My office is in the 12x24 section of my 36x24 shop. All 36x24 is
insulated - walls and ceilings. The office side has 2 man doors - one
to the outside and the other to the shop. The shop-side has a couple
of garage doors.

The 12x24 has a 220v electric heater.

I have plenty of hardwood on the property to heat - hedge, locust,
oak.

#1 priority is to heat the office, Mon - Friday 10 hours a day
#2 is to heat the shop as needed
#3 is to heat in the event we lose power to the house and need to live
in the office/shop for a few days.

Any thoughts on a low cost wood burning stove? Hedge burns hot --
I've heard stories of it turning stoves red.

I have a simple, low-slope, gabel roof, in case that influences the
chimney pipe.

On Oct 26, 4:20*pm, coloradotrout wrote:
My office is in the 12x24 section of my 36x24 shop. *All 36x24 is
insulated - walls and ceilings. *The office side has 2 man doors - one
to the outside and the other to the shop. *The shop-side has a couple
of garage doors.

The 12x24 has a 220v electric heater.

I have plenty of hardwood on the property to heat - hedge, locust,
oak.

#1 priority is to heat the office, Mon - Friday 10 hours a day
#2 is to heat the shop as needed
#3 is to heat in the event we lose power to the house and need to live
in the office/shop for a few days.

Any thoughts on a low cost wood burning stove? * Hedge burns hot --
I've heard stories of it turning stoves red.

I have a simple, low-slope, gabel roof, in case that influences the
chimney pipe.

I have one in my 40' X 60' shop, and it will make it plenty
comfortable given an hour or so to get up to speed. I have no
partitions, and there are places you can see daylight where the spot
between the roof and wall has never been completed. I picked mine up
at a swap meet, it was shop built out of boiler plate & upholstered
internally with fire brick. .Iit took 4 guys to load it into my
pickup, it must weigh around 200 lbs I unloaded it with a forklift.
One thing I did to improve heat was; to run the stove pipe up out of
the way, then run it horizontal about 10' then out through the wall.
If you take that approach, learn from my errors, and use a T to
transition back to vertical, that way you can replace a cheap easy to
replace cap on the bottom when it rusts rather than an elbow that is a
pain to replace. I even drilled a small hole in the cap to let it
drain, & it has lasted several years.
Sometimes I put a squirrel cage fan behind it, & that really helps
spread the heat around, a box fan would likely work, even a well
placed ceiling fan.
It isn't all wine and roses, there is wood to cut and haul, then ashes
to haul and spread,

"coloradotrout" wrote in message

Any thoughts on a low cost wood burning stove? Hedge burns hot --
I've heard stories of it turning stoves red.

I have a simple, low-slope, gabel roof, in case that influences the
chimney pipe.

I've not kept up with brands of stoves but most any of the popular brands
should be reasonably efficient. I'd stick with cast iron over sheet metal.
Yes, you can get low cost stoves, but they are not going to work as well as
the better stoves. Less efficiency means shorter burns, more wood to haul,
less heat on the really cold days. You may be able to get a used stove at
reasonable price too.

As for hedge burning hot and turning stoves red, that would be poor quality
stoves or careless use. Any wood can make a stove glow red if not properly
controlled. A thermostatic air damper will easily prevent it.

I've never had a wood stove, but been to peoples houses who
have. Whatever you do, please invest in a couple battery
fans. Blow the heat off the ceiling. Or, you may over heat
the room and wish to blow some heat into the other room.

You get get 12 volt fans at the RV section or auto parts
section of most marts. Run it off a car battery, or jumper
pack while the power is out. The couple times I've used
backup heat, I didn't realize how essential that furnace fan
is. The floor was too cold. One night, froze butt in bed,
while the ceiling was warm. Since then, I've got a couple
battery fans.

Check with the local stove sellers. And the building
inspector. They may have requirements for shielding,
distances to combustibles, etc.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"coloradotrout" wrote in message
...
My office is in the 12x24 section of my 36x24 shop. All
36x24 is
insulated - walls and ceilings. The office side has 2 man
doors - one
to the outside and the other to the shop. The shop-side has
a couple
of garage doors.

The 12x24 has a 220v electric heater.

I have plenty of hardwood on the property to heat - hedge,
locust,
oak.

#1 priority is to heat the office, Mon - Friday 10 hours a
day
#2 is to heat the shop as needed
#3 is to heat in the event we lose power to the house and
need to live
in the office/shop for a few days.

Any thoughts on a low cost wood burning stove? Hedge burns
hot --
I've heard stories of it turning stoves red.

I have a simple, low-slope, gabel roof, in case that
influences the
chimney pipe.

Now, that sounds like true wisdom. Thanks for taking the
time to write.

I knew one fellow who made up an oil drip. He set up a
bucket of oil on a high shelf, mixed with kerosene. Ran it
to a valve, and dripped into the fire box. He could run all
day on a couple piece of wood to get it going, and then burn
oil the rest of the day. A couple other folks had furnaces
"run away" and give them problems, so he quit.

As I remember, his pole barn was big enough to park six cars
in (though he didn't have that many, but it gives you a size
reference). In the cold winter, it was warm within a foot or
two of the stove. Carpet would have helped a lot, or wood
floor. But, he used it as a repair shop for cars, and so
that wasn't an option.

Another friend used to soak his wood in used motor oil, and
that would burn a bit longer. And a bit hotter. He actually
had an old oil furnace, and took the oil burner off. He'd
stoke the burner box with wood, and that would keep the
house warm. The next people put the oil burner back on. And
the people after that, PVC pipes were seen coming out of the
wall, so they must have put in a 90 percenter furnace.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Eric in North TX" wrote in message
...

I have one in my 40' X 60' shop, and it will make it plenty
comfortable given an hour or so to get up to speed. I have
no
partitions, and there are places you can see daylight where
the spot
between the roof and wall has never been completed. I picked
mine up
at a swap meet, it was shop built out of boiler plate &
upholstered
internally with fire brick. .Iit took 4 guys to load it into
my
pickup, it must weigh around 200 lbs I unloaded it with a
forklift.
One thing I did to improve heat was; to run the stove pipe
up out of
the way, then run it horizontal about 10' then out through
the wall.
If you take that approach, learn from my errors, and use a T
to
transition back to vertical, that way you can replace a
cheap easy to
replace cap on the bottom when it rusts rather than an elbow
that is a
pain to replace. I even drilled a small hole in the cap to
let it
drain, & it has lasted several years.
Sometimes I put a squirrel cage fan behind it, & that really
helps
spread the heat around, a box fan would likely work, even a
well
placed ceiling fan.
It isn't all wine and roses, there is wood to cut and haul,
then ashes
to haul and spread,

I've heard those "airtight" stoves are good. Allows for a
slow burn, and you're feeding the stove less often. People
with "catalytic converter" tell me they break easily, and
gosh awful expensive to replace. I'd avoid the catalytic if
possible. I do believe Ed is right, cast iron will be more
effective than sheet metal. Maybe more pricey, too.

Some stoves have a water heater loop. If you're a handyman,
you may be able to use the stove to heat a tank of water,
and then use the hot water to heat with a pump and
radiators. Water stores a lot of heat. The advantage is you
could heat the tank during the day, and then the hot water
would release heat over night, so you're not getting up at 2
AM to pee and feed the stove. Just quick pee, and go back to
bed.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

I've not kept up with brands of stoves but most any of the
popular brands
should be reasonably efficient. I'd stick with cast iron
over sheet metal.
Yes, you can get low cost stoves, but they are not going to
work as well as
the better stoves. Less efficiency means shorter burns, more
wood to haul,
less heat on the really cold days. You may be able to get a
used stove at
reasonable price too.

As for hedge burning hot and turning stoves red, that would
be poor quality
stoves or careless use. Any wood can make a stove glow red
if not properly
controlled. A thermostatic air damper will easily prevent
it.

The thing with woodstoves is you need to add them to your insurance policy
to be covered for fire...

Then the insurance company will want to come out and inspect the
installation. They will want to see a building permit which shows the
installation of the stove/chimney was inspected and passed. They will want
to take measurements from stove to walls and hearth. Will want to see the
label on the back of the stove. And will want to know brand/model.
(Measurements differ depending on specific model of woodstove.)

The building inspector (at least in my area) will want to see the
manufacturer's installation instructions as to distances the stove can be
from the wall, hearth measurements in instructions (if you have a wood
floor), and an EPA label on the back of the woodstove.

So if you want to be covered by insurance, this pretty much requires you to
buy a new woodstove (would have EPA label - old don't), and you would need
to install everything to the woodstove and chimney manufacturer's
specifications (stainless steel double wall chimney usually). And do it
right so it will pass inspection.

Doing all this almost guarantees there will never be a fire caused by the
woodstove, thus the insurance company is happy to add it to your policy!

Also different model woodstoves need different size chimney pipe! So get the
woodstove first. And the distance from the wall will vary depending on model
of woodstove, so again get woodstove first, then determine where the chimney
will go based on its distance from the wall.

And the thing with woodstoves is you need to add additional wood while a
fire is still burning. If you get a small woodstove, it only has space for
the wood which is burning and no space to add additional wood. If you get a
large stove, it will have additional space to add more wood with a fire
burning.

And with a large stove, you can build a small fire or a large fire. With a
small stove, only a small fire.

With a large woodstove, you can place many different sizes of wood inside up
to around 22 inches long! This makes it easier when cutting wood. You don't
need to be so picky that each piece is short.

Basically I'm quite glad I bought the largest woodstove they had in the
store. Like this...
http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/30-nc.html

This is one brand of stainless steel chimney...
http://www.selkirkcorp.com/Metalbest...ct.aspx?id=210

"Bill" wrote in message
...
The thing with woodstoves is you need to add them to your insurance policy
to be covered for fire...

Then the insurance company will want to come out and inspect the
installation. They will want to see a building permit which shows the
installation of the stove/chimney was inspected and passed. They will want
to take measurements from stove to walls and hearth. Will want to see the
label on the back of the stove. And will want to know brand/model.
(Measurements differ depending on specific model of woodstove.)

The building inspector (at least in my area) will want to see the
manufacturer's installation instructions as to distances the stove can be
from the wall, hearth measurements in instructions (if you have a wood
floor), and an EPA label on the back of the woodstove.

So if you want to be covered by insurance, this pretty much requires you
to buy a new woodstove (would have EPA label - old don't), and you would
need to install everything to the woodstove and chimney manufacturer's
specifications (stainless steel double wall chimney usually). And do it
right so it will pass inspection.

Doing all this almost guarantees there will never be a fire caused by the
woodstove, thus the insurance company is happy to add it to your policy!

Also different model woodstoves need different size chimney pipe! So get
the woodstove first. And the distance from the wall will vary depending on
model of woodstove, so again get woodstove first, then determine where the
chimney will go based on its distance from the wall.

And the thing with woodstoves is you need to add additional wood while a
fire is still burning. If you get a small woodstove, it only has space for
the wood which is burning and no space to add additional wood. If you get
a large stove, it will have additional space to add more wood with a fire
burning.

And with a large stove, you can build a small fire or a large fire. With a
small stove, only a small fire.

With a large woodstove, you can place many different sizes of wood inside
up to around 22 inches long! This makes it easier when cutting wood. You
don't need to be so picky that each piece is short.

Basically I'm quite glad I bought the largest woodstove they had in the
store. Like this...
http://www.englandsstoveworks.com/30-nc.html

This is one brand of stainless steel chimney...
http://www.selkirkcorp.com/Metalbest...ct.aspx?id=210

Bull****. I added a large wood burning stove to my house. I called my
agent, and he informed me that it would be $22 additional on my yearly
insurance. No measuring, no permits, nothing. Maybe Bill lives in a place
that requires all this, but I don't, and you may not. Do not take it as
gospel, but rather call your own agent and find out what it is for YOU.

And try to match the stove to the volume you want to heat. And to the type
of room. Yes, a large stove will heat a drafty shop that has a lot of air
leaks. But it will be too much for a tightly sealed office or shop. One
size does not fit all, as Bill suggests.

What is an "almost" guarantee? I guess that would lead to disclaimers,
riders, deductibles, and exceptions when it comes to getting paid for a
loss.

Steve

On Oct 26, 4:20*pm, coloradotrout wrote:
My office is in the 12x24 section of my 36x24 shop. *All 36x24 is
insulated - walls and ceilings. *The office side has 2 man doors - one
to the outside and the other to the shop. *The shop-side has a couple
of garage doors.

The 12x24 has a 220v electric heater.

I have plenty of hardwood on the property to heat - hedge, locust,
oak.

#1 priority is to heat the office, Mon - Friday 10 hours a day
#2 is to heat the shop as needed
#3 is to heat in the event we lose power to the house and need to live
in the office/shop for a few days.

Any thoughts on a low cost wood burning stove? * Hedge burns hot --
I've heard stories of it turning stoves red.

I have a simple, low-slope, gabel roof, in case that influences the
chimney pipe.

It's been a while since I've looked, but they used to sell kits for
turning a 55 gallon drum into a wood stove. Much lower cost than a
new stove. Is it the highest quality wood stove you can buy? Is it a
beautiful addition to your home? No - but might be a good way to test
the concept. You can line with firebrick to extend the life. The
large surface area of the drum actually does help with heat output and
efficiency. Put together right, it can be fairly airtight too. But,
can't say I have actually done it. -- H

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:18:04 -0700, Bill wrote:

The thing with woodstoves is you need to add them to your insurance policy
to be covered for fire...

Then the insurance company will want to come out and inspect the
installation. They will want to see a building permit which shows the
installation of the stove/chimney was inspected and passed.

We had that with out place when we bought it, only with a furnace rather
than stove - insurance places wouldn't touch it unless it was all UL
approved and the system inspected up to the eyeballs.

The stove in question was all 1/4" plate, totally home made. Big split
along one seam - probably been like that for years. Fun stuff :-)

I'm not sure what EPA approval is - is that the same as UL approval and
the terminology's just changed? Or does UL approval apply to furnaces
and EPA approval to stoves? UL was the thing all the insurance companies
up here were worried about.

With the wood furnace gone we're on propane and electric baseboard now,
but I'd quite like to get a wood furnace back in there too sometime. Might
go with an external one, though, which would also free up the half of the
basement that's currently full of wood (and I could brick off the wood
chute)

cheers

Jules

Bill wrote:

And with a large stove, you can build a small fire or a large fire. With a
small stove, only a small fire.

But if you build a small fire in a large stove too often, your flu
pipe/chimney will not run hot enough and will build up creosote much
much faster creating a dangerous situation. A chimney fire just waiting
to happen.

Seems a straight vertical flu pipe would be best?

Straight up from the stove through the roof? vs a pair of 90 deg.
transitions (out wall, then back up).

"Heathcliff" wrote in message
...
On Oct 26, 4:20 pm, coloradotrout wrote:
My office is in the 12x24 section of my 36x24 shop. All 36x24 is
insulated - walls and ceilings. The office side has 2 man doors - one
to the outside and the other to the shop. The shop-side has a couple
of garage doors.

The 12x24 has a 220v electric heater.

I have plenty of hardwood on the property to heat - hedge, locust,
oak.

#1 priority is to heat the office, Mon - Friday 10 hours a day
#2 is to heat the shop as needed
#3 is to heat in the event we lose power to the house and need to live
in the office/shop for a few days.

Any thoughts on a low cost wood burning stove? Hedge burns hot --
I've heard stories of it turning stoves red.

I have a simple, low-slope, gabel roof, in case that influences the
chimney pipe.

http://cylinderstoves.com/

"Jules" wrote in message
news
I'm not sure what EPA approval is - is that the same as UL approval and
the terminology's just changed? Or does UL approval apply to furnaces
and EPA approval to stoves? UL was the thing all the insurance companies
up here were worried about.

UL approval addresses chiefly safe burning (when
a stove is installed in compliance with manufacturer's
instructions and local fire safety codes these are
the main concerns of the building permits office.
EPA approval concerns the efficient consumption
of fuel and production of heat, carbon in smoke, etc.
They are quite different (although city-based insurance
agents seldom understand this.)

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

"Tony" wrote in message
...

But if you build a small fire in a large stove too often, your flu
pipe/chimney will not run hot enough and will build up creosote much
much faster creating a dangerous situation. A chimney fire just waiting
to happen.

But in modern (double-wall) steel chimneys chimney fires are seldom
dangerous. (I have known firemen recommend them as the best way
to remove creosote from a chimney.) Points of danger a
1 -- obsolete chimneys that do not meet current safety codes;
2 -- the release from the chimney-top of burning material that
may fall onto the roof, adjacent buildings, dry treetops etc.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On Oct 27, 1:13*pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"Heathcliff" wrote in message

...
On Oct 26, 4:20 pm, coloradotrout wrote:



My office is in the 12x24 section of my 36x24 shop. All 36x24 is
insulated - walls and ceilings. The office side has 2 man doors - one
to the outside and the other to the shop. The shop-side has a couple
of garage doors.

The 12x24 has a 220v electric heater.

I have plenty of hardwood on the property to heat - hedge, locust,
oak.

#1 priority is to heat the office, Mon - Friday 10 hours a day
#2 is to heat the shop as needed
#3 is to heat in the event we lose power to the house and need to live
in the office/shop for a few days.

Any thoughts on a low cost wood burning stove? Hedge burns hot --
I've heard stories of it turning stoves red.

I have a simple, low-slope, gabel roof, in case that influences the
chimney pipe.

http://cylinderstoves.com/

Nope, that's not it. I am talking about a kit where you get the door,
legs, and chimney stub, and attach them yourself to your own drum.
For example, (no endorsement as to quality or price, just here's a
website with a picture that shows what I mean):
http://www.northlineexpress.com/item...&kw=5VZ-BK150E

Heathcliff wrote:
On Oct 27, 1:13 pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"Heathcliff" wrote in message

...
On Oct 26, 4:20 pm, coloradotrout wrote:



My office is in the 12x24 section of my 36x24 shop. All 36x24 is
insulated - walls and ceilings. The office side has 2 man doors -
one to the outside and the other to the shop. The shop-side has a
couple of garage doors.

The 12x24 has a 220v electric heater.

I have plenty of hardwood on the property to heat - hedge, locust,
oak.

#1 priority is to heat the office, Mon - Friday 10 hours a day
#2 is to heat the shop as needed
#3 is to heat in the event we lose power to the house and need to
live in the office/shop for a few days.

Any thoughts on a low cost wood burning stove? Hedge burns hot --
I've heard stories of it turning stoves red.

I have a simple, low-slope, gabel roof, in case that influences the
chimney pipe.

http://cylinderstoves.com/

Nope, that's not it. I am talking about a kit where you get the door,
legs, and chimney stub, and attach them yourself to your own drum.
For example, (no endorsement as to quality or price, just here's a
website with a picture that shows what I mean):
http://www.northlineexpress.com/item...&kw=5VZ-BK150E

Unfortunately, they are probably not EPA certified, and thus may be illegal to
install.

"Bill" wrote in message
Then the insurance company will want to come out and inspect the
installation. They will want to see a building permit which shows the
installation of the stove/chimney was inspected and passed. They will want
to take measurements from stove to walls and hearth. Will want to see the
label on the back of the stove. And will want to know brand/model.
(Measurements differ depending on specific model of woodstove.)

The building inspector (at least in my area) will want to see the
manufacturer's installation instructions as to distances the stove can be
from the wall, hearth measurements in instructions (if you have a wood
floor), and an EPA label on the back of the woodstove.

No one has ever come out to check my stove or ask for a permit as they are
not required here.

In article , cayoung61
(Stormin Mormon) says...

I've heard those "airtight" stoves are good. Allows for a
slow burn, and you're feeding the stove less often.

Airtight stoves haven't been sold in the USA in over 30 years. All
current stoves have to meet EPA pollution specs, which means either a
recombustion chamber or catalytic converter.

People
with "catalytic converter" tell me they break easily, and
gosh awful expensive to replace. I'd avoid the catalytic if
possible.

It's easy to poison a catalytic converter by burning junk in the stove.
One cup of used motor oil and you have an expensive piece of inert
platinum. Anything that contains metals is particularly poisonous.

I do believe Ed is right, cast iron will be more
effective than sheet metal. Maybe more pricey, too.

Some stoves have a water heater loop. If you're a handyman,
you may be able to use the stove to heat a tank of water,
and then use the hot water to heat with a pump and
radiators. Water stores a lot of heat. The advantage is you
could heat the tank during the day, and then the hot water
would release heat over night, so you're not getting up at 2
AM to pee and feed the stove. Just quick pee, and go back to
bed.

A water coil on a wood stove makes a great backup to a solar hot water
system. In hot weather, the sun makes more hot water than you can use.
In the winter, the wood stove makes more hot water than you can use.
All you need is some thermostats to turn on the right pump.

If you want a stove that will hold a fire all night, buy one with a
firebox big enough to hold a couple 10" rounds.

--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.

How valuable is the OP TIME???

by the time you harvest the wood, split the wood, stack the wood far
enough away so you dont attract termites, haull the wood inside, burn
the wood, haul out the ashes and maintain the stove

well your wood is on site which helps a lot.

but it takes lots of time to do all that work.

what can you sell a hour of shop time for?


free firewood sounds wonderful but its not really free

dont forget to notify your homeowners insurance company, your rates
will likely go up

but if you dont notify them, and have a fire, they may disown you
covering nothing......

isnt free firewood wonderful, sorry for dumping water on your plans

On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 05:12:10 -0700, wrote:

How valuable is the OP TIME???

by the time you harvest the wood, split the wood, stack the wood far
enough away so you dont attract termites, haull the wood inside, burn
the wood, haul out the ashes and maintain the stove

Hmm, 8 cords will last about a season here and is a weekend of
harvesting / splitting / stacking... not too bad.

Given the price of electric or propane heat I think it makes sense -
providing you have a sustainable source of wood (we've only got a couple
of acres of trees on our property, so would need to go further afield to
make up a full season's load)

cheers

Jules

" wrote:

How valuable is the OP TIME???

by the time you harvest the wood, split the wood, stack the wood far
enough away so you dont attract termites, haull the wood inside, burn
the wood, haul out the ashes and maintain the stove
add;
Cleaning up the dirt that gets tracked in, the ash that escapes, the
smoke that discolors and the customers who can't come to your office
because they don't like the smell.

The OP didn't say what the business was. If it is a white color
business, forget the stove. If it is some sort of business where
the stove adds the right ambiance- then maybe it is worth it.


well your wood is on site which helps a lot.

but it takes lots of time to do all that work.

what can you sell a hour of shop time for?

That's certainly a question that should be asked.


Jim

Don Phillipson wrote:
"Tony" wrote in message
...

But if you build a small fire in a large stove too often, your flu
pipe/chimney will not run hot enough and will build up creosote much
much faster creating a dangerous situation. A chimney fire just waiting
to happen.

But in modern (double-wall) steel chimneys chimney fires are seldom
dangerous. (I have known firemen recommend them as the best way
to remove creosote from a chimney.) Points of danger a
1 -- obsolete chimneys that do not meet current safety codes;
2 -- the release from the chimney-top of burning material that
may fall onto the roof, adjacent buildings, dry treetops etc.

Will this stove have double wall stove pipe?

As far as purposely creating a chimney fire, yes I did it all the time
up in PA. Every few days to a week, after it was good and hot I'd open
the door and the flames went up the flue and the very thin layer of
creosote was burnt off. After 2 years I had someone out to clean it and
he said it's about as clean as it will ever get. Oh, and I even burnt a
lot of pine wood scraps. Run them hot and they stay clean.

Heathcliff wrote:
On Oct 26, 4:20 pm, coloradotrout wrote:
My office is in the 12x24 section of my 36x24 shop. All 36x24 is
insulated - walls and ceilings. The office side has 2 man doors - one
to the outside and the other to the shop. The shop-side has a couple
of garage doors.

The 12x24 has a 220v electric heater.

I have plenty of hardwood on the property to heat - hedge, locust,
oak.

#1 priority is to heat the office, Mon - Friday 10 hours a day
#2 is to heat the shop as needed
#3 is to heat in the event we lose power to the house and need to live
in the office/shop for a few days.

Any thoughts on a low cost wood burning stove? Hedge burns hot --
I've heard stories of it turning stoves red.

I have a simple, low-slope, gabel roof, in case that influences the
chimney pipe.

It's been a while since I've looked, but they used to sell kits for
turning a 55 gallon drum into a wood stove. Much lower cost than a
new stove. Is it the highest quality wood stove you can buy? Is it a
beautiful addition to your home? No - but might be a good way to test
the concept. You can line with firebrick to extend the life. The
large surface area of the drum actually does help with heat output and
efficiency. Put together right, it can be fairly airtight too. But,
can't say I have actually done it. -- H

They still sell the kits, I think at Tractor Supply. I had a friend
with one out in a room off the garage where we hung out. They are
excellent for fast heat! And I was surprised at how long he used it
with the same 55 gallon drum. I wanted to put one in my garage for that
reason, it was FAST! I could do it, even legally, but if my garage
burnt down my insurance wouldn't pay.

I'm not sure what EPA approval is...


My newer woodstove is designed to have a "secondary burn". This reduces the
smoke. So less smoke emissions.

Basically my neighbor has an old fashioned fireplace and there is a very
visible cloud of smoke constantly coming out of his chimney. With my EPA
certified woodstove going full blast, sometimes you can't see any smoke
coming out or very little.

EPA is Environmental Protection Agency.

On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:22:29 -0700, Bill wrote:


I'm not sure what EPA approval is...

EPA is Environmental Protection Agency.

Yes, just wasn't sure what the difference was between that and UL
approval, which is what all the insurance companies around here seem to be
worried about... (none of them ever mentioned any EPA approval requirement
to us, anyway*)

Given what Don said, it seems like they're concerned with it being safe,
but they don't give a hoot about how 'green' it is - which I suppose as
far as getting insurance goes is the way it should be, as insurance
companies aren't there to police environmental issues...

* in a furnace rather than stove context, however. Maybe that's the key
thing.

cheers

Jules

Jules wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:22:29 -0700, Bill wrote:


I'm not sure what EPA approval is...

EPA is Environmental Protection Agency.

Yes, just wasn't sure what the difference was between that and UL
approval, which is what all the insurance companies around here seem
to be worried about... (none of them ever mentioned any EPA approval
requirement to us, anyway*)

Given what Don said, it seems like they're concerned with it being
safe, but they don't give a hoot about how 'green' it is - which I
suppose as far as getting insurance goes is the way it should be, as
insurance companies aren't there to police environmental issues...

* in a furnace rather than stove context, however. Maybe that's the
key thing.

cheers

Jules

UL basically certifies that electrical things will FAIL safely, and could
only underwrite the electrics of a stove. For a wood stove that would mean
the blowers or whatever if they're present. I think someone is confusing the
EPA certification with UL.

Jules wrote:
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:22:29 -0700, Bill wrote:

I'm not sure what EPA approval is...

EPA is Environmental Protection Agency.

Yes, just wasn't sure what the difference was between that and UL
approval, which is what all the insurance companies around here seem to be
worried about... (none of them ever mentioned any EPA approval requirement
to us, anyway*)

Given what Don said, it seems like they're concerned with it being safe,
but they don't give a hoot about how 'green' it is - which I suppose as
far as getting insurance goes is the way it should be, as insurance
companies aren't there to police environmental issues...

The EPA is part of the US government, mostly curbing pollution. UL,
"Underighters Laboratories" is a private business that tests and
approves mostly electrical devices if they are safe. Many electrical
products are sold without the UL approval and this is perfectly legal.

On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:18:19 -0500, K wrote:
UL basically certifies that electrical things will FAIL safely, and could
only underwrite the electrics of a stove. For a wood stove that would mean
the blowers or whatever if they're present. I think someone is confusing the
EPA certification with UL.

Yeah, maybe they are - although the interesting thing is that we called
around ten different insurance companies, and UL approval was what they
*all* asked about. Maybe it's some odd competitive thing and they're all
watching what each other is ofering - once one of 'em mistakenly puts UL
approval as a requirement in their policies all the others automatically
follow without really checking facts first...

cheers

Jules

In article . com,
Jules wrote:

On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:18:19 -0500, K wrote:
UL basically certifies that electrical things will FAIL safely, and could
only underwrite the electrics of a stove. For a wood stove that would mean
the blowers or whatever if they're present. I think someone is confusing
the
EPA certification with UL.

Yeah, maybe they are - although the interesting thing is that we called
around ten different insurance companies, and UL approval was what they
*all* asked about. Maybe it's some odd competitive thing and they're all
watching what each other is ofering - once one of 'em mistakenly puts UL
approval as a requirement in their policies all the others automatically
follow without really checking facts first...



UL does a heck of a lot more than only electrical things any more.
Specific to this discussion from the UL website:
UL can evaluate gas-fired or solid-fuel fired hearth product
appliances to the applicable U.S., Canadian and global requirements.
This includes factory-built fireplaces, fireplace stoves, room heaters,
pellet stoves and fireplace inserts. We can evaluate gas-only fired
units, solid-fuel units, or units that use a combination of gas and
other heat sources such as wood, coal or other solid-fuel. We also
evaluate outdoor gas or solid-fuel appliances such as fireplaces or log
sets.

--
To find that place where the rats don't race
and the phones don't ring at all.
If once, you've slept on an island.
Scott Kirby "If once you've slept on an island"

In article 9eb36af8-0e0d-4281-9f95-26c494889ab4
@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com, )
says...
How valuable is the OP TIME???

by the time you harvest the wood, split the wood, stack the wood far
enough away so you dont attract termites, haull the wood inside, burn
the wood, haul out the ashes and maintain the stove

well your wood is on site which helps a lot.

but it takes lots of time to do all that work.

what can you sell a hour of shop time for?


free firewood sounds wonderful but its not really free

dont forget to notify your homeowners insurance company, your rates
will likely go up

but if you dont notify them, and have a fire, they may disown you
covering nothing......

isnt free firewood wonderful, sorry for dumping water on your plans

There are other advantages to heating with wood. Just having your own
energy utility is very nice. When the power goes out, the warmth and
comfort of my home doesn't change. I have a camp stove for cooking
during outages, but have never used it. Instead, I just cook on top of
the wood stove. Warm feet and hot meals are a real luxury in an ice
storm. I feel sorry for those folks who are trying to cook over a
burning bank statement.

It is also good exercise, and more moral than burning fossil fuels.


--
For email, replace firstnamelastinitial
with my first name and last initial.

"Jules" wrote in message
On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:22:29 -0700, Bill wrote:

I'm not sure what EPA approval is...

EPA is Environmental Protection Agency.

Yes, just wasn't sure what the difference was between that and UL
approval, which is what all the insurance companies around here seem to be
worried about... (none of them ever mentioned any EPA approval requirement
to us, anyway*)


EPA would be required by state law or local law and the local building
inspector would be the one looking for this.

Then UL stands for Underwriters Laboratories. An "underwriter" is an
insurance company. So UL inspects things for insurance companies. And if
there is a UL label, then the insurance company can be assured the product
will not cause a fire (if installed properly). And that there will probably
not be any claim from you for damages resulting from a fire.

Thus they can collect your monthly insurance premium and not have to pay
anything out! The insurance company is then happy!

Here are the requirements for Oregon (for example) about the EPA label...
http://www.deq.state.or.us/aq/burnin...es/buysell.htm

Roger Shoaf wrote:
A neat idea is a wood burning furnace that sits outside. This heats
a water jacket and then you pump the water to a heat exchanger in the
office/shop.

Inside no soot, no bugs and you can stack the wood close to the
furnace instead of lugging it inside and lugging the ashes back out.


Completely illegal in Washington state.




"coloradotrout" wrote in message
...
My office is in the 12x24 section of my 36x24 shop. All 36x24 is
insulated - walls and ceilings. The office side has 2 man doors -
one to the outside and the other to the shop. The shop-side has a
couple of garage doors.

The 12x24 has a 220v electric heater.

I have plenty of hardwood on the property to heat - hedge, locust,
oak.

#1 priority is to heat the office, Mon - Friday 10 hours a day
#2 is to heat the shop as needed
#3 is to heat in the event we lose power to the house and need to
live in the office/shop for a few days.

Any thoughts on a low cost wood burning stove? Hedge burns hot --
I've heard stories of it turning stoves red.

I have a simple, low-slope, gabel roof, in case that influences the
chimney pipe.

Roger Shoaf wrote:
A neat idea is a wood burning furnace that sits outside. This heats
a water jacket and then you pump the water to a heat exchanger in the
office/shop.

Inside no soot, no bugs and you can stack the wood close to the
furnace instead of lugging it inside and lugging the ashes back out.


Completely illegal in Washington state.




"coloradotrout" wrote in message
...
My office is in the 12x24 section of my 36x24 shop. All 36x24 is
insulated - walls and ceilings. The office side has 2 man doors -
one to the outside and the other to the shop. The shop-side has a
couple of garage doors.

The 12x24 has a 220v electric heater.

I have plenty of hardwood on the property to heat - hedge, locust,
oak.

#1 priority is to heat the office, Mon - Friday 10 hours a day
#2 is to heat the shop as needed
#3 is to heat in the event we lose power to the house and need to
live in the office/shop for a few days.

Any thoughts on a low cost wood burning stove? Hedge burns hot --
I've heard stories of it turning stoves red.

I have a simple, low-slope, gabel roof, in case that influences the
chimney pipe.

A neat idea is a wood burning furnace that sits outside. This heats a water
jacket and then you pump the water to a heat exchanger in the office/shop.

Inside no soot, no bugs and you can stack the wood close to the furnace
instead of lugging it inside and lugging the ashes back out.

You might also look into a heat pump.


--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.


"coloradotrout" wrote in message
...
My office is in the 12x24 section of my 36x24 shop. All 36x24 is
insulated - walls and ceilings. The office side has 2 man doors - one
to the outside and the other to the shop. The shop-side has a couple
of garage doors.

The 12x24 has a 220v electric heater.

I have plenty of hardwood on the property to heat - hedge, locust,
oak.

#1 priority is to heat the office, Mon - Friday 10 hours a day
#2 is to heat the shop as needed
#3 is to heat in the event we lose power to the house and need to live
in the office/shop for a few days.

Any thoughts on a low cost wood burning stove? Hedge burns hot --
I've heard stories of it turning stoves red.

I have a simple, low-slope, gabel roof, in case that influences the
chimney pipe.