Hi, I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in case
of leaks. I don't think that a drain is practical, but I'd like
something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in. Space is
approximately 72" by 48';" I have to build the wall out a little as
the roof is slanted inside. Thanks! Deano

Deano wrote:
Hi, I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in case
of leaks. I don't think that a drain is practical, but I'd like
something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in. Space is
approximately 72" by 48';" I have to build the wall out a little as
the roof is slanted inside. Thanks! Deano

Use steel hoses for the washer and reduce chances for a catastrophe.
Why is a drain not practical since you also need a drain for the washer?

On Feb 9, 7:33*am, LouB wrote:
Deano wrote:
Hi, * I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. *I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in case
of leaks. *I don't think that a drain is practical, *but I'd like
something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in. *Space is
approximately 72" by 48';" *I have to build the wall out a little as
the roof is slanted inside. *Thanks! * *Deano

Use steel hoses for the washer and reduce chances for a catastrophe.
Why is a drain not practical since you also need a drain for the washer?

Agreed. No "pan" solution is going to solve your problem. The washer
holds more than you can possibly catch in a pan that is not connected
to a drain. I talked to a guy that had the solenoid water valve in
the washer fail on a 2nd story washer. The water just keep flowing
until it overflowed the washer tub. It was in a lake house so it ran
for 4 days before anyone found it.

On Feb 9, 8:06*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Feb 9, 7:33*am, LouB wrote:

Deano wrote:
Hi, * I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. *I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in case
of leaks. *I don't think that a drain is practical, *but I'd like
something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in. *Space is
approximately 72" by 48';" *I have to build the wall out a little as
the roof is slanted inside. *Thanks! * *Deano

Use steel hoses for the washer and reduce chances for a catastrophe.
Why is a drain not practical since you also need a drain for the washer?

Agreed. *No "pan" solution is going to solve your problem. *The washer
holds more than you can possibly catch in a pan that is not connected
to a drain. *I talked to a guy that had the solenoid water valve in
the washer fail on a 2nd story washer. *The water just keep flowing
until it overflowed the washer tub. *It was in a lake house so it ran
for 4 days before anyone found it.

A pan solution won't solve the worse case scenario, but it could
prevent less serious leaks from doing damage. But I agree that
trying to do something with the floor isn't likely to yield additional
protection in line with the work involved, unless it includes a drain.

There are several other options too:

1 - There are automatic electric shut-off valves available. They
only turn on the water when the machine is running, ie drawing
power. The washer plugs into the widget, the widget plugs into the
outlet and it then senses when the washer is running. They will
protect against a burst hose when the machine is not being used.

2 - Floodsafe hoses. These are designed to close if the hose bursts,
ie they allow water at some pre-determined rate, but will close if the
volume exceeds that. Never tried one and one concern I'd have is if
they provide enough water flow when the machine is spinning and
injecting bursts of water at the start of the rinse cycle. At least
that's how my older top-loader works.

3 - Water alarms that you can set by the washer, in the pan, etc. $10
at HD.

On Tue, 9 Feb 2010 03:06:42 -0800 (PST), Deano
wrote:

Hi, I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in case
of leaks. I don't think that a drain is practical, but I'd like
something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in. Space is
approximately 72" by 48';" I have to build the wall out a little as
the roof is slanted inside. Thanks! Deano

Three suggestions:

Treat it like a shower stall with a raised curb, a floor drain, and
waterproof membrane under the finish floor and partway up the wall.
You want this big and deep enough to hold at least a full tubs worth
of water in case a drain hose leaks. Suggestion 3 will deal with a
supply leak.

Install a single lever shutoff for the water supply and turn it off
every time you're not actually using water.

Install a water detector with backup shutoff valve. These have a
sensor that sits on the floor. If it detects water, it shuts off the
water supply. These are commercially available. Cheap insurance. And
if you really can't install a floor drain, this will save your bacon
before the water overflows the containment.

Second the suggestion for Stainless reinforced hoses.

HTH,

Paul F.

Hi, I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in case
of leaks. I don't think that a drain is practical, but I'd like
something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in. Space is
approximately 72" by 48';" I have to build the wall out a little as
the roof is slanted inside. Thanks! Deano


Many of the condos that I do work in have a homemade pan in the laundry
closet installed by the builder. It is nothing more than a wood frame
around the base that has been fiberglassed. There is a floor drain.

I suppose that if you wanted to get fancy you could build a basic shower pan
and put ceramic tile on top with a floor drain. I would not do it without a
drain. You want the water to go somewhere and not lay there.

wrote:
On Feb 9, 8:06 am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On Feb 9, 7:33 am, LouB wrote:

Deano wrote:
Hi, I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in
case of leaks. I don't think that a drain is practical, but I'd
like something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in.
Space is approximately 72" by 48';" I have to build the wall out a
little as the roof is slanted inside. Thanks! Deano

Use steel hoses for the washer and reduce chances for a catastrophe.
Why is a drain not practical since you also need a drain for the
washer?

Agreed. No "pan" solution is going to solve your problem. The washer
holds more than you can possibly catch in a pan that is not connected
to a drain. I talked to a guy that had the solenoid water valve in
the washer fail on a 2nd story washer. The water just keep flowing
until it overflowed the washer tub. It was in a lake house so it ran
for 4 days before anyone found it.

A pan solution won't solve the worse case scenario, but it could
prevent less serious leaks from doing damage. But I agree that
trying to do something with the floor isn't likely to yield additional
protection in line with the work involved, unless it includes a drain.

There are several other options too:

1 - There are automatic electric shut-off valves available. They
only turn on the water when the machine is running, ie drawing
power. The washer plugs into the widget, the widget plugs into the
outlet and it then senses when the washer is running. They will
protect against a burst hose when the machine is not being used.

2 - Floodsafe hoses. These are designed to close if the hose bursts,
ie they allow water at some pre-determined rate, but will close if the
volume exceeds that. Never tried one and one concern I'd have is if
they provide enough water flow when the machine is spinning and
injecting bursts of water at the start of the rinse cycle. At least
that's how my older top-loader works.

3 - Water alarms that you can set by the washer, in the pan, etc. $10
at HD.

Also quarter-turn valves for the water supply. You turn it on to wash, turn
it off when done.

Deano wrote:
Hi, I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in case
of leaks. I don't think that a drain is practical, but I'd like
something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in. Space is
approximately 72" by 48';" I have to build the wall out a little as
the roof is slanted inside. Thanks! Deano

Instead of a washroom, consider a chute or dumbwaiter to the basement (with
access on the ground floor). All the dirty laundry goes to the cellar. Also
a chute would be less work and more fun.

On Feb 9, 5:06*am, Deano wrote:
Hi, * I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. *I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in case
of leaks. *I don't think that a drain is practical, *but I'd like
something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in. *Space is
approximately 72" by 48';" *I have to build the wall out a little as
the roof is slanted inside. *Thanks! * *Deano

You have had good advice, but its a laundry room, tap into the drain
you will use for the machine and add a floor drain under the machines,
thats what a laundry room needs, ive had water from overfilled tubs,
repairs and carelessness, it goes down a drain.

On Feb 9, 12:07*pm, ransley wrote:
On Feb 9, 5:06*am, Deano wrote:

Hi, * I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. *I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in case
of leaks. *I don't think that a drain is practical, *but I'd like
something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in. *Space is
approximately 72" by 48';" *I have to build the wall out a little as
the roof is slanted inside. *Thanks! * *Deano

You have had good advice, but its a laundry room, tap into the drain
you will use for the machine and add a floor drain under the machines,
thats what a laundry room needs, ive had water from overfilled tubs,
repairs and carelessness, it goes down a drain.

Sometimes it's difficult to tap into the drain in this situation.
Drains need to have a trap in them to prevent gas from getting back
into the house. Often washer drains are installed with that trap in
the wall behind the washer. The floor drain needs to connect above
the trap. So the trap would have to be lower than the floor. That
may or may not be difficult to do. A safety drain can't have it's own
trap because it would dry out. So a lot depends on what the options
for plumbing the new location are.

If it's possible to get a floor drain connected above the trap that
would be fine. Otherwise a straight pipe going out an exterior wall
will do as well.

jamesgangnc wrote:
On Feb 9, 12:07 pm, ransley wrote:
On Feb 9, 5:06 am, Deano wrote:

Hi, I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in case
of leaks. I don't think that a drain is practical, but I'd like
something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in. Space is
approximately 72" by 48';" I have to build the wall out a little as
the roof is slanted inside. Thanks! Deano
You have had good advice, but its a laundry room, tap into the drain
you will use for the machine and add a floor drain under the machines,
thats what a laundry room needs, ive had water from overfilled tubs,
repairs and carelessness, it goes down a drain.

Sometimes it's difficult to tap into the drain in this situation.
Drains need to have a trap in them to prevent gas from getting back
into the house. Often washer drains are installed with that trap in
the wall behind the washer. The floor drain needs to connect above
the trap. So the trap would have to be lower than the floor. That
may or may not be difficult to do. A safety drain can't have it's own
trap because it would dry out. So a lot depends on what the options
for plumbing the new location are.

If it's possible to get a floor drain connected above the trap that
would be fine. Otherwise a straight pipe going out an exterior wall
will do as well.

That makes sense because the drain is for emergency use only.

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:56:00 -0500, LouB wrote:

jamesgangnc wrote:
On Feb 9, 12:07 pm, ransley wrote:
On Feb 9, 5:06 am, Deano wrote:

Hi, I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in case
of leaks. I don't think that a drain is practical, but I'd like
something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in. Space is
approximately 72" by 48';" I have to build the wall out a little as
the roof is slanted inside. Thanks! Deano
You have had good advice, but its a laundry room, tap into the drain
you will use for the machine and add a floor drain under the machines,
thats what a laundry room needs, ive had water from overfilled tubs,
repairs and carelessness, it goes down a drain.

Sometimes it's difficult to tap into the drain in this situation.
Drains need to have a trap in them to prevent gas from getting back
into the house. Often washer drains are installed with that trap in
the wall behind the washer. The floor drain needs to connect above
the trap. So the trap would have to be lower than the floor. That
may or may not be difficult to do. A safety drain can't have it's own
trap because it would dry out. So a lot depends on what the options
for plumbing the new location are.

If it's possible to get a floor drain connected above the trap that
would be fine. Otherwise a straight pipe going out an exterior wall
will do as well.

That makes sense because the drain is for emergency use only.

In my last house, the laundry closet was on the 2nd floor hallway. The
pan was made of galv. sheet metal ( 2 inches height) and a drain. The
drain was piped to an outside wall with 3/4 PVC. Outside the wall
there was a elbow - directing water downward.

My HVAC furnace in the attic has a similar design.

Agree on having the pan drain ouside. Here it is code for the secondary
pans on a/c coils to not only drain outside, but be where they are
easily visible, so the homeowner will be alerted to a problem early
enough to prevent damage if the pan overflows. The drains often come out
over the door, so they will not only see it, but not be tempted to
postpone repairs. Larry

On Feb 9, 6:06*am, Deano wrote:
Hi, * I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. *I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in case
of leaks. *I don't think that a drain is practical, *but I'd like
something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in. *Space is
approximately 72" by 48';" *I have to build the wall out a little as
the roof is slanted inside. *Thanks! * *Deano

When I was in Europe I saw laundry closets lined with the vinyl
flooring. The material was folded up the wall for a few inches and the
corners sealed with vinyl "caulk" that formed what appeared to be a
weld. I even saw showers built like this. I haven't seen a material
like this in the states. I know nothing about this material but it
seemed ample for the job at hand.

Jimmie

About two years ago, I was in a restaurant, which had AC,
and a drip coming from over a window. I mentioned that, and
the reason. The old guy say "Oh, it does that every time we
use the AC" and didn't seem at all interested.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Lp1331 1p1331" wrote in message
...
Agree on having the pan drain ouside. Here it is code for
the secondary
pans on a/c coils to not only drain outside, but be where
they are
easily visible, so the homeowner will be alerted to a
problem early
enough to prevent damage if the pan overflows. The drains
often come out
over the door, so they will not only see it, but not be
tempted to
postpone repairs. Larry

Deano wrote:
Hi, I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in case
of leaks. I don't think that a drain is practical, but I'd like
something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in. Space is
approximately 72" by 48';" I have to build the wall out a little as
the roof is slanted inside. Thanks! Deano

They sell plastic pans with sensors and pumps (similar to a/c
condensate/humidifer pumps), that lift any leaked water up into the
drain standpipe the washer uses. They also sell auto-shutoffs for the
supply valves, in case a hose breaks. Both recommended for second floor
laundries. TOH website probably has a link to brand names- they have
featured them on their shows multiple times.

Other thought- it does freeze in Cincy in winter, sometimes. Make sure
the eave you are using, and the route the supply lines and drain use,
are not subject to icing. I would not tightly enclose the washer/drier-
makes service a major PITA. You need some place to fold and put clothes
on hangers. A hanging bar and big table within 6-8 feet would make
laundry duty a lot easier. I have seen living-area laundries combined
with playrooms and sewing rooms and such, or even a den/guest room.

--
aem sends...

Oren wrote:
On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:56:00 -0500, LouB wrote:

jamesgangnc wrote:
On Feb 9, 12:07 pm, ransley wrote:
On Feb 9, 5:06 am, Deano wrote:

Hi, I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in case
of leaks. I don't think that a drain is practical, but I'd like
something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in. Space is
approximately 72" by 48';" I have to build the wall out a little as
the roof is slanted inside. Thanks! Deano
You have had good advice, but its a laundry room, tap into the drain
you will use for the machine and add a floor drain under the machines,
thats what a laundry room needs, ive had water from overfilled tubs,
repairs and carelessness, it goes down a drain.
Sometimes it's difficult to tap into the drain in this situation.
Drains need to have a trap in them to prevent gas from getting back
into the house. Often washer drains are installed with that trap in
the wall behind the washer. The floor drain needs to connect above
the trap. So the trap would have to be lower than the floor. That
may or may not be difficult to do. A safety drain can't have it's own
trap because it would dry out. So a lot depends on what the options
for plumbing the new location are.

If it's possible to get a floor drain connected above the trap that
would be fine. Otherwise a straight pipe going out an exterior wall
will do as well.
That makes sense because the drain is for emergency use only.

In my last house, the laundry closet was on the 2nd floor hallway. The
pan was made of galv. sheet metal ( 2 inches height) and a drain. The
drain was piped to an outside wall with 3/4 PVC. Outside the wall
there was a elbow - directing water downward.


I have a similar pan which is plumbed to the basement near a floor drain
- no trap. In this climate I wouldn't want it plumbed outside.

Water supply is ball valves which we always turn off when the washer is
not being used.

On Feb 9, 9:01*pm, bud-- wrote:
Oren wrote:
On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 12:56:00 -0500, LouB wrote:

jamesgangnc wrote:
On Feb 9, 12:07 pm, ransley wrote:
On Feb 9, 5:06 am, Deano wrote:

Hi, * I have purchased an 1890 vintage house in Cincinnati and would
like to put in a "laundry closet" in an eave on the second floor. *I
could use some suggestions about building a good floor liner in case
of leaks. *I don't think that a drain is practical, *but I'd like
something larger than a rubber pan that the washer sits in. *Space is
approximately 72" by 48';" *I have to build the wall out a little as
the roof is slanted inside. *Thanks! * *Deano
You have had good advice, but its a laundry room, tap into the drain
you will use for the machine and add a floor drain under the machines,
thats what a laundry room needs, ive had water from overfilled tubs,
repairs and carelessness, it goes down a drain.
Sometimes it's difficult to tap into the drain in this situation.
Drains need to have a trap in them to prevent gas from getting back
into the house. *Often washer drains are installed with that trap in
the wall behind the washer. *The floor drain needs to connect above
the trap. *So the trap would have to be lower than the floor. * That
may or may not be difficult to do. *A safety drain can't have it's own
trap because it would dry out. *So a lot depends on what the options
for plumbing *the new location are.

If it's possible to get a floor drain connected above the trap that
would be fine. *Otherwise a straight pipe going out an exterior wall
will do as well.
That makes sense because the drain is for emergency use only.

In my last house, the laundry closet was on the 2nd floor hallway. The
pan was made of galv. sheet metal ( 2 inches height) and a drain. The
drain was piped to an outside wall with 3/4 PVC. Outside the wall
there was a elbow - directing water downward.

I have a similar pan which is plumbed to the basement near a floor drain
- no trap. *In this climate I wouldn't want it plumbed outside.

Water supply is ball valves which we always turn off when the washer is
not being used.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hey Guys, great advice! I imagine I would have to build up the
floor to install a drain...which would make the washer quite a bit
higher...unless we get a front loader. I like the "drain outside"
idea on the surface but it does freeze here (let's not even bring that
up at the moment...I'm so sick of Winter by February!). I would be
concerned about a fiberglass "liner" breaking under a heavy, vibrating
appliance. The metal lines and shut off "lever" type valve are a
must. I suppose I could make a liner out of concrete or even backer
board on the floor and sides with cement connecting the pieces and
covered with some kind of thinset (?) You've convinced me about the
drain .... just have to work out the specifics. We are running lines
from a downstairs bathroom and a 2" copper vent that is behind the
wall. Thanks again and all input will be appreciated. Deano in Cincy

Deano wrote:

Hey Guys, great advice! I imagine I would have to build up the
floor to install a drain...which would make the washer quite a bit
higher...unless we get a front loader. I like the "drain outside"
idea on the surface but it does freeze here (let's not even bring that
up at the moment...I'm so sick of Winter by February!).

And the fact that it sometimes freezes is of importance exactly how?

HeyBub wrote:
Deano wrote:
Hey Guys, great advice! I imagine I would have to build up the
floor to install a drain...which would make the washer quite a bit
higher...unless we get a front loader. I like the "drain outside"
idea on the surface but it does freeze here (let's not even bring that
up at the moment...I'm so sick of Winter by February!).

And the fact that it sometimes freezes is of importance exactly how?


Well, if nothing else, it is a air leak to the outside. An ambitious bug
could even enter that way, unless you screened the end of it.

--
aem sends...

ransley wrote:

tap into the drain
you will use for the machine and add a floor drain under the machines,
thats what a laundry room needs,

Do floor drains use a trap? If they do, how do you keep the trap
full of water?
--
I don't understand why they make gourmet cat foods. I have
known many cats in my life and none of them were gourmets.
They were all gourmands!

I have heard of people pouring a small amount of oil into the drain--
not sure if it was cooking oil or mineral (motor) oil, or if it would
matter which. This would be especially for drains that are not that
easily accessable. Otherwise, if the drain is easy to get to, and gets
no normal use, just pour some water into it periodically. Water
evaporates- things like that are just part of maintainance.