harry wrote:
On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. I couldn't fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

It's funny that many main line theaters won't show his films in their
theaters in the US. Would you ever think that? America?
You have to go to the alternative theaters to see them.


--
LSMFT

I haven't spoken to my wife in 18 months.
I don't like to interrupt her.

On Wed, 26 May 2010 17:40:48 -0400, LSMFT wrote Re
OT Michael Moore.:

harry wrote:
On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. I couldn't fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

It's funny that many main line theaters won't show his films in their
theaters in the US. Would you ever think that? America?
You have to go to the alternative theaters to see them.

Probably because his stuff is a money loser for main-line theaters. If
his stuff was a big money Maker, I would guess that the theaters would
be more than happy to show them.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

On May 26, 4:02*pm, Higgs Boson wrote:
On May 26, 9:42*am, Peter wrote:





On 5/26/2010 12:10 PM, harry wrote:

On May 26, 10:51 am, "Ed *wrote:
*wrote

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

At any given time, there are hundreds of US citizens in Cuba. Have a good
reason t go, fill out the forms, and you get permission. There is a also a
difference between free and good.

So, you need permission? *On what grounds might that permission be
rejected? *Why should you need permission anyway?

It's true. *It is illegal for the average U.S. private citizen to travel to Cuba
(e.g. for tourism) without explicit permission from the Department of State.
It's a legacy from the American foreign policy towards Cuba (part of the
blockade mentality) that was implemented in the early 1960s, after the failed
Bay of Pigs invasion. *Isn't it great how often we in this country (U..S.A.)
complain officially (at the U.N. and Dept. of State) and unofficially about
other country's foreign policies being stuck in the past? *Time for us to look
in the mirror and realize that we can be hypocritical too.

My understanding is that one can travel to Cuba but one cannot spend
money
there.

One travels via Toronto or a Mexican city. *Buy one ticket to that
destination and
a new ticket to Cuba.

Had a wonderful trip, met the kindest, nicest people, *everyone spoke
freely
(I speak passable Spanish), saw the austere standard of living; the
stores
where rations are distributed by coupons, the ancient autos, etc. But
such wonderful people!

You also have to respect Cuban medicine for taking care of ALL the
population, not just those who can afford insurance, despite the
strictures
places on doctors and supplies and technology *by U.S. boycotts.

I read a LOT after returning, including the memoirs of Cuban resisters
who got out, and wrote understandably bitter accounts.

All these years of enforcing poverty on the Cuban PEOPLE as opposed to
the "Communist" government, would have been unnecessary had the
U.S. govt. not been so eager to kiss the *** of the Miami exiles who
never
got over having their property confiscated and their families
brutalized.


You act as if that is an easy thing that one should just "get over".
The fact is, besides brutalizing the Cuban people and seizing their
private property, Castro seized and nationalized billions worth of
property owned by US interests. And he hasn't been exactly bending
over backwards to either right that wrong or seek a more favorable
relationship with the US.




TRADE is always the best medicine! *

I suppose we should start free trade with North Korea and Iran too?


However, the Republican mad-dogs
who have taken over the Republican party were intent on keeping their
Congressional majority, and for that they needed the disaffected Cuban
exiles, and so the circle went round & round.

Uh huh, it's all the Republicans again. The Democrats have been in
control of the White House, the Congress, and in fact both for a good
portion of the 45 years since the trade embargo went into effect.
Last time I checked, they've had solid control of both for the last 16
months, so why is this a Republican issue?




If the U.S. instead had allowed investment and travel in Cuba, trust
me,
the whole structure would have collapsed long ago. *One would like
to think it wouldn't have reverted to Batista-style sexual and
politial
corruption, but rather a happy blend of capitalism and socialism.

Now we'll never know. But it's not too late to get realistic!

BTW: For movie fans, I highly recommend "Antes que anochezca"
(I hope the spelling is right) in English "Before Night Falls",
a wonderful dramatization of the life of a real Cuban poet who
was persecuted for being homosexual (one of Fidel's pet hates),
Fidel *studied the Chinese method, which involved inviting gays to
a park meeting and drowning them.

It stars Javier Bardem, one of THE most fantastic actors on
the screen today.

Ho, hum - was there ever a dictator who didn't overstay his
welcome... Fidel, Stalin, Mao, on and on.

Lord Acton: *Power corrupts. *Absolute power corrupts
absolutely.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On May 26, 12:45*pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
hibb wrote:
On May 26, 7:25*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
-snip-

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

Do yo have a cite for that?

That's one of those oft repeated lies that if they get told often
enough they become true. * *

But the lie aside- * It isn't how many MRIs you have that make
healthcare for everyone work. * *It is how much access to good
healthcare everyone has.

MRIs & similar expensive machines are part of our problem with
out-of-control healthcare costs. *A Dr. buys a machine and starts all
his diagnostics by using the damn thing so the patient's insurance
company can pay for it.


So, your doctor gives you an MRI on every office visit? Mine
doesn't. Never had one or a CAT scan either. But I'm damn glad we
do have them, in case I ever need one.




Jim
BTW- I've asked a half dozen Canadians that I've met if they'd prefer
our healthcare system to theirs & so far, no takers.

On May 26, 12:08*pm, harry wrote:
On May 26, 12:25 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:





harry wrote:

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number of
Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

Free is better than *"it's there but only for the wealthy".- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That;s another lie, often repeated. Any indigent person in the USA
can walk in to an emergency room and the hospital must treat them.

On May 26, 12:07*pm, harry wrote:
On May 26, 11:29 am, Caesar Romano wrote:





On Tue, 25 May 2010 14:34:50 -0700 (PDT), RickH
wrote Re OT Michael Moore.:

On May 25, 2:13 pm, harry wrote:
On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. I couldn't fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

I heard he makes films for money, selling tickets and DVD's to whoever
will buy them. What did you hear?

I heard the same thing; and also that he exaggerates, misrepresents
and often sometimes fabricates the "facts" he presents. I heard he
does this to increase his sales/profits. Could that be true?
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

I hear everyone who makes films & DVDs sells theem fo rmoney. So what?



The difference in Moore's case is he fails to differentiate fact from
fiction. He's carrying on where the other skunk, Oliver Stone left
off, re-writing history.



Who told you these things? *Why don't you check out any facts you
think are wrong? * Give me one of these facts & we'll both check it
out.
You are full of BS. *You feed on rumour.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

hibb wrote:

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole
country of Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI
machines in my CITY than in the whole country of Canada.

Do yo have a cite for that?

"Pittsburgh has more MRI machines than Canada"
http://healthcare-economist.com/2008...s-than-canada/

"... the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI). Medical Imaging
in Canada, 2007 reports that in 2007, there were ... 222 MRI machines
installed and operational in Canada..."
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/119356.php

"At the beginning of 2005, Canada had 176 MRI scanners..."

"Canada ranked 12th, reporting 5.5 MRI scanners per million people. Japan
and the U.S. had the highest number, with 35.3 and 27.0 per million,
respectively..."

http://www.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage....ia_08feb2006_e

And others.

In my city, there are 82 radiographic and imaging centers, each with
presumably at least one MRI. We have more than 100 hospitals, the largest
having 1,500 beds. At least half of these hospitals have MRI machines. The
city also has several hundred radiologists, orthopedists, and other
specialists with an MRI machine in the office.

Then consider that more US people go to other countries for health care
than
foreigners come here.

Because it's a hell of a lot cheaper ANYWHERE but here.

On May 26, 5:34*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
hibb wrote:

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole
country of Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI
machines in my CITY than in the whole country of Canada.

Do yo have a cite for that?

"Pittsburgh has more MRI machines than Canada"http://healthcare-economist..com/2008/02/11/pittsburgh-has-more-mri-ma...

"... the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI). Medical Imaging
in Canada, 2007 reports that in 2007, there were ... 222 MRI machines
installed and operational in Canada..."http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/119356.php

"At the beginning of 2005, Canada had 176 MRI scanners..."

"Canada ranked 12th, reporting 5.5 MRI scanners per million people. Japan
and the U.S. had the highest number, with 35.3 and 27.0 per million,
respectively..."

http://www.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage....ia_08feb2006_e

And others.

In my city, there are 82 radiographic and imaging centers, each with
presumably at least one MRI. We have more than 100 hospitals, the largest
having 1,500 beds. At least half of these hospitals have MRI machines. The
city also has several hundred radiologists, orthopedists, and other
specialists with an MRI machine in the office.

According to the latest data, the United States has just over one MRI
scanner for every 40,000 people. That number that may not sound high,
but it means that we have more than three times as many devices per
person as you will find in the United Kingdom or France, and almost
four times as many as in Canada. Only Japan, an MRI-happy outlier, has
more.

wrote:
So, your doctor gives you an MRI on every office visit? Mine
doesn't. Never had one or a CAT scan either. But I'm damn glad we
do have them, in case I ever need one.


My doctor has ordered several CAT scans (I can't have MRIs) none of which has
determined the treatment. In my opinion, they have all been a waste of money.

I tried to talk him out of the last one, but he insisted. Time for a new doctor?

HeyBub wrote:
hibb wrote:

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole
country of Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI
machines in my CITY than in the whole country of Canada.

Do yo have a cite for that?

"Pittsburgh has more MRI machines than Canada"
http://healthcare-economist.com/2008...s-than-canada/

"... the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI). Medical
Imaging in Canada, 2007 reports that in 2007, there were ... 222 MRI
machines installed and operational in Canada..."
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/119356.php

"At the beginning of 2005, Canada had 176 MRI scanners..."

"Canada ranked 12th, reporting 5.5 MRI scanners per million people.
Japan and the U.S. had the highest number, with 35.3 and 27.0 per
million, respectively..."

http://www.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage....ia_08feb2006_e

And others.

In my city, there are 82 radiographic and imaging centers, each with
presumably at least one MRI. We have more than 100 hospitals, the
largest having 1,500 beds. At least half of these hospitals have MRI
machines. The city also has several hundred radiologists,
orthopedists, and other specialists with an MRI machine in the office.

Sounds like proof of our wasteful system.

wrote:
On May 26, 12:08 pm, harry wrote:
On May 26, 12:25 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:





harry wrote:

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if
you could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number
of Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole
country of Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI
machines in my CITY than in the whole country of Canada.

Free is better than "it's there but only for the wealthy".- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That;s another lie, often repeated. Any indigent person in the USA
can walk in to an emergency room and the hospital must treat them.

But that treatment is only to get them out the door. It hardly matches the
medical care they need in the long term.

How many stories have we seen of patients dumped off outside homeless shelters
by hospitals?

harry wrote:
On May 26, 12:25�pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:

Second?
Thirds?
The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.
Imagine that.
How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? �Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.
Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number of
Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

Free is better than "it's there but only for the wealthy".

TANSTAAFL. You always pay, one way or the other- in actual money, in
increased taxes, in reduced wages if your employer pays. Ain;t nothing free.

--
aem sends...

On 05/26/10 07:12 pm, Bob F wrote:

So, your doctor gives you an MRI on every office visit? Mine
doesn't. Never had one or a CAT scan either. But I'm damn glad we
do have them, in case I ever need one.

My doctor has ordered several CAT scans (I can't have MRIs) none of which has
determined the treatment. In my opinion, they have all been a waste of money.

I tried to talk him out of the last one, but he insisted. Time for a new doctor?

I think it's called "defensive medicine": do every test imaginable just
in case somebody sues the physician or the hospital for missing one.

Perce

On 05/26/10 07:16 pm, aemeijers wrote:

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number of
Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole
country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

Free is better than "it's there but only for the wealthy".

TANSTAAFL. You always pay, one way or the other- in actual money, in
increased taxes, in reduced wages if your employer pays. Ain;t nothing
free.

And many Americans are happy to pay vast sums to insurance companies,
hospitals and physicians, just so they can boast about their low taxes
-- but then they bitch about the taxes anyway.

Perce

On Wed, 26 May 2010 19:16:42 -0400, aemeijers wrote:
harry wrote:
On May 26, 12:25???pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:

Second?
Thirds?
The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.
Imagine that.
How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? ???Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.
Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number of
Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

Free is better than "it's there but only for the wealthy".

TANSTAAFL. You always pay, one way or the other- in actual money, in
increased taxes, in reduced wages if your employer pays. Ain;t nothing free.

Unless, of course, there are economies of scale.

Bob F wrote:
wrote:
So, your doctor gives you an MRI on every office visit? Mine
doesn't. Never had one or a CAT scan either. But I'm damn glad we
do have them, in case I ever need one.


My doctor has ordered several CAT scans (I can't have MRIs) none of which has
determined the treatment. In my opinion, they have all been a waste of money.

I tried to talk him out of the last one, but he insisted. Time for a new doctor?



If you have medical problems and your physician repeats the same
diagnostic procedure with no diagnosis, it may be time for a new doc.
It would be for me....I have the opposite problem ) My doc should
have ordered a cat scan when I started having blurred vision. Three eye
doctors, two different prescriptions, still vision problems. After
return visit to the last doc, I still had weird vision symptoms. Went
back again, after I was pretty sure of the diagnosis, and he agreed with
mine...ocular migraines. A migraine headache with no pain ) He still
should have done a cat scan to rule out brain tumor or MS, but if it was
MS I'd not be in a hurry for the diagnosis )

Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 05/26/10 07:12 pm, Bob F wrote:

So, your doctor gives you an MRI on every office visit? Mine
doesn't. Never had one or a CAT scan either. But I'm damn glad we
do have them, in case I ever need one.

My doctor has ordered several CAT scans (I can't have MRIs) none of
which has
determined the treatment. In my opinion, they have all been a waste of
money.

I tried to talk him out of the last one, but he insisted. Time for a
new doctor?

I think it's called "defensive medicine": do every test imaginable just
in case somebody sues the physician or the hospital for missing one.

Perce

Malpractice is an area where the Canadians are way ahead of US. They
don't settle on legalized blackmail...they fight all claims, have one
organization that all docs belong to and pay for. As long as most of
our legislators are attorneys, out system will continue to suck.

My doctor has ordered several CAT scans (I can't have MRIs) none of which
has determined the treatment. In my opinion, they have all been a waste of
money.

I tried to talk him out of the last one, but he insisted. Time for a new
doctor?


Anyone who thinks they need any of that crap either needs a new brain, a new
doctor, or a better gene pool. Sorry, but if you "need" to see a doctor for
a non-injury, you have crappy genes and should just lie down and die now.
Sorry, but that's the way it is. That's why those of us who are healthy and
NEVER need to see a doctor unless we've been injured will never, ever be
able to afford to see one. Good thing I'm an expert seamstress. At least
I'll be able to sew myself up should anything ever happen. 5 years ago I
needed 10 stitches in the ER at 4am. $1,500 and I was in there for less than
30 minutes. Really? Umm, no, never again. He left me a MASSIVE scar and I
got infected because he laced the sutures too tightly, even though I told
him my skin was still swelling. Moron.

We purchased some suture kits and other medical stuff. I will, never, ever
have a "medical professional" touch me ever again. Maybe in 13 years when I
hit Medicare age, but not likely. I doubt I will buy into Medicare. It's
not like they pay for everything yet it costs over $50 a month. I've spent
about $100 on healthcare in the last 4 years. Yeah, like I'll be signing up
for that money sink. Not so much.

On 5/26/2010 7:12 PM, Bob F wrote:
wrote:
So, your doctor gives you an MRI on every office visit? Mine
doesn't. Never had one or a CAT scan either. But I'm damn glad we
do have them, in case I ever need one.


My doctor has ordered several CAT scans (I can't have MRIs) none of which has
determined the treatment. In my opinion, they have all been a waste of money.

I tried to talk him out of the last one, but he insisted. Time for a new doctor?



Thank the tort system. I had a conversation with a nephrologist who
mentioned he had been treating a women for the last year and a half and
she'd averaged one CT scan a month during that time... all negative...
while they unsuccessfully tried to diagnose her symptoms.

I asked him if he seriously thought that another CT scan would show what
so many others hadn't and he said: "Of course not... but if I *don't*
order one and something happens, a lawyer will have my guts for garters
because I didn't order one."

So an expensive test is ordered essentially to head off an attorney and
for no other reason. Your health dollars at work.




Jay

BTW: If I didn't mention it before, please add me to the list of folks
who consider Michael Moore a fat piece of ****.

On May 26, 7:47�pm, Frank wrote:
On 5/26/2010 12:02 PM, harry wrote:





On May 26, 12:49 pm, �wrote:
On May 26, 7:25 am, �wrote:

harry wrote:

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number of
Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

When Castro had that mysterious surgery a few years ago, I believe
they imported a doctor from Spain.
Wonder as a Communist country, if this option is open to all the Cuban
people?

I also believe when Cuba sends doctors to help friends, like
Venezuala, they are accompanied by guards to make sure they do not
defect.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why do you believe that? Fox News I expect!

Feel free to research it yourself. �Let us know, with references, if I'm
wrong.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So, an admission that you just pull this crap out of the air then? I
bet you believe the moon is made of green chees because your neighbour
says so.

On May 26, 9:02�pm, Higgs Boson wrote:
On May 26, 9:42�am, Peter wrote:





On 5/26/2010 12:10 PM, harry wrote:

On May 26, 10:51 am, "Ed �wrote:
�wrote

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

At any given time, there are hundreds of US citizens in Cuba. Have a good
reason t go, fill out the forms, and you get permission. There is a also a
difference between free and good.

So, you need permission? �On what grounds might that permission be
rejected? �Why should you need permission anyway?

It's true. �It is illegal for the average U.S. private citizen to travel to Cuba
(e.g. for tourism) without explicit permission from the Department of State.
It's a legacy from the American foreign policy towards Cuba (part of the
blockade mentality) that was implemented in the early 1960s, after the failed
Bay of Pigs invasion. �Isn't it great how often we in this country (U.S.A.)
complain officially (at the U.N. and Dept. of State) and unofficially about
other country's foreign policies being stuck in the past? �Time for us to look
in the mirror and realize that we can be hypocritical too.

My understanding is that one can travel to Cuba but one cannot spend
money
there.

One travels via Toronto or a Mexican city. �Buy one ticket to that
destination and
a new ticket to Cuba.

Had a wonderful trip, met the kindest, nicest people, �everyone spoke
freely
(I speak passable Spanish), saw the austere standard of living; the
stores
where rations are distributed by coupons, the ancient autos, etc. But
such wonderful people!

You also have to respect Cuban medicine for taking care of ALL the
population, not just those who can afford insurance, despite the
strictures
places on doctors and supplies and technology �by U.S. boycotts.

I read a LOT after returning, including the memoirs of Cuban resisters
who got out, and wrote understandably bitter accounts.

All these years of enforcing poverty on the Cuban PEOPLE as opposed to
the "Communist" government, would have been unnecessary had the
U.S. govt. not been so eager to kiss the *** of the Miami exiles who
never
got over having their property confiscated and their families
brutalized.

TRADE is always the best medicine! �However, the Republican mad-dogs
who have taken over the Republican party were intent on keeping their
Congressional majority, and for that they needed the disaffected Cuban
exiles, and so the circle went round & round.

If the U.S. instead had allowed investment and travel in Cuba, trust
me,
the whole structure would have collapsed long ago. �One would like
to think it wouldn't have reverted to Batista-style sexual and
politial
corruption, but rather a happy blend of capitalism and socialism.

Now we'll never know. But it's not too late to get realistic!

BTW: For movie fans, I highly recommend "Antes que anochezca"
(I hope the spelling is right) in English "Before Night Falls",
a wonderful dramatization of the life of a real Cuban poet who
was persecuted for being homosexual (one of Fidel's pet hates),
Fidel �studied the Chinese method, which involved inviting gays to
a park meeting and drowning them.

It stars Javier Bardem, one of THE most fantastic actors on
the screen today.

Ho, hum - was there ever a dictator who didn't overstay his
welcome... Fidel, Stalin, Mao, on and on.

Lord Acton: �Power corrupts. �Absolute power corrupts
absolutely.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes exactly right. The reason tfor poverty in Cuba is the economic war
waged against it by the USA. And Castro would be long gone. His
regime has made the US a reason for staying.

A better rendition of your power thing is:-
"Power attracts the corruptable."
I think that's a truer statement. I could run out a string of UK
politicians this applies to. Scum they are.

On May 26, 10:40�pm, LSMFT wrote:
harry wrote:
On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. �I couldn't fault the man. �He was so exactly correct.

It's funny that many main line theaters won't show his films in their
theaters in the US. Would you ever think that? America?
You have to go to the alternative theaters to see them.

--
LSMFT

I haven't spoken to my wife in 18 months.
I don't like to interrupt her.

It doesn't fit in with US government propaganda. Lots of people in the
US have a fixed mind set. They don't like it to be disturbed by
different ideas.

On May 26, 10:53�pm, wrote:
On May 26, 4:02�pm, Higgs Boson wrote:





On May 26, 9:42�am, Peter wrote:

On 5/26/2010 12:10 PM, harry wrote:

On May 26, 10:51 am, "Ed �wrote:
�wrote

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

At any given time, there are hundreds of US citizens in Cuba. Have a good
reason t go, fill out the forms, and you get permission. There is a also a
difference between free and good.

So, you need permission? �On what grounds might that permission be
rejected? �Why should you need permission anyway?

It's true. �It is illegal for the average U.S. private citizen to travel to Cuba
(e.g. for tourism) without explicit permission from the Department of State.
It's a legacy from the American foreign policy towards Cuba (part of the
blockade mentality) that was implemented in the early 1960s, after the failed
Bay of Pigs invasion. �Isn't it great how often we in this country (U.S.A.)
complain officially (at the U.N. and Dept. of State) and unofficially about
other country's foreign policies being stuck in the past? �Time for us to look
in the mirror and realize that we can be hypocritical too.

My understanding is that one can travel to Cuba but one cannot spend
money
there.

One travels via Toronto or a Mexican city. �Buy one ticket to that
destination and
a new ticket to Cuba.

Had a wonderful trip, met the kindest, nicest people, �everyone spoke
freely
(I speak passable Spanish), saw the austere standard of living; the
stores
where rations are distributed by coupons, the ancient autos, etc. But
such wonderful people!

You also have to respect Cuban medicine for taking care of ALL the
population, not just those who can afford insurance, despite the
strictures
places on doctors and supplies and technology �by U.S. boycotts..

I read a LOT after returning, including the memoirs of Cuban resisters
who got out, and wrote understandably bitter accounts.

All these years of enforcing poverty on the Cuban PEOPLE as opposed to
the "Communist" government, would have been unnecessary had the
U.S. govt. not been so eager to kiss the *** of the Miami exiles who
never
got over having their property confiscated and their families
brutalized.

You act as if that is an easy thing that one should just "get over".
The fact is, besides brutalizing the Cuban people and seizing their
private property, Castro seized and nationalized billions worth of
property owned by US interests. � And he hasn't been exactly bending
over backwards to either right that wrong or seek a more favorable
relationship with the US.

TRADE is always the best medicine! �

I suppose we should start free trade with North Korea and Iran too?

However, the Republican mad-dogs

who have taken over the Republican party were intent on keeping their
Congressional majority, and for that they needed the disaffected Cuban
exiles, and so the circle went round & round.

Uh huh, it's all the Republicans again. � The Democrats have been in
control of the White House, the Congress, and in fact both for a good
portion of the 45 years since the trade embargo went into effect.
Last time I checked, they've had solid control of both for the last 16
months, so why is this a Republican issue?


They never owned it to start with. Just as you stole the indian
lands.

On May 26, 10:59�pm, wrote:
On May 26, 12:07�pm, harry wrote:





On May 26, 11:29 am, Caesar Romano wrote:

On Tue, 25 May 2010 14:34:50 -0700 (PDT), RickH
wrote Re OT Michael Moore.:

On May 25, 2:13 pm, harry wrote:
On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. I couldn't fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

I heard he makes films for money, selling tickets and DVD's to whoever
will buy them. What did you hear?

I heard the same thing; and also that he exaggerates, misrepresents
and often sometimes fabricates the "facts" he presents. I heard he
does this to increase his sales/profits. Could that be true?
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

I hear everyone who makes films & DVDs sells theem fo rmoney. So what?

The difference in Moore's case is he fails to differentiate fact from
fiction. �He's carrying on where the other skunk, Oliver Stone left
off, re-writing history.





Who told you these things? �Why don't you check out any facts you
think are wrong? � Give me one of these facts & we'll both check it
out.
You are full of BS. �You feed on rumour.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Which bit has he rewrote?

On May 26, 11:49�pm, RickH wrote:
On May 26, 5:34�pm, "HeyBub" wrote:





hibb wrote:

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole
country of Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI
machines in my CITY than in the whole country of Canada.

Do yo have a cite for that?

"Pittsburgh has more MRI machines than Canada"http://healthcare-economist.com/2008/02/11/pittsburgh-has-more-mri-ma...

"... the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI). Medical Imaging
in Canada, 2007 reports that in 2007, there were ... 222 MRI machines
installed and operational in Canada..."http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/119356.php

"At the beginning of 2005, Canada had 176 MRI scanners..."

"Canada ranked 12th, reporting 5.5 MRI scanners per million people. Japan
and the U.S. had the highest number, with 35.3 and 27.0 per million,
respectively..."

http://www.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage....ia_08feb2006_e

And others.

In my city, there are 82 radiographic and imaging centers, each with
presumably at least one MRI. We have more than 100 hospitals, the largest
having 1,500 beds. At least half of these hospitals have MRI machines. The
city also has several hundred radiologists, orthopedists, and other
specialists with an MRI machine in the office.

According to the latest data, the United States has just over one MRI
scanner for every 40,000 people. That number that may not sound high,
but it means that we have more than three times as many devices per
person as you will find in the United Kingdom or France, and almost
four times as many as in Canada. Only Japan, an MRI-happy outlier, has
more.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Cite where this data came from! It may be true.
The reason the Japs have more is that they are nearly all made in
Japan.

On May 27, 12:16�am, "Bob F" wrote:
wrote:
On May 26, 12:08 pm, harry wrote:
On May 26, 12:25 pm, "HeyBub" wrote:

harry wrote:

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if
you could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number
of Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole
country of Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI
machines in my CITY than in the whole country of Canada.

Free is better than "it's there but only for the wealthy".- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That;s another lie, often repeated. � Any indigent person in the USA
can walk in to an emergency room and the hospital must treat them.

But that treatment is only to get them out the door. It hardly matches the
medical care they need in the long term.

How many stories have we seen of patients dumped off outside homeless shelters
by hospitals?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Aha. That's interesting. Never happens in the UK, there is no
(financial) motive.

On May 27, 2:41�am, "h" wrote:
My doctor has ordered several CAT scans (I can't have MRIs) none of which
has determined the treatment. In my opinion, they have all been a waste of
money.

I tried to talk him out of the last one, but he insisted. Time for a new
doctor?

Anyone who thinks they need any of that crap either needs a new brain, a new
doctor, or a better gene pool. Sorry, but if you "need" to see a doctor for
a non-injury, you have crappy genes and should just lie down and die now.
Sorry, but that's the way it is. That's why those of us who are healthy and
NEVER need to see a doctor unless we've been injured will never, ever be
able to afford to see one. Good thing I'm an expert seamstress. At least
I'll be able to sew myself up should anything ever happen. 5 years ago I
needed 10 stitches in the ER at 4am. $1,500 and I was in there for less than
30 minutes. Really? Umm, no, never again. He left me a MASSIVE scar and I
got infected because he laced the sutures too tightly, even though I told
him my skin was still swelling. Moron.

We purchased some suture kits and other medical stuff. I will, never, ever
have a "medical professional" touch me ever again. Maybe in 13 years when I
hit Medicare age, �but not likely. I doubt I will buy into Medicare. It's
not like they pay for everything yet it costs over $50 a month. I've spent
about $100 on healthcare in the last 4 years. Yeah, like I'll be signing up
for that money sink. Not so much.

Sheesh, (as I believe you say) You are a tough nut! :-)

On 5/27/2010 2:53 AM, harry wrote:
On May 26, 7:47�pm, wrote:
On 5/26/2010 12:02 PM, harry wrote:





On May 26, 12:49 pm, �wrote:
On May 26, 7:25 am, �wrote:

harry wrote:

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number of
Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

When Castro had that mysterious surgery a few years ago, I believe
they imported a doctor from Spain.
Wonder as a Communist country, if this option is open to all the Cuban
people?

I also believe when Cuba sends doctors to help friends, like
Venezuala, they are accompanied by guards to make sure they do not
defect.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why do you believe that? Fox News I expect!

Feel free to research it yourself. �Let us know, with references, if I'm
wrong.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So, an admission that you just pull this crap out of the air then? I
bet you believe the moon is made of green chees because your neighbour
says so.

You see my "Yo Harry" post to you with citations. I did not pull these
out of thin air.

On Wed, 26 May 2010 14:59:00 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On May 26, 12:07*pm, harry wrote:
On May 26, 11:29 am, Caesar Romano wrote:





On Tue, 25 May 2010 14:34:50 -0700 (PDT), RickH
wrote Re OT Michael Moore.:

On May 25, 2:13 pm, harry wrote:
On the box in the UK the other night, his film about capitalism in
America which I'd heard of but not seen before.
Hah. I couldn't fault the man. He was so exactly correct.

I heard he makes films for money, selling tickets and DVD's to whoever
will buy them. What did you hear?

I heard the same thing; and also that he exaggerates, misrepresents
and often sometimes fabricates the "facts" he presents. I heard he
does this to increase his sales/profits. Could that be true?
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

I hear everyone who makes films & DVDs sells theem fo rmoney. So what?



The difference in Moore's case is he fails to differentiate fact from
fiction. He's carrying on where the other skunk, Oliver Stone left
off, re-writing history.




Maybe you can though. What facts did Michael Moore get wrong?

On Wed, 26 May 2010 14:53:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On May 26, 4:02*pm, Higgs Boson wrote:
On May 26, 9:42*am, Peter wrote:





On 5/26/2010 12:10 PM, harry wrote:

On May 26, 10:51 am, "Ed *wrote:
*wrote

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

At any given time, there are hundreds of US citizens in Cuba. Have a good
reason t go, fill out the forms, and you get permission. There is a also a
difference between free and good.

So, you need permission? *On what grounds might that permission be
rejected? *Why should you need permission anyway?

It's true. *It is illegal for the average U.S. private citizen to travel to Cuba
(e.g. for tourism) without explicit permission from the Department of State.
It's a legacy from the American foreign policy towards Cuba (part of the
blockade mentality) that was implemented in the early 1960s, after the failed
Bay of Pigs invasion. *Isn't it great how often we in this country (U.S.A.)
complain officially (at the U.N. and Dept. of State) and unofficially about
other country's foreign policies being stuck in the past? *Time for us to look
in the mirror and realize that we can be hypocritical too.

My understanding is that one can travel to Cuba but one cannot spend
money
there.

One travels via Toronto or a Mexican city. *Buy one ticket to that
destination and
a new ticket to Cuba.

Had a wonderful trip, met the kindest, nicest people, *everyone spoke
freely
(I speak passable Spanish), saw the austere standard of living; the
stores
where rations are distributed by coupons, the ancient autos, etc. But
such wonderful people!

You also have to respect Cuban medicine for taking care of ALL the
population, not just those who can afford insurance, despite the
strictures
places on doctors and supplies and technology *by U.S. boycotts.

I read a LOT after returning, including the memoirs of Cuban resisters
who got out, and wrote understandably bitter accounts.

All these years of enforcing poverty on the Cuban PEOPLE as opposed to
the "Communist" government, would have been unnecessary had the
U.S. govt. not been so eager to kiss the *** of the Miami exiles who
never
got over having their property confiscated and their families
brutalized.


You act as if that is an easy thing that one should just "get over".
The fact is, besides brutalizing the Cuban people and seizing their
private property, Castro seized and nationalized billions worth of
property owned by US interests. And he hasn't been exactly bending
over backwards to either right that wrong or seek a more favorable
relationship with the US.



I remember how that happened. They Cubans asked the foreign companies
to pay taxes on the value of their Cuban holdings, and were lowballed
of course. So Castro offered to buy the companies at the value they
themselves set. They refused of course, so Castro just took them.

After decades of ripping off the Cuban people under the Batista
dictatorship (supported by the democracy loving USA), I have no
problem with Castro doing what he did.

In article ,
Jay Hanig wrote:

So an expensive test is ordered essentially to head off an attorney and
for no other reason. Your health dollars at work.


Wait abotu 10 years or so for the effects of all that radiation to
show up.

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

On 5/26/2010 9:41 PM, h wrote:

My doctor has ordered several CAT scans (I can't have MRIs) none of which
has determined the treatment. In my opinion, they have all been a waste of
money.

I tried to talk him out of the last one, but he insisted. Time for a new
doctor?


Anyone who thinks they need any of that crap either needs a new brain, a new
doctor, or a better gene pool. Sorry, but if you "need" to see a doctor for
a non-injury, you have crappy genes and should just lie down and die now.
Sorry, but that's the way it is. That's why those of us who are healthy and
NEVER need to see a doctor unless we've been injured will never, ever be
able to afford to see one. Good thing I'm an expert seamstress. At least
I'll be able to sew myself up should anything ever happen. 5 years ago I
needed 10 stitches in the ER at 4am. $1,500 and I was in there for less than
30 minutes. Really? Umm, no, never again. He left me a MASSIVE scar and I
got infected because he laced the sutures too tightly, even though I told
him my skin was still swelling. Moron.

We purchased some suture kits and other medical stuff. I will, never, ever
have a "medical professional" touch me ever again. Maybe in 13 years when I
hit Medicare age, but not likely. I doubt I will buy into Medicare. It's
not like they pay for everything yet it costs over $50 a month. I've spent
about $100 on healthcare in the last 4 years. Yeah, like I'll be signing up
for that money sink. Not so much.


So, you think that your genes are so superior that you will never develop a
non-injury illness? You need to examine the actuarial data that medical
insurance companies use and learn that most people are healthy until the day
that they become sick. And most people who become sick have not had an injury.
I would bet my retirement fund that the day you develop an illness that
warrants medical attention, you'll get to the doctor for care and not "lie down
and die". Why are you blabbering on alt.home.repair you should take this to
home.brain.repair

On 5/26/2010 7:13 PM, Bob F wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
hibb wrote:

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole
country of Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI
machines in my CITY than in the whole country of Canada.

Do yo have a cite for that?

"Pittsburgh has more MRI machines than Canada"
http://healthcare-economist.com/2008...s-than-canada/

"... the Canadian Institute for Health Information (CIHI). Medical
Imaging in Canada, 2007 reports that in 2007, there were ... 222 MRI
machines installed and operational in Canada..."
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/119356.php

"At the beginning of 2005, Canada had 176 MRI scanners..."

"Canada ranked 12th, reporting 5.5 MRI scanners per million people.
Japan and the U.S. had the highest number, with 35.3 and 27.0 per
million, respectively..."

http://www.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage....ia_08feb2006_e

And others.

In my city, there are 82 radiographic and imaging centers, each with
presumably at least one MRI. We have more than 100 hospitals, the
largest having 1,500 beds. At least half of these hospitals have MRI
machines. The city also has several hundred radiologists,
orthopedists, and other specialists with an MRI machine in the office.

Sounds like proof of our wasteful system.


Exactly! All this machine counting nonsense. The bottom line is that the
average lifespan in the U.S. is well below that of countries that may have far
fewer state of the art diagnostic machines. What's important is if there are
enough machines available to perform the medically indicated tests, not how many
machines are available to order tests that are not medically indicated.

harry wrote:

Uh huh, it's all the Republicans again. ? The Democrats have been in
control of the White House, the Congress, and in fact both for a good
portion of the 45 years since the trade embargo went into effect.
Last time I checked, they've had solid control of both for the last
16 months, so why is this a Republican issue?


They never owned it to start with. Just as you stole the indian
lands.

We DID own it - Cuba, that is. We won it fair and square through trial by
combat with Spain (think "Rough Riders" "San Juan Hill," "Battleship Maine,"
etc.).

Our mistake was not annexing the island - as we did Puerto Rico and Guam,
after 1898. We just "administered" the island until about 1902 when we
granted Cubans their independence.

On May 26, 9:25*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
harry wrote:

Second?

Thirds?

The same guy who stated that Cuba has better health care than the
USA.

Imagine that.

How do you know it's not true as your gov. won't let you go and see
for yourself? *Cuban health care is free to everyone. Even you if you
could get there.
You are another of the brainwashed.

Free does not equal good.

Health care in Canada is free also, but we see a significant number of
Canadians in the U.S. for care.

For example, there are fewer than 200 MRI machines in the whole country of
Canada (and probably none in Cuba). We have more MRI machines in my CITY
than in the whole country of Canada.

Maybe that's why US 'health care' and I use word 'care' with some
reservation, is so expensive?
In the USA health 'insurance', is available to those who (or to whom
their employers choose to provide it), or on shared basis, at a cost
equivalent to some 12% to 18% of GDP; to those who qualify and do not
have any pre-existing condition.
Pre-existing being a word never heard/used in Canada, where basically
if you are sick, for any reason, you need care!

The costs in Canada being some 8% of GDP; but it covers everybody.
There are (or were) more people in the USA NOT covered by any form of
health care other than Medicaid? than the whole population of Canada,
where life expectancies are several years (3 to 4) longer and general
health is actually better than in the USA.

The Canadian system has it's problems like any; but at least one knows
that, if sick, care is available at no additional cost except perhaps
getting to one's doctor and to the hospital. And one does not go
bankrupt and or lose one home by getting ill. The health care system
is acombination of private practice doctors and specialists and
hospitals opertaed by private corporatuions all funded by governmnt
taxation. It also means that the governent, who are elected by us the
people, not a bunch of lobbyists, can exert some regulation of the
quality of health vcare

My private family doctor, paid by the health care sytem, prescribes
blood tests every few months. There is no cost, the results are
tabulated and sent electronically to our family doctor's practice
office and within a day or so the doctor phones and advises to remain
on or change medication. The cost to do the same job in an Arab Gulf
country was $30, total. The results were sent back to our Canadian
familiy doctor, via internet, for information and comment. Since 1992
have had two hospitalized operations; both non urgent and heart
condition testing. Good care and results; in one instance was in a
four person 'ward', with 3 beds occupied. In another in a 'private'
room.

My total federal and provincial (state) taxes are no more than the
health insurance premiums paid by a typical US family insurance. Most
western countries (Europe etc.) have had similar schemes since shortly
after WWII. Some have more extensive coverage than others.

It is probably inevitable that the USA being the biggest and richest
health market will attract the more expensive and highly skilled
medical practitioners. And IT is nice to know that for some very rare
or more specialised diseases/operations USA resources are available,
at a cost! Also certain types of less invasive surgery are well done
in the USA. And if anyone wants a tummy tuck or a face lift where
better to go?????

Michael Moore; ah yes he's that film maker, eh? Making a profit I
guess, in the good old American Way! And of course as a well informed
North American consumer one doesn't take everything that's on film as
'black and white' (or in colour) truth, nor it as being 'The whole
truth and nothing but .... "etc. But there are lots of other sources
of info; and one meets people from dfferent countries and societies
who range from having nothing in the way of state funded (that doesn't
mean state-run by the way) health care to even providing hot water
bottles for the indigent!

HeyBub:

Ah, but here's where your logic fails: There is no enterprise, health
care, education, etc., that cannot be done cheaper and better by
private industry.


Give me some examples, education and health care for starters.

harry wrote:

Cite where this data came from! It may be true.
The reason the Japs have more is that they are nearly all made in
Japan.

Once again, a made-up claim. Here is a list of ALL manufacturers of MRI
machines and their country of origin (for your convenience, they are listed
them in alphabetical order):

Esaote - Italy
Fonar - US
GE Medical Systems - US
Hitachi - Japan
Millennium Technology - Canada
Odin - Israel
ONI - Division of GE, US
Neusoft - China
Phillips - The Netherlands
Shimadzu - Japan
Siemens - Germany
Toshiba - Japan

Source: http://www.magnet-mri.org/resources/...rs/systems.htm

Only one-quarter of MRI manufacturers are Japanese-based. One quarter is far
from "nearly all."

Jay Hanig:

I asked him if he seriously thought that another CT scan would show
what so many others hadn't and he said: "Of course not... but if I
*don't* order one and something happens, a lawyer will have my guts
for garters because I didn't order one."

So an expensive test is ordered essentially to head off an attorney
and for no other reason. Your health dollars at work.

And you believed that?

Peter wrote:

Exactly! All this machine counting nonsense. The bottom line is
that the average lifespan in the U.S. is well below that of countries
that may have far fewer state of the art diagnostic machines. What's
important is if there are enough machines available to perform the
medically indicated tests, not how many machines are available to
order tests that are not medically indicated.

"Lifespan" is a poor metric for measuring health care.

* A life can be ended before the medical profession has an opportunity to
intervene. Automobile accidents, gang warfare, executions under a lawful
warrant, wars, suicides, and so on.
* The "lifespan" measurement can be jiggled somewhat. In the U.S., a
severely premature infant is assaulted by a massive medical response.
Regrettably, these heroic techniques often fail. In France, the infant is
allowed to expire and is counted as "stillborn."

A better metric for the evaluation of health care is survivability after
diagnosis. The five-year survival rate for breast cancer after diagnosis, if
I remember correctly, in the U.S. is 95%. In the UK, it is 58%. The U.S. is
at the top - or near it - in virtually all chronic (and acute) survivability
measures (heart disease, diabetes, all forms of cancer, and so on).