Every week or so there is something 'in the news' that's unhealthy or
causes a risk to one's well-being! These items sometimes even get 15
seconds of coverage on some TV news spot! Musta been a slow news
night?

These 'studies' or findings are often presaged by such wording as 'A
recent study of 56,000 suburban families finds that ....... yada,
yada, .... "!

This week; it's bacteria contaminated shower heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also with news "That some of these bacteria can 'resist' the
administration of household bleach!". Oh what a calamity! Cos I
occasionally bleach counter-tops and other areas and put wooden
cutting boards etc. into the dishwasher at high temps, immediately
after use!

But; not being paranoid or anything I unscrewed our shower head a few
minutes ago to NOT find any goopy green or black gelatinous mess of
creepy crawly bacteria (finding only one or two minute black stones at
the inlet). Perched it on the spout of the water kettle and boiled
steam (212 deg F) through it for two minutes (hoping the shower
insides haven't melted!).

Incidentally we are currently under a municipal 'Boil water' advisory
because a pipe broke at the local pumping and chlorination site. (Oh;
btw there's another substance, chlorine, that apparently was/is the
cause of asthma in many children ............... maybe that will be
next week's concern?

So reckon we are safe; eh? Now I have to clean the kettle!

Cheers

On Sep 16, 7:18*am, terry wrote:
Every week or so there is something 'in the news' that's unhealthy or
causes a risk to one's well-being! These items sometimes even get 15
seconds of coverage on some TV news spot! Musta been a slow news
night?

These 'studies' or findings are often presaged by such wording as 'A
recent study of 56,000 suburban families finds that ....... yada,
yada, .... "!

This week; it's bacteria contaminated shower heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also with news "That some of these bacteria can 'resist' the
administration of household bleach!". Oh what a calamity! Cos I
occasionally bleach counter-tops and other areas and put wooden
cutting boards etc. into the dishwasher at high temps, immediately
after use!

But; not being paranoid or anything I unscrewed our shower head a few
minutes ago to NOT find any goopy green or black gelatinous mess of
creepy crawly bacteria (finding only one or two minute black stones at
the inlet). Perched it on the spout of the water kettle and boiled
steam (212 deg F) through it for two minutes (hoping the shower
insides haven't melted!).

Incidentally we are currently under a municipal 'Boil water' advisory
because a pipe broke at the local pumping and chlorination site. (Oh;
btw there's another substance, chlorine, that apparently was/is the
cause of asthma in many children ............... maybe that will be
next week's concern?

So reckon we are safe; eh? Now I have to clean the kettle!

Cheers

My same reation! What next "study shows that air contains bacteria
and breathing it can make you sick"?

Harry K

terry wrote:
Every week or so there is something 'in the news' that's unhealthy or
causes a risk to one's well-being! These items sometimes even get 15
seconds of coverage on some TV news spot! Musta been a slow news
night?

These 'studies' or findings are often presaged by such wording as 'A
recent study of 56,000 suburban families finds that ....... yada,
yada, .... "!

This week; it's bacteria contaminated shower heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also with news "That some of these bacteria can 'resist' the
administration of household bleach!". Oh what a calamity! Cos I
occasionally bleach counter-tops and other areas and put wooden
cutting boards etc. into the dishwasher at high temps, immediately
after use!

But; not being paranoid or anything I unscrewed our shower head a few
minutes ago to NOT find any goopy green or black gelatinous mess of
creepy crawly bacteria (finding only one or two minute black stones at
the inlet). Perched it on the spout of the water kettle and boiled
steam (212 deg F) through it for two minutes (hoping the shower
insides haven't melted!).

Incidentally we are currently under a municipal 'Boil water' advisory
because a pipe broke at the local pumping and chlorination site. (Oh;
btw there's another substance, chlorine, that apparently was/is the
cause of asthma in many children ............... maybe that will be
next week's concern?

So reckon we are safe; eh? Now I have to clean the kettle!

Cheers

I think we should all shower in wet suits with scuba breathing apparatus
until solution to this serious health hazard is determined.

on 9/16/2009 10:18 AM (ET) terry wrote the following:
Every week or so there is something 'in the news' that's unhealthy or
causes a risk to one's well-being! These items sometimes even get 15
seconds of coverage on some TV news spot! Musta been a slow news
night?

These 'studies' or findings are often presaged by such wording as 'A
recent study of 56,000 suburban families finds that ....... yada,
yada, .... "!

This week; it's bacteria contaminated shower heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also with news "That some of these bacteria can 'resist' the
administration of household bleach!". Oh what a calamity! Cos I
occasionally bleach counter-tops and other areas and put wooden
cutting boards etc. into the dishwasher at high temps, immediately
after use!

But; not being paranoid or anything I unscrewed our shower head a few
minutes ago to NOT find any goopy green or black gelatinous mess of
creepy crawly bacteria (finding only one or two minute black stones at
the inlet). Perched it on the spout of the water kettle and boiled
steam (212 deg F) through it for two minutes (hoping the shower
insides haven't melted!).

Incidentally we are currently under a municipal 'Boil water' advisory
because a pipe broke at the local pumping and chlorination site. (Oh;
btw there's another substance, chlorine, that apparently was/is the
cause of asthma in many children ............... maybe that will be
next week's concern?

So reckon we are safe; eh? Now I have to clean the kettle!

Cheers


Ignore all these scare tactics. What about the same water that runs
through your faucets? Don't drink that? I think a lot of this doomsday
warnings are the result of bottled water advertising.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:25:54 -0400, Van Chocstraw
wrote:

wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:06:22 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:37:31 -0400, wrote:


-snip-
Hot water in your dishwasher helps thin grease to aid in cleaning but
does nothing to kill bacteria. Complete immersion in boiling water for
a minimum of 20 minutes is needed to sanitize anything.
There's a long way between "does nothing" and sanitize [assuming you
meant 'sterilize' - as I sanitize my hands with soap & 100degree
water]. There is an NSF standard that says 160 degrees for 10
minutes kills most bacteria.

Surgical tools might need a little more temp or time.

Jim

212 degrees for 20 minutes. You can call whatever you do, whatever you
prefer. It doesn't kill all the bacteria. It's usually the tougher
bacteria you need to kill. Wiping your cutting board with a dry paper
towel kills/removes some bacteria, too.

You can't just lump all bacteria together. There are too many different
kinds with different tolerances.

That's why you need 212 degrees for a minimum of 20 minutes. You won't
find any bacteria in a shower head that will survive that. Lower temps
for shorter periods won't kill all of them.

On Sep 16, 5:34�pm, wrote:


You can't just lump all bacteria together. There are too many different
kinds with different tolerances.

That's why you need 212 degrees for a minimum of 20 minutes. You won't
find any bacteria in a shower head that will survive that. Lower temps
for shorter periods won't kill all of them.-

It is sooooo hard for me to believe that in the 61 years of my life, I
haven't died sooner from all this bacteria, viruses, and other unknown
diseases. And to think I have never santitized/sterilized my shower
head. I must be the luckiest guy in the world!

Hank ~~~ Drinks tap water

terry wrote:

Every week or so there is something 'in the news' that's unhealthy or
causes a risk to one's well-being! These items sometimes even get 15
seconds of coverage on some TV news spot! Musta been a slow news
night?

These 'studies' or findings are often presaged by such wording as 'A
recent study of 56,000 suburban families finds that ....... yada,
yada, .... "!

This week; it's bacteria contaminated shower heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also with news "That some of these bacteria can 'resist' the
administration of household bleach!". Oh what a calamity! Cos I
occasionally bleach counter-tops and other areas and put wooden
cutting boards etc. into the dishwasher at high temps, immediately
after use!

But; not being paranoid or anything I unscrewed our shower head a few
minutes ago to NOT find any goopy green or black gelatinous mess of
creepy crawly bacteria (finding only one or two minute black stones at
the inlet). Perched it on the spout of the water kettle and boiled
steam (212 deg F) through it for two minutes (hoping the shower
insides haven't melted!).

Incidentally we are currently under a municipal 'Boil water' advisory
because a pipe broke at the local pumping and chlorination site. (Oh;
btw there's another substance, chlorine, that apparently was/is the
cause of asthma in many children ............... maybe that will be
next week's concern?

So reckon we are safe; eh? Now I have to clean the kettle!

Cheers

I enjoyed your post and figured a few others might enjoy it also.
after all it was in today's news....

Phisherman wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 07:18:51 -0700 (PDT), terry
wrote:

Every week or so there is something 'in the news' that's unhealthy or
causes a risk to one's well-being! These items sometimes even get 15
seconds of coverage on some TV news spot! Musta been a slow news
night?

These 'studies' or findings are often presaged by such wording as 'A
recent study of 56,000 suburban families finds that ....... yada,
yada, .... "!

This week; it's bacteria contaminated shower heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also with news "That some of these bacteria can 'resist' the
administration of household bleach!". Oh what a calamity! Cos I
occasionally bleach counter-tops and other areas and put wooden
cutting boards etc. into the dishwasher at high temps, immediately
after use!

But; not being paranoid or anything I unscrewed our shower head a few
minutes ago to NOT find any goopy green or black gelatinous mess of
creepy crawly bacteria (finding only one or two minute black stones at
the inlet). Perched it on the spout of the water kettle and boiled
steam (212 deg F) through it for two minutes (hoping the shower
insides haven't melted!).

Incidentally we are currently under a municipal 'Boil water' advisory
because a pipe broke at the local pumping and chlorination site. (Oh;
btw there's another substance, chlorine, that apparently was/is the
cause of asthma in many children ............... maybe that will be
next week's concern?

So reckon we are safe; eh? Now I have to clean the kettle!

Cheers


Not all bacteria is unsafe. In fact, eating yogurt regularly will
help keep the good bacteria in your body and can eliminate bad breath.
Not sure who dosn't turn on the shower before entering the shower, a
quart of water should flush out most of the creapy crawlers. Also
keep your water heater temperature no lower than 120 degrees F, else
you might get bad bacteria growth in your water tank.

Don't know about shower heads, but when I bought this place it had been
empty 6-8 months, and the bathroom sink spit out nasty-smelling black
water for a few minutes when first used. 2-3 minutes of full hot seemed
to clear it up.

I ain't losing any sleep over it. And I'm sure not replacing shower
heads quarterly, like one of the newspaper articles around here
suggested. I might soak it in CLR or something if it teakettles up on
me, in spite of the water softener. (My well water sucks, mineral-load wise)

--
aem sends...

On Sep 16, 5:59*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:39:11 GMT,

wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:34:37 -0400, in alt.home.repair, wrote:

That's why you need 212 degrees for a minimum of 20 minutes. You won't
find any bacteria in a shower head that will survive that. Lower temps
for shorter periods won't kill all of them.

Do you live right on the seacoast? *At my inland altitude, water boils at a
scant 204 degrees.

You can still heat it to 212 degrees, dopey.

Only in a sealed container dopey. You can't do it in an open pan.

Harry K

Two things doctors learn on the first day:

All bleeding stops eventually.

Everybody dies from something.

Steve

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:33:48 -0700 (PDT), harry k
wrote:

On Sep 16, 5:59*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:39:11 GMT,

wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:34:37 -0400, in alt.home.repair, wrote:

That's why you need 212 degrees for a minimum of 20 minutes. You won't
find any bacteria in a shower head that will survive that. Lower temps
for shorter periods won't kill all of them.

Do you live right on the seacoast? *At my inland altitude, water boils at a
scant 204 degrees.

You can still heat it to 212 degrees, dopey.

Only in a sealed container dopey. You can't do it in an open pan.

Harry K


You are wrong. Water can be heated past the boiling point.

You could also, of course, heat oil to 500 degrees. That would kill
bacteria, too.

For that matter, if you think you can do it only using water by using
a pressure cooker, you still have a way of heating water to 212
degrees, don't you?

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:59:04 -0400, in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:39:11 GMT,
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:34:37 -0400, in alt.home.repair, wrote:

That's why you need 212 degrees for a minimum of 20 minutes. You won't
find any bacteria in a shower head that will survive that. Lower temps
for shorter periods won't kill all of them.

Do you live right on the seacoast? At my inland altitude, water boils at a
scant 204 degrees.

You can still heat it to 212 degrees, dopey.

Using a pressure cooker for sterilization is beyond paranoid. Why not just
get it right to begin with by buying an autoclave?

--
Due to Usenet spam, emailed replies must pass an intelligence test: if
you want me to read your reply, be sure to include this line of text in
your email, but remove this line before sending, otherwise my filters
will delete your email with all due prejudice. Thanks!

Hustlin' Hank wrote:
On Sep 16, 5:34�pm, wrote:

You can't just lump all bacteria together. There are too many different
kinds with different tolerances.
That's why you need 212 degrees for a minimum of 20 minutes. You won't
find any bacteria in a shower head that will survive that. Lower temps
for shorter periods won't kill all of them.-

It is sooooo hard for me to believe that in the 61 years of my life, I
haven't died sooner from all this bacteria, viruses, and other unknown
diseases. And to think I have never santitized/sterilized my shower
head. I must be the luckiest guy in the world!

Hank ~~~ Drinks tap water
What most lay persons do not appreciate is that the greatest statistical risk
from what comes out of their tap is chemical, not biological contamination. All
the sterilization in the world will do nothing to keep PERC and countless other
carcinogenic and/or mutagenic chemicals off their skin and out of their system.

On Sep 17, 3:34*am, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:33:48 -0700 (PDT), harry k





wrote:
On Sep 16, 5:59*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:39:11 GMT,

wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:34:37 -0400, in alt.home.repair, wrote:

That's why you need 212 degrees for a minimum of 20 minutes. You won't
find any bacteria in a shower head that will survive that. Lower temps
for shorter periods won't kill all of them.

Do you live right on the seacoast? *At my inland altitude, water boils at a
scant 204 degrees.

You can still heat it to 212 degrees, dopey.

Only in a sealed container dopey. *You can't do it in an open pan.

Harry K

You are wrong. Water can be heated past the boiling point.

You could also, of course, heat oil to 500 degrees. That would kill
bacteria, too.

For that matter, if you think you can do it only using water by using
a pressure cooker, you still have a way of heating water to 212
degrees, don't you?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My point (add it to the one on your head) is that you CANNOT, no
matter how you try heat water to 212 degrees in an open pan except at
sealevel...even then perhaps not depending on the barometer reading.

I would explain why to you but it would not sink in.

Harry K

On Sep 17, 8:55*am, E Z Peaces wrote:
wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 14:04:15 GMT,
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:59:04 -0400, in alt.home.repair, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:39:11 GMT,
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:34:37 -0400, in alt.home.repair, wrote:

That's why you need 212 degrees for a minimum of 20 minutes. You won't
find any bacteria in a shower head that will survive that. Lower temps
for shorter periods won't kill all of them.
Do you live right on the seacoast? *At my inland altitude, water boils at a
scant 204 degrees.
You can still heat it to 212 degrees, dopey.
Using a pressure cooker for sterilization is beyond paranoid. *Why not just
get it right to begin with by buying an autoclave?

Oh, relax! I haven't even agreed that bacteria in a showerhead is a
problem. Someone posted that they thought that the hot water in their
dishwasher was sterilizing things, and I simply pointed out that
anything less than 212 degrees for 20 minutes is not considered
sterilizing. One person even went off the rails over my use of the
word sanitize, versus sterilize.

Now you've made me spill hot coffee on my lap! *I hope I'm not
sterilized! *A sanitizer need only produce a 5 log reduction. *That's
not sterilizing. *Anything less than 15 minutes at 250 F is not
considered sterilizing.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

SA seems to be theliving example of "a little knowledge is a dangerous
thing".

Harry K

On Sep 17, 11:31�am, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 07:57:38 -0700 (PDT), "Hustlin' Hank"





wrote:
On Sep 17, 12:29?am, aemeijers wrote:

Don't know about shower heads, but when I bought this place it had been
empty 6-8 months, and the bathroom sink spit out nasty-smelling black
water for a few minutes when first used. 2-3 minutes of full hot seemed
to clear it up.

I ain't losing any sleep over it. And I'm sure not replacing shower
heads quarterly, like one of the newspaper articles around here
suggested. I might soak it in CLR or something if it teakettles up on
me, in spite of the water softener. (My well water sucks, mineral-load wise)

--
aem sends...-

I suggest to you and others that are on a public water system to
follow the fire department or service department, or whomever flushes
the fire hydrants to see what the water looks like that comes out.
This is the same water you are drinking. The first few gallons are
what has been laying in the barrel of the hydrant, after that, it is
what is in the water line that you drink. See how long it takes to
"clear up".

You'll be amazed of the junk you drink, and still live.

Hank ~~~doesn't want to get started on bacteria restaurants

Sediment is not bacteria.-

I never said it was. I was just making a point that if they saw what
was in their waterlines, they'd probably quit drinking it. However, I
still drink tap water.

Hank ~~~loves the adrenaline rush from drinking tap water :-)

On Sep 17, 3:02*pm, "Hustlin' Hank" wrote:
On Sep 17, 3:19 pm, harry k wrote:





On Sep 17, 3:34 am, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:33:48 -0700 (PDT), harry k

wrote:
On Sep 16, 5:59 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:39:11 GMT,

wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:34:37 -0400, in alt.home.repair, wrote:

That's why you need 212 degrees for a minimum of 20 minutes. You won't
find any bacteria in a shower head that will survive that. Lower temps
for shorter periods won't kill all of them.

Do you live right on the seacoast? At my inland altitude, water boils at a
scant 204 degrees.

You can still heat it to 212 degrees, dopey.

Only in a sealed container dopey. You can't do it in an open pan.

Harry K

You are wrong. Water can be heated past the boiling point.

You could also, of course, heat oil to 500 degrees. That would kill
bacteria, too.

For that matter, if you think you can do it only using water by using
a pressure cooker, you still have a way of heating water to 212
degrees, don't you?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My point (add it to the one on your head) is that you CANNOT, no
matter how you try heat water to 212 degrees in an open pan except at
sealevel...even then perhaps not depending on the barometer reading.

I would explain why to you but it would not sink in.

Harry K-

So, if water boils at 212 degrees (what I learned in elementary school
and relatively speaking), what temp is the steam that is produced?
211? 213? .....LOL

Hank- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

212, you got it first time. And water will boil at OR BELOW 212
depending on atmospheric pressure. Of course that is in an open
container.

Harry K

On Sep 17, 4:32*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:22:41 -0400, in alt.home.repair, wrote:
Water temps can be made to rise further after boiling starts.

Do explain.


Yes, I am waiting for it. I wonder if that is possible usign some
esoteric laboratory equipment/heat source. I picture some massive
amount of heat applied such that even boiling can't carry off the
excess heat.

Harry K

In article
,
harry k wrote:

On Sep 17, 4:32*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:22:41 -0400, in alt.home.repair, wrote:
Water temps can be made to rise further after boiling starts.

Do explain.


Yes, I am waiting for it. I wonder if that is possible usign some
esoteric laboratory equipment/heat source. I picture some massive
amount of heat applied such that even boiling can't carry off the
excess heat.

Harry K

Salty Dog knows, adding salt to water increases the boiling temperature.
Not too esoteric.

"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
Roger Shoaf wrote:
"terry" wrote in message

...
Also with news "That some of these bacteria can 'resist' the
administration of household bleach!". Oh what a calamity! Cos I
occasionally bleach counter-tops and other areas and put wooden
cutting boards etc. into the dishwasher at high temps, immediately
after use!

On cutting boards you can forget about the dish washer. For one thing
you
can kill the wood and for another you are lucky you have wood cutting
boards
as the wood tends to kill off the pathogens due to the mechanical
difficulties of the woods surface.

All you need to do is to use soap or detergent to break the fats or oils
on
the surface and rinse really well, then dry. Surprisingly the plastic
cutting boards are the problem as the bugs thrive in the depths of the
little slices making them virtually imposable to kill.

The FDA outlawed wood because it couldn't be run through a washer.
Scientists who may have been partial to wood found that if they made
cuts on a wooden board and cleaned it with a sponge and dishwashing
liquid, they couldn't find bacteria on the surface. Bacteria below the
surface were found days later, though.

If they cut on dry boards, swelling would have trapped the bacteria that
didn't wash off. With the old, wet boards I've used, the results might
not have been so good.

Some cut on counters or plates, not boards. Statistically, people with
wooden boards have half the risk of food poisoning, and those with
plastic or glass have twice the risk. Glass? Glass doesn't have slices
to trap bacteria, does it?

Statistically, washing a cutting board between uses does not affect a
person's risk of food poisoning. Whatever board you use, washing should
get rid of most of the bacteria. If it doesn't reduce the risk of
food poisoning, it sounds as if cutting boards are not a significant
danger.

The risk is 23 times higher for people who undercook chicken. I think
that's why glass is statistically more dangerous than wood. A person
who undercooks chicken sounds careless. Isn't a careless person likely
to choose whatever board looks easiest to care for? That would be
plastic or glass.


Here is a copy of the article from the UC Davis PhD:
http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/i...tingboard.html

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 22:23:56 -0700, in alt.home.repair, Smitty Two
wrote:

Salty Dog knows, adding salt to water increases the boiling temperature.
Not too esoteric.

Ah, that's true...but won't that generally be at odds with the idea of using
a boiling water bath to sterilize something? When I clean my contact lens
case, I boil it in distilled water specifically to avoid leaving mineral
deposits.

--
Due to Usenet spam, emailed replies must pass an intelligence test: if
you want me to read your reply, be sure to include this line of text in
your email, but remove this line before sending, otherwise my filters
will delete your email with all due prejudice. Thanks!

On Sep 17, 10:23*pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
*harry k wrote:

On Sep 17, 4:32*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 15:22:41 -0400, in alt.home.repair, wrote:
Water temps can be made to rise further after boiling starts.

Do explain.

Yes, I am waiting for it. *I wonder if that is possible usign some
esoteric laboratory equipment/heat source. *I picture some massive
amount of heat applied such that even boiling can't carry off the
excess heat.

Harry K

Salty Dog knows, adding salt to water increases the boiling temperature.
Not too esoteric.

So would adding numerous other substances. That does not equal
boiling WATER.

Harry K

wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 12:06:22 -0400, Jim Elbrecht
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:37:31 -0400, wrote:


-snip-
Hot water in your dishwasher helps thin grease to aid in cleaning but
does nothing to kill bacteria. Complete immersion in boiling water for
a minimum of 20 minutes is needed to sanitize anything.
There's a long way between "does nothing" and sanitize [assuming you
meant 'sterilize' - as I sanitize my hands with soap & 100degree
water]. There is an NSF standard that says 160 degrees for 10
minutes kills most bacteria.

Surgical tools might need a little more temp or time.

Jim

212 degrees for 20 minutes. You can call whatever you do, whatever you
prefer. It doesn't kill all the bacteria. It's usually the tougher
bacteria you need to kill. Wiping your cutting board with a dry paper
towel kills/removes some bacteria, too.

And letting the wooden cutting board dry completely kills even more
bacteria. It is proven that plastic cutting boards are more likely to
hold living bacteria than wooden ones. One of the reasons is becasue
both boards will get tiny slits cut into it. The wooden one will dry
out and the bacteria will die. The plactic one can hold tiny amounts of
water in those slits keeping bacteria alive for weeks or more.

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
" wrote:


I don't worry about the shower head. Yet. I just recently read about
the majority of beaches (Florida or all of US) having contamination by
antibiotic resistant bacteria. That is no joke - it is pretty much
endemic in hospitals and nursing homes and is, truly, something to worry
about (along with docs and nurses who "don't have time" to wash their hands.


The resistance to antibiotics really is something that we humans created
through widespread overuse, and it's going to bite us in the ass in one
way or another, sooner or later. Just one example: Fish farms dump
massive quantities of antibiotics into the ocean every time they flush
out their ponds.

Not only are they creating antibiotic resistant bacteria, they are
weakening their immune system each time they use an antibiotic when not
really needed. I haven't taken an antibiotic in over 10-15 years. I
didn't need it. I let my body naturally build up antibodies to fight
the infection/illness... Each time I get sick and let my body cure
itself, my immune system gets stronger. Each time an antibiotic is used
your body misses another opportunity to strengthen it's immune system.

In article ,
Tony wrote:


Not only are they creating antibiotic resistant bacteria, they are
weakening their immune system each time they use an antibiotic when not
really needed. I haven't taken an antibiotic in over 10-15 years. I
didn't need it. I let my body naturally build up antibodies to fight
the infection/illness... Each time I get sick and let my body cure
itself, my immune system gets stronger. Each time an antibiotic is used
your body misses another opportunity to strengthen it's immune system.

That is another theory as to the rise of autoimmune diseases. We
aggressively medicate with antibiotics, the immune system isn't needed
as much and goes out looking for something to do, attacking various
parts of us.

--
"Politics should be limited in its scope to war,
protection of property, and the occasional
precautionary beheading of a member of the ruling class."
-P.J. O'Rourke

Roger Shoaf wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
Roger Shoaf wrote:
"terry" wrote in message

...
Also with news "That some of these bacteria can 'resist' the
administration of household bleach!". Oh what a calamity! Cos I
occasionally bleach counter-tops and other areas and put wooden
cutting boards etc. into the dishwasher at high temps, immediately
after use!
On cutting boards you can forget about the dish washer. For one thing
you
can kill the wood and for another you are lucky you have wood cutting
boards
as the wood tends to kill off the pathogens due to the mechanical
difficulties of the woods surface.

All you need to do is to use soap or detergent to break the fats or oils
on
the surface and rinse really well, then dry. Surprisingly the plastic
cutting boards are the problem as the bugs thrive in the depths of the
little slices making them virtually imposable to kill.
The FDA outlawed wood because it couldn't be run through a washer.
Scientists who may have been partial to wood found that if they made
cuts on a wooden board and cleaned it with a sponge and dishwashing
liquid, they couldn't find bacteria on the surface. Bacteria below the
surface were found days later, though.

If they cut on dry boards, swelling would have trapped the bacteria that
didn't wash off. With the old, wet boards I've used, the results might
not have been so good.

Some cut on counters or plates, not boards. Statistically, people with
wooden boards have half the risk of food poisoning, and those with
plastic or glass have twice the risk. Glass? Glass doesn't have slices
to trap bacteria, does it?

Statistically, washing a cutting board between uses does not affect a
person's risk of food poisoning. Whatever board you use, washing should
get rid of most of the bacteria. If it doesn't reduce the risk of
food poisoning, it sounds as if cutting boards are not a significant
danger.
The risk is 23 times higher for people who undercook chicken. I think
that's why glass is statistically more dangerous than wood. A person
who undercooks chicken sounds careless. Isn't a careless person likely
to choose whatever board looks easiest to care for? That would be
plastic or glass.


Here is a copy of the article from the UC Davis PhD:
http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/i...tingboard.html


Thank you. So the USDA recommended plastic but didn't outlaw wood.

I'd like to find out the difference between this research, which picked
up bacteria on plastic but not wood, and the research with different
results.

At the end, the article mentions the statistical research I mentioned.
Those statistics indicate that people who regularly clean their cutting
boards after cutting meat are more likely to contract sporadic
salmonellosis. That and the statistical finding that people with glass
cutting boards are more likely to contract the sickness lead me to
believe the relationship with cutting boards is not cause and effect.
Perhaps people who don't methodically clean their cutting boards are
more likely to cook only what they can eat in one sitting, and that
makes food poisoning less likely.

harry k wrote:

So, if water boils at 212 degrees (what I learned in elementary school
and relatively speaking), what temp is the steam that is produced?
211? 213? .....LOL

Hank- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

212, you got it first time. And water will boil at OR BELOW 212
depending on atmospheric pressure. Of course that is in an open
container.

Harry K

If steam is water vapor, it is produced whenever water is at a
temperature where its partial pressure is higher than the partial
pressure of the water in the air. That's when wet items become drier.

If steam is fog, it is produced when the temperature of water is above
the dew point of the air. Steam can rise from an icy road as visibly as
from boiling water.

On Sep 18, 10:10*am, E Z Peaces wrote:
harry k wrote:
So, if water boils at 212 degrees (what I learned in elementary school
and relatively speaking), what temp is the steam that is produced?
211? 213? .....LOL

Hank- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

212, you got it first time. *And water will boil at OR BELOW 212
depending on atmospheric pressure. *Of course that is in an open
container.

Harry K

If steam is water vapor, it is produced whenever water is at a
temperature where its partial pressure is higher than the partial
pressure of the water in the air. *That's when wet items become drier.

If steam is fog, it is produced when the temperature of water is above
the dew point of the air. *Steam can rise from an icy road as visibly as
from boiling water.

All true but his question is 'what temp is the steam from 'boiling
water?'

I suspect he thinks water boils at 212 at any altitude.

Harry K

"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
At the end, the article mentions the statistical research I mentioned.
Those statistics indicate that people who regularly clean their cutting
boards after cutting meat are more likely to contract sporadic
salmonellosis.

"...It revealed that those using wooden cutting boards in their home
kitchens were less than half as likely as average to contract salmonellosis
(odds ratio 0.42, 95% confidence interval 0.22-0.81), those using synthetic
(plastic or glass) cutting boards were about twice as likely as average to
contract salmonellosis (O.R. 1.99, C.I. 1.03-3.85); and the effect of
cleaning the board regularly after preparing meat on it was not
statistically significant (O.R. 1.20, C.I. 0.54-2.68).

I think you are reading this wrong. I read that the folks using wood boards
are half as likely to have contacted the disease


That and the statistical finding that people with glass
cutting boards are more likely to contract the sickness lead me to
believe the relationship with cutting boards is not cause and effect.
Perhaps people who don't methodically clean their cutting boards are
more likely to cook only what they can eat in one sitting, and that
makes food poisoning less likely.

Here I think you are attempting to get the data to support your assumptions.

If I understand the statistical study, they looked at folks that had
contacted food poisoning and then went looking for a cause. I read that
they suspect plastic and glass boards are the culprits more often than the
wood boards.

The study by UC Davis concludes that wood boards are safe to use:

"We believe, on the basis of our published and to-be-published research,
that food can be prepared safely on wooden cutting surfaces and that plastic
cutting surfaces present some disadvantages that had been overlooked until
we found them. "

And that plastic boards may be making folks sick:

"...we regard it as the best epidemiological evidence available to date that
wooden cutting boards are not a hazard to human health, but plastic cutting
boards may be."


--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

clipped

And that plastic boards may be making folks sick:

"...we regard it as the best epidemiological evidence available to date that
wooden cutting boards are not a hazard to human health, but plastic cutting
boards may be."



Not a scientific study by the sound of it. Not controlled lab
conditions. I suspect that if there is less contamination of food from
wood cutting boards it is because those who use wood are very likely to
be more skilled and knowledgeable cooks. Primary is rinsing meat and
poultry from the package before continuing with preparation because
contamination, esp. e coli, comes from gut fluids of animal during
butchering. The article mentioned people who don't cook chicken
thoroughly, which adds strength to the argument. Yuck! Rare chicken!

On Sep 17, 4:22*pm, gwandsh wrote:
On Sep 16, 7:18*am, terry wrote:





Every week or so there is something 'in the news' that's unhealthy or
causes a risk to one's well-being! These items sometimes even get 15
seconds of coverage on some TV news spot! Musta been a slow news
night?

These 'studies' or findings are often presaged by such wording as 'A
recent study of 56,000 suburban families finds that ....... yada,
yada, .... "!

This week; it's bacteria contaminated shower heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also with news "That some of these bacteria can 'resist' the
administration of household bleach!". Oh what a calamity! Cos I
occasionally bleach counter-tops and other areas and put wooden
cutting boards etc. into the dishwasher at high temps, immediately
after use!

But; not being paranoid or anything I unscrewed our shower head a few
minutes ago to NOT find any goopy green or black gelatinous mess of
creepy crawly bacteria (finding only one or two minute black stones at
the inlet). Perched it on the spout of the water kettle and boiled
steam (212 deg F) through it for two minutes (hoping the shower
insides haven't melted!).

Incidentally we are currently under a municipal 'Boil water' advisory
because a pipe broke at the local pumping and chlorination site. (Oh;
btw there's another substance, chlorine, that apparently was/is the
cause of asthma in many children ............... maybe that will be
next week's concern?

So reckon we are safe; eh? Now I have to clean the kettle!

Cheers

We do a semi-annual removal of showheads and faucet screens to soak
them a bit in CLR, just to get rid of mineral deposits. *I think a
second quick soak in some bleach/water mixture is a quick way to allay
fears.


snip

Not to worry, NOTHING will allay the fears of the truly paranoid. I
have sister. I gave her a bucket of spuds from my garden. The
bucket was the usual recycled white bucket with 'Danger - Caustic"
flag. That bucket had very obviously been throught the garden wars.
"What was in this bucket!!??". "Soap". I know her and she most
certainly dumped the spuds as soon as she was home.

Harry K

Roger Shoaf wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
...
At the end, the article mentions the statistical research I mentioned.
Those statistics indicate that people who regularly clean their cutting
boards after cutting meat are more likely to contract sporadic
salmonellosis.

"...It revealed that those using wooden cutting boards in their home
kitchens were less than half as likely as average to contract salmonellosis
(odds ratio 0.42, 95% confidence interval 0.22-0.81), those using synthetic
(plastic or glass) cutting boards were about twice as likely as average to
contract salmonellosis (O.R. 1.99, C.I. 1.03-3.85); and the effect of
cleaning the board regularly after preparing meat on it was not
statistically significant (O.R. 1.20, C.I. 0.54-2.68).

I think you are reading this wrong. I read that the folks using wood boards
are half as likely to have contacted the disease

"The effect of cleaning the board regularly after preparing meat on it
was not statistically significant." The likelihood of getting sick
depends on how many salmonella you eat at once. If you cut contaminated
chicken on a plastic board, the bacteria on the board before washing
must be 10,000 times more than those in the slits after washing. So if
boards are a health hazard, the odds ratio ought to be 1000 or so.


That and the statistical finding that people with glass
cutting boards are more likely to contract the sickness lead me to
believe the relationship with cutting boards is not cause and effect.
Perhaps people who don't methodically clean their cutting boards are
more likely to cook only what they can eat in one sitting, and that
makes food poisoning less likely.

Here I think you are attempting to get the data to support your assumptions.

The data saying glass and plastic are equally dangerous came from
another report of the same study. If ever there was a cutting board
that would wash clean, wouldn't it be glass? If people with glass
boards are twice as likely to get sick and it doesn't matter if they
clean their glass boards, they must be getting salmonellosis some other way.

If I understand the statistical study, they looked at folks that had
contacted food poisoning and then went looking for a cause. I read that
they suspect plastic and glass boards are the culprits more often than the
wood boards.

Here's an abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1342320

The study included 120 patients and 265 control subjects. It noted that
because the patients were self-selected, there may be alternative
explanations of the statistics. I see another problem. Experts
estimate that 35 cases are unreported for every one reported. So the
study is about the 3% of cases who went to a doctor; of those, it's
about the ones who chose to participate.

Cutting boards aren't even mentioned in the abstract. The study found
an odds ratio of 24 for those who had eaten undercooked chicken, 10 for
those who had recently been abroad, 6 for diabetics, 4 for those on
hormone replacement therapy, and 2 for those who had recently received
antibiotics.

The study by UC Davis concludes that wood boards are safe to use:

"We believe, on the basis of our published and to-be-published research,
that food can be prepared safely on wooden cutting surfaces and that plastic
cutting surfaces present some disadvantages that had been overlooked until
we found them. "

And that plastic boards may be making folks sick:

"...we regard it as the best epidemiological evidence available to date that
wooden cutting boards are not a hazard to human health, but plastic cutting
boards may be."


I assume the epidemiological study they mean is the Kass study, which my
link abstracts. If the study did not find that those who cleaned their
boards were less likely to get sick, I don't see much significance in
the finding that a certain group of patients were somewhat more likely
than the control group to use boards of glass or plastic.

Undercooked chicken, foreign travel, and diabetes would probably include
almost all the 120 patients.

I imagine a dinner where a housewife wants to impress guests would be
risky. She may be trying a new recipe. She's trying to have a lot of
tasks come out on schedule. She may not test the chicken to be sure
it's cooked through, and it may then sit at an ideal temperature for
salmonella to multiply.

Several guests may see their doctor afterward, and they may want to
participate in the study because they want to know what made them sick.
To cook for the group, the hostess was likely to use a plastic or
glass board because it's large and easy to clean. The hostess says she
washed the board after each use. Statistically, this sort of thing
could make it appear that glass is more dangerous than wood and washed
boards are no safer than unwashed boards.

on 9/16/09 3:51 PM Van Chocstraw said the following:
terry wrote:
Every week or so there is something 'in the news' that's unhealthy or
causes a risk to one's well-being! These items sometimes even get 15
seconds of coverage on some TV news spot! Musta been a slow news
night?

These 'studies' or findings are often presaged by such wording as 'A
recent study of 56,000 suburban families finds that ....... yada,
yada, .... "!

This week; it's bacteria contaminated shower heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also with news "That some of these bacteria can 'resist' the
administration of household bleach!". Oh what a calamity! Cos I
occasionally bleach counter-tops and other areas and put wooden
cutting boards etc. into the dishwasher at high temps, immediately
after use!

But; not being paranoid or anything I unscrewed our shower head a few
minutes ago to NOT find any goopy green or black gelatinous mess of
creepy crawly bacteria (finding only one or two minute black stones at
the inlet). Perched it on the spout of the water kettle and boiled
steam (212 deg F) through it for two minutes (hoping the shower
insides haven't melted!).

Incidentally we are currently under a municipal 'Boil water' advisory
because a pipe broke at the local pumping and chlorination site. (Oh;
btw there's another substance, chlorine, that apparently was/is the
cause of asthma in many children ............... maybe that will be
next week's concern?

So reckon we are safe; eh? Now I have to clean the kettle!

Cheers

There are bacteria like Legionaire's disease and a few others that can
live in the shower head.This has been known for years. But hey have to
be put there first from an infected person. Bleach DOES kill them so
clean your shower head once in a while. Especially if you get recurring
bacterial infections including urinary tract infections.

Bag of vinegar put over shower head and fastened for a few hours, then
scrub head will clean a shower head well. But what about water pipes?
I would imagine buggers are there too.

on 9/17/09 10:51 AM willshak said the following:
on 9/16/2009 2:51 PM (ET) wrote the following:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:49:06 -0400, willshak
wrote:


on 9/16/2009 10:18 AM (ET) terry wrote the following:

Every week or so there is something 'in the news' that's unhealthy or
causes a risk to one's well-being! These items sometimes even get 15
seconds of coverage on some TV news spot! Musta been a slow news
night?

These 'studies' or findings are often presaged by such wording as 'A
recent study of 56,000 suburban families finds that ....... yada,
yada, .... "!

This week; it's bacteria contaminated shower heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also with news "That some of these bacteria can 'resist' the
administration of household bleach!". Oh what a calamity! Cos I
occasionally bleach counter-tops and other areas and put wooden
cutting boards etc. into the dishwasher at high temps, immediately
after use!

But; not being paranoid or anything I unscrewed our shower head a few
minutes ago to NOT find any goopy green or black gelatinous mess of
creepy crawly bacteria (finding only one or two minute black stones at
the inlet). Perched it on the spout of the water kettle and boiled
steam (212 deg F) through it for two minutes (hoping the shower
insides haven't melted!).

Incidentally we are currently under a municipal 'Boil water' advisory
because a pipe broke at the local pumping and chlorination site. (Oh;
btw there's another substance, chlorine, that apparently was/is the
cause of asthma in many children ............... maybe that will be
next week's concern?

So reckon we are safe; eh? Now I have to clean the kettle!

Cheers

Ignore all these scare tactics. What about the same water that runs
through your faucets? Don't drink that? I think a lot of this
doomsday warnings are the result of bottled water advertising.


???

Are you saying that you can't tell the (significant) differences
between a shower head and a faucet?



Nope. I'm saying that any bacteria in the water is the same coming from
the faucet or the shower head, and one drinking from the faucet is
putting that bacteria in the body, which could be more dangerous than
showering with the same water.



But maybe the nature's bacteria helps to keep the human immune system in
shape???

on 9/17/09 10:54 AM said the following:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:51:27 -0400, willshak
wrote:

on 9/16/2009 2:51 PM (ET) wrote the following:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:49:06 -0400, willshak
wrote:


on 9/16/2009 10:18 AM (ET) terry wrote the following:

Every week or so there is something 'in the news' that's unhealthy or
causes a risk to one's well-being! These items sometimes even get 15
seconds of coverage on some TV news spot! Musta been a slow news
night?

These 'studies' or findings are often presaged by such wording as 'A
recent study of 56,000 suburban families finds that ....... yada,
yada, .... "!

This week; it's bacteria contaminated shower heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also with news "That some of these bacteria can 'resist' the
administration of household bleach!". Oh what a calamity! Cos I
occasionally bleach counter-tops and other areas and put wooden
cutting boards etc. into the dishwasher at high temps, immediately
after use!

But; not being paranoid or anything I unscrewed our shower head a few
minutes ago to NOT find any goopy green or black gelatinous mess of
creepy crawly bacteria (finding only one or two minute black stones at
the inlet). Perched it on the spout of the water kettle and boiled
steam (212 deg F) through it for two minutes (hoping the shower
insides haven't melted!).

Incidentally we are currently under a municipal 'Boil water' advisory
because a pipe broke at the local pumping and chlorination site. (Oh;
btw there's another substance, chlorine, that apparently was/is the
cause of asthma in many children ............... maybe that will be
next week's concern?

So reckon we are safe; eh? Now I have to clean the kettle!

Cheers


Ignore all these scare tactics. What about the same water that runs
through your faucets? Don't drink that? I think a lot of this doomsday
warnings are the result of bottled water advertising.

???

Are you saying that you can't tell the (significant) differences
between a shower head and a faucet?


Nope. I'm saying that any bacteria in the water is the same coming from
the faucet or the shower head, and one drinking from the faucet is
putting that bacteria in the body, which could be more dangerous than
showering with the same water.

So, you don't know why a shower head would be different from a faucet?
It's VERY different.


Mildew can collect on any faucet head.

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:41:09 -0500, Yadda wrote:

on 9/17/09 10:54 AM said the following:
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:51:27 -0400, willshak
wrote:

on 9/16/2009 2:51 PM (ET) wrote the following:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:49:06 -0400, willshak
wrote:


on 9/16/2009 10:18 AM (ET) terry wrote the following:

Every week or so there is something 'in the news' that's unhealthy or
causes a risk to one's well-being! These items sometimes even get 15
seconds of coverage on some TV news spot! Musta been a slow news
night?

These 'studies' or findings are often presaged by such wording as 'A
recent study of 56,000 suburban families finds that ....... yada,
yada, .... "!

This week; it's bacteria contaminated shower heads!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also with news "That some of these bacteria can 'resist' the
administration of household bleach!". Oh what a calamity! Cos I
occasionally bleach counter-tops and other areas and put wooden
cutting boards etc. into the dishwasher at high temps, immediately
after use!

But; not being paranoid or anything I unscrewed our shower head a few
minutes ago to NOT find any goopy green or black gelatinous mess of
creepy crawly bacteria (finding only one or two minute black stones at
the inlet). Perched it on the spout of the water kettle and boiled
steam (212 deg F) through it for two minutes (hoping the shower
insides haven't melted!).

Incidentally we are currently under a municipal 'Boil water' advisory
because a pipe broke at the local pumping and chlorination site. (Oh;
btw there's another substance, chlorine, that apparently was/is the
cause of asthma in many children ............... maybe that will be
next week's concern?

So reckon we are safe; eh? Now I have to clean the kettle!

Cheers


Ignore all these scare tactics. What about the same water that runs
through your faucets? Don't drink that? I think a lot of this doomsday
warnings are the result of bottled water advertising.

???

Are you saying that you can't tell the (significant) differences
between a shower head and a faucet?


Nope. I'm saying that any bacteria in the water is the same coming from
the faucet or the shower head, and one drinking from the faucet is
putting that bacteria in the body, which could be more dangerous than
showering with the same water.

So, you don't know why a shower head would be different from a faucet?
It's VERY different.


Mildew can collect on any faucet head.

Well, it certainly has flourished on yours.

On Sep 17, 8:02*pm, "Hustlin' Hank" wrote:
On Sep 17, 3:19 pm, harry k wrote:





On Sep 17, 3:34 am, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:33:48 -0700 (PDT), harry k

wrote:
On Sep 16, 5:59 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:39:11 GMT,

wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:34:37 -0400, in alt.home.repair, wrote:

That's why you need 212 degrees for a minimum of 20 minutes. You won't
find any bacteria in a shower head that will survive that. Lower temps
for shorter periods won't kill all of them.

Do you live right on the seacoast? At my inland altitude, water boils at a
scant 204 degrees.

You can still heat it to 212 degrees, dopey.

Only in a sealed container dopey. You can't do it in an open pan.

Harry K

You are wrong. Water can be heated past the boiling point.

You could also, of course, heat oil to 500 degrees. That would kill
bacteria, too.

For that matter, if you think you can do it only using water by using
a pressure cooker, you still have a way of heating water to 212
degrees, don't you?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My point (add it to the one on your head) is that you CANNOT, no
matter how you try heat water to 212 degrees in an open pan except at
sea-level...even then perhaps not depending on the barometer reading.

I would explain why to you but it would not sink in.

Harry K-

So, if water boils at 212 degrees (what I learned in elementary school
and relatively speaking), what temp is the steam that is produced?
211? 213? .....LOL

Hank- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Still puzzled by the "Boil your dishes at 212deg F for 20 minutes in
order to sanitize them"!
I'm heading towards 76 (at the moment) and the other night as we
washed the after supper dishes with my friends, medical couple; who
are respectively a) A medical doctor b) A registered nurse, we used
'hot' water, too hot to put hand under, for rinsing for some items and
had other dishes running through the dishwasher. But the hand dish
washing was certainly NOT at 212 deg or for 20 minutes.

Several days later now, I'm not sick nor have I ever been after dining
with them! I'd not like to be that sensitive as to have to boil my
dishes. But, based on the 21 for 20 mins; maybe it's wonder we are
still all alive?

That requirement sounds more like 'sterilization' than practical
domestic sanitation. The sort of standard that I hope a surgeon or
proctologist will insist upon if he's going inside me!

But also when I go to the dentist, these days one does not see the
tray of boiling dental tools/utensil that one once did!

Maybe it's all chemicals and UV lamps these days?????????

Hey maybe should install UV lamps (on timers) in our dish cupboards?

PS. Still not sick from our shower even though our boil water order
still in effect. (Something about a broken connection at the
chlorinator/pump house. I figured that for the first few days we were
still using previously chlorinated water anyway; you know 'exposure
times' etc.

On Sep 17, 8:02*pm, "Hustlin' Hank" wrote:
On Sep 17, 3:19 pm, harry k wrote:





On Sep 17, 3:34 am, wrote:

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 21:33:48 -0700 (PDT), harry k

wrote:
On Sep 16, 5:59 pm, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:39:11 GMT,

wrote:
On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:34:37 -0400, in alt.home.repair, wrote:

That's why you need 212 degrees for a minimum of 20 minutes. You won't
find any bacteria in a shower head that will survive that. Lower temps
for shorter periods won't kill all of them.

Do you live right on the seacoast? At my inland altitude, water boils at a
scant 204 degrees.

You can still heat it to 212 degrees, dopey.

Only in a sealed container dopey. You can't do it in an open pan.

Harry K

You are wrong. Water can be heated past the boiling point.

You could also, of course, heat oil to 500 degrees. That would kill
bacteria, too.

For that matter, if you think you can do it only using water by using
a pressure cooker, you still have a way of heating water to 212
degrees, don't you?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

My point (add it to the one on your head) is that you CANNOT, no
matter how you try heat water to 212 degrees in an open pan except at
sealevel...even then perhaps not depending on the barometer reading.

I would explain why to you but it would not sink in.

Harry K-

So, if water boils at 212 degrees (what I learned in elementary school
and relatively speaking), what temp is the steam that is produced?
211? 213? .....LOL

Hank- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Try top of Everest. About 28,000 feet hence reduced pressure.
And btw guess it's impossible to get a 'good cup of tea' at the ISS
(International space station)!
So water (pure water?) changes state (to steam/vapour) at certain
temps. and pressures, which are related. Right?

clipped

Maybe it's all chemicals and UV lamps these days?????????

Probably autoclaves except for sharp instruments, which generally are
disposable blades. Sharp edged surg. inst. are dulled by autoclaving.
Autoclaving is necessary to kill spores, even though boiling alone might
kill the living bacteria. There are viruses that survive even
autoclaving, I believe, but they don't produce disease (or go where
there are vulnerable subjects?)

Hey maybe should install UV lamps (on timers) in our dish cupboards?

PS. Still not sick from our shower even though our boil water order
still in effect. (Something about a broken connection at the
chlorinator/pump house. I figured that for the first few days we were
still using previously chlorinated water anyway; you know 'exposure
times' etc.

"Boil water" orders are wise to follow, since the normal clorination and
filtering aren't protecting the entire water supply. Most bodies of
water nowadays have at least some e coli, and many have other bacteria
and parasites. Of course, in the "good old days", we didn't have
hundreds of thousands of people alive and quite well, in spite of having
immune disorders that are part of a disease process or side effect of
drug treatments. In the "good old days" they might have been dead or
crippled from arthritis.

FWIW, bacteria grow very well on a bar of soap, which is why hospitals
quit using bar soap decades ago (at least for multi-user sites).

And when you're 76 y/o, your immune system is a good deal weaker than it
used to be ) Being immune to a disease earlier in life does not mean
you cannot get it again (chicken pox & shingles).

stan wrote:


Try top of Everest. About 28,000 feet hence reduced pressure.

149F, ouch! Before deciding whether to climb Everest, I'll experiment
with 149F tea.


So water (pure water?) changes state (to steam/vapour) at certain
temps. and pressures, which are related. Right?

Water and ice change to vapor at all temperatures. In some
circumstances, they don't change to vapor as fast as vapor changes to
water or ice.