Hi,

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?

And if so - what's the best location to install it. The PVC exhaust that
the washer drains into has a vertical part that then flows into a
horizontal part. Is better to install the check valve is far down the
stream as possible? or the other way around? or six of one?

Many thanks in advance!

Aaron

Aaron Fude wrote:

Hi,

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?

No - if it is a check valve, it will catch lint, clog & never shut
properly after about a week of use.

This is what you want-
http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6833156

HD carries them as a "cheater vent" - Put it on the top of the
pipe that your washer drains into- and sani-T the drain hose. [there
should be directions showing installations in the package]

Jim

On Oct 21, 7:59*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
* a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?

No - if it is a check valve, it will catch lint, clog & never shut
properly after about a week of use.

This is what you want-http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6833156

HD carries them as a "cheater vent" * *- * Put it on the top of the
pipe that your washer drains into- and sani-T the drain hose. [there
should be directions showing installations in the package]

Jim

That solves the problem of not being able to have a vent pipe on the
drain where it is located and works with a P trap. It does not
eliminate the need for a P trap, which is what the stated problem is.

He says there is not sufficient elevation for a P trap, for which I
think we need more explanation..

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 05:27:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Oct 21, 7:59*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
* a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?

No - if it is a check valve, it will catch lint, clog & never shut
properly after about a week of use.

This is what you want-http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6833156

HD carries them as a "cheater vent" * *- * Put it on the top of the
pipe that your washer drains into- and sani-T the drain hose. [there
should be directions showing installations in the package]

Jim

That solves the problem of not being able to have a vent pipe on the
drain where it is located and works with a P trap. It does not
eliminate the need for a P trap, which is what the stated problem is.

I am not a plumber-- and I know some codes don't allow them. But
they work fine as a vent, and don't allow sewer gas into the house.
[the latter being the purpose of the p-trap, right?]


He says there is not sufficient elevation for a P trap, for which I
think we need more explanation..

I agree here- a picture of the setup would probably elicit a 1/2 dozen
ways to attack the problem.

Jim

On Oct 21, 8:43*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 05:27:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Oct 21, 7:59*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
* a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?

No - if it is a check valve, it will catch lint, clog & never shut
properly after about a week of use.

This is what you want-http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6833156

HD carries them as a "cheater vent" * *- * Put it on the top of the
pipe that your washer drains into- and sani-T the drain hose. [there
should be directions showing installations in the package]

Jim

That solves the problem of not being able to have a vent pipe on the
drain where it is located and works with a P trap. *It does not
eliminate the need for a P trap, which is what the stated problem is.

I am not a plumber-- and I know some codes don't allow them. * But
they work fine as a vent, and don't allow sewer gas into the house.
[the latter being the purpose of the p-trap, right?]

They work as a vent in COMBINATION with a p-trap. In an installation
with a p-trap and conventional vent pipe, the water in the p-trap
blocks the gases from coming into the house through the drain and the
vent pipe gives the gases an alternate low pressure exit out the
roof. The device you recommended, commonly called an air admittance
valve, is used where you can't provide a nearby vent pipe, like a
kitchen island sink. It allows air in, to prevent a vacuum from
forming and allowing water to flow normally. It will not allow waste
gases to come out through the valve in the reverse direction. But
the gases will still flow right out of the drain if there is no p-trap
filled with water. Also, the air admittance valve depends on there
being some other actual vent pipe in the system.








He says there is not sufficient elevation for a P trap, for which I
think we need more explanation..

I agree here- a picture of the setup would probably elicit a 1/2 dozen
ways to attack the problem.


Yes, since the typical washer can pump probably as high as the
ceiling, it would seem a p-trap should be able to go somewhere.




Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:43:33 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

That solves the problem of not being able to have a vent pipe on the
drain where it is located and works with a P trap. It does not
eliminate the need for a P trap, which is what the stated problem is.

I am not a plumber-- and I know some codes don't allow them. But
they work fine as a vent, and don't allow sewer gas into the house.
[the latter being the purpose of the p-trap, right?]

Yes, but you are talking about two separate things. The p-trap keeps
gas from entering the house via the drain in question. The device you
are talking about lets you create a vent inside the living space
without letting sewer gas enter via the vent. The OP has the first
problem, not the second. He wants to keep gas from entering via a
trapless drain.

On Oct 21, 9:46*am, wrote:

Yes, since the typical washer can pump probably as high as the
ceiling, it would seem a p-trap should be able to go somewhere.

I'm sure you're right. Washers are one of the easiest things to
squeeze a trap in because of the capabilities of the built in pump.

R

Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or
whatever its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient
elevation to have a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I
just can't do it).
So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump
pump. Will it solve my problem?

And if so - what's the best location to install it. The PVC exhaust
that the washer drains into has a vertical part that then flows into a
horizontal part. Is better to install the check valve is far down the
stream as possible? or the other way around? or six of one?

Many thanks in advance!

Aaron

If there is not enough elevation to install a "P-trap", you will find that a
sump pump check valve is built to be installed vertically so that the ball
closes the pipe by gravity, so there may not be enough room to install it
either.

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 05:27:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Oct 21, 7:59 am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,
My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).
So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?
No - if it is a check valve, it will catch lint, clog & never shut
properly after about a week of use.

This is what you want-http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6833156

HD carries them as a "cheater vent" - Put it on the top of the
pipe that your washer drains into- and sani-T the drain hose. [there
should be directions showing installations in the package]

Jim
That solves the problem of not being able to have a vent pipe on the
drain where it is located and works with a P trap. It does not
eliminate the need for a P trap, which is what the stated problem is.

I am not a plumber-- and I know some codes don't allow them. But
they work fine as a vent, and don't allow sewer gas into the house.
[the latter being the purpose of the p-trap, right?]

Interesting idea. But the description is "breaks siphoning action caused
by draining water" and "keep water seal in trap" and "located at least
6" above trap arm top". It is intended to add a vent to a P trap.
Without the trap there is nothing to prevent sewer gas from coming into
the house.

He says there is not sufficient elevation for a P trap, for which I
think we need more explanation..

I agree here- a picture of the setup would probably elicit a 1/2 dozen
ways to attack the problem.

Ditto.

--
bud--

On Oct 21, 9:46*am, wrote:
On Oct 21, 8:43*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:



On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 05:27:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Oct 21, 7:59*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
* a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?

No - if it is a check valve, it will catch lint, clog & never shut
properly after about a week of use.

This is what you want-http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6833156

HD carries them as a "cheater vent" * *- * Put it on the top of the
pipe that your washer drains into- and sani-T the drain hose. [there
should be directions showing installations in the package]

Jim

That solves the problem of not being able to have a vent pipe on the
drain where it is located and works with a P trap. *It does not
eliminate the need for a P trap, which is what the stated problem is.

I am not a plumber-- and I know some codes don't allow them. * But
they work fine as a vent, and don't allow sewer gas into the house.
[the latter being the purpose of the p-trap, right?]

They work as a vent in COMBINATION with a p-trap. * In an installation
with a p-trap and conventional vent pipe, the water in the p-trap
blocks the gases from coming into the house through the drain and the
vent pipe gives the gases an alternate low pressure exit out the
roof. * *The device you recommended, commonly called an air admittance
valve, is used where you can't provide a nearby vent pipe, like a
kitchen island sink. * It allows air in, to prevent a vacuum from
forming and allowing water to flow normally. * It will not allow waste
gases to come out through the valve in the reverse direction. * But
the gases will still flow right out of the drain if there is no p-trap
filled with water. * *Also, the air admittance valve depends on there
being some other actual vent pipe in the system.



He says there is not sufficient elevation for a P trap, for which I
think we need more explanation..

I agree here- a picture of the setup would probably elicit a 1/2 dozen
ways to attack the problem.

Yes, since the typical washer can pump probably as high as the
ceiling, it would seem a p-trap should be able to go somewhere.



Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have a friend whose main sewer line goes across one wall of his
basement at about the same height as his washing machine. The washing
machine connects to the stack about 3 ft above that. He eventually
moved the machines upstairs when his kids moved out.

Jimmie

Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?

And if so - what's the best location to install it. The PVC exhaust that
the washer drains into has a vertical part that then flows into a
horizontal part. Is better to install the check valve is far down the
stream as possible? or the other way around? or six of one?

Many thanks in advance!

Aaron
Hi
Gas check valve? I wonder how it works.

On 2009-10-21, Aaron Fude wrote:

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or
whatever its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient
elevation to have a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I
just can't do it).

Sorry, you must have a p-trap and standpipe. As others have
mentioned, you can raise the inlet of the standpipe as needed so the
outlet of the p-trap is high enough to tie into your horitzontal
drain. The pump on the washer should be capable of pumping high
enough to get to the standpipe inlet. Check your washer manual for
the maximum height.

If you really can't make that work, then the only alternative is an
ejector pump.

Yours,
Wayne

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 05:27:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Oct 21, 7:59Â*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
Â* a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?

No - if it is a check valve, it will catch lint, clog & never shut
properly after about a week of use.

This is what you want-http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6833156

HD carries them as a "cheater vent" Â* Â*- Â* Put it on the top of the
pipe that your washer drains into- and sani-T the drain hose. [there
should be directions showing installations in the package]

Jim

That solves the problem of not being able to have a vent pipe on the
drain where it is located and works with a P trap. It does not
eliminate the need for a P trap, which is what the stated problem is.

He says there is not sufficient elevation for a P trap, for which I
think we need more explanation..
I cannot envision an installation where a "P" trap could not be
installed. - with a cheater vent - if it is possible to connect and
drain without the trap.. The "P" might turn into an "S", but that's no
problem.

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 06:46:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Oct 21, 8:43Â*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 05:27:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Oct 21, 7:59Â*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
Â* a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?

No - if it is a check valve, it will catch lint, clog & never shut
properly after about a week of use.

This is what you want-http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6833156

HD carries them as a "cheater vent" Â* Â*- Â* Put it on the top of the
pipe that your washer drains into- and sani-T the drain hose. [there
should be directions showing installations in the package]

Jim

That solves the problem of not being able to have a vent pipe on the
drain where it is located and works with a P trap. Â*It does not
eliminate the need for a P trap, which is what the stated problem is.

I am not a plumber-- and I know some codes don't allow them. Â* But
they work fine as a vent, and don't allow sewer gas into the house.
[the latter being the purpose of the p-trap, right?]

They work as a vent in COMBINATION with a p-trap. In an installation
with a p-trap and conventional vent pipe, the water in the p-trap
blocks the gases from coming into the house through the drain and the
vent pipe gives the gases an alternate low pressure exit out the
roof. The device you recommended, commonly called an air admittance
valve, is used where you can't provide a nearby vent pipe, like a
kitchen island sink. It allows air in, to prevent a vacuum from
forming and allowing water to flow normally. It will not allow waste
gases to come out through the valve in the reverse direction. But
the gases will still flow right out of the drain if there is no p-trap
filled with water. Also, the air admittance valve depends on there
being some other actual vent pipe in the system.



Big advantage of the "cheater" is it keeps the drain from siphoning
the trap dry.






He says there is not sufficient elevation for a P trap, for which I
think we need more explanation..

I agree here- a picture of the setup would probably elicit a 1/2 dozen
ways to attack the problem.


Yes, since the typical washer can pump probably as high as the
ceiling, it would seem a p-trap should be able to go somewhere.




Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wayne Whitney wrote:
he maximum height.

If you really can't make that work, then the only alternative is an
ejector pump.

Yours,
Wayne



Thanks for the responses. Here's my situation.


The washer is in the basement. The 4" cast iron drain runs 18" below the
ceiling. So to have a 36" standpipe I would need to go through the
ceiling and into a bay in the wall on the first floor, which I can't do
because my wall sit on steel beams.

Thanks!

Aaron

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:48:17 -0400, Aaron Fude
wrote:

Wayne Whitney wrote:
he maximum height.

If you really can't make that work, then the only alternative is an
ejector pump.

Yours,
Wayne



Thanks for the responses. Here's my situation.


The washer is in the basement. The 4" cast iron drain runs 18" below the
ceiling. So to have a 36" standpipe I would need to go through the
ceiling and into a bay in the wall on the first floor, which I can't do
because my wall sit on steel beams.

Thanks!

Aaron
36" standpipe is to get above "flood level". At 18" below the ceiling
you are already well up there.

You say 18" below the ceiling. Is the ceiling level the subfloor
above, or below the floor joist? If it is below the joist you have
another 8" +/- available. What drains are already available (what taps
into the 4" CI pipe) and where? If you have a drain coming into the
pipe that you can tap into I'd put a "T-Y" in and then a trap with as
much "standpipe" as you have room for. If you are within a couple feet
of the "stack" you may not need aditional venting if the standpipe is
between something like 18" and 40" horizontally from the main drain.

Or you MAY need the "cheater vent" to keep the trap from being sucked
dry.

I tried to bounce this off a friend of mine who is a retired plumber
but he's not in at the moment. I'll see what he says when he gets in.

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:55:52 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:48:17 -0400, Aaron Fude
wrote:

Wayne Whitney wrote:
he maximum height.

If you really can't make that work, then the only alternative is an
ejector pump.

Yours,
Wayne



Thanks for the responses. Here's my situation.


The washer is in the basement. The 4" cast iron drain runs 18" below the
ceiling. So to have a 36" standpipe I would need to go through the
ceiling and into a bay in the wall on the first floor, which I can't do
because my wall sit on steel beams.

Thanks!

Aaron
36" standpipe is to get above "flood level". At 18" below the ceiling
you are already well up there.

You say 18" below the ceiling. Is the ceiling level the subfloor
above, or below the floor joist? If it is below the joist you have
another 8" +/- available. What drains are already available (what taps
into the 4" CI pipe) and where? If you have a drain coming into the
pipe that you can tap into I'd put a "T-Y" in and then a trap with as
much "standpipe" as you have room for. If you are within a couple feet
of the "stack" you may not need aditional venting if the standpipe is
between something like 18" and 40" horizontally from the main drain.

Or you MAY need the "cheater vent" to keep the trap from being sucked
dry.

I tried to bounce this off a friend of mine who is a retired plumber
but he's not in at the moment. I'll see what he says when he gets in.


OK, got in contact with my plumber friend. It's simple.
If your washer will pump high enough to reach the pipe you put a
connection into the TOP of the 4" lateral (means cut into pipe and use
mechanical joint (clamped in rubber T Y)) to 2" or 1 1/2" plastic, a
45 to take it straight up, and then a fitting to clamp the washer
discarge tightly to that pipe. No trap or vent required. Enough water
stays in the pump of the washer to seal against sewer gas. (in most
cases).
If you do get sewer gas smell, simply put an S trap in the pipe. No
vent required. If it is a front loader and the pump is not rated for
the full height, put the washer on a 2 foot high "block"

On 2009-10-21, Aaron Fude wrote:

The washer is in the basement. The 4" cast iron drain runs 18" below
the ceiling. So to have a 36" standpipe I would need to go through
the ceiling and into a bay in the wall on the first floor, which I
can't do because my wall sit on steel beams.

Not sure what plumbing code you are under, but I believe the IPC
states:

802.4 Standpipes. Standpipes shall be individually trapped.
Standpipes shall extend a minimum of 18 inches (457 mm) and a maximum
of 42 inches (1066 mm) above the trap weir.

So an 18" standpipe is adequate. Is there anyway you can fit that in,
with the P-trap and the transition from 2" to 4"?

Cheers, Wayne

On 2009-10-22, wrote:

If your washer will pump high enough to reach the pipe you put a
connection into the TOP of the 4" lateral (means cut into pipe and
use mechanical joint (clamped in rubber T Y)) to 2" or 1 1/2"
plastic, a 45 to take it straight up, and then a fitting to clamp
the washer discarge tightly to that pipe. No trap or vent required.

This sounds like poor advice. Wayne

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:25:51 +0000 (UTC), Wayne Whitney
wrote:

On 2009-10-22, wrote:

If your washer will pump high enough to reach the pipe you put a
connection into the TOP of the 4" lateral (means cut into pipe and
use mechanical joint (clamped in rubber T Y)) to 2" or 1 1/2"
plastic, a 45 to take it straight up, and then a fitting to clamp
the washer discarge tightly to that pipe. No trap or vent required.

This sounds like poor advice. Wayne

It is totally safe and legal. The plumber I talked to, a good friend
of mine, was one of the best in the area for many years up to his
recent retirement.

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:24:56 +0000 (UTC), Wayne Whitney
wrote:

On 2009-10-21, Aaron Fude wrote:

The washer is in the basement. The 4" cast iron drain runs 18" below
the ceiling. So to have a 36" standpipe I would need to go through
the ceiling and into a bay in the wall on the first floor, which I
can't do because my wall sit on steel beams.

Not sure what plumbing code you are under, but I believe the IPC
states:

802.4 Standpipes. Standpipes shall be individually trapped.
Standpipes shall extend a minimum of 18 inches (457 mm) and a maximum
of 42 inches (1066 mm) above the trap weir.

So an 18" standpipe is adequate. Is there anyway you can fit that in,
with the P-trap and the transition from 2" to 4"?

Cheers, Wayne

No standpipe required at all with a direct mechanical connection.
No vent required when connected directly into the top of a 4" pipe. No
trap required if the directly connected washer unit holds water in the
pump when shut down (which it most definitely will if pumping up 60
inches or so into the pipe.

wrote:
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:24:56 +0000 (UTC), Wayne Whitney
wrote:

On 2009-10-21, Aaron Fude wrote:

The washer is in the basement. The 4" cast iron drain runs 18" below
the ceiling. So to have a 36" standpipe I would need to go through
the ceiling and into a bay in the wall on the first floor, which I
can't do because my wall sit on steel beams.
Not sure what plumbing code you are under, but I believe the IPC
states:

802.4 Standpipes. Standpipes shall be individually trapped.
Standpipes shall extend a minimum of 18 inches (457 mm) and a maximum
of 42 inches (1066 mm) above the trap weir.

So an 18" standpipe is adequate. Is there anyway you can fit that in,
with the P-trap and the transition from 2" to 4"?

Cheers, Wayne

No standpipe required at all with a direct mechanical connection.
No vent required when connected directly into the top of a 4" pipe. No
trap required if the directly connected washer unit holds water in the
pump when shut down (which it most definitely will if pumping up 60
inches or so into the pipe.


In Ontario.

Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?

And if so - what's the best location to install it. The PVC exhaust that
the washer drains into has a vertical part that then flows into a
horizontal part. Is better to install the check valve is far down the
stream as possible? or the other way around? or six of one?

Many thanks in advance!

Aaron

i don't think that will work, cause the sump pump check valves are just
a gravity style without a spring. If installed upside down, it'll just
hang open.

s

Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?

And if so - what's the best location to install it. The PVC exhaust that
the washer drains into has a vertical part that then flows into a
horizontal part. Is better to install the check valve is far down the
stream as possible? or the other way around? or six of one?

Many thanks in advance!

Aaron

another thought, unless your stated 'horizontal line' is on the ceiling,
all you have to do is get above it. The washer will pump several feet
of head without problem.

s

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:11:51 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?

And if so - what's the best location to install it. The PVC exhaust that
the washer drains into has a vertical part that then flows into a
horizontal part. Is better to install the check valve is far down the
stream as possible? or the other way around? or six of one?

Many thanks in advance!

Aaron

another thought, unless your stated 'horizontal line' is on the ceiling,
all you have to do is get above it. The washer will pump several feet
of head without problem.

s
He said about 18 inches below the ceiling. There is NO problem Just
install as I recommended in an earlier post, as advised by my plumber.

On Oct 22, 8:57*pm, wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
* a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it)..

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump..
Will it solve my problem?

And if so - what's the best location to install it. The PVC exhaust that
the washer drains into has a vertical part that then flows into a
horizontal part. Is better to install the check valve is far down the
stream as possible? or the other way around? or six of one?

another thought, unless your stated 'horizontal line' is on the ceiling,
all you have to do is get above it. *The washer will pump several feet
of head without problem.


He said about 18 inches below the ceiling. There is NO problem Just
install as I recommended in an earlier post, as advised by my plumber.

Curious. You see no possibility that your one plumber might have an
opinion that is at variance with other plumbers, equally skilled, or a
building inspector, who may be very skilled or not but still has the
final word?

This is the typical washing machine hose to PVC connector:
http://doitbest.com/PVC+fittings-Fer...ku-416126..dib
Note the little holes. You seem to be saying make a tight connection,
no venting/equalization holes, no trap, and call it good. You're
saying that a washing machine doesn't need a trap. If that were the
case, why would anyone ever put in a trap? It's obviously simpler to
do it your way.

I don't necessarily foresee any complications in use doing it your
way, but I don't see how it would pass code. Code calls for a trap.
Some people don't care about code, many building (and home) inspectors
do.

Just saying...

R

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:35:06 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Oct 22, 8:57Â*pm, wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
Â* a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?

And if so - what's the best location to install it. The PVC exhaust that
the washer drains into has a vertical part that then flows into a
horizontal part. Is better to install the check valve is far down the
stream as possible? or the other way around? or six of one?

another thought, unless your stated 'horizontal line' is on the ceiling,
all you have to do is get above it. Â*The washer will pump several feet
of head without problem.


He said about 18 inches below the ceiling. There is NO problem Just
install as I recommended in an earlier post, as advised by my plumber.

Curious. You see no possibility that your one plumber might have an
opinion that is at variance with other plumbers, equally skilled, or a
building inspector, who may be very skilled or not but still has the
final word?

This guy was one of the leading master plumbers in our metropolitan
area and has done it many times and passed inspection.

Are you aware of anyone who has done it this way and NOT met
inspection requirements?

If not, go away.

On Oct 23, 11:36*am, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:35:06 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour



wrote:
On Oct 22, 8:57*pm, wrote:
*Steve Barker wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
* a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?

And if so - what's the best location to install it. The PVC exhaust that
the washer drains into has a vertical part that then flows into a
horizontal part. Is better to install the check valve is far down the
stream as possible? or the other way around? or six of one?

another thought, unless your stated 'horizontal line' is on the ceiling,
all you have to do is get above it. *The washer will pump several feet
of head without problem.

He said about 18 inches below the ceiling. There is NO problem Just
install as I recommended in an earlier post, as advised by my plumber.

Curious. *You see no possibility that your one plumber might have an
opinion that is at variance with other plumbers, equally skilled, or a
building inspector, who may be very skilled or not but still has the
final word?

This guy was one of the leading master plumbers in our metropolitan
area and has done it many times and passed inspection.

Leading...? Are they ranked where you are? What does a plumber use
as a batting average or Golden Glove equivalent?

Are you aware of anyone who has done it this way and NOT met
inspection requirements?

I don't personally know of anyone who has been bitten by a raccoon.
That does not mean it doesn't happen.

If not, go away.

I think it's sweet that you take it personally when someone asks you a
question. It means you're a sensitive thing and/or have a crush on
the old guy. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I'll repeat my question: You're saying that a washing machine doesn't
need a trap. If that were the case, why would anyone ever put in a
trap? It's obviously simpler to
do it your way.

R

On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 22:35:06 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Oct 22, 8:57Â*pm, wrote:
Steve Barker wrote:
Aaron Fude wrote:

My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
Â* a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).

So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
Will it solve my problem?

And if so - what's the best location to install it. The PVC exhaust that
the washer drains into has a vertical part that then flows into a
horizontal part. Is better to install the check valve is far down the
stream as possible? or the other way around? or six of one?

another thought, unless your stated 'horizontal line' is on the ceiling,
all you have to do is get above it. Â*The washer will pump several feet
of head without problem.


He said about 18 inches below the ceiling. There is NO problem Just
install as I recommended in an earlier post, as advised by my plumber.

Curious. You see no possibility that your one plumber might have an
opinion that is at variance with other plumbers, equally skilled, or a
building inspector, who may be very skilled or not but still has the
final word?

This is the typical washing machine hose to PVC connector:
http://doitbest.com/PVC+fittings-Fer...sku-416126.dib
Note the little holes. You seem to be saying make a tight connection,
no venting/equalization holes, no trap, and call it good. You're
saying that a washing machine doesn't need a trap. If that were the
case, why would anyone ever put in a trap? It's obviously simpler to
do it your way.

I don't necessarily foresee any complications in use doing it your
way, but I don't see how it would pass code. Code calls for a trap.
Some people don't care about code, many building (and home) inspectors
do.

Just saying...

R
THAT fitting is not the one to use. It is made for use with a
"standpipe"
Dumping directly into a 4" sewer lateral does not require external
venting, as the pipe does not flow anywhere near full, and so is "self
venting" to the stack.

A trap works by keeeping a "wet seal". A washing machine drain pump is
at the bottom of the machine and ALWAYS holds water unless gravity
drained. Since the hose goes UP from the pump, water will always
remain in the "trap" of the pump when the pump is shut off.

A trap is only required to keep gases from being able to exit to the
inhouse environment - and I did state that an "s trap" could be
installed if you felt it was required. - but in my plumber's extensive
experience it has not been an issue.

So yes, in answer to your question, an airtight connection with no
venting or equalization holes, and in all likelihood no trap either.
If you want to be "safe" install a trap above the sewer latteral and
then continue as described.

On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:16:35 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Oct 23, 1:52Â*pm, wrote:

He owned and ran one of the most respected plumbing firms in the area
- that's what I mean by "leading"

Well respected by contractors and homeowners - if you had a plumbing
problem and could get Ed, you got Ed.

Sounds like a capable fellow.

The reason traps are almost universally used on washers is because
washers are USUALLY not hard-plumbed into the system. USUALLY they
dump into a laundry tub, and more commonly as time goes by, into a
standpipe connected to the laundrey tub drain. With an open
connection, a trap is required. With a "gravity drain" a pump is
required.

With a pumpout system that holds water in the pump, a trap is not
required.

It is still simpler, for most people, in most instances, to simply
provide a standpipe (with trap) or dump into a laundry tub - both of
which require the very simple installation of a trap.

And as I stated, if YOU want a trap, it is very simple in the
situation described to add a trap to the setup. According to my
plumber it is not required if done as described, but he did say it
would be very simple to include a trap if desired (or if the washer
pump did not hold enough water to maintain a seal). In his experience,
he has not found an automatic washer that does not retain enough water
to maintain a seal, UNLESS it has a siphon break at the top of the
washer, which could not only allow a gas vent, but could also prevent
pumping the water higher than the top of the washer.

In existing houses, sure, the standpipe or tub drain is the way it's
been done, and that's what people are used to, but what about new
construction? New home builders aren't exactly the sort to throw
money away. If the fitting is as simple as "insert hose, tighten
clamp, and you're done", why would anyone bother with a trap at all?

I am not saying it could not work, but it might not be allowed to
work. If the building inspector says no, it's no. I wish there were
some building inspectors on this newsgroup for such questions to
provide an AHJ opinion.

R
The builder would have to supply the washer for it to be a
"hard-plumbed" solution.

On Oct 23, 3:35*pm, wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:16:35 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour



wrote:
On Oct 23, 1:52*pm, wrote:

He owned and ran one of the most respected plumbing firms in the area
- that's what I mean by "leading"

Well respected by contractors and homeowners - if you had a plumbing
problem and could get Ed, you got Ed.

Sounds like a capable fellow.

The reason traps are almost universally used on washers is because
washers are USUALLY not hard-plumbed into the system. USUALLY they
dump into a laundry tub, and more commonly as time goes by, into a
standpipe connected to the laundrey tub drain. With an open
connection, a trap is required. With a "gravity drain" a pump is
required.

With a pumpout system that holds water in the pump, a trap is not
required.

It is still simpler, for most people, in most instances, to simply
provide a standpipe (with trap) or dump into a laundry tub - both of
which require the very simple installation of a trap.

And as I stated, if YOU want a trap, it is very simple in the
situation described to add a trap to the setup. According to my
plumber it is not required if done as described, but he did say it
would be very simple to include a trap if desired (or if the washer
pump did not hold enough water to maintain a seal). In his experience,
he has not found an automatic washer that does not retain enough water
to maintain a seal, UNLESS it has a siphon break at the top of the
washer, which could not only allow a gas vent, but could also prevent
pumping the water higher than the top of the washer.

In existing houses, sure, the standpipe or tub drain is the way it's
been done, and that's what people are used to, but what about new
construction? *New home builders aren't exactly the sort to throw
money away. *If the fitting is as simple as "insert hose, tighten
clamp, and you're done", why would anyone bother with a trap at all?

I am not saying it could not work, but it might not be allowed to
work. *If the building inspector says no, it's no. *I wish there were
some building inspectors on this newsgroup for such questions to
provide an AHJ opinion.


The builder would have to supply the washer for it to be a
"hard-plumbed" solution.

It would be no different than a cleanout. Until it's put into use
it's capped.

R

replying to Wayne Whitney, Bruce Land wrote:
Make a u shape in your washers disharge pipe, this will allow water to be
traped. Make sure the area where the washer pipe joins the sewer line is
properly sealed.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ve-401544-.htm

On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 at 5:14:11 PM UTC-4, Bruce Land wrote:
replying to Wayne Whitney, Bruce Land wrote:
Make a u shape in your washers disharge pipe, this will allow water to be
traped. Make sure the area where the washer pipe joins the sewer line is
properly sealed.

--


How does one "properly seal" where the washer hose joins the sewer line? What you just proposed does not meet code, period, so the question is rhetorical. Plus it's an old thread, the kind homemoanershub folks like to find and reply to as if the person is waiting for an answer.