==

Here in NoVA I actually have a flex fuel car as my company heaver but
it's never had anything but E10 in it. Can't get 100% gasoline
anymore, but can't get E85 either. I can't remember ever seeing a
fuel station selling E85 in my whole life. I might run a tank through
if I could get it, just to keep everything clean.

Besides, at least as of a couple years ago, growing corn for fuel
ethanol was pretty much a wash in terms of "saving the planet" - most
of the equivalent amounts of fossil fuels that would be replaced by
the ethanol were used in the *production* of the ethanol, and some
studies showed that burning ethanol actually *increased* our
dependence on fossil fuels.

nate

On Nov 10, 7:37*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
I havn't got any proof. But, I think it's possible that the farming,
transporting, and distilling uses more energy than what the ethanol
produces. So, we may be actually increasing our consumption of fossil
fuels.

There was a big feature in I think Smithsonian? Or Nat'l Geographic?
a couple years ago that said just that. In some cases you're right,
in some cases it's a wash, and in a very few cases E-fuels actually
showed a net benefit. Now that is only true for the US; in South
America where you can grow sugar cane it definitely is worthwhile to
use ethanol instead of gasoline.

I hope that things have changed since then as I really would like to
see a viable alternative to fossil fuels...

nate

On 11/10/2010 5:39 PM, wrote:
On Nov 10, 11:30 am, wrote:
wrote:
Cars run fine on CNG compressed natural gas. I have a friend who
convereted both of his vehicles back in 72 just after the first oil
crisis. Vehicles have a little less power but run fine, exhaust is
super clean. and his vehicles are pre computer. They are actually dual
fuel and run on gasoline too with the flick of one switch.

The trouble with oil, we as a nation are shipping our wea;th overseas
to buy oil from people who hate us.

We get most of our oil from Canada& Mexico; they don't hate us (well, maybe
some in Mexico...).



While we ship our jobs overseas to get them done cheap. Is it any
wonder our economy is collapsing?

Look at health care being such a BIG part of our economy. Its
percentage wouldnt be so large if we had more manufacturing.......

There's the story of the fellow who invented a magic box that could "read"
X-Rays. Hospitals would electronically transmit digitized X-Rays to him, his
box would read the X-Ray and send a full report back to the originating
hospital within two hours. For this service, he charged the hospital $40
instead of the $400 charged by a radiologist.

Skeptical, many hospitals had the same X-ray read by this entrepreneur's
service and a staff radiologist. The differences in the two reports were
inconsequential.

Many people benefited. The inventor, of course, but also the hospital and
the patients.

But the radiologists were screwed. They complained.

The state medical board moved to charge the inventor with "Unlicensed
practice of medicine" and felonious moperty. Investigations were held.

Come to find out, there was no "magic box." The businessman was simply
forwarding the digitized X-ray to a radiologist in India who performed HIS
magic and emailed back the result.

The above story is fiction, but it could happen. If it did, how does the
"keep jobs in America" mantra hold up?

Many hospitals are doing that today.. X rays and other diagnostics
read bby foreign doctors including china

Well it is important to note the poster of the "magic box" story.

We have two local hospital systems and both have minimal staff
radiologists during the day and at other times and for routine stuff
their offshore contract radiologists do the work.

Nothing new and has been going on for a long time.

On 11/11/10 12:47 pm, N8N wrote:

I havn't got any proof. But, I think it's possible that the farming,
transporting, and distilling uses more energy than what the ethanol
produces. So, we may be actually increasing our consumption of fossil
fuels.

There was a big feature in I think Smithsonian? Or Nat'l Geographic?
a couple years ago that said just that. In some cases you're right,
in some cases it's a wash, and in a very few cases E-fuels actually
showed a net benefit. Now that is only true for the US; in South
America where you can grow sugar cane it definitely is worthwhile to
use ethanol instead of gasoline.

I hope that things have changed since then as I really would like to
see a viable alternative to fossil fuels...

The 5% alcohol in the 50-years-ago-in-UK "Cleveland Distol" I mentioned
up-thread was a product of The Distillers Company, which owned many of
the well-known brands of whisky and gin, so I am *assuming* (I know, I
know) that the automotive ethanol was a by-product of their booze business.

Perce

On 11/10/2010 5:43 PM, wrote:
On Nov 10, 1:35 pm, Jim wrote:
Smitty wrote in newsrestwhich-
:

In article
,
wrote:

if you think our economy is bad now just wait till the terrorists
strike again....

they already reclaimed the House.

you have it backwards;
the Democrats are the terrorists,the ones out to subvert the Constitution
and turn the US to socialism/communism. They are the Party of Divisiveness
and Fear.

--
Jim Yan

if obama and the democrats hadnt stimulated the economy with all that
overspending we wouldnt have a bad economy today.

it would be a outright depression with unemployment over 20%

GM would be owned by china with only a few parts warehouses remaining
in ther US.

Not only would the final assembly plants be gone but so would all the
parts suppliers

You are only spouting the official "too big to fail" marketing campaign.
Many (including me) think it was unnecessary and it that it really sent
the wrong message instead of letting many learn a lesson.

That was one of the reason I voted to fire our Congressman (he will now
be a former Congressman in a few weeks) who was one of the biggest
cheerleaders for "too big to fail".

On 11/10/2010 7:06 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 11/10/2010 4:43 PM, wrote:
On Nov 10, 1:35 pm, Jim wrote:
Smitty wrote in newsrestwhich-
:

In article
,
wrote:

if you think our economy is bad now just wait till the terrorists
strike again....

they already reclaimed the House.

you have it backwards;
the Democrats are the terrorists,the ones out to subvert the
Constitution
and turn the US to socialism/communism. They are the Party of
Divisiveness
and Fear.

--
Jim Yan

if obama and the democrats hadnt stimulated the economy with all that
overspending we wouldnt have a bad economy today.

it would be a outright depression with unemployment over 20%

GM would be owned by china with only a few parts warehouses remaining
in ther US.

Not only would the final assembly plants be gone but so would all the
parts suppliers

Didn't GM sell the Hummer line to the Chinese?

TDD

They tried but common sense kicked in and they realized it was the
dumbest vehicle (not the real ones, the ones sold to people apparently
trying to compensate for other inadequacies) ever made and walked away
from the table.