I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

"mm" wrote in message
...
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

I worked administration in a large nursing home and we contracted our main
hall way to be done in 12" tile. After it dried we noticed the tiles were
not even and the administrator had them take them all out and do it again.
Mainly because the residents rarely worn shoes and it was uncomfortable to
bare feet.

On Oct 22, 2:02*pm, mm wrote:
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. * Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

Not to me. It should be one year jail time minimum.

mm wrote:
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

A half millimeter? How did you measure that? Basic of tile
installation is to use a length of 2x4 or whatever to tamp newest-set
tiles so that they are level with and at the same level as adjoining
tiles. Saw a neighbor going through great pains to set pavers in cement
on a concrete sidewalk - used a level to make sure each paver was level
as he went. Every paver was precisely level, just not the same
level....a little higher, a little lower. Can see it clearly. He
claimed to be brain damaged from falling off roofs when he was an
alcoholic. There was no "was" to that part of the story )

On Oct 22, 3:02*pm, mm wrote:
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. * Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

I had to convert that to inches to get a clearer picture of the
problem.

..5 mm = .0197 inches - and you said "maybe less".

Assuming there is a grout line between the tiles, how could you even
tell that some tiles are off by such a miniscule amount?

I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?


*Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid, fast
install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are pretty good.
If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I would say that is
unacceptable.

"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?


*Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid, fast
install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are pretty good.
If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I would say that is
unacceptable.

That seems like strange logic.

If you get paid less, you'd do the job intentionally sloppy? I'd think a
competent tile person would have to try to screw it up.

Master Betty wrote:
"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the
difference with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser
has to be lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?


*Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid,
fast install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are
pretty good. If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I
would say that is unacceptable.

That seems like strange logic.

If you get paid less, you'd do the job intentionally sloppy? I'd
think a competent tile person would have to try to screw it up.

Fast, correct, cheap. Pick two.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the
difference with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser
has to be lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?


*Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid,
fast install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are
pretty good. If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I
would say that is unacceptable.

That seems like strange logic.

If you get paid less, you'd do the job intentionally sloppy? I'd
think a competent tile person would have to try to screw it up.

Fast, correct, cheap. Pick two.


Maybe I'm not thinking in the real world but usually the better workers
"are" the faster workers.

For example: If a barber is taking too long to cut my hair I know I won't
like the results.

A cheaper tile job to me means cheaper tile. Not sloppy installation.

Jim

On Oct 22, 4:36*pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. * Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

*Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid, fast
install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are pretty good.
If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I would say that is
unacceptable.

Any hack would point to a job where the lippage was within a half
millimeter as a great job, and he wouldn't be wrong. Most owners
would be tickled to have a job that flat. A half millimeter is about
the thickness of four sheets of paper. Fold over two sheets of paper
and make a sharp crease, put it on your desk, then run your finger
from the desk over the crease. Now factor in that it's ceramic tile
so there are no 90 degree corners - the top edges are rounded over a
bit. Plus there's a grout line in between.

There are tile standards, and they are specific. They take into the
size of the tile and the width of the grout line. The contractor has
little to no control over the tile. All tile has some warpage from
the firing and drying. An owner would go ape **** if a contractor
rejected 50% of the tile the owner had supplied. If the owner wants a
perfectly flat floor there are ways to achieve that, and it doesn't
necessarily have to be in multimillion dollar houses.

http://www.tilemagonline.com/Article...00000000174382

To the OP: To answer your question - yes. It is within acceptable
professional standards as outlined in your brother's contract. And
here's a bit of unsolicited advice - don't slide dressers over grout
lines on tile. Even if the edges are in plane the grout line is lower
and you could chip an edge.

R

My guess would be it's off further that .5 mm. But you're right. That's
hardly worth complaining about.

As far as sliding stuff over grout lines; we do it all the time. Some tiles
handle the variance better than others. The ones we used in our nursing home
hallway had sharp edges where the ones we have in our home are contoured on
the edges. The ones in our house are off but because of the shape it doesn't
matter as much.

Master Betty wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the
difference with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser
has to be lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

*Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid,
fast install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are
pretty good. If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I
would say that is unacceptable.
That seems like strange logic.

If you get paid less, you'd do the job intentionally sloppy? I'd
think a competent tile person would have to try to screw it up.
Fast, correct, cheap. Pick two.


Maybe I'm not thinking in the real world but usually the better workers
"are" the faster workers.

For example: If a barber is taking too long to cut my hair I know I won't
like the results.

A cheaper tile job to me means cheaper tile. Not sloppy installation.

Jim


Could well be both or an inexperienced person.

Lou

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...
On Oct 22, 4:36 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

*Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid, fast
install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are pretty good.
If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I would say that is
unacceptable.

Any hack would point to a job where the lippage was within a half
millimeter as a great job, and he wouldn't be wrong. Most owners
would be tickled to have a job that flat. A half millimeter is about
the thickness of four sheets of paper. Fold over two sheets of paper
and make a sharp crease, put it on your desk, then run your finger
from the desk over the crease. Now factor in that it's ceramic tile
so there are no 90 degree corners - the top edges are rounded over a
bit. Plus there's a grout line in between.

There are tile standards, and they are specific. They take into the
size of the tile and the width of the grout line. The contractor has
little to no control over the tile. All tile has some warpage from
the firing and drying. An owner would go ape **** if a contractor
rejected 50% of the tile the owner had supplied. If the owner wants a
perfectly flat floor there are ways to achieve that, and it doesn't
necessarily have to be in multimillion dollar houses.


*In my mind I was picturing cut stone tile such as marble. I didn't take
notice that the OP was talking about ceramic which can be all over the
place. I remember seeing unfinished Mexican tile being installed in a
Beverly Hills home that had an old Mexico Theme. Rough and uneven was
normal.



http://www.tilemagonline.com/Article...00000000174382

To the OP: To answer your question - yes. It is within acceptable
professional standards as outlined in your brother's contract. And
here's a bit of unsolicited advice - don't slide dressers over grout
lines on tile. Even if the edges are in plane the grout line is lower
and you could chip an edge.

R

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:06:11 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

All tile has some warpage from
the firing and drying.

One day it was explained to me the not all tile is square and grout
lines may get crooked (?). The guy stacked numerous tiles and aligned
them like a deck of cards. Sure enough the difference was obvious.

He showed the mark/stamps (not all tile is the same) and said if you
orient the tile with the mark/stamp in the same way you will avoid
poor lines for the grout.

Anyway, it was interesting to me.

On Oct 22, 2:59*pm, "Master Betty" wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

...



Master Betty wrote:
"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. * Maybe less, but I can easily feel the
difference with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser
has to be lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

*Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid,
fast install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are
pretty good. If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I
would say that is unacceptable.

That seems like strange logic.

If you get paid less, you'd do the job intentionally sloppy? I'd
think a competent tile person would have to try to screw it up.

Fast, correct, cheap. Pick two.

Maybe I'm not thinking in the real world but usually the better workers
"are" the faster workers.

For example: If a barber is taking too long to cut my hair I know I won't
like the results.

A cheaper tile job to me means cheaper tile. Not sloppy installation.

Jim

your POV might be correct in a parallel universe but in my experience
HeyBub's comment is "spot on"

or as we say "fast, cheap or good" ..... pick the two you'll be
happiest with......

A guy who's trying to deliver on a "cheap" job with skimp on mat'l AND
labor cost to minimize the overall cost

Very few people intentionally do sloppy work but the realities of
business & low bids force workers to cut corners and accept lessor
results.
Just the facts.

cheers
Bob

mm wrote:
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

A half millimeter or less?? That's less than 1/50 inch. I think your
brother should burn a joss stick and give thanks for a good job. He also
might want to bevel the dresser feet slightly.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"DD_BobK" wrote in message
...
On Oct 22, 2:59 pm, "Master Betty" wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

...



Master Betty wrote:
"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the
difference with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser
has to be lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

*Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid,
fast install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are
pretty good. If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I
would say that is unacceptable.

That seems like strange logic.

If you get paid less, you'd do the job intentionally sloppy? I'd
think a competent tile person would have to try to screw it up.

Fast, correct, cheap. Pick two.

Maybe I'm not thinking in the real world but usually the better workers
"are" the faster workers.

For example: If a barber is taking too long to cut my hair I know I won't
like the results.

A cheaper tile job to me means cheaper tile. Not sloppy installation.

Jim

your POV might be correct in a parallel universe but in my experience
HeyBub's comment is "spot on"

or as we say "fast, cheap or good" ..... pick the two you'll be
happiest with......

A guy who's trying to deliver on a "cheap" job with skimp on mat'l AND
labor cost to minimize the overall cost

Very few people intentionally do sloppy work but the realities of
business & low bids force workers to cut corners and accept lessor
results.
Just the facts.

cheers
Bob

+++++

The guy doing the job in a mansion or a shack is probably going to lay the
tile to the best of his ability. The pro is going to do the job right
regardless. He's not going to screw it up because he's laying cheaper
tile. ---

wrote:
mm wrote:
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

A half millimeter? How did you measure that? Basic of tile
installation is to use a length of 2x4 or whatever to tamp newest-set
tiles so that they are level with and at the same level as adjoining
tiles. Saw a neighbor going through great pains to set pavers in cement
on a concrete sidewalk - used a level to make sure each paver was level
as he went. Every paver was precisely level, just not the same
level....a little higher, a little lower. Can see it clearly. He
claimed to be brain damaged from falling off roofs when he was an
alcoholic. There was no "was" to that part of the story )

Sounds like my old neighbor setting up a used above ground pool. (home
made but very good quality) There were 8' panels for the walls and he
made sure every one of them was level, and he even compared them to the
panels next to it. Most stuff he did was nice but I saw a disaster
coming. I went back over with string and a line level but he didn't use
it. He installed a fancy new liner with fake tile up at the top and boy
did that look pretty, until he filled it with water and it showed how
far he was off. It went up and down at least 1 1/2".

Master Betty wrote:
"DD_BobK" wrote in message
...
On Oct 23, 4:43 am, "Master Betty" wrote:
"DD_BobK" wrote in message

...
On Oct 22, 2:59 pm, "Master Betty" wrote:



"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.
A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the
difference with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser
has to be lifted up to get onto the next tile.
Is this work within professional standards?
*Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid,
fast install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are
pretty good. If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I
would say that is unacceptable.
That seems like strange logic.
If you get paid less, you'd do the job intentionally sloppy? I'd
think a competent tile person would have to try to screw it up.
Fast, correct, cheap. Pick two.
Maybe I'm not thinking in the real world but usually the better workers
"are" the faster workers.
For example: If a barber is taking too long to cut my hair I know I
won't
like the results.
A cheaper tile job to me means cheaper tile. Not sloppy installation.
Jim
your POV might be correct in a parallel universe but in my experience
HeyBub's comment is "spot on"

or as we say "fast, cheap or good" ..... pick the two you'll be
happiest with......

A guy who's trying to deliver on a "cheap" job with skimp on mat'l AND
labor cost to minimize the overall cost

Very few people intentionally do sloppy work but the realities of
business & low bids force workers to cut corners and accept lessor
results.
Just the facts.

cheers
Bob

+++++

The guy doing the job in a mansion or a shack is probably going to lay the
tile to the best of his ability. The pro is going to do the job right
regardless. He's not going to screw it up because he's laying cheaper
tile. ---

Dear MB-

I know there is a dead horse in here some where........

but you;re just not "getting it"

++++++++

Having laid a bit of tile myself and having worked in a tile store for a
short period may have something to do with it. I will not accept shoddy
work. Which is why I always warn anyone working on my house upfront. If
you'll accept shoddy work that's your business.

But I agree with the consensus that .5 mm is nothing to complain about.



I think it's a little odd that a post will set off an intense
discussion, but the OP never reappears or adds info. I suspect perhaps
the measurement was intended to be cm., not mm. A half mm. just doesn't
make any sense.

wrote in message
m...
Master Betty wrote:
"DD_BobK" wrote in message
...
On Oct 23, 4:43 am, "Master Betty" wrote:
"DD_BobK" wrote in message

...
On Oct 22, 2:59 pm, "Master Betty" wrote:



"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.
A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the
difference with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser
has to be lifted up to get onto the next tile.
Is this work within professional standards?
*Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid,
fast install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are
pretty good. If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I
would say that is unacceptable.
That seems like strange logic.
If you get paid less, you'd do the job intentionally sloppy? I'd
think a competent tile person would have to try to screw it up.
Fast, correct, cheap. Pick two.
Maybe I'm not thinking in the real world but usually the better workers
"are" the faster workers.
For example: If a barber is taking too long to cut my hair I know I
won't
like the results.
A cheaper tile job to me means cheaper tile. Not sloppy installation.
Jim
your POV might be correct in a parallel universe but in my experience
HeyBub's comment is "spot on"

or as we say "fast, cheap or good" ..... pick the two you'll be
happiest with......

A guy who's trying to deliver on a "cheap" job with skimp on mat'l AND
labor cost to minimize the overall cost

Very few people intentionally do sloppy work but the realities of
business & low bids force workers to cut corners and accept lessor
results.
Just the facts.

cheers
Bob

+++++

The guy doing the job in a mansion or a shack is probably going to lay
the
tile to the best of his ability. The pro is going to do the job right
regardless. He's not going to screw it up because he's laying cheaper
tile. ---

Dear MB-

I know there is a dead horse in here some where........

but you;re just not "getting it"

++++++++

Having laid a bit of tile myself and having worked in a tile store for a
short period may have something to do with it. I will not accept shoddy
work. Which is why I always warn anyone working on my house upfront. If
you'll accept shoddy work that's your business.

But I agree with the consensus that .5 mm is nothing to complain about.

I think it's a little odd that a post will set off an intense discussion,
but the OP never reappears or adds info. I suspect perhaps the
measurement was intended to be cm., not mm. A half mm. just doesn't make
any sense.

do you really find that odd? :-P

On Oct 23, 12:47*pm, "
wrote:
Master Betty wrote:
"DD_BobK" wrote in message
....
On Oct 23, 4:43 am, "Master Betty" wrote:
"DD_BobK" wrote in message

....
On Oct 22, 2:59 pm, "Master Betty" wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.
A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the
difference with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser
has to be lifted up to get onto the next tile.
Is this work within professional standards?
*Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid,
fast install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are
pretty good. If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I
would say that is unacceptable.
That seems like strange logic.
If you get paid less, you'd do the job intentionally sloppy? I'd
think a competent tile person would have to try to screw it up.
Fast, correct, cheap. Pick two.
Maybe I'm not thinking in the real world but usually the better workers
"are" the faster workers.
For example: If a barber is taking too long to cut my hair I know I
won't
like the results.
A cheaper tile job to me means cheaper tile. Not sloppy installation.
Jim
your POV might be correct in a parallel universe but in my experience
HeyBub's comment is "spot on"

or as we say "fast, cheap or good" ..... pick the two you'll be
happiest with......

A guy who's trying to deliver on a "cheap" job with skimp on mat'l AND
labor cost to minimize the overall cost

Very few people intentionally do sloppy work but the realities of
business & low bids force workers to cut corners and accept lessor
results.
Just the facts.

cheers
Bob

+++++

The guy doing the job in a mansion or a shack is probably going to lay the
tile to the best of his ability. The pro is going to do the job right
regardless. He's not going to screw it up because he's laying cheaper
tile. ---

Dear MB-

I know there is a dead horse in here some where........

but you;re just not "getting it"

++++++++

Having laid a bit of tile myself and having worked in a tile store for a
short period may have something to do with it. I will not accept shoddy
work. Which is why I always warn anyone working on my house upfront. If
you'll accept shoddy work that's your business.

But I agree with the consensus that .5 mm is nothing to complain about.

I think it's a little odd that a post will set off an intense
discussion, but the OP never reappears or adds info. *I suspect perhaps
the measurement was intended to be cm., not mm. *A half mm. just doesn't
make any sense.

not odd at all...this is the internet

cheers
Bob

On Oct 23, 11:41*am, "Master Betty" wrote:
"DD_BobK" wrote in message

...
On Oct 23, 4:43 am, "Master Betty" wrote:



"DD_BobK" wrote in message

....
On Oct 22, 2:59 pm, "Master Betty" wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote in message

...

Master Betty wrote:
"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the
difference with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser
has to be lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

*Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid,
fast install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are
pretty good. If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I
would say that is unacceptable.

That seems like strange logic.

If you get paid less, you'd do the job intentionally sloppy? I'd
think a competent tile person would have to try to screw it up.

Fast, correct, cheap. Pick two.

Maybe I'm not thinking in the real world but usually the better workers
"are" the faster workers.

For example: If a barber is taking too long to cut my hair I know I
won't
like the results.

A cheaper tile job to me means cheaper tile. Not sloppy installation.

Jim

your POV might be correct in a parallel universe but in my experience
HeyBub's comment is "spot on"

or as we say "fast, cheap or good" ..... pick the two you'll be
happiest with......

A guy who's trying to deliver on a "cheap" job with skimp on mat'l AND
labor cost to minimize the overall cost

Very few people intentionally do sloppy work but the realities of
business & low bids force workers to cut corners and accept lessor
results.
Just the facts.

cheers
Bob

+++++

The guy doing the job in a mansion or a shack is probably going to lay the
tile to the best of his ability. The pro is going to do the job right
regardless. He's not going to screw it up because he's laying cheaper
tile. ---

Dear MB-

I know there is a dead horse in here some where........

but you;re just not "getting it"

++++++++

Having laid a bit of tile myself and having worked in a tile store for a
short period may have something to do with it. I will not accept shoddy
work. Which is why I always warn anyone working on my house upfront. If
you'll accept shoddy work that's your business.

But I agree with the consensus that .5 mm is nothing to complain about.

My point is:

you cant pay for a Yugo and expect a Cadillac, that's all

Paying top dollar and getting shoddy work is a bummer.
Expecting perfection when one pays bargain rates is abusive.

Consider painting..... blemish free / top quality results require
careful prep, good painting skills & sufficient, good quality paint.
If the customer is only will to pay for one coat & doesn't want you to
spend much time on prep and wants the prime coat omitted......whose
fault is it when the results suck? Is the painter supposed to make up
the difference out of his own pocket?

You get what you pay for ....... if you're vigilant, lucky or hire
good people.

cheers
Bob

In article ,
" wrote:

I think it's a little odd that a post will set off an intense
discussion, but the OP never reappears or adds info. I suspect perhaps
the measurement was intended to be cm., not mm. A half mm. just doesn't
make any sense.

You posted only 24 hrs. after mm's OP. Give him a minute, he'll be back.
But I'm sure he means mm, and I agree with others that it's
insignificant for tile. You're not meant to be able to glide furniture
along tile without lifting it, it's just the nature of the beast.

On Oct 22, 4:14*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Oct 22, 3:02*pm, mm wrote:

I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. * Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

I had to convert that to inches to get a clearer picture of the
problem.

.5 mm = .0197 inches - and you said "maybe less".

Assuming there is a grout line between the tiles, how could you even
tell that some tiles are off by such a miniscule amount?


That's what I was thinking too. .5mm is about 1/50 of an inch.
That would certainly seem to me to be within reasonable standards.

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:17:29 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

mm wrote:
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

A half millimeter or less?? That's less than 1/50 inch. I think your
brother should burn a joss stick and give thanks for a good job. He also
might want to bevel the dresser feet slightly.

I think the dresser had metal glides.

I'd noticed the uneveness before the dresser, but had nothing with
which to measure it. I usually bring tools, but now they want 15
dollars to check one bag, so I just took a carry-on. Even then I had
to make sure my screwdrivers were 7 inches or less. I wouldn't have
brought a memeasure of any sort anyhow, unless I drove.

Maybe it was more. It seemed uneven to me, and that even I could have
done a better job. But maybe the apartment (condo) came with the tile
installed, in which case it was good enough. I'll go again next year
and bring a ruler with a strastraight edge.

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:47:22 -0400, "
wrote:

Master Betty wrote:
"DD_BobK" wrote in message
...
On Oct 23, 4:43 am, "Master Betty" wrote:
"DD_BobK" wrote in message

...
On Oct 22, 2:59 pm, "Master Betty" wrote:



"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Master Betty wrote:
"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.
A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the
difference with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser
has to be lifted up to get onto the next tile.
Is this work within professional standards?
*Every professional has his own standards. If this was a low bid,
fast install, get in and get out job I think those tolerances are
pretty good. If this is a multi-million dollar celebrity mansion I
would say that is unacceptable.
That seems like strange logic.
If you get paid less, you'd do the job intentionally sloppy? I'd
think a competent tile person would have to try to screw it up.
Fast, correct, cheap. Pick two.
Maybe I'm not thinking in the real world but usually the better workers
"are" the faster workers.
For example: If a barber is taking too long to cut my hair I know I
won't
like the results.
A cheaper tile job to me means cheaper tile. Not sloppy installation.
Jim
your POV might be correct in a parallel universe but in my experience
HeyBub's comment is "spot on"

or as we say "fast, cheap or good" ..... pick the two you'll be
happiest with......

A guy who's trying to deliver on a "cheap" job with skimp on mat'l AND
labor cost to minimize the overall cost

Very few people intentionally do sloppy work but the realities of
business & low bids force workers to cut corners and accept lessor
results.
Just the facts.

cheers
Bob

+++++

The guy doing the job in a mansion or a shack is probably going to lay the
tile to the best of his ability. The pro is going to do the job right
regardless. He's not going to screw it up because he's laying cheaper
tile. ---

Dear MB-

I know there is a dead horse in here some where........

but you;re just not "getting it"

++++++++

Having laid a bit of tile myself and having worked in a tile store for a
short period may have something to do with it. I will not accept shoddy
work. Which is why I always warn anyone working on my house upfront. If
you'll accept shoddy work that's your business.

But I agree with the consensus that .5 mm is nothing to complain about.



I think it's a little odd that a post will set off an intense
discussion, but the OP never reappears or adds info.

Hey, some weeks, I have a life. I went to dinner at friends last
night. Had to get dressed two hours after I OPosted. Did real work
all day today. Now it's 5PM, and Verizon doesn't seem to be working.

I rebooted the DSL and the computer, but I don't feel like making
phone calls. I don't know when this will get posted. Well, either
they fixed something, or Verizon had disconnected me for non-payment
(although maybe not since my phone still worked) but Verizon now lets
you pay 24 hours every day, for 3 dollars, and says it restores in
about 30 minutes. But I spent more than 30 minutes replacing my
monitor, since the old one was failing. Anyhow, now it's 8:30.

I suspect perhaps
the measurement was intended to be cm., not mm. A half mm. just doesn't
make any sense.

A half centimeter would be outrageious Maybe it was a full millimeter.
All I had was my fingers.

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:38:26 -0400, "
wrote:

mm wrote:
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

A half millimeter? How did you measure that? Basic of tile

With my fingers!

I didn't have any tools and it's a newly occupied 2BR apartment with
no tools and not even a wood yardstick. I didn't see anything to use
as a straight edge, except maybe emptying and removing a dresser
drawer, but it wasn't my place to do that.

I don't know if the floor tiles were level or not, but they weren't
the same height. At first I thought my SIL had hired a sloppy
handyman to install this, but it's in Florida and now I hear it may
have been installed years ago.

installation is to use a length of 2x4 or whatever to tamp newest-set
tiles so that they are level with and at the same level as adjoining
tiles. Saw a neighbor going through great pains to set pavers in cement
on a concrete sidewalk - used a level to make sure each paver was level
as he went. Every paver was precisely level, just not the same
level....a little higher, a little lower. Can see it clearly. He
claimed to be brain damaged from falling off roofs when he was an
alcoholic. There was no "was" to that part of the story )

On Oct 24, 8:28*pm, mm wrote:
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:38:26 -0400, "

wrote:
mm wrote:
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. * Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

A half millimeter? *How did you measure that? *Basic of tile

With my fingers!

I didn't have any tools and it's a newly occupied 2BR apartment with
no tools and not even a wood yardstick. * I didn't see anything to use
as a straight edge, except maybe emptying and removing a dresser
drawer, but it wasn't my place to do that.

Tools? A dresser drawer...? Either you've addled your brain with
injudicious use of recreational pharmaceuticals, or you're a troll. A
straightedge is never further away than a piece of paper.

Feeling something with your fingers might be the way to go if you're a
proctologist, but it's no way to judge anything except very fine
work. When my eyes no longer are sharp enough to tell if a taping job
is smooth enough for paint, or if I need to sand/scrape a bit more on
woodwork, I let my fingers do the work. Tile work isn't taping or
making furniture.

But, please do go back next year and check and let us know the exact
measurement. When you post, ask for Mr. Blue - I'll be holding my
breath until then.

R

mm wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:17:29 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

mm wrote:
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?
A half millimeter or less?? That's less than 1/50 inch. I think your
brother should burn a joss stick and give thanks for a good job. He also
might want to bevel the dresser feet slightly.

I think the dresser had metal glides.

I'd noticed the uneveness before the dresser, but had nothing with
which to measure it. I usually bring tools, but now they want 15
dollars to check one bag, so I just took a carry-on. Even then I had
to make sure my screwdrivers were 7 inches or less. I wouldn't have
brought a memeasure of any sort anyhow, unless I drove.

Maybe it was more. It seemed uneven to me, and that even I could have
done a better job. But maybe the apartment (condo) came with the tile
installed, in which case it was good enough. I'll go again next year
and bring a ruler with a strastraight edge.


Do like I did- buy a set of the essential tools of 'good enough'
quality, and HIDE them at each relative's house, so they are there when
I visit and need them. Harbor Freight, Big Lots, Sears sale flyer. Just
buy them there, next time you visit. (And with how often the airlines
lose my suitcase for a day or two on my trips, I also keep a couple
changes of clothes and a fresh toothbrush stashed at each relative's
place, but I digress...) A plastic box under the guest room bed should
be plenty big enough for your 'home away from home'.

--
aem sends...

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 21:46:00 -0400, aemeijers
wrote:

mm wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:17:29 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

mm wrote:
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?
A half millimeter or less?? That's less than 1/50 inch. I think your
brother should burn a joss stick and give thanks for a good job. He also
might want to bevel the dresser feet slightly.

I think the dresser had metal glides.

I'd noticed the uneveness before the dresser, but had nothing with
which to measure it. I usually bring tools, but now they want 15
dollars to check one bag, so I just took a carry-on. Even then I had
to make sure my screwdrivers were 7 inches or less. I wouldn't have
brought a memeasure of any sort anyhow, unless I drove.

Maybe it was more. It seemed uneven to me, and that even I could have
done a better job. But maybe the apartment (condo) came with the tile
installed, in which case it was good enough. I'll go again next year
and bring a ruler with a strastraight edge.


Do like I did- buy a set of the essential tools of 'good enough'
quality, and HIDE them at each relative's house, so they are there when
I visit and need them. Harbor Freight, Big Lots, Sears sale flyer. Just
buy them there, next time you visit. (And with how often the airlines
lose my suitcase for a day or two on my trips, I also keep a couple
changes of clothes and a fresh toothbrush stashed at each relative's
place, but I digress...) A plastic box under the guest room bed should
be plenty big enough for your 'home away from home'.

That's a good idea. Although it can't be under the bed. In the
guest room, all there are are two twin mattresses on the floor!

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 17:41:20 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Oct 24, 8:28*pm, mm wrote:
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 15:38:26 -0400, "

wrote:
mm wrote:
I was visiting my brother and they have 12" ceramic tile in most
rooms.

A lot of the tiles are about a half millimeter higher or lower than
the one next to it. * Maybe less, but I can easily feel the difference
with my fingers, and when pushing a dresser, the dresser has to be
lifted up to get onto the next tile.

Is this work within professional standards?

A half millimeter? *How did you measure that? *Basic of tile

With my fingers!

I didn't have any tools and it's a newly occupied 2BR apartment with
no tools and not even a wood yardstick. * I didn't see anything to use
as a straight edge, except maybe emptying and removing a dresser
drawer, but it wasn't my place to do that.

Tools? A dresser drawer...? Either you've addled your brain with
injudicious use of recreational pharmaceuticals, or you're a troll. A
straightedge is never further away than a piece of paper.

I don't think a folded piece of paper would be stiff enough for this
use. At any rate, there was loads to do, and I left several jobs
undone when my visit was over. (some windows didn't stay up, some
hurricane shutters wouldn't latch, screen for the turbo bathtub too
big and wouldn't go in place. Receptacles had layers of paint. No
door on guest room. Door on linen closet not hinged.) There was
nothing I could do about the floor, so it got no more time than it
did.

Feeling something with your fingers might be the way to go if you're a
proctologist, but it's no way to judge anything except very fine
work. When my eyes no longer are sharp enough to tell if a taping job
is smooth enough for paint, or if I need to sand/scrape a bit more on
woodwork, I let my fingers do the work. Tile work isn't taping or
making furniture.

But, please do go back next year and check and let us know the exact
measurement. When you post, ask for Mr. Blue - I'll be holding my
breath until then.

R

On Oct 24, 11:14*pm, mm wrote:
On RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 24, 8:28*pm, mm wrote:

I didn't have any tools and it's a newly occupied 2BR apartment with
no tools and not even a wood yardstick. * I didn't see anything to use
as a straight edge, except maybe emptying and removing a dresser
drawer, but it wasn't my place to do that.

Tools? *A dresser drawer...? Either you've addled your brain with
injudicious use of recreational pharmaceuticals, or you're a troll. *A
straightedge is never further away than a piece of paper.

I don't think a folded piece of paper would be stiff enough for this
use. *At any rate, there was loads to do, and I left several jobs
undone when my visit was over. *(some windows didn't stay up, some
hurricane shutters wouldn't latch, screen for the turbo bathtub too
big and wouldn't go in place. *Receptacles had layers of paint. *No
door on guest room. *Door on linen closet not hinged.) *There was
nothing I could do about the floor, so it got no more time than it
did. *

If you can't determine if there's a noticeable change in height
between two tiles with the straight edge of a piece of paper, whether
folded or not, then there is no gap to speak of and you're looking for
problems and finding them where there aren't any.

It's also an APARTMENT. I hope you didn't point out your imaginary
problem to your brother in his new place. A large part of being
helpful is learning when to keep your mouth shut.

R

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 06:30:21 -0700, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
" wrote:

I think it's a little odd that a post will set off an intense
discussion, but the OP never reappears or adds info. I suspect perhaps
the measurement was intended to be cm., not mm. A half mm. just doesn't
make any sense.

You posted only 24 hrs. after mm's OP. Give him a minute, he'll be back.
But I'm sure he means mm, and I agree with others that it's
insignificant for tile. You're not meant to be able to glide furniture
along tile without lifting it, it's just the nature of the beast.

Ah. A valuable answer, Smitty. Thanks a lot.

The apartment needs a lot of work. This isn't going to be redone, but
I wondered if it is another thing that was done wrong. My brother
bought it sight unseen because his sister-in-law said it was good.
He'll never do that again.

Gfretwell wrote:
In the building industry, when using these larger format tiles 1/8" is
the threshold for ripping it out and 1/16 or less is the goal.
That is according to someone who built over 100 high end houses in the
2005-2007 time frame.

Also a good answer. It definitely wasn't an eigjth. Despite what I
said, it might possibly have been 1/16, especially since I checked
only a small part of the floor. I'm sending this to myself as email
and if my brother still owns it next year, I'll remember your
dimensions and check again.

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:04:53 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:06:11 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

All tile has some warpage from
the firing and drying.

One day it was explained to me the not all tile is square and grout
lines may get crooked (?). The guy stacked numerous tiles and aligned
them like a deck of cards. Sure enough the difference was obvious.

He showed the mark/stamps (not all tile is the same) and said if you
orient the tile with the mark/stamp in the same way you will avoid
poor lines for the grout.

Anyway, it was interesting to me.

Interesting to me too. Thanks.

On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 21:24:33 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Oct 24, 11:14*pm, mm wrote:
On RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 24, 8:28*pm, mm wrote:

I didn't have any tools and it's a newly occupied 2BR apartment with
no tools and not even a wood yardstick. * I didn't see anything to use
as a straight edge, except maybe emptying and removing a dresser
drawer, but it wasn't my place to do that.

Tools? *A dresser drawer...? Either you've addled your brain with
injudicious use of recreational pharmaceuticals, or you're a troll. *A
straightedge is never further away than a piece of paper.

I don't think a folded piece of paper would be stiff enough for this
use. *At any rate, there was loads to do, and I left several jobs
undone when my visit was over. *(some windows didn't stay up, some
hurricane shutters wouldn't latch, screen for the turbo bathtub too
big and wouldn't go in place. *Receptacles had layers of paint. *No
door on guest room. *Door on linen closet not hinged.) *There was
nothing I could do about the floor, so it got no more time than it
did. *

If you can't determine if there's a noticeable change in height
between two tiles with the straight edge of a piece of paper, whether

Dang it. I told you in the first post that there was a noticeable
change in height. Lots of places.

And in the previous post, I told you why I didnt' have time to
investigate further while I was there.

I shouldn't have said it might be less than 0.5 mm without saying it
might also be more. And I'd give you 2 to 1 odds that the differences
are between 0.5 mm and 1 mm.

All I wanted to know was if 0.5 mm is within professional standards,
not all this other advice you've been giving me.

folded or not, then there is no gap to speak of and you're looking for
problems and finding them where there aren't any.

No. There are plenty of problems with the floor, every place
adjoining tiles aren't the same height.

It's also an APARTMENT.

It's a condo. He owns it. And the tile floor is in every room.

I hope you didn't point out your imaginary
problem to your brother in his new place.

No, of course not, and not because they're imaginary.

A large part of being
helpful is learning when to keep your mouth shut.

That applies to you too.

R

On Oct 25, 11:48*pm, mm wrote:
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 21:24:33 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour



wrote:
On Oct 24, 11:14*pm, mm wrote:
On RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 24, 8:28*pm, mm wrote:

I didn't have any tools and it's a newly occupied 2BR apartment with
no tools and not even a wood yardstick. * I didn't see anything to use
as a straight edge, except maybe emptying and removing a dresser
drawer, but it wasn't my place to do that.

Tools? *A dresser drawer...? Either you've addled your brain with
injudicious use of recreational pharmaceuticals, or you're a troll. *A
straightedge is never further away than a piece of paper.

I don't think a folded piece of paper would be stiff enough for this
use. *At any rate, there was loads to do, and I left several jobs
undone when my visit was over. *(some windows didn't stay up, some
hurricane shutters wouldn't latch, screen for the turbo bathtub too
big and wouldn't go in place. *Receptacles had layers of paint. *No
door on guest room. *Door on linen closet not hinged.) *There was
nothing I could do about the floor, so it got no more time than it
did. *

If you can't determine if there's a noticeable change in height
between two tiles with the straight edge of a piece of paper, whether

Dang it. *I told you in the first post that there was a noticeable
change in height. *Lots of places.

And in the previous post, I told you why I didnt' have time to
investigate further while I was there.

I shouldn't have said it might be less than 0.5 mm without saying it
might also be more. And I'd give you 2 to 1 odds that the differences
are between 0.5 mm and 1 mm.

All I wanted to know was if 0.5 mm is within professional standards,
not all this other advice you've been giving me.

folded or not, then there is no gap to speak of and you're looking for
problems and finding them where there aren't any.

No. *There are plenty of problems with the floor, every place
adjoining tiles aren't the same height.

It's also an APARTMENT. *

It's a condo. * He owns it. * *And the tile floor is in every room.

I hope you didn't point out your imaginary
problem to your brother in his new place. *

No, of course not, and not because they're imaginary.

A large part of being
helpful is learning when to keep your mouth shut.

That applies to you too.

So, to sum things up:
- an apartment is a condo
- you're a handy guy with tools, but you can't figure out how to find
a straightedge*
- you shouldn't have said it was one measurement because it might have
been more

Dude, even if you're not, you are a troll.

R

* Available straightedges (very incomplete list): A book, magazine,
broom handle, cereal box, bottle of wine, cutting board, etc., etc.