On May 27, 2:59*am, harry wrote:
On May 26, 9:02 pm, Higgs Boson wrote:





On May 26, 9:42 am, Peter wrote:

On 5/26/2010 12:10 PM, harry wrote:

On May 26, 10:51 am, "Ed wrote:
wrote

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

At any given time, there are hundreds of US citizens in Cuba. Have a good
reason t go, fill out the forms, and you get permission. There is a also a
difference between free and good.

So, you need permission? On what grounds might that permission be
rejected? Why should you need permission anyway?

It's true. It is illegal for the average U.S. private citizen to travel to Cuba
(e.g. for tourism) without explicit permission from the Department of State.
It's a legacy from the American foreign policy towards Cuba (part of the
blockade mentality) that was implemented in the early 1960s, after the failed
Bay of Pigs invasion. Isn't it great how often we in this country (U.S.A.)
complain officially (at the U.N. and Dept. of State) and unofficially about
other country's foreign policies being stuck in the past? Time for us to look
in the mirror and realize that we can be hypocritical too.

My understanding is that one can travel to Cuba but one cannot spend
money
there.

One travels via Toronto or a Mexican city. Buy one ticket to that
destination and
a new ticket to Cuba.

Had a wonderful trip, met the kindest, nicest people, everyone spoke
freely
(I speak passable Spanish), saw the austere standard of living; the
stores
where rations are distributed by coupons, the ancient autos, etc. But
such wonderful people!

You also have to respect Cuban medicine for taking care of ALL the
population, not just those who can afford insurance, despite the
strictures
places on doctors and supplies and technology by U.S. boycotts.

I read a LOT after returning, including the memoirs of Cuban resisters
who got out, and wrote understandably bitter accounts.

All these years of enforcing poverty on the Cuban PEOPLE as opposed to
the "Communist" government, would have been unnecessary had the
U.S. govt. not been so eager to kiss the *** of the Miami exiles who
never
got over having their property confiscated and their families
brutalized.

TRADE is always the best medicine! However, the Republican mad-dogs
who have taken over the Republican party were intent on keeping their
Congressional majority, and for that they needed the disaffected Cuban
exiles, and so the circle went round & round.

If the U.S. instead had allowed investment and travel in Cuba, trust
me,
the whole structure would have collapsed long ago. One would like
to think it wouldn't have reverted to Batista-style sexual and
politial
corruption, but rather a happy blend of capitalism and socialism.

Now we'll never know. But it's not too late to get realistic!

BTW: For movie fans, I highly recommend "Antes que anochezca"
(I hope the spelling is right) in English "Before Night Falls",
a wonderful dramatization of the life of a real Cuban poet who
was persecuted for being homosexual (one of Fidel's pet hates),
Fidel studied the Chinese method, which involved inviting gays to
a park meeting and drowning them.

It stars Javier Bardem, one of THE most fantastic actors on
the screen today.

Ho, hum - was there ever a dictator who didn't overstay his
welcome... Fidel, Stalin, Mao, on and on.

Lord Acton: Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts
absolutely.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes exactly right. The reason tfor poverty in Cuba is the economic war
waged against it by the USA. *

LOL. Like trade with the USA is absolutely necessary. Are there no
other countries to trade with? The simple fact is Cuba is where it
is today because of the simple fact that as an economic system it's
been an abysmal failure in every single case.




And Castro would be long gone. His
regime has made the US a reason for staying.

Seems most of the other communist countries didn't disappear all that
quickly either now did they? They persisted for as long or longer
than Cuba. Some, ie China, North Korea and Vietnam still
endure.




A better rendition of your power thing is:-
"Power attracts the corruptable."
I think that's a truer statement. *I could run out a string of UK
politicians this applies to. *Scum they are.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On May 27, 11:06*am, Mac Cool wrote:
HeyBub:

Ah, but here's where your logic fails: There is no enterprise, health
care, education, etc., that cannot be done cheaper and better by
private industry.

Give me some examples, education and health care for starters.

In the case of education, you only need to look at private schools
versus public schools. Which is producing a better product in terms
of educated students. In areas where vouchers have been implemented
so that parents can decide whether to send their children to public
schools or use the voucher for private schools, the results have been
the private schools are doing a far better job. Such a good job that
the NEA does everything it can to block any use of school vouchers.
Now, if they are doing as good a job as the private schools, why are
they in favor of school vouchers?

In the case of public healthcare, take a look at the fraud going on in
Medicare/Medicaid. It's been widely reported that about 1/3 of all
claims in Florida are bogus. There are clinics all over the place
that are listed in the phone book, turning in hundreds of thousands in
bogus claims a month. And the place actually consists of an empty
building, with maybe one desk and a phone. 60 minutes went with
investigators to several of them in a story they did about it. They
showed an old lady who for the past 6 years has been calling Medicare
to report bogus items showing up on her account: wheelchairs, beds,
walkers. They interviewed another man who was billed through
Medicare for two prosthetic arms for tens of thousands of dollars, yet
his arms are intact.

Don;t believe me? Ask Obama. One of his most remarkable claims for
funding his new healthcare was that he was gonna recover billions in
waste and fraud from Medicare/Medicaid. Only in America. Anywhere
else, the logical response would be, "you idiot, if the govt can't run
those, how are you gonna run an even bigger boondoggle?

On May 26, 7:16*pm, "Bob F" wrote:
wrote:
On May 26, 12:08 pm, harry wrote:
On May 26, 12:25 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

harry wrote:

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if
you could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number
of Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole
country of Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI
machines in my CITY than in the whole country of Canada.

Free is better than "it's there but only for the wealthy".- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That;s another lie, often repeated. * Any indigent person in the USA
can walk in to an emergency room and the hospital must treat them.

But that treatment is only to get them out the door. It hardly matches the
medical care they need in the long term.

How many stories have we seen of patients dumped off outside homeless shelters
by hospitals?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

ACtually, I haven't seen any such stories. And if even is it's true
and the patient is still ill, it's only another ambulance call to 911
and they are back at that hospital or another. I'm not saying that's
a good system or produces the best result.

On 05/27/10 10:48 am, HeyBub wrote:

,,, There is no enterprise, health care,
education, etc., that cannot be done cheaper and better by private industry.
Take education, for example. No amount of money can improve it as long as it
remains primarily a government purview.

And in many European countries with universal heath care insurance
coverage is provided by private companies, but costs are controlled --
typically by capping the profits that can be made on basic coverage. In
some cases the premiums are subsidized for those with low incomes.

The US system and the Canadian system are NOT the only two options.

Perce

Mac Cool wrote in
:

HeyBub:

Ah, but here's where your logic fails: There is no enterprise, health
care, education, etc., that cannot be done cheaper and better by
private industry.


Give me some examples, education and health care for starters.


Comrade Obama sends HIS kids to private schools.
ISTR that Comrade Obama attended private schools himself.
I suspect most of the DemocRAT Congresscritters do the same.

Isn't Harvard a private school?

and US healthcare is where the foreigners all come when they need medical
trteatments. I note the mayor of Newfoundland,Canada came to the US to get
his medical care,instead of submitting to the much-vaunted Canadian system.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Mac Cool wrote in
:

Jay Hanig:

I asked him if he seriously thought that another CT scan would show
what so many others hadn't and he said: "Of course not... but if I
*don't* order one and something happens, a lawyer will have my guts
for garters because I didn't order one."

So an expensive test is ordered essentially to head off an attorney
and for no other reason. Your health dollars at work.

And you believed that?


It's far more believeable than anything you've said so far.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On May 27, 2:20�pm, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
�Jay Hanig wrote:

So an expensive test is ordered essentially to head off an attorney and
for no other reason. �Your health dollars at work.

� � �Wait abotu 10 years or so for the effects of all that radiation to
show up.

--
� I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

I wouldn't worry about radiation effects from modern Xray machines.
You get more one a trans-Atlantic flight.

On May 27, 3:25�pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:

Uh huh, it's all the Republicans again. ? The Democrats have been in
control of the White House, the Congress, and in fact both for a good
portion of the 45 years since the trade embargo went into effect.
Last time I checked, they've had solid control of both for the last
16 months, so why is this a Republican issue?

They never owned it to start with. � Just as you stole the indian
lands.

We DID own it - Cuba, that is. We won it fair and square through trial by
combat with Spain (think "Rough Riders" "San Juan Hill," "Battleship Maine,"
etc.).

Our mistake was not annexing the island - as we did Puerto Rico and Guam,
after 1898. We just "administered" the island until about 1902 when we
granted Cubans their independence.

When will you grant the Hawaiians their independence?

On May 27, 4:31�pm, wrote:
On May 27, 11:06�am, Mac Cool wrote:

HeyBub:

Ah, but here's where your logic fails: There is no enterprise, health
care, education, etc., that cannot be done cheaper and better by
private industry.

Give me some examples, education and health care for starters.

In the case of education, you only need to look at private schools
versus public schools. � Which is producing a better product in terms
of educated students. � In areas where vouchers have been implemented
so that parents can decide whether to send their children to public
schools or use the voucher for private schools, the results have been
the private schools are doing a far better job. � Such a good job that
the NEA does everything it can to block any use of school vouchers.
Now, if they are doing as good a job as the private schools, why are
they in favor of school vouchers?

In the case of public healthcare, take a look at the fraud going on in
Medicare/Medicaid. � It's been widely reported that about 1/3 of all
claims in Florida are bogus. � There are clinics all over the place
that are listed in the phone book, turning in hundreds of thousands in
bogus claims a month. � And the place actually consists of an empty
building, with maybe one desk and a phone. � 60 minutes went with
investigators to several of them in a story they did about it. � They
showed an old lady who for the past 6 years has been calling Medicare
to report bogus items showing up on her account: �wheelchairs, beds,
walkers. � �They interviewed another man who was billed through
Medicare for two prosthetic arms for tens of thousands of dollars, yet
his arms are intact.

Don;t believe me? � Ask Obama. �One of his most remarkable claims for
funding his new healthcare was that he was gonna recover billions in
waste and fraud from Medicare/Medicaid. � Only in America. �Anywhere
else, the logical response would be, "you idiot, if the govt can't run
those, how are you gonna run an even bigger boondoggle?

The reason some schools appear better than others is to do with the
pupils, or rather their parents. If the pupil comes from a good home
and has been disciplined and socialised then success is more likely.
If the parents make sure homework is done and school is attended
regularly then success is more or less assured.

On 5/27/2010 10:25 AM, HeyBub wrote:
harry wrote:

Uh huh, it's all the Republicans again. ? The Democrats have been in
control of the White House, the Congress, and in fact both for a good
portion of the 45 years since the trade embargo went into effect.
Last time I checked, they've had solid control of both for the last
16 months, so why is this a Republican issue?


They never owned it to start with. Just as you stole the indian
lands.

We DID own it - Cuba, that is. We won it fair and square through trial by
combat with Spain (think "Rough Riders" "San Juan Hill," "Battleship Maine,"
etc.).

Our mistake was not annexing the island - as we did Puerto Rico and Guam,
after 1898. We just "administered" the island until about 1902 when we
granted Cubans their independence.


It was a case of pure imperialism on our part. The Maine explosion almost
certainly was an accident, not an act of Cuban or Spanish aggression. It was as
false a pretext for war as was the Gulf of Tonkin episode a pretext for our
lovely little exploit in Viet Nam. We stole Cuba but for whatever reasons,
expediency, politics, economics - I don't know, I'm not a historian - we decided
to voluntarily cede control.

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Our mistake was not annexing the island - as we did Puerto Rico and Guam,
after 1898. We just "administered" the island until about 1902 when we
granted Cubans their independence.

Or as Sen SI Hyakawa stated so succinctly during the Panama Canal
Debate: "Of course its ours, we stole it fair and square."

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Peter wrote:

Exactly! All this machine counting nonsense. The bottom line is
that the average lifespan in the U.S. is well below that of countries
that may have far fewer state of the art diagnostic machines. What's
important is if there are enough machines available to perform the
medically indicated tests, not how many machines are available to
order tests that are not medically indicated.

"Lifespan" is a poor metric for measuring health care.

* A life can be ended before the medical profession has an opportunity to
intervene. Automobile accidents, gang warfare, executions under a lawful
warrant, wars, suicides, and so on.
* The "lifespan" measurement can be jiggled somewhat. In the U.S., a
severely premature infant is assaulted by a massive medical response.
Regrettably, these heroic techniques often fail. In France, the infant is
allowed to expire and is counted as "stillborn."

And the impact on lifespan is considerably greater when a 16 y/o is
killed in a driveby than when a 70 y.o lives to 75. Society implications
outside the control of docs contribute a lot to this. Same with infant
mortality since the US leads the leagues in teen births and the number
of very low birthweight babies among this group is higher. While medical
care can (and does) nibble a little around the edges through things like
trauma units and outreach programs to young mothers, much of this won't
go away until society changes.
Haven't done any of the math, but eyeballing the First World nations
who have the highest levels of teen pregnancy are largely those with the
worst infant mortality.

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

On 5/27/2010 9:53 AM, Peter wrote:
On 5/26/2010 9:41 PM, h wrote:


So, you think that your genes are so superior that you will never
develop a non-injury illness? You need to examine the actuarial data
that medical insurance companies use and learn that most people are
healthy until the day that they become sick. And most people who become
sick have not had an injury. I would bet my retirement fund that the day
you develop an illness that warrants medical attention, you'll get to
the doctor for care and not "lie down and die". Why are you blabbering
on alt.home.repair you should take this to home.brain.repair




Consider it natural selection.





Jay

On 5/27/2010 11:17 AM, Mac Cool wrote:
Jay Hanig:

I asked him if he seriously thought that another CT scan would show
what so many others hadn't and he said: "Of course not... but if I
*don't* order one and something happens, a lawyer will have my guts
for garters because I didn't order one."

So an expensive test is ordered essentially to head off an attorney
and for no other reason. Your health dollars at work.

And you believed that?



Yes. I'm a RN and I was working in a hospital when I had this
conversation with a friend. He had no reason to lie to me.



Jay

On 5/27/2010 12:08 PM, harry wrote:
Well ours is called Pinewood Studios. Turns out material just as
claptrapish as Hollywood. I didn't mention it because I don't suppose
many people in America have heard of it.



You think we've never seen an English film? I admit when I think of
Pinewood, I think of old war movies.



Jay

On 5/27/2010 11:31 AM, wrote:
On May 27, 11:06 am, Mac wrote:
HeyBub:

Ah, but here's where your logic fails: There is no enterprise, health
care, education, etc., that cannot be done cheaper and better by
private industry.

Give me some examples, education and health care for starters.

In the case of education, you only need to look at private schools
versus public schools. Which is producing a better product in terms
of educated students. In areas where vouchers have been implemented
so that parents can decide whether to send their children to public
schools or use the voucher for private schools, the results have been
the private schools are doing a far better job. Such a good job that
the NEA does everything it can to block any use of school vouchers.
Now, if they are doing as good a job as the private schools, why are
they in favor of school vouchers?

You are cherry picking the data that support your case and ignoring the data
that doesn't. Not all private schools that accept students subsidized by public
vouchers produce a better product. The NEA is blocking vouchers because they
know that public school budgets are calculated on the basis of student
enrollment. Vouchers siphon enrollment, reducing the municipality's pubic
education budget, which translates into less money to pay teacher salaries.

In the case of public healthcare, take a look at the fraud going on in
Medicare/Medicaid. It's been widely reported that about 1/3 of all
claims in Florida are bogus. There are clinics all over the place
that are listed in the phone book, turning in hundreds of thousands in
bogus claims a month. And the place actually consists of an empty
building, with maybe one desk and a phone. 60 minutes went with
investigators to several of them in a story they did about it. They
showed an old lady who for the past 6 years has been calling Medicare
to report bogus items showing up on her account: wheelchairs, beds,
walkers. They interviewed another man who was billed through
Medicare for two prosthetic arms for tens of thousands of dollars, yet
his arms are intact.

True, but incomplete information. There's probably an equal amount of
fraudulent claims being filed with private insurers. When doctors are
unscrupulous, they don't care who they are bilking. When I was in private
practice, I quickly got disgusted watching my greedy colleagues intentionally
use diagnostic and therapeutic billing codes that paid more, even if those codes
did not accurately represent what was wrong with the patient and what was done
to or for them.

Don;t believe me? Ask Obama. One of his most remarkable claims for
funding his new healthcare was that he was gonna recover billions in
waste and fraud from Medicare/Medicaid. Only in America. Anywhere
else, the logical response would be, "you idiot, if the govt can't run
those, how are you gonna run an even bigger boondoggle?

You don't like Medicare? Please, when you turn 65, don't sign up.

In article , Peter
wrote:

You are cherry picking the data that support your case and ignoring the data
that doesn't. Not all private schools that accept students subsidized by
public
vouchers produce a better product. The NEA is blocking vouchers because they
know that public school budgets are calculated on the basis of student
enrollment. Vouchers siphon enrollment, reducing the municipality's pubic
education budget, which translates into less money to pay teacher salaries.

Actually they are protesting less money to pay UNION teacher salaries.
If you look at most of the state constitutions where there is a
requirement for public schools, it requires public FUNDING but not
necessarily public delivery of the product.


In the case of public healthcare, take a look at the fraud going on in


True, but incomplete information. There's probably an equal amount of
fraudulent claims being filed with private insurers. When doctors are
unscrupulous, they don't care who they are bilking. When I was in private
practice, I quickly got disgusted watching my greedy colleagues intentionally
use diagnostic and therapeutic billing codes that paid more, even if those
codes
did not accurately represent what was wrong with the patient and what was
done
to or for them.
None of the studies I have seen indicate that, although reading
through them I think the Mcare data was better because it was less
filtered. Having written about coding for a few years, there is a
certain amount of subjectivity unless they are trying to bill a toe nail
removal as a transplant. I think there is also a little bit of
maximizing codes since MCare pays so little compared to private
insurance (studies show MCare pays 12 to 20% less than privates for
similar diagnosis and case mix than the Evil Insurance Companies).

Don;t believe me? Ask Obama. One of his most remarkable claims for
funding his new healthcare was that he was gonna recover billions in
waste and fraud from Medicare/Medicaid. Only in America. Anywhere
else, the logical response would be, "you idiot, if the govt can't run
those, how are you gonna run an even bigger boondoggle?

You don't like Medicare? Please, when you turn 65, don't sign up.
Yep. We have so many alternative choices as in none.

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

On May 27, 1:17*pm, Mac Cool wrote:
Jay Hanig:

I asked him if he seriously thought that another CT scan would show
what so many others hadn't and he said: *"Of course not... but if I
*don't* order one and something happens, a lawyer will have my guts
for garters because I didn't order one."

So an expensive test is ordered essentially to head off an attorney
and for no other reason. *Your health dollars at work.

And you believed that?

Well it's more likely to be true in an adversarial and litigious
system like that in the USA.
If a doctor does NOT order a perhaps unnecessary test at some-body's
cost then maybe later it will be ruled negligent or a by an insurance
company as not taking due care! If the doctor DOES order the test an
insurance company could rule that it was an unnecessary expense and
refuse to pay for it!
Health care should be the purview of the medical profession alone; not
subject to insurance company oversight and or (perhaps ambulance
chasing) lawyers!

On Wed, 26 May 2010 00:29:10 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On May 26, 12:57?am, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 17:30:00 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 12:13:18 -0700, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before. Hah. ?I couldn't
fault the man. ?He was so exactly correct.

Remember he is a film maker hence has ulterior motivation to be
entertaining first and informative second.

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.

It's not true because your friend, Michael Moore said it! I have a
choice not to go too Cuba, but I can get there from other places.
Except I let my passport expire -- on purpose.

HC care is also free in the UK. (by use of taxes)

Example of UK HC:

Organs removed in donor mix-up

"Forty-five people whose wishes were wrongly recorded have since died
and health officials will contact some 20 families whose relatives had
organs taken against their recorded wishes"

"Bereaved families will be told that the organ donor records of
800,000 people were wrongly recorded, leading to organs being removed
from some loved ones without consent.

Forty-five people whose wishes were wrongly recorded have since died
and health officials will contact some 20 families whose relatives had
organs taken against their recorded wishes. "

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle7094454.ece

You are another of the brainwashed.

Call it as you wish. I'm not a Socialist, Marxists. Pink-O Communist.

Next you will say the Nazi invented propaganda.

On Wed, 26 May 2010 00:35:26 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On May 25, 8:42?pm, keith wrote:
On May 25, 2:25?pm, Frank wrote:

On 5/25/2010 3:13 PM, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. ?I couldn't fault the man. ?He was so exactly correct.

He's become a fat, rich capitalist himself making money off the simple
minded

That would be harry.

I am not rich. True, a bit overweight but not fat.

The poster also mentioned "the simple minded". Please keep up Harry.
He was correct about, "That would be Harry".

On May 27, 4:11*pm, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2010 00:29:10 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:



On May 26, 12:57?am, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 17:30:00 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 12:13:18 -0700, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before. Hah. ?I couldn't
fault the man. ?He was so exactly correct.

Remember he is a film maker hence has ulterior motivation to be
entertaining first and informative second.

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? *Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.

It's not true because your friend, Michael Moore said it! I have a
choice not to go too Cuba, but I can get there from other places.
Except I let my passport expire -- on purpose.

HC care is also free in the UK. (by use of taxes)

Example of UK HC:

Organs removed in donor mix-up

"Forty-five people whose wishes were wrongly recorded have since died
and health officials will contact some 20 families whose relatives had
organs taken against their recorded wishes"

"Bereaved families will be told that the organ donor records of
800,000 people were wrongly recorded, leading to organs being removed
from some loved ones without consent.

Forty-five people whose wishes were wrongly recorded have since died
and health officials will contact some 20 families whose relatives had
organs taken against their recorded wishes. "

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...article7094454...

You are another of the brainwashed.

Call it as you wish. I'm not a Socialist, Marxists. Pink-O Communist.

Next you will say the Nazi invented propaganda.

Are you saying that horrible things that are a hell of a lot worse
than wrongly taking organs from dead people don't happen in the good
ole USA? Looks like you have that propaganda thing down pat.

On Wed, 26 May 2010 14:53:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

You act as if that is an easy thing that one should just "get over".
The fact is, besides brutalizing the Cuban people and seizing their
private property, Castro seized and nationalized billions worth of
property owned by US interests. And he hasn't been exactly bending
over backwards to either right that wrong or seek a more favorable
relationship with the US.

If you ever visit San Juan, Puerto Rico be sure and visit the _Bacardi
Rum Factory – A Tour & Free Drinks_

You learn what Castro did to this family.

Castro is ****ed, because we have a 99 year (?) lease on Guantanamo.

I'm familiar with Cuban refuges from the 1960s into S Florida. They
came here, bought "slums" and built the dream. Grateful people,
culture and delicious foods.

Circa 1980. The Cuban Flotilla to our shores. Castro troops, held at
gun point -- those from his prisons, insane asylums and trash he
deemed necessary.

Many Cubans were released to family sponsers, while others have sat in
prisons rubbing fecal matter on themselves.

In article ,
Oren wrote:


Castro is ****ed, because we have a 99 year (?) lease on Guantanamo.
The lease is open ended until BOTH Cuba and the US agree or the US
abandons the base.

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

On Thu, 27 May 2010 04:36:20 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Robin Hood definitely never existed. He is part of our Hollywood, now
stolen by yours. He is a composite of many historical figures,
legends, and lately Hollywood guff.

The next thing you will tell us doesn't exist is Santa Claus. How
dare you crush people's dreams like that! It's almost as bad as
finding out that Rock Hudson was a homosexual.

TDD

Brit's don't have Santa Claus.

Rock Hudson died from AIDS cooties.

On 27 May 2010 15:06:07 GMT, Mac Cool wrote:

HeyBub:

Ah, but here's where your logic fails: There is no enterprise, health
care, education, etc., that cannot be done cheaper and better by
private industry.


Give me some examples, education and health care for starters.

1. Abolish the Department of Education.

We can run "cheaper" prisons in the U.S., with "private industry", BUT
THAT has a whole separate set of issues. Like privacy and medical
records. Those items cannot be given out nilly-willy.

On Thu, 27 May 2010 13:43:08 -0700 (PDT), hibb
wrote:

On May 27, 4:11*pm, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2010 00:29:10 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:



On May 26, 12:57?am, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 17:30:00 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 12:13:18 -0700, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before. Hah. ?I couldn't
fault the man. ?He was so exactly correct.

Remember he is a film maker hence has ulterior motivation to be
entertaining first and informative second.

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? *Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.

It's not true because your friend, Michael Moore said it! I have a
choice not to go too Cuba, but I can get there from other places.
Except I let my passport expire -- on purpose.

HC care is also free in the UK. (by use of taxes)

Example of UK HC:

Organs removed in donor mix-up

"Forty-five people whose wishes were wrongly recorded have since died
and health officials will contact some 20 families whose relatives had
organs taken against their recorded wishes"

"Bereaved families will be told that the organ donor records of
800,000 people were wrongly recorded, leading to organs being removed
from some loved ones without consent.

Forty-five people whose wishes were wrongly recorded have since died
and health officials will contact some 20 families whose relatives had
organs taken against their recorded wishes. "

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...article7094454...

You are another of the brainwashed.

Call it as you wish. I'm not a Socialist, Marxists. Pink-O Communist.

Next you will say the Nazi invented propaganda.

Are you saying that horrible things that are a hell of a lot worse
than wrongly taking organs from dead people don't happen in the good
ole USA? Looks like you have that propaganda thing down pat.

Now, what did I say!?!

I use the TWO COW EXPLANATION.

Quoted, henceforth --

THE "TWO-COW EXPLANATION" OF WHAT MAKES...

A CHRISTIAN:
You have two cows. You keep one and give one to your neighbor.

A SOCIALIST:
You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to your
neighbor.

A REPUBLICAN:
You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. So what?

A DEMOCRAT:
You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You feel guilty for being
successful. You vote people into office who tax your cows, forcing you
to sell one to raise money to pay the tax. The people you voted for
then take the tax money and buy a cow and give it to your neighbor.
You feel righteous.

A COMMUNIST:
You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides you with
milk.

A FASCIST:
You have two cows. The government seizes both and sells you the milk.
You join the underground and start a campaign of sabotage.

DEMOCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE:
You have two cows. The government taxes you to the point you have to
sell both to support a man in a foreign country who has only one cow,
which was a gift from your government.

CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE:
You have two cows. You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows.

BUREAUCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE:
You have two cows. The government takes them both, shoots one, milks
the other, pays you for the milk, then pours the milk down the drain.

AN AMERICAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You sell one, and force the other to produce the
milk of four cows. You are surprised when the cow drops dead.

A FRENCH CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You go on strike because you want three cows.

A JAPANESE CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of
an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk.

A GERMAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You reengineer them so they live for 100 years, eat
once a month, and milk themselves.

AN ITALIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows but you don't know where they are. You break for
lunch.

A RUSSIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You count them and learn you have five cows. You
count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You count them again and
learn you have 12 cows. You stop counting cows and open another bottle
of vodka.

A MEXICAN CORPORATION:
You think you have two cows, but you don't know what a cow looks like.
You take a nap.

A SWISS CORPORATION:
You have 5000 cows, none of which belongs to you. You charge for
storing them for others.

A BRAZILIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You enter into a partnership with an American
corporation. Soon you have 1000 cows and the American corporation
declares bankruptcy.

AN INDIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You worship them.

On 05/27/10 04:11 pm, Oren wrote:

Example of UK HC:

Organs removed in donor mix-up

"Forty-five people whose wishes were wrongly recorded have since died
and health officials will contact some 20 families whose relatives had
organs taken against their recorded wishes"

"Bereaved families will be told that the organ donor records of
800,000 people were wrongly recorded, leading to organs being removed
from some loved ones without consent.

Forty-five people whose wishes were wrongly recorded have since died
and health officials will contact some 20 families whose relatives had
organs taken against their recorded wishes. "

Example of US HC:

Brother of a woman I know well had to have both legs amputated because
of gangrene resulting from hospital leaving him unattended for too long.

Perce

Peter wrote:
On 5/26/2010 7:13 PM, Bob F wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
hibb wrote:

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole
country of Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI
machines in my CITY than in the whole country of Canada.

Do yo have a cite for that?

"Pittsburgh has more MRI machines than Canada"
http://healthcare-economist.com/2008...s-than-canada/


"... the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI). Medical
Imaging in Canada, 2007 reports that in 2007, there were ... 222 MRI
machines installed and operational in Canada..."
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/119356.php

"At the beginning of 2005, Canada had 176 MRI scanners..."

"Canada ranked 12th, reporting 5.5 MRI scanners per million people.
Japan and the U.S. had the highest number, with 35.3 and 27.0 per
million, respectively..."

http://www.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage....ia_08feb2006_e

And others.

In my city, there are 82 radiographic and imaging centers, each with
presumably at least one MRI. We have more than 100 hospitals, the
largest having 1,500 beds. At least half of these hospitals have MRI
machines. The city also has several hundred radiologists,
orthopedists, and other specialists with an MRI machine in the office.

Sounds like proof of our wasteful system.


Exactly! All this machine counting nonsense. The bottom line is that
the average lifespan in the U.S. is well below that of countries that
may have far fewer state of the art diagnostic machines. What's
important is if there are enough machines available to perform the
medically indicated tests, not how many machines are available to order
tests that are not medically indicated.

To belabor your point- most of the short lifespan figures in US are due
to bad habits, not bad medical care. Obesity, tobacco, and booze are the
usual suspects, aided by sloth. Eat a decent diet and get 2 or 3 x the
current average amount of exercise, lay off the booze and smokes, and
the health-care 'crisis' would mostly go away. Yeah, some people will
have accidents or bad genes kick in, but taking common-sense care of
oneself improves the living hell out of the odds. In country after
country that adopts the US style of eating and daily life, the
formerly-rare US style illnesses follow, and lifespan starts dropping.

--
aem sends...

harry wrote:


Well ours is called Pinewood Studios. Turns out material just as
claptrapish as Hollywood. I didn't mention it because I don't suppose
many people in America have heard of it.

Of course we have. George Lucas made sure of that.

--
aem sends...

Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Our mistake was not annexing the island - as we did Puerto Rico and Guam,
after 1898. We just "administered" the island until about 1902 when we
granted Cubans their independence.

Or as Sen SI Hyakawa stated so succinctly during the Panama Canal
Debate: "Of course its ours, we stole it fair and square."


ISTR a compatriot of TR's advised him to not try to dress up his taking
of the canal zone with any banal explantions, on the grounds that such
an audacious theft spoke for itself, and any window-dressing would only
diminish his legacy.

Or words to that effect- I don't care enough to look it up.

--
aem sends...

On 5/25/2010 12:13 PM harry spake thus:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. I couldn't fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

I agree.

Let the flames rise higher and higher! (Here in this newsgroup, I mean.)


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

In ,
Higgs Boson wrote:

On May 26, 9:42*am, Peter wrote:
On 5/26/2010 12:10 PM, harry wrote:

On May 26, 10:51 am, "Ed *wrote:
*wrote

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

At any given time, there are hundreds of US citizens in Cuba. Have a good
reason t go, fill out the forms, and you get permission. There is a also a
difference between free and good.

So, you need permission? *On what grounds might that permission be
rejected? *Why should you need permission anyway?

It's true. *It is illegal for the average U.S. private citizen to
travel to Cuba (e.g. for tourism) without explicit permission from the
Department of State. It's a legacy from the American foreign policy
towards Cuba (part of the blockade mentality) that was implemented in
the early 1960s, after the failed Bay of Pigs invasion. *Isn't it great
how often we in this country (U.S.A.) complain officially (at the U.N.
and Dept. of State) and unofficially about other country's foreign
policies being stuck in the past? *Time for us to look in the mirror
and realize that we can be hypocritical too.

My understanding is that one can travel to Cuba but one cannot spend
money there.

One travels via Toronto or a Mexican city. Buy one ticket to that
destination and a new ticket to Cuba.

SNIP from here to edit for space

I have friends in Canada, especially Toronto. One of them tells me that
he has vacationed in Cuba, and that some Americans do. They go to
Toronto, get a separate ticket to Cuba, and have Cuban customs stamp a
separate piece of paper for Americans to keep in their US Passports until
they return to Canada. Another thing my Cuba-vacationing Toronto friend
tells me is that Americans doing this trick are doing so in violation of
US law, and theoretically can be punished after returning to US.

--
- Don Klipstein )

In ,
wrote:

On May 26, 4:02*pm, Higgs Boson wrote:

SNIP to here to edit mostly for space

All these years of enforcing poverty on the Cuban PEOPLE as opposed to
the "Communist" government, would have been unnecessary had the
U.S. govt. not been so eager to kiss the *** of the Miami exiles who
never got over having their property confiscated and their families
brutalized.

You act as if that is an easy thing that one should just "get over".
The fact is, besides brutalizing the Cuban people and seizing their
private property, Castro seized and nationalized billions worth of
property owned by US interests. And he hasn't been exactly bending
over backwards to either right that wrong or seek a more favorable
relationship with the US.

TRADE is always the best medicine! *

I suppose we should start free trade with North Korea and Iran too?

How is trade with Cuba worse than trade with Red China?

Snip from here, especially stuff on blaming only one political party or
both the major ones

--
- Don Klipstein )

In article , HeyBub wrote:
harry wrote:

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number of
Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

Does Canada have a shorter life expectancy due to having fewer than 200
MRI scanners? And 1/10 of USA's population?

I remember a case at a time when gamma knifes were only 40% utilized,
and some hospital in Chicago determined that it would cost less to fly
patients to Denver and back (maybe even hotel them also) than to get a
gamma knife of their own. But their star neurosurgeon said that if his
hospital did not get their own gamma knife, then he would change jobs to a
hospital that had one. Do USA's MRI scanners have similar excessive
duplication?

--
- Don Klipstein )

In article , chaniarts wrote:
hibb wrote:
On May 26, 12:45 pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
hibb wrote:
On May 26, 7:25 am, "HeyBub" wrote:
-snip-

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole
country of Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI
machines in my CITY than in the whole country of Canada.

Do yo have a cite for that?

That's one of those oft repeated lies that if they get told often
enough they become true.

But the lie aside- It isn't how many MRIs you have that make
healthcare for everyone work. It is how much access to good
healthcare everyone has.

MRIs & similar expensive machines are part of our problem with
out-of-control healthcare costs. A Dr. buys a machine and starts all
his diagnostics by using the damn thing so the patient's insurance
company can pay for it.

Jim
BTW- I've asked a half dozen Canadians that I've met if they'd prefer
our healthcare system to theirs & so far, no takers.

Then consider the fact that Sarah Palin admitted that when they needed
health care when she was young they headed for the boarder for the
Canadian health care system.

then consider that the prime minister of canada went to the us for medical
care.

I know about 30 Canadians, and 100% them would refuse to trade their
healthcare system for what USA has. This includes a receptionist and
other office workers, a PhD chemist, a recently retired Toronto police
detective who now owns his own little company based heavily on a very
impressive machine shop, another company's CEO and the owner of that
company, and several relatives of some of these.

--
- Don Klipstein )

In , HeyBub wrote in part:

Ah, but here's where your logic fails: There is no enterprise, health care,
education, etc., that cannot be done cheaper and better by private industry.
Take education, for example. No amount of money can improve it as long as it
remains primarily a government purview.

You don't seem to understand "wealth." The only people who believe in a
"national wealth" are those who believe wealth is a fixed commodity and
needs to be re-distributed. To a liberal, wealth is like energy: it can be
moved around but it cannot be created or destroyed.

To a conservative, wealth is like a souffle, it can rise or it can flop.

A real-life and obvious example of wealth increase or decrease is the stock
market.

Every dollar the government spends in the general marketplace is a
dollar of wealth destroyed. Every transaction entered into by a willing
buyer and a willing seller creates wealth.

The way I hear it from a conservative engineer and a conservative
manufacturing company owner, wealth is created by making nothing or things
that are worth less or worthless into things that are worth more.
As in, at least traditionally described, mining and agriculture and
manufacturing - making goods from dirt, making raw materials into valuable
goods, especially making goods production tools.

If any transaction between willing partners creates wealth as you say,
do you claim lack of exceptions? What if one of the parties is dishonest
and the other is incompetent? What if one party pays the other to destroy
something that has value?

--
- Don Klipstein )

In ,
wrote:
On May 27, 11:06*am, Mac Cool wrote:
HeyBub:

Ah, but here's where your logic fails: There is no enterprise, health
care, education, etc., that cannot be done cheaper and better by
private industry.

Give me some examples, education and health care for starters.

In the case of education, you only need to look at private schools
versus public schools. Which is producing a better product in terms
of educated students. In areas where vouchers have been implemented
so that parents can decide whether to send their children to public
schools or use the voucher for private schools, the results have been
the private schools are doing a far better job. Such a good job that
the NEA does everything it can to block any use of school vouchers.
Now, if they are doing as good a job as the private schools, why are
they in favor of school vouchers?

In the case of public healthcare, take a look at the fraud going on in
Medicare/Medicaid. It's been widely reported that about 1/3 of all
claims in Florida are bogus. There are clinics all over the place
that are listed in the phone book, turning in hundreds of thousands in
bogus claims a month. And the place actually consists of an empty
building, with maybe one desk and a phone. 60 minutes went with
investigators to several of them in a story they did about it. They
showed an old lady who for the past 6 years has been calling Medicare
to report bogus items showing up on her account: wheelchairs, beds,
walkers. They interviewed another man who was billed through
Medicare for two prosthetic arms for tens of thousands of dollars, yet
his arms are intact.

Don;t believe me? Ask Obama. One of his most remarkable claims for
funding his new healthcare was that he was gonna recover billions in
waste and fraud from Medicare/Medicaid. Only in America. Anywhere
else, the logical response would be, "you idiot, if the govt can't run
those, how are you gonna run an even bigger boondoggle?

How about run healthcare and healthcare coverage the way it is run in
countries where it works well and costs less? Canadians tell me that they
like what they have (100% of about 30), and I don't even hear complaints
about the healthcare or healthcare coverage systems of France or Germany.

--
- Don Klipstein )

On May 27, 7:32*pm, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2010 13:43:08 -0700 (PDT), hibb
wrote:



On May 27, 4:11*pm, Oren wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2010 00:29:10 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On May 26, 12:57?am, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 17:30:00 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Jeff The Drunk wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2010 12:13:18 -0700, harry wrote:

On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before. Hah. ?I couldn't
fault the man. ?He was so exactly correct.

Remember he is a film maker hence has ulterior motivation to be
entertaining first and informative second.

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? *Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.

It's not true because your friend, Michael Moore said it! I have a
choice not to go too Cuba, but I can get there from other places.
Except I let my passport expire -- on purpose.

HC care is also free in the UK. (by use of taxes)

Example of UK HC:

Organs removed in donor mix-up

"Forty-five people whose wishes were wrongly recorded have since died
and health officials will contact some 20 families whose relatives had
organs taken against their recorded wishes"

"Bereaved families will be told that the organ donor records of
800,000 people were wrongly recorded, leading to organs being removed
from some loved ones without consent.

Forty-five people whose wishes were wrongly recorded have since died
and health officials will contact some 20 families whose relatives had
organs taken against their recorded wishes. "

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...article7094454....

You are another of the brainwashed.

Call it as you wish. I'm not a Socialist, Marxists. Pink-O Communist.

Next you will say the Nazi invented propaganda.

Are you saying that horrible things that are a hell of a lot worse
than wrongly taking organs from dead people don't happen in the good
ole USA? Looks like you have that propaganda thing down pat.

Now, what did I say!?!

I use the TWO COW EXPLANATION.

Quoted, henceforth --

THE "TWO-COW EXPLANATION" OF WHAT MAKES...

A CHRISTIAN:
You have two cows. You keep one and give one to your neighbor.

A SOCIALIST:
You have two cows. The government takes one and gives it to your
neighbor.

A REPUBLICAN:
You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. So what?

A DEMOCRAT:
You have two cows. Your neighbor has none. You feel guilty for being
successful. You vote people into office who tax your cows, forcing you
to sell one to raise money to pay the tax. The people you voted for
then take the tax money and buy a cow and give it to your neighbor.
You feel righteous.

A COMMUNIST:
You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides you with
milk.

A FASCIST:
You have two cows. The government seizes both and sells you the milk.
You join the underground and start a campaign of sabotage.

DEMOCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE:
You have two cows. The government taxes you to the point you have to
sell both to support a man in a foreign country who has only one cow,
which was a gift from your government.

CAPITALISM, AMERICAN STYLE:
You have two cows. You sell one, buy a bull, and build a herd of cows.

BUREAUCRACY, AMERICAN STYLE:
You have two cows. The government takes them both, shoots one, milks
the other, pays you for the milk, then pours the milk down the drain.

AN AMERICAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You sell one, and force the other to produce the
milk of four cows. You are surprised when the cow drops dead.

A FRENCH CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You go on strike because you want three cows.

A JAPANESE CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You redesign them so they are one-tenth the size of
an ordinary cow and produce twenty times the milk.

A GERMAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You reengineer them so they live for 100 years, eat
once a month, and milk themselves.

AN ITALIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows but you don't know where they are. *You break for
lunch.

A RUSSIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You count them and learn you have five cows. You
count them again and learn you have 42 cows. You count them again and
learn you have 12 cows. You stop counting cows and open another bottle
of vodka.

A MEXICAN CORPORATION:
You think you have two cows, but you don't know what a cow looks like.
You take a nap.

A SWISS CORPORATION:
You have 5000 cows, none of which belongs to you. You charge for
storing them for others.

A BRAZILIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You enter into a partnership with an American
corporation. Soon you have 1000 cows and the American corporation
declares bankruptcy.

AN INDIAN CORPORATION:
You have two cows. You worship them.


I see. You are saying that you are stupid and can only copy and paste
and not answer real questions.

Thanks,

David

On Thu, 27 May 2010 19:28:29 -0700 (PDT), hibb
wrote:

I see. You are saying that you are stupid and can only copy and paste
and not answer real questions.

Thanks,

David

I'm sorry. Did you have a real question, something I can answer?

In case you forgot. The subject is OT Michael Moore.

--
Never fart in a space suit

aemeijers wrote in
news
Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:

Our mistake was not annexing the island - as we did Puerto Rico and
Guam, after 1898. We just "administered" the island until about 1902
when we granted Cubans their independence.

Or as Sen SI Hyakawa stated so succinctly during the Panama Canal
Debate: "Of course its ours, we stole it fair and square."


ISTR a compatriot of TR's advised him to not try to dress up his
taking of the canal zone with any banal explantions, on the grounds
that such an audacious theft spoke for itself, and any window-dressing
would only diminish his legacy.

Or words to that effect- I don't care enough to look it up.


"took it"? (the Canal)
we BUILT IT (at our cost)and paid Panama for it.
The French started it,quit,and we completed it,with much loss of life.
It gave great benefit to Panama.
Then Carter gave it back to them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...e_Panama_Canal

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com