I put the roof on my half-price shed kit last yesterday and I noticed
that the roofing instructions in the plans were wrong. I did a little
internet research and found some indications that a lot of
instructions either don't mention one of the key points or show the
same error as my shed plans.

My shed instructions say to install the starter course of shingles
with the tabs facing up. This puts the adhesive strip mid way up the
first course, with nothing to hold down the tabs of the first course.

I've found instructions on the web that either don't say anything
about cutting the tabs off or if they do, they don't mention the fact
that the adhesive strip should be placed at the bottom, near the eave.

I'm just curious if stats like the ones mentioned at the following
site are accurate. Is it true that 90 - 95% of roofers do it wrong -
placing the adhesive strip too high up on the starter course?

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-1...question-1.htm

I'm just curious if stats like the ones mentioned at the following
site are accurate. Is it true that 90 - 95% of roofers do it wrong -
placing the adhesive strip too high up on the starter course?

As far as I know that's how they do. I don't know if it is a wrong way.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-1...question-1.htm

On Aug 26, 11:22*am, Tony Hwang wrote:
I'm just curious if stats like the ones mentioned at the following
site are accurate. Is it true that 90 - 95% of roofers do it wrong -
placing the adhesive strip too high up on the starter course?

As far as I know that's how they do. I don't know if it is a wrong way.





http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-1...gle-questi...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Figure 3 here shows a picture of what I believe to be the correct way
to install the Starter Course:

http://www.workbenchmagazine.com/mai...roofing01.html

I'm not a roofer, I only recently played one in my backyard, so I'm
open to being corrected.

DerbyDad03 wrote:

-snip-
I'm just curious if stats like the ones mentioned at the following
site are accurate. Is it true that 90 - 95% of roofers do it wrong -
placing the adhesive strip too high up on the starter course?

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-1...question-1.htm

I guess there are 4 of us who do it right, now.g I argued for a
minute with my brothers-in-law as they started to re-roof their house.
But they've 'been in the business'[construction] all their lives, and
I haven't, so I just asked if they could see the difference in results
and let them go ahead and do it wrong.

Jim

Jim Elbrecht wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

-snip-
I'm just curious if stats like the ones mentioned at the following
site are accurate. Is it true that 90 - 95% of roofers do it wrong -
placing the adhesive strip too high up on the starter course?

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-1...question-1.htm

I guess there are 4 of us who do it right, now.g I argued for a
minute with my brothers-in-law as they started to re-roof their house.
But they've 'been in the business'[construction] all their lives, and
I haven't, so I just asked if they could see the difference in results
and let them go ahead and do it wrong.

Just 'cuz they're "in da' bizness" probably means they've got even
higher chance of doing it wrong than the DIY'er because the time to trim
the tabs is directly bottom-line $$ instead of just a few extra minutes.

Of course, the manufacturers all make starter shingles specifically for
the purpose if they would simply go to the trouble to use them...

--

On Aug 26, 1:01*pm, dpb wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

-snip-
I'm just curious if stats like the ones mentioned at the following
site are accurate. Is it true that 90 - 95% of roofers do it wrong -
placing the adhesive strip too high up on the starter course?

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-1...shingle-questi....

I guess there are 4 of us who do it right, now.g * * I argued for a
minute with my brothers-in-law as they started to re-roof their house.
But they've 'been in the business'[construction] all their lives, and
I haven't, so I just asked if they could see the difference in results
and let them go ahead and do it wrong.

Just 'cuz they're "in da' bizness" probably means they've got even
higher chance of doing it wrong than the DIY'er because the time to trim
the tabs is directly bottom-line $$ instead of just a few extra minutes.

Of course, the manufacturers all make starter shingles specifically for
the purpose if they would simply go to the trouble to use them...

--

Of course, the manufacturers all make starter shingles
specifically for the purpose if they would simply go to the trouble to
use them...

True, but if you are talking about "bottom-line $$ instead of just a
few extra minutes" the same (or worse) applies to using a pre-made
starter shingles.

Even you said "go to the trouble to use them".

Using them would mean locating them, opening the package, storing them
where they can be found the next time and all the other "time
consuming steps" involved with using them, as opposed to just grabbing
a standard shingle and cutting the tabs off.

If they won't go through the trouble/time/expense of cutting the tabs
off, I can't imagine they would go through the even greater trouble/
time/expense of using an additional product.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
....

If they won't go through the trouble/time/expense of cutting the tabs
off, I can't imagine they would go through the even greater trouble/
time/expense of using an additional product.

Isn't that what I just got through expounding on????

--

On Aug 26, 2:03*pm, dpb wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

...

If they won't go through the trouble/time/expense of cutting the tabs
off, I can't imagine they would go through the even greater trouble/
time/expense of using an additional product.

Isn't that what I just got through expounding on????

--

My bad. I took your post to mean that the pre-made starter shingles
would be an easier/cheaper alternative to cutting the tabs off, which
I guess we both agree is not the case.

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
...


I'm just curious if stats like the ones mentioned at the following
site are accurate. Is it true that 90 - 95% of roofers do it wrong -
placing the adhesive strip too high up on the starter course?

As far as I know that's how they do. I don't know if it is a wrong way.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-1...question-1.htm

Yup , that's how it's done especially by old schoolers...Don't see much 3
tab around here anymore...Architectural shingles are all the rage and are
better shingles and are faster to lay..You HAVE to use starter shingles for
the first course and the cap....

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...


My bad. I took your post to mean that the pre-made starter shingles
would be an easier/cheaper alternative to cutting the tabs off, which
I guess we both agree is not the case.

Quite the contrary. Certainteed sells starters by the bundle, they are 3
tab with defects, the tabs are already cut off. The defects were/are to
the tab portion, which is no longer there. They are priced roughly $6 per
bundle, than a bundle of 25 yr shingles.

An aside note, all roofing suppliers in my area carry them. They are not
available at the retail outlets in my area.

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...


My bad. I took your post to mean that the pre-made starter shingles
would be an easier/cheaper alternative to cutting the tabs off, which
I guess we both agree is not the case.

Quite the contrary. Certainteed sells starters by the bundle, they are 3
tab with defects, the tabs are already cut off. The defects were/are to
the tab portion, which is no longer there. They are priced roughly $6 per
bundle, than a bundle of 25 yr shingles.

Oh brother.... I hate when I proof read, after I sent it. They are roughly
$6 per bundle _cheaper_ , than a bundle of 25 yr.

On Aug 26, 2:54*pm, "Mike" wrote:
"Mike" wrote in message

...



"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
....

My bad. I took your post to mean that the pre-made starter shingles
would be an easier/cheaper alternative to cutting the tabs off, which
I guess we both agree is not the case.

Quite the contrary. Certainteed sells starters by the bundle, they are 3
tab with defects, *the tabs are already cut off. The defects were/are to
the tab portion, which is no longer there. They are priced roughly $6 per
bundle, than a bundle of *25 yr shingles.

Oh brother.... I hate when I proof read, after I sent it. *They are roughly
$6 per bundle _cheaper_ , than a bundle of 25 yr.

Hey Mike - How about changing the subject line back to the original....

On Aug 26, 2:52*pm, "Mike" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...

My bad. I took your post to mean that the pre-made starter shingles
would be an easier/cheaper alternative to cutting the tabs off, which
I guess we both agree is not the case.

Quite the contrary. Certainteed sells starters by the bundle, they are 3
tab with defects, *the tabs are already cut off. The defects were/are to
the tab portion, which is no longer there. They are priced roughly $6 per
bundle, than a bundle of *25 yr shingles.

An aside note, all roofing suppliers in my area carry them. They are not
available at the retail outlets in my area.

My use of the words "easier/cheaper alternative" meant that it's
easier/cheaper from a bottom-line dollar perspective because of the
time required to use the starter shingles instead of cutting the tabs
off.

Think of it this way....

1 - I am going to charge the client the total cost of material + labor
either way, so the $6 savings per bundle for the starter shingles
makes no difference to me and probably not much to the client since I
won't need too many bundles of the starters for most jobs.

2 - I can worry about and deal with these specialized shingles being
where I need them when I need them and all that little stuff, or I can
just toss my regular shingles up on the roof, grab whatever I want and
in a matter of - what, 2 seconds? - cut the tabs off and have a
starter shingle.

Which do you think is going to take me (or my workers) less time to
do? I sure wouldn't want to go looking for starter shingles as I move
across the roof when I've got bundles of "ready to become starter
shingles" shingles within easy reach at all times.

Since time is money, any savings on the starter shingles is going to
get eaten up in all the extra "stuff" involved with having them,
finding them, using them, storing them, transporting them, etc.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

Hey Mike - How about changing the subject line back to the original....

Probably because I had a correction

What's the problem?

On Aug 26, 3:45*pm, "LK" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...

Hey Mike - How about changing the subject line back to the original....

Probably because I had a correction

What's the problem?

The problem is that the title of the thread got changed to
"Correction" and people trying to follow the original can't find it
anymore. I stumbled across it by accident.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
..

Think of it this way....

1 - I am going to charge the client the total cost of material + labor
either way, so the $6 savings per bundle for the starter shingles
makes no difference to me and probably not much to the client since I
won't need too many bundles of the starters for most jobs.

2 - I can worry about and deal with these specialized shingles being
where I need them when I need them and all that little stuff, or I can
just toss my regular shingles up on the roof, grab whatever I want and
in a matter of - what, 2 seconds? - cut the tabs off and have a
starter shingle.


You need to think efficiency, plus cost factor. Sadly, I was roofing for
nearly 16 yrs. You need to think $, on the average our jobs used nearly 1
sq (3 bundles of starter), that's including running the rake edges for a
3/4" overhang. You need to cut (time), since I see you like to cut as you
go, you're switching from a nail gun (or roof hammer) to knife. That is
really inefficient. When you cut, you have waste, you can't let it just
sit there, someone has to toss it in a dump truck or whatever you're using
for disposal. Another inefficient step.

If you're hauling your own shingles up, either your time isn't very
valuable, or you're using cheap labor. You can't beat RTD (roof top
delivery). For a $3 per square charge, you get drip
edge/felt/shingles/starter/ venting/ collar stacks all set on the roof. If
you have regular tab shingles that you intead to cut for starters, it's
going to be more $ instead of just having starters set RTD in the first
place.


Which do you think is going to take me (or my workers) less time to
do? I sure wouldn't want to go looking for starter shingles as I move
across the roof when I've got bundles of "ready to become starter
shingles" shingles within easy reach at all times.

You don't go looking for starters. It's called being organized. Nobody
needs anyone on their roof which operates haphazardly. You're scaring me on
how you operate.

Since time is money, any savings on the starter shingles is going to
get eaten up in all the extra "stuff" involved with having them,
finding them, using them, storing them, transporting them, etc.

Absolutely wrong, its already proven.

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Aug 26, 2:03 pm, dpb wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

...

If they won't go through the trouble/time/expense of cutting the tabs
off, I can't imagine they would go through the even greater trouble/
time/expense of using an additional product.
Isn't that what I just got through expounding on????

--

My bad. I took your post to mean that the pre-made starter shingles
would be an easier/cheaper alternative to cutting the tabs off, which
I guess we both agree is not the case.

Well, I misread your misread...

I think the "for-purpose" product is/would be simpler/cheaper; simply
that even the "pros" don't bother as much out of ignorance as anything.

Hence, since they don't order the product they should (which would be
delivered to jobsite by the supplier just as the regulars would so
there's nothing else for the roofer himself to do) the installers, being
just cheap hired labor take the easy way out. In most cases, they
probably really don't know any better 'cuz they've never had any real
training, simply just started watching somebody else who didn't know any
better either.

--


--

On Aug 26, 4:01*pm, "Mike" wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

...
.

Think of it this way....
1 - I am going to charge the client the total cost of material + labor
either way, so the $6 savings per bundle for the starter shingles
makes no difference to me and probably not much to the client since I
won't need too many bundles of the starters for most jobs.
2 - I can worry about and deal with these specialized shingles being
where I need them when I need them and all that little stuff, or I can
just toss my regular shingles up on the roof, grab whatever I want and
in a matter of - what, 2 seconds? - cut the tabs off and have a
starter shingle.

You need to think efficiency, plus cost factor. Sadly, I was roofing for
nearly 16 yrs. You need to think $, on the average our jobs used nearly 1
sq (3 bundles of starter), that's including running the rake edges for a
3/4" overhang. You need to cut (time), since I see you like to cut as you
go, you're switching from a nail gun (or roof hammer) to knife. That is
really inefficient. *When you cut, you have waste, you can't let it just
sit there, someone has to toss it in a dump truck or whatever you're using
for disposal. Another inefficient step.

If you're hauling your own shingles up, either your time isn't very
valuable, or you're using cheap labor. You can't beat RTD (roof top
delivery). For a $3 per square charge, you get drip
edge/felt/shingles/starter/ venting/ collar stacks all set on the roof. If
you have regular tab shingles that you intead to cut for starters, it's
going to be more $ instead of just having starters set RTD in the first
place.

Which do you think is going to take me (or my workers) less time to
do? I sure wouldn't want to go looking for starter shingles as I move
across the roof when I've got bundles of "ready to become starter
shingles" shingles within easy reach at all times.

You don't go looking for starters. It's called being organized. Nobody
needs anyone on their roof which operates haphazardly. You're scaring me on
how you operate.

Since time is money, any savings on the starter shingles is going to
get eaten up in all the extra "stuff" involved with having them,
finding them, using them, storing them, transporting them, etc.

Absolutely wrong, its already proven.

You're scaring me on how you operate.

It appears you may not have been following this thread since the
beginning.

I started the thread and in the 3rd post I said:

"I'm not a roofer, I only recently played one in my backyard, so I'm
open to being corrected."

Since you obviously have more experience and knowledge when it comes
to roofing, I accept your explanation and stand humbly corrected.

P.S. Can you answer the original question I asked? Do most roofers
install the starter course incorrectly as shown in my shed plans (tabs
up with no regard to the placement of the adhesive strip) and
commented on at this site?

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-1...question-1.htm

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

You're scaring me on how you operate.

It appears you may not have been following this thread since the
beginning.

I started the thread and in the 3rd post I said:

"I'm not a roofer, I only recently played one in my backyard, so I'm
open to being corrected."

Since you obviously have more experience and knowledge when it comes
to roofing, I accept your explanation and stand humbly corrected.

P.S. Can you answer the original question I asked? Do most roofers
install the starter course incorrectly as shown in my shed plans (tabs
up with no regard to the placement of the adhesive strip) and
commented on at this site?


My bad, I'm sorry I didn't catch that.

I've torn off many jobs, and have noticed how they were installed. I can't
say "most" install them incorrectly, and honestly couldn't even estimate
how many are done incorrectly. There are many, which do install a full
shingle, which is incorrect.

In all honesty, I don't know how "Brad" estimates 95% of roofers install
them incorrect. All professional roofers, know how to install correctly. If
they're not doing it correctly, they are either lazy or not a professional.

Just because someone puts on a roof or a dozen roofs, doesn't make them a
roofer. Anymore than me flinging a paint brush, makes me a painter.

In article ,
"Mike" wrote:

Anymore than me flinging a paint brush, makes me a painter.

Apparently you're not familiar with Jackson Pollock.

dpb wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

-snip-
I'm just curious if stats like the ones mentioned at the following
site are accurate. Is it true that 90 - 95% of roofers do it wrong -
placing the adhesive strip too high up on the starter course?

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-1...question-1.htm


I guess there are 4 of us who do it right, now.g I argued for a
minute with my brothers-in-law as they started to re-roof their house.
But they've 'been in the business'[construction] all their lives, and
I haven't, so I just asked if they could see the difference in results
and let them go ahead and do it wrong.

Just 'cuz they're "in da' bizness" probably means they've got even
higher chance of doing it wrong than the DIY'er because the time to trim
the tabs is directly bottom-line $$ instead of just a few extra minutes.

Of course, the manufacturers all make starter shingles specifically for
the purpose if they would simply go to the trouble to use them...

--
Or walk along with a caulking gun and put a couple dabs of roofing
cement in the 'correct' spot on each upside down shingle before the the
next course is laid over it?

I've seen untrimmed upside-down starter courses used for 40-odd years,
and never noticed any big tendency for the bottom row of shingles to
flap in the breeze. I'm no fluidics expert, but I think it has something
to do with the angle of attack of the incoming wind. With no roof
downhill from it, the air currents aren't parallel to the roof surface.
If you are talking a force-5 hurricane, the sticky spots will not make
much difference. Asphalt shingles were around a long time before they
added those.

--
aem sends...

On Aug 27, 7:21*pm, aemeijers wrote:
dpb wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:

-snip-
I'm just curious if stats like the ones mentioned at the following
site are accurate. Is it true that 90 - 95% of roofers do it wrong -
placing the adhesive strip too high up on the starter course?

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-1...shingle-questi....

I guess there are 4 of us who do it right, now.g * * I argued for a
minute with my brothers-in-law as they started to re-roof their house.
But they've 'been in the business'[construction] all their lives, and
I haven't, so I just asked if they could see the difference in results
and let them go ahead and do it wrong.

Just 'cuz they're "in da' bizness" probably means they've got even
higher chance of doing it wrong than the DIY'er because the time to trim
the tabs is directly bottom-line $$ instead of just a few extra minutes..

Of course, the manufacturers all make starter shingles specifically for
the purpose if they would simply go to the trouble to use them...

--

Or walk along with a caulking gun and put a couple dabs of roofing
cement in the 'correct' spot on each upside down shingle before the the
next course is laid over it?

I've seen untrimmed upside-down starter courses used for 40-odd years,
and never noticed any big tendency for the bottom row of shingles to
flap in the breeze. I'm no fluidics expert, but I think it has something
to do with the angle of attack of the incoming wind. With no roof
downhill from it, the air currents aren't parallel to the roof surface.
* If you are talking a force-5 hurricane, the sticky spots will not make
much difference. Asphalt shingles were around a long time before they
added those.

--
aem sends...

Or walk along with a caulking gun...

To quote Mike from an earlier post "That is really inefficient."

If Mike felt that switching from nailing to cutting was a waste of
time, just imagine how he'll feel about having to switch to/reload/
carry around a caulking gun. g

On Aug 26, 10:39*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I put the roof on my half-price shed kit last yesterday and I noticed
that the roofing instructions in the plans were wrong. I did a little
internet research and found some indications that a lot of
instructions either don't mention one of the key points or show the
same error as my shed plans.

My shed instructions say to install the starter course of shingles
with the tabs facing up. This puts the adhesive strip mid way up the
first course, with nothing to hold down the tabs of the first course.

I've found instructions on the web that either don't say anything
about cutting the tabs off or if they do, they don't mention the fact
that the adhesive strip should be placed at the bottom, near the eave.

I'm just curious if stats like the ones mentioned at the following
site are accurate. Is it true that 90 - 95% of roofers do it wrong -
placing the adhesive strip too high up on the starter course?

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-1...shingle-questi...

When my roof was replaced they ran a bead of roofing cement down the
starter row. They gave me a great install on the roof. I cooked the
BBQ and kept gallons of iced tea made for them and put the stereo
outside. Treat your roofers right. I met the guys that did my roof in
NC a few years later in NY. They were staying in the same Holiday Inn
I was. They had a contract to roof the Carrier Building. Small World.

Jimmie

On Aug 27, 9:43*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
On Aug 26, 10:39*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:



I put the roof on my half-price shed kit last yesterday and I noticed
that the roofing instructions in the plans were wrong. I did a little
internet research and found some indications that a lot of
instructions either don't mention one of the key points or show the
same error as my shed plans.

My shed instructions say to install the starter course of shingles
with the tabs facing up. This puts the adhesive strip mid way up the
first course, with nothing to hold down the tabs of the first course.

I've found instructions on the web that either don't say anything
about cutting the tabs off or if they do, they don't mention the fact
that the adhesive strip should be placed at the bottom, near the eave.

I'm just curious if stats like the ones mentioned at the following
site are accurate. Is it true that 90 - 95% of roofers do it wrong -
placing the adhesive strip too high up on the starter course?

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-1...shingle-questi...

When my roof was replaced they ran a bead of roofing *cement down the
starter row. They gave me a great install on the roof. I cooked the
BBQ and kept gallons of iced tea made for them and put the stereo
outside. Treat your roofers right. I met the guys that did my roof in
NC a few years later in NY. They were staying in the same Holiday Inn
I was. They had a contract to roof the Carrier Building. Small World.

Jimmie

When my roof was replaced they ran a bead of roofing cement down
the starter row.

Why?

DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Aug 27, 7:21 pm, aemeijers wrote:
dpb wrote:
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote:
-snip-
I'm just curious if stats like the ones mentioned at the following
site are accurate. Is it true that 90 - 95% of roofers do it wrong -
placing the adhesive strip too high up on the starter course?
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-1...shingle-questi...
I guess there are 4 of us who do it right, now.g I argued for a
minute with my brothers-in-law as they started to re-roof their house.
But they've 'been in the business'[construction] all their lives, and
I haven't, so I just asked if they could see the difference in results
and let them go ahead and do it wrong.
Just 'cuz they're "in da' bizness" probably means they've got even
higher chance of doing it wrong than the DIY'er because the time to trim
the tabs is directly bottom-line $$ instead of just a few extra minutes.
Of course, the manufacturers all make starter shingles specifically for
the purpose if they would simply go to the trouble to use them...
--
Or walk along with a caulking gun and put a couple dabs of roofing
cement in the 'correct' spot on each upside down shingle before the the
next course is laid over it?

I've seen untrimmed upside-down starter courses used for 40-odd years,
and never noticed any big tendency for the bottom row of shingles to
flap in the breeze. I'm no fluidics expert, but I think it has something
to do with the angle of attack of the incoming wind. With no roof
downhill from it, the air currents aren't parallel to the roof surface.
If you are talking a force-5 hurricane, the sticky spots will not make
much difference. Asphalt shingles were around a long time before they
added those.

--
aem sends...

Or walk along with a caulking gun...

To quote Mike from an earlier post "That is really inefficient."

If Mike felt that switching from nailing to cutting was a waste of
time, just imagine how he'll feel about having to switch to/reload/
carry around a caulking gun. g

I was thinking of that as more of a chore for the gofer kid I see on
most roofing crews around here, who humps armloads of shingles to the
guys doing the placing and nailing. Even with roof delivery, there is a
lot of carrying going on. (and on residential, you can't set a whole
skid in one spot anyway...)

--
aem sends...

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...

Or walk along with a caulking gun...

To quote Mike from an earlier post "That is really inefficient."

If Mike felt that switching from nailing to cutting was a waste of
time, just imagine how he'll feel about having to switch to/reload/
carry around a caulking gun. g

LOL ...... I'm sure for a person roofing a place once every blue moon, the
efficiency doesn't come into play.

I sold my business to a younger guy, as a going business. I stayed on at
his request, as a foreman. He operates 5, 3 man crews, and has a support
staff of 4. It's actually pretty large, for a roofing company in my area.
At times there will be 2 crews of 3 working a job, if the job is large
enough where people don't get in each others way. He's in business to make
money, and pays even the grunt help very well along with benefits. He
couldn't do what he does in the way of pay & benefits, if the crews didn't
operate at peak efficiency. I have to tell ya, I look up to this younger
person, as a very wise business man. My business was on a much smaller
scale, with a total of 4 people.

On Aug 26, 10:39*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
I put the roof on my half-price shed kit last yesterday and I noticed
that the roofing instructions in the plans were wrong. I did a little
internet research and found some indications that a lot of
instructions either don't mention one of the key points or show the
same error as my shed plans.

My shed instructions say to install the starter course of shingles
with the tabs facing up. This puts the adhesive strip mid way up the
first course, with nothing to hold down the tabs of the first course.

I've found instructions on the web that either don't say anything
about cutting the tabs off or if they do, they don't mention the fact
that the adhesive strip should be placed at the bottom, near the eave.

I'm just curious if stats like the ones mentioned at the following
site are accurate. Is it true that 90 - 95% of roofers do it wrong -
placing the adhesive strip too high up on the starter course?

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Roofing-1...shingle-questi...

I have seen roofers install most things on a roof incorrectly at one
time or another, so the starter strip is no surprise. What does
surprise me is that no one has mentioned starter shingle rolls. One
roll is ~33' long and has the adhesive in the right place. Much
faster than cutting off tabs or dealing with individual starter
shingles.

R

"RicodJour" wrote in message
...


I have seen roofers install most things on a roof incorrectly at one
time or another, so the starter strip is no surprise. What does
surprise me is that no one has mentioned starter shingle rolls. One
roll is ~33' long and has the adhesive in the right place. Much
faster than cutting off tabs or dealing with individual starter
shingles.

Now there's a product I haven't seen in these parts, for at least 5 years.
Not one of the 4 suppliers my boss deals with, carries it anymore.

I remember when just about everyone decided to jump on the bandwagon in the
manufacturing of this.

Did you ever use it?

Here are some of the takes from the guys at my employers. We had a meeting
way back, when they wanted the crews to try this rolled starter out.

* Extremely awkward to use, you need 2 guys to install it, when using on a
steep slope application.

* Manufacturers even recommend to cut into 18' lengths, lay out flat, at
above 50 degrees, b/4 installation. What happens if you don't have 50
degrees? Lay it out b/4 installing? This is almost like watching paint dry.

* Watch for cracking when using in cool/cold weather.

* Cost factor, you get/got 33 ft, compared to 48/51 ft of a starter strip
bundle. The 33 ft is roughly 20% greater per package to start with, and you
get approx. 30% less material.

* If attempting to install by self, using a roof hatchet hand nailing, good
luck trying to hold the roll so it doesn't fall off the roof, while you
have several nails in one hand, roof hatchet in the other hand. You need a
3 hand. I never got to give it a try with a coil nailer, that might've have
been more fun.

* It's like trying to install shingles, which have been draped over the
peak. You must pull it taunt at all times, in an attempt to get the waves
out.

* Some have/had a peel & stick, so you do not have to use fasteners. Cost
inefficiency out the ying yang, because they charge more.

* When you get to the end of the roll, you might as well cut it off & toss
it, they wrap the rolls so tight.

* B/4 you get your first course of shingles across the run, you have to see
where the end of the roll fell. Otherwise, you might end up with the seam
of shingle, falling on top of or near the seam of the rolled starter. Of
course you can use a hook blade to cut it, because you won't be able to cut
it from the back side with a straight knife. You can run the straight blade
across the granual surface, might as well toss the blade because now you've
dulled it.

I'm sure I left other stuff out, kinda got the CRS going on.

Other than that, it probably is an ok product. 8-)

On Aug 28, 10:46*pm, "Mike" wrote:
"RicodJour" wrote in message

I have seen roofers install most things on a roof incorrectly at one
time or another, so the starter strip is no surprise. *What does
surprise me is that no one has mentioned starter shingle rolls. *One
roll is ~33' long and has the adhesive in the right place. *Much
faster than cutting off tabs or dealing with individual starter
shingles.

Now there's a product I haven't seen in these parts, for at least 5 years..
Not one of the 4 suppliers my boss deals with, carries it anymore.

I remember when just about everyone decided to jump on the bandwagon in the
manufacturing of this.

Did you ever use it?

Them? Yes.

Here are some of the takes from the guys at my employers. We had a meeting
way back, when they wanted the crews to try this rolled starter out.

* Extremely awkward to use, you need 2 guys to install it, when using on a
steep slope application.

Or one guy who's tied off and not afraid of heights.

* Manufacturers even recommend to cut into 18' lengths, lay out flat, at
above 50 degrees, b/4 installation. What happens if you don't have 50
degrees? Lay it out b/4 installing? This is almost like watching paint dry.

Like most roofing products that are temperature sensitive, you keep
them in a warmer area until you need them. Granted this is not always
possible. Then again roofing isn't always possible - sometimes it
rains or snows or the wind blows really hard.

* Watch for cracking when using in cool/cold weather.

Like a fair bit of roofing materials.

* Cost factor, you get/got 33 ft, compared to 48/51 ft of a starter strip
bundle. The 33 ft is roughly 20% greater per package to start with, and you
get approx. 30% less material.

* If attempting to install by self, using a roof hatchet hand nailing, good
luck trying to hold the roll so it doesn't fall off the roof, while you
have several nails in one hand, roof hatchet in the other hand. You need a
3 hand. I never got to give it a try with a coil nailer, that might've have
been more fun.

Or use the self-adhesive stuff.

* It's like trying to install shingles, which have been draped over the
peak. You must pull it taunt at all times, in an attempt to get the waves
out.

I, for one, never taunt my roof - not a wise thing to do when it's
hanging over your head like that.

* Some have/had a peel & stick, so you do not have to use fasteners. Cost
inefficiency out the ying yang, because they charge more.

You make it sound like the roll stuff is ridiculously priced. An
average roof would require about $40 of roll starter.

* When you get to the end of the roll, you might as well cut it off & toss
it, they wrap the rolls so tight.

I guess your options are limited in Nome with that last little
bit.

* B/4 you get your first course of shingles across the run, you have to see
where the end of the roll fell. Otherwise, you might end up with the seam
of shingle, falling on top of or near the seam of the rolled starter. Of
course you can use a hook blade to cut it, because you won't be able to cut
it from the back side with a straight knife. You can run the straight blade
across the granual surface, might as well toss the blade because now you've
dulled it.

A roofer with a hook blade - who woulda thunk it? You do seem to have
a bone to pick with the stuff to quibble about such things. I figure
anyone who is up on a roof can figure out how to offset seams -
otherwise they should be on the phone and not on the roof.

I'm sure I left other stuff out, kinda got the CRS going on.

Other than that, it probably is an ok product. *8-)

Yep. It's not a panacea, but it's another product in the roof edge
arsenal. Like I said, I was just surprised that no one had mentioned
it while discussing the starter strip options.

R