On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. I couldn't fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

On 5/25/2010 3:13 PM, harry wrote:
On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. I couldn't fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

He's become a fat, rich capitalist himself making money off the simple
minded

On May 25, 2:25*pm, Frank wrote:
On 5/25/2010 3:13 PM, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. *I couldn't fault the man. *He was so exactly correct.

He's become a fat, rich capitalist himself making money off the simple
minded

That would be harry.

Frank wrote in
:

On 5/25/2010 3:13 PM, harry wrote:
On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. I couldn't fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

He's become a fat, rich capitalist himself making money off the simple
minded


Moore edits his films to say what he wants,not what has actually happened.
Not "documentaries",but agitprop.

He's also racist and stingy,very uncharitable.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Jeff The Drunk wrote in
news
On Tue, 25 May 2010 12:13:18 -0700, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before. Hah. I couldn't fault
the man. He was so exactly correct.

Remember he is a film maker hence has ulterior motivation to be
entertaining first and informative second.


he edits to say what HE wants,just like CBS 60 Minutes.
NOT "documentaries" by the regular definition of the word.

it's agitprop. socialist crap.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On May 25, 2:13*pm, harry wrote:
On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. *I couldn't fault the man. *He was so exactly correct.


I heard he makes films for money, selling tickets and DVD's to whoever
will buy them. What did you hear?

Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 12:13:18 -0700, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before. Hah. I couldn't
fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

Remember he is a film maker hence has ulterior motivation to be
entertaining first and informative second.

Second?

harry wrote:
On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. I couldn't fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

Michael Moore is a classic example of someone who bites the hand
that feeds him (no pun).

TDD

On Tue, 25 May 2010 17:30:00 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 12:13:18 -0700, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before. Hah. I couldn't
fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

Remember he is a film maker hence has ulterior motivation to be
entertaining first and informative second.

Second?


Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the USA.

Imagine that.

On May 26, 12:57�am, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 17:30:00 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 12:13:18 -0700, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before. Hah. �I couldn't
fault the man. �He was so exactly correct.

Remember he is a film maker hence has ulterior motivation to be
entertaining first and informative second.

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

On May 25, 10:29�pm, Jim Yanik wrote:
Jeff The Drunk wrote innews
On Tue, 25 May 2010 12:13:18 -0700, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before. Hah. �I couldn't fault
the man. �He was so exactly correct.

Remember he is a film maker hence has ulterior motivation to be
entertaining first and informative second.

he edits to say what HE wants,just like CBS 60 Minutes.
NOT "documentaries" by the regular definition of the word.

it's agitprop. socialist crap.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

So, which bits were inaccurate?

On May 25, 8:25�pm, Frank wrote:
On 5/25/2010 3:13 PM, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. �I couldn't fault the man. �He was so exactly correct.

He's become a fat, rich capitalist himself making money off the simple
minded

I thought that was normal in America

On May 25, 8:25�pm, Frank wrote:
On 5/25/2010 3:13 PM, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. �I couldn't fault the man. �He was so exactly correct.

He's become a fat, rich capitalist himself making money off the simple
minded

His film also reflects what happened/is happening over here in the UK
too.
Capitalism works but you need all the rules and to put capitalists in
jail now and then.

On May 25, 8:42�pm, keith wrote:
On May 25, 2:25�pm, Frank wrote:

On 5/25/2010 3:13 PM, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. �I couldn't fault the man. �He was so exactly correct.

He's become a fat, rich capitalist himself making money off the simple
minded

That would be harry.

I am not rich. True, a bit overweight but not fat.

"harry" wrote
How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

At any given time, there are hundreds of US citizens in Cuba. Have a good
reason t go, fill out the forms, and you get permission. There is a also a
difference between free and good.

On Tue, 25 May 2010 14:34:50 -0700 (PDT), RickH
wrote Re OT Michael Moore.:

On May 25, 2:13*pm, harry wrote:
On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. *I couldn't fault the man. *He was so exactly correct.


I heard he makes films for money, selling tickets and DVD's to whoever
will buy them. What did you hear?

I heard the same thing; and also that he exaggerates, misrepresents
and often sometimes fabricates the "facts" he presents. I heard he
does this to increase his sales/profits. Could that be true?
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

harry wrote:

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number of
Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

On May 26, 3:29*am, harry wrote:
On May 26, 12:57 am, Oren wrote:





On Tue, 25 May 2010 17:30:00 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 12:13:18 -0700, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before. Hah. I couldn't
fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

Remember he is a film maker hence has ulterior motivation to be
entertaining first and informative second.

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? *Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Heard a Cuban woman say that Cuba has medical facilities for visitors
and others for the general populace.
Guess who gets good treatment?

On May 26, 7:25*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? *Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number of
Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

When Castro had that mysterious surgery a few years ago, I believe
they imported a doctor from Spain.
Wonder as a Communist country, if this option is open to all the Cuban
people?

I also believe when Cuba sends doctors to help friends, like
Venezuala, they are accompanied by guards to make sure they do not
defect.

On May 26, 3:34*am, harry wrote:
On May 25, 8:25 pm, Frank wrote:

On 5/25/2010 3:13 PM, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. I couldn't fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

He's become a fat, rich capitalist himself making money off the simple
minded

His film also reflects what happened/is happening over here in the UK
too.
Capitalism works but you need all the rules and to put capitalists in
jail now and then.

Also have to tell you that I have a collegue in the UK that loves
Michael Moore.
A few years ago his boss was visiting me in the US and I took him to
my shooting range where we posted a target of Michael Moore. He shot
it up and took it back to the UK to give to the collegue to hang in
his office.

Years ago I was also a fan of Michael Moore who had a weekly TV show
about his trials against big business.
He could never get past the little people when he barged into a
business with his cameras to get at the boss, and, guess what: he
treated the little people, e.g. receptionists, like dirt. That's when
I realized he was nothing but a fat asshole.

On 5/25/2010 5:27 PM, Jim Yanik wrote:
wrote in
:

On 5/25/2010 3:13 PM, harry wrote:
On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. I couldn't fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

He's become a fat, rich capitalist himself making money off the simple
minded


Moore edits his films to say what he wants,not what has actually happened.
Not "documentaries",but agitprop.

He's also racist and stingy,very uncharitable.

Please name a director who does not edit his film to say what he wants. That's
the job of the director. Think twice, write once.

On May 26, 7:25*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? *Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number of
Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

Do yo have a cite for that?

On May 26, 6:29*am, Caesar Romano wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 14:34:50 -0700 (PDT), RickH
wrote Re OT Michael Moore.:

On May 25, 2:13*pm, harry wrote:
On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. *I couldn't fault the man. *He was so exactly correct.

I heard he makes films for money, selling tickets and DVD's to whoever
will buy them. *What did you hear?

I heard the same thing; and also that he exaggerates, misrepresents
and often sometimes fabricates the "facts" he presents. *I heard he
does this to increase his sales/profits. *Could that be true?
--


I bet you edited that to say what you want and have no documented
proof.

On May 26, 12:49�pm, Frank wrote:
On May 26, 7:25�am, "HeyBub" wrote:





harry wrote:

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? �Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number of
Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

When Castro had that mysterious surgery a few years ago, I believe
they imported a doctor from Spain.
Wonder as a Communist country, if this option is open to all the Cuban
people?

I also believe when Cuba sends doctors to help friends, like
Venezuala, they are accompanied by guards to make sure they do not
defect.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why do you believe that? Fox News I expect!

On May 26, 12:40�pm, Frank wrote:
On May 26, 3:29�am, harry wrote:





On May 26, 12:57 am, Oren wrote:

On Tue, 25 May 2010 17:30:00 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 12:13:18 -0700, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before. Hah. I couldn't
fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

Remember he is a film maker hence has ulterior motivation to be
entertaining first and informative second.

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the USA..

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? �Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Heard a Cuban woman say that Cuba has medical facilities for visitors
and others for the general populace.
Guess who gets good treatment?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I give up, tell me.

On May 26, 11:29�am, Caesar Romano wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 14:34:50 -0700 (PDT), RickH
wrote Re OT Michael Moore.:

On May 25, 2:13�pm, harry wrote:
On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. �I couldn't fault the man. �He was so exactly correct.

I heard he makes films for money, selling tickets and DVD's to whoever
will buy them. �What did you hear?

I heard the same thing; and also that he exaggerates, misrepresents
and often sometimes fabricates the "facts" he presents. �I heard he
does this to increase his sales/profits. �Could that be true?
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

I hear everyone who makes films & DVDs sells theem fo rmoney. So what?

Who told you these things? Why don't you check out any facts you
think are wrong? Give me one of these facts & we'll both check it
out.
You are full of BS. You feed on rumour.

On May 26, 12:25�pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? �Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number of
Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

Free is better than "it's there but only for the wealthy".

On May 26, 10:51�am, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"harry" wrote

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? �Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

At any given time, there are hundreds of US citizens in Cuba. �Have a good
reason t go, fill out the forms, and you get permission. �There is a also a
difference between free and good.

So, you need permission? On what grounds might that permission be
rejected? Why should you need permission anyway?

On May 26, 12:25�pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? �Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number of
Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

There's a significant number go to India as well for health care. So
what?

On 5/26/2010 12:10 PM, harry wrote:
On May 26, 10:51�am, "Ed wrote:
wrote

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? �Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

At any given time, there are hundreds of US citizens in Cuba. �Have a good
reason t go, fill out the forms, and you get permission. �There is a also a
difference between free and good.

So, you need permission? On what grounds might that permission be
rejected? Why should you need permission anyway?

It's true. It is illegal for the average U.S. private citizen to travel to Cuba
(e.g. for tourism) without explicit permission from the Department of State.
It's a legacy from the American foreign policy towards Cuba (part of the
blockade mentality) that was implemented in the early 1960s, after the failed
Bay of Pigs invasion. Isn't it great how often we in this country (U.S.A.)
complain officially (at the U.N. and Dept. of State) and unofficially about
other country's foreign policies being stuck in the past? Time for us to look
in the mirror and realize that we can be hypocritical too.

hibb wrote:

On May 26, 7:25*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
-snip-

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

Do yo have a cite for that?

That's one of those oft repeated lies that if they get told often
enough they become true.

But the lie aside- It isn't how many MRIs you have that make
healthcare for everyone work. It is how much access to good
healthcare everyone has.

MRIs & similar expensive machines are part of our problem with
out-of-control healthcare costs. A Dr. buys a machine and starts all
his diagnostics by using the damn thing so the patient's insurance
company can pay for it.

Jim
BTW- I've asked a half dozen Canadians that I've met if they'd prefer
our healthcare system to theirs & so far, no takers.

On May 26, 12:45*pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
hibb wrote:
On May 26, 7:25*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
-snip-

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

Do yo have a cite for that?

That's one of those oft repeated lies that if they get told often
enough they become true. * *

But the lie aside- * It isn't how many MRIs you have that make
healthcare for everyone work. * *It is how much access to good
healthcare everyone has.

MRIs & similar expensive machines are part of our problem with
out-of-control healthcare costs. *A Dr. buys a machine and starts all
his diagnostics by using the damn thing so the patient's insurance
company can pay for it.

Jim
BTW- I've asked a half dozen Canadians that I've met if they'd prefer
our healthcare system to theirs & so far, no takers.

Then consider the fact that Sarah Palin admitted that when they needed
health care when she was young they headed for the boarder for the
Canadian health care system.

hibb wrote:
On May 26, 12:45 pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
hibb wrote:
On May 26, 7:25 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
-snip-

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole
country of Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI
machines in my CITY than in the whole country of Canada.

Do yo have a cite for that?

That's one of those oft repeated lies that if they get told often
enough they become true.

But the lie aside- It isn't how many MRIs you have that make
healthcare for everyone work. It is how much access to good
healthcare everyone has.

MRIs & similar expensive machines are part of our problem with
out-of-control healthcare costs. A Dr. buys a machine and starts all
his diagnostics by using the damn thing so the patient's insurance
company can pay for it.

Jim
BTW- I've asked a half dozen Canadians that I've met if they'd prefer
our healthcare system to theirs & so far, no takers.

Then consider the fact that Sarah Palin admitted that when they needed
health care when she was young they headed for the boarder for the
Canadian health care system.

then consider that the prime minister of canada went to the us for medical
care.

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

That's one of those oft repeated lies that if they get told often
enough they become true.


Medical Imaging in Canada, 2007 reports that in 2007, there were 419 CT
scanners and 222 MRI machines installed and operational in Canada, up
from 325 and 149, respectively, in 2003. In the most recent year,
between 2006 and 2007, the number of CT scanners increased by 27 and the
number of MRI scanners increased by 21. The rate of MRI and CT exams
performed per 1,000 population in Canada rose by 43% and 28%,
respectively, in the four years between 2003 and 2007, and rose by 4%
and 5%, respectively, in the most recent year. (Last year I could find
information for. )

BTW: It was also shown that Canada performs about half the number of
MRIs per unit of population than the US.
But the lie aside- It isn't how many MRIs you have that make
healthcare for everyone work. It is how much access to good
healthcare everyone has.

But this does from the same study: Despite the increases, Canada, with
12 CT scanners and 6 MRI machines per million population, falls below
the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) median
of 15 CT scanners and 7 MRI machines per million population in 2005, the
latest year for which data are available.

That would tend to argue that MRI access is less than optimal.


MRIs & similar expensive machines are part of our problem with
out-of-control healthcare costs. A Dr. buys a machine and starts all
his diagnostics by using the damn thing so the patient's insurance
company can pay for it.
Yet ALL kinds of imaging (from X-rays for broken bones, to
mammography (which studies have shown is probably overdone and
expensive)mean just 5% or so of all US expenditures. We could rub out
all the doc-owned machines in the US tomorrow and make little difference.
BTW: The US Government is one of the larger reasons for the
proliferation of the these kinds of machines (and speciality hospitals
like Ortho and Heart). They don't pay for **** for actual doctoring, but
they do pay nicely for facility fees, etc. This has been shown to cause
many dislocations such as these. If you get the Government out it, you
might save even more.



Jim
BTW- I've asked a half dozen Canadians that I've met if they'd prefer
our healthcare system to theirs & so far, no takers.
Which is even less useful than the MRI comparison. Your poll probably
has an error range of +/- 100%

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

In article ,
Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:

That's one of those oft repeated lies that if they get told often
enough they become true.


Medical Imaging in Canada, 2007 reports that in 2007, there were 419 CT
scanners and 222 MRI machines installed and operational in Canada, up
from 325 and 149, respectively, in 2003. In the most recent year,
between 2006 and 2007, the number of CT scanners increased by 27 and the
number of MRI scanners increased by 21. The rate of MRI and CT exams
performed per 1,000 population in Canada rose by 43% and 28%,
respectively, in the four years between 2003 and 2007, and rose by 4%
and 5%, respectively, in the most recent year. (Last year I could find
information for. )

The citation is from Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI).
Medical Imaging in Canada, 2007



BTW: It was also shown that Canada performs about half the number of
MRIs per unit of population than the US.
But the lie aside- It isn't how many MRIs you have that make
healthcare for everyone work. It is how much access to good
healthcare everyone has.

But this does from the same study: Despite the increases, Canada, with
12 CT scanners and 6 MRI machines per million population, falls below
the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) median
of 15 CT scanners and 7 MRI machines per million population in 2005, the
latest year for which data are available.

That would tend to argue that MRI access is less than optimal.


MRIs & similar expensive machines are part of our problem with
out-of-control healthcare costs. A Dr. buys a machine and starts all
his diagnostics by using the damn thing so the patient's insurance
company can pay for it.
Yet ALL kinds of imaging (from X-rays for broken bones, to
mammography (which studies have shown is probably overdone and
expensive)mean just 5% or so of all US expenditures. We could rub out
all the doc-owned machines in the US tomorrow and make little difference.
BTW: The US Government is one of the larger reasons for the
proliferation of the these kinds of machines (and speciality hospitals
like Ortho and Heart). They don't pay for **** for actual doctoring, but
they do pay nicely for facility fees, etc. This has been shown to cause
many dislocations such as these. If you get the Government out it, you
might save even more.



Jim
BTW- I've asked a half dozen Canadians that I've met if they'd prefer
our healthcare system to theirs & so far, no takers.
Which is even less useful than the MRI comparison. Your poll probably
has an error range of +/- 100%

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

On May 26, 1:15*pm, "chaniarts"
wrote:
hibb wrote:
On May 26, 12:45 pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
hibb wrote:
On May 26, 7:25 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
-snip-

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole
country of Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI
machines in my CITY than in the whole country of Canada.

Do yo have a cite for that?

That's one of those oft repeated lies that if they get told often
enough they become true.

But the lie aside- It isn't how many MRIs you have that make
healthcare for everyone work. It is how much access to good
healthcare everyone has.

MRIs & similar expensive machines are part of our problem with
out-of-control healthcare costs. A Dr. buys a machine and starts all
his diagnostics by using the damn thing so the patient's insurance
company can pay for it.

Jim
BTW- I've asked a half dozen Canadians that I've met if they'd prefer
our healthcare system to theirs & so far, no takers.

Then consider the fact that Sarah Palin admitted that when they needed
health care when she was young they headed for the boarder for the
Canadian health care system.

then consider that the prime minister of canada went to the us for medical
care.

Then consider that Sarah Palin had a brain scan but they found
nothing.

On 5/26/2010 12:02 PM, harry wrote:
On May 26, 12:49�pm, wrote:
On May 26, 7:25�am, wrote:





harry wrote:

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? �Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number of
Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

When Castro had that mysterious surgery a few years ago, I believe
they imported a doctor from Spain.
Wonder as a Communist country, if this option is open to all the Cuban
people?

I also believe when Cuba sends doctors to help friends, like
Venezuala, they are accompanied by guards to make sure they do not
defect.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why do you believe that? Fox News I expect!

Feel free to research it yourself. Let us know, with references, if I'm
wrong.

On May 26, 1:20*pm, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
*Jim Elbrecht wrote:

That's one of those oft repeated lies that if they get told often
enough they become true. * *

Medical Imaging in Canada, 2007 reports that in 2007, there were 419 CT
scanners and 222 MRI machines installed and operational in Canada, up
from 325 and 149, respectively

Thanks, does sound like a lot for Canada, doesn't it.



in 2003. In the most recent year,
between 2006 and 2007, the number of CT scanners increased by 27 and the
number of MRI scanners increased by 21. The rate of MRI and CT exams
performed per 1,000 population in Canada rose by 43% and 28%,
respectively, in the four years between 2003 and 2007, and rose by 4%
and 5%, respectively, in the most recent year. (Last year I could find
information for. )

BTW: It was also shown that Canada performs about half the number of
MRIs per unit of population than the US.


Could be a lot of reasons for that other than fewer scanners. For
example, seems like every time I go to the Doctor around here they
want me back in three months even if I have nothing wrong. I wonder if
Canada's doctors order as many tests per patient as they do here.




But the lie aside- * It isn't how many MRIs you have that make
healthcare for everyone work. * *It is how much access to good
healthcare everyone has.

*But this does from the same study: Despite the increases, Canada, with
12 CT scanners and 6 MRI machines per million population, falls below
the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) median
of 15 CT scanners and 7 MRI machines per million population in 2005, the
latest year for which data are available.

* * * That would tend to argue that MRI access is less than optimal..



MRIs & similar expensive machines are part of our problem with
out-of-control healthcare costs. *A Dr. buys a machine and starts all
his diagnostics by using the damn thing so the patient's insurance
company can pay for it.

* *Yet ALL kinds of imaging (from X-rays for broken bones, to
mammography (which studies have shown is probably overdone and
expensive)mean just 5% or so of all US expenditures. We could rub out
all the doc-owned machines in the US tomorrow and make little difference.
* * * BTW: The US Government is one of the larger reasons for the
proliferation of the these kinds of machines (and speciality hospitals
like Ortho and Heart). They don't pay for **** for actual doctoring, but
they do pay nicely for facility fees, etc. This has been shown to cause
many dislocations such as these. If you get the Government out it, you
might save even more.



Jim
BTW- I've asked a half dozen Canadians that I've met if they'd prefer
our healthcare system to theirs & so far, no takers.

* *Which is even less useful than the MRI comparison. Your poll probably
has an error range of +/- 100%

--
* I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

On May 26, 9:42*am, Peter wrote:
On 5/26/2010 12:10 PM, harry wrote:

On May 26, 10:51 am, "Ed *wrote:
*wrote

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

At any given time, there are hundreds of US citizens in Cuba. Have a good
reason t go, fill out the forms, and you get permission. There is a also a
difference between free and good.

So, you need permission? *On what grounds might that permission be
rejected? *Why should you need permission anyway?

It's true. *It is illegal for the average U.S. private citizen to travel to Cuba
(e.g. for tourism) without explicit permission from the Department of State.
It's a legacy from the American foreign policy towards Cuba (part of the
blockade mentality) that was implemented in the early 1960s, after the failed
Bay of Pigs invasion. *Isn't it great how often we in this country (U.S..A.)
complain officially (at the U.N. and Dept. of State) and unofficially about
other country's foreign policies being stuck in the past? *Time for us to look
in the mirror and realize that we can be hypocritical too.

My understanding is that one can travel to Cuba but one cannot spend
money
there.

One travels via Toronto or a Mexican city. Buy one ticket to that
destination and
a new ticket to Cuba.

Had a wonderful trip, met the kindest, nicest people, everyone spoke
freely
(I speak passable Spanish), saw the austere standard of living; the
stores
where rations are distributed by coupons, the ancient autos, etc. But
such wonderful people!

You also have to respect Cuban medicine for taking care of ALL the
population, not just those who can afford insurance, despite the
strictures
places on doctors and supplies and technology by U.S. boycotts.

I read a LOT after returning, including the memoirs of Cuban resisters
who got out, and wrote understandably bitter accounts.

All these years of enforcing poverty on the Cuban PEOPLE as opposed to
the "Communist" government, would have been unnecessary had the
U.S. govt. not been so eager to kiss the *** of the Miami exiles who
never
got over having their property confiscated and their families
brutalized.

TRADE is always the best medicine! However, the Republican mad-dogs
who have taken over the Republican party were intent on keeping their
Congressional majority, and for that they needed the disaffected Cuban
exiles, and so the circle went round & round.

If the U.S. instead had allowed investment and travel in Cuba, trust
me,
the whole structure would have collapsed long ago. One would like
to think it wouldn't have reverted to Batista-style sexual and
politial
corruption, but rather a happy blend of capitalism and socialism.

Now we'll never know. But it's not too late to get realistic!

BTW: For movie fans, I highly recommend "Antes que anochezca"
(I hope the spelling is right) in English "Before Night Falls",
a wonderful dramatization of the life of a real Cuban poet who
was persecuted for being homosexual (one of Fidel's pet hates),
Fidel studied the Chinese method, which involved inviting gays to
a park meeting and drowning them.

It stars Javier Bardem, one of THE most fantastic actors on
the screen today.

Ho, hum - was there ever a dictator who didn't overstay his
welcome... Fidel, Stalin, Mao, on and on.

Lord Acton: Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts
absolutely.

chaniarts wrote:
hibb wrote:
On May 26, 12:45 pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
hibb wrote:
On May 26, 7:25 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
-snip-

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole
country of Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI
machines in my CITY than in the whole country of Canada.

Do yo have a cite for that?

That's one of those oft repeated lies that if they get told often
enough they become true.

But the lie aside- It isn't how many MRIs you have that make
healthcare for everyone work. It is how much access to good
healthcare everyone has.

MRIs & similar expensive machines are part of our problem with
out-of-control healthcare costs. A Dr. buys a machine and starts all
his diagnostics by using the damn thing so the patient's insurance
company can pay for it.

Jim
BTW- I've asked a half dozen Canadians that I've met if they'd
prefer our healthcare system to theirs & so far, no takers.

Then consider the fact that Sarah Palin admitted that when they
needed health care when she was young they headed for the boarder
for the Canadian health care system.

then consider that the prime minister of canada went to the us for
medical care.

Then consider that more US people go to other countries for health care than
foreigners come here.