My central AC a 1996 Lennox 3 ton stopped blowing air yesterday, I
looked at the air handler coil and it was frozen, filter is new and a
4" so I let it thaw and ran it without the filter thinking added
airflow would help. In about 40 minutes it froze again. Airflow
unfrozen hasnt changed, its the same out the vents as always so I dont
think the blower is bad or any restrictions. When an old unit leaks
freon is that usualy the end of life of the compressor or air handler,
is it often possible or easy to find and fix a leak without spending
alot. I will call a tech today and I hope the leak is small enough
that it will last the year but a few days ago it was fine. Will I
damage anything running it low on freon for about 30 minute cycles
till it starts to freeze and let it thaw, a bit of cool air still
comes out.

"ransley" wrote in message
...
My central AC a 1996 Lennox 3 ton stopped blowing air yesterday, I
looked at the air handler coil and it was frozen, filter is new and a
4" so I let it thaw and ran it without the filter thinking added
airflow would help. In about 40 minutes it froze again. Airflow
unfrozen hasnt changed, its the same out the vents as always so I dont
think the blower is bad or any restrictions. When an old unit leaks
freon is that usualy the end of life of the compressor or air handler,
is it often possible or easy to find and fix a leak without spending
alot. I will call a tech today and I hope the leak is small enough
that it will last the year but a few days ago it was fine. Will I
damage anything running it low on freon for about 30 minute cycles
till it starts to freeze and let it thaw, a bit of cool air still
comes out.

That is a classic symptom of 1) Dirty filter, reduced airflow, 2) low Freon.
I think you eliminated #1.

If it has never been filled before a charge should at least last the rest of
the summer and maybe longer. The units continue to work as the level of
Freon drops and then all of a sudden they cross the threshold. Of course if
you sprang a big leak it might not last a week.

Most likely it has failed at the evap coil. The bad news is that new
replacement evap coils are no longer legally sold so you get screwed into
buying a whole new system. Who knows, you might get lucky and it is leaking
at a screwed connection.

Your call, but this late in the season I would gas up and gamble. I did
that last year in July and made it all the way mid-May of this year. $175
service call and gas bought me a year.

Running as is uses more juice for the same cool but otherwise causes no
problems since you have to replace it all anyway. Setting the fan for
continuous run will add to your comfort level.


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

On Jul 30, 8:28*am, "Colbyt" wrote:
"ransley" wrote in message

...

My central AC a 1996 Lennox 3 ton stopped blowing air yesterday, I
looked at the air handler coil and it was frozen, filter is new and a
4" so I let it thaw and ran it without the filter thinking added
airflow would help. In about 40 minutes it froze again. Airflow
unfrozen hasnt changed, its the same out the vents as always so I dont
think the blower is bad or any restrictions. When an old unit leaks
freon is that usualy the end of life of the compressor or air handler,
is it often possible or easy to find and fix a leak without spending
alot. I will call a tech today and I hope the leak is small enough
that it will last the year but a few days ago it was fine. Will I
damage anything running it low on freon for about 30 minute cycles
till it starts to freeze and let it thaw, a bit of cool air still
comes out.

That is a classic symptom of 1) Dirty filter, reduced airflow, 2) low Freon.
I think you eliminated #1.

If it has never been filled before a charge should at least last the rest of
the summer and maybe longer. *The units continue to work as the level of
Freon drops and then all of a sudden they cross the threshold. Of course if
you sprang a big leak it might not last a week.

Most likely it has failed at the evap coil. *The bad news is that new
replacement evap coils are no longer legally sold so you get screwed into
buying a whole new system. Who knows, you might get lucky and it is leaking
at a screwed connection.

Your call, *but this late in the season I would gas up and gamble. *I did
that last year in July and made it all the way mid-May of this year. $175
service call and gas bought me a year.

Running as is uses more juice for the same cool but otherwise causes no
problems since you have to replace it all anyway. *Setting the fan for
continuous run will add to your comfort level.

--
Colbyt
Please come visithttp://www.househomerepair.com

I agree. Most probably low freon. I've never heard any business
about not selling replacement A coils before so color me skeptical on
that. A good service company will have a leak detector and should be
able to find anything but the very small leaks. If it is very small
them charging it once a year often is enough. Many leaks are easily
repaired. But any complicated repair will force you to consider a
replacement system given the age.

It won't hurt it to run it for brief periods as long as you shut it
down when it the coil begins to freeze. Problem is that will happen
pretty quickly unless you are in a dry location.

On 7/30/2010 7:00 AM, ransley wrote:
My central AC a 1996 Lennox 3 ton stopped blowing air yesterday, I
looked at the air handler coil and it was frozen, filter is new and a
4" so I let it thaw and ran it without the filter thinking added
airflow would help. In about 40 minutes it froze again. Airflow
unfrozen hasnt changed, its the same out the vents as always so I dont
think the blower is bad or any restrictions. When an old unit leaks
freon is that usualy the end of life of the compressor or air handler,
is it often possible or easy to find and fix a leak without spending
alot. I will call a tech today and I hope the leak is small enough
that it will last the year but a few days ago it was fine. Will I
damage anything running it low on freon for about 30 minute cycles
till it starts to freeze and let it thaw, a bit of cool air still
comes out.

It could be something as simple as leaking valve cores in the
Schrader service valves. I've seen leaks develop years later
because the valve cores were not tightened at the factory or
the installation tech didn't tighten the cores enough when
reinstalling them. Tiny leaks can be handled by a product I've
had good luck with manufactured by Cliplight called SUPER SEAL HVACR.
It's a stop leak for AC systems.

http://www.cliplight.com/hvacr/produ...27&upperCatID=

TDD

On Jul 30, 9:25*am, The Daring Dufas
wrote:
On 7/30/2010 7:00 AM, ransley wrote:

My central AC a 1996 Lennox 3 ton stopped blowing air yesterday, I
looked at the air handler coil and it was frozen, filter is new and a
4" so I let it thaw and ran it without the filter thinking added
airflow would help. In about 40 minutes it froze again. Airflow
unfrozen hasnt changed, its the same out the vents as always so I dont
think the blower is bad or any restrictions. When an old unit leaks
freon is that usualy the end of life of the compressor or air handler,
is it often possible or easy to find and fix a leak without spending
alot. I will call a tech today and I hope the leak is small enough
that it will last the year but a few days ago it was fine. Will I
damage anything running it low on freon for about 30 minute cycles
till it starts to freeze and let it thaw, a bit of cool air still
comes out.

It could be something as simple as leaking valve cores in the
Schrader service valves. I've seen leaks develop years later
because the valve cores were not tightened at the factory or
the installation tech didn't tighten the cores enough when
reinstalling them. Tiny leaks can be handled by a product I've
had good luck with manufactured by Cliplight called SUPER SEAL HVACR.
It's a stop leak for AC systems.

http://www.cliplight.com/hvacr/produ...27&upperCatID=

TDD

Professional opinions are mixed on "sealers". Many techs shy away
from them.

Colbyt wrote:

Most likely it has failed at the evap coil. The bad news is that new
replacement evap coils are no longer legally sold so you get screwed
into buying a whole new system. Who knows, you might get lucky and it
is leaking at a screwed connection.

I think you may be confused. In most places it is illegal for a scrap dealer
to buy a used evaporator coil - because the thieves have been chopping them
loose to sell for scrap - but a homeowner can still buy a new one.

On Jul 30, 10:50*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Colbyt wrote:

Most likely it has failed at the evap coil. *The bad news is that new
replacement evap coils are no longer legally sold so you get screwed
into buying a whole new system. Who knows, you might get lucky and it
is leaking at a screwed connection.

I think you may be confused. In most places it is illegal for a scrap dealer
to buy a used evaporator coil - because the thieves have been chopping them
loose to sell for scrap - but a homeowner can still buy a new one.

That does make more sense.

In any case find the leak if possible first. If they can't find it,
charge the system and see how long it lasts. Charging once a year may
fit better with your situation if you need to get by for a few more
years. It is normally a small amount of loss to cause the evap temps
to drop below freezing, sometimes just a few ounces. Beyond that the
system stops cooling completely.

On Jul 30, 9:58*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jul 30, 10:50*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

Colbyt wrote:

Most likely it has failed at the evap coil. *The bad news is that new
replacement evap coils are no longer legally sold so you get screwed
into buying a whole new system. Who knows, you might get lucky and it
is leaking at a screwed connection.

I think you may be confused. In most places it is illegal for a scrap dealer
to buy a used evaporator coil - because the thieves have been chopping them
loose to sell for scrap - but a homeowner can still buy a new one.

That does make more sense.

In any case find the leak if possible first. *If they can't find it,
charge the system and see how long it lasts. *Charging once a year may
fit better with your situation if you need to get by for a few more
years. *It is normally a small amount of loss to cause the evap temps
to drop below freezing, sometimes just a few ounces. *Beyond that the
system stops cooling completely.

I got lucky a few minutes ago, the tech came out fast, and a big leak
was found on the copper elbow on a pipe comming out at the top of the
compressor, so a guy is comming back to braise it. Even more lucky
since he wanted 300$ to use his sniffer to do a leak test, I heard it
comming out and first try hit the leak with my finger, its a big leak
and I saw vapor. But he said they will replace the pipe, why cant they
remove and clean and reuse what is there? 300 for a leak test? I bet
it will be, hope no more than 500 for a brazing and refill, he said
the system must be evacuated to braise it, so does 500 seem about the
price they will charge, maybe I should call for a price first. Well at
least its not looking like a new unit which would have to be next
year, and im lucky since its 72 out, the coolest day in a over a month

On Jul 30, 11:56*am, ransley wrote:
On Jul 30, 9:58*am, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Jul 30, 10:50*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

Colbyt wrote:

Most likely it has failed at the evap coil. *The bad news is that new
replacement evap coils are no longer legally sold so you get screwed
into buying a whole new system. Who knows, you might get lucky and it
is leaking at a screwed connection.

I think you may be confused. In most places it is illegal for a scrap dealer
to buy a used evaporator coil - because the thieves have been chopping them
loose to sell for scrap - but a homeowner can still buy a new one.

That does make more sense.

In any case find the leak if possible first. *If they can't find it,
charge the system and see how long it lasts. *Charging once a year may
fit better with your situation if you need to get by for a few more
years. *It is normally a small amount of loss to cause the evap temps
to drop below freezing, sometimes just a few ounces. *Beyond that the
system stops cooling completely.

I got lucky a few minutes ago, the tech came out fast, and a big leak
was found on the copper elbow on a pipe comming out at the top of the
compressor, so a guy is comming back to braise it. Even more lucky
since he wanted 300$ to use his sniffer to do a leak test, I heard it
comming out and first try hit the leak with my finger, its a big leak
and I saw vapor. But he said they will replace the pipe, why cant they
remove and clean and reuse what is there? *300 for a leak test? I bet
it will be, hope no more than 500 for a brazing and refill, he said
the system must be evacuated to braise it, so does 500 seem about the
price they will charge, maybe I should call for a price first. Well at
least its not looking like a new unit which would have to be next
year, and im lucky since its 72 out, the coolest day in a over a month- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It does have to be evacuated to be brazed. But you probably don't
have much left if it was leaking that much. As a diy'r I'd just fix
the leak without replacing any pipe. But I can see that a pro might
be conncerned that the elbow has stress issues or was thin somewhere.
Remember anything that he does, he's not going to have to want to
explain that a new leak a inch away was not his fault.

On Jul 30, 8:56*am, ransley wrote:
On Jul 30, 9:58*am, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Jul 30, 10:50*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

Colbyt wrote:

Most likely it has failed at the evap coil. *The bad news is that new
replacement evap coils are no longer legally sold so you get screwed
into buying a whole new system. Who knows, you might get lucky and it
is leaking at a screwed connection.

I think you may be confused. In most places it is illegal for a scrap dealer
to buy a used evaporator coil - because the thieves have been chopping them
loose to sell for scrap - but a homeowner can still buy a new one.

That does make more sense.

In any case find the leak if possible first. *If they can't find it,
charge the system and see how long it lasts. *Charging once a year may
fit better with your situation if you need to get by for a few more
years. *It is normally a small amount of loss to cause the evap temps
to drop below freezing, sometimes just a few ounces. *Beyond that the
system stops cooling completely.

I got lucky a few minutes ago, the tech came out fast, and a big leak
was found on the copper elbow on a pipe comming out at the top of the
compressor, so a guy is comming back to braise it. Even more lucky
since he wanted 300$ to use his sniffer to do a leak test, I heard it
comming out and first try hit the leak with my finger, its a big leak
and I saw vapor. But he said they will replace the pipe, why cant they
remove and clean and reuse what is there? *300 for a leak test? I bet
it will be, hope no more than 500 for a brazing and refill, he said
the system must be evacuated to braise it, so does 500 seem about the
price they will charge, maybe I should call for a price first. Well at
least its not looking like a new unit which would have to be next
year, and im lucky since its 72 out, the coolest day in a over a month- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just make sure that they thoroughly evacuate the system before it is
re-charged. Many technicians will not take the time and it does take a
few hours. The best way is to evacuate and then put in some nitrogen
and then evacuate again and repeat.

On Jul 30, 1:13*pm, Molly Brown wrote:
On Jul 30, 8:56*am, ransley wrote:





On Jul 30, 9:58*am, jamesgangnc wrote:

On Jul 30, 10:50*am, "HeyBub" wrote:

Colbyt wrote:

Most likely it has failed at the evap coil. *The bad news is that new
replacement evap coils are no longer legally sold so you get screwed
into buying a whole new system. Who knows, you might get lucky and it
is leaking at a screwed connection.

I think you may be confused. In most places it is illegal for a scrap dealer
to buy a used evaporator coil - because the thieves have been chopping them
loose to sell for scrap - but a homeowner can still buy a new one.

That does make more sense.

In any case find the leak if possible first. *If they can't find it,
charge the system and see how long it lasts. *Charging once a year may
fit better with your situation if you need to get by for a few more
years. *It is normally a small amount of loss to cause the evap temps
to drop below freezing, sometimes just a few ounces. *Beyond that the
system stops cooling completely.

I got lucky a few minutes ago, the tech came out fast, and a big leak
was found on the copper elbow on a pipe comming out at the top of the
compressor, so a guy is comming back to braise it. Even more lucky
since he wanted 300$ to use his sniffer to do a leak test, I heard it
comming out and first try hit the leak with my finger, its a big leak
and I saw vapor. But he said they will replace the pipe, why cant they
remove and clean and reuse what is there? *300 for a leak test? I bet
it will be, hope no more than 500 for a brazing and refill, he said
the system must be evacuated to braise it, so does 500 seem about the
price they will charge, maybe I should call for a price first. Well at
least its not looking like a new unit which would have to be next
year, and im lucky since its 72 out, the coolest day in a over a month- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Just make sure that they thoroughly evacuate the system before it is
re-charged. Many technicians will not take the time and it does take a
few hours. The best way is to evacuate and then put in some nitrogen
and then evacuate again and repeat.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That ain't happening. It's a 96 system. The op is not going to want
to pay that many hours. Run some nitrogen while brazing, pull a
vacuum, and charge.

Wow, you guys can't help it if I don't charge enough. 300 for a leak
check, and 500 to fix one braze joint, and refil the system? Eight
c'notes sounds like a lot of money, to me.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"ransley" wrote in message
...

I got lucky a few minutes ago, the tech came out fast, and a big leak
was found on the copper elbow on a pipe comming out at the top of the
compressor, so a guy is comming back to braise it. Even more lucky
since he wanted 300$ to use his sniffer to do a leak test, I heard it
comming out and first try hit the leak with my finger, its a big leak
and I saw vapor. But he said they will replace the pipe, why cant they
remove and clean and reuse what is there? 300 for a leak test? I bet
it will be, hope no more than 500 for a brazing and refill, he said
the system must be evacuated to braise it, so does 500 seem about the
price they will charge, maybe I should call for a price first. Well at
least its not looking like a new unit which would have to be next
year, and im lucky since its 72 out, the coolest day in a over a month

Only a concern if the suction pressure is below atmospheric.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Molly Brown" wrote in message
...

Just make sure that they thoroughly evacuate the system before it is
re-charged. Many technicians will not take the time and it does take a
few hours. The best way is to evacuate and then put in some nitrogen
and then evacuate again and repeat.

Of course, you (not confused, are you?) realize the evaporator is
indoors, in most applications. Second, evaporators are typically only
sold to ACR guys. I'm sure they can be found on the net, though.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

I think you may be confused. In most places it is illegal for a scrap
dealer
to buy a used evaporator coil - because the thieves have been chopping
them
loose to sell for scrap - but a homeowner can still buy a new one.

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Wow, you guys can't help it if I don't charge enough. 300 for a leak
check, and 500 to fix one braze joint, and refil the system? Eight
c'notes sounds like a lot of money, to me.

Considering that they legally have to drag a refrigerant recovery
machine out to recover the refrigerant from the system before they can
braze it, and the recovery process takes some time, then they have to
evacuate the system and recharge it, it's probably not a lot of money.

On Jul 30, 2:28*pm, "Pete C." wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:

Wow, you guys can't help it if I don't charge enough. 300 for a leak
check, and 500 to fix one braze joint, and refil the system? Eight
c'notes sounds like a lot of money, to me.

Considering that they legally have to drag a refrigerant recovery
machine out to recover the refrigerant from the system before they can
braze it, and the recovery process takes some time, then they have to
evacuate the system and recharge it, it's probably not a lot of money.

No, it is a bit high. Doesn't take all that long to pump the
remaining down into the compressor. Then recover what's left if any
in the lines. Then braze, vacuum, and charge. Unless there is some
other issues 2 or 3 hours max.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Colbyt wrote:

Most likely it has failed at the evap coil. The bad news is that new
replacement evap coils are no longer legally sold so you get screwed
into buying a whole new system. Who knows, you might get lucky and it
is leaking at a screwed connection.

I think you may be confused. In most places it is illegal for a scrap
dealer to buy a used evaporator coil - because the thieves have been
chopping them loose to sell for scrap - but a homeowner can still buy a
new one.



Man, at least this one, should always have one cup of coffee before posting
anything!

You can still buy replacement evap coils. It is the condenser units you
can not buy.

Sounds like the OP won the lottery if that is the only leak in the system.
I have experienced to evap coil failures on two 1995 systems about 2 years
apart.

Also replaced the evap coil in my 1996 Nissan twice now. I am of the
opinion that the evap coil making process has gone way downhill in the last
20 years.


--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

On Jul 30, 12:54*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Wow, you guys can't help it if I don't charge enough. 300 for a leak
check, and 500 to fix one braze joint, and refil the system? Eight
c'notes sounds like a lot of money, to me.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"ransley" wrote in message

...

I got lucky a few minutes ago, the tech came out fast, and a big leak
was found on the copper elbow on a pipe comming out at the top of the
compressor, so a guy is comming back to braise it. Even more lucky
since he wanted 300$ to use his sniffer to do a leak test, I heard it
comming out and first try hit the leak with my finger, its a big leak
and I saw vapor. But he said they will replace the pipe, why cant they
remove and clean and reuse what is there? *300 for a leak test? I bet
it will be, hope no more than 500 for a brazing and refill, he said
the system must be evacuated to braise it, so does 500 seem about the
price they will charge, maybe I should call for a price first. Well at
least its not looking like a new unit which would have to be next
year, and im lucky since its 72 out, the coolest day in a over a month

too much money, a rip off, a friend could do it for 200 he said but he
is in another state.

On Jul 30, 1:59*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jul 30, 2:28*pm, "Pete C." wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Wow, you guys can't help it if I don't charge enough. 300 for a leak
check, and 500 to fix one braze joint, and refil the system? Eight
c'notes sounds like a lot of money, to me.

Considering that they legally have to drag a refrigerant recovery
machine out to recover the refrigerant from the system before they can
braze it, and the recovery process takes some time, then they have to
evacuate the system and recharge it, it's probably not a lot of money.

No, it is a bit high. *Doesn't take all that long to pump the
remaining down into the compressor. *Then recover what's left if any
in the lines. *Then braze, vacuum, and charge. *Unless there is some
other issues 2 or 3 hours max.

What should the job cost, I have a quote of 470 for the total job, the
initial service trip and tomorrow another tech come by to fix the leak
and recharge it. I am having them do it since they installed it, are a
quality company and warranty the repair. But its like anything else,
you charge what the market bears - what ever you can get.

On Jul 30, 3:25*pm, "Colbyt" wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

m...

Colbyt wrote:

Most likely it has failed at the evap coil. *The bad news is that new
replacement evap coils are no longer legally sold so you get screwed
into buying a whole new system. Who knows, you might get lucky and it
is leaking at a screwed connection.

I think you may be confused. In most places it is illegal for a scrap
dealer to buy a used evaporator coil - because the thieves have been
chopping them loose to sell for scrap - but a homeowner can still buy a
new one.

Man, at least this one, *should always have one cup of coffee before posting
anything!

You can still buy replacement *evap coils. *It is the condenser units you
can not buy.

Sounds like the OP won the lottery if that is the only leak in the system..
I have experienced to evap coil failures on two 1995 systems about 2 years
apart.

Also replaced the evap coil in my 1996 Nissan twice now. *I am of the
opinion that the evap coil making process *has gone way downhill in the last
20 years.

--
Colbyt
Please come visithttp://www.househomerepair.com

I hope its the only leak, its a big one though, I hope I end up lucky
or its no Ac for the rest of the year.

On Jul 30, 5:14*pm, ransley wrote:
On Jul 30, 1:59*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:





On Jul 30, 2:28*pm, "Pete C." wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Wow, you guys can't help it if I don't charge enough. 300 for a leak
check, and 500 to fix one braze joint, and refil the system? Eight
c'notes sounds like a lot of money, to me.

Considering that they legally have to drag a refrigerant recovery
machine out to recover the refrigerant from the system before they can
braze it, and the recovery process takes some time, then they have to
evacuate the system and recharge it, it's probably not a lot of money..

No, it is a bit high. *Doesn't take all that long to pump the
remaining down into the compressor. *Then recover what's left if any
in the lines. *Then braze, vacuum, and charge. *Unless there is some
other issues 2 or 3 hours max.

What should the job cost, I have a quote of 470 for the total job, the
initial service trip and tomorrow another tech come by to fix the leak
and recharge it. I am having them do it since they installed it, are a
quality company and warranty the repair. But its like anything else,
you charge what the market bears - what ever you can get.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's acceptable. It might seem a little high but they're including
the initial trip. If you don't go with them they are going to hand
you a bill for $100 to $150 for the first trip.

"ransley" wrote in message
...
On Jul 30, 1:59 pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jul 30, 2:28 pm, "Pete C." wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Wow, you guys can't help it if I don't charge enough. 300 for a leak
check, and 500 to fix one braze joint, and refil the system? Eight
c'notes sounds like a lot of money, to me.

Considering that they legally have to drag a refrigerant recovery
machine out to recover the refrigerant from the system before they can
braze it, and the recovery process takes some time, then they have to
evacuate the system and recharge it, it's probably not a lot of money.

No, it is a bit high. Doesn't take all that long to pump the
remaining down into the compressor. Then recover what's left if any
in the lines. Then braze, vacuum, and charge. Unless there is some
other issues 2 or 3 hours max.

What should the job cost, I have a quote of 470 for the total job, the
initial service trip and tomorrow another tech come by to fix the leak
and recharge it. I am having them do it since they installed it, are a
quality company and warranty the repair. But its like anything else,
you charge what the market bears - what ever you can get.

470 is fair price if he does the job as it should be done!!!!!



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

"ransley" wrote in message
...
On Jul 30, 3:25 pm, "Colbyt" wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

m...

Colbyt wrote:

Most likely it has failed at the evap coil. The bad news is that new
replacement evap coils are no longer legally sold so you get screwed
into buying a whole new system. Who knows, you might get lucky and it
is leaking at a screwed connection.

I think you may be confused. In most places it is illegal for a scrap
dealer to buy a used evaporator coil - because the thieves have been
chopping them loose to sell for scrap - but a homeowner can still buy a
new one.

Man, at least this one, should always have one cup of coffee before
posting
anything!

You can still buy replacement evap coils. It is the condenser units you
can not buy.

Sounds like the OP won the lottery if that is the only leak in the system.
I have experienced to evap coil failures on two 1995 systems about 2 years
apart.

Also replaced the evap coil in my 1996 Nissan twice now. I am of the
opinion that the evap coil making process has gone way downhill in the
last
20 years.

--
Colbyt
Please come visithttp://www.househomerepair.com

I hope its the only leak, its a big one though, I hope I end up lucky
or its no Ac for the rest of the year.

LEAK THAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING SYSTEM SHOULD
BE EMPTY IN COUPLE OURS? good luck



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

I could do it for $190, but I'm in another state.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"ransley" wrote in message
...

too much money, a rip off, a friend could do it for 200 he said but he
is in another state.

House call. Three or four hours labor. They may want to recover all
the old freon and put in all new freon. I'm not sure what others
charge. But, I'd work it out as 60 trip charge (local to me). $50 an
hour labor, and $30 a pound for refrigerant. That could total out $400
without too much effort. Sounds like they aren't too far off. It's
still a pile of money.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"ransley" wrote in message
...


What should the job cost, I have a quote of 470 for the total job, the
initial service trip and tomorrow another tech come by to fix the leak
and recharge it. I am having them do it since they installed it, are a
quality company and warranty the repair. But its like anything else,
you charge what the market bears - what ever you can get.

Pete C. wrote:
Stormin Mormon wrote:

Wow, you guys can't help it if I don't charge enough. 300 for a leak
check, and 500 to fix one braze joint, and refil the system? Eight
c'notes sounds like a lot of money, to me.

Considering that they legally have to drag a refrigerant recovery
machine out to recover the refrigerant from the system before they can
braze it, and the recovery process takes some time, then they have to
evacuate the system and recharge it, it's probably not a lot of money.

But there's bargains to be had.

My ten-year-old Trane bellied up and washed ashore during hurricane Yikes.
My son has a neighbor (Guatemalan if that makes any difference) who
moonlights off the books. Being in the business, he found a two-year old
condensing unit, brought it over at 8:00 p.m., installed the unit (including
brazing a couple of joints), evacuated (I guess sort of) the system, and
recharged it. He was done by 10:00 p.m. and I was out $700.

Been working swell these two years.

It might pay to, um, "inquire" around. (I'm in Houston if you want my tech's
name...)

On 7/30/2010 9:17 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jul 30, 9:25 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 7/30/2010 7:00 AM, ransley wrote:

My central AC a 1996 Lennox 3 ton stopped blowing air yesterday, I
looked at the air handler coil and it was frozen, filter is new and a
4" so I let it thaw and ran it without the filter thinking added
airflow would help. In about 40 minutes it froze again. Airflow
unfrozen hasnt changed, its the same out the vents as always so I dont
think the blower is bad or any restrictions. When an old unit leaks
freon is that usualy the end of life of the compressor or air handler,
is it often possible or easy to find and fix a leak without spending
alot. I will call a tech today and I hope the leak is small enough
that it will last the year but a few days ago it was fine. Will I
damage anything running it low on freon for about 30 minute cycles
till it starts to freeze and let it thaw, a bit of cool air still
comes out.

It could be something as simple as leaking valve cores in the
Schrader service valves. I've seen leaks develop years later
because the valve cores were not tightened at the factory or
the installation tech didn't tighten the cores enough when
reinstalling them. Tiny leaks can be handled by a product I've
had good luck with manufactured by Cliplight called SUPER SEAL HVACR.
It's a stop leak for AC systems.

http://www.cliplight.com/hvacr/produ...27&upperCatID=

TDD

Professional opinions are mixed on "sealers". Many techs shy away
from them.

Many techs don't know how to properly use them and like most folks
are afraid of something different. I most definitely don't push
sealers as a cure all and prefer brazing up a hole in a system but
some tiny leaks respond very well to the sealer I've used. I'm also
fond of UV florescent dye for finding tiny leaks. I've used it to
find pinhole sized leaks in many refrigeration and AC systems.

TDD

On 7/30/2010 4:14 PM, ransley wrote:
On Jul 30, 1:59 pm, wrote:
On Jul 30, 2:28 pm, "Pete wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Wow, you guys can't help it if I don't charge enough. 300 for a leak
check, and 500 to fix one braze joint, and refil the system? Eight
c'notes sounds like a lot of money, to me.

Considering that they legally have to drag a refrigerant recovery
machine out to recover the refrigerant from the system before they can
braze it, and the recovery process takes some time, then they have to
evacuate the system and recharge it, it's probably not a lot of money.

No, it is a bit high. Doesn't take all that long to pump the
remaining down into the compressor. Then recover what's left if any
in the lines. Then braze, vacuum, and charge. Unless there is some
other issues 2 or 3 hours max.

What should the job cost, I have a quote of 470 for the total job, the
initial service trip and tomorrow another tech come by to fix the leak
and recharge it. I am having them do it since they installed it, are a
quality company and warranty the repair. But its like anything else,
you charge what the market bears - what ever you can get.

Hot weather is a bear that trumps everything else.

TDD

On Jul 30, 6:09*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
House call. Three or four hours labor. They may want to recover all
the old freon and put in all new freon. I'm not sure what others
charge. But, I'd work it out as 60 trip charge (local to me). $50 an
hour labor, and $30 a pound for refrigerant. That could total out $400
without too much effort. Sounds like they aren't too far off. It's
still a pile of money.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"ransley" wrote in message

...

What should the job cost, I have a quote of 470 for the total job, the
initial service trip and tomorrow another tech come by to fix the leak
and recharge it. I am having them do it since they installed it, are a
quality company and warranty the repair. But its like anything else,
you charge what the market bears - what ever you can get.

When you are broke any repair is alot of money. When I think this
month I might get some back bills paid off I get new ones to keep me
broke.

On Jul 30, 5:19*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jul 30, 5:14*pm, ransley wrote:





On Jul 30, 1:59*pm, jamesgangnc wrote:

On Jul 30, 2:28*pm, "Pete C." wrote:

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Wow, you guys can't help it if I don't charge enough. 300 for a leak
check, and 500 to fix one braze joint, and refil the system? Eight
c'notes sounds like a lot of money, to me.

Considering that they legally have to drag a refrigerant recovery
machine out to recover the refrigerant from the system before they can
braze it, and the recovery process takes some time, then they have to
evacuate the system and recharge it, it's probably not a lot of money.

No, it is a bit high. *Doesn't take all that long to pump the
remaining down into the compressor. *Then recover what's left if any
in the lines. *Then braze, vacuum, and charge. *Unless there is some
other issues 2 or 3 hours max.

What should the job cost, I have a quote of 470 for the total job, the
initial service trip and tomorrow another tech come by to fix the leak
and recharge it. I am having them do it since they installed it, are a
quality company and warranty the repair. But its like anything else,
you charge what the market bears - what ever you can get.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's acceptable. *It might seem a little high but they're including
the initial trip. *If you don't go with them they are going to hand
you a bill for $100 to $150 for the first trip.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I paid the first trip, it was 150 but discounted to 75 since they are
comming back. They are a good company, and it could have been 10 x
worse so I shouldnt complain, im lucky yesterday was the coolest day
in a month, im lucky ive had central Ac at all.

The old cliche fits, too much month left over at the end of the money.
Walmart has window shakers from about a hundred bucks and up.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"ransley" wrote in message
...

When you are broke any repair is alot of money. When I think this
month I might get some back bills paid off I get new ones to keep me
broke.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I could do it for $190, but I'm in another state.

SORRY CHRIS!
ONLY IF YOU ARE SCREWING UNCLE SAM
I work for my self and I would not do it for less then $600.oo


--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"ransley" wrote in message
...

too much money, a rip off, a friend could do it for 200 he said but he
is in another state.





--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message
...
On 7/30/2010 9:17 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jul 30, 9:25 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 7/30/2010 7:00 AM, ransley wrote:

My central AC a 1996 Lennox 3 ton stopped blowing air yesterday, I
looked at the air handler coil and it was frozen, filter is new and a
4" so I let it thaw and ran it without the filter thinking added
airflow would help. In about 40 minutes it froze again. Airflow
unfrozen hasnt changed, its the same out the vents as always so I dont
think the blower is bad or any restrictions. When an old unit leaks
freon is that usualy the end of life of the compressor or air handler,
is it often possible or easy to find and fix a leak without spending
alot. I will call a tech today and I hope the leak is small enough
that it will last the year but a few days ago it was fine. Will I
damage anything running it low on freon for about 30 minute cycles
till it starts to freeze and let it thaw, a bit of cool air still
comes out.

It could be something as simple as leaking valve cores in the
Schrader service valves. I've seen leaks develop years later
because the valve cores were not tightened at the factory or
the installation tech didn't tighten the cores enough when
reinstalling them. Tiny leaks can be handled by a product I've
had good luck with manufactured by Cliplight called SUPER SEAL HVACR.
It's a stop leak for AC systems.

http://www.cliplight.com/hvacr/produ...27&upperCatID=

TDD

Professional opinions are mixed on "sealers". Many techs shy away
from them.

Many techs don't know how to properly use them and like most folks
are afraid of something different. I most definitely don't push
sealers as a cure all and prefer brazing up a hole in a system but
some tiny leaks respond very well to the sealer I've used. I'm also
fond of UV florescent dye for finding tiny leaks. I've used it to
find pinhole sized leaks in many refrigeration and AC systems.

TDD

Sorry TDD but the only reliable leak detector on market today is H-10G
presently manufacture by Bacharach they are not cheap but they are good.
You take good fart it will detected, UV florescent dye if I can use nothing
ales




--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---

In many cases, it's not necessary to use the recovery machine. If the
leak is on the low side, it's possible to pump the refrigerant into
the condensor, and keep it captive, there.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

Considering that they legally have to drag a refrigerant recovery
machine out to recover the refrigerant from the system before they can
braze it, and the recovery process takes some time, then they have to
evacuate the system and recharge it, it's probably not a lot of money.

State of confusion, I am!

Your prices sound reasonable. I was having a sale, but not having any
product in stock. No rain checks!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Grumpy" wrote in message
...

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
I could do it for $190, but I'm in another state.

SORRY CHRIS!
ONLY IF YOU ARE SCREWING UNCLE SAM
I work for my self and I would not do it for less then $600.oo

On 7/31/2010 1:19 PM, Grumpy wrote:
"The Daring wrote in message
...
On 7/30/2010 9:17 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jul 30, 9:25 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 7/30/2010 7:00 AM, ransley wrote:

My central AC a 1996 Lennox 3 ton stopped blowing air yesterday, I
looked at the air handler coil and it was frozen, filter is new and a
4" so I let it thaw and ran it without the filter thinking added
airflow would help. In about 40 minutes it froze again. Airflow
unfrozen hasnt changed, its the same out the vents as always so I dont
think the blower is bad or any restrictions. When an old unit leaks
freon is that usualy the end of life of the compressor or air handler,
is it often possible or easy to find and fix a leak without spending
alot. I will call a tech today and I hope the leak is small enough
that it will last the year but a few days ago it was fine. Will I
damage anything running it low on freon for about 30 minute cycles
till it starts to freeze and let it thaw, a bit of cool air still
comes out.

It could be something as simple as leaking valve cores in the
Schrader service valves. I've seen leaks develop years later
because the valve cores were not tightened at the factory or
the installation tech didn't tighten the cores enough when
reinstalling them. Tiny leaks can be handled by a product I've
had good luck with manufactured by Cliplight called SUPER SEAL HVACR.
It's a stop leak for AC systems.

http://www.cliplight.com/hvacr/produ...27&upperCatID=

TDD

Professional opinions are mixed on "sealers". Many techs shy away
from them.

Many techs don't know how to properly use them and like most folks
are afraid of something different. I most definitely don't push
sealers as a cure all and prefer brazing up a hole in a system but
some tiny leaks respond very well to the sealer I've used. I'm also
fond of UV florescent dye for finding tiny leaks. I've used it to
find pinhole sized leaks in many refrigeration and AC systems.

TDD

Sorry TDD but the only reliable leak detector on market today is H-10G
presently manufacture by Bacharach they are not cheap but they are good.
You take good fart it will detected, UV florescent dye if I can use nothing
ales


I can find most leaks with the Mark 1 Eyeball and E240/ns64 Ear. I
have not only the UV dye but ultrasonic leak detectors and sniffers.
Another item I use is dry nitrogen. I will break down an exasperating
system into zones, seal them off, pressurize them and look for a
pressure drop. When me and my buddy install an AC system in a house
that won't be occupied for a while, we don't install the condenser
but pressurize the line set connected to the evaporator with N2 and
leave it. If the pressure drops or vanishes a week later, we know a
carpenter put a nail through the line set.

TDD

In article , The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 7/30/2010 9:17 AM, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Jul 30, 9:25 am, The Daring
wrote:
On 7/30/2010 7:00 AM, ransley wrote:

My central AC a 1996 Lennox 3 ton stopped blowing air yesterday, I
looked at the air handler coil and it was frozen, filter is new and a
4" so I let it thaw and ran it without the filter thinking added
airflow would help. In about 40 minutes it froze again. Airflow
unfrozen hasnt changed, its the same out the vents as always so I dont
think the blower is bad or any restrictions. When an old unit leaks
freon is that usualy the end of life of the compressor or air handler,
is it often possible or easy to find and fix a leak without spending
alot. I will call a tech today and I hope the leak is small enough
that it will last the year but a few days ago it was fine. Will I
damage anything running it low on freon for about 30 minute cycles
till it starts to freeze and let it thaw, a bit of cool air still
comes out.

It could be something as simple as leaking valve cores in the
Schrader service valves. I've seen leaks develop years later
because the valve cores were not tightened at the factory or
the installation tech didn't tighten the cores enough when
reinstalling them. Tiny leaks can be handled by a product I've
had good luck with manufactured by Cliplight called SUPER SEAL HVACR.
It's a stop leak for AC systems.

http://www.cliplight.com/hvacr/produ...27&upperCatID=

Professional opinions are mixed on "sealers". Many techs shy away
from them.

Many techs don't know how to properly use them and like most folks
are afraid of something different. I most definitely don't push
sealers as a cure all and prefer brazing up a hole in a system but
some tiny leaks respond very well to the sealer I've used. I'm also
fond of UV florescent dye for finding tiny leaks. I've used it to
find pinhole sized leaks in many refrigeration and AC systems.

The way I hear it:

Leaks big enough to find with "sniffers" and fluorescent/"UV" leak
detection are worth fixing in ways that target them - brazing or whatever
along those lines.

Leaks smaller than that appear to me to deserve Cliplight's "Super
Seal".

Keep in mind that Cliplight sells not only "Super Seal", but also
dyes, dye injectors, lights, and kits for fluorescent/"UV" leak detection.

As a result, it appears to me that Cliplight has a reasonable rate of
marketing their "Super Seal" for usage when that is appropriate. That is
heavily-in-my-mind because they also sell means to find leaks worth fixing
more directly than with application of their "Super Seal".
And I have yet to hear of Cliplight selling braze, torches, torch
hoses, torch fuel or oxygen or tanks thereof, although they do sell the
most convenient and durable torch ignitor that I ever saw ("SparkKey" IIRC,
and I have one.) But as much as they sell leak detection dyes, lights,
and dye injectors as well as torch ignitors, I seem to think that they
want their customers to target leaks worth finding and brazing or otherwise
repairing without their "Super Seal" when such leaks are big enough to
be worth repairing more directly than with usage of their "Super Seal".
And that they promote usage of their "Super Seal" mainly to plug smaller
leaks that are too small to be worth individually both detecting and
repairing by leak-site-specific means.

--
- Don Klipstein )